Obama's Health Care Town Hall
Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Obama says health care critics use 'scare tactics'
http://www.comcast.net/ar....Overhaul/

"For all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we do nothing,"

Hmm, "Do nothing and it will get worse!"... now where have I heard that one before?





Seems to me like we shouldn't do anything. Doing something just makes it worse.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
I wonder what the world would look like if all of the energy that's been put into bitching about everything President Obama does were to be redirected toward something constructive.

Can that be plotted somewhere on Rick/Kyle's graph?

We get it. You don't like President Obama. Next.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
No, I like President Obama Brian. I just don't like his "Leadership" of our Country.

We were told the same crap with the "Stimulus" package - aka "Do nothing and it will only get worse" - and unemployment numbers continue to rise prompting the Vice President to say they "Misread the economy" among other things.

Now it's the same with health care. We must do something or it will only get worse. Sorry but this health care plan is not the way to go and needs to be killed.

Look I'm all for fixing our health care system, it's not great but it's not as bad as some say it is. This rush to "Pass Something Now" is scary. We need to scale back, seriously look at the issue and then come up with a plan and not rush to cram anything down the American People's throats.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (8/11/2009)]
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
You do much better when you phrase things like your last post, Kyle.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4454) 12 years ago
My fingers are crossed that a heroin addict stabs you.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (8/11/2009)]
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Sorry Kyle, but the economy was a direct result of your man Bush..Bush was handed a good balanced budget by Clinton and quickly proceeded to screw up and spend money like a drunken sailor...He doubled the national debt...Or do you forget last falls "emergency" passing of the huge bill to save the banks, etc...??
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4454) 12 years ago
With a dirty needle.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
This is as good as I can do, Buck:

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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
No I didn't Howdy and that's what has me concerned with this health care bill.

Yes I'm fully aware that Obama inherited a bad economy. However in his rush to "Do Something" he and the rest of those in Congress made it far worse and the Veep's own words attest to that fact.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Since Obama has been in office barely a few months, I think it is silly for you to be condemning his administration now...You never even gave him a chance...Even I didn't start criticizing Bush until the later years of his administration...Since you started the critique so early no one will ever take you seriously....You just hate the man..Pure and simple..
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Kyle - what was your opinion of the "Do Something NOW!" sentiment that ran rampant after 9/11? Remember the PATRIOT Act?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4454) 12 years ago
Noooooo howdy, he doesn't just hate Obama - he hates all those n******.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Real economists like Paul Krugman feel differently... but I'm sure Kyle knows better.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
To be perfectly honest Brian, I don't really remember. I think I was just numb and angry from what was going on and that's what I would caution against here - a rush to do something based on emotion.

I would argue that we need to take step back, seriously look at the problem and figure out the best solution that would work for what the bill would do.

Buck, I'm not even going to dignify your last comment.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (8/11/2009)]
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17660) 12 years ago
Yes I'm fully aware that Obama inherited a bad economy. However in his rush to "Do Something" he and the rest of those in Congress made it far worse and the Veep's own words attest to that fact.

You are using one statistic....the unemployment rate....to make that statement. And that in itself is probably wrong. Most economists would agree that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has provided a stabilizing influence on the economy, and that without it, our economic colleapse would have been far worse.

Just think of <shudder> the state our economy would be in if McCain-Palin were running the show?
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Is anyone going to the town hall with Obama in Montana??? I would have loved to go but unfortunately health issues keep me from going...
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi...:H.R.3200:


Here is the actual bill...HR 3200...I tried to read it but my eyes kept crossing...maybe some of you can do better...
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
You are using one statistic....the unemployment rate....to make that statement.

That's pretty funny coming from the people who invented the phrase "jobless recovery" only 7 years ago or so.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Economics is hard, isn't it?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17660) 12 years ago
It certainly seems to be one of Rick's more difficult subjects to understand, Bridgier.

[This message has been edited by Gunnar Emilsson (8/11/2009)]
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17660) 12 years ago
And, yes, howdy, my mother is going to that meeting.....she will be raising the banner for the single payer plan.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17660) 12 years ago
I suspect Rick's version of a Health Care Bill would be....

"Tort Reform! Tort Reform!"

