That's Not Change
Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
That's more of the same:

Obama backs Bush: No rights for Bagram prisoners
http://www.comcast.net/ar...Detainees/

"The hope we all had in President Obama to lead us on a different path has not turned out as we'd hoped," said Tina Monshipour Foster, a human rights attorney representing a detainee at the Bagram Airfield. "We all expected better."

From the ACLU:

"They've now embraced the Bush policy that you can create prisons outside the law," said Jonathan Hafetz, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union who has represented several detainees.

So in sum in Obama's first 100 Days in Office he's tried to hire lobbyists (after countless fiery speeches to the contrary), tax cheats, increased massively the size of the Federal Budget and now looks to continue the "Failed Policies" of the Bush Administration he campaigned so vehemently against for the past two years.

Obama's really making it too easy for critics of his new Administration.

Like some posters here said of McCain:

HopeSame!

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
Oh for F sakes Kyle! You are no better than the rest of those "I told you so's". The guy has been in office 32 days today and you have decided his entire presidency. Come on.... that's like everyone saying that Bush was going to be the best president ever based on the "I hear you...We all hear you" speach on the rubble pile at WTC.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 12 years ago
Come on, Cory. You can't spend two years railing against a guy's policies, implying they're immoral if not illegal, and then snap a finger the second you take office and adopt most of those policies as your own, answering by saying your detractors are just bitter.

He's spending all his credibility right up front, that's for sure.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/h...903005.stm
Quoth the Obama Administration:

"Having considered the matter, the government adheres to its previously articulated position."

That is the Obama Administration adheres fully to the position articulated under the Bush Administration. The very same position we were told made Bush a war criminal. I guess we can take one lesson to heart... politics no longer have borders. Pledge Allegience to your Party.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Poor, poor, bitter wing nut.
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 12 years ago
Speaking of bitter, did anyone see, "Right America: Feeling Wronged?" Bitter doesn't even begin to describe the people shown.
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1893) 12 years ago
Shrubzilla is gone. That's more CHANGE than I could have HOPEd for.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
Shrubzilla is gone. That's more CHANGE than I could have HOPEd for.

Perhaps Bob, but when the next man in line continues the policies of the previous "Man-At-The-Helm" is that really change?
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 12 years ago
Kyle,

So you'd prefer that he do exactly opposite of Bush on EVERY decision that he makes?
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
So you'd prefer that he do exactly opposite of Bush on EVERY decision that he makes?

Kelly what I'd like is a little more consistency and accountability from the Liberals.

We've heard nothing but "Hope & Change" coming from the Obama camp and others ad nauseam for the last few years. However in his first 100 days in office he's done nothing but continue the policies he and others here were so vehemently objecting to with nary a peep from those same people today.

Perhaps that's why his approval rating is falling faster the Stock Market fell after Porkulus passed.

http://www.gallup.com/pol...roval.aspx

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1893) 12 years ago
I'll give you this, Kyle. You Righwingnuts ARE consistent. Oh. And REEEEEEAL accountable. They haven't done ANYTHING wrong. Just ask'em.

[This message has been edited by Bob Netherton (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
I've never said that Conservatives/GOP are perfect Bob, far from it. There are plenty of GOP mistakes over the years.

That said however it just seems to me that Liberals never seem to want to clean up after/admit to their own mistakes.

They'd just rather throw stones at a glass house.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Bruce Helland (+586) 12 years ago
So you spent 8 years defending these policies with Bush 'at the helm'?

Now you're wailing that Obama hasnt overturned all of Bush's policies?

So the policy was good before and now it isnt?

Just trying to follow your thought process Kyle.... (Not really)
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
However in his first 100 days in office he's done nothing but continue the policies he and others here were so vehemently objecting to with nary a peep from those same people today.

Again Kyle, it's only 32 days..... he has a long way to go to get the 100 day bashing.
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 12 years ago
And why this damn 100 day mark anyway? Seems arbitrary to me. So if something happens on day 101 it won't count?

[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
Now you're wailing that Obama hasn't overturned all of Bush's policies?

No Bruce, what I'm wailing about is the wild inconsistencies of the Liberals in regards to their Obamamessiah.

So the policy was good before and now it isnt?

Turn that question around for a second Bruce. So are the policies that Obama is following and ones that his predecessor implemented a good thing now that the person allowing them to continue has a "D" at the end of their name?

Liberals and the Democratic party ran on a platform of "Change The Evil Bush Policies" yet they are now embracing those very same policies they decried only months earlier.

