From Yahoo news today:

Not only is the 44-year-old governor opposed to abortion rights - but she carried and gave birth to a child with Down syndrome earlier this year, a profound and powerful motivating force to both opponents of abortion rights and the parents and relatives of special needs children.

First of all, I think women over the age of 40 who have children should be intelligent enough to know the risks of having a child with birth defects. There are more and more special needs children because women are putting their careers first and then having a child when it fits into their schedule.

Does not a special needs child need extra care and attention from it's parents? Especially it's mother? Who is going to be caring for this baby while Palin is out campaigning?

This gets to me for many reasons. But to use a child born with birth defects as a campaign gimmick is probably the lowest I've seen in politics in a long long time.

She also supports the teaching of intelligent design in State sanctioned curriculums.
http://dwb.adn.com/news/p...3554c.html

Also some oddities about that Down's syndrome child:

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834

Wow. She was too old to have kids which caused it to have downs syndrome, but it was actually her daughter's.

FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL!

WOW! Just one big you've got to be fu*cking with me WOW!

If this story is true, it is dirty politics at it's worst. If it is just speculation on the part of the caring and compassionate liberal press it is unforgivable and plain MEAN.

Kacey, As Amorette has pointed out it gets much, much, lower than using a handicapped child as a campaign gimmick.

Do I owe Mona and Champers an apology?

Normally, I'm not one for conspiracy theories but this is so bizarre, I am leaning towards believing it. The photos, the coincidence of the daughter's illness, the getting on a plane rather than going to a hospital, all pretty darn weird.

I suspect the gov. and her husband just used the traditional method of hiding a daughter's pregnancy and I can sympathize with that, especially if you are big on abstinence only education, but to be a vice presidential candidate means you are going to be looked at under a microscope and every deception, no matter how well meaning, will look bad.

Mostly, I feel sorry for the daughter, who may or may not be the mother. She can't be enjoying the scrutiny on top of what may have been an unplanned pregnancy. Oh, and younger mothers also have a higher incidence of Down's syndrome than women in their 20s and 30s so that fits, too.

Whole thing is just plain odd.

I'm sure we could drag her daughter to a clinic and have them varify her sexual status to make sure she is not the mother of this child. Oh! Wait a minute we can't do that this is still America, I guess we will have to get by with wild speculation and uneducated guesses.

Oswald did not act alone.
Area 51 does exist.
9-11 was an inside job.
We never landed on the moon.
Big foot lives.

Just a few other items you can find compelling evidence for.

If they where trying to keep this "very private matter" PRIVATE why would she accept the nomination? WHY?

The republican powers that be in Alaska are mad at her for exposing some of their corruption, and while I don't agree with her platform, I do admire her exposing of their corruption...Why trash this lady, just discuss the issues...It is like the trashing of Hillary revisited and I find it repugnant to say the least....I, for one, don't care about the baby and her daughter etc etc as it sounds like tabloid journalism..

Area 51 does exist.

Are you suggesting "Area 51" does NOT exist?

If they were trying to keep this "very private matter" PRIVATE why would she accept the nomination? WHY?

Because she is a career politician faced with a shot at the White House?

If the story is true I don't think it's fair for Gov. Palin and her supporters to think she deserves a pass on this issue. If the story is true she needs to lay her cards on the table, let the people decide whether they think she did the noble thing or not, and then move on. I think attempting to sweep it under the rug in hopes it will go away will do more harm than good.

If it is true I would say that the bigger problem is that the McCain campaign and the Republican Party got caught by surprise here. It makes them look sloppy in their selection of a VP candidate. No?

- Dave

Yes very sloppy. You've got yourself some big IFs there and if all the IFs are proven/confirmed then you are correct on all accounts and I'll write in Hillary for president.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (edited 8/31/2008).]

I like the resident liberals setting back women's rights a few decades now that it's a nasty Republican we're talking about

The same people that made it illegal for employers to ask women about their family situation during hiring now trot it out as a campaign issue.

Who here has asked about any effect on Obama's young children? Why isn't a man subject to those same questions? After all, he'd have far less free time as a President Obama than Palin would as VP.

Nice to see its not only Democrat policy that's stuck in the 60's.

If they where trying to keep this "very private matter" PRIVATE why would she accept the nomination? WHY?

I seem to recall a certain group of people saying something about it being a "Private Matter" when a President was caught under a desk in the Oval Office with his intern & a box of Cubans.

Does privacy not go both ways now?

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 8/31/2008).]

If it's true, the actual snafu itself is no big issue and none of our business. How they handle it though is an issue.

If it is true I would think that if she came out and said:

"It happened, this is how we dealt with it and it's a personal family matter that has nothing to do with my selection as VP. Please concentrate on the issues going forward. Thank you."

Then that should be it and we can go forward with the campaign. If they try and hide/cover it up. That speaks volumes for how that administration would run things if placed in the White House.

We are electing people, human beings, with feelings and flaws and children who can get hurt in the crossfire. Let's not go there people. Your hypocrisy is showing. It is bad enough that the mysogyny that was buried deep in the Democratic party is displaying itself and spinning out of control for all the world to see. But to use human sexuality, which progressives celebrate, as a weapon against one's opponents reveals a "win at all costs" attitude that will come back to bite all Democrats in the end.

Not attractive at all IMO.

Exactly J Dyba! But I still feel we are having a legitimate discussion about the lizard man on the cover of some tabloid rag. I need some conformation from a real (good luck chuck) source before I can take this seriously.

It's either total BS or one of the biggest blunders in political history. If McCain and his handlers missed this and if Palin was not forthcoming with this they have lost my vote, I don't like stupid people.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (edited 8/31/2008).]

I vote BS because teenagers rarely have children with Down's Syndrome. That is usually the effect of aging ovum, typical of someone getting pregnant in their 40's.

Not to mention that she returned to work full time 72 hours after giving premature birth to a handicapped infant.

from the National Institute of Health :

The incidence of Down syndrome rises with increasing maternal age. Many specialists recommend that women who become pregnant at age 35 or older undergo prenatal testing for Down syndrome. The likelihood that a woman under 30 who becomes pregnant will have a baby with Down syndrome is less than 1 in 1,000, but the chance of having a baby with Down syndrome increases to 1 in 400 for women who become pregnant at age 35. The likelihood of Down syndrome continues to increase as a woman ages, so that by age 42, the chance is 1 in 60 that a pregnant woman will have a baby with Down syndrome, and by age 49, the chance is 1 in 12. But using maternal age alone will not detect over 75% of pregnancies that will result in Down syndrome.

True or false, that's about as wacky as it gets. If I was laying money down I would bet on it being total BS and if so it is pretty despicable. If it's not, it would have to be one of the craziest scandals ever. Either way I'd have to see it somewhere more mainstream than a random blog before I would even seriously consider it.

Anyone remember the Push-Poll whisper campaign leveled against McCain during the 2000 GOP primaries? It was rumored he'd fathered a mixed racial child. Pictures of Cindy and John's adopted daughter of Indian descent only fueled the story. It was also speculated that Sen. McCain suffered from some sort of dementia as a result of his captivity in Vietnam. This crap had Carl Rove's fingerprints all over it but of course he's denied having anything to do with it. Just a little reminder for Rick in case he thinks the Dems have a monopoly on this sort of political activity.

A mother does become more likely to bear a Down's syndrome child as she grows older but it is no out of the question for any mother to have a child with Down's syndrome.

Is Gov. Palin had this child knowing it would be a Down's baby, my hat is off to her. However, her position on reproductive choice essentially forces any mother to carry a child to term, like it or not, irregardless of any birth defect that child may have or whatever danger the birth might cause the mother.

McCain is clear about his position on reproductive rights. To him a person should have full human rights at the moment of conception. This sounds very benevolent, but I wonder how it would work legally. Perhaps a National Pregnancy Registry (NPR - ironic) where women of child bearing age could be tested periodically and would have to answer to some authority in the event a pregnancy ended prematurely.
Does anyone have a libertarian solution to making sure pregnancies are not ended illegally? Before abortion becomes completely illegal, and if McCain/Palin wins there's a good chance it could be soon, I'd
like to hear how this is going to be legislated fairly. Surely Rick has given this a lot of thought.

