Posted by Bobwindsor (+18) 5 years ago
So, what is going on in Miles City with the use of Illegal drugs? Over the last several years, I have seen the drug traffic increase immensely in Miles City. It seems that drugs are everywhere!! And the users and dealers are getting more and more brazen. Yesterday, I'm having a quiet drink in a local bar with some friends, and a young girl, who was definitely messed up on something, comes up to us and starts asking for pills. An hour later, after police are notified, she is still stumbling around. I could go on and on with examples, but everyone probably has their own stories.

Law Enforcement...I understand that you are very busy, and in a lot of cases have your hands tied, but this is our town, our community, and you are on our payroll! Yes, maybe some of these people will only get their hands slapped, but enough slaps and it starts to hurt! Would a list of names help? Address's? Maybe it's time to forget about the big dealers, and start going after the small ones and the users.

Citizens of Miles City... It's time to take a stand!!! It's time to clean up our community! Together we can get our town back from these drug dealers and users. Just turning our heads and thinking this problem will just go away doesn't work!!!! If we do nothing, we are just condoning the problem, and it will continue to grow.

Maybe this forum is not a good place to start, but I am one voice, and maybe my one voice will pick up other voices, and together our shouts will bring attention to the right ears and something will get done. This problem is huge in Miles City, and I really don't think a lot of people realize just how out of control it really is.
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Posted by Joe R. Whalen (+216) 5 years ago
Thanks for your post, Bob. This forum is as useful as any other as a good place to start.

I share your observation of widespread and growing substance abuse in Miles City but disagree with your framing of the issue and the remedy you've prescribe as a response. The situation you've described is the use and abuse of legal drugs, i.e. alcohol and pills, presumably painkillers such as opiates. So, the more important question for me is, what has changed that has given rise to a more obvious substance abuse in Miles City?

But, first, is it only more obvious to you or to me? If so, why is that? If not, are there objective resources such as public health data and arrest records supporting our observations? If our observations are supported, what local factors correlate with the rise in substance abuse to the degree they could be considered causes?

These questions are important, I think, before immediately farming out the problem to law enforcement as a supply-side response. I hope we've learned by now that the "War on Drugs" has been a failure for all but the network of agencies and private enterprises that profit from higher rates of incarceration. Supply follows demand. What's firing the demand for alcohol, painkillers and methamphetamine in Miles City ahead of normal addictive response?
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Posted by Kelly (+2647) 5 years ago
Amen Joe!
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Posted by Marie Connors (+40) 5 years ago
I'm with Bob! Meth is the real problem here and it is time for all of us to do something about it.
Joe is just doing the song and dance. I am so sick of those kinds of answers and excuses.
Meth is in my very neighborhood. We want to do something about it. It would be great if the Mayor and police would seriously get behind us. Show Bob and I that you feel the same way in this forum. Let's take a strong stand against it together. Meth affects us all- the users are crazy in their behavior!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
Marie Connors wrote:
the users are crazy in their behavior!

Practically subhuman, one might say...
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Posted by cubby (+2618) 5 years ago
What do you suggest, have the police and mayor go from door to door asking if people use meth? I mean, their is a way to handle this. My way is to set a 100lbs of it in the middle of a football field and tell them they can have and do all they want for free and then just lock them in there till they either kill each other or over dose. Problem solved. What do you think?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 5 years ago
Rather like the Cuban embargo, just because the War on Drugs has failed for the last half century is no reason to expect it to fail in the future.
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Posted by Tomm (-1037) 5 years ago
I agree Marie. Look at the stupid responses so far.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
cubby wrote:
What do you think?

I think that hell is rapidly defrosting for kelly and i...
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Posted by cubby (+2618) 5 years ago
Either that or put them all in treatment and let all of us working people pay their way through it. That's a good plan!!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
It would probably result in less overall human misery and degredation, but why should THAT be concern for the good Christian citizens of Miles City? FTYGY!

[Edited by Bridgier (8/18/2015 5:20:16 PM)]
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+793) 5 years ago
Think what it is costing the community with the related problems to the increase of substance abuse such as domestic violence and child abuse and negligence. School will be opening soon. I remember years ago the drug dealers use to gather at noon in the neighbor hoods of Washington School. It probably still is a gathering spot.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
I bet Cubby and Tomm think that we should drug test welfare recipients as well.
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Posted by AFAB (+94) 5 years ago
Give me one good reason why we shouldn't drug test welfare recipients?
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Posted by Kelly (+2647) 5 years ago
Because it costs more money than it saves.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
some things are worth more than money kelly. Can you put a price on the righteous indignation? How precious is having someone lower than you on the socioeconomic ladder to spit on when you're feeling the pinch of austerity policies championed by the people that you voted for?
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Posted by Bobwindsor (+18) 5 years ago
Well, a lot of different responses to my initial topic. Some sound like they might have an idea of the scale of this problem. Others? Well? Everyone has a right to their own opinion, and I'm not denouncing any of those with the courage to respond, whether they be for or against a solution to this increasing problem. Drugs are everywhere!! The increasing usage amongst our people in the community is growing every day. We must ask ourselves why? And what can we do to be part of a solution? If it means bombarding law enforcement with phone calls, sooner or later they will start to listen. Most users do not carry enough on their person to get more than a slap on the wrist. Most dealers know the ins and the outs of how not to get caught. I feel we need to start by alerting law enforcement of any drug behavior that we are aware of. If there is no response, call again. And again if need be.

