With only three more days until pitchers & catchers report I figured I'd get this thread started with my take on a couple teams.

1. First off it looks like once again Mariner's GM Bill Bavasi is going for seasonal mediocrity and giving away too many players to get one. Bedard is good I'll admit but giving up George Sherill and four others to get him? I don't think so. Carlos Silva? There's a laugh. Just like with Jeff Weaver last year, this year Bill Bavasi is once again going to be the laughingstock of Major League General Managers. Once again he grossly overpays for extremely mediocre "Talent". Why Ichiro signed to finish his career with this team is a mystery to me. Bill needs to be shown the door but seeing as how he was resigned for a couple more years it looks like M's fans will have to put up with his antics for an extended engagement. If the Mariners even win 90 games this year I'll be VERY surprised.

Hey Anaheim, you guys want this clown back?

2. It looks like the Yankees are going to once again have the highest payroll in the Majors but I don't think they'll do much in the post season. Of course that is if they even get there. The roster is pretty much the same as last year and granted they had some injuries they barely managed to sneak into the playoffs.

3. Hopefully the Rockies will continue their success of last year.

4. My prediction for the World Series - Boston Red Sox repeat as MLB Champs.

So says the Swami.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/10/2008).]

An interesting note on the Bedard trade, one of the minor leaguers the Mariners sent to the Orioles was Kam Mickolio who is from Belgrade. I remember watching him pitch against my younger brothers and he was really, really good (obviously).

That's one of the best rotations in baseball. If they can stay healthy and score a few runs, they can take on the Angels. This is the move that could save Bavasi's job.

"One of the best in baseball"? Buck I hope you said that with a smile on your face. There's only two pitchers on the starting rotation worth a damn - Bedard and Hernandez. Of these I'd place my money on Bedard. Felix was wildly inconsistent last year. Granted he was injured but still at this point he's almost another Gil Mesch - he's good on some games then subpar for others. I think in a few years he'll improve but right now he's not what the Seattle press would like to believe he is - "King" Felix.

As for saving Bavasi's job, I'll see him on the unemployment line come September.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/10/2008).]

Naw, no smile. You've got 5 guys who are going to give you 6 innings every day and a chance to win.

We'll see if you're as accurate as your Super Bowl prediction.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 2/10/2008).]

Buck:

I am loathe to argue with your great baseball mind, but I've got to point out that Silva sucks. He throws some serious puss.

Adding Bedard helps Seattle a lot, and their rotation looks quite good - but Silva will add little. The man has no heart. Just saying.

Yeah, it's kinda a worry. Just have to hope he isn't getting lit up - but the park should do him good. He never walks anyone. (And he's better than Horacio Ramirez all day).

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 2/10/2008).]

I like the Bedard trade. Adam Jones, the lynchpin of the trade, has been great in the minors and mediocre in the show. I think overall it's a win-win. Bedard is more than happy to be a Mariner. Hell. At least they're trying.
As far as predictions....I'd love to see the Rockies repeat as NL champs but anyone other than Boston or NY in the AL. If not the Mariners (quit chuckling!) I wouldn't mind seeing the Indians break through. Detroit ought to be tough again this year. I hate the Mets but Santana will probably help them.
Is anyone else as convinced as I am that Clemens is a juicer and damn liar?

Yeah, it's kinda a worry. Just have to hope he isn't getting lit up - but the park should do him good. He never walks anyone. (And he's better than Horacio Ramirez all day).

-----

Well, Buck, you're right. And if Silva's sinker is working, he'll be tough in Seattle. But motivation is an issue with Carlos.

The Mariners, who I have been a huge fan of since 1994 (yes, one year before their magical 1995 season)... are going to be horrible (again) this year. All you need to know is this link: http://ussmariner.com/

The 2008 season simulated over 100 times, comes up with an average record of 77-85. The best was 93 wins. The worst was 59 wins.

I'm not sure it is really going to be as bad as the average, but still, 77 wins isn't going to win anything.

I'm so disgusted with the Seattle ownership and management; I think I need to find a new team. Perhaps Colorado holds more promise.

Their "Magical Season" meant diddly squat. They got humbled by ex-Mariner Manager Mike Hargrove who was managing Cleveland at the time. It wasn't the Mariners who supposedly saved baseball here in Seattle. Rather it was the State Legislature completely and willfully ignoring the will of the voters by deciding to go ahead and fund a new stadium anyhow voters be damned.

It's funny how excited people here get about that season when you compare it to the history of the other team they entered the league with - the Toronto Blue Jays. They get excited about finally getting themselves out of the perennial MLB cellar (of which they're mired in all over again) when the Jays won themselves two World Series titles.

Pat Gillick (sp) had a brain on him. Bill Bavasi does not. Gillick made the right moves and trades. Bill Bavasi has continually made one boneheaded trade after another and simply let others go without decent compensation.

It's amusing to watch Mariners management/owners continually stumble over themselves in an effort to achieve MLB mediocrity.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/10/2008).]

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I'd imagine that simulation had them winning about 60 last year. Baseball is a game of intangibles.

I love it Kyle - I'm sure the hometown boys appreciate having folks like you writing them into the cellar months before the season begins. Go cheer for the Yankees, they could use your help.

P.S. Get a thesaurus out and see what you can find for mediocrity, it's old after the hundredth time.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 2/10/2008).]

Buck,

When Bill Bavasi has made the decisions he's made since becoming the Mariners GM it's a no-brainer to write the Mariners off before the season even starts.

Here is just a partial list of his "Accomplishments":

The signings of:
Scott Speizio,Aaron Sele, Pokey Reese, Carl Everett, Jarrod Washburn, Jeff Weaver, Matt Lawton.

Letting the following leave town:

Jamie Moyer, Mike Cameron & Bret Boone among others.

Ok so maybe the word mediocre isn't the right term I should use here.

I prefer to use the term laughable.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/10/2008).]

You don't watch enough baseball to even complain right.

Bavasi sucks, I'm in total agreement, but he sent Moyer away as a favor to one of the all-time good guys. If you think Boone was a loss, you're juiced and you're really down on Washburn. Bitch about Richie and I'll give you some credit.

And how's this for you? I wish they'd resign Weaver for a year - maybe not for the $8 mil he got last year, but the dude pitched a couple complete games, enough for a $2 mil deal and a shot in the pen.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 2/10/2008).]