"To him a person should have full human rights at the moment of conception. This sounds very benevolent, but I wonder how it would work legally."

It would be a nightmare. Every choice a pregnant woman made would be second-guessed and called into question and tragic situations would become the target of bureaucratic investigation.

If you thought Terri Schaivo was entertaining, just wait until you see the government signing off on miscarriages and still-births.

Sorry Bob. That's a pretty weak argument. You could say we should legalize child molestation by the same coin. Alot of it happens behind the veil of family privacy. Does the federal government make unannounced random visits to every household, checking just to make sure nothing funny's going on?

I'd say you've pretty much already thrown search and seizure out the window if you're saying having a federal prohibition on anything enables the government to investigate however it sees fit.

Again, weak sauce, Bridgier. The main effect would be legit doctors would no longer perform abortions, which would cut abortion at least 90%. You wouldn't have to investigate anything medically, other than charges of providers offering illegal services.

"This gets to me for many reasons. But to use a child born with birth defects as a campaign gimmick is probably the lowest I've seen in politics in a long long time."

I agree that using a child born with birth defects as a campaign issue is wrong. Why is the left, who always claims to be morally and intellectually superior, doing this? These are talking points started by from the Obama campaign that were initially spread by ABC's Jon Roberts. The left should be ashamed for stooping to this level.

As the older brother of a Downs Syndrome child, I can tell you they usually require very little additional care from a "normal" child, whatever that is and can lead a fairly routine life. They can easily become just part of the "gang".

If life doesn't begin at conception, why wear a condom?

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (edited 8/31/2008).]

Who from the Obama campaign started these talking points, Richard?

Why wear a condom? Because you don't want to get someone pregnant, pass on or contract an STD. Many other birth control methods have side effects. I suppose you think sex should only happen with the intent of conceiving a child. Welcome to the real world Richard. The urge is strong and it will always be the woman burdened with pregnancy. I suppose women can't be trusted to make an important choice like this on their own so we should let McCain/Palin do it for them.

Rick. You're wandering into Shipley-like territiories.

Seriously, apply your logic elsewhere. Obama says he wants to ban AK-47's (actually he wants to ban anything semi-automatic) Is he going to go house to house to make sure nobody has them?

Well golly gee Rick, lets then apply your AK-47 logic to abortion. If it can be done in the privacy of one's home, you won't touch it? Do you think crystal meth should be illegal? If i's illegal does that mean we have to do a house-to-house to make sure no one has any?

By the way, Kacey and Amorette! You do realize if the tables were turned, and this strange story was happening to the Obama family, KyleRick(and the GOP) would never, ever, ever have brought this up!

hey here is an interesting reaction to Palin by Diddy...warning language is colorful

http://www.youtube.com/wa...press.com/

Diddy for Secretary of State!

Crazy pregnancy accusations and family values aside:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/a...YF3Kypg9IF

Sounds like she was for the "Bridge to Nowhere" before she was against it. The classic flip-flop.

[This message has been edited by Bob Netherton (edited 8/31/2008).]

If it can be done in the privacy of one's home, you won't touch it? Do you think crystal meth should be illegal? If i's illegal does that mean we have to do a house-to-house to make sure no one has any?

I think you forgot which side of this argument you're on Bob

By the way, Kacey and Amorette! You do realize if the tables were turned, and this strange story was happening to the Obama family, KyleRick(and the GOP) would never, ever, ever have brought this up!

I don't know, this seems just as out there as the whole Obama birth certificate thing. Don't remember making hay on that.

Is the Pregnancy thing really such a big issue? There are more interesting and relevant things to consider.
**************************************************************
Yesterday was John McCain's 72nd birthday. If elected, he'd be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And after months of slamming Barack Obama for "inexperience," here's who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.
Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.1

Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2

She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3

Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4

She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.5

She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species-she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6

How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.7

We asked some Alaska citizens what the rest of us should know about their governor. The response was striking. Here's a sample:

She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. -Rose M., Fairbanks, AK

She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She's a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. -Christine B., Denali Park, AK

As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. -Karen L., Anchorage, AK

Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.-Sherry C., Anchorage, AK

She's vehemently anti-choice and doesn't care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. -Marina L., Juneau, AK

I think she's far too inexperienced to be in this position. I'm all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn't done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain's part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he'll get our vote by putting "A Woman" in that position.-Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK

So Governor Palin is a staunch anti-choice religious conservative. She's a global warming denier who shares John McCain's commitment to Big Oil. And she's dramatically inexperienced.
In picking Sarah Palin, John McCain has made the religious right very happy. And he's made a very dangerous decision for our country.
In the next few days, many Americans will be wondering what McCain's vice-presidential choice means.


Sources:

1. "Sarah Palin," Wikipedia, Accessed August 29, 2008
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
2. "McCain Selects Anti-Choice Sarah Palin as Running Mate," NARAL Pro-Choice America, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=1
3. "Sarah Palin, Buchananite," The Nation, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=2

4. "'Creation science' enters the race," Anchorage Daily News, October 27, 2006
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=3
5. "Palin buys climate denial PR spin-ignores science," Huffington Post, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=4
6. "McCain VP Pick Completes Shift to Bush Energy Policy," Sierra Club, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=5
"Choice of Palin Promises Failed Energy Policies of the Past," League of Conservation Voters, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=6
"Protecting polar bears gets in way of drilling for oil, says governor," The Times of London, May 23, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=7
7 "McCain met Palin once before yesterday," MSNBC, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r...EtAHtx&t=8

here's who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.

Replace right-wing with left-wing and the only difference I see is some mayoral experience and the heartbeat.

She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today.

I honestly can't believe the Obamanation has the cajones to make this argument.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 8/31/2008).]

You'll also notice I never said anything about this bombshell on who Obama's REAL parents are.

http://www.maniacworld.co...ooper.html

I can't argue with that one, Rick.

Definitely a moment for the history books.

I saw another shocking headline:

"McCain Taps Alaskan Governor"

I hope Cindy doesn't mind.

Maybe McCain's hoping to save some of the national cash by getting a woman in the VP slot. After all, he doesn't think women deserve the same pay as men for the same job!

I wonder about a woman who would accept a position with McCain after his horrid statements about women being less than men.

Why wear a condom? Because you don't want to get someone pregnant, pass on or contract an STD. Many other birth control methods have side effects. I suppose you think sex should only happen with the intent of conceiving a child. Welcome to the real world Richard. The urge is strong and it will always be the woman burdened with pregnancy. I suppose women can't be trusted to make an important choice like this on their own so we should let McCain/Palin do it for them.

My point was that human life always starts at the point of conception. It is not some biological mass that might turn into a corn plant, a donkey, or an elephant. The current notion that early in the pregnancy it is okay to dispose of the "biological mass" for whatever reason is wrong, it is still a human life. Women do have a choice. They can say (usually- not talking about the 1% pregnant through sexual assault) say no to the "activity" that will get them pregnant, or use birth control. If they are unable to do this and then want to discard the human life within them, then government has a right and a responsibility to protect that life.

Who is Sarah Palin? Here's some basic background:

She was elected Alaska's governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.1

She still has more experience than Obama with 143 days in the senate. If Obama is qualified with his limited experience to be PRESIDENT, she is certainly qualified to be VP.

Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2

She is NOT anti-choice. She simply believes that women need to make those "choices about their bodies" sooner in the "process". Abstinence (birth control is a form of abstinence) works every time it is tried.

She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3

So did I. How does this disqualify her to be VP?

Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4

I find it ironic that you want "choice" where abortion is concerned, but want to limit the choices of those children who "survive" in what they are taught about human origins. Why not teach creationism along with the other THEROY?

She's doesn't think humans are the cause of climate change.5

Where the proof that we are the cause of climate change? There are 31,000 scientist who have signed a petition that would agree with her point of view. How is what you believe about "global warming" relevant to the qualifications for VP? If she believed the hoax that is "global warming" and the earth begin cooling off would she then be disqualified?