If the Bush policies were as bad as the Democrats said they were then why is it that there's hardly a peep from them now that Obama's continuing them? Shouldn't they be bad no matter who's in the White House?

Or is it because Obama's last name ends in "D"?
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 12 years ago
Bruce...

But WE are Americans. What would be the harm in granting them trials or even informing them of the charges brought against them? If there isn't a case against them they shouldn't be held. It's not to far of a reach to imagine this happening to any of us. You say you don't have anything to worry about, you're not a criminal? That decision is not in your hands; someone else is in a position to determine that. When we imprison people without access to our legal system we are no different than some 'teapot despot' that rules through fear and intimidation not law. I thought {and hope} we are better than that.

Is Obama now equivalent to a 'teapot despot'? Or is that standard only held for Republicans?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
Kyle: I agree that the "pirate in chief" said a lot of thing in the campaign that now appear to have an expiration date. I too am pretty frustrated with his performance thus far.

That said, it probably does no good to have a knee-jerk reaction to everything his says an does. Anger will do nothing but make you old before your time. This guy is a one-term president who is in self destruct mode. The best thing we can do is give him all of the slack he wants. In four years, even Kacey will willing vote for Sarah Palin.
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Posted by ABC (+381) 12 years ago
ROFLASMP!!!

[This message has been edited by ABC (edited 2/21/2009).]
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
You wing nuts are the greatest!

On one hand, you've said that it's too early to properly assess the failed Presidency of George W. Bush.

OTOH, after a bit more than a month in office, you've already declared Obama's Presidency a failure.

Wingnuts: Delusional, or just wishful thinking?
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
OTOH, after a bit more than a month in office, you've already declared Obama's Presidency a failure.

Ok Bob let me ask you (or any other Liberal out there) a question then.

Do you think that George W. Bush instituted failed policies which led to his "Failed Presidency"?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Kyle:

Short answer: Yes.

For one, he made the policy decision to attack a country which had nothing to do with 9/11 and was not a threat to our national security.

He also made some bad hiring decisions. Michael Brown at FEMA would be one example. Don Rumsfeld at DOD would be another. Richard "Dick" Cheney at VEEP would be a third.

Additionally, Mr. Bush did not have the right temperament to be an effective leader.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
Kyle: Do you think that George W. Bush instituted failed policies which led to his "Failed Presidency"?

Bob L.: Short answer: Yes


Ok Bob, now let me ask you this:

Do you feel that Bush's successor Barack Obama, who has shown little or no interest in reversing some of those same "Failed Policies" thus far would also qualify as a "Failure"?

Speaking of bad hiring decisions:

Tax Evaders & Lobbyists
http://milescity.com/foru...fpid=71726

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/22/2009).]
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
OK Kyle, I guess you still are missing the point since you keep going back to the same thing. So lets ask the question another way.

What policy(ies) of Bush do you beleive that Obama should have changed IN THE FIRST 32 DAYS OF HIS PRESIDENCY?

And what do you suppose he might do in the next 66 of his 100 days? Lets find out before we attempt to set history before it happens.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
"On one hand, you've said that it's too early to properly assess the failed Presidency of George W. Bush."

Umm... IF it is a "failed presidency" haven't you already assessed it? What more needs to be said?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
"What policy(ies) of Bush do you beleive that Obama should have changed IN THE FIRST 32 DAYS OF HIS PRESIDENCY?"

Obama should learn to use the veto pen early and often when it comes to domestic spending. Instead, he continues and greatly expands the Bush federal spending policies.

Obama should keep his mouth shut about our economy. Every time Obama speaks, the stock market drops another 300 points. It has dropped more from Nov 5th to Jan 20th than it did in Bush's entire 8 years in office. Obama should reverse the Bush policies of interfering with the market.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Umm... IF it is a "failed presidency" haven't you already assessed it? What more needs to be said?

----------

Yes, it is a failed presidency. No more needs to be said.

Ricardo, you asked a logical question. Perhaps there is yet hope for you!
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Posted by David Schott (+17062) 12 years ago
Obama should keep his mouth shut about our economy. Every time Obama speaks, the stock market drops another 300 points. It has dropped more from Nov 5th to Jan 20th than it did in Bush's entire 8 years in office.

Really, Richard?

PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH

[f]DJIA CLOSING DATE CLOSING PRICE
Wednesday 11/08/2000 10,907.06
Monday 01/22/2001 10,578.24
Monday 01/19/2009 7,465.95

DECLINE Day after election to last day in office: 3,441.11
% DECLINE: 31.55%

DECLINE Inauguration to last day in office: 3,112.29
% DECLINE: 29.42%


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA

DJIA CLOSING DATE CLOSING PRICE

Wednesday 11/05/2008 9,139.27
Tuesday 01/20/2009 7,949.09
Friday 02/20/2009 7,365.67

DECLINE Day after election to January 20: 1,190.18
% DECLINE: 13.02%

DECLINE Day after election to current (2/20/09): 1773.60
% DECLINE: 19.41%[/f]
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1893) 12 years ago
David. They like to throw that kind of crap out there and hope it goes unchallenged. That's how Gush Limppaw, The Virgin Anne Coulter, and Sean Insanity work. Why not Ricardo?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Ok Bob, now let me ask you this:

Do you feel that Bush's successor Barack Obama, who has shown little or no interest in reversing some of those same "Failed Policies" thus far would also qualify as a "Failure"?

---------

Kyle:

(1) Obama has been in office for a bit more than a month. It will take time to reverse the failed policies of Mr. Bush.

(2) Obama inherited a recession (perhaps worse) from his predecessor, the failure that was President Bush. To jump start the economy, the gov't can do one of two things:
(a) Increase gov't spending
(b) Cut taxes
The stimulus package which was just enacted does both of these things. The stimulus package includes a larger tax cut than anything Mr. Bush passed with 6 years of a Republican Congress. Yet the wing nuts yell "socialism". It's all the wingnuts have. Sad, really.

(3) Bush was President for 8 years and his Presidency is over. I can fairly judge it as a failure, just as I did after Jimmy Carter's Presidency ended in 1981. Mr. Obama has been President for a bit over a month. It is far too soon to judge his Presidency as a failure. Perhaps it will be a failure. But I (and my 401(k)) hope it is not a failure.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
David. They like to throw that kind of crap out there and hope it goes unchallenged. That's how Gush Limppaw, The Virgin Anne Coulter, and Sean Insanity work. Why not Ricardo?

-------------

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Suck it, Ricardo!
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Posted by David Schott (+17062) 12 years ago
And they don't like to throw it out in cases like President Bill Clinton. DJIA day after election (11/04/1992): 3223.04, last day in office (1/19/2001): 10587.59. Change: +7364.55 or 228.50%
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
(1) Obama has been in office for a bit more than a month. It will take time to reverse the failed policies of Mr. Bush.

But when you adopt some of those same policies as your own it'll take a little bit longer to reverse them.

(2) Obama inherited a recession (perhaps worse) from his predecessor, the failure that was President Bush. To jump start the economy, the gov't can do one of two things:
(a) Increase gov't spending


You don't jumpstart an already weakened economy by ballooning the Federal Deficit to the tune of almost $1,000,000,000,000

(b) Cut taxes

Cutting taxes via redistribution of wealth to those who do not pay taxes isn't a tax cut Bob. It's called socialism and welfare.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Kyle:

You suck at economics almost as bad as Ricardo. Do some reading, my friend.

Cutting taxes increases the deficit.
Increasing gov't spending also increases the deficit.

[This message has been edited by Bob L. (edited 2/22/2009).]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
"Cutting taxes increases the deficit."

Only if there is no cut in federal spending which has always been the problem. Our politicians can't seem to decrease federal spending.
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
Oh, so it's a "politician" error, not just an "Obama" error. I would agree. But that would mean your problem is not with Obama, but politicians in general. Again, I can agree.

But to single out the president in the first 33 days as failing is plain crazy. It is just playing politics. Either you really want change or you are just looking for a reason to find fault with someone you do not support.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
Either you really want change or you are just looking for a reason to find fault with someone you do not support.

But again Cory the problem is that when Obama adopts and allows to continue the same Bush policies he called illegal and was so adamant about changing during the election he's really not changing anything.
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
But to single out the president in the first 33 days as failing is plain crazy

What I'm singling out is the double-standard the Liberals are applying to policies that Bush implemented and that Obama is continuing Cory.

We've heard nothing but "Bush's Failed Policies" from the Democrats and Liberals for the last 4 (really 8) years but now that a Democrat is continuing those same policies suddenly those same critics are remaining curiously silent.

So either we have failed policies that both Presidents are using or, it means that they weren't failed policies to begin with which means that one of them was lying when he called them "Illegal and Immoral".

Which is it?

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/22/2009).]
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
But Kyle, how do you say he is accepting them because he hasn't changed them when he's only been in office for such a short time? Don't you feel that there may be things to come?

Before you get so upset, wait and see what he does... in the rest of the 66 days. Then bitch about "the first 100 days". But to do it in the beginning before anything has had time to happen is not based upon fufillment or not of real expectations, but rather on pissing that your candidate didn't win.