This forum may be another good spot for solutions. I noticed a while back that law enforcement posted a notice looking for information on a hit and run accident. But yet they have not posted any suggestions on this topic. We can only assume that they do read these articles. So maybe it is time that we start posting, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH". Lets stand together and remedy this problem.

By the way, I am for drug testing people who are on government programs. I get drug tested at my place of employment so I can earn the money to pay the taxes that provide finances for these programs. Why should somebody that is receiving these benefits not have to endure the same? Doesn't mean they all have to be tested, but randomly? Why not?
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Posted by Joe R. Whalen (+216) 5 years ago
Where do you want to start, the convenience stores, the country club or the pharmacies?



[Edited by Joe R. Whalen (8/19/2015 9:16:24 PM)]
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Posted by David Schott (+16722) 5 years ago
Let's say you drug test a welfare recipient -- say a single parent and a couple of kids. The parent tests positive for marijuana. Do you kick the parent and kids off welfare? Do you take the kids away and put them in a foster home setting? Throw the parent in jail? Put them in drug treatment? Are you willing to pay MORE TAXES to make that happen?

What if most of these welfare-system-abusers that we think are out there are actually addicted to legal prescription pain meds or alcohol. They won't test positive for illegal drugs. Have you accomplished anything by spending money on the drug testing program? Do you plan to go after legal drugs as well?

I often think that people have the mindset that welfare recipients are a bunch of drug addicts sitting around the house all day watching welfare-sponsored cable TV, eating welfare-sponsored t-bone steaks, smoking welfare cigarettes, and drinking welfare light beer. They think the government can save money by drug testing them and kicking them off welfare. That strikes me as not a very well-thought-out plan.

Further what you will find is there are a handful of companies out there that make a business of administering drug tests and companies that make money treating drug addicts. These companies are lobbying your legislators hard to pass mandatory drug testing legislation. They even write the legislation and hand it to legislators to sponsor it. Enough of that, I say.
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Posted by Sledge H. (+12) 5 years ago
So, what if this single parent with kids is tested positive at work? Then just go to welfare were its ok?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14882) 5 years ago
Show me the usual person hooked on meth or hard drugs and I'll show you a child that was left behind by our education system. I am NOT blaming teachers for the problem here, rather the systematic approach we use in teaching the basics of reading comprehension and math.

Funny how there is alway an outcry and willingness to spend moneyfor police/military action against those who fail to fit the conservative mold of behavior, but god  help us if we spend money on helping kids with learning disabilities by teaching them to read and comprehend. Why are we so focused on elimination of drug users after the fact rather than prevention of kids getting involved in the first place by making sure they can read and comprehend what the are reading. Let's deal with issues like phonemic awareness, disgraphia and dislexia.

Some want a local police crackdown but those same individuals are too damn cheap to pay for a procreateing school bus system in Custer county. This "problem" didn't start yesterday and it won't be solved tomorrow. It requires a longer term effort. We need to lose the "war" approach and try something else.

Joe, as usual, asks some very good questions.

[Edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (8/20/2015 6:24:52 AM)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
That strikes me as not a very well-thought-out plan.


If the plan is PUNISH THE SINNERS, then I think they've spent a LOT of time thinking it through. A lot of time, and a lot of tissues.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 5 years ago
This sounds EXACTLY like the hysterics that ran rampant when I was in high school. Back in the 1970s.

People like to adjust themselves chemically. Always have. Always will. Just making profits for private prisons hasn't helped in this country so maybe it is time to come up with a DIFFERENT SOLUTION. Maybe one that works.

Like striking at the causes of addiction. Like treating the addiction. Like doing something besides locking up millions of people and spending millions of dollars on private prisons.

ETA: Oh, the HUGE profits made by the pee-in-a-cup companies. The company in Florida made a fortune and found out that poor people can't afford drugs and so use less than the general population.

When the reason to "crack down" on drugs is to make a profit for corporations, you are doing it wrong.

[Edited by Amorette Allison (8/20/2015 10:06:19 AM)]
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3669) 5 years ago
As usual people tend to look down their nose to what they consider the lowest, common denominator when seeking solutions to drug and alcohol problem.

