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Posted by tom regan (+2492) 16 days ago
So, let me get this straight. Moscow Mitch and the rest of the Republican party refuse to raise the debt ceiling to finance the tax cuts they passed for billionaires back in 2017. Including the rest of the $7 trillion in national debt increase under the Trump administration. The reason is that they don't want to support an infrastructure bill that supports the middle class and creates millions of jobs while adding nothing to the national debt.

Can someone please explain this to me? I thought the Republicans were the party of fiscal responsibility? Defaulting on your debts doesn't seem very fiscally responsible.
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 16 days ago
I can explain it. You are thinking about it in a logical way instead of in a theatrical way. You need to first view it from the position of an act, or a stage play in which the politicians are playing characters that they have honed and practiced for a very long time. These political characters have been manufactured based on a variety of factors including the individual political actors own personal persona and general look. Some are role players, some work better in ensembles, and you have a variety of stars all the way from D list to A list. Now while there are big productions that would be analogous to blockbuster films most of what is going on in Washington is akin to Reality TV.

For the most part what you are seeing and hearing is designed as part of an act and rarely ever do these actors break character. So in order to understand why Republicans would act in a way that seems illogical is to realize that they are playing to the crowd. It is as simple as that. They are not nefarious or evil or anything like that, they are simply playing their role. These are not people that are more intelligent or more capable or have some sort of secret knowledge. In reality, many of them are probably not even familiar with the basics of high school political science. They are normal fallible people and they are just as capable of making mistakes as the drive-thru worker at McDonalds who regularly forgets to withhold the onions from my quarter-pounder. So be patient with them, they are only human after all.
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Posted by Hanson (+2097) 15 days ago
Reply to 9-0films (#382831)
9-0films states that congressional Republicans “are not nefarious or evil or anything like that.” Has 9-0films’ habitation been in a sensory deprivation tank for the past several years and especially since the election last November? I don’t know whether or not he believes that our constitutional Democratic Republic is worth preserving. I do know that a dangerous percentage of Republicans couldn’t care less. They do not want to shed light on the attempted insurrection of January 6, 2021. They don’t even feel that those who tried to overthrow our democracy should answer for their actions in our court system. In poll after poll, they express an ideology of racism and authoritarianism. The citizens of this country who enjoy freedom best start paying attention to what’s happening while we are still free.
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 13 days ago
You can call me Mike. We simply view the world through different lenses, so I fear that we will just end up talking right past each other. But I will still try.

I simply don't see the world as good against evil, in fact I don't believe there is anything such as good or bad, there just is. Suggesting that the "conservatives" are malevolent is an easy cop out, but it is also a harmful hot take. The problem with it is that conservatives are also Americans, so how can we stand united if we are purposely dividing each other. It is easy to say that YOU are right and THEY are wrong when in reality most people, like the OP, can't even understand what the other sides views are.

Also kudos for the deprivation tank put down. It was clever, and hurtful, which I imagine was your intent. But, I just wonder if the world wouldn't be a better place if we were to change our rhetoric and the way we interact with each other. I think we could all use a little more compassion and empathy for each other, and I truly believe that a little more patience would go a long way. I was simply pointing out that our countries political actors are just that, actors. They are performing and we are the audience paying the ticket prices. So stop believing everything you are told and listening to other peoples opinions, and start forming your own.

I realize that sounds a bit harsh, but I truly mean it in a friendly way because I really want you to find the truth for yourself and stop listening to someone else's version of it.
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Posted by Frank Burns (+341) 13 days ago
A world without right or wrong, without good or bad. Sounds like fun. I think I'll start by going over to the store to pick up some free stuff.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9176) 13 days ago
I mean, how was Hanson supposed to know that the sensory deprivation tank that raised you from an orphan recently had to be sent to the landfill, a fact which your still mourning and caused you to find his comment, while clever, still painful?