You're just saying "See, we told you he wasn't that good" based on his first acts. I'm sure if you read any history of presidents, you would see that they didn't do all their work in the first 30 days. You just need to get into reality.

Again, the Dems have been in control of congress for 2 years. They had plenty of chances to override Bush but chose not to. So don't blame that on Obama. And even if Obama wanted to change EVERYTHING, he can't do it in the first month!

What do you think is a good timeline and how do you think it should have been executed? I ask these questions to try to understand your way of thinking.

[This message has been edited by Cory Cutting (edited 2/22/2009).]
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Posted by Kyle L. Varnell (+3745) 12 years ago
But Kyle, how do you say he is accepting them because he hasn't changed them when he's only been in office for such a short time?

Cory, this is why:

That's Not Change
http://milescity.com/foru...fpid=73747

"They've now embraced the Bush policy that you can create prisons outside the law," said Jonathan Hafetz, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union who has represented several detainees."

Here's another:

Tax Evaders & Lobbyists
http://milescity.com/foru...fpid=71726
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Posted by Schmitz - Matt (+402) 12 years ago
A reasonable timeline is 4 freaking years. I'm pretty sure that is still the term he will serve as president. To start bitching after less than 5 weeks is just plain moronic. This president has to deal with republican obstructionists at every turn. If he tried to make burning babies illegal, the right would fight him, or try to turn it into their idea. Are you trying to tell me that the war should be over, the economy fixed, and the rest of the world in love with us again after 5 weeks? That is really close to the most ludacris crap ever posted on this or any other web site. It took the shrub 8 years to dick up the entire country. And your all bummed out that it isn't fixed in less than 8 weeks? I know Hannity and Limbaugh rule the world of the right, along with Ingram and a handful of other freaking nut jobs, and every thing they pronounce is the law in right wing nut job land, but if you really believe all that crap, you should go in for re-programming. If those morons had all the answers, maybe one of them would run for office instead of just bitching all day long? But they would have to take a pay cut to make a difference, while bitching pays way more. Go figure. More right wing nut jobs in love with their money, more than they are in love with making a difference. Who could have ever seen that coming?

[This message has been edited by Schmitz - Matt (edited 2/22/2009).]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14950) 12 years ago
Yes, it is a reasonable expectation because thats what Obama promised to do when he descended through styrofoam piller's in Denver.
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1893) 12 years ago
Did he say specifically in 30 days?

Bush promised to bring dignity to the presidency, not to mention a new spirit of cooperation between the major political parties. Golly! He accomplished so much more.
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Posted by T4TX (+41) 12 years ago
Wall Street is selling the stimulus plan short. There's an Obamamaton born every minute.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 12 years ago
Kyle said: however it just seems to me that Liberals never seem to want to clean up after/admit to their own mistakes.

Huh? George W. Bush has never admitted to making any mistakes during his presidency.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
(b) Cut taxes

Cutting taxes via redistribution of wealth to those who do not pay taxes isn't a tax cut Bob. It's called socialism and welfare.

--------------

So, Kyle, who ARE all of these people who don't pay ANY taxes and get a tax cut? Help me out here. Or are you just parroting some wing nut radio host and/or making schtuff up?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 12 years ago
Now Wendy, Bush is a big enough man to admit he's made mistakes... here's a quote from 2004:



But one question for which Bush was evidently not prepared invited him to name his biggest mistake since 9/11.

"I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it," Bush joked before taking a long pause.

"I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with answer, but it hasn't yet."

Then came a meandering soliloquy that wandered from an affirmation of his decisions to invade Afghanistan and Iraq to his firm belief that former Iraqi president Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction and the discovery of mustard gas on a turkey farm in Libya.

"I don't want to sound like I have made no mistakes. I'm confident I have. I just haven't...you just put me under the spot here, and maybe I'm not as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one," Bush concluded




Oh. Never mind.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 12 years ago
Mmm ... turkey sandwich with mustard.



[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (edited 2/23/2009).]
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 12 years ago
Matt, you are the man! We are on the same wave... I just was trying to control myself. And yet, I was not getting across what I wanted. But you have taken the thoughts out of my head. Thank you.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 12 years ago
In reality, this is what we're seeing here...

http://www.youtube.com/wa...=1&index=5

The day before election day "Bush Policies XY and Z are illegal and immoral!"

The day after taking office "We've decided to go ahead and adopt policies XY and Z"

Since when did the campaign promise trump the action in office?

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 2/24/2009).]
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