She's solidly in line with John McCain's "Big Oil first" energy policy. She's pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won't be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species-she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6

So you like paying $4.00+ for gasoline? We need to drill early and often for our own oil. We need an energy policy focused on becoming self-sufficient and independent. Maybe someday we can power the world with solar and wind. When that day occurs there will likely be people upset about "Big Solar" and "Big Wind". Until that day comes, our lives and economy are dependent on carbon based fuels. Sounds like she is pretty realistic to me.

A picture of a very pregnant Palin thereby debunking the vicious rumor

No no no, Howdy. Right this very moment the progressive feminists on sites like the KOS and DU are poring over photographs of a 16-year old girl, studying every curve to determine whether she looks preggers enough for their derangement. Our resident old-school ERA'ers join in the fray when it suits their politics.

Issues oriented, they tell you. Issues oriented.

Well I guess, this closes the case, but not the way you might expect.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/n...s_palin_dc

There is a report today that the 17 year old daughter of Sahra Palin is in fact currently pregnant. She must be a baby making machine. I guess it is possible that it is her second baby but I'm guessing that she just pregnant putting her parents in the same boat as a lot of other parents have been in.

From world class scandal to just another pregnant teen, bummer.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (edited 9/1/2008).]

MSNBC is now reporting that Gov. Palin's seventeen-year-old daughter, Bristol Palin, is currently "about five months pregnant".

http://firstread.msnbc.ms...18541.aspx

Apparently this is Gov. Palin's response to the "Trig is not her baby" claims... not possible, little Bristol is pregnant with a different baby.

- Dave

Nice to see how well "abstinence only" worked in the Palin family! Yup, if you tell kids not to have sex until they are married it completely solves the problem of pregnancy before marriage. Kids always listen to their parents and never disobey.

Oh, wait. . .

Amorette, how do you know what Palin's views on sex education are?

Seems to me that most the time when we hear you guys say "abstinence only" it really means "dared mention the word abstinence once"

Anywho, it looks to me like you're exaggerating her position just a little

http://dwb.adn.com/news/p...2233c.html
Palin said last month that no woman should have to choose between her career, education and her child. She is pro-contraception and said she's a member of a pro-woman but anti-abortion group called Feminists for Life.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 9/1/2008).]

Like it has never happened to a family that preaches safe sex and birth control on a daily basis. I am glad people can find joy in the troubles of others, it must make there situation seem more bearable.

The comment below from the "iReport" page that was originally posted seems fitting to me. I wonder how many obstetricians would tell an 8-months pregnant (high-risk pregnancy) patient who claims to be leaking amniotic fluid and feeling slight contractions to go ahead and go give your speech then board a commercial airliner for an 8-hour plus flight. That doesn't sound like good judgment on the part of the doctor nor Governor Palin.

But, "You can't have a fish picker from Texas." [Todd Palin]

greginga, 18 hours ago:

There is only one indisputable fact in this discussion: Sarah Palin, nominee for president of the US (after 72 year old Mac dies) told us all that she was giving a keynote speech in Dallas when her water broke. She was a 44 year old mother expecting a Downs Syndrome child, a very risky pregnancy by all the statistics that people keep posting. This pro life extremist who wants to outlaw ANYTHING that would harm an unborn child, then finished the 30 minute speech, took a 45 minute ride to the airport (bypassing one of the nation's formost child care hospitals) then got on an airplane without informing the staff that she was in labor (because she would not have been permitted to fly). 8 hours and two flights later, she landed in Alaska (Fairbanks, I think?) again bypassing Alaska's best medical facility for premature births. She drives 35 miles into the middle of nowhere to a facility that's been described as a "family clinic" with only limited equipment. If a regular citizen had shown this kind of irresponsibility and the child had died, under the legislation they proposed, that mother could be held for MURDER. Now all of you who can't believe that the daughter could have had the baby, please understand that I can't believe THIS story. And that's what she has TOLD us! Either she is a liar covering up a deeper truth,or an EXTREMELY irresponsible mother with the utmost in poor judgement! Either choice is disturbing. I've put up with 8 years of lies and bad judgement. The rest is admittedly conjecture, but it is the logical people trying to explain how this ludicrous tale that SHE told us COULD have happened and as "out there" as the accusations are, they actually make more sense! Sure, there could be another explaination, if so PLEASE tell me BEFORE I cast my ballot!

Dude, did you really just post a user comment from the same crackpot page that brought out this whole wacked out conspiracy theory in the first place?

How does this random person, or IReport.com for that matter know anything about any of the details of any of this.

Considering the left is ablaze, looking at pictures from 2006 for evidence of a girl being pregnant and delivering in 2008 says all we need to know. The sheer desperation of it all makes me more confident of a McCain presidency than I've ever been.

I just finished reading the story about Palin's 17 year old daughter being pregnant. It really sounds like this woman needs to spend more time with her family. Priorities. It's simple.

By the way, any woman who has done the things this woman has done should not be holding office where so many lives are in her hands!

Wow, so all this we've been taught about women not being asked to choose between family and career.. a load of crap?

Who knew all along it was just a cheap political stunt.

Sort of ironic that the "out there" story presents a more responsible image of a mother than the "water broke - gave speech - drove 1/2 hour - bypassed world class neonate care units - flew cross country - drove some more - bypassed another advanced neonatal care unit - gives birth at small clinic to Down's child one month premature - then went back to work in a couple of days" story.

Maybe she was actually being "Unswiftboated" by the left.

Behold sexism is alive and well in the democratic party....who knew....Geezzzzzzz

So if we bitch (oops) complain about a woman candidate we're sexist!?

Keep in mind the excuse Mr. Palin gave for the above child-bearing gyrations is avoiding bearing a Texan child. I'd go through a lot to keep my kid from being called Texan but that was a little extreme.

It is fairly easy to criticize after the fact, any decision a person makes...No mental genius required, but to just stick to the issues of the parties platform and which make sense for you and which don't apparently requires a tad more restraint...There are many many rumors about Obama which haven't been addressed and I fail to see why this lady is subjected to this now..The issues are what are important to me at least...all these stories so far about Palin just make her seem more human to me which is good...Obviously she supports her family and her daughter and that is great IMO...

Trig's birth story was covered by the Anchorage Daily News so that's where the story is coming from:

http://www.adn.com/626/story/382864.html

Again, I ask, do you think it's good judgment on the part of the obstetrician and the expectant parents to behave in this manner? I don't. I think the Alaska State Medical Board should reprimand the doctor for not advising her patient to seek immediate medical care in Texas.

- Dave

Even if all the reports of her trip home from Dallas are correct and factual the decision was hers to make. She is the one who knows how her body is reacting and what she is capable of doing under the circumstances. It appears she made the trip, delivered the baby and all went well. Apparently she made the right choice for her at the time and isn't it all about my body my choice. Sound like she is a woman who knows her capabilities and acted with that knowledge to make the decisions she did.

At any rate this whole thread has been full of speculation and "what if's" from the start and should now die a miserable death.

"Good evening from the flight deck, ladies and gentlemen, this is your first officer speaking. As some of you near the front of the aircraft may already be aware we are having a medical emergency onboard and we are going to have to make an unscheduled landing in Prince Rupert. The good news is that at 1829 meters Prince Rupert's runway is long enough that we should have no trouble making a safe landing. The bad news is that at 1829 meters Prince Rupert's runway is not long enough for us to safely take off with a loaded aircraft. We will be making arrangements for bus transport to Prince George where an alternate flight will be arranged to take you on to Anchorage. You should arrive in Anchorage approximately 48 hours after your scheduled arrival time."

You're just Horizon (Alaskan) Airlines bit one too many times.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (edited 9/1/2008).]

I'm guessing if it were my wife, and she were 1000 miles away from home, she'd do every thing in her power to make it back home for the delivery so her family could be a part.

And the article you posted put things a little more rationally than the "she wanted her baby dead (if it was hers in the first place)" angle you guys seem to be taking.

Palin was in Texas last week for an energy conference of the National Governors Association when she experienced signs of early labor. She wasn't due for another month.

Early Thursday -- she thinks it was around 4 a.m. Texas time -- she consulted with her doctor, family physician Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, who is based in the Valley and has delivered lots of babies, including Piper, Palin's 7-year-old.

