We believe Dick Hays is innocent.
Posted by Kacey (+3159) 12 years ago
Mr. Hays,
Knowing how important your reputation is to you and how you got shafted by the Miles City legal system I would like to start this posting.

I am asking everyone who believes as I do to add to this and let you know that you have lots of people who believe in you and your innocence.

Count me and the first signer.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
I just posted this, which I think nicely sums it up:

http://www.milescity.com/...5772#85881
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Mr. Hays,

I don't know you. To my knowledge, I've never even met you. I don't care if you're innocent or not. For all I know, you stole Christmas in 1984 and personally injected Roger Clemens with HGH.

All I know is that if something looks like a nut and acts like a nut, it's probably a nut.

Please stop.
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Posted by JCF (+393) 12 years ago
"We beleive Dick Hays is innocent"

So does the Court, that is why the case was dismissed.

You all have kicked this dead horse so long, it is now glue. and your feet are sticking to it.
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Posted by mercy me (+138) 12 years ago
Kacey I'm with you and I think these other posters would be as well if it were they in his position. When and where is he planning this protest? I didn't hear the add on the radio.
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
He's trying to clear his name.Read the papers!!
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1284) 12 years ago
Brian, The trouble I have with idiots is they just don't know when to shut up. You should hope to be half the man Dick Hay is when you grow up.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
I read his whole multipage microscopic print letter, and read the stories posted at The Miles City Star web site. I think the original letter is posted here somewhere.

I don't exactly see what he's trying to clear or accomplish. The case against him was dismissed.

If he would have just shut up no one would have even remembered by now, however, since he keeps picking at a scab the wound won't heal, and he's spent an immense amount of time, effort, and money over essentially nothing. He took it all the way to the Montana Supreme Court losing at every step.

I haven't heard the radio ads, but as far as I understand it, the jist of his original argument was that he wanted his case dismissed "with prejudice" instead of being dismissed "without prejudice".

I also heard through the grapevine that he likely did sell alcohol to the minor, but because it was around midnight or whenever, the cop made a mistake and put the wrong date on a form.

If he wants to clear his name, IMO, he should not be creating a pile of paperwork, probably a foot high, all the way to the Montana Supreme Court, and then publicly announcing he intends to get arrested over what would be a completely different issue.

One thing you can say about Dick is that he apparently supports his local economy -- printers, the local newspaper, radio station, etc. Too bad he got a lawyer out of Billings.
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Posted by Matt Smith (+794) 12 years ago
Chuck, I agree.
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
Right on chuck! You took the words right out of my mouth.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
Are you people nuts? He has no avenue to "clear his name" when there is nothing to "clear". He was not found guilty of anything. The case against him was summarily dismissed. There wasn't even a trial.

Now if he intends on intentionally getting arrested, he will have a mark on his record -- I thought that's what he didn't want (?) -- so what's the purpose? More time in the court system, arguing about something that has nothing to do about anything.

I assume the police will simply ignore him, unless he does something extremely stupid -- which I hope he does not do.

I don't know Dick Hay, perhaps I've ran across him, but if he has children, I would hope they are considering some sort of intervention.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Brian, The trouble I have with idiots is they just don't know when to shut up. You should hope to be half the man Dick Hay is when you grow up.

Chuck (and Matt) - I DO hope to be half as bat-s**t crazy when I "grow up." I also hope to still have my nose (figuratively and literally). I hope that by the time I'm as mature as Mr. Hay, I'll be able to tell the difference between what's truly important and what's a Sisyphean waste of energy. When my brain has sufficiently calcified I reach a certain age, I hope I know the difference between useless paranoia and serenity.

Besides, I figure I won't truly have jumped the shark in this context until I spend thousands upon thousands of dollars, send 3,600+ letters and purchase airtime to rant and rave even further. By my calculations, I've should have at least a year's worth of time before I've overplayed my hand. Maybe if I express my plans to get arrested, you'll see me as the man I so want to be for you. Perhaps if I liberally sprinkle in some down-home, country-fried euphemisms?

But, in spite of all that, you're right - I do have a lonnnnnnnnng way to go before I'm as much of a man as a convenience store clerk GREAT AMERICAN PATRIOT. But like Sammy Davis, Jr. said, I've got high-apple-pie-in-the-sky-hopes!

Since you're both so concerned about my level of maturity, can I assume that I can count on your assistance when I try to prove that the Earth is actually flat? Am I approaching Haysian levels of over-the-top ridiculousness, or should I give it a year (or five)?
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Are you people nuts? He has no avenue to "clear his name" when there is nothing to "clear". He was not found guilty of anything. The case against him was summarily dismissed. There wasn't even a trial.

No, Larry - they just think it's cute to see a "persecuted" elder of the community fight the windmill The Man. How dare we question their desire to rally behind a man fighting the good fight wallow in misery brought on by perceived injustices?

