Since the first thread is over 200 messages long, I thought I'd start a new one. I was showering this morning--I didn't last night for the sake of water pressure even though Steve and I smelled as if we had spent the day 'round a campfire--and got a tremendous whiff of smoke smell as the water hit my hair. Which reminded me. . .

KUDOS to Allen Kelm and the guys at the water plant. Keeping the pressure up for the hydrants without blowing the old lines is an art and they did it! We have survived in spite of our water tank issues and that is due to them. So, big hand for the guys who keep the water flowing.

EDITOR'S NOTE:

This is a continuation of this thread:

Fire! Main street is burning again...

http://www.milescity.com/...fpid=77310

What (if any but presumably so)damage is there to the buildings across Main St. where all the smoke was blowing into? Stockman Bank? The Texas Club? etc etc. Any news there?

SMOKE. Just lots of smoke. Stockman had extra ventilator fans set up today. Some water in some basements on the low side of the street as well but nothing structural or even severely cosmetic.

My aunt sent me a message yesterday with a picture of the fire as it was getting started. I was sick to hear that more of our beloved city was burned. I have been away from home far too long and I spent the day at work today looking at videos and reading peoples stories. It was all I could do to not cry. I'm heart broken at the loss. I thank god that no one lost their life in the fire. I consider anyone who helped during this a hero!

It's wonderful how many people who have moved away are still so connected to "home", and still care what happens.

Does anyone have a picture of the block as it was and then a wide angle of the block now?

Well that's at least a little bit of good news. Thanks for the quick info

Even better news then that... Day 1 of the day after the fire is almost over. Soon Day 2 will be here and Day 3 and so on. Time heals all wounds. Even the big ones. It may be a slow process but I have no doubt that Miles City will heal.

Thankyou everyone for that

Amorette, are they going to try to save the corner steel pieces that were the supports on the Arnold Block? Those might be something of history and interest to work into a new building.

A photo of the January 1985 Miles Howard Hotel building fire from the 1985 Branding Iron yearbook:



http://www.flickr.com/pho...384470808/

And the yearbook pages the photo came from:



http://www.flickr.com/pho...otostream/

Oh, and boy does Miles City's current aerial truck look fancy compared to the one they had in 1985. I wonder what year that old truck was.

I am still so shocked but grateful no lives were lost. A huge Thank You to all the firefighters, neighbors helping neighbors and prayers and thoughts to all. I had my very own house fire and it is so hard. Remember all the builidings may be gone but we indeed do get to keep those memories. It was great to discover this site thanks to my lil cousin Lynne. First it was Bozeman, then Whitehall now my hometown. I really enjoy hearing all the memories come forth I would like to read more. I don't have too many for that block. I think I was fitted for my first bra in Shores (I hated that) and I remember as a wee thing going to a dr's appt. with my Mother above Big Sky and she lit up a cigarette well...having never seen my mother smoke before I yelled (me..loud?) Mama you don't smoke...I guess she didn't after that because I had thoroughly embarressed her. Blessings to all.

Excellant Idea Cory. Helena has parts and pieces they saved after some of their fires.

Amorette If you put together or if anyone puts a special edition paper out on this fire. The historical aspect, the memories, the Hero's and maybe some of the what nows. I would purchase several copies. Let me know Jude at [email protected] thanks blessings

I was just thinking of something very sad It strange how things always seem to come back to bite us. How can you rebuild a Main Street that is in a proposed flood zone? Mayor do you have any ideas. Maybe we need to rebuild very quickly.

So sad to see these buildings burn. So many memories. Going back further than some folks have reminisced about, I remember Vaughn Ragsdale before Anthony's, The Melody Shop/Sports Center, Sage's Men's Store, Western Pharmacy (before Western Pharmacy, Frank's, owned by Frank Peterson) and then the barber/beauty shop on the corner owned by Ed and Monte (sp ?) Selbman. Around the corner and continuing down 8th street was Stokes and Stratton Jewelers and an insurance company - maybe Farmer's Insurance or something like that.

Am praying that the business owners can salvage something and get back on their feet soon, possibly in another location in MC.

I have some picture of the ones that were in the shadow boxes in Anthonys. I would like to post them here and not sure how to. Can some one help me.

Here are some instructions on how to post photos - hope they are helpful
http://www.milescity.com/...fpid=69161

I sent the pictures to David Schott. He said he would post them.