Let me guess though - you voted for Jill Stein?
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Posted by tom regan (+2492) 13 days ago
Interesting perspective. If the politicians that actively supported and encouraged an attempted insurrection against our Democratic Republic on January 6th were "just acting", then what was their motive? Were they simply playing to their base? If so, what was the expected outcome of their lies and conspiracy theories about a stolen election and other divisive rhetoric?

I don't know if those folks are evil. That's not for me to judge. But is does seem to me that they have given up on our country, and the democratic ideals put forth in the Constitution by our founding fathers.
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 13 days ago
Bridgier. I realize your question is rhetorical simply for you to put me down. However, I think everyone should be aware of what they are saying and implying with their words and to realize that what they are saying is potentially harmful, especially when that is the intention. I don't think anyone should treat people of any particular political belief with such negativity and anger. There is no reason to attack me for giving my own views about something. And the fact that is the go-to for most of society is baffling. We can be whatever we want to be on the internet, and look at what you choose to be.

All of you guys are engaging in straw man tactics. Straw Man Fallacy by the way is "a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one."

You might view my opinions on the illusion of good and evil as strange, but I can take solace in the fact that I have well-researched my conclusions and not just blindly accepted somebody else's dogmatic view of reality. Additionally, when given compelling evidence to the contrary, I can actually change me mind. Can you?

Like racism and Santa Claus, once you realize that race is just a made up concept, it's really quite upsetting to you that you have been purposely believing in bullpoop for so long. Quite obviously easily debunk-able bullpoop. Of course I was 39 when I found that truth after studying anthropology, and I realized then that I can't trust what anybody tells me anymore. I have to find the truth for myself.

If you think I am a conservative, ask yourself why you think that, and what exactly has misled you so badly to that conclusion?
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 13 days ago
I am sorry for posting in here. I can admit when I am wrong, and I was wrong and I apologize for my incorrect views on society and I have successfully changed my mind and I agree whole-heartedly with your opinions and viewpoints. This will be my last post as I have become aware that posting anywhere on the internet can only cause me harm. I have a problem with arguing on the internet and I have to be vigilant in curbing that addiction. I apologize for starting a conversation I am unable to continue engaging in.


[Edited by 9-0films (10/4/2021 11:49:55 AM)]

[Edited by 9-0films (10/4/2021 11:56:47 AM)]
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Posted by David Schott (+16946) 13 days ago
Reply to 9-0films (#382846)
Political discussions can get heated, Mike. Don't let it get you down. I, for one, am always interested in hearing what you and others have to say even if I don't always agree.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9176) 13 days ago
oh for procreate's sake. Grow up. You spend a bunch of words telling Tom & Hanson that they're wrong, and that YOU can explain it to them, take offense at Hanson's suggestion that maybe YOU aren't paying attention, and then huff and puff around because no one's handling you with the kid gloves your delicate fee-fee's require.

Again, I feel rather confident in having identified the Green Party member in our midst.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1595) 13 days ago
9-0films,

I was actually enjoying reading your perspective and I hope you'll reconsider and stay. Calm and cool discussion is so needed now and so hard to find. I had actually started posting a reply to you myself when I deleted it and changed my mind. It was filled with the sad fact that I used to try to be calm, sometimes defend the attacked I was in disagreement with as well.
But, it wore me down. I think it truly was Trump that did that. One vile man, so filled with ego, with self love at the expense of all else, and the minions who follow, almost always because of a particular stance on a single issue that he attracts, whether anti-abortion or racist or sexist.

You were a bright spot. Come back. I'll talk your talk and walk your walk. Maybe if 2 can we can find a third and a fourth, and we can all delete facebook and be better for it.

:wistful:
FH

[Edited by Frank Hardy (10/4/2021 3:38:30 PM)]
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 12 days ago
If the politicians that actively supported and encouraged an attempted insurrection against our Democratic Republic on January 6th were "just acting", then what was their motive? Were they simply playing to their base? If so, what was the expected outcome of their lies and conspiracy theories about a stolen election and other divisive rhetoric?


