Well, today Trump showed his great capacity for cruelty when he ended the immigration protection program for 'Dreamers.' The Dreamers were brought to this country as children by their parents. They grew up here. Home is here. Where will they be returned to?? (And, by the way, how much will that cost?) Hopefully, Congress will overturn this decision.

I liked JillinNH's response to an article in the Washington Post.

"JillinNH
Several years ago I was in an antique/junk shop in Lowell, MA, and saw a small, legitimately-aged sign behind the counter in the small shop that read: HELP WANTED - no Irish need apply. I asked if I could buy it. The owner shook his head, smiling, and said, "Do you know how many times every I'm asked that question?" I should my head, no. "Two out of every customer. . . " I groveled: "I'd give anything you want for it ." He laughed outright. "That's the 2nd thing I hear, then I hear why they want it. What's your story?" He wasn't laughing at me: just the predictable constancy of the request, and the strong wish to own it. "Nope. I'll never part with that sign. It's my family's story, too."
My maternal grandfather, the oldest of 11 children, was born in Lowell, Mass, the oldest of 11 kids born to young Irish immigrants - one who landed in PA, the other, MA. They settled in Lowell, where all their children were born. They all looked like the map of Ireland as they aged: w/fierce blue eyes, all with snow white hair in their late 40s. As the oldest, my grandfather had the same hiring discrimination all 'last immigrant waves' encounter, so started a grocery store which soon became six grocery stores, and since they all looked Irish, staffed his grocery stores with his brothers and sisters. They all worked hard, they all made a good livings, and my g;'father bought his Irish immigrant parents a modest home in a nice neighborhood. Only the Stock Market Crash ushering in the Great Depression took it all away, but they all landed on their feet and carved out their own paths.
Before the Irish came to Lowell, came the Greeks, after the Irish wave, (in my grandfather's term, not in derision, but Lowell's slang) came the "Portagese." After them another immigrant wave. It's our HISTORY. No president & gov't body should ever erect a sign like "No Irish need apply," or legislate that Dreamers leave: THEY ARE US: THEY ARE ALL OF US."

Here is what former President Barack Obama wrote on his Facebook page today about the Dreamers:

"Immigration can be a controversial topic. We all want safe, secure borders and a dynamic economy, and people of goodwill can have legitimate disagreements about how to fix our immigration system so that everybody plays by the rules.

But that’s not what the action that the White House took today is about. This is about young people who grew up in America – kids who study in our schools, young adults who are starting careers, patriots who pledge allegiance to our flag. These Dreamers are Americans in their hearts, in their minds, in every single way but one: on paper. They were brought to this country by their parents, sometimes even as infants. They may not know a country besides ours. They may not even know a language besides English. They often have no idea they’re undocumented until they apply for a job, or college, or a driver’s license.

Over the years, politicians of both parties have worked together to write legislation that would have told these young people – our young people – that if your parents brought you here as a child, if you’ve been here a certain number of years, and if you’re willing to go to college or serve in our military, then you’ll get a chance to stay and earn your citizenship. And for years while I was President, I asked Congress to send me such a bill.

That bill never came. And because it made no sense to expel talented, driven, patriotic young people from the only country they know solely because of the actions of their parents, my administration acted to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people, so that they could continue to contribute to our communities and our country. We did so based on the well-established legal principle of prosecutorial discretion, deployed by Democratic and Republican presidents alike, because our immigration enforcement agencies have limited resources, and it makes sense to focus those resources on those who come illegally to this country to do us harm. Deportations of criminals went up. Some 800,000 young people stepped forward, met rigorous requirements, and went through background checks. And America grew stronger as a result.

But today, that shadow has been cast over some of our best and brightest young people once again. To target these young people is wrong – because they have done nothing wrong. It is self-defeating – because they want to start new businesses, staff our labs, serve in our military, and otherwise contribute to the country we love. And it is cruel. What if our kid’s science teacher, or our friendly neighbor turns out to be a Dreamer? Where are we supposed to send her? To a country she doesn’t know or remember, with a language she may not even speak?

Let’s be clear: the action taken today isn’t required legally. It’s a political decision, and a moral question. Whatever concerns or complaints Americans may have about immigration in general, we shouldn’t threaten the future of this group of young people who are here through no fault of their own, who pose no threat, who are not taking away anything from the rest of us. They are that pitcher on our kid’s softball team, that first responder who helps out his community after a disaster, that cadet in ROTC who wants nothing more than to wear the uniform of the country that gave him a chance. Kicking them out won’t lower the unemployment rate, or lighten anyone’s taxes, or raise anybody’s wages.