Palin said she felt fine but had leaked amniotic fluid and also felt some contractions that seemed different from the false labor she had been having for months.

"I said I am going to stay for the day. I have a speech I was determined to give," Palin said. She gave the luncheon keynote address for the energy conference.

Palin kept in close contact with Baldwin-Johnson. The contractions slowed to one or two an hour, "which is not active labor," the doctor said.

"Things were already settling down when she talked to me," Baldwin-Johnson said. Palin did not ask for a medical OK to fly, the doctor said.

More tellingly, if she'd decided right after the flight that she didn't want the baby and had his brains sucked out on the way through the birth canal, you'd say we were in no position to judge (so long as she wasn't Republican)

This sudden concern for the welfare and comfort of the unborn is mindboggling.

*SOB*

You Republicans are so persecuted.

It just makes me want to weep for you, I feel so badly...

Rick, I'm concerned about Palin using sound judgment because I consider sound judgment to be an important attribute for the president of the United States.

From the same ADN article:

Still, a Sacramento, Calif., obstetrician who is active in the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said when a pregnant woman's water breaks, she should go right to the hospital because of the risk of infection. That's true even if the amniotic fluid simply leaks out, said Dr. Laurie Gregg.

"To us, leaking and broken, we are talking the same thing. We are talking doctor-speak," Gregg said.

Rick, I'm concerned about Palin using sound judgment because I consider sound judgment to be an important attribute for the president of the United States.

Please, you are not. This started as a wacked-out conspiracy story saying the child wasn't even hers, which you raised as a key campaign "judgement" issue. Now that's fallen apart so you're moving on to the circumstances of the birth. We all know you'll find something to criticize, because you want to elect Obama. That's fine. But throwing decades worth of what you've told us about "equal rights" under a bus in the process is just a little much.

At least you're making people see that these identity politics ploys you guys trot out every year are just that... politics. We're really starting to shake the foundations now. Democrats had better be careful.

Besides, I'm not sure Palin consulted with every OBGYN in the country before making the decision... she consulted with the only one who mattered at the time, her own. And everything turned out just fine.

And I thought questioning decisions between a woman and her doctor was taboo. Under the Bus! Awesome.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 9/1/2008).]

>>which you raised as a key campaign "judgement" issue.

I did? Where?

I keep thinking that if those parents were really prioritizing parenting, a whole lot of this history in their family would never have happened including risking the premature birth happening on the plane when the pregnancy was very high risk for 3 reasons (maternal age, birth defects in the infant, premature labor). Seems that where the baby was born was more important than risking delivering a premie in the air thousands of miles from home since her water broke in Texas.

Palin told the press when she was about to become governor that there would be one stay home parent. Mr. Palin was shocked, said he never heard such a thing, and continues to be out of town at least 50% of the time. If the teens and the paid caregivers were not there the whole family would fall apart. Wait---looks like it may be anyway.

Holy crap people went nuts over this Palin thing. It's not very often that Rick has this many soft pitches to swing at.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 9/1/2008).]

Here's a conspiracy theory for you. Maybe McCain-Palin spread that rumor about how the downs baby was really the daughter's. Then when the real story of how her daughter is pregnant *now* comes out, it not only makes the other rumor pretty much impossible, but it seems really tame by comparison. As a bonus, a bunch of Democrat attack dogs wind up looking like mean-spirited gossips. Brilliant!

Obama's take on the whole deal:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/P...index.html

Rick... you are worse than a slug slithering in a puddle of beer spilled by a 12 year old Miles City boy who stole a cold one from his father's ice box. PLEASE...Keep Ranting! Oh the injustice!

Where is Dan Rather When we really need him??

But at least Palin is better looking than any other VP hopeful!

heh, heh....naughty librarian.....

My question would be for Hal and anyone else in the land of the Inuit, in the 1 & 1/2 years that Palin's been Governor of Alaska how has she fared? It seems that from all I've seen/heard about her Alaskan's are pretty much happy with the job she's done for them.

She seems to have a little controversy surrounding her but it doesn't seem to be anything that would derail her VP candidacy. So her teenage daughter is pregnant, so what?

So Hal, or anyone else from Alaska, what's the verdict on Sarah Palin?

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 9/1/2008).]

One of my sons-in-law sent this to me. It's on the subject.

Sarah "Barracuda" Palin

Sarah "Barracuda" Palin is a straight shooting, hard charging, get it done gal. She knows when to listen, how to analyze the facts and how to make a decision, then implement the plan. She doesn't do a poll before jumping in with both feet like too many of the Washington types. She has little legislative experience because she has always held the EXECUTIVE position; in private life, as mayor of Anchorage 's largest bedroom community or more recently as Governor of our State. She is a smart, attractive home grown Alaska girl with excellent moral and family values. She can see what needs to be done and does not hesitate to get it done.

One of our State's major problems is that its Capital is in Juneau, 500 miles from the nearest road and 800 air miles from the population base which is Anchorage , Wasilla and Fairbanks . Our legislature and most of the State government is in Juneau and they ALL behave like a bunch of freshmen in a college town. It has been this way since Statehood in 1959. When Sarah moved to Juneau, so did accountability and responsibility When the oil revenue started flying and a barrel of North Slope Crude hit $23.00, these people began spending money like drunken sailors. You can only imagine what was happening when oil hit $100.00 a barrel, about the time Sarah took command. My wife Kathy has first-hand experience with this fiasco, as her father and also her ex-husband were Alaska Legislators who served in Juneau as Senators, Senate President, or members of the State House for a combined period spanning nearly three decades.

About the time Sarah took the HELM as Governor of Alaska, about half of the State legislature was in the pocket of big oil companies or contractors doing big projects for Native Corporations around Alaska , all funded by State oil revenue. Alaska government was nothing but a good old boys club riding the perpetual wave of prosperity. This filtered down from the legislature, through the Department of Natural Resources, Depa rtment of Labor and even spilled in to the Public Safety who are supposed to "preserve and protect".

When Sarah walked into the Governor's Mansion, she promptly dismissed the State Trooper detachment assigned to Governor and had her and her husband's gun case brought in from Wasilla. Then, she got rid of the former Governor's STATE Jet and told legislators that there were no more free rides; they would have to fly Alaska Airlines, just like her and her family if they wanted to travel. Next came the nut cutting (the Barracuda part) the heads that rolled were too numerous to name, but when Sarah finished cleaning house, a number of our legislators ended up in jail on corruption charges, or tendered their resignations along with numerous department heads and those who have been riding the gravy train for way too long, AND THEN SHE HAD LUNCH. By the end of the day, Sarah Palin had saved the people of Alaska millions and has not yet slowed down.

She has truly brought CHANGE to Juneau . I personally know several persons in the private sector in Alaska , that hold her in high esteem. She surrounds herself with smart people, many from my hometown of Anchorage, she listens to them but makes her own decisions. Sarah Palin is a no B.S. politician. It is refreshing that there is such a thing anymore. You want to talk about CHANGE? You should see a before and after picture of the State government in Alaska . That's CHANGE!

Sarah will bring a number of things to the election. I am sure she will appeal to many voters who otherwise could have gone the other direction on election day. The conservative block will not be for Barack. We have their vote. We need what Sarah will bring, first to the election and second, what she will bring to Washington D.C. McCain has been advised well. Let's just hope the American people can get the straight scoop on her in the weeks ahead. This is just the opinion of one Alaska Bush Pilot and Guide, who pays attention to national politics, watches the news and is deathly afraid of the direction our nation is headed. I guarantee that if Sarah gets a chance to dig her spurs into the flanks of the liberal Washington types, they will know that she is in the saddle.



Butch King

Pilot/Guide

If she has a brain in her head she will pick up her toys and go home to Alaska where she is appreciated. It has only been four days and the amount of personal attacks have been unprecedented in my 50 years. RUN SARAH RUN let the soulless bastards in charge fight it out amongst themselves.

On a up note Barack Obama sounded sincere when he spoke on the "scandal" yesterday and told all his staff in no uncertain terms that this kind of crap is off limits. I think this is the first thing he's said I felt was true and heart felt. Now if he could just convince his minions and the batch of Obama groupies we call the national media we could get down to issues.