Really, there is no reason to carry on a dialog with you wingnuts anymore concerning health care reform....you are so divorced from reality, and married to your own ideology....common sense fails to make any case with you.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
There was an advanced team for Obama's trip west in helicopters that refueled here in Gillette yesterday. Too bad Obama tend to go to only blue counties and probably doesn't have the courage to land here in Campbell County. We could have a beer.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
OH great Gunner, I am so glad about the single payer issue your mom is raising...I am for it also...Hope it gets his attention...Single payer is getting more and more popular as an option I think, at least in the polls I have seen...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Here is some enlightening information about the healthcare proposal. We need a serious discussion about how we are going to pay for this program. It make no sense to sell bonds to China or print money to fund this coming disaster.

It would be helpful if the President and the CBO could get on the same page about the impact of the program. And Obama's straw-dog argument about the cost of doing nothing isn't helpful either. No one is proposing not doing anything. We simply can't afford this program in its current form.

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=332
"Preliminary Analysis of the House Democrats' Health Reform Proposal

Yesterday CBO released a preliminary analysis, conducted with the staff of the Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT), of H.R. 3200, the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009, as introduced by several House committees on July 14. Earlier this week, CBO released a preliminary report on the health insurance coverage provisions of the bill; this latest report added analysis of the other provisions.

According to CBO's and JCT's assessment, enacting H.R. 3200 would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficit of $239 billion over the 2010-2019 period. That estimate reflects a projected 10-year cost of the bill's insurance coverage provisions of $1,042 billion, partly offset by net spending changes that CBO estimates would save $219 billion over the same period, and by revenue provisions that JCT estimates would increase federal revenues by about $583 billion over those 10 years.

By the end of the 10-year period, in 2019, the coverage provisions would add $202 billion to the federal deficit, CBO and JCT estimate. That increase would be partially offset by net cost savings of $50 billion and additional revenues of $86 billion, resulting in a net increase in the deficit of an estimated $65 billion.

The figures released yesterday do not represent a complete cost estimate for the legislation. In particular, the estimated impact of the provisions related to health insurance coverage is based on specifications provided by the committee staff, rather than on a detailed analysis of the legislative language. (The estimates for other spending provisions reflect the specific legislative language. JCT has separately published its estimates of the effects of revenue provisions contained in H.R. 3200.) In addition, the figures do not include certain costs that the government would incur to administer the proposed changes and the impact of the bill's provisions on other federal programs, and they do not reflect any modifications or amendments made after the bill was introduced. Nevertheless, this analysis reflects the major net budgetary effects of H.R. 3200."

Here is some more information from the CBO.


http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc...hr3200.pdf

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (8/11/2009)]
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1886) 12 years ago
I agree Howdy.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
It certainly seems to be one of Rick's more difficult subjects to understand, Bridgier.

I know, it's so hard.

Republican in office.... employment annointed the king of all statistics, the one before which all other numbers must bow. GDP, inflation... irrelevant. Those employment numbers better come in above forecast.

Democrat in office.... employment dismissed as a trivial worthless lagging indicator, largely irrelevant to any serious economic measurement or discussion. Whether jobs predictions are met or not... doesn't matter. Faith is what matters.

The complexity of it all is beyond me.

Good news though. The enemies of the state over at the Congressional Budget Office have finally been reported for their fishy non-Obama compliant accounting.

http://keithhennessey.com...2Cfalse%5D
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
There was an advanced team for Obama's trip west in helicopters that refueled here in Gillette yesterday. Too bad Obama tend to go to only blue counties and probably doesn't have the courage to land here in Campbell County.

He's probably afraid of nutcases attacking him in D-9 bulldozers.

When D-9s are outlawed, only outlaws will have D-9s.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 12 years ago
Rickenhawk:

Yeah, kind of like this:

Republican in office: Deficits don't matter.

Democrat in office: That socialist is running up big deficits!!!!

You suck at the Internet, Rickenhawk!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Brian, your ignorance is showing again. D-9's are so 1990's. We much prefer the D-11 these days.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Brian, your ignorance is showing again. D-9's are so 1990's. We much prefer the D-11 these days.