Either of my grandfathers would be mortified to be in Mr. Hay's self-imposed situation. They have too much self-respect, and frankly, have better things to do.
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
Your a jerk!
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
Which one of us?

Oh, and by the way it's "You're a jerk!"
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
Both of you!
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
Mtgman, that kind of talk will send you packing from here.

Just a warning.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Mtgman - I calls 'em how I sees 'em. In other words, I'd rather be honest than nice.
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
I can't believe you two don't get what dick is fighting for.Go back and read the mailer he sent out.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
> Both of you!

OK, CCR ... I'm a jerk and proud of it ... but at least I know the difference between "your" and "you're".
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Mtgman - You called me a "jerk." I am not a jerk. I am going to spend as long as it takes (the going rate is five years) on a crusade to get it erased from the public record that you ever called me a jerk. I will not rest until this slander has been corrected! I will spend thousands of dollars and open up my own glue factory until this, THE GREATEST OUTRAGE IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY, is made right!

See where I'm going with this, Mtgman?
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Posted by Julie (+419) 12 years ago
No kidding Larry! The 'your' and 'you're' thing makes me crazy!

Almost as crazy as when people say "I could care less." Makes me want to respond with "I could agree more."
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 12 years ago
I also heard through the grapevine that he likely did sell alcohol to the minor, but because it was around midnight or whenever, the cop made a mistake and put the wrong date on a form.


Be careful, webmaster. You are dangerously close to libel. I agree with your position though. It's a dead horse.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
> Be careful, webmaster. You are dangerously close to libel.

I'll preface this with "in my opinion". There. Done. I'll take my chances.

That said, it's through the "grapevine", which means nothing, but I'm pretty darn sure the information is correct given the source.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 12 years ago
You're not anywhere close to libel.

Anyway, if you ever stopped at M&H and met the old guy with suspenders, you've crossed paths with Dick Hay.

And mtgman - I like how you through in the "If you were in this situation..."

Dumb*ass
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Posted by mtgman (+94) 12 years ago
GFY
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
GFY

Mtgman, as I said before with language like that you're coming awfully close to getting the boot.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
To pipe in, yeah, "mtgman", you are very close to getting gagged. I've given you a lot of rope, so enough with the "Your a jerk!" and the "GFY" type comments.

Got it?
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Posted by Kacey (+3159) 12 years ago
There is a big difference in being dismissed with prejudice and without prejudice.

You can have a dismissal with or without prejudice. With prejudice means that the suit can't be re-filed ( same res judicata concept again).

Without prejudice means that no decision has been made and the case can be refiled.

So if his case was dismissed without prejudice it means that the powers that be can pull him back in anytime on the same charge. I wouldn't want that hanging over my head considering the kangaroo courts in Miles City.

How many of you would like to have been charged for something, never been proven guilty then told to just go away and if we decide later to drag your butt back into jail and court we will do it?

It was wrong. The people in charge of this case are the stupid ones. The bad publicity Miles City's legal system has generated by not handling this properly will go on a LONG time.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
I think we pretty much already established the definition of "with prejudice" vs. "without prejudice".

I'm not implying there were not idiots on the other side of things. Seems like the newbie cop screwed up and the bone headed prosecutor (was well, bone headed.)

But I'm sure you've heard the phrase: "You can't fight City Hall".

Just saying.

IMO, Dick has better things to do with his life, time, and money than to dick around with this. He will never prevail and will get no benefit other than more anger and frustration, and if he does get himself intentionally arrested, then he just sullied the one thing he didn't want to do ... he'll have a mark on his record and reputation (caused only by his own actions.)

It's his life though, so whatever, as long as he doesn't hurt anyone else in the process ...
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1893) 12 years ago
Speakin' of tilting at windwills, Brian........
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Speakin' of tilting at windwills, Brian........

I should have at least another five years of ranting and raving before I reach rhinoplastic/Hay-Quixotian levels, Bob.

I was perfectly content to leave the matter as understated as I could. But then Chuck had to go tell me to grow up because I didn't humor our Sage O' Suspenders. Well, I showed him my "maturity" in an as over-the-top fashion as I could. Yeah.