Mariner fan here too. Moyer is well past the age of most effective pitchers. It was going to cost to much to keep him, and hope he hangs on for 3 or 4 more years. The fact that he may well do that, can't be blamed on management. It's an aberation at best. Mike Cameron? Throw him a curve ball, and watch him walk slowly to the dugout. Pretty good outfielder, but mediocre hitter at best. And Ichiro is better suited for centerfield anyway, so no loss there. And Bret Boone? After his obviously steroid induced season, he got the huge deal, and went straight into the tank. No steroids, no production. I know there is no evidence of steroid use by Boone, other than the massive numbers. Did he just forget how to hit with millions in his pocket? I could have out hit him with a wiffle bat, for way less money. Something pretty funny there if you ask me. I like the trade for Bedard. Those of you that don't like it, propose a different trade that makes more sense than standing still. Without the horrible weather at the start of last year, resulting in 47 games in 48 days near the end of the year, they very well might have won the west.
I have socks older than Felix Hernandez. He is going to be great very soon. All the skills are there. He just needs to learn how to pitch with his head. And I see it coming soon. And Weaver started very slow last year, but finished quite strong.
My biggest concern is Sexton. I would have him start hitting in January. Then maybe he wont play the first 3 months of the season hitting .150 If he and Beltre start hitting earlier, this team will win the west. Even Peter (The Spitter) Gammons thinks they are the clear favorite in the west. Bedard was 13 - 5 last year in Baltimore I think. Put those numbers in, and if Felix matures just a little, this team will contend.

Now that's a Mariners fan. Word up.

Buck,

Richie's too easy a target. Carlos Guillen, Freddie Garcia as well as Jamie Moyer even in his age he was an effective pitcher who the Mariners could at least count on to get some decent innings. True he may have done it as a "Favor" as you say but when we get squat in compensation for him I still call it a bonehead move and one more example of Bavasi's incompetence.

As for not watching enough baseball to complain right I'm simply commenting on the ineptitude that is Bavasi. Did you see the tribute to Ken Griffey Jr last year? I wonder if those 45,000+ fans who booed Bavasi would agree with my assessment of the man.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/10/2008).]

Go CUBS!!!! This is the year (right? RIGHT!?!) Oh God please be the year................

Without delving too far into stats... the 2007 Mariners scored only 794 runs while allowing 813... yet amazingly finished the season 88 (wins) vs 74 (losses)... thus violating Bill James' Pythagorean Theorem... which is kind of a basic measurement for figuring out how well a team might or should do in baseball.

Last season, the Mariners sucked, over achieved for a period, got people excited, then Mike Hargrove quit at the height of it, and then the team sucked again. IMO, the fact that the team sucked after Hargrove quit had absolutely nothing to do with him. He just knew exactly when to hop into his new red pickup and exit.

Bavasi is a bonehead, and the trades and free agent signings he's done, currently (and in the past), will hurt for years. The other GMs laugh and take advantage of him. To make it short, he's essentially given up the farm and mortgaged it out for short term success, when he hasn't put together a team good enough to accomplish anything.

Given last years statistics, the moves (and non moves, lateral moves, and loss of talent) which have occurred during the off season... it wouldn't surprise me to see the Mariners at about .500 on the 2008 season (81 wins), or even slightly less, as the 100-run sim mentioned above suggests.

I'll be optimistic, and put them in the 80's for the number of wins. However, even that won't get the wildcard or the west.

Geez. Whatever happened to "hope springs eternal"? I'm a diehard Mariners fan. Last year when things were going well and then they hit that 2-16(or whatever) skid, having teeth extracted without lidocaine would have been more comfortable. I still think they could make some noise this year.

Matt...As for Boone being on steroids - He was more beefed up than than a angus bull in his MVP year. Canseco even mentioned it in his book. Yeah. Canseco is a cheating rat, but I think he's told the truth about who's a user and who isn't.

Another bummer - I've been a Braves fan for a long time but lately they're trying to do things on the cheap. They might not be too bad this year but with the Mets (who I hate) in their division it could be a long year.

Mariner fans are very fickle. Bavassi has built the farm system to the extent that he is now able to make trades without mortgaging the future. Adam Jones could be an absolute stud, but the Mariners were able to keep Triunfel(sp?), Morrow, and several other top prospects still developing.

Bedard is one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball. ESPN reports that he is every bit as good-if not better than-Peavy, Santana, Beckett, and Sabathia. Plus, he is relatively cheap for two years. Jeff Weaver made more last year. This deal makes great sense for the Mariners. Buck Martinez, on ESPN, said that the Mariners are the team to beat in the AL West.

The USSMariner site is notoriously fickle on everything the Mariners do. They were pretty adament that the Mariners keep Ryan Anderson, a highly touted pitching prospect a few years ago, instead of trading him for Magglio Ordonez as reportedly being discussed. It is easy to second guess, but sometimes not making a trade is worse. What if Jones struggled to hit .240 again this year for the Mariners? Then what?

It is not a fluke when you look at the Mariners being outscored last year, yet winning 88 games. The offense was tied for 2nd in the league in batting average and struck out less than every team but one. They were in the top half of runs scored at 4.90 a game. The front end of the Mariner rotation was good, and the bullpen excellent. The back end of the Mariner rotation was terrible. The Mariners were able to win close games, by scores such as 4-3, with the top of the rotation and bullpen. With the bottom half of the rotation, they got whooped on a regular basis.

The top three starting pitchers on the staff had ERAs under 4.33, while Weaver (6.12) and Ramirez (7.16) had terrible respective ERAs. Effectively, they have replaced Weaver and Ramirez with Bedard (3.16) and Silva (4.19). If they again score 4.90 runs a game, they will be very tough to beat. Each night, they should trot out a better pitcher than the one that opposes them. The only team I can think of that is similar were the Braves teams of the 1990s, and the Mariners pitchers are better built for postseason success.

I'm excited for this year. They have a few holes in the field, but the offense should be in relatively good shape, pitching could be excellent, and the defense will be outstanding up the middle and at 3rd. There are a few holes defensively, but it will be a good year.

I feel much better now.

Anyone want to make a wager? Mariners win 90+ in 2008, I owe you a six pack. Mariners win less than 90, you owe me a six pack.