I posted the photos in the "March 2009 Fire" set:

http://www.flickr.com/pho...811844812/

Thanks, Glenda. Those bring back memories of shopping at Anthony's.

- Dave

Hi all,

This whole thing has been rather strange to me because, as it happens, I am in Miles City now. I drove-up here from Minnesota with my daughters on Monday, the day the fire broke-out...we just came up so my girls could hang-out with their grandparents a few days. Of course, I was informed of the fire once we arrived...and my dad and I did a drive-by yesterday to look at the damage.

Depressing to say the least.

Several people here have already shared memories of places like Little Big Men Pizza, the Big Dipper Ice Cream, the Sports Card Store, Arnies Arcade, The Cellar and on-and-on...it's one thing to see the buildings associated with those memories gone, but I guess my bigger concern is about the ability of the current businesses to rebuild, relocate or otherwise bounce-back in these current tough economic times.

In my lifetime, I've had to see a few places go up in flames only to never be rebuilt or otherwise come back: The Red Rock Village, Crossroads Inn, the El Robo Building and the Milligan Hotel/Mode O Day/Mc Donalds building to name several. The Airport Inn DID come back after the fire, but that was an exception.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm sorry it happened and am quite saddened by it...and that I wish the best to those who lost their businesses and homes in this latest fire.

I also join the others in offering kudos to those who chipped-in to help the situation in any way they did.

My best wishes, also, as far as whatever ends-up happening from here on out...obviously a rebuild would be awesome, but it seems like a lot to hope for at this time.

Glenda/Shu

Thanks for the pictures of the pictures from Anthony's--and the reminences about other businesses that suffered from past fires.

As tragic as this fire has been, I do enjoy the journey down memory land!

B

David, that truck you refer to was a 1945 I believe. Somewhere right in there. I was suprised to not see it down there. I thought the department still had it stashed somewhere. There wasn't near as many trucks being used as I thought there would be. Of course, newer trucks are more effecient.

Shu mentioned the Milligan Hotel/Mode O Day/Mc Donalds building. I think there used to be a Met Cafe before the McDonalds store. Food was served cafeteria style, and excellent. Didn't eat out much back then, but it was likely one of the first experiences I remember dining out.

FYI The building that housed Burlap & Lace, Family Floral, and Copper Thimble was already in the flood plain before the new one was drafted so that part won't change. I hope that these business owners can and will rebuild so that they can again be a part of the down town of Miles City.

This site is an incredible asset! The information has been posted in a timely and informative manner. I was impressed as I monitored coverage of the fire. Now, however, I am in awe!

I am currently working in North Dakota and am trying to glean information regarding the flooding from any source--professional or not--without success. What a contrast!

I am truly thankful to have found this site and plan to continue to explore the many and varied topics found herein.

Thanks to those who maintain this site--and to those who contribute!!

Vicki you are correct that part of main is unfortunatley already in the flood plain map drafted in 1983. So city ordinances would not allow the building of any inhabitable space below flood plain level in that area. That is very unfortunate and sad for Miles City.

It is very sad. It feels like the Miles City I grew up in in the 60's and early 70's is not really there anymore. I think it would make me sad to come back.

Is there by chance a provision in the rules regarding building in a flood plain that you can replace an existing structure as long as the footprint of the new structure is not larger than the footprint of the structure it replaces?

McFarland Dental built a new building on the corner of 6th and Main. How did that happen?

The dental office is just out of the current flood plain. Most of Miles City is in the new proposed flood map. Which is very unfortunate.

You can rebuild on a flood plain, you just have meet certain criteria, like not putting major electrical systems in the basement, and buy flood insurance. It's not the foot print of the building that counts but how far down it goes.

Yes, you can rebuild on a floodplain but your structure needs to be above flood plain level, in addition to many other building modifications. So many that it was too costly for us to put in a single level home. I can't imagine the cost for a business.
I guess we should be glad the businesses are not in a floodway. Because if more than 50 percent of the fair market value of the building is destroyed in a floodway then you can not rebuild at all.

Code requirements, whether they involve structural integrity, fire safety or flood worthiness, are oriented toward protecting the general public, the property owner and the individual inhabitant in the event of a disaster. And, as we now know, disasters do happen.

