Oasis Pool
Posted by Bunny (+145) 13 years ago
Has anyone taken there child to the swimming pool? Now that their is no one in charge at the pool, the kids are not taking care of our only pool. The other day my friend took her kids to the pool and she had seen several things that was not appropriate. There was an boy 8-10 years old that had pooped on the dock, boys on top of the building trying to peek into the womens changing room, pop cans laying all over the beach, and a towel that was orginally white that was laying in the water that turned brown. Today, I took my child to the pool and there was kids lighting fire crackers in the boys changing area. Someone called the police and they stopped; as soon as the police left, they continued. I think people need to talk with there children and teach them their mannors. If this continues, we will not have any pool at all.
Top
founder
Posted by Bart Freese (+927) 13 years ago
We went twice, and that was two times too many.

Maybe if it really gets hot, we'll try to hit it at say 9 a.m.

I understand the mayor and councils desire to keep it open and if what they had in mind happened, it could work. But . . . . .

Time to get the sprinkler out.
Top
supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14965) 13 years ago
I hear that David Hasselhof is looking for work....
Top
Posted by Tootz (+71) 13 years ago
Maybe if the parent's want their children to be safe and be able to swim they should start a group to be at the pool and patrol it. If there is no money to hire someone then you all need to stand up and make sure your children and the neighbors children are safe and have a good swimming experience. After all "It takes a village." So instead of complaining here at the forum about the situation. TAKE CARE OF IT.
Top
supporter
Posted by Shu (+1796) 13 years ago
Sorry to hear this. I'm bringing my family home later this month and I was thinking about taking them to the pool, but if kids are pooping on the dock, I don't want to even THINK about what's in the water. I'll probably pass.

Hopefully this is something the people can fix.
Top
supporter
Posted by marciehoff (+209) 13 years ago
Tootz- when was the last time you attempted to ask/tell an 8-12 year old in a public place what to or not to do?Years ago the response may have been "your not my mom" now it's "f#ck you." The child that pooped on the deck, would you ask they clean it up? Ask their name or who their parents are? If the police were not able to stop the fireworks what makes you think a (not their own) parent could? I am all for the "It takes a village" but quite frankly is seems a great portion of our little villagers are... hmm I'm at a loss for a discriptive title. None the less I'm just glad mine are mostly grown. Yes I do have grandchildren.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
Miles city, Mt. swimming pool
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
I cant believe people are actually letting their kids swim there? EWWW!! Lets see, yrs now, people in MC have been saying how gross and dirty the water is, they have been infected with bug bites and rashes and pincher bugs. Ear infections was the worst complaint. That was funny. All kids get ear infections from any pool, lake, concrete...doesnt matter. And I am NOt a doctor. Too bad noone wanted to run the pool. I get it, now its a freebee. I guess a $1.50 was too much in the past to make it a safe place to swim. Its a beautiful swim pool, and the Riverside Park, what a sight to see when driving into MC. It is a great facility. People from out of state use to say we were so lucky to have this unique swim pool. How right they were.
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
The problem was the City could not get enough qualified lifeguards. There is no one in MC right now certified to certify. There weren't very many applicants and I think only one had current certification.

I can understand Joe wanting to keep the pool open but under the circumstances. . .there was an arrest last week for criminal endangerment because a boy kept ducking a girl who did not want to be under water any more. We can all see where this is going to end up.

I LOVED the Oasis! But what is happening there now tells me it should be closed. Sigh.
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Folks,

If you observe or are subjected to disruptive / dangerous behavior at the Oasis, call the Dispatch center (911), report who you are, that you are at the Oasis, what you are observing / being subjected to and if you know, who the person(s) are that are causing the disruption.

An officer will be dispatched to Oasis to resolve the situation. The Chief has further instructed the officers of the MCPD on this protocol and they are expecting and will respond to your calls.

As much of a cliche' as it sounds, we're all in this pool together .

The only way we can make this work under the current circumstances (as Amorette has accurately described) is if we as a community and as concerned citizens pull together to assist each other.

Tony

[This message has been edited by Tony Ackerman (edited 7/4/2008).]
Top
Posted by Chuck Schott (+1286) 13 years ago
This is sad to read. I've always thought the pool was a feature of the Miles City landscape that should be preserved, it always brought back childhood memories, good memories.

Clearly the place can not be left on auto piolt and be expected to survive. I expect a year of unsupervised use will lead to damages to the facility that may cause it's demise.

If someone wanted to take up a good cause in Miles City I would think the pool and the oasis area would make a rewarding project. Forget about your million $ plus indoor pool complex and get busy saving what you have.

That just my opinion I could be wrong.
Top
Posted by Tina Bean (+417) 13 years ago
The sad deal here is that people are just letting their kids run wild and not even going with them to the pool. The kids are jumping off the ladders and talking some pretty foul language coming from little mouths. One kid actually fell off of the high dive ladder the other day. Luckily they were ok. This pool deal is going to cause a death. Im all for the village deal but how can you try to regulate children whose parents are right there and they wont do anything about their behavior. Let alone the kids that are there alone because they have no parental supervision at home. Those kids have no respect and really dont care what you have to say. Its sad to say this but the pool needs to be shut down before someone dies. I will be suprised if it doesn't happen this summer.
Top
supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14965) 13 years ago
Maybe the city should install a web-cam so that the police can monitor the actives at the pool. Self-government without self discipline won't work.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (edited 7/4/2008).]
Top
supporter
Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17462) 13 years ago
Tina Bean is 100% on the money. Today's parents are such coddling, nurturing, non-disciplinary morons, today's kids are spoiled brats who run around like the world is the Lord of the Flies. I myself have watched other's raise their children to be monsters, and shake my head in disgust.

