An Unsanitary Condition
Posted by Mayor (+132) 14 years ago
Most of us who follow the news are aware that Fire Chief Derrick Rodgers was acquitted of assault charges filed by Custer Co. Sanitarian Jim Zabrocki. Rodgers was exonerated by the unanimous verdict of a jury of his peers on Dec. 13th.

What many of us haven't been told is that the "assault" incident on May 22nd leading to the charges appears to have been premeditated and that Chief Rodgers was baited into a "behind closed doors" argument which Zabrocki alleges escalated into a physical assault.

After 26 years of unblemished and exemplary service with the City, Chief Rodgers was compelled to defend himself in a public trial at significant personal expense and cost to his professional reputation.

Where does Chief Rodgers go to recover his good name?

What follows is a timeline of events leading up to the replacement of Rodgers as County Fire Warden by Michael A. Preller and the announcement by Commissioner Nesbit that Custer Co. was in contract negotiations with Roger Hespe, owner of Newcastle Ambulance. The timeline includes excerpts from the public record since 1 May 2007, i.e. published notices, agendas, & minutes of Custer County Commission meetings, transcripts of the trial, and the 2007 Annual Report of Victory Insurance, Inc.

It should be noted that through December 15th meeting minutes were recorded by Commissioner Gary Matthews, despite the fact that it is the County Clerk & Recorder who is required to record minutes - presumably to avoid conflicts of interest between Commissioners and the public interest.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...4-2611.htm

Asterisks denote footnoted references to Montana State Laws at the bottom of the page.

Wednesday, 2 May 2007 - Custer County Commissioners closed their regular meeting to visit with Sanitarian Jim Zabrocki about a matter in which "individual privacy exceeded the benefits of public disclosure."

Monday, 7 May 2007 - The City Council and the Custer County Commissioners sit down together in a public meeting at City Hall to begin negotiations on the FY 07/08 Interlocal Agreement. All elected officials are present and the tone is positive.

Tuesday, 22 May 2007 - Two Custer County Deputies respond to Sanitarian Zabrocki's office after reports of an argument between Zabrocki and Fire Chief Derrick Rodgers. Both men acknowledge to the deputies that an argument occurred but Zabrocki dismisses the Deputies saying, "Everything's fine now." Deputy Powers testified that he saw no evidence of an altercation, no furniture upset, and no sign of assault on Zabrocki's person. Trial transcripts indicate that Zabrocki picked an argument with Rodgers, insisting repeatedly that Rodgers was unhappy with a set of radios assigned to the wildland fire suppression program.

Thursday, 24 May 2007 - Commissioners Matthews and Huber vote 2-0 to approve an agreement with Midwest Fire Suppression for mutual aid and exchange of equipment, supplies, & manpower - despite objections raised by the County Fire Warden. Commissioner Nesbit was excused from the meeting. MFS item was penciled into the agenda after public notice was issued. - **/***

Tuesday, 19 June 2007 - Jim Zabrocki is appointed "Wildland Fire Administrator" and raised from Grade 15, Step 3 to $19.67/hr. by a vote of 3-0. Rancher Jack McNamee asked if the County was changing wildland fire providers. He's told that "the only change is that Jim Zabrocki will be the Administrator and not a firefighter". The new appointment was not publicly noticed, nor posted as a job opening, and was made without consideration of the County Fire Warden's objections. - **/***

Thursday, 5 July 2007 - Commissioners announce to the firefighting community, including CCRVFD(Rural Volunteers), Dept. of Natural Resources & Conservation(DNRC), Bureau of Land Management(BLM), Midwest Fire Suppression, and Miles City Fire & Rescue, that Jim Zabrocki has been promoted "Wildland Fire Administrator" and that new wildland fire policies and procedures were now in effect. These policies conflict with protocol established by the DNRC County Cooperative Wildland Fire Program and the Northern Rockies Coordinating Group(NRCG) and are rejected by the City. ***

NRCG Mobilization of Local Government Firefighting Resourceshttp://dnrc.mt.gov/forest...Bguide.pdf

Tuesday, 10 July 2007 - Sanitarian Zabrocki contacts County Attorney to inquire about the progress of assault charges he claims he's filed against Fire Chief Rodgers and is informed that he's not yet pressed such charges. He then presses charges against Rodgers.