I'm in. Whadya like?
And if they win 90, I'll just take the satisfaction.

[This message has been edited by Pluto (edited 2/11/2008).]

Larry,

I hope you enjoy your six-pack cause that bet's gonna be easy money. For a challenge why not say 80 wins? I'd be surprised if they'd get to 85 wins. The unfortunate thing is the person who's gonna take the heat for this laughable season is skipper John McLaren rather than where it should be - Bill Bavasi.

You don't give a man rusty nails, dull drill bits and a broken hammer and then tell him to build a 300 room mansion.

Sadly Bill hasn't given McLaren even that much.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 2/11/2008).]

> I'm in. Whadya like?

Your choice. Got a good local microbrew?

> And if they win 90, I'll just take the satisfaction.

I'll definately give you 90... it's included in the benefit of 90+.

How about this - I'll give you 93 and less or the division (in case it's something like the NL West two years back). 93 hasn't even done it the last couple times, so I'm willing to set the bar there.

So I take that you think the Mariners are going to win the division? I suppose anything is possible in baseball.

Well, I want them make the playoffs and the wild card isn't coming out of the West. It's a two team race and I think they've got an honest chance.

Playoffs or Bust
http://www.komotv.com/news/17125881.html

Better get ready for a bust Mariner fans. Again I'll make a prediction and say that the (cough, cough) Major League team from the Northwest, the Mariners, will once again ride high in the cellar of the AL West.

"We have to start stacking up quality starts," Bavasi said.

This coming from a guy who couldn't manage his way out of a wet paper bag. Let's grossly overpay for "Talent" and then try to contend.

Richie Sexson, Carlos Silva? That's a good one. Trade George Sherril? Good move. Brad Wilkerson. Again, that's a good one. Let's not go out and get halfway decent talent but keep mediocre talent (Sexson) and watch the losses pile up.

One more day and the Mariners can start playing for 2009.

Fire Bavasi and his managerial "Genius" now and they might stand a chance.

Until then enjoy the long, long ride to the cellar.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 3/29/2008).]

Oh Mr. Swami, it's so easy to doubt you what with your dumbass predictions to date. You see the Angels rotation lately or any expert picks beyond the ones you like to read?

Buck,

With the exception of Ichiro, Beltre, Putz & Bedard I'd take this line up:

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
http://losangeles.angels....p?c_id=ana

over this one:

The Seattle Mariners
http://seattle.mariners.m...p?c_id=sea

ANY day of the week.

Despite what John Donovan might want to believe:

http://sportsillustrated....index.html

The Mariners are once again going to miss the playoffs this year and will be a sub-90 team yet again. I've said it before, until they shove Bill Bavasi out the clubhouse door the Mariners will remain the laughingstock of the Majors save the Nationals. They will repeat their "Spectacular" performance of seasons past and will flirt with moments of grandeur until reality sets in and begin to take up stakes in the AL West cellars.

You can't even pick a laughingstock right. And it's always great that you can find an article to evidence your point. It's the friggin' internet, it doesn't prove anything. You'd take the Angels lineup, because you're an M's hater. I don't know why. Willie Bloomquist must have laughed at your manhood in a YMCA shower or something.

You have to look at other factors. First, it's baseball. Did anyone predict the Rockies were going to be in the World Series? The playoffs? Better than 3rd? I'm sure you can check google and find someone who did. Next, how about the strength of the division? Arguably the worst in baseball. You can win a division with 82 victories - look at the NL West two years ago. You should stick to your strengths. Oh wait, that's what you're doing. You hate things. Good work.

You can't even pick a laughingstock right.

Considering they've missed the playoffs the last SEVEN years Buck I think I have picked a pretty good laughingstock.

You'd take the Angels lineup, because you're an M's hater.

No Buck I'd take the Angels because they are the BETTER team, big difference.

The titles:

AL West Champs
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ns_by_year

bear that statement out.

Willie Bloomquist must have laughed at your manhood in a YMCA shower or something

If this is laughing at me Buck:

Willie Bloomquist
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Bloomquist

Then I have nothing to worry about. Average (sort of) position player on a weak team. The division may be weak Buck but the Mariners are even weaker. I'll give you this, they may not be in the cellar but they certainly won't contend with any seriousness this year.

You, Bavasi and the rest of the Mariner fans can continue to keep your heads in the sand on that issue.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 3/31/2008).]

You still didn't pick the right laughingstock. And that's what's sad. Even Willie laughs at your manhood. But you're doing a good job. Professional hater.

Heh, 14-22 record, 8 games back, a sub-.400 average and scoreless in their last 22 innings. Things are looking good Mariner fans.

On the plus side you've only got 126 games left to go until this season is over.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/8/2008).]

I was wondering how long you could resist Kyle. I still don't have a problem with the Mariners bats. They will come around, in a big scary way. But the middle relief is scaring the hell out of me. It looked promising before the season started, but I don't think they could get me out right now. And Putz is not yet showing last years promise to me. They are getting frustated though. When Sexson charges the mound, as he did tonight, on what very well might have been a slipped pitch, things are not looking good.
Baseball comes down to this. Every team will win 60 games, and every team will lose 60 games, baring a freak season. It's what you do in the other 42 that count at the end of the season. And the Mariners have already dipped into that 42 way too much this year. I am still on board, but the Angels look seriously tough. Texas and Oakland will be gone before the middle of July, but we might be too far gone to contend if things don't turn around soon.

Now scoreless in the last 31 innings. Ouch!

Honestly I wish the Mariners could do better than they have the past couple of years. My problem isn't necessarily with the team itself. Rather I have a problem with Bill Bavasi making (or not making) the necessary good trades to make the Mariners a competitive team. Spending $8 million last year for Jeff Weaver? Getting Eric Bedard was fine but I just think they gave up far too much to get him. There's just nothing remotely exciting about this team.

One way Bavasi could inject some life into this team would be to get the Kid back in a Mariner uniform where he belongs. He could play for another 5 years at least being on the DH.

But that would be a smart move from a guy not known for making smart moves.

I'm afraid I have to admire Kyle's restraint. I wouldn't have blamed him if he'd chimed in two weeks ago. I also have a feeling heads will roll if things don't change fast with the M's. I hope the first one is Bavasi's.