Back in the 60s and 70s when many of us were raised, the threat of the back of dad's hand would have kept us from having bowel movements on the deck. Today's kids....where are their peers? If I were 12, and saw some 8 year year poop on the dock, I would have cleaned his clock from here to China. In today's society, if I had done that, I would be playing for the Beavers, errr...the Warriors instead of the Cowboys, if I elected to discipline children who were not my relatives.

Bottom line, in today's overly permissive society, the Socialist Oasis is not going to fly.
Top
supporter
Posted by Colette Butcher (+406) 13 years ago
Apparently a couple weeks ago there was a little girl that was pulled under the water, nearly drowned, by a group of kids and the ambulance had to be dispatched to the Oasis. The girl ended up spending the night at Holy Rosary Hospital. I saw an ambulance run listed in the calls in the Star the next evening but nothing has been in the paper about this incident. If there is not going to be proper supervision then the Oasis needs to be closed. Unsupervised children and water don't mix. The City of Miles City is only asking for trouble. It is only a matter of time before someone gets badly injured or drowns while the pool is running on auto-pilot. Lets not wait until that happens before something is done.
Top
supporter
Posted by howdy (+4945) 13 years ago
If I were connected to the general liability insurance company for the city, this thread would sure make me nervous. Sounds like an accident looking for a place to happen.
Top
Posted by Eric Brandt (+846) 13 years ago
"If there is not going to be proper supervision then the Oasis needs to be closed."

Colette, I think I disagree with you at the fundamental level here. Should we prevent accidents (as a society)? We have as a people repeatedly said "yes" as evidenced by countless laws. At what point do we stop and reevaluate safety? Who is responsible? What level of safety is acceptable? How does the safety of one activity outweigh another?

Maybe parents should be supervising. If parents aren't supervising, should we punish everyone else?

There may well be a tragedy - and I hope there isn't. I can vouch that it's not a pretty site when your own brother is grappled out of the lake. Never the less, I will be the last person to take those choices away from parents whose right it is to raise their children the way they see fit. I will also be the first person to stand in court and defend the public against a parent who allowed their child to play unsupervised on public property. The negligence is on the parent's part - not the publics.

Parents need to be held accountable if they want the right to raise their own children. Every right has a responsibility. I fear that by repeatedly holding the Government responsible when things go wrong, then we are making a strong case for parenting licenses - and I'm not personally comfortable with that.
Top
supporter
Posted by Big Dave (+435) 13 years ago
I always wondered how to find the poop deck.

[Space allowed for groans]

But seriously, I think this might present a golden opportunity to those folks fundraising for a real pool. If they play their cards right.
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
Funding wasn't the problem. Finding certified lifeguards was when there is no one in the area to do certification.
Top
Posted by poisonspaghetti (+282) 13 years ago
Those parents who are exercising their "right" to raise their kids as they see fit (aka...letting the kids run wild in a public place) are often the first to blame someone else when something happens to one of their kids. It sounds like a situation ripe for a tragedy to occur. If it does, you can bet that the city will end up having to defend itself - an expensive endeavor.

[This message has been edited by poisonspaghetti (edited 7/4/2008).]
Top
Posted by ABE (+422) 13 years ago
Swim at your own risk billboard would take care of any city lawsuit.

But where are the parents? I thought the pool was open to authorized children only, not just drop them off and hope they live.

Don't forget about the full time city workers that have a lot of down time between fires. They know water saftey and cpr, thats about as close to a lifeguard as I can think.

Another thought, since the pool "pond" what ever? is not realy open\open what are the rules about swimming at night? Do the old rules still apply now that no body is in charge?
Top
Posted by Eric Brandt (+846) 13 years ago
Which city workers have a lot of down time between fires that would allow them to be "lifeguards" ?
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
That is a REAL pool. It has been there for a long time known as the MC pool. That group of people who kept holding meetings was a waste of time. Work with what you have like someone said. It is beautiful, kids can walk in without clingling on to the parents, sit in the water, build sandcastles, catch minnows, dive for rocks.
Top
Posted by Tootz (+71) 13 years ago
Out of curiosity.
Does the city still have a police officer that works at one of the schools during the school year? If so what is his status in the summer?
Top
Posted by Eric Brandt (+846) 13 years ago
Tootz,
If I recall correctly from meetings, the School Resource Officer uses the summer months to a) attend training, b) annual vacation, and c) help fill in other duties.

Patti,
I like the Oasis. I think the new pool should be built right next to it. I also think the Oasis should be moved to the riverside park side. It would be a better location and I think would get better utilization. In the summer, we can swim in the pond, in the spring, fall and winter we can swim inside, and ice skate where the pond was in the summer.
Top
Posted by ABE (+422) 13 years ago
so, spotted eagle is a pool. The tounge river when it used to back up must have been a pool also. Most people that do not live here see it as something differnt, a piece of 1800's retro but do not call it a pool.

But who cares what you call it, Miles city would not be the same without it. I just affraid that if something isn't done, it will be taken away from us.

Parents just can't drop and go anymore. If someone of age was there just to run a snack bar and keep order I think that they would make a small fortune.

As far as Milescity makeing due with what it has -
People in MilesCity do not make due, they make.

That is why we are still here and smaller towns died back then. We just let stuff slip alittle as a community. Too many people think that it's not their problem if the kids are on the war path. Those people will be the first to fight that the pool stays open for free babysitting and the first to sue the city when thier kid hurts themselves..

Rant.rant.rant....it does no good. I think I will do something about it... O h wait I don't have kids so it's not my problem, sorry.
Top
supporter
Posted by julieinmc (+519) 13 years ago
Didn't I read somewhere that the applicants who were chosen but couldn't attend training were going to be supervising the Oasis and have cell phones to call in emergencies? Where are they?