Monday, 30 July 2007 - Assault charges are filed against Fire Chief Rodgers.

Monday, 30 July 2007 - City of Miles City launches an independent personnel investigation of alleged assault against Jim Zabrocki by Chief Rodgers, as required by Miles City Personnel Policies & Procedures, upon learning that charges have been filed.

Thursday, 31 July 2007 - Commissioners vote 3-0 to enroll themselves under the County's Health Insurance program at a cost of $474.00/month, raising their gross pay from $38,500 to $44,188. The item was not publicly noticed or placed on the meeting agenda. */**

Thursday, 21 August 2007 - Roger Hespe, owner of Newcastle Ambulance, met with commissioners to discuss delivering private ambulance service into Custer County. The agenda item was publicly noticed only as "Roger Hespe". */**

Tuesday, 28 August 2007 - Commissioners meet with CCRVFD to discuss formation of multiple fire companies in County and then sign an application with Victory Insurance to convert Workman's Compensation coverage from State Fund to Victory Insurance for all CCRVFD firefighters and County employees. The matter is not published as an agenda item in the Miles City Star, is penciled into the agenda after posting as "CCRVFC", and there is no vote recorded in the minutes. Further, Commissioner Matthews sits on the board of directors and owns several shares of Victory Insurance. The minutes indicate that there was no public bidding process applied to this enrollment, that Matthews failed to disclose his position on the board with Victory Insurance, his ownership of Victory Insurance shares, or that he abstained from voting on the matter. */**/*****/*******

Wednesday, 10 October 2007 - Michael Preller(CCRVFD), Jim Zabrocki, and Commissioners negotiate agreement with CCRVFD to provide Wildland Fire Suppression services for Custer County. Agenda item is noticed as "Michael Preller - CCFD *

Thursday, 18 October 2007 - Commissioners inform Chief Rodgers and me that they intend to separate Wildland Fire Suppression from the Interlocal Agreement. Agenda item is posted as "Mayor", no motion is made, no vote is recorded. */****

Wednesday, 31 October 2007 - Commissioners decide to terminate the Mutual Aid agreement with Midwest Fire Suppression. Item is not publicly noticed, doesn't appear on the agenda, and no vote is recorded. */****

Wednesday, 28 November 2007 - The City's independent investigator submits his report of findings into the alleged assault against Zabrocki by Rodgers concluding that "there is no credible evidence" that the alleged assault occurred. I accept the findings of the report and close the investigation against Rodgers.

Wednesday, 5 December 2007 - Custer County enters into a fire agreement with CCRVFD, authorizing up to $70,000 in appropriations from the County General Fund structure and supplemental wildland fire protection. Despite authorizing more than $50,000 in public expenditures, their was no competitive public bidding process followed to solicit bids or award this contract to the lowest bidder. ******

Wednesday, 31 December 2007 - Commissioners rescind all County Rural Fire Chief/Fire Warden, Asst. Rural Fi
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1344) 14 years ago
4 things of note to me:

-Derrick Rodgers was, in my experiences through knowing his son and family, an extremely stand-up type of person who worked really hard for his family. I personally have a lot of respect for Mr. Rodgers.

-There is something extremely greasy going on with the changes the current commissioners have made. The whole thing just stinks.

-County Fire Wardens don't get paid a whole hell of a lot!

-Mr. Whalen,

You are a refreshing breathe of ... well fresh air in the MC community. Your consistent regard for the good of the citizens, and your refusal to be bullied by the "old crowd" continues to impress me. It is people like you that will eventually lure the young professionals like myself back to MC. Not the current established group of people who hang on desperately to their small pond mentality. I wish you good luck in your continued efforts to make things right by the people of MC.
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
I echo J's post. Hurrah for the Mayor.
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Posted by Chad (+1758) 14 years ago
As a rural county resident all this is really starting to bother me, too. There seems to be a great deal going on with very little public input and awareness.