It is precisely because this action is contrary to our spirit, and to common sense, that business leaders, faith leaders, economists, and Americans of all political stripes called on the administration not to do what it did today. And now that the White House has shifted its responsibility for these young people to Congress, it’s up to Members of Congress to protect these young people and our future. I’m heartened by those who’ve suggested that they should. And I join my voice with the majority of Americans who hope they step up and do it with a sense of moral urgency that matches the urgency these young people feel.

Ultimately, this is about basic decency. This is about whether we are a people who kick hopeful young strivers out of America, or whether we treat them the way we’d want our own kids to be treated. It’s about who we are as a people – and who we want to be.

What makes us American is not a question of what we look like, or where our names come from, or the way we pray. What makes us American is our fidelity to a set of ideals – that all of us are created equal; that all of us deserve the chance to make of our lives what we will; that all of us share an obligation to stand up, speak out, and secure our most cherished values for the next generation. That’s how America has traveled this far. That’s how, if we keep at it, we will ultimately reach that more perfect union."

To me illegally is still against the law. If we adjust the LAW for this when do we draw the line? Why can't they take the proper steps to become a citizen legally? Because the process takes to long? That's no excuse, others are doing it so I believe everyone should have to follow the LAW. I know I will receive a lot of crap over this post but the law is the law, if we bend it for others we have to bend it for all.

What I scratch my head in bewilderment, cubby, is simply this:

Why do you care?

Is there an illegal immigrant problem in Montana, where these dastardly brown people are stealing our jobs and raping and murdering our citizenry?

No. We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation at 3.9%.

The latest data from Pew Research estimates our illegal immigrant population at less than 5,000. Pretty good for a state with a million people.

http://www.pewhispanic.or...mmigrants/

So, your concern is simply the illegality of their presence? Even though most of them were brought here as children by their parents, not knowing the illegality of their "crime"?

Why would you care?

My ancestors didn't have to wait for months and years to enter this country, just because Congress is totally dysfunctional.

So why do you care?

Cubby, would like to be responsible for your parents actions?

So just because these illegal people have not directly affected me, mean that the law shouldn't hold true to everyone? That makes no sense. I'm just saying if your here illegally then get out, don't care if it affects me or my family that's not the point here. I get it you guys are saying why blame it on the kid, they didn't know what was happening. So blame it on their parents then, they should have known what they were doing. To me the LAW is the LAW plain and simple. No gray area in the law, either it's right or wrong, for you or me doesn't matter on race or religion the law doesn't divide.

cubby has no sense of nuance.

Ya'll do realize, the DACA decision is about diverting your attention from Russia. Last week it was pardoning a crooked sheriff and the week before it was statue removal.

Let's stay focused.

Cubby is right. This is our country not theirs, and if they want to join our country then they have to go through the easy process of becoming a citizen. And Gunner you ask Cubby " why does he care". So I ask you Gunner, why do you seem to care? You seem to want illigels to come in, and youre criticizing Americans for them. To answer your question, if we opened our gates wide open for everyone and every scum of the earth to come into our country ( like every damn liberal wants) it would effect us in Montana. So this issue needs to stop now, we need to enforce the laws we have now. Let people come into the country legally and they are welcome. And like Cubby said before I probably going to get alot of unrealistic opinions on this

So, RJ, Cubby, and anyone else supporting this crap, let me get this straight...

You want to send people back to a place they've never been so they can attempt to come back home through a immigration process that is being shut down? And all of this is because the colonizing government in charge of making up the rules ran off the indigenous people with their big army, stole the land, and drew some arbitrary lines in the sand? Do you not see the irony of your small-minded thinking?

The economic costs of this are in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Why would you want to wreck the economy because some guy crossed the Rio Grande to have a chance to feed his family?

Well put, Richard.

And, RJ, the answer is, I don't care. My point is that illegal immigration does not affect me in any way. (I don't care about transgendered people going to the bathroom, either, but that's another debate )

I disagree with you premise that going through the immigration process is "easy". Have you ever dealt with the INS? The guy sitting next to me at work is from Australia, white guy, nice fellow, on a work visa. Despite being gainfully employed and sponsored by my employer, he had to go work at our office in Chile for a year last year simply because his visa expired and they would not grant him a new one. And they couldn't come up with a reason why. Simply bureaucratic red tape. And that was under the Obama administration. I shudder to think what it's like now, or of I was a brown person trying to enter this country legally.

