http://www.motherjones.co...n_doe.html


Luckily, connecting to the internet is FAR more complicated then Iraq and our economy.

That's almost kind of refreshing to me.

Luckily, connecting to the internet is FAR more complicated then Iraq and our economy.

Wonder how it stacks up to naval aviation and carrier landings.

Besides, few tried to do more damage to the internet than your guy who "invented" it. Separation of net and state. It should be an amendment.

I'm usually not one to get into these political pis*ing matches but whether John McCain knows how to navigate a computer is pretty low on my priority list. I don't believe the man is stupid - I can run a computer but would have a little trouble here.



He can have someone help him with any computer work he needs done - he was all on his own in there.

[This message has been edited by John Morford (edited 6/12/2008).]

God, where to start.

If you can't make the connection between our current state of world affairs and the impact of a President who is PC illiterate, click my name and send me an email. I'd be more then happy to discuss it with you.

For the record, though I'm sure I've said this before, I wanted to vote for McCain in 2000. I have a huge amount of respect for his time served in Vietnam and feel he is a far, FAR cry from the type of politician I HATE. He has set himself down on the other side of two many key issues for me to support him anymore though.

"PC illiterate" is a really vague and subjective term. To some, if you don't know how to configure IP addresses to get hardware on a network, you are "PC illiterate". I work with a whole bunch of people that in job interviews told me they were proficient with Word & Excel and I give them what is for me a simple task (like setting up a weighted average) and they have no clue how to setup the spreadsheet or document to accomplish that task. In my mind they are "PC illiterate".

I am not sure that PC literacy ought to be a litmus test of ones competency for being president. I'll bet that Dick Nixon was "IBM Selectric illiterate", which maybe why he used a tape recorder. Obama may know how to use a PC, but he is illiterate when it comes to econ 101 or foreign policy 101. In my mind those issues are far more important than one's PC skills.

Obama may know how to use a PC, but he is illiterate when it comes to econ 101 or foreign policy 101. In my mind those issues are far more important than one's PC skills.

----------------

AND HE'S A RELIGIOUS PIRATE OF RADICAL ISLAM!!!!!!!

ARRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HE'S A WOLF IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING!!!!!!!

THAT'S FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYTHING ELSE!!!!!!

Good article on McCain and the people who support him in Rolling Stone...

http://www.rollingstone.c...tal_mccain

I don't think being computer illiterate is all that unusual for a 70 year old. I also don't really see any reason that the president would need to be proficient at using a computer.

I haven't read that article but "Rolling Stone" and "good article" does not compute.

EDIT: Oh lord I just went there and my guess was correct. I think a lot of people on this board have a severely oversimplified view of reality because of the "news" that they read.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 6/13/2008).]

Can anyone tell me what would happen if someone managed to throttle out a rootname server?

Can anyone tell me what the Department of Justice's options are that get presented to the President in the case of such an attack?

Can anyone detail for me 2 possible infrastructure scenario's should any or all of these rootname servers be affected?

Is the internet a series of tubes?

Can anyone tell me what would happen in any of the above scenarios if presented to a president that doesn't even know how to run a computer and thinks Dick Cheney would be a "Great Advisor"?

This is exactly why this avenue of attack is so open to us and makes us vunerable. People who are very familiar with computers don't even think they are a cause for concern.

[This message has been edited by J. Dyba (edited 6/13/2008).]

Oh please. I guarantee no congressman knows anything about that crap, nor should they have to. That is not remotely related to being "computer literate" anyway. I have built a dozen computers myself, run 2 websites, and I have no idea what you're talking about.

Go ahead and read the article, Levi. You can balance it later with a nice National Review article.

I don't know why you think I'm a Republican Bob. I wouldn't consider the National Review a good source of information either.

And I did read the article. If you think that's a good piece of journalism then I don't know what to say to you.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 6/13/2008).]

Ok, let me simplify this.

Would you be perfectly happy with a President who couldn't add 2+2?

Would you then expect a President who couldn't add 2+2 too thoroughly understand and comprehend what an advisor was telling him about ditributed linear algebra?


The above "crap" that I discussed in my previous post are pertinent, important issues of the society we live in TODAY.

I bet this Congressman does: http://politics.slashdot..../13/212259

Should Levi care if .com or .net goes TU? Maybe, maybe not - but the world that Mr. McCain grew up in has moved on, and I think what Mr. Dyba is trying to get at is that a 1950's analog paradigm won't cut it anymore in an increasingly digital world that is defined more and more by the automated systems that we've put in place. One hiccup in the supply chain, and we're all in a production of Lord of The Flies.

The above "crap" that I discussed in my previous post are pertinent, important issues of the society we live in TODAY.

Of course they are, and that's information assurance is one of the primary branches of the NSA.

http://www.nsa.gov/ia/

They are the ones that are responsible for understanding the vulnerabilities of our networks and advising the president. Whether or not John McCain knows how to use excel is not relevant to our national security. The president is not an expert on every aspect of national security, and he couldn't be even if he wanted to. I doubt Barak Obama knows how to drive a tractor, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's not prepared to sign a new Farm Bill.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 6/13/2008).]

The NSA is woefully unprepared, by their own admission, to defend the current United States infrastructure. This is due directly to the lack of importance this issue has received in the past due to the people who drive those policies (i.e. the President) not fully comprehending how important it is.

http://www.govexec.com/da...1901j1.htm

I know quite a few people, including an amazing professor who was my mentor through college, who QUIT as consultants for the NSA out of frustration due to the lack of care of the highest placed people. They would walk through scenarios and demonstrate what/where/why and at the end of all their efforts be rewarded with a "It's not a priority to the administration at this time".