And you're showing yours. No one ever went on a rampage through Gillette in a D-11. But it HAS happened in a D-9 (hence, the bumper sticker quote I provided). Guess you're not up to snuff on your Campbell County history.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Rickenhawk:

Yeah, kind of like this:

Republican in office: Deficits don't matter.

Democrat in office: That socialist is running up big deficits!!!!


Bob - Let me offer a quick primer for you:

Deficits for bombs? Good!

Deficits for people? Bad!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
I am well aware of the incident. IF it were to happen today, the individual would likely be driving a D-11, as there are not that many D-9's around.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Sounds like you've got this pretty well thought out, Richard. Anything you care to confess?

For anyone who's curious: http://news.google.com/ne...234,250957

Of course, I'd be a little bit more concerned if a D-7 went on a killing spree. It's got disruptor cannons and photon torpedoes, after all:



[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (8/12/2009)]
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
Come on Bob. There are deficits, and then there are Deficits.



Obama's 'best' year, even by his own budget numbers will be worse than Bush's 'worst' year.

Then again, this isn't a constitutional monarchy. Who's holding Congress (the people who spend the money) accountable?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 12 years ago
Wahhh, Rickenhawk!!!!

Your boys mucked everything up, so your boys are not in power.

WAHHHHHH!

[This message has been edited by Bob L. (8/12/2009)]
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 12 years ago
CONTEST: Pick out Rickenhawk in this picture.









HINT: Look for the doll.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
I don't know, those clothes look more like your vintage.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Rick's on the right, in the back. You can't see the Bronco's jacket, but it's there.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
To the right of Santorum? Heh.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Unfortunate irony, I know.

Truly frightening, but not at all inaccurate.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
If you get santorum on you clothes, does that come out with a stain remover?
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
The stain may come out, but the stank will linger. Perpetually.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 12 years ago
Bridgier:

Dan Savage would be proud.
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Posted by Donna Kingsley Coffeen (+403) 12 years ago
I actually had a person ask today why THEY should have to pay for everyone else's use of the library. She thinks everyone should buy their own books and if they cannot then they don't deserve to read and should not even be taught to read as it is a waste of her taxpayer money. I am hoping the conversation was tongue in cheek, but since she was a store clerk I have no idea if she was serious or not.
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1290) 12 years ago



Daughter of the head of an Obama group? Set up crowd?....not at all.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
At the risk of you not liking me anymore, Chuck, I have to ask you this:

Did President Obama's predecessor NEVER have a set-up crowd? Please.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Check out the sign in the very middle.



Also, the guy in the Stars and Bars on the left is a real winner.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Not to start a racial discussion here but the "Stars & Bars" to me is as much a part of the history of the United States as the Stars & Stripes is.

Incidentally Brian, is that you in the green & white striped shirt

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (8/12/2009)]
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
One thing that I find repugnant about demonstrations (for both sides) is when people pimp their children out for the cameras. These kids are more than likely way to young to understand why their parents are out there shouting and screaming.

The ones who bring babies in strollers are even worse.

Protest yourself, leave the kids at home.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Not to start a racial discussion here but the "Stars & Bars" to me is as much a part of the history of the United States as the Stars & Stripes is.

True, regrettably so (on a side note, have you ever noticed the basic level of education for your average Stars & Bars garb wearer? I'm sure history is just one of the subjects where they're not particularly well-versed).

What is also true (and far less regrettable) is that they lost. Permanently. Personally, I'd like to see one of the consequences of that defeat being the banishment of the Confederate battle flag, but oh well. Morans need clothes too, I suppose.

Incidentally Brian, is that you in the green & white striped shirt

Nope. No Sox cap.
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Posted by Amoo Daboo Dabutsu (+115) 12 years ago
I would think we could quite talking about GWB and quite comparing the new improved transparent government of Barack Obama with that of GWB's.

The cute little girl was an obvious plant, I can't believe the administration thought they could pull it off without being found out. There are idiots on both side of the streets in these crowds, but there is also a lot of concerned, scared people on both sides that want answers.....real answers. I admire some of the congress people for holding these meetings, I think a full 60% of all members of congress have decided NOT to have these town hall meetings..Cowards!