"I'm guessing if it were my wife, and she were 1000 miles away from home, she'd do every thing in her power to make it back home for the delivery so her family could be a part."

I doubt your wife would do anything quite so abjectly reckless and selfish as this.

I think pretty much anyone who has gone through the nerve wracking process of having children is scratching their heads over a decision to fly while in the midst of early-labor. That's pretty reckless as Bridgier said.

Reckless as in Obama's mama didn't fly back to Hawaii from Kenya.

2004 the Fear Election

2008 the Sympathy Election

Who do you feel sorry for the most?

Was that the glue talking again Richard? Because it didn't really make any sense.

Also, I'd think ANYONE who:

1) Just had a baby
2) that had down's syndrome
3) And had a 17 year old daughter
4) That was about to have a baby of her own
5) And just accepted the VP nomination
6) And the amount of campaigning that would go along with this,

needs to get their priorities in order.

Family values means taking care of your family.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (edited 9/2/2008).]

I doubt your wife would do anything quite so abjectly reckless and selfish as this.

Don't agree with your appraisal. She's had enough kids, she probably feels very comfortable with what her body is telling her in the process. And her Doctor seemed fine with it.

So anyway is abortion "abjectly reckless and selfish?"

Also, I'd think ANYONE who:

1) Just had a baby
2) that had down's syndrome
3) And had a 17 year old daughter
4) That was about to have a baby of her own
5) And just accepted the VP nomination
6) And the amount of campaigning that would go along with this,

needs to get their priorities in order.

Family values means taking care of your family.

First off, to some "Family Values" in this scenario means committing to raise another child as part of the family. To others, it means a quick call and office visit to Planned Parenthood, so that nobody has to be "punished with a baby" I'd hesitate to judge the first more harshly than the second.

Second, from what I've heard, Palin's husband has been staying home with the family for the most part since she was elected Governor. Is the male parent at home not enough? Or are those naked kitchen-confined piggies required to have nail polish at all times?

Rick?

From what you've heard he's stayed home? Heard from whom? I heard he has belonged to some wing-nut third party. Have you heard that?

http://dwb.adn.com/news/politics/story/8924080p-8824177c.html

Until recently, he earned hourly wages as a production operator in a BP-run facility that separates oil from gas and water. Palin was making between $100,000 and $120,000 a year before he went on leave in December to make more time for his family and avoid potential conflicts of interest. London-based BP is heavily involved in the gas pipeline negotiations with his wife's administration.

Rick, I'm still waiting for you to explain why you made the claim that I said:

>>which you raised as a key campaign "judgement" issue.

If the story is true I don't think it's fair for Gov. Palin and her supporters to think she deserves a pass on this issue. If the story is true she needs to lay her cards on the table, let the people decide whether they think she did the noble thing or not, and then move on.

From conspiracy theory attempt #1 above.

Oh, Rick, you poor, persecuted thing, you. I made no claim as to the veracity of the accusation only that if there was any truth to the matter that Palin would be best to lay her cards on the table, let the people decide, and move on. Apparently that is exactly what she is doing.

And I never used the term, "judgement", as you implied.

- Dave

Unfortunately, the rumor-mill usually washes its hands by saying "but I didn't say it was true..."

On judgement, we could haggle meaning all day. I see questioning this (make-believe) issue of doing the Noble thing as a judgement issue. At least as far as it fitting into any sort of VP litmus test.

I thought you had said judgement then, but it was actually from a later post. Sorry for my confusion

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 9/2/2008).]

And sorry, the rumor-mill usually washes its hands by saying "but I didn't say it was true..."

You make this comment as if to suggest that I am "the rumor-mill". I find that insulting.

- Dave

Not trying to insult. Sorry

I just think when it comes to these kinds of conspiracy theories, judgement should probably wait for evidence.

"Family values means taking care of your family."

Did I mention that Nancy Pelosi has five children?

That's why she need's the big government jet to fly back and forth from Washington to San Francisco. The little government jet just won't do....

And did I mention that John Edwards has a third nipple?

And that's relevent how?

Also:

"First off, to some "Family Values" in this scenario means committing to raise another child as part of the family."

Indeed it does Rick. However, I've found it's an easy distinction for those people who've never been in that situation to make however.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (edited 9/3/2008).]

Dave, I can't imagine anyone blaming you for this rumor or the spreading of the rumor, you brought up only legitimate questions. It's crystal clear that the rumor as far as MilesCity.com is concerned was provided by Amorette who's journalistic intuition also led her to believe it to be true.

Palin does seem to be the journalist's feast of the week so I can't blame Amorette too much for falling in line with the rest of the sharks. How her husband has not gone off on a few dozen of the sneaky, lying bastards I don't understand.

Chuck - are you referring to Palin's husband or Amorette's?

I'd like to hear what Palin's husband has to say about Alaska's third party, to which he has belonged.

I was referring to Palin husband, sorry about the confusion. I can't imagine sitting by as a husband and a father and not being at the end of my rope with all the abuse my loved ones have taken in the past few days.

Possibly Amorette husband has reason to be equally at the end of his rope, I don't know.

[This message has been edited by Chuck Schott (edited 9/3/2008).]

I'd like to know why Republicans seem to be so flustered by their candidate for vice president. Even Fox News is questioning the vetting of Governor Palin. It's not just the "liberal" media that is asking questions.

- Dave

No, the liberal press stopped asking questions and starting making up stories a few days ago.

See, that's exactly my point. Why so defensive?

"And that's relevent how?"

As you clearly didn't understand, it's relevent as the context of the post was one persons opinion on how another should set their priorities; e.g. that person should be home with the children and not on the campaign trail. This standard, of course, has never been applied to Pelosi, Ferraro, Clinton or any of the other emancipated Democratic women engaging in the same activity.

There is no double standard here though....

Blow it out your ass! Hows that for defensive.

Palin certainly would not have been my choice for VP but she's it whether I like it or not. I'm saying she deserves to be treated fairer by all the press, yes all the press. I don't see the same treatment when it comes to other candidates in the same race. Where were the questions about Biden's ability to care for his family while serving in the Senate after his wife's death? Same thing is it not?

The nature of the press in this country makes it impossible to get a fair look at both sides of most any issue/person they report on.

And if you don't think the "it's not her baby story" in not the meanest political trick since this train wreck began you are wrong.

It's right up there with The Shrub's "McCain had a biracial baby and maybe he's mentally impaired from his imprisonment in Nam" angle in the 2000 GOP presidential primary.

Palin has been criticized for everything from hiring a lobbyist to get millions in earmarks for her town (McSame LOVES earmarks), supporting the "Bridge to Nowhere" (McSame just loved that, too), shady business dealings and ultra right-wing social positions. The GOP whiners have managed to frame it as purely "You're attacking her family!" and "What a double standard! Pelosi has kids, too!" To criticize her for dragging her 17 y/o daughter through this is a valid point.

Family problems aside - this VP pick is a train wreck. The network media coverage is the least of the problem. I think they've gone easy on her. It's the Bloggers that are coming up with the juicy stuff. But it's just so crazy, it'll probably work. The GOP never lost an election because they underestimated the intelligence of their voting base.

McSame has it made, too. Like on Leno the other night when Jay made a joke about McSame's 1/2 dozen houses. McSame replied by reminding Jay that he'd been a POW for 5 years and didn't have a house then. Every time he gets backed into a corner he can pull that out. I wonder if it works with traffic cops?

Where were the questions about Biden's ability to care for his family while serving in the Senate after his wife's death? Same thing is it not?

First off, is it the "press" questioning the wisdom of Palin being VP when she has mommy chores or is it random bloggers, windbags, and milescity dot commies?

Second, how old are Joe's kids? I didn't realize he had a brand new baby at home. [You and what-about-Nancy-Pelosi "Jim Brady" made me say that -- it seems like an obvious flaw in your logic to me.]

And, to be clear, I never questioned Palin's right to be VP and be a mom. She can farm the little critters out to a nanny 7x24 for all I care.

I did question the wisdom of waiting to deliver a speech and then hopping on a damn-near cross-continent flight on a commercial airliner ~12 hours after her water broke and she started having labor contractions. That doesn't seem smart to me. If you read that Anchorage Daily News article it appears to me people were already questioning the wisdom of that stunt back in April -- long before most Americans even knew who Sarah Palin was.