I will add that I have heard the County has acquired the North half of the pine Hills campus (where the old buildings full of asbestos and lead paint are). I knew they were looking at it for possible business options, but to commit to taking ownership of it without committed tenants and without having the State clean up the buildings and the underground steam tunnels is fool-hearty, at best.
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
Isn't asbestos removal really expensive? How can the county commit to that without the voters input?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4455) 14 years ago
Sounds like they don't do much research or allow much input - a la that guy that Eric sued.
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Posted by Roxanna Brush (+119) 14 years ago
I hear that the state is giving the property to Custer County. No strings attached.
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
Even if it was a gift, the asbestos and lead still has to be dealt with and that can be horridly expensive.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11957) 14 years ago
raising their gross pay from $38,500 to $44,188

Holy NED!!!! I had NO idea they made this much money. They want to cut the budget, cut their salaries. Yow. I suddenly have the urge to run for county commissioner.
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
In fairness, sometimes those salaries are mandated by Federal or State standards. In this case, I have no idea.
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Posted by Chad (+1758) 14 years ago
HazMat clean up would qualify as "strings attached" in my mind. I find it hard to believe the State can hand off the property and not address clean up. I would think there are/should be laws prohibiting it. I know the average person could not walk away from it in today's Mt DEQ climate.
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Posted by Nancy (+283) 14 years ago
Is the County Commissioner a full time or part-time position? The salary is extremely high if it is part-time.Is it correct that Mr. Rodgers was let go and replaced because of this incident? And is it not law that a municipality solicit bids? What can the people do at this point about this inappropriateness?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17731) 14 years ago
Even if it was a gift, the asbestos and lead still has to be dealt with and that can be horridly expensive.

Not necessarily....there are no removal requirements for asbestos or lead paint...there are requirements triggered in the event of renovation and/or demolition, which can be very expensive. But if the buildings are in relatively good shape, and extensive renovation is not required, then the costs of managing asbestos and lead paint may be minimal.
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
Thanks Gunnar, I didn't realize that. I stand corrected.
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Posted by JOE WHALEN (+619) 14 years ago
Nancy asked:

Is the County Commissioner a full time or part-time position?


Commissioners are assumed to be full-time employees of the County, unless they elect to become part-time or the County has elected to convert to a chartered (self-governing) form of government. To my knowledge, the commissioners have not officially decided to reduce their hours to part-time nor has the County decided to adopt a charter. Therefore, we can safely assume that the position of County Commissioner is a full-time job.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...4-2107.htm

And as such:
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...5-2108.htm

Is it correct that Mr. Rodgers was let go and replaced because of this incident?

There was no credible finding for the discipline or discharge of Chief Rodgers as a result of the independent investigation by the City of Miles City. The commissioners replaced Chief Rodgers as County Fire Warden at midnight on January 1st, 2008 without good cause. The newly appointed County Fire Warden is not qualified or trained as an Incident Commander and the City of Miles City will not expose itself to the liability of placing its firefighters under the command of unqualified leadership.

And is it not law that a municipality solicit bids?]

Municipalities, Counties, and all other government entities in the state of Montana are required to follow a competitive bidding process for purchases and contracts over $50,000 - unless the requirements of emergency exceptions are met.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...5-2301.htm
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...5-2304.htm

What can the people do at this point about this inappropriateness?

1) Show up at public forum at 7 p.m., Tuesday, January 15th, Rm. 323 at Miles Community College. Ask your questions to City and County officials alike. Demand straight, concise answers. Listen to our responses, verify them independently.

2) As a last resort, if you believe either/both to be unresponsive, deceitful or in violation of the public trust, the Montana Constitution provides for the recall of elected officials by special election.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...16-616.htm

Note: I failed to mention in my last post that the Workman's Compensation coverage of all current County employees and any future firefighters employed in the new Custer County Fire Company (see http://www.milescityvoice...rticleId=6) were converted from MACo(MT. Assn. of Counties) to Victory Insurance on or about 20 December 2007. Commissioner Matthews has stated that he wants to expand the number of county firefighters to a crew of 75 persons.
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Posted by Andrea Nelson (+19) 14 years ago
Just a word of information there is no asbestos or lead in the old buildings at Pine Hills to my knowledge all of that is cleaned up. The county bought it from the state for a certain price it was just not given to the county.
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Posted by Chad (+1758) 14 years ago
I do not believe it was ALL cleaned up. The steam tunnels underground still have wrapped pipes, old floor tile and ceiling tiles are still there( along with the mastic used to apply them), the old canteen/theater certainly has lead paint, there is likely plaster with more than 1% asbestos in the older buildings (that requires abatement), older roofing and shingles typically had asbestos (still there)....

