So, I've got an old dell desktop that I'm giving to a family member. I've gone through and deleted all of the files that were on it via recycle bin then emptying the bin; however, I'd like to permanently erase any files (as my banking, etc. isn't anyone else's business ) but leave all of the programs (MS WORD, etc.). How the heck do I do this???

Well, that's going to be pretty hard to do. I would suggest wiping it clean and reinstalling everything from scratch.

That would be easy except I don't have any of the installation CDs or any kind of a software key... Now you see my conundrum!

If you bought the computer from Dell, and never received CDs, then perhaps there is a hidden partition on the hard disk containing the original OEM software from which it can be reinstalled. (???)

If not, http://www.ccleaner.com/ will remove a bunch of your history. However, simply deleting stuff, is not exactly the most secure thing in the world.

Personally, I would not give a computer away without wiping it clean and reinstalling the original software associated with the box.

Your Dell should have come with a restore disk. If you don't have it anymore you may be able to get a new one from Dell, I dunno. If it's the hidden partition you should see a message that says something along the lines of "Hit F11 to start recovery" while it's booting up. That's what it does on my Gateway laptop anyway.

Besides... you don't want to set someone up with a computer running applications when you don't have the discs. If ever anything corrupts or otherwise requires popping the original disc in... they're screwed. Even Windows has a built-in "repair" feature that fixes weird things by simply putting the install disc in and running a fix routine.

It's not unheard of to have Windows request that disc be put in sometimes when things go wonky. It's rare nowadays, I think, but still happens.

Also, for example, if a person is using a desktop publishing program and wants to use a feature like clipart or wordart and the original software was installed using the basic, minimal installation - many features may be unavailable unless you have the software to either read from or install those additional features.

All this would be doing is sentencing them to a computer that degrades over time with no way to fix it or keep up. Once a person endures a system that goes down hill they often will feel they'd rather have a computer with three programs with disc than a hard sdrive full of hundreds of orphaned applications.

I believe dell has a thing where you can hit ctrl and F11 at the same time at boot up and it restores it to the state it was in when you got it form dell.

Define "old"

Did it come with Win95/98? If so, and provided you haven't run defrag too often, Dell's restore image was called "ZZTop" and is run from a command prompt.

'Never worked for me during my time on the phones but may be worth a shot.

True FAT drive wipe is accomplished via debug/fdisk/format/reinstall.

>>True FAT drive wipe is accomplished via debug/fdisk/format/reinstall

And depending on the version of FORMAT you may need the "/U" switch to really overwrite ("erase") the existing data on the hard drive.

- Dave

Ubuntu!

Depending on the Operating System, I have a tool that will do that. I can wipe the whole drive, or simply scramble unused space on an existing drive. The utility needs to run overnight. I would just charge you my bench fee of $35. We do it all the time.

Brandt Info Tech
406.232.4000
911 Main Street
Miles City

It's not ancient - it did come with Windows XP... I do defrag and cleanup the junk regularly so that it runs OK. I'm pretty sure the original discs for the OS, MS programs, etc. were lost in one of the last four moves; so, the alternative then is either ccleaner or to wipe it completely? I added MS office a while after I got the computer... there's no way to keep these after I erase the history then right?

Kate,
You are correct. A computer without the original discs is very hard to work with. Lacking reinstallation software also complicates things. From my perspective, my hands are tied - legally.

If you lack the original OS discs, Dell is pretty good at having replacements available. Depending on the model, they may even offer them at no charge, but I have seen them charge up to about $50. Seems fair to me.

The software like MS Office is NOT replaceable; it must be repurchased.

I would highly recommend trying to get the replacement OS discs ASAP. Who ever you are giving this computer to has a pretty good chance at a failing hard drive sometime in the future. When it goes - they will be dead in the water. Every month that goes by reduces your chances of getting replacement OS discs significantly. I would call Dell today. Then at least the new user has peace-of-mind that the computer can live on, even if some of the software has to be repurchased.