I grew up at a time when Doctors routinely prescribed Dexedrine (pure Meth) and any number of barbiturates that are now illegal and much more dangerous than many street drugs.

Edgar Rice Burroughs lived a long productive life, while being a heroin addict. At a time when the average life span was in the low sixties he made it to seventy five, Other notable icons include, Robert Louis Stevenson, Aldous Huxley, Jean Paul Sartre, Poe, etc, etc. I had to laugh when I read that Robert Louis Stevenson once wrote 60,000 words in six days, while writing "The Strange Case Of Dr Jeykyll and Mr Hyde". It was funny because I could relate.

I hope that I don't shock or surprise my many friends in Miles City as I relate experiences in my life before Montana. I started using Dexedrine and white crosses from my teens. During the sixties and seventies I learned that pot wasn't my thing, as it rendered me null and void. I managed some success and made some money, legitimately, As the Senior Planner of a major east Los Angeles City, Then later as a property developer in southern California.

As senior planner, I carried a badge and was a sworn officer responsible for code enforcement with six officers working for me. I also had a cocaine habit. I learned that there is a lot of cocaine available in city evidence lockers. The City Clerk that I worked with at the time knew it as well. I also made friends with a couple of dentists. Did you know that Dentists get the best cocaine on the planet? Did you know that there are bars known as cop bars where alcohol abuse and stories of abuse that you don't want to hear exist in every city? As a property developer and consultant I could afford to take my habits to a different level. I will bore you no further with this grim tale except to say that the people that I associated with were not on any welfare rolls and we enjoyed many comped trips to Las Vegas. Alas all good things must come to an end.

My first heart attack was at thirty-nine years of age. Cocaine and alcohol will do that. My septum had been repaired once and still had to be repaired twice after that. I am sixty-nine now, still have nose bleeds from time to time and my nose looks like a half eaten carrot. My old friends just thought I could drink a lot and not get drunk. The truth is the only reason I drank was so I could consume more and more cocaine.

Full circle time. I discovered crystal meth (back to snorting the dexi's and white crosses of my foolish youth). Cheap, longer effect than Cocaine and deadly. without going into details of the physical and financial devastation and the family damage. Two years after my first "Cardiac Event" I found help and have been clean since with the exception of a fondness for the occasional and I mean occasional IPA or single malt scotch........What's the point?

The point is, stop looking down your nose and considering this a problem confined to the gutter and welfare recipients. Start looking at your neighbors and friends and professionals that you deal with and interact with every day and admit that it is a systemic problem that needs self education and study.

Marijuana is legal in Colorado. I am fine with that but still don't use it. Marijuana related crimes have gone down and more medical benefits are being discovered and endorsed by the AMA. Fewer people have been shot and beheaded on the Mexico border since it is grown, taxed and controlled here.

I'm not advocating legalizing all drugs. I am saying it is time to look outside the borders of America. If you want answers about drug addiction ask a drug addict. The most abused drugs in America are Doctor prescribed, legal over the counter medication and alcohol. Dialog, not blame.
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Posted by atomicg (+1003) 5 years ago
At first this sounded like something I'd see from an episode of The Wire but LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition) seems to be a real thing. This 20 year police captain has some good points.

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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
The "War on Drugs" has been an unmitigated disaster that was doomed from the start. The whole concept ignored the unquestionable historical truth that if you want something to be cheap and available, all you have to do is ban it. The sad part of the whole affair is the trail of human carnage, not to mention the unspeakable waste of resources which has created......what? The slaughter of innocents, mass incarcerations, rampant corruption,a southern boarder war zone, Chicago, Detroit, gang wars on the streets of every city.

Pretty much what you would expect from prohibition.

I don't know what the answer is, but what has been going on is an abject failure. Like Tucker says, legalization is probably not the answer, but decriminalization, recognition of the human problem and treatment for the addiction is a place to start.

[Edited by Oddjob (8/22/2015 7:56:36 AM)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 5 years ago
I'm a bit nonplussed by this but Oddjob is absolutely 100% correct.
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Posted by David Schott (+16722) 5 years ago
99.9% -- "boarder" should be "border".
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
Dammit. Yes. It should be border.

You shouldn't too disconcerted that conservatives might actually know what works and what doesn't, Miss Wendy. As a child of the '60's, I have been on both sides; the politics, the issue and the border.

But never fear. I still think someone asking for government handouts should pee in a cup.

If I gotta do it for the pleasure of forking over the dough to them, why should they get a free ride? Your favorite Federal Courts have insured that none of us have any privacy left anyway, so life's a bitch and then you die.......
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
And now you know the secret to trump's current success - there's a large segment of the conservative base who will happily spend $100 to save $1 if it means they get to be an asshole to someone worse off than themselves.

I mean, just look at some of the people commenting in this very thread...

[Edited by Bridgier (8/23/2015 8:15:08 AM)]
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
Boo f'n hoo..