[This message has been edited by julieinmc (edited 7/6/2008).]
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Out of the three people who applied, one took work elsewhere leaving us with two people who could act as monitors. Three was an insufficient number of people as it was, two was out of the question.

On the advise of MMIA, the city's insurance provider, posting signage as we have, advising people that the Oasis is unsupervised and to use at their own risk, actually reduces the city's level of risk and legal exposure. Providing supervision, officially or unofficially, in a partial manner (i.e. monitors not lifeguards, or other city personnel who could be called away to the performance of their primary duties) actually exposes the city to greater legal liability and was advised against by MMIA. By providing such supervision, partial as it may have been proposed, we would have created the expectation that such supervision by agents of the city COULD be there at all hours the Oasis is open.

With only two remaining applicants, we simply could not meet that expectation. All of this was discussed at length in committee and at council. Under the circumstances, it was this or close the Oasis all together. It was as frustrating a decision for the council to have to make as it is for everyone else folks.

[This message has been edited by Tony Ackerman (edited 7/6/2008).]
Top
Posted by jesse (+13) 13 years ago
it is because of this kind of cheap and inconsiderate decisions by our beloved if not very stupid city and it's so called leaders that at the end of next month my family and i are moving away never to return and laughing all the way
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
Did you read Tony's post? "Cheap" had nothing to do with it. Lack of applicants and advice from the insuring body led to the decision. It was discussed and sweated over in the Council. This was not a decision taken lightly or voluntarily.

I am sorry you hate Miles City so much, as I love it, but I hope you find happiness wherever you go.
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Jesse,

You along with every citizen of Miles City and resident of Custer County is invited and encouraged to attend the committee and council meetings, each and every one. Advance notice of the meetings and the agenda are published in the Star and agenda packets are made available at City Hall. Our form of government in this country is participatory and works best when its citizens do just that, participate.

If you have concerns or opinions, bring them to your ward councilperson or better still, personally to the council meetings, that way we the council hear your concerns directly. When the council has to make these kinds of decisions, we really would appreciate hearing what the citizens would like to have happen and if they are willing to accept the trade offs that might be necessary to make their wishes come to bear.

Contrary to what some people might think and what others might say, the folks at City Hall and on the Council are not fiscally irresponsible nor are they purposely inconsiderate. If you don't like the job that is being done, exercise your constitutional rights and civic duty and inform your elected officials.

Don't just sit on the sidelines, get involved.

Tony
Top
supporter
Posted by Steve Craddock (+2733) 13 years ago
I was at the Oasis today with two of my neighbors' children. When we arrived there were several children in the pool and a few attentive parents on the beach and one of the piers. As the day went on the ratio of children-to-adults changed significantly, so that by 3:30 or so there were still about a dozen kids swimming but only two adults observing - one of whom was me. When we went home, ten kids were still there with only one adult - and she was lying on a beach towel near the showers -- not a great vantage point to spot any trouble at the end of the pier where most of the kids were.

As most of the 10 kids were approximately 8 to 10 years old, I'm pretty sure that only one or two of them belonged to the woman. Where were the other parents? I can understand letting teenagers go there without parental supervision, but elementary aged kids? C'mon folks, step up to the plate!
Top
supporter
Posted by Shu (+1796) 13 years ago
...maybe the subject line of this thread should have been called "Oasis POOP" instead of Oasis Pool...Mr. Hankey isn't still on the dock with flies buzzing-around it, is he? If so, could somebody please clean it up? Preferably the little brat who pinched it off?
Top
Posted by ABE (+422) 13 years ago
I think we can fix this like we have everything else

Fill the Oasis in,
build a casino on the spot
and put up another set of traffic lights

or just drop the whole problem untill someone does get hurt.
Top
Posted by Dave Thompson (+65) 13 years ago
Well.. we gots to do somethin... or else everyone is gonna leave this town and then LAUGH at us...

A little girl, with dirt smudged face...holding a dolly...

"Momma.. WHY are they laughing?"
Top
Posted by Chuck Schott (+1286) 13 years ago
I think we have to cut the Miles City youth some slack, I seriously doubt if the little tyke dropped his suit and crapped on the deck. I see it as a poop in the pants with serious leg shaking after the fact. His brother probably just forgot to tell him the part of the plan where he should be "in the pool" to pull the move off undetected.
Top
Posted by Ryan (+478) 13 years ago
Back in February there was a benefit to raise money for a swimming pool in Miles City which I heard raise a good amount of money (10,000+). When is this going to happen? What are they doing with the money that was raised? I agree that we need a safe pool in this town.
What does everyone think of using the Oasis site to build a Waterpark? It is two hours to the nearest Waterpark but if we had one here the surrounding towns wouldn't have to go far plus it would bring jobs for high schoolers, or anyone else.

Just a thought...
Top
Posted by JLB (+212) 13 years ago
I don't think "progression" or "improvement" is in the Miles City Dictionary. No one wants an indoor pool, therefore a water park that would help employ the teens living in this town would be unthinkable. Nice to see the oasis is being well taken care of. Might as well just make it a bird sanctuary or a new sewage plant. Sad to see, I always liked that area, but it takes tax dollars to maintain the upkeep, lifeguards ect. Too bad parents can't keep track of their kids. An unsupervised area like that could mean a big lawsuit for the city. Might need to shut it down until they figure out what to do with it.

[This message has been edited by JLB (edited 7/7/2008).]
Top
supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9198) 13 years ago
Do some of you people have problems with reading comprehension? It's not a matter of funding - it's that no qualified applicants applied, and there's no one available to qualify them.
Top
Posted by Leanne Stewart (+207) 13 years ago
Reading this thread reminds me of a story I read. So here it goes:

THE MOTHERS WHO DRUGGED US!!!!