Trump is certainly the ringleader here. His persona is one of ego and narcissism, and a character of that magnitude cannot just lose an election. Because then it destroys the entire illusion that he has built. The other politicians fall in line in order to protect their political careers. So from my viewpoint, I think January 6th is all about Trump and illustrates the full reach of his power which is significant. So yeah, their motive was simple, they knew if they went against Trump it would be the end of their political careers.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17224) 11 days ago
My personal philosophy has been, and always has been, is let the ruling parties implement their programs, and let's come back and see how they did. With a couple exceptions.*

I am in huge favor of the infrastructure bill the Senate passed, yet am leary of the social welfare that the House progressives want. But at the same time, let it happen! Like Obama care, once people get free stuff, they will be reluctant to give it up.

In regards to the debt, Tommy succinctly summed it up in the first post. It is far more important to keep the U.S. as the national currency of the world, than to default on our obligations because of Moscow Mitch and his gang of obstructionists. The debt does not matter, unless we default. And there is a pretty good chance that the social welfare programs that the progressives want will only make the economy stronger.

*My exception example would be the Republican attempt to repeal Obamacare, which John McCain thwarted. Those scum-sucking lizards could not even come up with a replacement. Four years of Trump, and all we got was a tax cut for his rich buddies and increased debt.
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Posted by 9-0films (+507) 11 days ago
In defense of the Republicans. Obamacare sucks.
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Posted by Hanson (+2097) 11 days ago
Reply to 9-0films (#382858)
9-0films emerged again from the tank to enlighten us stating “in defense of the Republicans. Obamacare sucks.” His research bears witness to the Republicans assailing the Affordable Care Act on imploded prices punishing individuals paying for private health insurance. This theme is repeated over and over on Fox ‘news’ and in social media. In reality, the ACA’s troubles are directly attributable to Republicans working to destroy it.

The ACA, when enacted, was to provide real and substantial coverage to millions of uninsured and underinsured (pre-existing conditions) Americans. To do this the Act set up ‘Risk Corridors.’ They were set up to help insurance companies, with too many new sick people, cover medical bills. The Republicans added a “rider” to a massive, 1600 page, spending bill in 2014 to undermine this key financing mechanism in the ACA. The rider limited Health and Human Services’ ability to protect insurance companies from financial losses from providing coverage to millions of newly insured. This resulted in a sabotage of the ACA and a majority of the ACA nonprofit insurance cooperatives failing because of the Republican-led federal abandonment. This alone disrupted coverage for millions of Americans. The result was the increased premiums Republicans claim in alleging the failure of the ACA and 9-0films claiming Obamacare sucks.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9176) 11 days ago
I would not deign to imagine nor assume the vaccination status of anyone here, but... can you imagine what things would be like if insurance companies were able to deny people coverage because they had once contracted an illness with all manner of delayed health impacts? They might even have a snappy name for it, like "pre-existing condition"

But hey, horse paste and facebook are always available, amirite?
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1595) 11 days ago
In defense of the Republicans. Obamacare sucks.


For the entire campaign and through the entire presidency, Trump and his supporters didn't present a single alternative. Trumps entire strategy was to add interstate competition to health care.

No matter what you think of Obamacare, if there is an American who doesn't believe that health care for all should be a right (not a privilege- and not priced into the stratosphere like Disney World to tourists), then you are naive and/or a jerk.

At least they tried! If you can do better, do it! I'd love to no longer pay $1800 a month for health care.

:1stWorldFools:
FH
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Posted by Hanson (+2097) 6 days ago
Reply to Frank Hardy (#382863)
Frank Hardy wrote “for the entire campaign and through the entire presidency, Trump and his supporters didn't present a single alternative. Trump's entire strategy was to add interstate competition to health care.”

Hardy is right, this has always been the Republicans’ only solution to the health care crises. They claim the solution is in more free-market and interstate competition options for people who can pay on-demand in cash and/or through health savings accounts. To this end, they propose plans that do not protect underinsured people with pre-existing conditions. They push plans that have people establishing personal tax-free health savings accounts that they self-administer. This is all fine except such plans leave countless millions, living paycheck to paycheck, out in the cold.
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