Ponder this. If I am not wrong we are knee deep in a recession brought on, in part by a large number of defaults in the housing market brought on by people getting over there heads in house payments they could not afford. So as part of the solution the Government in all their wisdom has decided to see if they can't cause the same problem in the automobile market.

As example, Joe Blow is driving a two thousand dollar vehicle that is meeting his needs, cheap to insure, cheaper to licence. Now along comes Uncle Barack and doubles the value of Joe's car, with Chrysler doubling that if Joe just trades in his old "Clunker" for a new car and 6 or 7 years of payments. Now old Joe is driving a more fuel efficient auto that is costing 10 times that of the old Clunker to insure and license, plus paying a car payment of $300.00 (if he's lucky).

Is this a good thing? I know it's a big hit and cars are selling like hot cakes, Hell I wish I could do it, but is it a good for the economy in the long haul?

Just want some input.

I tend to agree that "Cash for Clunkers" was a clunker of a program. I think it's on its death bed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...ess-autos/

I'll bet you dollars for clunkers there is a few more Billions we can scare up for a working program.

I've got an "86" Henway I'd like to trade before they are out of cash.

This program is effectively the car dealers giving the federal government a $4,500/car unsecured loan. The rules keep changing as to who is eligible for what. Given the "success" of this program just image what they will do with your prostate surgery.

Forgive my ignorance but what happens to the "clunkers"? Do they head for the scrap yard or do the dealerships just resell them like they normally would with a trade-in? I can see how it would be a shot in the arm for the auto industry but it seems like a waste to destroy all those serviceable cars and it doesn't really get them off the road if they just sell them again.

Cash for Clunkers is being put on hold......the program appears to be running (or nearly running) out of available funds. Dealers have raised concerns about large backlogs.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...ness-autos

Junked, Engines destroyed, cars scraped.

Amoo, For a fuzzy foreigner you seem to know your stuff, maybe you should meet Orby Hibee. I'll bet you two have a lot in common.

You know I would think the dealers have to save those clunkers for a while in case the rebate is rejected. I assume they let you take the new car home with the down payment amount pending, I just don't see how else they could do it. I'll just hang loose and take over payments from some poor smuck 12 months from now.

Looks like 2 more Billion to come, why quit now lets spend that stimulus money on something that is stimulating. We will worry about the ramification's latter, Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.

It's my understanding the dealers are told to replace the clunker's engine oil with a sodium silicate solution and run the engine until it is destroyed.

If you find it much harder to buy a used engine or transmission for your "clunker" (the one you plan to keep), that could be part of the reason.

Seems to me that replacing a bunch of cars on the road with new cars is not really environmentally friendly - even if they get better mileage. How much energy is being consumed to manufacture and transport those cars to their sales locations? How many month (or probably years) of driving at 4-10 miles a gallon will it take to make up for the massive amount of energy spent to get that new car to you, not to mention the energy expended to destroy/recycle the old one? This is before we even get to the real problems discussed in earlier posts, about the personal finance problems this will create, in all likelihood, for many consumers. Seems like just another bailout for the auto industry - and guess who wants to increase funds for the program - Michigan's delegation. And it doesn't even require the buyer to buy an American made car.

Hard to find a geniune American made car anymore..Most of them have major components made overseas...

My head is swimming....So heres my dilemma.....My husband and I drove our 1990 Buick Regal out to Rochester, Mn....It got us there and back, we got decent enough gas mileage....ok....but, we are going to have to make many more trips and our tranny is going, besides it's not that comfortable for Jim....so we need a "new" car....Not real great credit, and can afford about a $1500.00 down payment. We do not want to trade in the Buick as we could use a 2nd car. What to do? Any suggestions? We would really like one of those smaller suv's thats a little taller that would be roomier and easier for Jim to get in and out of. What say you?

[This message has been edited by T Brown (7/31/2009)]

[This message has been edited by T Brown (7/31/2009)]

Why not try calling around to various banks and inquire about their repo's...who knows, they might have something that fits the bill...