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If you want to make sure that any personal data is no longer on the drive, then I would be able to take care of that. It's not really hard for us to do, which is why I would only charge you the bench fee. The software tool I use was inexpensive, and mostly, the computer just needs to run the cycle for several hours. Except for any obscure data practices, this would eliminate virtually all traces of your previous information and would be the next-best thing to reformatting.

I'm gonna hijack this post alittle...
my windows xp at home will not allow me to access Google?? Whenever I type it in a page pops up says it doesnt exist (and I am 100% certain I am using the right address), in addition, my internet explorer starts everytime I turn the machine on, whether I open it or not? At times, the internet will just shut itself off as well in addition to it being WAY slower than it originally was?? All my other software seems to be running fine - what can I do to fix this?? thanks-

Dan,
It sounds like you have an infection (or several). If Internet explorer can access some websites but not others, then your hosts file may have been damaged or hijacked.

If internet explorer is launching on it's own, then this is very indicative of "friends" running in the background accessing internet resources.

If internet is very slow, then "more friends" may be using the bandwidth for nefarious tasks - such as using your computer as a mass email bot.

You should get it scanned and cleaned.

Eric


* obviously, the word "friends" was used sarcastically, since most people do not actually want to be hijacked

Yup, sorry Dan but you've got viruses (virii?).

"You should get it scanned and cleaned."
how do I do this??

Take it to Eric and he can do it. That is probably the easiest way.

Download these two programs and run them:

Spybot S&D
http://www.safer-networki...index.html

AdAware
http://www.lavasoftusa.com/

The free versions are more then adequate. These two programs will find and quarantine/delete about 96% of the common trojans/adware/spyware currently infiltrating the net.

There are additional programs you can use to clean your registry but I would recommend having someone who knows what they are doing help you out with that.

Last time I got infected those programs and about 4 others didn't get the job done hehe. I finally wound up reformatting. It's definitely worth a try though, depending on what you have they can remove a lot of things.

EDIT: Also, I would avoid using that computer to make any online credit card payments and such until you get it taken care of in case your new complimentary software suite includes a keylogger.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 1/16/2008).]

At some point after I left the phones Dell stopped default shipping of install cds with Dimension now Inspiron systems and has gone to a reportedly more robust image. You may never have had a full set.

Earlier versions are hidden partitions at the front of the drive, later at the rear. Ctrl/F11 at the Dell splash screen on boot gives access to either version.

XP images are *supposed* to be left whole by defrag. Fdisk/mbr no doubt negates them.

I can't vouch for any of this. All my systems are XPS and shipped with the cds and no image.

Dell Win95/98 tech support is my contribution to the "most horrible job" thread. It was bad enough that I/m happier to sweat or freeze roofing.

Regarding wiping the drive clean then starting over...

Okay, I'll admit I use NONE of the following things (I have a business to run and purchased a boat-load of software). However, if I had to do it again from an economical standpoint I do hear better and better opinions of a lot of open-source/online apps (Open Office, for example).

You might find that there are similar free or limited applications out there on the intertubes that replace a lot of software one has come accustomed to using.

I work in professional graphic art circles and it's nothing to hear of startups using GIMP instead of Photoshop, for example. They're not exactly the same but to newcomers it's a promising, free program.

So, consider looking at these open-source/alternate programs. I think there's something in just about any category out there - financial, graphic, book keeping, word processing, desktop publishing - you name it.

I love Gimp (and no I'm not talking about the kind in Pulp Fiction)

>>XP images are *supposed* to be left whole by defrag.

Defrag operates on "logical drives" (i.e. C:, D:, E:, etc.) and not "physical drives" (i.e. the Maxtor IDE hard disk that contains the partition for logical drive C: and the "NON-DOS" system restore partition).

So if a "system restore partition" is stored on a NON-DOS partition that is not mounted as a logical drive then Defrag shouldn't touch that data at all.

>>Fdisk/mbr no doubt negates them.