The other day, someone at a store in our town read that a Methamphetamine lab had been found in an old farmhouse in the adjoining county and he asked me a rhetorical question.

"Why didn't we have a drug problem when you and I were growing up?"

I replied, "I had a drug problem when I was young:

I was drug to church on Sunday morning. I was drug to church for weddings and funerals.

I was drug to family reunions and community socials no matter the weather.

I was drug by my ears when I was disrespectful to adults.

I was also drug to the woodshed when I disobeyed my parents, told a lie, brought home a bad report card, did not speak with respect, spoke ill of the teacher or the preacher, or if I didn't put forth my best effort in everything that was asked of me.

I was drug to the kitchen sink to have my mouth washed out with soap if I uttered a profanity.

I was drug out to pull weeds in mom's garden and flower beds and cockleburs out of dad's fields.

I was drug to the homes of family, friends, and neighbors to help out some poor soul who had no one to mow the yard, repair the clothesline, or chop some firewood; and, if my mother had ever known that I took a single dime as a tip for this kindness, she would have drug me back to the woodshed.

Those drugs are still in my veins and they affect my behavior in everything I do, say, or think. They are stronger than cocaine, crack, or heroin; and, if today's children had this kind of drug problem, America would be a better place.

God bless the parents who drugged us!!

I too, would love to see a nice clean pool in town for everyone to enjoy, maybe with a lazy river that goes around it. Let the ducks have the Oasis. You could go to the park for a picnic and let the kids feed the ducks. I saw something in the paper about the pool committee looking for someone to take over the pool project. Hopefully someone that has lots of ideas could get this project done.
Top
supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9198) 13 years ago
[This message has been edited by Bridgier (edited 7/7/2008).]
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
The Oasis is there. Use it. It has been used for over 60 yrs that I know of. It's a beautiful pool. MC will never get an indoor pool. of all the years of TALK about it, nothing has or will happen.
And there are qualified people in MC to certify wanna be lifeguards. I know of three. The city just doesnt want to pay them.

Eric, how can you move the Oasis to the park. Why dont you take the old Butterys buliding and make an indoor pool with the slide coming off the roof, you know , like the Celebrity in Denver, on Colorado Blvd. That was an awesome place. It doesnt exsist anymore though. I think there is a Hooters there now. Geez, that nice facility erased for the modern stores. It had 100 lanes for bowling. I guess not enough supporters in Denver? Who knows.
Top
Posted by Bob Netherton (+1882) 13 years ago
When my kids were little, the pool was basically a dump-off for a lot of working parents. They'd drop their kids of early and pick them up late. It almost sounds like the same mindset is at work but without the lifegaurds to supervise.

Has anyone considered turning the oasis into a fishing pond? I spent a good part of my youth fishing those crappy back waters behind the golf course. Lots of carp, bullheads and an occasional bluegill. If they could survive in that slop I'd be willing to bet they could thrive in the oasis.

I realize that would mean no more swimming hole for Miles City, but it would be something. The thought of leaving the oasis open for swimming without lifegaurds seems like a scary proposition. Liability aside, I anticipate disaster.
Top
Posted by Donna Kingsley Coffeen (+399) 13 years ago
Even when I was a kid that pool was a disgrace. Anyone else remember them pulling dead cows out of the lower end of the lake? We swam in that filthy water.

Years later when I took my own kids there (early 80's) assuming that it now would have had to meet health standards, I ended up with 2 very sick kids. The pediatrician in MC that I took them to looked at one's ear/throat infection and the other's stomach virus and asked if they had been in the pool. He just shook his head and said the place should be condemned.

At least we had life guards back when I was a kid and they helped manage behavior. Honestly, you cannot expect children in a situation like this to all behave appropriately and safely without adult supervision. If you could, God would not have given children parents.

I am appalled that by now there is not a suitable, safe, and healthy pool that is available and supervised appropriately. There is so little for kids to do in the heat as it is you would think that people would make this a priority. I have not been to MC for years. Do you have a YMCA or a YWCA with a pool for children? How do they get swimming lessons?

If the pool does not meet health standards--safety standards--and is not appropriately supervised, I cannot imagine why the city would leave it open. And no, signs will not protect the city in a lawsuit. It is called "attractive nuisance" and if it is appealing to children (some of who may not yet be able to even read signs) the city will be sued (and should be sued) should anything happen there.
Top
Posted by Mayor (+139) 13 years ago
Leanne, thank you for that moment of levity and wise counsel. You made my day...

Otherwise, we've heard arguments urging the closure of the Oasis because:
a) there are no lifeguards or employed monitors
b) there was an initial rash of vandalism to one of the bathhouses
c) some kids don't recognize the authority of adults
d) some kids have frequently used profanity around younger children
e) the beach has been littered with cans and other debris
f) old rumors of ear infections and "swimmer's itch" persist
f) someone had an "accident" on one of the decks
g) someone saw an ambulance run to the Oasis listed in the paper

Assuming the City closes the Oasis, what then shall we do with Spotted Eagle Lake, which is larger, deeper, dirtier, less visible to passersby and farther away from the emergency services?

Shall we close Spotted Eagle Lake Park, too?

How about the many points of access to the Tongue and Yellowstone Rivers? Shall we line the banks of the rivers with razor wire, seal off Roche Jaune with concrete barriers and ticket boaters who launch from the sandbar?

And what about the Montana Theater or Main St., in general? I can't tell you the number of times I've heard profanities loudly issued from the mouths of unsupervised pre-teens on their way to or from a movie or simply hanging out nearby.

You get the point. There's no question that the Oasis is being made a scapegoat for all of the social ills of the city. Some of it, I think, is done out of a genuine concern for safety. Some of it is done out of a lamentation over what has and is being lost compared to the heyday of Dave Rivenes. Some of it is done out of an embarrassment that our cultural dirty laundry is being aired amidst such a visible and idyllic settng. And then there are those simply looking for an opportunity to embarrass the City Council.