JCF - I would bet money that you are right on the money about C02 emissions in buying a new car vs. driving an old one.

The clunkers are to be crushed ASAP. If it is inoperable, the dealer will be fined.

"Looks like 2 more Billion to come, why quit now lets spend that stimulus money on something that is stimulating. We will worry about the ramification's latter, Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead."

Why not give everyone $4500 of their taxes back so they can spending on what they need. Why limited it to trading your 69 plymouth grand fury with the 383 engine in for a puddle-jumper with a Briggs and Stratton engine?

T Brown,

Seriously when will that 1990 Buick be worth $7,000 t0 $9,000 again? Go to Deluxe Motors with the Buick and Your $1500 cash and trade that baby in on a $20,000 Chrysler product, put the balance on 60 month's of payments and drive trouble free for the next 5 years.

God knows you've got enough to worry about other than the transmission {a $2000 repair min.) No car dealer worth his salt would let you sip away without a car. You may pay a few more points on the financing because of credit but with almost half down it shouldn't be a problem.

I don't feel everyone with a clunker should be buying a new car, far from it, but you sound like a good candidate to me.

PS Not a $35,000 car but a $20,000 car, get it!!

Good Luck, and don't procrastinate they are going fast.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (7/31/2009)]

I'm like the king of clunker candidates, but noooooo - my car (a definite clunker) does not qualify because of its supposed fuel economy. Bunch a bullsh*t. I wanna gut punch Obama.

What's the fuel mileage needed to qualify???

Less than 18 mpg combined between city/highway.

There is a list of qualifying vehicles, if you own an economy car, count yourself screwed.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (7/31/2009)]

Under 18 MPG combined city and highway. You too Howdy, get a pretty one!

Imagine, the Govenment just realized that people like free sh*t. Can't wait for the new hip rush right after Obamacare hits the street.

I bought my new Toyota Yaris last year, so that makes me wish I had waited a year...Oh well....I still love my 40 MPG that we have been consistantly getting..The salesman swore up and down we would get 40 and I didn't believe him...I do now...

Is it under 18 mpg or under 19 mpg? My 10 year old car still gets 30 mpg in the city!

Count yourself screwed, Wendy.

Thanks Chuck....I'll go check it out...I guess its definately worth a shot.

Here is a place to check your cars eligibility...

http://www.toyota.com/cas...p210283387

"Is it under 18 mpg or under 19 mpg? My 10 year old car still gets 30 mpg in the city!"

Depends on your W2 filing status. :ducking:

We just took advantage of the Cash for Clunkers by turning in a 1992 GMC Sierra 2WD that was on its last legs. We bought a KIA for $11,000 and it was easy and unloaded a junker that we didn't know what to do with. They do not crush the vehicle. They have to pour a solution in that will cause the engine to seize and then they can scrap the rest of the vehicle. The dealerships get $50 per car and any scrap money they get, they have to return to the government. The upside for us is that we will now get better gas mileage and emissions will be greatly improved as well. I am just glad that I am getting to benefit from some of the stimulus money directly since I will be paying for it for a long time to come. Anyway, the Cash for Clunkers was a great way to get a small compact car for us and get rid of the Junker of a Clunker.

I just checked my 1990 Buick Regal and it does NOT qualify. It gets 20 mpg. what a crappy criteria. I don't think 20 MPG is all that great when you compare it to 40 MPG !?!?!?!?!?!? So I guess my only option is to go to the "new" used car lots...the buy here/pay here ones.

[This message has been edited by T Brown (7/31/2009)]

Oh no, I am so sorry to hear that...try calling the repo stuff at the local banks as well...Good luck....

Sorry to hear that I'll bet it's been awhile since you got 20 MPG in that car.

Actually we got 25.2 MPG when we went to Minneesota...We lucked out I guess...But we also put a bunch of $$$ into it with new tires, new AC compressor and a tune up. It's not a bad car, its just getting old and its nickle and diming us to death!!!

I am just not sure if this program will be worth all it is costing the tax payers....Right now, the jury is out I suppose...Glad to hear someone is getting to use it tho...