It's been a long time since I've even used FDISK let alone looked at the source code to it but my recollection of the MS-DOS and Windows 9x flavor of FDISK was that "FDISK /MBR" would only rewrite the master boot code portion of the master boot sector. The partition table portion of the master boot sector should be left intact.

Now, if the master boot sector lacks a valid boot record signature (in which case the hard disk probably isn't even bootable), then FDISK /MBR WILL zero-out the partition table.

Also, I'm not up on the latest virus techniques, but it used to be somewhat common for viruses to infect the master boot record. In some cases those viruses would relocate the partition table from the usual location to some other place that the virus knows about. So, if your system is infected by a virus that relocates the partition table and if you run "FDISK /MBR" while the virus is not memory-resident, you will effectively lose access to your hard disk partitions. That's bad.

The point should be taken that "FDISK /MBR" is potentially a dangerous command to run and should be used with extreme care.

- Dave

>Defrag operates on "logical drives"

The problem with ZZtop was supposedly that the image was stored backwards on the "hidden" partition and was usually overwritten during defrag. Straight answers were hard to get from Dell, even in-house.

>The point should be taken that "FDISK /MBR" is potentially a dangerous command to run and should be used with extreme care.

Well yeah

My thinking was that /MBR probably wipes the Ctrl/F11 access to the image partition like it probably does to the MCE side of XP-MCE. I'm pretty sure that's how I killed the "Media" button on a few of mine anyhow.

I was a quick & dirty phone tech and did play fast and loose with DOS (like you probably notice ) I got in trouble for advising "scanreg /fix" to fix what AOL6 wonked (it worked too!) and they promoted me to L2 later that day

"I finally wound up reformatting. It's definitely worth a try though, depending on what you have they can remove a lot of things."

Levi - I'm very sorry to hear that. My policy is that my techs must get my approval before ANY reformat.

I only recommend it in the absolute worst cases. Many people spend a few years building a relationship with their computer, and reformatting starts the process all over again.

If you must reformat, be ready before you do.

First - Make sure you have a good, verified, and reverified backup of your data. Remember that a lot of programs place their data in what most lay people would consider hidden or obscure locations. MOST people that come to me forgot about address book and emails... They were very sorry about that.

Second - Make sure you have all your application installation discs AND KEYS. Software cannot (generally) be copied to the "new" system. I liken it to taking bookshelves from one library to another. First you have to break them apart to get them through the door, then you have to cut and nail and whatever else to make them fit right in the new library. Not something that can be easily done without a lot of damage. Usually, it's cheaper to buy the software again than to try to manually copy every registry setting, etc.... so forth.

Third - Make sure you have all your application discs AND KEYS handy. I know I'm repeating myself, but if you don't, you might really be down for a few days waiting to buy them again. It's worth a second mention.

Forth - Do it over a weekend - you're going to need the sleep and the cool down period for when you realize you lost your $200 Windows disc, and you forgot to backup the Quickbooks data.

Fifth - Yeah, - you're gonna need it. Maybe 2.

Finally, Probably easier and cheaper to have your IT professional do it for you. He already knows where the hidden stuff is, and if he (or she) works for me, he is already instructed to make a backup before he begins.

Finally-er and Finally-est - If you're not a nerd, one do the virus removal in the first place. He can probably get it out and fix related damage faster, easier and safer than you. lug:

Many people spend a few years building a relationship with their computer

Hopefully not the kind that might involve a bottle of Courvoisier or a fish sandwich.

I've found the easiest and surest way to remove malicious software is booting in safe mode w/ network support and using a web-based scan. (like TrendMicro or CA)

You can use your built-in Antivirus too, but some of them don't like safe mode. And they usually aren't up to date anyways if there are active infections.

I miss the days when c:>deltree windows was the halfway-house of reformatting. I think boot sector viruses went away around the same time. They really only made sense in the sneakernet days.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 1/18/2008).]