But consider this for a moment: A look into the Oasis provides us a near perfect reflection of the current condition of our community, for good or for ill. It would be a mistake to look away too soon or to give up on it completely by closing the facility.

Can there be any denying the link between the pugnacious, foul-mouthed young boy and the adult who is serially charged with disorderly conduct and resisting arrest? The bully shoving younger kids off the decks and the wife beater at home? The litterbug on the beach and the perennial violator of our public nuisance ordinance? The cause-and-effect between parent/child behavior is undeniable. The Oasis illustrates both the scale of the problem and gives us a shot at breaking these cycles.

This is our town and the Oasis is its microcosm. It has all it needs to be transformed into the place that Alice Munroe wrote of in her short story, "Miles City, Montana". But complaining isn't enough. Engagement is required, knowing that as goes the Oasis so goes Miles City.

For my part, as long as weather and river conditions permit, the Oasis will remain open through the summer.
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
The pool meets water quality standards and no dead cow was ever pulled out it. How would one get there in first place? That sounds like an urban legend to me.

All pools, indoor, outdoor, concrete or otherwise, contain some germs. That's why they are treated and tested regularly. The city pool exceeds the standards for a swimming lake by a long ways. Spotted Eagle, on the other hand. . .

An indoor pool is out of the question financially. They are breathtakingly expensive to heat in the winter time and with natural gas going up, I don't think a price break is in the future.

Whenever an intelligent idea, like a concrete enclosure within the existing lake or a liner for the lake, is suggested, it gets shot down because no one wants "just" a concrete pool. They want a year-round water park with slides, hot tubs, three or four Olympic size pools, lazy river rides with poolside bar service, etc. and a practical solution i.e. a concrete pool inside the existing lake, never happens.

I liked the Oasis when I was a kid. I wish it could be opened properly and I disagree with the Mayor about it being opened "as is." I wish there were enough people willing and able to be lifeguards. I also wish we could agree on a PRACTICAL solution rather than wander off into dreamland but that seems about as likely as the city pool being able to find qualified lifeguards. . .

Sigh. I think I'll leave this topic before it gets even more depressing. . .At least we are having a cool year so the pool isn't needed as much as some years.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
Dead cows pulled out of the pool, thats a good one.!!! lol I love that pool, noone has ever gotten sick or a virous or ear infection. Probally something you ate before you went swimming. Cant wait to come swim there next week!!!
Top
Posted by Ryan (+478) 13 years ago
How did the discussion go from the Oasis to the picking on the Theater. Stick to the main theme.

My kids has swam in both the Oasis and Spotted Eagle and like to swim at Spotted Eagle. They said it is not as gross.

Which goes back to my disussion on the benefit for the pool. Why did people go and give money for something that might not ever happen. The other benefit that was on the same night was for helping victims of domestic violence (CNADA), CASA who speaks for children in the court system, and RSVP who does things for the community. I'm sure they didn't reach $10,000+. I'm not against anyone who is wanting to raise money to put in a pool in Miles City but I would rather put my money to a these programs that help children,women, and our community.
Top
supporter
Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4464) 13 years ago
Honestly nothing like this would ever get done if people waited for the sure thing before they donated.

That's half the problem. The other half is the relentless indoor/outdoor pool debate

I was just curious though how City Council and Mayor plan to reserve the level of funding that was previously used to operate the pool. My big concern in all this is that when someone develops a plan for the pool (either this one or another) the funding to run it will have been soaked up somewhere else.
Top
Posted by Tina Bean (+417) 13 years ago
Well Mr mayor that was quite the response. I'm not against the pool remaining open I think that is great. I do think however someone needs to take responsibility for their children! It should not be up to me or the neighbor to make sure that everyones kids behave. With these parent dropping their kids off and leaving them all day someone is going to get hurt. I can almost bet it will be one of the kids that belong to a parent that takes care of their kids that will get hurt too! Just like the drunk driver killing someone innocent. You guys want to leave that pool open CLEAN THE FRIGGIN BATHROOMS!!! They are gross and smell like POOP!!! No wonder the kid crapped on the dock! I wouldn't want to use it either. The park bathrooms get cleaned right? Clean these while your at it.
Top
Posted by Eric Brandt (+846) 13 years ago
"Eric, how can you move the Oasis to the park."

Well, the hole would stay in the same place, but if it were up to me I would move the sand, changing rooms and docks to the opposite side of the hole to make it directly accessible to the park. I would also close off the driveway on that side.

---

Regarding the group trying to create an indoor facility - they meet frequently and are actively and aggressively pursuing their pool. The name of the group is "Fun2U" and they are working hard to find the best-fit solution that will a) meet the needs of the community year round, and b) fit the communities economic profile.

Levi: They are planning additional fund-raisers yet for this year. As I said - they are quite active. This has been attempted a few times in the past. It is a lot of work, and can be emotionally tasking. This group has the best chance yet and they would appreciate all our support.

Pools are expensive. That does not mean they are unaffordable - just expensive. There are pools in larger communities which struggle, yet there are pools in smaller communities which in fact thrive. The goal is to discover what combination allows a successful operation and then fund it.

The work of Fun2U is geared at designing a facility, both physically and leadership-wise which will not rely on the City's budget - and in fact, the group is a legal not-for-profit entity completely separate from the City. This does not mean the City is not part of the solution, however - and they are quite aware of what the group is doing and has provided positive communication and leadership.