Shall I go on?

I know when PHS moved into the new buildings they cut the power and heat to the old buildings and locked the doors. There are broken windows, leaky roofs, and probably damaged plumbing both above and below ground. Any effort to move into the buildings will require extensive renovation, HVAC, plumbing, electrical, etc.. The buildings were originally fed from a central heating plant and a distributed electrical system; they are no longer functional.

It's a mess. I've been through them.
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Posted by Nancy (+283) 14 years ago
1) Show up at public forum at 7 p.m., Tuesday, January 15th, Rm. 323 at Miles Community College. Ask your questions to City and County officials alike. Demand straight, concise answers. Listen to our responses, verify them independently.

Is it possible for someone to tape this meeting like Eric taped the fire department meeting for those of us that do not live in MC or are unable to attend?
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Posted by howdy (+4950) 14 years ago
According to the web site, the commissioners are in office Tuesday thru Thursday. Isnt that part time?
http://mt.gov/maco/Counties/CUSTER.htm
I suppose you could count their meeting nights too
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Posted by Eric Brandt (+839) 14 years ago
Nancy,
I will be encoding that meeting as it is happening tomorrow night. It should be up sometime around midnight or soon thereafter.

Thank you for your interest. These issues SHOULD get people involved - they are important.

Eric
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Posted by Larry (+150) 14 years ago
First of all my reply to the mayor. When my wife was the Clerk and Recorder, she got an attorney generals opinion and he said that the Clerk and Recorder is only responsible for recording the minutes. This does not include taking the minutes of the meeting. And second, everyone is on the commissioners for working part time. This had been going on for many years. And previous mayors have worked part time. Check out the Mayors office hours and you will find he is in the office just a few hours a day. For that I think he gets $20,000 salary. Lets stop this bickering. If you do not like the elected officials, vote them out. They were elected to make the decisions for you. Thanks Larry
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1279) 14 years ago
Larry, $38.5 or $44.1K per year is a hell of a lot more than $20K the mayor gets. In fact, isn't the median income in MC something like $28K? While I agree about the bickering, shouldn't you as a citizen paying taxes be offended that these elected officials have chosen to give themselves way more money than almost anyone else in the county makes? And they can do it with just a vote amongst themselves.

Plus all of these firefighting "decisions" have been made with very little public notice until after the fact. They have also attmepted to justify these decisions under the color of 'saving money' when even the slowest POTUS can see that this is just fuzzy math.

You and everyone else should be outraged at the behavior of these officials! You are all being swindled and standing by and allowing it.
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Posted by City County Resident (+55) 14 years ago
What many of us haven't been told is that the "assault" incident on May 22nd leading to the charges appears to have been premeditated and that Chief Rodgers was baited into a "behind closed doors" argument which Zabrocki alleges escalated into a physical assault.

Shame on you! Baiting or not: assault is assault any way you choose to candy coat it. Adults simply do not settle verbal disagreements with physical violence.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 14 years ago
Shame on you! Baiting or not: assault is assault any way you choose to candy coat it. Adults simply do not settle verbal disagreements with physical violence.

Mr. Rodgers was acquitted of the assault charge. "CCR" I realize "acquitted" is a big word for you so I'll include a link to a dictionary definition to help you out:

http://dictionary.referen.../acquitted

- Dave
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Posted by City County Resident (+55) 14 years ago
So, smarty pants, I suppose that the bruises were just make-up? Acquittal means that the jury didn't find him guilty--not that he wasn't guilty. Wonder what his defense will be when he meets his maker? Not guilty by reason of...stupidity? Lack of medical report? What?

I would think that as a city employee, the fact that this went so far (to court), the city would at least consider requiring our good chief to seek anger management counseling so that he possesses the tools to avoid another brawl in the future.

[This message has been edited by City County Resident (edited 1/18/2008).]
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Posted by Roxanna Brush (+119) 14 years ago
David
I can see that smile from here.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 14 years ago
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Posted by Dan Mowry (+1432) 14 years ago
You'd think you could see MY smile all the way from HERE!