In the meantime - the Rockies better get their act together - the D-backs are looking mighty tough.

I'm just waiting until Buck has to send me my six-pack.

Current stats:

- lowest winning percentage in all of MLB
- lost 11 of 13
- 31 errors in 41 games

History as of this day (May 13th):

2002: .703 winning PCT <- final .574 (93-69) - 3rd place AL West
2003: .632 winning PCT <- final .574 (93-69) - 2nd place AL West
2004: .304 winning PCT <- final .389 (63-99) - last place AL West
2005: .400 winning PCT <- final .426 (69-93) - last place AL West
2006: .421 winning PCT <- final .481 (78-84) - last place AL West
2007: .515 winning PCT <- final .543 (88-74) - 2nd place AL West
2008: .375 winning PCT <- projected (61-101) - last place AL West

Looking forward to that six-pack Buck.

You'll have to wait like all the other kids.

> One way Bavasi could inject some life into this team would be to get the Kid back in a Mariner uniform where he belongs. He could play for another 5 years at least being on the DH.

I agree, well not necessarily 5 years, but for a couple or a few perhaps.

1st, if we are going to lose anyway (seems certain for this year), why not bring him back (???) -- especially if we can do it for basically nothing. And 2nd, he'll bring big bucks to the owners (they seem to like money). I guarantee attendance will increase the instant "The Kid" arrives (even if he is an old man now).

He's not the greatest player in the world anymore, however, he's also certainly not the worst -- and Seattle seems to be collecting some of the most expensive junk around (e.g. Vidro, Sexson, etc.). Ditch some of it, and get Griffey instead!

Buck, I'll add an addendum to our original bet, in that if Griffey comes back this year ... I'll flat out offer a six-pack of your choice.

Get busy Buck!

Griffey would be great, but hell, at this point I'd even take Bonds.

Not scoring runs, that's something I totally expected, but this team has no excuse for failure on defense (except that losing takes a mental toll.)

I think the chance of Griffey coming back is realistic. The Reds are another team underperforming and they're making room for youngsters - a luxury the M's don't have.

I'd still prefer to see Bonds, at least things would be interesting.

My new fear is that everyone sucks it up so bad we don't even have trade pieces for a rebuilding effort. Anyone want a slow, weak-armed left fielder? He hits more than the rest of the team.

TEAM W L % GB
Los Angeles 24 17 .585 -
Oakland 23 17 .575 0.5
Texas 20 21 .488 4.0
Seattle 15 26 .366 9.0

This is just pitiful. Eric Bedard can't keep a lead and nobody else on the team can make it through at least one inning without making an error. Felix Hernandez is, just like last year, inconsistent at best. The rest of the line-up isn't any better.

Webmaster, here's a good place to start looking for your winning brew:
http://milescity.com/foru...fpid=46463

Enjoy!

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/14/2008).]

Ditch some of it, and get Griffey instead!

Again though that would be a smart move from a guy world renown for doing the exact opposite. The rumor that I've heard floating around is that once Griffey hits 600 homeruns the Reds will be looking to trade him.

Trade market getting ready to open for business
http://msn.foxsports.com/...r-business

Here's hoping that Bavasi will get at least some brain cells going and make a trade for The Kid.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/14/2008).]

I was thinking about this - we can afford to give up exactly nothing for Griffey. I know, I know, we gave up a lot for Bedard - who, when not giving up half a dozen home runs will still not be a bad deal - but if they want something other than Jeremy Reed and Mike Morse, this will be a bad deal for the future.

> I was thinking about this - we can afford to give up exactly nothing for Griffey.

I agree that the Mariners shouldn't give up anything of real value to get Griffey.

However, if they can throw some junk to get him, or if the Reds will eat his contract, then why not do it. I think he's in his last year there (would have to look it up) and I don't think he's going to get an extension. I don't think they are really even promoting his rise to 600 home runs.

His stats are better than a bunch of the junk on this team though. An exchange for Reed and Morse would be awesome in some sort of metaphysical karma type way.

If the Reds want someone who can "hit", give them Vidro. If they want someone who can "pitch", give them Washburn. (Although, after today, I'm starting to think -- hmmm, perhaps he might be a fairly good reliever.) But relievers are a dime a dozen. (Other than some of the best ones we've traded away anyway -- thank you Bill.)

The big problem with bringing back Griffey, is that it would be fun at first, but then the crowd won't figure out he's not "The Kid" anymore ... and then it would probably turn ugly.

I expect Griffey wants to retire here, but only at the end, after a short stint or a one day thing or something. If he ever gets into the HOF, I'm sure he'll go in as a Mariner. Coming back and not living up to past expectations ... well, that could be quite painful to see.

His contract expires at the end of the year so I assume that rather than let him go and get nothing they'll trade him after he hits 600. He's got a "No Trade" clause in his contract so unless he waves it to go to Seattle I don't imagine he'll go someplace else and might enter the free-agent market. Hopefully the Mariners won't give up too much to get him back in an M's uniform but I hope that Bavasi at least gives serious thought to bringing him back.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/14/2008).]

The sent a scout to look at him yesterday or the day before, I think he might have been sitting. I'd imagine he'd waive his no-trade for the M's - he did say he wants to end his career there.

I'd not even object to paying for him, they just can't give up a bunch of youngsters.

Player A: OBP = .332, SLG = .380, OPS = .712
Player B: OBP = .338, SLG = .379, OPS = .716

Who is Player A? Ichiro Suzuki
Who is Player B? K. Griffey Jr.

RYHI you want to see this again.



[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/15/2008).]

Buck,

Here's the article:

Mariner exec Shaffer taking a look at Griffey
http://blog.seattlepi.nws...source=rss

Some problems according to the article:

Raul Ibanez would probably have to move to DH to open up an outfield spot for Griffey.

Probably not. As I've said Griffey could easily move to the DH and get about 5+ more years out of his great career.

Griffey would be moving farther away from home to play for the Mariners.

This is almost funny. One of the main reasons for him leaving in the first place was for his children. But as another article I read someplace said this isn't as big an issue for him now as it was back in 2000 when he was traded.

From the Dayton Daily News:

Seattle Looking At Griffey
http://www.daytondailynew...iffey.html

MLB Trade Rumors
http://www.mlbtraderumors...end-e.html

Things are getting pretty interesting.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/15/2008).]