How can a person be concerned about something they have no inclinatation whatsoever to even learn the simplest thing about it?

[This message has been edited by J. Dyba (edited 6/13/2008).]

Well, I guess some people live in the Matrix and some live in reality,

No, some people live in Alaska, and some people live in civilization.

So yes, if the net goes down in Miles City, it may (or may not) be a big deal. If the net goes down in a population center for any signifigant period of time, then life becomes rapidly unpleasant.

Wow.

I wanted to vote for McCain in 2000

That puts us in the same camp.

He has set himself down on the other side of two many key issues for me to support him anymore though.

Like what?

Can anyone tell me what would happen if someone managed to throttle out a rootname server... Can anyone tell me what would happen in any of the above scenarios if presented to a president that doesn't even know how to run a computer and thinks Dick Cheney would be a "Great Advisor"?

I can, because its happened before. 7 (or 9) of the 13 were DDoS'd out of service. Essentially, nobody noticed. I don't think anyone asked the President for his advice in that great hour of need.

All those sites would have to go down for a significantly longer period of time before it would be a substantial problem, because of the tiered nature of DNS. And I'd be surprised if a majority of the most highly critical internet transactions that happen routinely rely on public DNS at all. Sure, maybe nobody'll be able to reach Target.com for a few hours, but that's not really in my top 10 of national security threats.

Can anyone tell me what the Department of Justice's options are that get presented to the President in the case of such an attack?

I hope not. If someone on MilesCity.com knows the answer, I'd say it's way too widely known to help anyone.

out of frustration due to the lack of care of the highest placed people

They have a word for this.... it's called government.

I think this is just another in a long list of "Justification by Faith" issues you take up on Obama's behalf, J. The Presidency is a CEO position, not a CIO one. The CEOs of HP and Intel have degrees in Business Administration. The CEO of IBM has a degree in History. If the most successfuly tech companies in the world don't see the need for techie leadership, I can't really see your argument.

And it seems an especially strange argument considering that at the same time, you're proposing putting the most powerful fighting force on the planet, during a war, under a complete n00b as Commander in Chief (an actual Constitutional role). vs an Annapolis educated and decorated war hero no less.

In short, you're taking the "experience" angle from an intentionally narrow viewpoint, just to advocate for your guy. If the best "experience" example you can find is Obama being able to run Windows XP, then I'd say there's not much "there" there.

Besides, as soon as Showbama learns the basics of securing his own domain name spaces, maybe he'll be able to offer some advice to NSA.

http://my.barackobama.org/
http://fightthesmears.org/

rickrolled. Awesome

Bridgier said:

> So yes, if the net goes down in Miles City, it may (or may not) be a big deal. If the net goes down in a population center for any signifigant period of time, then life becomes rapidly unpleasant.

Just like this!

http://gawker.com/380877/...oplay=true

I loved how the problem ended up being that ginormous Linksys-looking router.

Hehe yeah, as soon as I saw that thing the first thing that came to mind was "unplug it and plug it back in".

Well yes, when I worked for the MSU library, it seemed that the primary use of the internet was a delivery system for pron - which is apparently vital to the academic research process.

The awesome part was that everybody knew this - and nobody cared.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (edited 6/13/2008).]

Yes Rick, I'm aware you know more about the United States cyber defenses then the director of the NSA, well at least all the parts found on Google. We are highly vulnerable to several forms of attack and the "government" is reflective of the President.

You discuss putting Obama in charge of the Iraq war over an experienced veteran. Well Since that experienced veteran wants to stick with the same plan that has failed us for 7 years, I think that is a bad idea.

Obama will have to make some military decisions and has started to make the steps to further educate himself in those aspects. My point being that McCain has failed to show any interest in technology when it is such a key component to how we survive as a country.

I'm aware you know more about the United States cyber defenses then the director of the NSA

Well, I'm no Barack Obama

I'm well aware of the many vulnerabilities. It's just that the one you picked to demogogue with... "throttl[ing] out A rootname server" would be a relatively insignificant one.

We are highly vulnerable to several forms of attack and the "government" is reflective of the President

Hey, that simple ping attack should have been easy to prevent. Both Bush and Clinton administrations (whose VP practically invented the internet) seemed to miss out on doing so.

Well Since that experienced veteran wants to stick with the same plan that has failed us for 7 years, I think that is a bad idea

http://www.cnn.com/2004/A...index.html

McCain: Bush not straight enough on Iraq
Sunday, September 19, 2004

"Airstrikes don't do it; artillery doesn't do it," he said. "Boots on the ground do it. That's one of the fundamentals of warfare." ...

McCain called for an increase in the Army of about 70,000 soldiers and for 20,000 to 25,000 more Marines.

For the surge before the surge. That's leadership.

This... is not.

http://www.boston.com/new...ving_view/

In July of 2004, the day after his speech at the Democratic convention catapulted him into the national spotlight, Barack Obama told a group of reporters in Boston that the United States had an "absolute obligation" to remain in Iraq long enough to make it a success.

Of course the fine print should have read that "absolute obligation" was only a limited time offer.

Well, my civilization has Nordstroms, JC Penneys, Cattle Company, PERMANENT DIVIDEND CHECKS, an INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, an Air Force Base, A professional hockey team, football team, just to name a FEW things --

So I guess if you lived in your civilization, which I have in the past and have visited recently as well, then I would be freaked out if the internet went down too!

I think this is a non issue. As president he'll have people to advise
him - hopefully good people.

"PERMANENT DIVIDEND CHECKS"

I'll be sure to addess you as Comrade from now on then

No thanks -- have no desire to be any sort of comrade of yours!