Cubby, your assertion that the law defines what right or wrong is, well, questionable. By that logic, Rosa Parks should have gone to jail and the Civil Rights movement should never have happened because the law said that African Americans have to sit in the back of the bus.

Laws change all the time. That's why we have legislatures, to revise or repeal unjust laws. As I always tell my old friend who is a Carmelite friar, just because you break the law, it doesn't mean you have committed a sin.

Well, this is strange - I could swear I posted a reply to cubby and RJ's nonsense, but there's as much evidence for it as Mr. Trump's sense of shame.

Oh well - the gist of it's been covered by Richard and Gunnar: these are CHILDREN that you're demanding being held to THE LAW, a law whose prosecution entirely lies within the discretion of the Executive branch. It would be nice if Christian America would at least PRETEND to give a poop about all that jesusy crap about 'loving your neighbor', etc, etc, but they don't because it's payback time (also a jesusy value, I guess).

So I have to ask, how many of those illegals have been working on becoming a US citizen? Most likely none of them, because it takes too long they say. Well I'm sure they have kinfolk back in Mexico they can stay with till they follow the rules to return to the US

http://minnesota.cbslocal...tizenship/

Read this article, Cubby. There is no way for these people to become citizens.

One of the great ironies is, most of them live in what once was Mexico, before President Polk took it away by force.

So, I have a question? What is the current law on the Dreamer's Mr. Chubby??????

DJ4 please unjoin the discussion if your going to resort to name calling, that says a ton about you if that's how you get your point cross. Nice to hear you came up with something original LOL, never heard that one before.

OBAMA hand written letter to TRUMP "States Rule of law" So all you LIBS screaming FOUL is just kicking the can down the road. All TRUMP is saying is CONGRESS and SENATE is do your job and pass legal legislation or enforce law as written. If you don't care shut your PIEHOLE. BUILD THE WALL

We are just temporary occupants of this office," Obama wrote. "That makes us guardians of those democratic institutions and traditions -- like rule of law, separation of powers, equal protection and civil liberties -- that our forebears fought and bled for."

What. the. procreate?

My sincere apologies! Cubby, it really was my hands typing a more common word (chubby vs cubby)a typing error. Now politely, the Dreamers are still within the law, as it has been handed down to congress. Heck,they are going to kick the can down the road just like Bush, Obama did.

So,really this is a bogus post. So, I ask again, Cubby what's is the law on Dreamers? Let me answer a few. They have to work or school.They don't receive all of the government benefits that working Americans do. They pay taxes, and have to be documented, cannot commit any crimes. They can even serve in the armed forces. Contribute huge to the tax paying system, without the rewards.

Cubby- Don't worry about receiving a bunch of nasty replies on here, your view point is pretty much correct...all the liberals tag teaming you on here don't care one iota about the dreamers...not one little bit...they couldn't care less if they lived here or in some hole in the ground on the moon.....what they do care about is that they will vote and they want them to think they need to vote liberal, that is why they want them here...and for no other reason...except maybe it gives them a self-perceived righteous reason to gripe about Trump....don't let them try to say you are uncaring - they don't care - except about more votes and who they can convince to strengthen their voting base....they just aren't honest about it or willing to admit it.

Well said Ed

So its all just a vast liberal conspiracy. Like those hurricanes.

Hoo boy. I'm checking out of this thread. No point in arguing with closed minds.

DJ4, thanks for the apology, happens all the time. Well as for the question you asked me. I can understand that these young people cant really be held responsible for what their adults did with them, however I don't see any reason to grandfather them in just for that reason. The way I see it the adults that brought them here didn't do it by the rules set in place, so there for, there has to be consequences. The young will learn from the old ones that are breaking the law and continue to do so because they don't know any better and have never been taught the correct way. The correct way has to start somewhere, right? I love how some call others closed minded when themselves won't be open minded lol.

Simple legislation just might happen. Keep your fingers crossed.

The man from snowy plains wrote:

Simple legislation just might happen. Keep your fingers crossed.

It is kind of amazing that Trump would sell out his racist base to cut a deal with Nancy Pelosi, isn't it? I'll believe it when it happens.