I love a circus.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4455) 14 years ago
City County Resident Zabrocki is probably how it should read.
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Posted by Mayor (+132) 13 years ago
The Star featured notice of an Emergency meeting called by the County Commissioners at the request of the chairperson of the County Health Board. As I understand it, the health board is dissatisfied with the decision of the commissioners to suspend sanitarian services within the city limits of Miles City and consider the decision a serious threat to public safety. Couldn't agree more.

If you're as concerned as we are, I hope you'll find time to attend the meeting at noon today in the meeting room of the Custer County Commission at the Courthouse Annex, 1010 Main St.
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Posted by Chad (+1758) 13 years ago
Sorry, I didn't see the post until it was too late.

For the record:

I agree with the Health Board. It was just plain stupid to cut the services of the Sanitarian within City limits.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 13 years ago
What was the outcome of the meeting?
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Posted by Tony Ackerman (+184) 13 years ago
bump
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Posted by Todd Larson (+143) 13 years ago
Folks,
Now this my OPINION of MR. Zabrocki and it based on past dealings with him. So if you know Jimmy, don't get blood pressure up to a boil because I really don't care.

Jimmy is one of the most stubborn, obstinent, immature, self centered, childish human being I have ever delt with. When you deal with him, his attitude and self inflated ego gets the better of him, the "it's my way or the highway" attitude is not great attribute to possess when working with people you have to live around. When this grown man does not get his way he will pout like a child and will hold grudge for eternity.

This what I and many others have observed Jimmy act like. So Jimmy, if you are reading this, grow up and work on your people skills! Holding on to those old grudges make you less of a good person. I am sure you can be a good person, but it is just when things do not go your way, you have a problem with.

So Jimmy, are you going to ever work out your differences with the local "club"? You know which one I am referring to.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 13 years ago
So, what was the outcome of yesterday's meeting?
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Posted by Todd Larson (+143) 13 years ago
The outcome is that the county commissioners have to pick up the tab for Jimmy and allow him to inspect within boundries of Miles City. If that makes any sense at all, and this came from the city's attorney.

Mrs. Hollman stated that she did not care who was going to pay for his services, so the thing to do is have the health board to come up with way to fund Jimmy's job. Since it is apparent that the health board has the city attorney in their back pocket.

I did not think that the county commissioners had any authority within the city's proceedures and affairs and do not think that was their intent, but they are looking at the bottom line figures. Seeing that they did not have enough money to go around, due to their limitted resources, they were trying to balance their budget.

Then you have the health board who saw that poooooor Jimmy was POed and decided to take up his cause. As it was noted, Jimmy did not attend the meeting, this is because Jimmy does not want to take any heat or be affiliated with any strife, he just wants to bask in the glory of his vindication. That's just the way he operates!

I myself would have rather had paid for the sanitarian service from an outside source, as the city had orginally planned to do, before the health board became involved for pooooor Jimmy. It would have been cheaper to contracted the service out and a lot more harmonious too. The estimated cost per taxpayer would have been only (about) $2.34/month which equalls $28.08 a year. Of course this was based on the news article in the Star a few months ago and I estimated how many taxpayers that there are in Miles City. If the county was included for these services and poooor Jimmy was not there, the cost per year (based on the bid that the city received) would be even less.

My personal belief, Miles City and Custer County would be money ahead to delete the Sanitarian position and just contract it out. There would not be any health insurance to pay for and other administration over head costs could be cut. Obviously there would not be a food poisioning epidemic, because Jimmy was instructed, in July, that he was not to inspect in Miles City and now it is September and there hasn't been an epidemic, we survived without Jimmy, wow!

The idea of Mrs. Holman's scare tactics of food borne bateria epidemic is quite distorted. I am not saying that risk does not exist but not like we are going to have an epidemic just because Jimmy cannot do inspections in Miles City. As it were, I have never seen Jimmy out of his office except on his way to from his house. I am not saying that he does not do any work, but inspections are not a high priority in his job, for it is rarity to see him out and about.

So if Miles City was to have an epidemic of food poisioning there would be no difference in service if the job was contracted out rather than paying for Jimmy. The epidemic is more likely to be a snow job from Jimmy and friends.