---

Miles City - you have right now a set of leadership which is both progressive and vested in our future. I implore you to get involved - either with your government or with one of the many "Fun2U"-like groups pursuing a high-quality life for Miles City.
Top
moderator
founder
Posted by David Schott (+17158) 13 years ago
I was just curious though how City Council and Mayor plan to reserve the level of funding that was previously used to operate the pool. My big concern in all this is that when someone develops a plan for the pool (either this one or another) the funding to run it will have been soaked up somewhere else.

Well, now that the County isn't paying the City for wildland fire protection maybe the funds that used to pay for the pool employees are now helping to make up for the shortfall in MCF&R's budget.
Top
supporter
Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4464) 13 years ago
Eric, I'm sure you probably already know this, but generally whether a public indoor pool struggles or thrives is more a product of tax base than population.

And we (Custer County) are at the bottom of the ladder in that respect. We'd need a significant economic shift before indoor would make any sense.

http://www.allbusiness.co...818-5.html

Rosebud County, home to the Colstrip power plants, has the highest taxable value per capita in the state; its residents enjoy both the state's lowest tax rates and budget levels that are about twice the statewide average. Fallon county residents benefit from even higher budgets and modest tax rates, in part because of natural resource revenues. But Custer County is at the opposite extreme: With a small tax base, residents pay some of the highest tax rates in the state in order to provide a level of services that is below average.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 7/7/2008).]
Top
supporter
Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4464) 13 years ago
I'm mostly upset I missed my opportunity at the Poop Deck joke. Whose job is it to scrub the Poop Deck anyways?

Maybe we should call in Captain Spaulding?

Or maybe we could go down to yellowtail and hand out flyers for Montana's hottest new Brown Trout waters.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 7/7/2008).]
Top
Posted by Bob Netherton (+1882) 13 years ago
If Miles City finally goes with a "ce-ment pond" does it have to be indoor? An outdoor pool wouldn't have to be heated and would only be open during the summer season, like the pools in Billings. Hell, I think even Winnett has (or had) a pretty decent outdoor pool.
Top
Posted by Eric Brandt (+846) 13 years ago
Rick,
What does that have to do with the Fun2U discussions? Did you miss the part where the group is working to solve this issue from a NON-TAX perspective?

Why is Miles City obligated to imitate the most catastrophic failures? Are we to stupid to find working solutions to our community?

How much does a pool really cost? How does it get funded? If the pool had a ridiculous annual budget of $500,000 - that's still only $3.50 per person, per month. Is the average person spending $3.50 on other "entertainment"?

How much is an X-Box? A new computer? An IPOD? The latest coolest sneakers?

This issue has exactly NOTHING to do with tax-base, and everything to do with what a community values. There are a lot of people here who value year-round swimming services, and that group is working hard to solve the issue with facts, math and planning. What are you doing about it besides offering the usual dooms-day gloom? The issue is education and prioritisation - not taxation. The fact is that things like swimming pools are actually cheaper and healthier for both community and individuals than the other "entertainment" solutions. Maybe if the adults in this community had a decent place to lap-swim we would not have to keep contributing so much to our bloated, out-of-control health-care industry. Ah - the hidden savings in indoor pools - reduced health-care!

I suspect as fuel and shipping costs rise, things like pools, crafts and farmers' markets will regain social importance.
Top
Posted by Chuck Schott (+1286) 13 years ago
All you have to do is get one of our legislators to tack a provision on to some total irrelevant bill for the Eastern Montana Aquatic Center or EMAC. For crying tears in a bucket you got 1.5 Mil for runways at a closed airport, a couple of Million for EMAC should be a piece of cake. Just tell them about the dead cows the poor little crumb snatchers have to swim with, you should get a majority just on the sympathy vote. My advice is to wait for an election cycle and pin down the Senators for support, make it a priority.

Slogans: EMAC, Because no one should have to swim with dead cows.
.........EMAC, We'll have restrooms!
Top
Posted by tax payer (+346) 13 years ago
That runway serves for hospital planes and fire fighter planes. Exercise as walking is good for your health and doesn't cost anything, but a good pair of shoes. The economy being in the dumps, with expense the way it is I feel we should maintain what we have and not add more expense. It would be nice to have a pool, but the country kids seem to get by without a swimming pool, golf course, movie theater and etc.
Top
supporter
Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4464) 13 years ago
Hey, if they can figure out a way to make it work, I'd be first in line to support it. Just hate to see people burn themselves out hiking the same dead-end trail many others have hiked.

I know that you know though, that you can't build a business plan based on every man, woman, and child in the county knocking. Only taxation has that kind of reach.

A nice outdoor pool is probably pretty doable. And 75% of your usage is probably going to be in the summer anyway, even if you have it indoors. Once school gets started, along with all the activities, there's honestly not much time for swimming for most families.
Top
Posted by Jess Bradley (+203) 13 years ago
Folks,

If you observe or are subjected to disruptive / dangerous behavior at the Oasis, call the Dispatch center (911), report who you are, that you are at the Oasis, what you are observing / being subjected to and if you know, who the person(s) are that are causing the disruption.

An officer will be dispatched to Oasis to resolve the situation. The Chief has further instructed the officers of the MCPD on this protocol and they are expecting and will respond to your calls.

As much of a cliche' as it sounds, we're all in this pool together .

The only way we can make this work under the current circumstances (as Amorette has accurately described) is if we as a community and as concerned citizens pull together to assist each other.