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (5/15/2009)]
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 12 years ago
He can tell me to GFMS as long as he involves himself in some other threads

What Dick is basically asking is that this stuff is erased from the public record. The whole sh*t is ridiculous, he absolutely is drawing unnecessary attention to an issue that is as resolved as it can be. They can't just erase it from the record books. The best Dick can hope for is that some fed starts taking a look at how the justice system, from start to finish, works in MC. There was obviously no investigation, Dick at least carded them - he was a hardcore carder. Anytime we bought beer from him we had fake IDs or a hobo or something.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (5/15/2009)]
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
When did Golf For Yarmulkes become such an insult?
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1284) 12 years ago
Yes, It is sad that the resolution that Dick seeks is no longer available in this country. Dick wants justice and she's left the building along with fairness and a good $5.00 hair cut, so in this regard Dick is beating a dead horse. But as I see it it's his horse and he can beat it all he wants with my blessing.
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Posted by Julie (+419) 12 years ago
Well said Chuck ~
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Posted by ABE (+421) 12 years ago
See thats what I don't get. Dick was kind of famous for always carding you. I bought all the time at M&H but knew not to when he was even in the building because he would ask for ID.
When I heard he got busted for selling to a kid, I though thats B.S. probably the trick they tried pulling at the Texas club around that same time.
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Posted by bjmama (+12) 12 years ago
Isn't there a statute of limitations on this whole thing? I would think that it's been too long for them to refile the case even if they wanted.
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Posted by poisonspaghetti (+281) 12 years ago
This forum was a great idea, Kacey. Now, if we can just get each of the 9000 or so citizens of Custer County to log in here, maybe Dick will finally LET IT GO!!
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Posted by Carlos Bog (+13) 12 years ago
I've read and listened to info. about the "Dick Hay" incident and I wonder why the youths who were caught with the alcohol, were not prosecuted for M.I.P., like any other youths in Miles City???Was there a deal made??? If anything, maybe Mr. Hays is bringing to light the double standards our society has for the privileged ie: Judge's wife driving the wrong way on the interstate, drunk, and the attempted cover up.It seems to me, that a "plea bargain" was made by the youths in question, and they lied to get out of trouble. Mr.Hays was cleared of the charges, but the youths still go unpunished for M.I.P.??? What does that teach our children? Get into trouble, find a fall guy, lie, and " No Worries".Just curious
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Posted by JCF (+393) 12 years ago
Carlos - you are 100% off the mark with your comparison to the Cybulski matter - the Judge's wife - was prosecuted and convicted of a crime.

The case against Mr. Hays was dismissed. The end.
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Posted by Carlos Bog (+13) 12 years ago
JCF, you are right, Cybulski was prosecuted and convicted , but I was making reference to the alleged attempt to cover it up. Sorry that my composition skills are lacking. I will ask the question plainly; Were the youths caught with the alcohol, prosecuted and convicted? Why not? , M.I.P. is a crime. So an innocent man's reputation was soiled, and guilty youths go unpunished.Sounds fishy to me!!!!
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Posted by Little Chick (+63) 12 years ago
How did Dick's protest turn out on Saturday? Did many of you attend it?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17321) 12 years ago
I heard that it went fine until the cops raided it and discovered teenagers in posession of alcohol...
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Posted by Darcie Black Fast (+27) 12 years ago
What was the Texas Club incedent?
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Posted by Samantha (+115) 12 years ago
I used to work with Dick back in the day @ M&H. He does card everybody. He's been carding my best friend for over 10 years & she goes in there almost daily. Jeff Noble is a dousche bag, no common sence with that man. Dick deserves what he is asking for & if his plan to clear his name works, more power to him. He is one of the coolest old guys I am thankful to have met in my lifetime.
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Posted by Kacey (+3159) 12 years ago
JCF...dismissed without prejudice. Please read the other posts and you can see it's not a done deal.
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2743) 12 years ago
Kacey and all:

I have a confession to make. At first I just didn't get why Mr. Hays couldn't just "move on." But after reading the posts in this thread and several previous threads, it finally has become clear to me.

Mr. Hays took a LOT of pride in his work, and part of his job was to make sure beer and alcohol didn't end up in the hands (and stomachs) of kids. So, after years and years of doing his job so well that kids didn't even try to buy beer when they saw him on duty, a simple twist of fate results in his being accused of failing to do his duty - which again was a responsibility he proudly performed day in and day out - a civic duty which he rightly viewed as an important contribution to society.

It is also very evident that Mr. Hays is charging at windmills when it comes to clearing his name in the legal system. That is a obviously a case of spilt milk (or beer, perhaps).

So what to do? I think Mr. Hays gave us a clue with his (misguided) protest effort. What is a protest? It's a method of drawing public attention to an issue, gaining public support, and ultimately (though rarely) prevailing over one's foe.

So where am I going with this? Well, I think Kacey is on the right track. The way to help Mr. Hays put this behind him (and just as importantly, the rest of us) is to provide him with public recognition for a job well done, and to reassure him that his hard-earned reputation as a defender of the law remains intact. Let him know that he will forever be fondly remembered by those who tried to outfox him (and probably their grateful parents, as well) as a tireless enforcer of the community standard against underage drinking.