One more reason to love The Kid:

150,000 pennies for your thoughts
http://www.daytondailynew...ieces.html

I also seem to recall that Griffey bet Lou Pinella a steak dinner a few years back and paid it off by buying him a full-on holstein cow and putting it in his office.

Anyone else remember that or am I mistaken?

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/15/2008).]

Oh, geez ... the M's are even worse than I thought they would be.

They just gave up 30 runs in 3 games to Detroit, which is a team perhaps under performing, but still the bottom dweller of AL Central.

The start of the season I was thinking 81-81 ... give or take 1 game (basically 80-82 wins).

At this pace, the Mariners are set for 61 wins.

The simulations I posted (way up above ^) had them at an average of 77 wins (59 worst and 93 best).

The thing is, they've been playing bad teams ... and here comes the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, etc. It seems inevitable they will now get completely and utterly destroyed.

Actually I'm hoping they do ... perhaps some change will come about from it.

This is just sad. I have yet to crunch the numbers but I think if this keeps up they'll replace the 1992 Seattle Mariners as the worst team in Mariners history.

1992 Seattle Mariners Season
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

Let the ride to baseball oblivion continue.....

Yeah, it is pretty horrible. I hope they don't go canning McLaren, but Bavasi might try it to save his own hide. It won't work, he shoulda been gone 3 years ago.

So much for hope springs eternal. Watching the Mariners this season is like watching your own kid being tortured.

Adjust that now to 43 runs given up in 4 games. Lost 17 of the past 22 games. Now on pace for 60 wins (102 losses).

http://www.baseball-refer...teams/SEA/

The 2004 team (99 losses) was worse than the 1992 one (98 losses). The absolute worst Mariners team ever had 104 losses in 1978.

They might as well go for it, and try to break the record.

They might as well go for it, and try to break the record.

Hell, why not set their sights on, go for broke and try to break the all-time MLB record for losses:

1899 Cleveland Spiders NL 20 134 .130

Or in the Modern Era:

1962 New York Mets NL 40 120 .250

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...on_records

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/24/2008).]

Well, at least the postgame comments from Ichiro were funny ...

Ichiro: "Playing on this team and seeing what is happening around me, I feel that something is beginning to fall apart," Ichiro said, through a translator. "But, if I was not in this situation, and I was objectively watching what just happened this week, I would probably be drinking a lot of beers and booing."

Reporter: "What kind of beer?"

Ichiro: "Usually I enjoy Japanese beer, but given the situation, if I was objectively watching the game, I wouldn't care if it was Japanese beer, American beer or beer from Papua New Guinea."

It's time to break 'em up and shoot for a decent season in, say, 2012.

55 runs in just 5 games!? Honestly at this point I don't even know why the Mariners even bother showing up at the ball park. The Umps should just spot the opposing team 6 runs by the first inning and then just call the game. This is getting way out of hand and beyond ridiculous.

$120+ Million in payroll gets you this kind of a team?

At least he recognizes part of the problem.

M's GM Bavasi: 'This is not a field manager issue.'
http://www.komoradio.com/...35629.html

Now if he would only look in the mirror and recognize the other part.......

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/24/2008).]

As Kyle pointed out, now 55 runs given up in 5 games ... and the Mariners have 1 more to play with the Yankees, before moving on to a series with the Red Sox (the best team in all of MLB).

Right now the Mariners are on pace for 104 losses. Woohoo. Perhaps they'll break the 1978 team record. After Boston gets done with them, they might be on a better pace to even outdo the 1962 Mets. And this is with an ~ $120M dollar payroll (one of the highest in baseball).

The young "King Felix" (a core element of the team), apparently has a calf injury, so it could get even uglier.

I would rather they jettison a bunch of the crap, and bring up kids from Tacoma ... even if the record ended up exactly the same ... I'd rather watch the kids try to win than this pile of junk.

That's another unfortunate thing - who is anyone going to want from this team? I can see Raul going in trade, but Richie or Beltre? And why did that jerkass Bavasi sign Johjima for six more years, is he just trying to screw the team for years after he's gone?

One semi-hopeful thing to note is that the 2003 Detroit Tigers went from this:

2003 Detroit Tigers 43-119 .265%
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

To this:

2006 Detroit Tigers AL Champions
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

In just three seasons. It's a long-shot, but at this point it's all the M's have to look forward to.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/24/2008).]

And unfortunately, the Mariners went from this ...

2001 Seattle Mariners 116-46 .716%
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

To this in the same amount of time ...

2004 Seattle Mariners 63-99 .389%
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

That's a drop of 53 wins in 3 years. I have no faith in the organization until Bavasi and Armstrong's heads are on sticks. Throw Lincoln's head on one too.

Upper level management is the problem, not the players. The players can only do the best they can ... and that's what they're doing ... the best they can ... and they suck.

This just made me laugh.

Mariners president backs his staff. Armstrong says McLaren, Bavasi not in danger of losing jobs
http://seattle.mariners.m...p&c_id=sea

I was going to pick a quote or two out of this article for everyone to laugh at but upon further review I think the article just speaks for itself.

I wonder what the prevailing thoughts are on the M's message board?

http://www.forums.mlb.com...l-mariners

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/24/2008).]

I found this one from the USSM blog quite entertaining ...

http://ussmariner.com/200...eadership/

> This just made me laugh.
http://seattle.mariners.m...p&c_id=sea

OMG. I just read it. That entire article can be ripped to shreds. There are just too many points to even bring up.

After he gets fired after this season Bill Bavasi can always fall back on his career as a motivational speaker.

Bill Bavasi Motivational Speaker Extraordinaire.

"It's purely related to player performance and underachieving."

"We're looking for the players to step up and play like they can, not like they want to."

"Good teams just don't tolerate it. Sometimes, that is making demands on each other, and good teams do that. They point things out that are being done wrong and demand they do them right."

IT'S OFFICIAL!! AT 18-31, THE MARINERS HAVE THE WORST &*%$ING RECORD IN MLB! BUT I'M NOT GIVING UP YET! ONE THIRTY-GAME WIN STREAK AND THEY CAN GET BACK INTO THIS THING!

ONE THIRTY-GAME WIN STREAK AND THEY CAN GET BACK INTO THIS THING!