- Dave

So Nancy Pelosi has five children and had to have the big jet to fly. Our Governor and Vice Presidential nominee has five children and SOLD THE PREVIOUS GOVERNOR'S BIG JET ON EBAY and drives her SUV back and forth.

So what.

Belinda-

Palin drives her SUV back and forth to where? You can't get anywhere from Juneau. I know, I've been there by ferry and by plane. She ain't driving too far from home!

As far as using Alaska Air, that's swell, but they only go to the major cities in AK. I am SURE she hires local bush and charter flights to outlaying towns. That's fine by me, but it does not mean she cut her travel budget.

When Joe Biden took his first Senate term his two boys where pre-school age and had just lost their Mother and Sister, some might say they needed a stay at home Father more than most at that time.

Dave, Most everyone I talk to says the same thing you do, it was an irresponsible to make that trip to Alaska under those circumstances. I certainly see that point but contend it was her right to make that decision and bet there has been a time or two since that day she has questioned her own thinking in the matter. I remember a late night trip from the 1145 club in Billings to Red Lodge that the entire population of the Warm Springs mental institution would have found ill advised. It's a good thing neither one of those chuckle heads are running for ANYTHING.

When Joe Biden took his first Senate term his two boys where pre-school age and had just lost their Mother and Sister, some might say they needed a stay at home Father more than most at that time.

I don't know the details behind this but it sounds like he was a single dad. Had he stayed home who would have paid the bills? Welfare? Gasp!

"First off, to some "Family Values" in this scenario means committing to raise another child as part of the family."

Indeed it does Rick. However, I've found it's an easy distinction for those people who've never been in that situation to make however.

You're right that "Walked a mile in his shoes" is an important consideration when passing personal judgement on someone else's decision...

now let's rewind

Also, I'd think ANYONE who:

1) Just had a baby
2) that had down's syndrome
3) And had a 17 year old daughter
4) That was about to have a baby of her own
5) And just accepted the VP nomination
6) And the amount of campaigning that would go along with this,

needs to get their priorities in order.

How many miles do you think you've walked here?

I don't know the details behind this but it sounds like he was a single dad. Had he stayed home who would have paid the bills? Welfare? Gasp!

Well, he could have kept a job closer to home, as you're demanding Palin should do. Remember, she's still working. But we're missing the main point. Her husband is already staying home. She has said that would likely continue if she were elected. Not good enough? Is staying home woman's work?

STAND BY SARAH: SHE'S A WINNING PICK

By DICK MORRIS & EILEEN MCGANN

Published in the The New York Post on September 3, 2008


The dominant question at the GOP convention is: Will John McCain make the huge mistake of abandoning Sarah Palin?

Some claim he made a mistake in choosing the Alaska governor. My bet is the reverse - that she'll turn out to be a big win.

Even if I'm wrong, dropping her now would doom him in November. If McCain lets baseless, sexist smears set his course, he'd turn all the good Palin has already done for him, and should do in the weeks ahead, into a negative - demoralizing the GOP base and losing independents.

Understand: Palin is under attack because she was such a good choice.

Remember the Democrats' central charge on McCain - "He's a Bush clone." By choosing Palin, something George Bush would never have done, McCain showed how really different he is.

The old ground rule for picking a running mate was to help the ticket carry a particular state. But Bill Clinton changed the rules when he tapped Al Gore in 1992. Clinton likely would've carried Tennessee anyway, but the choice of Gore emphasized the most important feature of Clinton's candidacy: He was from a new generation and represented a new outlook.

And so Sarah Palin reinforces the most important aspect of the McCain candidacy: Despite 30 years in Washington, he's an outsider and a dedicated foe of corruption and conflict of interest in government. He's the one who stands up against pork, earmarks and lobbyists and backs campaign-finance reform.

Palin brings the same kind of credentials to the ticket. When she speaks tonight and emphasizes her record of reform and her commitment to bring ethical standards to Washington, she'll strike a deeply resonant chord throughout the nation.

None of the "scandal" reflects ill on Sarah herself. They're the kind of family issues that bedevil many American women. That the media accords such prominence to them shows how fundamentally differently we treat women and men in politics.

Should she not serve as vice president because her daughter is pregnant? Or her husband had a DWI 20 years ago? Or her sister married a state trooper, who shocked his 11-year-old son with a Tazer, leading relatives and friends to think he should be fired? Or because she exercised her legal right to fire the head of the State Police when he saw no reason to fire the trooper?

Palin has an extensive public record - with more executive experience than Barack Obama or Joe Biden (or McCain, for that matter). She should be judged on her record, same as a man. If she is, she'll survive these charges in great style.

And then the backlash will set in. Tens of millions of women have had to confront life experiences akin to Palin's.

After years of electing plasticized creations of political consultants, we have the chance to vote for a real person with real peoples' problems. In standing by her, McCain speaks volumes about his attitude toward women and his empathy for those who face family troubles. His loyalty illustrates not just his decency, but his sensitivity and good sense.

All of which illustrates the most fundamental point of this convention: That John McCain is no George W. Bush.

Lee,

The problem I see with Palin is SHE is a Bush clone as well. Falling right in line with standard Republican philosophy. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but as far as her politics, her political record, and her history in Governor's office, she's a typical conservative.

I would not hold having kids and working against her. I have no problem with her inhaling marijuana when she was younger. Her daughter is pregnant- that can happen to anyone with kids. She's from a small town; that's fine by me, you don't have to be from a big city or a populous state to be smart and make informed and intelligent decisions. She's just eye candy?.... well, I did read many of the buttons on GOP members in the crowd last night- plenty of "Alaska-We have the hottest governor" and Palin-Hottest VP ever!" I find that sexist and distasteful. I agree she's attractive, but that's not a qualification for running the country.

As for the scandals, we will all have to wait and see how the law plays out in Alaska.

I don't find her executive experience of much value. As I've said in another post Alaska is the only state to have a regular budget surplus and $29,000,000,000.00, that's twenty nine billion, in the bank; and that number is growing daily. When the budget shows red, the state legislature and the governor merely shift a bit of the fund into the general budget. I know people in Alaska. They love getting their annual checks, many are in pretty remote places and aren't bothered by government and most make a pretty good living. What's to complain about in Alaska? The governor of Alaska since the pipeline was put into use has always been popular- regardless of party affiliation. It's a weak argument to say she's got any difficult executive experience.

She did give a speech that fired up the GOP core. Good for her.

I'm waiting for the debates where she does not have a teleprompter and a pre-written dialog. Does anyone believe she actually wrote her own speech, or for that matter that any candidates write their own speeches?

No and no.

Just what we need:
http://www.huffingtonpost...23205.html

Well, he could have kept a job closer to home, as you're demanding Palin should do.

I did? Rick, you lose credibility with me real fast with your habit of putting words in my mouth that I never said. I know it is convenient for you to do this when trying to promote your warped view on the American political landscape but I would appreciate it if you would stop.

- Dave

Sorry David. Sometimes it's just hard to distinguish between a Devil's advocate and just a plain old regular advocate.

"Even if all the reports of her trip home from Dallas are correct and factual the decision was hers to make. She is the one who knows how her body is reacting and what she is capable of doing under the circumstances. It appears she made the trip, delivered the baby and all went well. Apparently she made the right choice for her at the time and isn't it all about my body my choice. Sound like she is a woman who knows her capabilities and acted with that knowledge to make the decisions she did."
I agree completely-PROCHOICE all the way!

I agree Lee! Just as Gov. Palin stated, the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mother is the lipstick! I think she meant that as warning to all the under acheiver in Washington D.C. on Jenkin's Hill (for you people that might not know what sits on Jenkin's Hill, it is the Capital Building).

Woe to the politians who did not catch that one!

So if I put lipstick on a pitbull, I end up with a Hockey Mom?

What you do with your pitbull is nobody's business but your own.

So are people who study VP candidates now called "Palintologist's"?

Yeah, let's throw out those bums in Washington who have spent the last eight years dropping into a huge deficit and getting us involved in a ridiculous war! Let's bring in new people with new ideas, not the same old Washington types!