Consider this: If an automatic fire-suppression sprinkler system had been installed in the buildings on Main Street, the fire would have been put out before it spread, damage would have been minimal, Main Street would look the same today as it did last Sunday, and this thread would not even exist.

Of course there are differences between fires and floods, the key one being that the risk of fire is spread pretty uniformly throughout a city whereas the risk of flooding varies significantly by location. So, an important part of preventing losses due to floods is to identify areas at high risk of flooding and take preventative measures within those areas.

That's exactly what the flood map attempts to do - identify areas at higher risk of flooding. By informing people in those areas that the risk of flooding is higher, steps can be taken beforehand to minimize the type of damage and disruption that would likely occur in the event of a flood. That's what the building code and floodplain management ordinances are for - making sure that those preventative measures are taken. (The trick, of course, is making sure that the high risk areas are correctly identified. And that's exactly why the City has appealed to FEMA to reconsider certain aspects of the preliminary flood map - to make sure the 100-year floodplain and the floodway are accurately identified.)

In the long run, it pays off. Studies have shown that for every dollar spent in prevention, $7 to $11 in damages are saved. That's on a national scale. On an individual property owner level, the ratio can be much, much higher. And that's just the economics. Ask anyone who's been in a disaster, and it isn't the cost of things that hurt the most. It's the loss of family heirlooms and memories.

It all goes back to a simple homespun saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Back to Main Street. The fire wouldn't have started if a simple fire extinguisher had been on hand. It wasn't. The fire wouldn't have spread if a sprinkler system had been installed. It wasn't. As a result, people lost their homes and livelihoods, dreams went up in smoke, millions of dollars of damage occurred, Miles City lost an incredible amount of history, and emergency response crews risked their lives and limbs to keep the damage from being even worse.

Apply that lesson to a flood scenario, and you can see why it's important to take appropriate and reasonable steps in the floodplain to protect life and property in advance of the disaster.

A representative from the National Trust for Historic Preservation is due to arrive next week. The National Trust has funding for post-disaster recovery so we may be able to tap some of that for the Shores building.

There was a flare up last night but I think they will knock down the Arnold Block walls today.

I have seen several entries mentioning that the Milligan Hotel had burned in the past. The Milligan Hotel still stands on the northeast corner of 5th and Main. The Miles Howard burned in 1985. The Met Cafe burned at the same time as did a barber and beauty shop, the Golden Spur. They were all owned by the M.W. Milligan Estate. As you entered the Met Cafe the side to the left was all counter dining counters and the rest of the cafe was made up of many booths. I was last in it in the early 80's and it was not a cafeteria at that time. McDonald's Clothing store was in the 700 Block where I believe there is now a bank. Before it was McDonald's it was Karl Johnson's. I had worked in the Big Sky

HI
Take a look at the pictures of the flood from the Yellowstone River in the 40's. I can remember going with my dad down 7th Street to just past Kuilman's Garage. The house across the street had water to the back fence. They were launching boats from the sidewalk.
We lived at 829 Woodbury just off Tatro. The floodwaters rose to our back fence.
Linda Santoro

Wow Steve, hindsight is 20/20 and "if its and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a Merry Christmas". I'm more into foresight. Like how do we go about rebuilding Miles City's Main Street and can we?

Well, Extreme, "foresight" sure didn't seem to be where your previous posts were heading. Anyway, Merry Christmas to you, too.

Read it again. His point clearly was that maybe, just maybe, it might not be possible to rebuild main street as it was, given current building codes, construction costs and flood plain freaking nonsense. Not his opinion, just the facts. The costs to rebuild as it was, or better than what it was, may well be out of reach of those business owners. Without extraordinary measures, measures very few people have the money to make happen, the chance of downtown Miles City looking as it once did, or anything near that, are very slim. I don't like it either. But reality is staring Miles City in the face. Sometimes reality sucks. At the end of the day, sometimes all we have, or ever will have, are memories of what once was. Having said all that, I hope like hell you all make it happen. Decide what you want your main street to look like, and get it done. Work with those that have the money make it happen. When it's your main street again, you will have to work hard to remember what it looked like in February. It was never main street because of the way it looked. It was main street because all of you were there.
This is my first post regarding the fire since it happened. I have honestly been very much shocked and saddened by what has happened in my home town. Having just dealt with nearly the same thing here in Bozeman, the nerves are still quite raw. To all damaged by this fire, please accept my heartfelt condolences for your loss. You are strong, and you will survive. You will make one great glass of lemonade out of a massive pile of lemons. It's what we do.