Thank you for that Bob. I was looking for a good laugh and you provided it and then some. I love these Mariners. They can't get a lead on anybody and when they do they can't keep it to save their lives.

Heh.

Anyhow here's something fun for Mariner's fans to do.

2008 Seattle Mariner Game Log
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...n#Game_log

Salmon = A Loss

Lime Green = A Win

Using the remaining squares, color in your predictions for the rest of the 2008 Seattle Mariner's season.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/25/2008).]

I'm afraid I didn't need colored graphics to put this season into perspective.

New York 25-26 .490% 5.5 games back - Mariners get swept out The House That Ruth Built

Tonight they go against the Bo-Sox

Boston 31-22 .580% 0.5 games back

Any predictions?

So Tampa Bay finally made it into MLB first place. And they have like what, a $40 million dollar payroll or something (one of the lowest in baseball)?

Meanwhile, Seattle has something like a $120 million dollar payroll (one of the highest) and are at the exact opposite end of the spectrum in MLB last place.

The ESPN "AccuScore" preview has Seattle as a "favorite" at a 51% chance of winning tonight's game, and Boston with a 49% chance. I'm wondering exactly how they figured that out.

http://sports.espn.go.com...=280526112

Hernandez hasn't pitched in a while, and days earlier, was reportedly limping around with a hurt leg. I'd bet the Red Sox spank the Mariners, but I suppose anything is possible, and mostly depends upon whether "Good Felix" or "Bad Felix" shows up tonight. I guess we'll have to see what happens.

List Of Major League Baseball Teams By Payroll
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...by_payroll

29. Tampa Bay Devil Rays $43,820,598 - 1st Place in the AL. East

9. Seattle Mariners $117,993,982 - In the MLB Cellars

Money can't buy you everything.....

It's sad that the only way to fill up Safeco Field these days is with fans of opposing teams and "Give Away" nights.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/26/2008).]

Well I guess on a semi-positive note they at least got past the 3rd inning using a single pitcher, but as is usual another loss is added to the ever increasing pile. Changes need to happen and they need to happen FAST. From the top down this team needs an overhaul. Armstrong, Lincoln, Bavasi and, sad to say it, McLaren all need to have pink slips given to them come Tuesday. They're doing one thing right - spending money. The only problem is that they're spending it in all the wrong places and on the wrong people.

I have to laugh whenever I go to the Mariners website and I see the people they're offering up for All-Star consideration. Of the 8 only Ichiro and Ibanez are who I'd consider to be on the All-Star roster.

It's going to be one long season.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/27/2008).]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle! The Mariners won, not only one game but two in a row, and won against the Red Sox no less! While I still think they won't do much this season, they're still pitiful to watch, maybe this will turn things around for them somewhat.

I'm a little bit impressed. Not a whole lot, but just a little.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 5/28/2008).]

Just tuned in, and see the Mariners are behind 7-1 in the 3rd to the Tigers ... missed the first part of the game ... but already looks like more of the same.

Hey now - Silva managed to get two outs. Give him some credit.

Did anyone witness McClaren's eruption today? I wish I could find a video for it somewhere as it was priceless.

M's Brass Has Had It
http://www.komonews.com/s...53379.html

Evidently they've not had nearly enough as Bavasi, Chuck Armstrong & McLaren himself are still there as of today. From the top down, heads need to roll and not from the bottom up where typically the manager gets fired and there the paper trail ends.

WOW! I didn't see the game. IMO, real change needs to come from top down, not bottom up. However, they will probably attempt it from bottom up. And now they are about to get their asses kicked big time. So it will get even worse. The stadium the Red Sox play in, with The Big Green Monster, is not friendly to mediocre visiting teams.

If this sort of "Team Play" keeps up I can see McLaren getting the boot during the All-Star game. The question remains as to who would take his place. I'm not sure who's out there or who would even want to come to this poor excuse for a team/organization. The team needs a top-down firesale and needs it fast. I recently read somewhere that the Mariners are in the dubious position of being so far behind that they have virtually no hope of getting anywhere close to the post-season.

1. Chuck Armstrong

2. Bill Bavasi

3. John McLaren

...Need to go in that order.

I completely agree with that order.

I think no team who has ever been more than 16 games under .500, has EVER made it to the post season.

Not sure how far back the Mariners are now, but probably pretty damn close. In any case, they will NEVER make it to the post season ... not this year any way.

I think they should also deal anyone that can get them some young arms and hitters. I heard they're 7-20 in their last 27.

Calling this team "mediocre", Webmaster, is like calling a fence lizard Godzilla.

I had a lot of hope for this team this spring. Man, have they sucked!

This is just priceless!

Bavasi says he's mostly stuck with current M's
http://www.komonews.com/n...86769.html

Bavasi said again McLaren's job is not the issue, that his players are.

"I can't make a deal anyway right now that's worth a damn," Bavasi said.

He couldn't make deals worth a damn to begin with much less right now. It looks like Sexson (who's getting $14 million this season) and Jose Vidro are going to be the first to go. From Sexson's reaction to Bavasi's order to stay put for a team meeting it looks like he sees the writing on the wall.

He did not follow Bavasi's unusual order that all players man their posts immediately after Wednesday's loss. He appeared about 15 minutes into the availability, showered and dressed, for a brief walk-by of his locker before disappearing into an off-limits eating area.

Let the implosion continue.

I must say, on accassion... once, Kyle you are right. I mean, about the Mariners sucking. The need to fire Bavasi has never been a point of discussion. If he isn't toast this year, I'm finding a new team to root for. I suppose he'll make sure to screw us for the future and resign Richie long-term. There isn't any deals worth a damn because there aren't any players worth a damn - watch him send off Felix, Morrow, Clement, and Ballentein because we need a veteran presence.

One thought driven home is better than three left on base.

Well now that he's hit number 600 hopefully the Mariners and Reds can get something done to bring him back home. Congrats to The Kid on 600 homeruns.

Would he really want to join that mess?

By the way, the Mariners fired their hitting coach. Look for a HUGE
turnaround.

Bob,

They're going to have to fire at least three more people inorder to turn this team around. As usual the M's front office misses the point and only addresses one-one thousandth of the problem this team has.

Here are the changes I would make to the front office from the top on down.