[This message has been edited by Todd Larson (edited 9/6/2008).]
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 13 years ago


Maybe someone who is less antagonistic toward County Sanitarian Zabrocki could explain what's going on.

If the County Commissioners were looking to make their budget work by not having the Sanitarian do inspections within the boundaries of the City of Miles City then I would assume the Sanitarian would have taken a pay cut (saving the County money) when those duties were taken away. I don't think that was the case.

- Dave
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Posted by JOE WHALEN (+619) 13 years ago
The primary outcome of the meeting was the revelation that the Commissioners do not have the authority to direct the sanitarian to conduct health inspection services only to that portion of the County outside the city limits. By law, that authority rests solely with the County Health Board. Consequently, all referrals of health inspections by the sanitarian to my office were illegal and it would've likely been illegal for me to respond to them, even with a contracted licensed sanitarian.

Secondly, despite all of the discussion and protest in this forum and others this past year over the importance of open meetings and proper public notice, we learned that the decision to terminate health inspection services within the city limits was made retroactively to July 1st during a Commission meeting on July 8th.

The agenda for the July 8th meeting reads only, "Review budgets, Sanitarian/DES". Does that give the public any indication as to nature of the business that was to be discussed or the action that would be taken during the meeting? Not even close.

The minutes of the meeting do not state that the decision to terminate services to the City was introduced through a motion, who would've made and seconded that motion, or even that a vote was taken and tallied. We've been here many times before under the leadership of Chairman Nesbit. Draw your own conclusions.

Finally, a public meeting between the City and County to negotiate the formation of a City/County Health Board is scheduled for 10 a.m., Tuesday at the Courthouse.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 13 years ago
Thank you, Joe. Glad to hear the sanitarian is back on the job in Miles City.

The minutes of the meeting do not state that the decision to terminate services to the City was introduced through a motion, who would've made and seconded that motion, or even that a vote was taken and tallied. We've been here many times before under the leadership of Chairman Nesbit. Draw your own conclusions.

Did anyone ask the commissioners who made the motion (re: sanitarian services), who seconded the motion, and what the final vote was? If so, did they have an answer?

- Dave
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4458) 13 years ago
The worst thing, if true, is that they don't seem to research the legal details until after the decision's already been made.

Ready, fire, aim is the best way to describe it. Who ended up bringing these problems with the health board to their attention?
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Posted by JOE WHALEN (+619) 13 years ago
Rick: The County Health Board, to their credit, demanded an emergency meeting with the Commissioners. It was City Attorney Huss who pointed out the unlawfulness of the Commission's decision.

Dave: I didn't put those questions to Commissioner Nesbit, but I did express my disappointment to him that, when I requested an immediate meeting in late July to discuss forming a City/County Health Board on a properly noticed agenda, his response was to call a meeting between one commissioner and a city councilman, thereby ruling out a quorum. I stated to him that there is no record of that meeting, who attended, what was discussed, whether or not decisions were made and by what means. His response was that "meetings have been conducted like this in Custer County for years". Yeah, exactly. But I do believe that we've made some progress this time in driving home the point that business won't be transacted like this in Custer County on public matters now and in the future.
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Posted by tax payer (+351) 13 years ago
Joe, how is this different than shutting the ambalance off to the county residents? Other than you gave notice.
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Posted by David Schott (+17509) 13 years ago
Thanks again, Joe.

It seems reasonable that County (and City) business be conducted according to Montana State code. Those laws are there to protect the public as well as the elected and appointed government officials.

I think that in small communities the public servants are often lay people who don't necessarily have unique/specific qualifications for holding public office, other than they were willing to take on the job when many others weren't. For that reason I can see why mistakes, in particular procedural mistakes, can happen. I just hope people learn from their mistakes and improve. I also hope that government has a way of educating newly elected officials -- such as a printed copy of the relevant Montana Code being given to all newly elected/appointed public officials and perhaps specific training classes on things like procedures for giving notice of and conducting public meetings as well as maintaining public records. Something along those lines.

- Dave
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Posted by Eric Brandt (+839) 13 years ago
tax payer:

I will take the opportunity to answer your question in very plain terms:

First of all, the City never did shut off ambulance services to the county. The County actually DID stop sanitation services.