Tony


If the police department is taking on this additioanl task, whay can't they just add a stop at the oasis every half hour or hour to their patrol. If a child can not prove he is being supervised, then the police can remove them. Granted they will probably go right back in after the officer leaves, but seems to me it wouldn't be much fun getiing repeatedly kicked out, and not actually getiing to swim. Shouldn't be the responsiblity of the police department, but it seems the city made a decision and they need to make it work. And yes, the police or city should not be responsible for peoples kids, but we all have made society the way it is today, and we do pay for the city to run the PD and th pool, so seems like it may be an answer, albeit not a great one!
Top
Posted by Jeremy Orthman (+435) 13 years ago
Aren't there still pools at Baker and Forsyth? They don't have any life guards there that could train or certify the kids in MC? What about Billings? There isn't anyone in all of eastern Montana who couldn't travel to Miles City or vice versa to train or certify some lifeguards?
Top
Posted by Jeremy Orthman (+435) 13 years ago
Ok, I just looked at another post and saw that three British Soccer Coaches are coming to MC? So, MC can get Soccer Coaches to come all the way from Britain, but can't find anyone on this side of the Atlantic to train some lifeguards?
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Jess,

To a great extent, that has been happening for some time now. Additional patrols were scheduled as well as "on foot" time at the Oasis.

Jeremy,

Perhaps you missed the point made earlier in the thread, but the issue wasn't the availability of training, it was a lack of applicants for the life guard positions.

[This message has been edited by Tony Ackerman (edited 7/25/2008).]
Top
Posted by Jeremy Orthman (+435) 13 years ago
Tony,

Well actually the points seemed to be all over the place. One seemed to be a lack of applicants and another person stated it was a lack of qualified applicants. If it was the latter and not the former, that seems very fixable.
Top
Posted by Tina Bean (+417) 13 years ago
This whole pool situation is a joke. I take my kids there, they swim and behave and have a good time. Meanwhile there are kids in the bathroom smoking god knows what and cussing at the top of their lungs on the beach...&*%$ this and &%$# that. Fist fights and all that good stuff. One day an officer says the kids CAN swim to the dock as long as they aren't jumping off the diving board stands they are ok to swim wherever. Then another officer comes in and kick them out of that area because they are not supposed to swim there. WTF. If the oasis were open to the public my kids would be able to swim out there because they passed their swim tests. I guess this whole thing makes perfect sense!!! Why does one officer say one thing and another say another?? Swimming out to that dock is the least of the worry at thet place. GET IT TOGETHER!!!
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
(wearing my councilman's hat)

Tina,

The officers have the discretionary power to make that call. What they say at that time goes. Period.
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
(wearing my councilman's hat, again)

Given the incidents that occurred yesterday, a "one strike" policy is now in effect. Cross the line, you're out of the Oasis for the rest of this season. No arguments, no contest.

At the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, the following actions will result in suspension of privilege at the Oasis and possible further legal action.

Sufficiently disruptive/abusive behavior.
Continuous foul and abusive language, directed at other users of the area (especially by youth directed towards adults).
Endangering another user life through direct or indirect action.

Several youth from our city have now been suspended from the Oasis as a result of their actions yesterday. There are several others on the line and if caught, will also be suspended.

[This message has been edited by Tony Ackerman (edited 7/25/2008).]
Top
Posted by Toni Lee Rentschler (+221) 13 years ago
I agree with Tina. I was out there a while ago when she was there. I WONT take my kids there again. I had my three and five year old out there. All there was pushing, shoving, cussing, yelling (and I am loud but they were louder then me!) and kids just being rude. I agree, a big JOKE!
Top
Posted by Tina Bean (+417) 13 years ago
Yes sir Tony they sure were suspended. LOL the officer told 2 boys they were suspended and sat in his vehicle for 10 minutes then left. Needless to say.... 1 of the boys was still there when the officer left. good job on the new rules..very effective.
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Tina,
You're invited to offer up an alternative solution.
Top
Posted by Toni Lee Rentschler (+221) 13 years ago
Solution? Maybe have someone there that is supose to be there. Have that person be there the whole time that it is open. Solution!
Top
Posted by Tony Ackerman (+190) 13 years ago
Who would that person be and how is that position paid? When I asked for people to offer up a solution, it was serious question, not facetious.

If you have a real solution, offer it and explain how it is to work.
Top
Posted by Toni Lee Rentschler (+221) 13 years ago
I wasnt trying to be like that. I was being truthful. Isn't there someone that is supose to be there. That was the whole reason that the pool was still open. There was to be someone there with a cell phone ince of soemthing happening. Where is that person?
Top
Posted by ML (+41) 13 years ago
Don't you think if hiring somone just to sit there, they would have done that? I am sure if they hire someone "just to sit there" the city would be responsiable if someone drowned.
Top
Posted by kent fandrich (+114) 13 years ago
Is it possible to hire two people, both part time, to monitor entrance to the Oasis. This would mean they would not be lifeguards, but would only admit children over a certain age without an adult, and monitor behavior and be given the ability to make decisions on whether these ill behaved children can remain at the pool. As said earlier in this post, it wasn't a money issue as to why we didn't have lifeguards, but a lack of applicants. Use the money set aside for lifeguards for the season to pay these two individuals.
Top
Posted by Toni Lee Rentschler (+221) 13 years ago
Thank you Kent! At least someone gets what I am trying to say.
That is what I thought they had done in the begning. Wasn'tt here somethign somewhere that there was to be someone out there. Some one that was to be able to call for help... At least that is what I remember. Sorry if I rememebr wrong.
But Knets idea is great. There is money why not use the idea.
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
The insurer (MMIA) said that, for insurance purposes, the pool either had to be fully staffed with certified lifeguards or be like Spotted Eagle, no supervision. Insurance--the curse of modern society.
Top
Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+476) 13 years ago
Isn't there a pool over by the golf course on Tompy? Last winter when I was visiting I drove by it (but it was filled with snow so I don't know about the condition or if it was really a pool now or just a fenced lot). Maybe that could be "The City Pool" for people who want to get away from rowdy teens and dirty water at the Oasis and it can be left for those brave enough to just deal with it the way it is. If you charged people $5 or so to get in, there should be enough left over to keep it pretty clean and maybe hire a lifeguard from Jordan or Terry or Forsyth, which seem to have great pools despite the fact that their taxbase can't be that much higher than Miles City's.