Those Deserving Of Pink Slips On Wednesday:

Howard Lincoln
Chuck Armstrong
Bill Bavasi
John McLaren
Richie Sexson
Kenji Johjima

The list goes on.......

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 6/10/2008).]

I agree,Kyle. I was being sarcastic. Maybe they should find some sluggers and enclose that stadium to give the ball some carry. Small-ball doesn't work in the AL. In the mean time, the entire organization needs to be reworked.

This really sums up Bavasi's work:

http://seattletimes.nwsou...tes26.html

You know, that it's a bad contract.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 6/11/2008).]

Buck,

What's even sadder is that because of the contract extension, I can say with almost 100% certainty that Jeff Clement will be gone by the time Kenji's new contract is up.

Jeff ought to start packing his bags now. On the plus side however at least he'll be going to a better team with a manager who knows Clement's value.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 6/12/2008).]

Here's a good summary and lead up to the implosion now occurring:

http://baseballanalysts.c...foible.php

I don't really see this as an implosion. It's more like putrifaction.

Interesting trade rumors already - talking about shipping Bedard out, hope he gives us a few good starts, get his value up a little.

Buck,

Where did you hear this rumor? It seems about right for Bavasi: Get reamed in a trade deal and then turn around and deal the guy you got reamed for. I have no idea who'd they trade for but Griffey comes to mind but I doubt they'd do that.

Then again this IS Bill Bavasi we're talking about here.

They're talking about sending him to the Phillies for prospects, probably not a bad idea considering they paid the farm for him.

http://www.mlbtraderumors...d-spe.html

Gillick is with the Phillies, so they have that little connection going.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 6/13/2008).]

It's too late ... why would Jr. want to go to a team being run by "The Three Stooges" currently sitting in LAST PLACE OF ALL MLB?

Most likely, we'll see him for a very, very short period right before he retires -- finishing his career, hopefully, in a final blaze of glory as a Mariner.

Unfortunately, that will probably be in 2010 or so ... thanks again BILL.

Same old Mariners. They have a 4-1 lead going into the 8th inning and then just give it to the Braves. Pack your bags Batista you won't have a job much longer with such a "Stellar" performance.

I guess on the plus side they at least HAD a lead going into the 8th but the "Good Ol' Mariners" rear their heads once more.

Ok as if this season wasn't weird already Felix Hernandez, yes the PITCHER of all people, gives the Mariners the lead with a Grand Slam? WTF? This season just keeps getting stranger and stranger.

As of 5:20pm

****! Felix was pitching a gem of a game and now goes down with an injury. Hopefully it isn't too serious but judging by the look on his face it could be bad.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 6/23/2008).]

Felix says he should make his next start.

Mariners won tonight 11-0 over the Mets. Dickey looked decent. WTF?

Back to form tonight.

Here's something for Mariner fans to discuss here: What is the consensus on Mariner's play-by-play man, Dave Niehaus heading to Cooperstown? Is it deserved or not? Considering he's missed roughly 82 games out of the nearly 5,000 the Mariners have played since their inception I'd say he's deserving of the honor. I'm looking forward to seeing his speech and the special tomorrow on FSN about his first trip to the Hall Of Fame.

On another note it looks like the M's are doing pretty well tonight. Hopefully they can start improving now but jettisoning Batista, Silva, Vidro & Sexson would make for a good first start.

Also it's good to see Washburn getting some run support FINALLY. He should have at least four more wins on his record but he either got no run support or the bullpen blew the lead he had when he left. Hopefully they'll be able to hold it tonight.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 6/27/2008).]

I like Dave. The fact he hasn't blown his own brains out after seeing that many Mariners games ought to get him into the Hall.

The Mariners did win tonight...but it was against the Padres....cellar dwellers in the weakest division in the MLB. The D-backs are 40-40 but lead the division.

[This message has been edited by Bob Netherton (edited 6/27/2008).]

Wow, how about that game last night! Adrian Beltre tomahawks a homerun to get the M's within 1 of Toronto. Then Richie Sexson of all people blasts a homerun in the bottom of the 8th to tie it up. Then as if that wasn't weird enough Willie Bloomquist drives in the winning run in the bottom of the 9th.

They maybe 20+ games back in the AL West but it looks like a vastly different team with Riggleman at the helm than with MacLaren and Bavasi. They seem to be having a lot more fun and seem to be looser than they were at the start of the year.

Perhaps they can make a good run at West.

Perhaps.

I must say that I'm starting to be increasingly impressed with the Mariners performances as of late. It seems that the pitching is slowly starting to come around (Carlos Silva being the exception) and that they're doing the little things necessary to win games. They certainly stumble every now and then but it's nowhere near what it was a couple months ago. Brandon Morrow and Ryan Rowland-Smith are looking really good as is the rest of the bullpen.

I'm a little disappointed with the play of Jeff Clement but he is a rookie after all and that will all sort itself out.

While I don't expect them to make a serious run at the playoffs it looks like things are starting to come around for the M's.

All of a sudden they're playing like superstars baby ... perhaps instead of a 106 loss season they'll hit my mark of .500 (give or take a game).

You may need to pay Buck that 6-pack of beer after all if this keeps up.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 7/9/2008).]

Although I relieved Buck from his obligation, and as Bob Netherton mentioned above "whatever happened to hope springs eternal", I still think the Mariners are going to end up at least 10 back from our bet ... so pretty sure I'm still safe.

Since Bavasi and McLaren both got canned and rumors of the old Nintendo man in Japan wanting to sell his share to a Microsoft partner in the ownership group ... I'm now rooting for them, instead of against them ...

Tides are a changing, but my god, it will probably take forever ...

Well seeing as how they just jettisoned Richie Sexson the "Tides Of Change" are looking oh so good! Goodbye Mr. "$7 million for a .215 average"! It looks like the last of Bavasi's mistakes are being purged and man does it feel good.

Amen. Vidro needs to go next. Since he'll be getting more playing time now, I'm guessing if he continues to suck ... it won't be long.

I've heard trade rumors of Adrian Beltre going to the Phillies, and Bedard going somewhere as well. I'd like to seem them keep Beltre as he's pretty damn good at 3rd. His bat might not be totally there but it's good enough.

Vidro just sucks, plain and simple. The guy's also a major headcase. The same goes for Bedard. The guy won't pitch past 100 pitches and gets injuries every other game? Ship him off as well.

