More American Troops In Afghanistan
Posted by michael naatjes (+996) 13 years ago
I feel that putting more american troop in Afghanistan is dumber than leaving them in Irac. Our troops need to be pulled home and they need to be deployed to the border states between the USA and Mexico. American troops should patrol this area and detroy the drug cartel involved their and stop or slow down the immigration between the two countries. We can't even take care of our own we sure don't need anymore. i am tired of supporting the freeloaders let them stay in their own crappy country and let them support them. Our borders need to be locked down and our country needs to stand up and rebuild itself from the bottom up not from the top down.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6115) 13 years ago
Wow. (or should that be woe?)
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Posted by T Brown (+484) 13 years ago
really ?!?!?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15082) 13 years ago
Why is our mainstream media not telling us that there have been nearly twice as many deaths in the drug war on our southern border as have occurred in Iraq?

http://projects.latimes.c.../its-a-war
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Posted by Bob L. (+5101) 13 years ago
Hola, Ricardo!

Since when does the L.A. Times not qualify as the "mainstream media?"

Just sayin'
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15082) 13 years ago
My guess is the LA Times was covering it as a local story. I think of CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, ONN, Huffington Post, etc as "mainstream media"
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Posted by Bob L. (+5101) 13 years ago
So, you're basically saying that you don't read.

I understand.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15082) 13 years ago
No, that is not what I am saying. Don't you have some basketball to watch and money to lose?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5101) 13 years ago
Hey, the wingnuts at conservapedia agree with me, listing the L.A. Times as "mainstream media."

http://www.conservapedia....ream_media

Suck on that, Ricardo! Also.


I'm having a great March Madness - up 15 units so far and climbing. UNC and OU were plays o' the day yesterday... woo hoo!

Louisville over Mich State big tomorrow...also
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Posted by Derf Bergman (+590) 13 years ago
Why is our mainstream media not telling us that there have been nearly twice as many deaths in the drug war on our southern border as have occurred in Iraq?

I'm having a little difficulty with the math here. It looks to me like the death total in the Mexican drug war is somewhere around 7 to 8 thousand. Are you just comparing that to US and Coalition Military casualties? Estimates have the total deaths in Iraq (military, police, and civilians) to somewhere between 100 to 150 thousand. Or do they just not count?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5101) 13 years ago
Math, among other things, is not Ricardo's forte. Also.

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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15082) 13 years ago
"I'm having a little difficulty with the math here. It looks to me like the death total in the Mexican drug war is somewhere around 7 to 8 thousand. Are you just comparing that to US and Coalition Military casualties? Estimates have the total deaths in Iraq (military, police, and civilians) to somewhere between 100 to 150 thousand. Or do they just not count?"

Total American casualties since the beginning of the war on Mar 19th, 2003 are 4261. Of those deaths, 3425 are in combat deaths.

http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/

If we use derf's logic don't we really need to go back to about 622 AD and count all the deaths from that point forward?

Isn't the real issue here about a war on our own border that is under-reported and the use of our own military to defend our own borders?
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Posted by Derf Bergman (+590) 13 years ago
Incidentally, when I said 100 to 150 thousand Iraqui deaths, there are estimates much higher than that-- like half a million or so. Those estimates can be found linked to the site you just posted

But, I'm trying to work with you here, Richard. What you seem to be saying is that the other people killed in Iraq don't count for purposes of comparison to the Drug War. Is that what you're saying?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4455) 13 years ago
Richard cares about Mexicans
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Posted by Jim Brady (+432) 13 years ago
Derf:

Since you're all concerned about numbers, be sure to throw in all the murdered ones Saddam had stored in mass graves all over the country. They probably counted for something to somebody.

Oh. That's right. Still no accurate body count on those folks yet.

Out of curiosity, can you tell me how many Iraqis, Kurds, Christians, bad athelets and general malcontents are still being processed through Uday and Qusay's plastic shredders down at the old soccer stadium in Baghdad?
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Posted by Derf Bergman (+590) 13 years ago
No I can't, but they're dead too.

That's exactly my point.

Richard stated that the "drug war," caused by our overwhelming appetite for illegal substances, had killed twice as many people as the war in Iraq. That is not an accurate statement.