T Brown: If you really want to keep the Buick, have you considered taking the $1,500 you've saved for a down payment and using a portion of it to buy a qualifying junker from a private party here in Miles City. There are several listed in these classifieds. You could then trade that vehicle in toward a new one for the $4,500 credit.

You have to own the title for a year, they thought of that when they were busy screwing me.

Now I need to convince someone with a certified clunker to take my car, trade in their car, and sell me the title on the new car.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (8/1/2009)]

You have to provide the registration and insurance documents that show it has been licensed and insured for at least a year. I am not sure that it can be under someone else's name. Anyway, I gave them my title, registration and insurance bill with receipts.

Yes sir, they have covered all the bases. That is probally a good thing except for poor old Buck who needs a new truck.

...and poor ol' Terry that needs a new car!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/wa...DORGqcerBM

Here:

Oh, and I think this year's demolition derby at the Eastern Montana Fair should be billed as: "Crash Your Clunkers"

And much, much safer seeing as none of the vehicles run anymore. Maybe the drivers could just sit in side and scream things like CRASH, CRUNCH, SMASH, BANG.... you know the kind of things you used to see in a batman and robin fight on TV.

But really I saw vehicles being traded in that look like good outfits to me, and I'm sure they had lots of use left in them. I'm afraid this program just gave a bunch of money to a group of people that for the most part didn't really need the help. But Damn it, it was a big hit.

T Brown: the advice to check out the repos was great...don't forget to check out the credit unions as well...and check out other towns too...might have just the vehicle for you.

True....I found a few lenders that will actually work with me and a few places in Billings to try. I really wanted to support Miles City dealerships, but they are unwilling to help someone out, so I'll just go elsewhere. My money is good in Billings, but not Miles City...what a shame.

Just remember that interest rates are usually negotiable...Don't take their first offer.....They want to sell that car more than they want a higher interest rate usually......name of the game is debate, debate, debate....I have gotten up and walked out the door only to have them call me a few minutes later on my cell phone..Don't be afraid to use your feet if necessary..Good luck kiddo..You deserve it...

Clearly I was wrong about this program working for all the wrong people. This is from the Billings Gazoo this morning.

"Only one of JoAnna and Herb Dawson's three cars, five pickups and SUVs, one motor home and 18 motorcycles parked at their home in the Paradise Valley qualified as a "clunker" under the federal government's trade-in program."

Crap! by the end of this recession I may be looking for something like that Cadie to live in, what a waste. If nothing else it would be a odds on favorite in Dave's demo derby.


It does my heart good to know these fine people where recipients of this government hand out.

http://www.billingsgazett...03286.html

"And the 1988 Cadillac they traded in Monday was a doozey.

The driver's seat permanently leaned 45 degrees into the backseat area,..."

Chuck, I have it on good authority that that Cadillac was onced owned by the Notorious B.I.G., Biggie Smalls.

That car should be in Carr's One of a Kind in the World Museum in Spokane.

Further in the story:

"Despite getting $3,500 for the land yacht that cost $2,000 a dozen years ago, Herb reluctantly said goodbye to the car."

Oh boy. We just paid these guys $3500 for a car that was worth $2000 12 years ago and has probably not been driven in years? Brilliant work by our federal government.

No kidding what would the "grape one" think about a deal like that. Those where fun things to do, Man I laughed until I cried.

Here's a little good news for those of you still waiting to trade. The "Hummer Truck" qualifies for purchase after you trade in your "86" Caddie, I've often found myself thinking "we sure could use a few more Hummer's on the road". If nothing else they could knock a few of those pesky battery operated things out of my way.

Seriously, it will be interesting to see if repos start going up since this program started...I look at this as a tax break for the middle class, which is something you don't see too often...I just hope it works out...I hope none of these families go out and overextend themselves...

Top 10 new vehicles purchased

Officials at the Department of Transportation provided new figures on the "Cash for Clunkers" program.