If Extreme thought the purpose of my previous post was to look backwards with the benefit (and implied judgements) of 20/20 vision, then he/she totally misunderstood what I was talking about.

Extreme's series of posts seemed to be complaining that it was going to cost too much to incorporate floodproofing and other preventative design measures into a home that he/she planned to build in the floodplain. I was simply pointing out the irony of using this thread to advance that particular argument. Disasters do happen. Paying a little extra up front to prevent or at least reduce the potential damage when disaster does strike is a bargain compared to the alternative. I'm sure given the choice, the property owners, business operators, and apartment dwellers who suffered directly from the Main Street fire would agree.

It's a shame we can't turn the clock back for them. But the rest of us can look ahead with knowledge gained from this experience, recognize that disasters can occur to anyone (even US!), and take reasonable steps to protect ourselves against fire, floods, or whatever risks are most likely to impact us and our property.

So, who's looking forward? who's looking back? and who's just plain not looking?

http://farm4.static.flick...b059_b.jpg
This was taken this morning.

Thanks Tanneil for the picture...sad.

Steve, Never once did I try to make this thread anything about building or not building my own home in the flood plain. I was just sharing some prior knowledge and lessons I have learned. I am most concerned about the rehab of Miles City's Main Street. Being my family has been here currently for 5 generations. I'm all for putting in sprinkler systems and making buildings safer from true "threats". A city ordinance should be passed that demands sprinkler and smoke alarms connected to 911. Also fire walls and doors should be a must for buildings sharing walls.I was suprised to find out it's not currently mandatory. But the good people of Miles City should know that any rebuilding of businesses on Main is a pretty big reach. Maybe something like a building with a parking garage under would work. It could serve several purposes and fix some problems(lack of parking). Of course not very historic but maybe it could be designed with a historic look. Maybe it would be a great spot for that much needed swimming pool or community center. Maybe we could get some stimulus money for that. Maybe a tragic situation will turn into a great opportunity.

It wasn't too many years ago that Stockman Bank bought the old Strong Block building (NZ Shoes) and the Log Cabin Bar, demolished them and built an addition onto its bank. That's right across the street from the fire site. Not in the "old" flood plain?

Coast to Coast/Steadman's Ace Hardware was able to rebuild on their site (south side, 800 block) and I think that building even has a basement. Not in the "old" flood plain?

Perhaps if you don't need to finance and are willing to accept the risk and go without flood insurance you can build in the flood plain?

Anyone know how much fill would be needed (or how high above street level occupied floors would need to be) to build on the fire site if you want to comply with old and new flood plain rules? Are you even allowed to do that? Bring in 10 feet of fill, build up high, displace all that flood water onto your neighbors' property?!

- Dave

I was looking through some of Hal Neumann's postcards:

http://s221.photobucket.c.../Downtown/

And I saw this one that looks like a photo of the Arnold Block and the buildings that were there before the Miles Block. Right?



http://s221.photobucket.c...ca1907.jpg

Extreme - Apparently I misunderstood your original post. My bad. I like your I'm confident that all of us - oldtimers and newcomers alike - will find a common bond and work together to bring something good out of this misfortune.

I just returned from Bozeman and I was shocked to see the rubble from the explosion that rocked that city is still piled up on the street. I understand the investigation there is very complicated and is proceeding very methodically. Hopefully the investigaton here will be simpler and therefore we'll be able to move into recovery mode more quickly.

Is there any information from the historical guy on the Shore's building? Can it be saved? Is there money available to do so?

David, here's another old shot of the Arnold building - wish it was a better preserved photo.

That does not look like the Arnold Block building that burned.

I'm thinking it's a job for Amorette. Perhaps she'll know if there was an earlier Arnold building on Main. Or perhaps she'll tell me that the photo is mislabeled.

That's a later Arnold building, the Arnold Glass Block, so-named for its expanse of windows. It was later Reynold's Grocery, then Coast to Coast, and, well, you know the rest.

Now that you've explained where that is, the corner looks very familiar. Thanks Amorette - I knew you'd have the answers.