Um. . . .

Does anyone see what is wrong with this picture when it is the Republicans talking?

Heeheehee.

Just don't get the Santorum anywhere it might not come out, right Rick?

There's a reason you barely saw GWB or heard him mentioned throughout the convention. Some even suggested that the hurricane on Monday was a blessing because it gave GW a reason to not show his face at the convention at all.

Just don't get the Santorum anywhere it might not come out, right Rick?

A tribute to Dan Savage, Bridgier?

RIDICULOUS WAR?!
My God people, what short term memories you have! I dare you to go to New York and say that to the families that lost children, husbands, wives, policemen, firemen in 9-11. How many lives were lost in the matter of minutes ON OUR HOME TURF!

Amorette that is one of the coldest, insensative things you have ever typed! Let's turn the tables, if your loved ones were MURDERED in this fashion would it still be ridiculous? Well you did not have anyone murdered and you have zero losses so this allows you write those people off just like the dust on your shoe?

Do you think that those terrorist will not come back if we quite now? Open your flippin eyes! Those people hate America and its inhabitants, yes that includes you, me, everyone. These people have taken an oath to kill the infildel, guess who they are reffering to, that's right, us! They will never go away until we hunt down every one those SOBs and exterminate them from the face of the earth.

Do you have children? They hate them too! They will not lose any sleep over killing your children, my children, the mayor's children, or anyone elses children and they will not stop either.

Ridiculous war, what a dump thing to say! Disgusting!

Um, we went to war with Iraq. Iraq had NOTHING to do with September 11. Zip. Nada. Zilch. We attacked the wrong guys. That's why I said it was a ridiculous war. If we were to attack the guys who attacked us, we would have had to attack Saudi Arabia. And we didn't.

Attacking Iraq for September 11 was rather as if we had attacked New Zealand after Pearl Harbor. If you invade a country in response to an attack, you should invade the country that attacked you. Just seems sensible to me.

And when you say "they" hate us, to whom are you referring? A country? A political organization? A religion? Specify who you need to hunt down and hunt them down. Don't just pick countries at random to invade. You waste resources that way and this country is so close to bankruptcy, we can't afford any more mistakes.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (edited 9/5/2008).]

Amorette,
No but guess where the terrorist went to hide? Iraq, Afghanistan where they knew they could hide and have simpathetic supporters. They certainly did not go to Club Med or the Bahammas.

The people who hate us is the Islamic factions that could care less if you lived, like the Alkida. (spelling?) These type of people do not like us and will not like us........ever!

I tell you what, why don't we pull the troops out, then treat the returning military personel like we did with the Vietnam veterns and call them a bunch of baby killers, and throw out the red carpet for all your friends who like to hijack commerial airliners and crash them into U.S. buildings, so you can serve them up some sweet ice tea and give them a big hug and tell them we are sorry for getting mad!

Apparently you have been asleep for the last seven years. So you work at the local news paper, do a little research get yourself up to speed on current events!

It must be nice to go through life with a set of blinders on.

[This message has been edited by Todd Larson (edited 9/6/2008).]

[This message has been edited by Todd Larson (edited 9/6/2008).]

Attacking Iraq for September 11 was rather as if we had attacked New Zealand after Pearl Harbor.

Or Italy

Or Bangladesh!!

"It must be nice to go through life with a set of blinders on"

Indeed.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (edited 9/6/2008).]

Mr. Larson,

You need to educate yourself around the events immediately following the 9/11 attacks. You obviously have no idea who did what where and you sound about intelligent as a 10 year old kid trying to explain how compounded interest works.

Go do some research, THEN form an opinion. It always works best that way.

You waste resources that way and this country is so close to bankruptcy, we can't afford any more mistakes.

Hate to go over this again, but Iraq consumes between 2 and 3% of federal spending. Its like adding an olympic sized indoor pool onto your house, and then blaming your bankruptcy on the cable bill.

Financially, entitlements are our real problem. They keep growing, consume over half the budget, and never go away.

Hey I have book on the subject and it covers the entire gambit of 9-11, it is copyrighted by TAJ Books Limited, 2002 and reprinted in 2003 and distributed by DS-MAX. This is not a novel it is fact and facts with pictures. If you wish to look at it let me know. I will not loan it out to anyone for it is a limited addition, but you can certainly look at it.

It clearly shows those cowardly murdering s.o.b.s, that Amorette seams to keep in high regard, killing inoccent women and children and men who are all Americans that do not matter anymore because the war has turn ugly and people have died and it is unpopular anymore. I say that's a bunch of crap!!!!! They do matter to me!!!! Those cowardly radicals that have to hide amongst inoccent people rather than stand up for what they say they believe in and fight like honorable men, if they do then is the time when I will be silent about 9-11.

You know as well as I do that those cowardly murders will not fight in the open away from inoccent woman and children, so we took the fight to them and when that happens inoccent people will be come casualities of war, fact, and there nothing we can do about that until those cowards stand up and fight with honor.

I salute anyone who maybe reading this who has served in the military or is still there now in the service of their country, you will always be a hero in my books!!! Just remember what you are fighting for, the loss of inoccent lives of women and children that did not have choice!

Just like the Merril Hagard song says, "you start running down our country man, you're walking on the fightin side of me." If you have never served in the armed force then you never understand the pride from the knowledge of the fact you are, at a moments notice, ready to fight for your country and community. The honor comes from the fact you have served for the Greatest Country the world has ever known!

There no such thing as a "riduculous war" people die in war get over it! Hoorah!

[This message has been edited by Todd Larson (edited 9/7/2008).]

[This message has been edited by Todd Larson (edited 9/7/2008).]

There no such thing as a "riduculous war" people die in war get over it! Hoorah!

What would Jesus say?

ABC

I don't know what Jesus would say but I would say I hope Todd is not a product of Miles City public schools.

- Dave

Jesus does not have a particular country that has been attack. Now God on the other hand has used war as a tool for the common good of a nation. So what is the difference, isn't our joint fight against terrorism the good of all nations? Then one can interpret that we are doing the Lord's work in fighting evil? Isn't writen in the book Revelation that in the final hours that Satan will rise up to make war?

Listen, if you want to sit and thump on your Bible and ask "would Jesus say or do that" then go ahead. I am not going to speak for the Almighty, the I am does his own talking!

Attacking Iraq was like an angry mob searching for a neck after a heinous crime. It doesn't necessarily make us safer and it might not even be the right neck. But, golly, it sure makes us feel better in the short term. Especially if they have something we want. The consequences come later.

The Iraq War was the wrong war, a botched war(except for the "spectacular success" of the surge that came years into the war but means increased pressure on our forces),and an expensive war in both treasure and lives.

Strategically, the war has done plenty to align Iraq with Iran, both of which are now ruled by Shia majorities. I've said before that Bush has to slink into Iraq in the dead of night while the leaders of Iran get the red carpet treatment at the airport. Iraq may now be on the road to becoming a strict theocracy like Iran. That won't serve our purposes, and can you think of a better breeding ground for terrorists?

It's hard to argue against 911 being the perfect excuse to invade anywhere with Saddam as the evil dictator(sitting on a pot full of oil) becoming the perfect target.

Apparently it is unpatriotic to sit around and think these thoughts. I guess patriotism means getting in line and going shopping while keeping our mouths shut and our brains on auto-pilot.

Really Dave,
Are you the product of America? Don't you have any sense of patriotism for the people of America? Or you to afraid to stand up for your country and the people who live and died for it? Or do you think that we should not pursue those who murder innocent woman and children? Go ahead and turn the cheek with ABC and see if the cowards won't come back to do it again!

Besides, what does the place of my education come into the subject at hand? Or couldn't you think of anything better to say and you thought you would be insulting?

While we are off the subject how old are you Dave and did you ever serve your country in the military? I am 48 years of age and yes I have served my country, you?

As I said before, the people (terrorist) have taken a religous oath to kill us or die in the attempt. They do care if you think the war is wrong or right, their quest is that you die and it is not open for debate. Why do you think they attack in spurts and not continously engaging their enemy? I will explain it to you, they will wait until the pursuit becomes tiresome and unpopular and then they strike again, just like what is happening right now. How come I am the only person on this site that can see that? Silly question, that's right you are Democrats and you want change, well pull the troops back and you will have a change, sooner than you think!