1. Toyota Corolla
2. Ford Focus FWD
3. Honda Civic
4. Toyota Prius
5. Toyota Camry
6. Hyundai Elantra
7. Ford Escape FWD
8. Dodge Caliber
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevrolet Cobalt


Source: MSNBC http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...ess-autos/

Did I mention to you guys what a worthy and productive use of tax payer money this was, I can't believe it's ending so soon only 500K new cars sold this past 4 weeks.

Thanks to all who pay taxes I went for a #8, with auto and air, damn crank windows aside I appreciate the help.

Hey, at least those won't crap out in a year.

I had an awesome experience with this program. Better fuel economy, small monthly payments, 0% financing for the duration of the loan and a reliable car. I'm gonna miss the Nissan but that Subaru sure looks nice sitting in my driveway!

Is the cash that the DEALER receives from the government for each clunker taxable income. Seems like kind of a raw deal that the dealer makes an unsecured no-interest loan the the government and then when the government finally gets the money back to the dealer, they have to pay taxes on it. How does this help the dealer?

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (8/26/2009)]

Crap....I'll probally get a 1099 from Uncle Sammy for the $4500. Got to get those tax revenues up some how.

Richard:

Of course it's taxable income to the dealer. The dealer will pay taxes on what they made on each sale.

If it was such a HORRIBLE deal for the car dealers, why did they participate? Participation wasn't mandatory. Riddle me that, wingnut.

[This message has been edited by Bob L. (8/27/2009)]

It's not taxable to the car buyer, Amoo.

Wendy, not so I'm affraid. I have heard that the buyers will be taxed on the $4500.00 rebate as if it was earned income. Might have been something to disclose before people went on a buying spree, in my tax bracket (22% last year) that rebate will cost me an extra $990 in bottom line taxes. I think it is just typical of what to expect from Washington this next several years.

I hope you can prove me wrong, I was not expecting to have to pay taxes on that rebate.

Rumors suck. Repeating them without first investigating whether or not they're true sucks worse.

http://www.cars.gov/faq

Excerpt: Is the credit subject to being taxed as income to the consumers that participate in the program?

NO. The CARS Act expressly provides that the credit is not income for the consumer.[/i]

In other news, President Obama was born in Hawaii.

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (8/28/2009)]

Thanks Mr. Wizard. Save the condescension for someone else I'm not impressed.

In the time it took you to write your previous post, you could have just Googled "cash for clunkers taxable income" and had your answer without running the risk of looking like a rube. You're the ultimate source of any condescension you perceive.

If this offends you, Amoo, rest assured that you should now know where the problem lay.

ADD:

I believe some states may consider the rebate income for STATE taxes.

Of course, the Federal government cannot tell the states what to do, right?

Of course, the Federal government cannot tell the states what to do, right?

Well, they can ... it's just that the Oathkeepers won't enforce it.

Brian, your comment about the Oathkeepers...thanks for the laugh...



[This message has been edited by howdy (8/28/2009)]

Thanks to my sister..

If my body were a car,this is the time I would be thinking about trading it in for a newer model.
I've got bumps and dents and scratches in my finish, and my paint job is getting a little dull.
But that's not the worst of it.
My headlights are out of focus, and its especially hard to see things up close.
My traction is not as graceful as it once was. I slip and slide and skid and bump into things even in the best of weather.
My whitewalls are stained with varicose veins. It takes me hours to reach my maximum speed.
But here's the worst of it-- Almost every time I sneeze,cough or laugh, either my radiator leaks or my exhaust backfires.
Cash for clunkers... Do you qualify

God. It always comes back to football, or beer.

Interesting map showing the type of car people traded (foreign or domestic) and which type they bought organized by state. Michigan really supported the big 3. The rest of the country not so much:

http://detnews.com/articl.../91106001/

This is the first time I've checked in on this thread in awhile, so I'm sorry for not saying this sooner:

Gunnar, I'm happy to say that your cartoon couldn't be more off-the-mark if it was coming from Cutler's right arm.

Or Goat-Boy's (56.9 career completion percentage), for that matter.