Maybe we don't need military action somewhere on our southern border. Maybe we need NA.
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Posted by Jeff Newby (+158) 13 years ago
Well I remember doing a "Counter Narcotics" mission back in the 90's when I was just a Corporal in the Army. Well here I am 16yrs later still in the Army and the drug problem has not gone away. If you want to put American Soldiers on the border then get ready and have some of the corrupt polititians lift the R.O.E (rules of engagement). Oh and also you may want to remove the corrupt Border Patrol Agents that are down there. Kind of a waste of time to put US Troops on the border and as soon as we call in the spot report of 20-30 drug runners coming across the border then here comes the BP agent with high beams and light bar with the siren going. Just makes them run south again.
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1887) 13 years ago
Wars are only cool when there's a Republican in the White House.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15082) 13 years ago
"Richard stated that the "drug war," caused by our overwhelming appetite for illegal substances, had killed twice as many people as the war in Iraq. That is not an accurate statement."




Please go back and read what I wrote again. Most everything I have said in this thread was as a question, not a declarative statement.

And from the data I sited you couldn't determine that I was talking about only American troops in Iraq? As I said before using your logic we should go back to 622 A.D. and start counting from there.
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Posted by Derf Bergman (+590) 13 years ago
Okay, since it was a question I'll answer it. The mainstream media has not told us that there have been nearly twice as many deaths in the drug war on our southern border as have occurred in Iraq because there haven't been.

Now, if you want to talk about the drug war we could. There's nothing about the Mexican drug war that a healthy dose of Narcotics Anonymous in North American culture wouldn't cure.
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Posted by Derf Bergman (+590) 13 years ago
You CITE data, Richard,
and find it on a webSITE.
Don't mix the two up.
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Posted by spacekace (+890) 13 years ago
When will people realize that the war on drugs will NEVER be won. Why not legalize everything in the US. Have it distributed and taxed by the government. Maybe we could gain back some of the deficit?! I believe drugs is like underage drinking... It won't be cool to be caught with pot if it's not illegal!
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4458) 13 years ago
Have it distributed and taxed by the government.

Ha ha. That sounds novel, but remember, the only thing less efficient than the black market is the federal government.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17732) 13 years ago
Wow.
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Posted by Dani (+15) 13 years ago
Americans need realise that there is an agenda the current administration (and I don't mean Republicans or Democrats, I mean our government that is run by bankers and big business) is pushing. It's sickening to think people still believe that the puppets standing infront of them on the TV care about them. Wake up America. They don't give a damn about you! We are numbers. Disposable. Read up on the organizations that our President (past and current) are apart of. Read up on the Council on Foreign Relations, United Nations, FEMA! Realise these organizations are not good, I REPEAT NOT GOOD! They have sanctions that completely take away our human rights. As for "mainstream media" please realise all the news for our "wars" comes from the Central Command, doesn't matter where you get your news from it's all coming from CENTCOM. And immigration is a joke. They don't want to keep people out. Read up on the North American Union. The Amero.

Open your eyes people. It's time to revolt. Stand up and take back your country and your rights.
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10040) 13 years ago
In terms of Afghanistan. . . .

It's good to see that there is now a more acknowledged recognition that achieving solutions / stability also involves economic, political and social dimensions (something along the lines of what was once, I believed, called a "hearts and minds" strategy).

It's like also good that there now seems to be a more widely accepted understanding that the Taliban is not a monolithic structure - that all Taliban are not international Jihadist. It's good to see an admitted understanding that many Taliban members and groups are far more concerned with local, family, and tribal affairs than they are with larger "global" issues.

That these new perspectives will bear fruit remains to be seen - seems like a long shot at best, but it does seem a better shot that we had previously.

But no solution to Afghanistan lies solely within that country's borders. And the external dimensions of the solution are at least as challenging and daunting as are the internal ones. What's to be done with Pakistan - what can be done with Pakistan? What can be done about relations with Pakistan and India and the Kashmir? Absent an resolution in Kashmir, it doesn't possible to wean the Pakistani government away from support of Jihadist groups including the Taliban.

I had not until recently had any understanding of how the Kashmir situation influences Pakistan's policies towards Afghanistan. If what I'm learning is somewhat true, then "fixing" Afghanistan will be far more difficult than I had ever imagined. I've no clue if achieving stability in Afghanistan is possible - it seems to me that we have to try. And, I hope we do and that we achieve some measure of success. But, absent regional solutions I don't know that success within Afghanistan is possible.
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1291) 13 years ago
I hope the Obama surge works as well as the last one did.
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