I'm thinking we will end up with a few no impact changes just for the sake of change and nothing will be different. I wish the current administration would have gone about this in a less hurried more open way, we would be much better off at this point in the game.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Banishment from Capitol buildings I can see, but again this is a part of American history (and mine to be specific) and I think that to sweep it away like it never happened is not a good thing. It helps foster discussion (good & bad) and makes for a great educational tool.

Personally I think the Stars & Bars stand for more than just a symbol of Rednecks & bigots.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Personally I think the Stars & Bars stand for more than just a symbol of Rednecks & bigots.

I would agree with you ... if I ever saw someone who wasn't a redneck and/or bigot displaying one.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Sadly Brian, much like with the swastika and other symbols, a few a$$holes corrupted & perverted to suit their own ends.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Sadly Brian, much like with the swastika and other symbols, a few a$$holes corrupted & perverted to suit their own ends.

I disagree. The Stars & Bars (and the Confederacy it represents) isn't something that's been corrupted and perverted. It's the antithesis of the United States and has been since its inception.

People have the right to wear the Confederate flag or display it how they see fit. I have the right to call those people idiots.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Coming from a lover of history I look at the S&B more as a historical artifact than anything else.

Not all who wear it are idiots Brian, though more than a few are.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6113) 12 years ago
Not all who wear it are idiots Brian, though more than a few are.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Oh, I would love to hear what the Stars and Bars represent beyond slavery, sedition and treason...
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Oh, I would love to hear what the Stars and Bars represent beyond slavery, sedition and treason...

Oh I dunno Bridgier, maybe American history, lives of soldiers etc might be a few.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
http://patterico.com/2009...l-meeting/

Here's another great one, Chuck. She's not a doctor, but she plays one at Democrat town hall meetings. (oh, and she was an Obama delegate)

We have much to learn from our astroturf masters.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 12 years ago
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
You're begging the question there Kyle, and avoiding mine.

"American History" - well, there's the sedition part... "lives of soldiers"... and there's the treason

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (8/13/2009)]
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
I answered your question Bridgier.
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1886) 12 years ago
So a few @ssholes corrupted the swastika, Kyle? I guess that ruins it for you.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
Look up the history of the Swastika Bob.

But in case you don't want to do the research here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Actually... no you didn't. You threw out a bunch of words that may make sense to you, but just because YOU know what you mean when you say those things, doesn't mean I know what you mean - know what I mean?

In other words, please humor me and pretend that your context and subsequent assumptions aren't self-evident.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3751) 12 years ago
"American History" - well, there's the sedition part... "lives of soldiers"... and there's the treason

That's one of the benefits of living in the 21st Century isn't it Bridgier? Hindsight is always 20-20. You can go down the road of "It only stands for bigotry" all you want to but you need to look at a few facts first.

Back then blacks weren't thought of as anything more than property and people thought of their home State first and the United States as a whole second. As a result Bridgier most of those who fought for the Confederacy were fighting for their home State.

Was slavery at its heart? Sure it was but the fact remains that most of the soldiers themselves didn't own slaves. The Southern Aristocracy made up the majority of slave holders.

Was what they were fighting for wrong? Absolutely. We can look back and say that with certainty.

However back then the issue was a little more clouded.

Like it or not the Stars & Bars/ CSA is as much a part of American History as the Revolutionary War is and to try and sweep it away as some would like to do benefits nobody.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (8/13/2009)]
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
http://politics.theatlant..._leg_1.php

How not to win friends and influence people.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Fine. So what do people who wear the Confederate Battle Flag (which is different than the Stars and Bars) mean when they wear it today? I could really give a rats ass what Johny Reb thought he was fighting for, although I can sympathize with the idea that he was fighting for what he thought was the natural order of things, that natural order was horrifyingly wrong. I'm also well aware that the war of northern aggression was predicated more on economics than human rights - but what do the people who wear it today think it stood for?

At this remove, romanticizing the CSA is romanticizing sedition and economic exploitation. Oh, I know there's a lot of yammering about "state's rights" but the only rights that the states in question wanted to stand up for was the right for one person to own another. So screw them.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4454) 12 years ago
Why are we looking at the history of the swastika? I mean, it is just a symbol and really quite interesting if you look at it geometrically, but f*ck is just four letters, too.

Ooh, I have a better one - look at the origin or the word "n*gger".

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (8/13/2009)]
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