I have to say I like Jim Riggleman and the job he's been doing. Hopefully he can keep it up.

If Silva and Bedard had delivered half of what was expected, The Mariners might be in almost decent shape. Now they both look like total mistakes. I agree....ship'em. Dickey has looked good at times.
I was pulling for Sexson but enough is enough.

Is there any decent talent down on the farm?

No trade looming for Bedard, as he is on disabled list, both physically and mentally it appears. His shoulder has been sore all year, and we would have to give him away now. I don't think even the Yankees are that dumb. If he comes back and gets 2 quality starts, Steinbrenner might just bail us out. We can only hope at this point. I am going to miss Richie, but it was time to move on. I think I could hit .211, for half that money. I just hope they shopped him some before giving him his outright release. Do we get some relief if he get's picked up by another club?

With all this talk of the Olympics I've forgotten how the Mariners are doing. Let's see shall we.

Hmmm, out of 18 games played in the month of August the Mariners have lost 13 with only 5 wins to show. It looks like they're back to their usual routine of getting shelled in the first 4 innings with the rest of the team looking to climb out of a big hole.

So since the last post in this topic on the 10th of July the Mariners have played a total of 35 games and have lost 25 of them, winning 10.

Like the old song goes:

"So welcome back baby, to the poor side of town."

Yeah, it is so depressing (not only for this year, but for some to come) ... I haven't found the strength to do my bitch rant.

Basically, they are playing for last place in all of MLB ... and they are even losing at that ... I believe they're currently second.

Now, if they come in last place, I think they get 1st pick and a really awesome stud is up for grabs ... unfortunately, the Mariners will screw this up too and come in 2nd place ... and lose that pick.

After watching Minnesota spank them using their patented small ball type play, at a fraction of the cost, I've considered becoming a Twins fan ... although that new stadium they're building scares me. I can't imagine a game there in early April.

This is far too funny. I just went to the M's website and they don't even HAVE the AL West Standings up there anymore.

http://seattle.mariners.m...p?c_id=sea

(Enter at your own risk)

I guess they don't want people to know just how far out of anything the M's truly are.

The Angeles on the other hand.....

http://losangeles.angels....p?c_id=ana

TEAM W L % GB
Los Angeles 76 48 .613 -
Texas 62 65 .488 15.5
Oakland 57 69 .452 20.0
Seattle 46 80 .365 31.0

Ouch.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 8/20/2008).]

31 games back, in your own division, which is the smallest of all MLB (as it only has 4 teams) is pretty damn bad. I wonder if the old Mariners from 1993 or before were ever that horrible -- especially considering the revenue the M's bring in.

Wasn't there something several years ago, give or take, that stated the Mariners organization was one of the most profitable sports franchises in existence at the time?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ers_season

This is sad. They're a little behind pace to eclipse the '92 team as being the worst ever in M's history. Only 19 more games to go and they do it.

They've got 36 games left on the docket and with them losing 25 of their last 35 I think it's highly doable.

I also see Junior finally hit a home run ... it's apparent he's not the same kid as before, he's more of an old man ... I didn't watch the game, but I root for him ... if he wouldn't have suffered the injuries, he would be the home run king ... (with no asterisk)

http://sports.espn.go.com...=280820104

And oh, yeah, nice job Mariners ...

Well here it is nearly 2 weeks until the end of the season and thumbing through the posts here I came across this little wager:

MilesCity.com Webmaster: Anyone want to make a wager? Mariners win 90+ in 2008, I owe you a six pack. Mariners win less than 90, you owe me a six pack.

Buck Showalter: I'm in. Whadya like?
And if they win 90, I'll just take the satisfaction.

Current Mariners record:

Seattle W-55 L-86 %.390 Games Back - 30.0

Hope you've got your favorite one all picked out Webmaster. 55 wins with only 21 games left. They only need to win one to avoid the distinction of having the worst record in Mariners history. Even this team isn't that pathetic and should win 65 this season which would place them, not counting the 2 strike years 6th on the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...rs_seasons

Hooray for futility!

Incidentally, in reading this thread in its entirety I think the Swami hit the bullseye on his prediction

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 9/7/2008).]

Every dog has his day.

Here's a sad statistic for Mariners fans.

Felix Hernandez failed tonight in his bid to become the 1st Mariners pitcher this season have double-digit (10+) wins.

Ouch!

Great Quote of The Day:

I've seen statues at first base that move faster than you. - Dave Simms Mariner Commentator on Carlos Delgato re. Carlo's performance early in the season.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 9/24/2008).]

Why were they talking about Delgado?... Who did in fact have an amazing year despite the choke artist club he plays for.

Evidently he was getting some crap in June from the Mets fans.

I will admit though Kyle, you were right. I think it was probably a 75% chance that you'd be right and 25% for me. This is a team that had the talent to win, but not the attitude - now it's time to rebuild, a process that I usually enjoy were it not for the horrible management of the team. Why are Ibanez, Washburn, Beltre, Batista, and everyone else over the age of 30 still on the roster? Maybe no one wants Washburn or Batista, but there is no excuse to not trade Beltre and Ibanez.

Other season highlights - Richie Sexson charges the mound - that ball was no where close to his head, which explains his ability to strike out on pitches low and four feet outside the strike zone.

McLaren blows his top - doesn't matter, this team was prepared to continue losing, but it's a decent rant.

Tug Huelett - gotta love that name.

I caught a couple of Tacoma Rainiers games this season and there's a lot of good talent down there that I think should be brought up. Toui, Tug and a couple others I can't recall off-hand. Beltre I like but he hasn't produced much and liking a player doesn't produce wins. Raul should be traded as his stock has gone up these past couple months.

One guy I really like is Ryan Rowland-Smith. I think this guy has got some really good stuff and should make a great starter next year for the Mariners.

This season I think was just a fluke. I think they'll probably be a lot better next year.

I hope.

WoooHooo! Pop the cork Mariner fans it's time to celebrate! The Mariners have just made history by becoming the first team to lose 100 games with a 100 million dollar payroll.

Congratulations Mariners:



I thought this was pretty funny:

A Morsel Of Goodness This Mariners Season
http://www.pimpstyle2000....hread=2299

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (edited 9/24/2008).]