You should really just back up your personal data and erase everything - if you don't have install discs seriously consider http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download It's simple, smaller, and faster than windows, ideal for an older computer. It's also free. You can even pop the cd in and play around with it in an environment that is uninstalled - if you like it, just hit the install icon on the desktop - it's really sweet, seriously

If you do try ubuntu, and have problems with one build, don't be afraid to try older or newer versions. The few times I've played with it, it has had random hardware support issues in different builds. Might just be the hardware I've tried it on. But in the case of one machine, there were ide issues in one build, while an older build worked just fine. And it was an even older intel-based controller, so I know the driver should have been there. Then a new release came out later and the issue went away. It made no sense, but I guess you get what you pay for sometimes

Oh, and you better like firefox.

Who doesn't like Firefox?

Anyone who needs reliable activex.

Probably not this lady then.

Useless fact o' the day:

Ubuntu is a philosophy originated in Africa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...losophy%29

Apparently also the motto of this year's Boston Celtics... lame.

I have a couple of questions about Ubuntu.
1. Can you edit MSFT Word documents or Excel documents.
2. My understanding of Unix is that you have to configure the OS for the individual components in your computer. This means finding hardware specific drivers. If this is still the case, what is the advantage of using this OS over say Windows or Mac OS X?

Just because "we can" doesn't necessarily mean "we should".

Ubuntu handles hardware really well - the last build required some work to get broadcom wireless working, but that's taken care of.

I also think that Openoffice handles .docx - not entirely sure of that though, but I would guess there is some app that does. It does handle Excel and .doc formats. It's all really easy to handle, it's sort of a windows/mac OS hybrid.

Definitely worth trying on an older machine or as a dual boot (it works on Apple hardware too - biggest problem I've had with it is that it doesn't handle the new generation of Ipods, but they'll get that taken care of).

Oh - advantages - speed on old hardware and it takes very little hard disk space - I've got it running with a ton of programs and it's about 3.5 gigs.
It's also just fun to mess with if you're into configuring things (I find that really enjoyable for some reason - find or create a problem and then fix it - weird).

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 1/20/2008).]

OpenOffice is will not run Excel if your application requires macros or VBA.

OpenOffice.org does open and edit and create MS compatible documents.

You will have issues with some functions, anything vb or macro, and some difficulty converting merges from various data sources.

OpenOffice.org also uses about 5-7 times the memory and runs 5-7 times SLOWER than ms office.

There are just as many bugs and memory leaks as ms office.

The interface is similar, but different. If you are proficient with Excel, Calc will really piss you off.

There are enough people using MS products in business, that switching may cause some incompatibilities or rendering inconsistencies when sharing documents with colleagues. I recommend businesses use MS in most cases. I have on several occasions - just this last week as a matter of fact, installed OpenOffice.org for a client who is really just entering the computer age with their business. I have no doubt it is here to stay for a good while, and they will like it because they will be comfortable with it.

I use both MS and OpenOffice.org. The writer works just fine for me, but I HATE Calc. I also use Power Point because it is very likely to work on someone else's projector setup, where as Presentation may not...

Many people think that free is free, and it is not. There is SIGNIFICANT investment in man power to convert all your employees and colleagues to open source software. In MOST cases, I think paying MS for their software is cheaper than buying a lot of man-hours to learn free stuff.

Is MS Works still around?

I remember that was a great, entry-level suite that had a lot of tools but didn't cost an arm and a leg?

I've got MS Office and admit - I use a few advanced features I need but much of it is not something I use. I couldn't drop down to MS Works but for someone wanting to blank out a system and spend a lot less making it reasonably usable - maybe it's an option?

I imagine OpenOffice doesn't have the same RAM issues in Ubuntu and I also wouldn't recommend Ubuntu for someone who is looking to use the OS for tasks that MS has built their business around - business mostly. It's a great home OS and will do the job for most anyone who does relies on their computer for entertainment - web surfing, watching video, downloading music, e-mail. It's really worth the effort of trying it.