Additionally, as you acknowledge, the City never hid their behaviors or cloaked them in code or secrecy - they conducted open negotiations, posted results of meetings, noticed the public, and sought public and legal input before making lawful decisions. The County did hid their activities; continue to do so; and fail to seek proper input. (I have over 200 open meeting violations compiled in the last year and they still can't get it right.)

Also, the City actually DID suffer economic stress by providing services that were not being paid for. The County stopped a service to 8000 people who already paid for it in their County tax levy. Let me remind you that the City is already 100% contained within the County limits. Furthermore, the Sanitarian is mostly paid for by STATE or other external funds (My research shows perhaps as much as 80%).

Finally, the City never made any promises or claims with the Sanitarian services; the City was not invited to negotiate these services, the City was never provided with accurate financial data supporting requesting compensation. The County did have all that information offered in the Ambulance situation.

I'm not sure how much money the Crymissioners are talking about here. It might be easier if they would actually provide numbers...

Alas...
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Posted by Todd Larson (+143) 13 years ago
And we all died of food poisonning too, there was big epidemic. Should of seen it, everyone tossing their cookies, man what a mess.

Lets elect Eric Brandt and Rob Shipley for County Commissioners. I want to know what happens behind closed doors and I need a Lincoln for my front yard.
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Posted by tax payer (+351) 13 years ago
Eric...First of all, the City never did shut off ambulance services to the county. The County actually DID stop sanitation services.

They would have, but the commissioners called them on it.I think it was wrong on how they did it. But it seemed to work.


ERIC.....Also, the City actually DID suffer economic stress by providing services that were not being paid for. The County stopped a service to 8000 people who already paid for it in their County tax levy. Let me remind you that the City is already 100% contained within the County limits. Furthermore, the Sanitarian is mostly paid for by STATE or other external funds (My research shows perhaps as much as 80%).


I am not for the city verses county or other way around. Just looking for some answers. The county people paid for the ambulance with their tax $$$'s. What happened to it after it was collected I have no idea, but it was paid. But, country people who had no leaders were going to lose a more needed item, than the need to get eating placed inspected. But the city knowing that the country people were not represented very well, were going to shut it off anyway. Funny, how the price dropped, and I am not for the piece of junk the commissioners bought or how they went about it. But we need some adults leading the city and county and not you hit me first, so I will hit you last attitude. Eric I really don't think you are one of them leaders either. There must be someone out there to lead. But, then I guess they all hold down jobs and can't put the needed time in to do it.

[This message has been edited by tax payer (edited 9/6/2008).]
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Posted by JOE WHALEN (+619) 13 years ago
Tax Payer: There are two primary differences between Resolution #3241 and the sanitarian issue. As you've pointed out, the Resolution authorized me to suspend all services to the County, as long as I provided 30 days written notice to the commissioners. For the record, the City never suspended services to the County and I certainly never even gave notice of the suspension of emergency services to the County.

The second issue is that the City publicly noticed Resolution #3241 at least 48 hours in advance of the meeting in which the resolution was approved. We publicly noticed the Resolution by title so that there was no confusion as to the matter to be considered during our meeting. The resolution appeared on the agenda exactly as it was publicly noticed and minutes were taken at the meeting specifying who moved, who seconded, who voted for and against the Resolution.

So, the differences are both substantive and procedural.

Thanks for your question, Tax Payer.
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Posted by shannon gamber (+20) 13 years ago
Don't forget the hours they put in carting their laptops around. Probaly on the net right now in their homes surfing and getting paid, just to tell us they were up all nite working the city budget plan
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Posted by shannon gamber (+20) 13 years ago
Well if this was the old days where people didn't cry all the time,or call the cops when they got hit or(assaulted) we wouldn't even care what happened. The way we all live these days sux.
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Posted by tax payer (+351) 13 years ago
Thanks Joe for the answer. Still have a hard time understanding the fight between the city and county. I feel they need one outside book keeping system, then numbers can not be switched around on either side. It would show what the county people paid for the ambulance and what the city people paid for the sanitation services. If people are taxed for that item, then they need to be able to use it. $$$ for $$$ an real estate taxes I paid the same for the ambulance and other shared items in the country as my mother does on her house and land in town. This should go straight into that account and not used for other unneeded expenses.

[This message has been edited by tax payer (edited 9/7/2008).]
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