[This message has been edited by Cheryl Pieters (edited 7/28/2008).]
Top
supporter
Posted by Levi Forman (+3713) 13 years ago
That is not a city-owned pool. It belongs to a group of private individuals that share it if I am not mistaken. It's also way too small to open up to the public.
Top
Posted by Keli A. (+105) 13 years ago
Cheryl,

The pool you are talking about is called Splash and it costs $3,000 just to become a member and then all the other fees that go with it. Not something the agverage family can afford.
Top
founder
Posted by Chad (+1765) 13 years ago
"The insurer (MMIA) said that, for insurance purposes, the pool either had to be fully staffed with certified lifeguards or be like Spotted Eagle, no supervision. Insurance--the curse of modern society."

Isn't it ironic that MMIA told the City to shut down Spotted Eagle a few years ago because it Was Not staffed. I think it depends on the current litigation climate, what the hot topic is on the menu- the sue de jour.
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
Like asbestos, it's what folks are suing for this month.


Hard word to spell, asbestos.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (edited 7/28/2008).]
Top
Posted by Ragna (+20) 13 years ago
How about an Adult to keep the grounds and building clean, someone that works at the Jr. High and knows these kids, and as a added bonus is certified as a Lifeguard amoung other water safety training and has had many years experiance dealing at the pool. Oh that would be me!!!
Top
Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+476) 13 years ago
I vote for Ragna!
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
Talk to MMIA and get their opinion. They had the final say on the matter.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
Hey, I think I know who this person is and I'll bet she will do the job, Ragna!!!! And a GOOD job at that !! How do we get ahold of her and ask?

I know someone who would give you some of those petal boats for the Oasis. How fun would that be?

Glad to hear the swim lessons went well. Great results and time well spent!! Thanks Ragna for all you do!! Love from Colorado
Top
supporter
Posted by julieinmc (+519) 13 years ago
Uh, Patti, all you have to do is click on Ragna's name above her post (in red print) and you can send her an email. Say "hi" to Suella for me.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
Hey Julie, I will tell Suella hi. She will be in MC end of August. But which Julie whom shall I said hi?

Ragna ANN. Will you please call me!! I have some info for you.

Voting? Ragna Ann has my VOTE too. Me too!!! Love from Colorado! Rockies lost again. No 4 tacos for a dollar tomorrow..

Anyone from MC coming down here for the Democrat convention? Need a place to stay? We have room. Must like dogs. Bring your clubs!!
Top
supporter
Posted by julieinmc (+519) 13 years ago
Julie,John and Curtis's Mom is how I used to be known. By the way John is living in Arvada and working at DIA for Lynx Aviation.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
Hi there !! Long time!! I never see you when I come home, and I am home alot!! I will have to look him up, our neighbor works for United. Call me, 303-688-8043 Busy adopting bassets and english bulldogs!!! Talk to you soon!
Top
Posted by Ragna (+20) 13 years ago
Hi Patti Ann,
Why don't you move back to Miles City next summer and we will coach the swim team again together? I will call you later tonight.
Top
Posted by Patti Hughes (+87) 13 years ago
ok, how fun will that be again?!?! Kick, Kick, kick!!! I love MC, but I love Castle Rock's weather...and there is no fence in the yard or dog parks for my dogs..put a fence up and here we come!!! Bye, love ya
Top
newbie
Posted by Amy Barry (+6) 13 years ago
Cheap may have not been an initial reason, but if you have a lack of applicant's for a position, there is usually a reason. Better pay and/or benefits might encourage people to apply. Advertising that you will assist in certification could enourage people to apply. I am sure that there are plenty of people in town who would love a job that pays MORE than minimum wage. If it is worth it to the City to keep the pool open, that seems to be a small price to pay. If it means raising the fee a bit per person, well, again, if it is worth it people will pay. It seems that if that truly is a roadblock, it is still cheaper than building a new pool. And even if a new pool is built, aren't you going to have the same problems? It seems to me that most of the problems would be the same whether the pool is the Oasis or a more traditional rec center pool. If you don't pay people well enough, you are not going to get quality help. A pool definitely needs quality people running it. Let me tell you, a 16 year old, certified or not, is not going to be able to handle snotty, foul mouthed pre-teens. Beyond certification, training in handling difficult situations and confrontation is also needed to solve the problems you are talking about.

And how about revoking priviledges for kids who can't follow the rules and behave themselves? I mean really, if things are still the way they were when I was a kid, everyone in MC pretty much knows everyone else and most people know which kids belong to which parents too. Often parents really aren't aware or are in denial about the way their kids act when they are unsupervised. Don't you guys have cell phone cameras? If not, how about bringing a regular digital camera with you? Most digital cameras have a video mode that takes great video. Get the kids on tape. Or just threaten to. Tell them, I know your Mom and she is not going to be very happy to hear how you act when she isn't around. They may mouth off and put up a front as if they don't car but chances are they do and they will reign it in.

Anyway - just my $2.00 worth!

PS (No - I don't live in MC but my Grandma, Aunt and Uncle do. I spent many summer days riding my bike around town and at the Oasis and Spotted Eagle and will be back for the first time in 4 years the beginning of Sept.)
Top
founder
supporter
Posted by Amorette Allison (+11786) 13 years ago
As I understand it, if you are kicked out of the pool for behavior issues, it is a season long ban. There seem to have been less problems lately so I think it may be working.
Top
Posted by extreme conditions (+41) 13 years ago
I think a web cam should be hooked up from the pool straight to mcpd and this web site so all of m.c. can see these terrorists in action
Top