Sooo... I'd like to suggest something to those who fondly remember Mr. Hays as a foiler of their juvenile attempts to buy beer and booze: Why not organize some sort of simple, non-alcoholic event to recognize and honor him? A little pat on the back might go a long way to healing some bruised pride. The sooner the better. Please. I'm not kidding.

[This message has been edited by Steve Craddock (5/19/2009)]
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Posted by Art (+205) 12 years ago
Please folks....it is Dick Hay, not Hays. Geeze!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9193) 12 years ago
JCF...dismissed without prejudice. Please read the other posts and you can see it's not a done deal.

Didn't this go all the way to the MT supreme court? Where they said it was a deal so done nothing could be done about it?
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1350) 12 years ago
MT. Supreme Court.....


Say that over in your head a few times and you'll get the joke.
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2743) 12 years ago
Hey Art. Or should that be "Hay"?

Thank you for pointing out Dick's correct last name. In one respect, Mr. Hay and Kevin Federline have something in common: They have attained fame beyond the norm for all others in their particular walk of life. There really is no reason for the general public to know how either one of them spells their last name - yet for some totally random reason, we do.

There really isn't anything I can do to take K-Fed out of the public spotlight - I think he enjoys it too much. But Mr. Hay seems to have ended up in the spotlight through a strange string of events in which he was trying to keep his name out of the public arena.

My suggestion is to give him one last blast of public recognition, after which he can peacefully exit the stage - which is what I gather he would like to do.

Perhaps you're one of the people who could help bring that about for him...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
Soooo... how about glow-sticks outside of M&H? :ducking:
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2743) 12 years ago
Ricardo -- THANK YOU for a true belly laugh this morning!
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Posted by JCF (+393) 12 years ago
Kacey/Bridgier:

I am very aware of the difference between with and without prejudice. Try this - see if in Mr. Noble's entire term as City Prosecutor if he has EVER gone back and renewed a prosecution in a case that has been dismissed "without prejudice." My point is, the practical effect of the two types of dismissals is exactly the same. Further, six months from the date of entry of plea on a misdemeanor charge, the speedy trial clock runs - so - the case effectively ended on that date, and Mr. Noble could not have refiled the charges then anyway. Conversely, the City Court (as the Mont. Sup. Ct. stated) could not alter or change the order, because the case was over. I sympathize with Mr. Hay. However, this case was over long ago. That is why I ended my last comment with "the end."
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Posted by Little Chick (+63) 12 years ago
It sounds like no one from Milescity.com went to this and no one else I talked to went either. That's too bad it was such a poor turn out after Dick paid for that radio ad to get his supporters out there on the streets of Miles City.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 12 years ago
Everyone knows he's innocent, everyone knows the MCPD is the Hazzard County Sheriff's Department, everyone knows this City or County Attorney (whatever he is) is a crap lawyer with a free ticket to operate as he wants, and everyone knows the judges would be burning witches and cutting off thumbs if it were allowed. I guess we've resigned ourselves to knowing MC operates that way. Dick should head for warmer climates. I feel for him and we all know the truth. It's time to let go - see the world, MC sucks, it just took 80 years to find out. (I'm sure it wasn't always sucky.)
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
It sounds like no one from Milescity.com went to this and no one else I talked to went either. That's too bad it was such a poor turn out after Dick paid for that radio ad to get his supporters out there on the streets of Miles City.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA! Back up the truck - you mean to tell me that something Dick Hay did in regard to this whole matter was a waste of time, energy and money!? I cannot believe that for a second!

Drag.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 12 years ago
What JCF wrote a few or so posts up.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Larry - what you posted wasn't nearly the "Jerk!" type post I've come to expect from you. Where's the love, man? And by love, I mean snark. Sweet, juicy snark.

Me, I keeps it REAL!
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2743) 12 years ago
OK - Now something else has become crystal clear -- we mc.commies LOOOVE to endlessly comment on irresolvable issues -- if indeed Mr. Hay's predicament can be called an "issue." Have fun folks.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9193) 12 years ago
I've been saying that from the beginning JCF - there's nothing that can be done because there's nothing to do. Maybe Dick should spend his money on something useful, like reopening Larry's Video or something.
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Posted by JCF (+393) 12 years ago
Bridgier:

My comment was addressed to you and Kacey, because you two had discussed it back and forth. Looks like we agree, I just wanted to address my comment to both of you, to join your argument.

Thanks,
JCF
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Maybe Dick should spend his money on something useful, like reopening Larry's Video or something.

Has that case been solved? I know no one seemed to care a few years ago.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 12 years ago
I recently read about a syndrome called post traumatic embitterment disorder that medical professionals are considering classifying as a true mental illness that seems to relate to this. It's when a person becomes fixated on a personal injustice, either perceived or real, and simply can't let go of it even after all avenues of redress have been attempted. I only hope that Mr. Hay eventually finds some peace so that the rest of his life is not consumed by this one issue.
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