Wendy wrote:

God. It always comes back to football, or beer.

Yes. Yes it does.

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (11/11/2009)]

Food for thought. Each cash for clunkers sold cost us the American Taxpayers $24,000.00

That's why it's called "stimulus"....

I don't know if it cost us the American taxpayers $24,000 each...I am think maybe $4,000 each for us taxpayers, and the remainder $20,000 each was fronted to us by our Chinese overlords.

The statistcs show $24,000.00 for each of us. So in a nut shell your neighbors are driving your cars you never get to enjoy. A "stimulus" is not adding more and more debt to the taxpayer.

Mtpatriot

Maybe you should have been smart enough to participate in the program.

I think there's a mathematics FAIL somewhere in here.

Bridgier:

Have you considered the fact that you might not be a true patriot?

I'll work on breathing through my mouth.

Be careful. Bugs taste awful, I've been told.

Actually, now that I consider it a little longer, I'm starting to think that tea-party + mouthbreathing = asphyxiation. So I'll just have to practice sneering at minorities and mouthing platitudes about the Constitution instead.

Why on earth would I want to participate in a program when I am fully aware that the action will create a reaction that is not positive. For those of you who did- it was your choice to do so, but I also believe that anyone with even 1/2 a brain understands that it will have a big price to pay for all of us. Sure it temporarily stimulated the economy but what about for the future? I choose to earn what I have. Not depend on everyone elses tax dollars for support.

You're paying for my new car, MTPATRIOT.

SUCK ON THAT!!!!!!!

tea-party + mouthbreathing = asphyxiation

No, Bridgier, tea-party + mouthbreathing = tea boarding.

Bob L. you are so eloquent. It is amazing to me that people stoop to this level when they are not intelligent enough to have a debate.

Wendy's been on here to long... we've completely ruined her for civilized discourse.

mtpatriot:

I'm also unpatriotic and probably a communist too.

Bob L. You said it I didnt.

mtpatriot apparently doesn't understand sarcasm.

Bob L. Actually I thought you were the one that did not understand sarcasm.

Wendy's been on here to long... we've completely ruined her for civilized discourse.

Yes, Bridgier. Yes, you have.

Where'd you come up with that $24,000 "factoid", mtpatriot.

Can you provide the data where you are getting this 24k per car sold from please?

This says $10,000 / family. Frankly, IMO $1 is too much. During that program I bought a 2009 F 150 and payed for it myself.

http://www.factcheck.org/...ulus-bill/

I am fairly sure the data came from FIX news

[This message has been edited by Lorin Dixson (11/13/2009)]

That's for the entire stimulus bill. Cash for clunkers was a small part of that program as a whole. I would like to see actual data on the 24k a car that mtpatriot is presenting.

he got it from the same bunch of ladies that told Richard about girls in Gillette dropping like flies from "nonconservative" vaccinations.

Bob:

Ricardo made up that story, but your point is taken.

I made up what...?

Good for you. I think Ford may be the only remaining U.S. manufacturer before the next presidential election. My next vehicle will be one.

Perhaps if they'd learn to make a semi-decent car/vehicle that isn't being recalled every other year then maybe they just might not be in this mess anymore.

Until then the fleeing of people to foreign cars will continue.

Perhaps if they'd learn to make a semi-decent car/vehicle that isn't being recalled every other year then maybe they just might not be in this mess anymore.

The 24k figure is from Edmunds, and it's based on some assumptions regarding how many cars would've been sold regardless of the cash for clunkers program.

Their numbers might be a little pessimistic for the program, but then again on the other side you have the Government Motors crowd taking credit for every new car sale that happened in the US for the same period.

And the fact that as soon as C for C ended, sales collapsed even further tends to demonstrate that Edmunds was at least somewhat correct when they said that Cash for Clunkers didn't really generate many new sales... it mostly only stole them from the future (at breathtaking cost).

he got it from the same bunch of ladies that told Richard about girls in Gillette dropping like flies from "nonconservative" vaccinations.

I was referring to this, Ricardo.