And I think that, if complaints and difficulties are something you're interested in, Vista is worth looking at.

OpenOffice.org also uses about 5-7 times the memory and runs 5-7 times SLOWER than ms office.

Not surprising considering the people who started openoffice are for the most part the same people that brought you Java.

Yes, Rick, but Java updates itself 4,000 times a day - so it must be a superior product!

Dan
Works is still around, but for the home user just getting into things, I think OpenOffice.org is the better product. And it's a LOT cheaper than MS Works.

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For those hell-bent nerds that claim Linux is the answer, let me speak from personal experience. I have been running Ubuntu for a couple years now. I am generally happy with it, but it is not ready for business yet. I still think Windows is cheaper.

Ubuntu has fewer security concerns, but the question would be "Why?"

One major "Why" is the same "Why" that people hated about NT. It was very stable, very secure - but didn't run anyone's programs. Why? because programmers didn't follow the rules - mostly. A side note to that would be drivers - most manufacturers didn't build consumer grade products with NT drivers. That was reserved for commercial grade devices. In Linux - it's pretty much reserved for some nerd who owns one and wants to donate his time.

The Linux file system is more easily geared to protect core files than NTFS - except with the introduction of access control lists. Recent Linux versions have some support for this complex and flexible ACL mechanism. Either way - it's usually the USER that decides to give bad programs permission to run. Less security means easier to use.

"You can's get a virus on a Mac or Linux!" - WRONG! It is significantly less likely, but as Linux gains main-stream popularity, users will lower security to make life easier, more targets will exist for programmers, and more people will click "ok" when they should not. I definitely expect to start seeing significant Linux mal-ware in the near future.

---------------

"Linux is more stable" - well not really. It can be. My server runs almost flawlessly, but my desktop, where I run applications written by volunteers - I have memory leaks, programs that suddenly close with no warning, and lockups. It's really no different that Windows Applications. Fact of the matter is that software is VARY HARD to write. People being paid to do it generally do a better job IMHO.

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"Yes, but you can run Linux on an ENIAC!" Get real, just because an OS CAN run on low power hardware, doesn't mean anyone wants to. I can run Windows 95 on systems that Ubuntu cannot touch - unless I install the server edition, which has no GUI. All the nice things that people want to use require resources. Period. There is no such thing as a free GUI. It costs a lot of RAM, Processor Power and hardware to run. Take a look at how much resource consumption there is with the Media Center Edition. Again, Windows 95 can run on a pretty basic machine. So can NT. Apples to Apples, Feature for Feature, they are still very comparable. In many cases, Windows products out-perform Linux - mostly BECAUSE of the loose relationship to the core, ability to reuse code, and lesser security. To illustrate MS efficiency over Open Source at reusing code, I have Firefox AND IE open right now. IE is using 28MB and FF is using 71MB. Both are viewing the same page of milescity.com.

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Ubuntu is going to be the clear winner in Linux for the next while I think. There are a lot of really good points to it, and there are a lot of limitations to it. Keep in mind, that while it is free, their programmers are being paid well to write a good GUI (btw-try the Linux Media Center if you haven't - uber cool). The company is backed by a Billionaire, Google regularly supports it, and they do have paid support plans.

There is some really good Open Source programs out there to run on it, and it "Comes with thousands of applications" - but the truth is that most of those applications are a) dependent parts to other programs, or b) not so functional. Open Source people are just usually patient enough to realize their rocket was build by the lowest bidder (nerd up all night on a caffeine high) can call it "pretty good".

"IE is using 28MB and FF is using 71MB. Both are viewing the same page of milescity.com."

How many browser plug-ins is that?

I actually like to reformat once in a while. Gets rid of a lot of crap that builds up on the hard drive and various applications that I installed at some point for something or other but rarely or never use. It takes a while but the computer usually runs better afterwards . Of course my computers are mostly toys and entertainment systems so I don't have much if any "data" that I care much about.