ABC,
"Hoorah" is a military thing, I would not expect you to understand it.

Todd, you have been a veritable factory of misinformation and errata practically from the moment you started posting on these forums. Your spelling and grammar is sufficiently poor as to make your writing almost unintelligible at times. You have acted immature and rude and have demonstrated a complete lack of social grace. Your audacity in questioning the patriotism of the people posting on these forums is the height of asininity.

Of course this is all just my OPINION.

- Dave

David:

MC.Com is an opinion based board, as it should be. However,most posts that are left or far left of center gather the most attention as being true. Anything posted the opposite is attacked by petty stuff, he or she can't spell, use poor grammer, are belittled by sarcastic responses. Nut cases, Wingnuts et al.

In my experience, not everything is simply black or white, right or wrong, right or left. There is room for all to express their views without being attacked simply because it is contrary to yours or others.

IMHO your post to Todd was the same as some of Rob Shipleys, only in a more polite form.

Only my opinion though. Ike

Todd:

I've blown lots of military men. I definitely understand what "hoorah" means.

ABC

Thanks, Ike. Hey, while I have your attention perhaps you could tell me why everyone is talking about Sarah Palin and not John Edwards?

- Dave

ABC would you be available for a bachelor party in the near future?

Why thank you Dave for your input, I am sorry if I misspell a word or two and I will try to do better so it will make your reading more confortable!

And I apologize if I do not measure up to your social standards, you must be someone really important and have an extreme high position in the inner circle of Miles City's social ring.

But if speaking one's mind is being rude then so be it, the war is not ridiculous and neither are the innocent civilians that paid the price for freedom with there lives. So I do not like it when others call a serious matter such as the war on terrorism ridiculous! I am sorry if that offends anyone but if you or anyone else does not like it, then do not read my posts. If that does not satisfy you, and I know this may sound rash being of your obvious social stature, you can pucker up and kiss my ...!

Sorry, Todd, but your need to apologize goes far beyond grammatical and spelling errors and far beyond me. You might want to start with your pal, "Jimmy", in the County Sanitarian's office whom you disparaged in the "An Unsanitary Condition" thread:

http://milescity.com/foru...9963#56274

or the City Attorney whom you disparaged here:

http://milescity.com/foru...9963#56363

by suggesting "...it is apparent that the health board has the city attorney in their back pocket."

or Amorette, whom you have basically accused on this thread of sympathizing with terrorists because she has questioned the wisdom of the Iraq war. And you back up the rationale for the Iraq war by saying:

Hey I have book on the subject and it covers the entire gambit of 9-11, it is copyrighted by TAJ Books Limited, 2002 and reprinted in 2003 and distributed by DS-MAX. This is not a novel it is fact and facts with pictures. If you wish to look at it let me know. I will not loan it out to anyone for it is a limited addition, but you can certainly look at it.

I guess this titleless book which is in short supply and perhaps only available for viewing in your home is the supreme authority on the Iraq war?

I particularly take offense at how you hint that those who have not served in the armed forces are somehow less patriotic or are lesser citizens than those who have. That doesn't fly with me one bit.

Finally, when you say things like:

Jesus does not have a particular country that has been attack. Now God on the other hand has used war as a tool for the common good of a nation.

That is complete mumbo jumbo to me. I have no idea what you're trying to say.

- Dave

Dave,
I never said I was an extreme authority on the war on terrorism, you just did. I never hinted to any such thing, that is YOUR concept not mine.

Obviously you are reading more than I have typed into every posting. That is "unsanitary" putting words into my mouth that I did not say, or in this case, typed. You could start an epidemic doing that.

As far as the Jesus thing, I merely pointed out how in the world can anyone say for sure what Jesus might say, that is interupting an event for God. Trying to guess what God might say is ridiculous. However, I know God would have never said,"I have blown lots of military men. I definitely know what Hoorah means."

As far as the crack of the Health Board having the city's attorney in their back pocket was wrong and I do apologize, I was just alittle irritated and I was venting, lost my head, being a man of high moral standards I am sure you can understand that?

The book title is called "A Tribute".

So is anything I might of left out so that you are not totally in the dark? Nope that about covers it. Hint: Do not try to put more words into what I type, if I implied something you do like, then express your opinion, but if you want to install your ideas into my opinion, it will not work and you are wasting your time.

Have a nice day!

Todd, my friend, there is one more thing. On the subject of errata:

Just like the Merril Hagard song says, "you start running down our country man, you're walking on the fightin side of me."

I think you meant, "Merle Haggard". He's a fine American country music artist, no doubt. I do have a bit of sad news for you, though. He didn't ever serve in the military. I hope you don't look down on him for that.

But, that song, "Fightin' Side of Me", it is a masterpiece for sure. Here are the complete lyrics for all to enjoy.

- Dave

I hear people talkin' bad,
About the way we have to live here in this country,
Harpin' on the wars we fight,
An' gripin' 'bout the way things oughta be.
An' I don't mind 'em switchin' sides,
An' standin' up for things they believe in.
When they're runnin' down my country, man,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

I read about some squirrely guy,
Who claims, he just don't believe in fightin'.
An' I wonder just how long,
The rest of us can count on bein' free.
They love our milk an' honey,
But they preach about some other way of livin'.
When they're runnin' down my country, hoss,
They're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

Yeah, walkin' on the fightin' side of me.
Runnin' down the way of life,
Our fightin' men have fought and died to keep.
If you don't love it, leave it:
Let this song I'm singin' be a warnin'.
If you're runnin' down my country, man,
You're walkin' on the fightin' side of me.

New T-Shirt slogan: @Miles City.com we specialize in circuitousness!

:nodoughnutforRichard:

Anyone who defines how they view anything by a single book is severely limiting themselves.

However, I know God would have never said,"I have blown lots of military men. I definitely know what Hoorah means."

You are scary.

Regarding Palin's pregnant daughter, I think it's interesting (or two-faced!) that comedian Bill O'Reilly stated that Palin has no responsibility for it because kids don't always listen to their parents but when Britney Spears' little sister got pregnant at 16 it was all her parents' fault. Go John Stewart!!

"that comedian Bill O'Reilly stated that Palin has no responsibility for it because kids don't always listen to their parents but when Britney Spears' little sister got pregnant at 16 it was all her parents' fault. Go John Stewart!!"

Since when is "Bill O'Reilly" a "comedian"? He might be a lot of things... funny isn't one of them!

Are clowns considered comedians?

Now that Kieth Olberman has lost his anchor spot on MSNBC I think him and O'Reilly should get together and make an even more aggressive version of "Hannity and Colmbs" or "Hardball". Can you imagine those two on the same show? I bet there would be blood every episode hehe.

[deleted]

Anyone who defines how they view anything by a single book is severely limiting themselves.

Luckily Obama provided two

Levi, as far Olberman and O'Reilly go - I say we cross our finger and hope that they both are sentenced to house arrest . . . time to be served at Limpaws house.

I think Hannity would be a better match up then O'Reilly. Bill's too worried about what people think to match up well with Olbermann.

"Oblerman and O'Reilly" You bet-I like the idea.Maybe "Wit and Twit" or "Class and Crass" would be better titles..........
Speaking of Alan Coumbs,I wonder what it's like being the one liberal in a sea of conservatists.Oh that's right,we're talking about the "Fair and Balanced" network.

Oh please

Palin seems to be saying that the Republicans totally screwed up the last 8 years and the Republicans should be given a chance to fix it for the next 4.

Anyone buy that idea?

I buy the idea that not all republicans are the same any more than all democrats are the same....what counts is how much the candidates respect the constitution and the amendments like FISA and privacy etc etc....I cannot just paint folks with one large brush as I don't think that is how it is...

"McCain's real running mate is George Bush and the failed
policies of the Republican Party. Even if they are dressed
up in a skirt, lipstick, and Tina Fey glasses."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/sarah-palin-a-trojan-moos_b_124867.html

http://www.thedailyshow.c...ender-card

too funny