You know, Bridgier... We assholes would probably be a little more sympathetic if Obama hadn't been so successful at creating tens of millions more who are "worse off" than they were before they ever heard his name.. It's the ONLY damn thing the guy has been successful at.

We are all "worse off" than we were 6 1/2 years ago. If you don't believe that, look at your pay stub and your insurance bill. I paid enough in taxes last year to buy a damn fine new car, but I'm still driving my 10 year-old beater.

So the next time my number comes up for a random piss test and another exercise in utter human degradation, I'll just have to remember how important it is to be clean, so I can continue to service those who are "worse off" than me.
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Posted by AFAB (+94) 5 years ago
AMEN Oddy. Well said.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 5 years ago
Awesome post, Oddjob. You're the best!

Boo f'n hoo, you say. Then you cry like a procreateing bitch for the remainder of your post!

PRO TIP: Your Federal taxes have not increased during the Obama administration, you dippoop.

If you're paying more in taxes than you were 6.5 years ago, it means you're making more money.

Math. Is. Hard.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 5 years ago
I am certainly better off now than I was 6.5 years ago.

But that should not diminish from Oddjob's epic first post in this thread. You rock, dude!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 5 years ago
Let's see. The banks were failing. The economy was in a near depression. Jobs were being lost left and right. And that was the fault of WHICH president?

The Republican lie about Democrats being bad for the economy is just that. A LIE. Look up the statistics sometime or at least find a new lie.

And stop wasting money on making poor people pee in a cup. It COSTS a fortune and never saves a damn dime. ALSO THE TRUTH.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
Oh oddy - I remember being a wee lad of 18, who thought Rush Limbaugh was the greatest thinker this fine country had ever produced, and even though The Kenyan Usurper was still many a year away from stealing that election from noted family values aficionado Jack Ryan, it was STILL nothing but all butthurt, all the time for the Rushbo.

So, please don't pretend that the wiley Musrim forced conservatives to accept the snake-oil that Mr. Trump is currently peddling, because that poop's been flying off the shelves for years.

(and my pay stub looks pretty sweet compared to 2008, so maybe there's some bootstraps that need pulling if yours does not)

[Edited by Bridgier (8/24/2015 9:08:48 AM)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14882) 5 years ago
Oddjob saith:
You shouldn't too disconcerted that conservatives might actually know what works and what doesn't, Miss Wendy. As a child of the '60's, I have been on both sides; the politics, the issue and the border.


So what events happen that attracted you to the John Birtch Society side of the isle?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
PLEASE TELL US WHERE THE DIRTY HIPPY TOUCHED YOU.

Shiny bottles of butthurt have been on sale now for a looooong time: http://harpers.org/archiv...-politics/

But currently, the purveyors on the right seem to have a near monopoly.

[Edited by Bridgier (8/24/2015 2:07:39 PM)]
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
Yeah. Math is hard.

Payroll taxes are up, the Bush tax cuts are gone and there is now an IRS penalty for not buying health insurance.

If you prospered during the last 7 years, you are the anomaly. Millions are "worse off".
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 5 years ago
Why are you so stubborn? Reality is reality. Evolution is real and the economy has IMPROVED dramatically since 2008. Remember the Great Recession? It is GONE NOW.

You may enjoy lying to yourself to support your prejudices but it just makes you look like an idiot.

Faux News is not REAL. Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh et all, are nutjobs who want ratings so they MAKE STUFF UP.

In the real world, employment is up; housing prices are up, the stock market is UP overall compared to 2008. Yes, wages have stagnated and the rich are getting RICHER but that is what you want, isn't it?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 5 years ago
Amorette is correct. Nearly everyone I know is better off now than they were seven years ago. Sure, there was a small percentage of people who got laid off or had a shady mortgage, but I don't know any of those people.

If you kept your job and kept contributing to your employer's 401k account and, like me, contributed the maximum amount and directed it all to the stock market, you are WAY better off.

You can bet dollars to donuts that if, come November 2016, this country elects a Republican president, I will moving all of that into money market.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 5 years ago
Payroll taxes are up,

Incorrect. The employee's share of FICA was lowered by 2% in 2011 and 2012 under the "Making Work Pay" credit. This expired in 2013. Your current payroll taxes are the same as they were 6.5 years ago.

the Bush tax cuts are gone

Do you make more than $400,000 per year ($450,000 if married)? If not, the Bush tax cuts never expired. Since you own a 10 year old car, I kinda doubt you were affected.

and there is now an IRS penalty for not buying health insurance.

Then buy some goddamn health insurance, you procreateing deadbeat!



Just keep making poop up, Oddjob. Maybe someone will actually believe you!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
Maybe he needs to start selling drugs. Sounds like MC is a booming market.
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
I don't know which is more entertaining; your individual meltdowns or the tag team freak-out.

I believe the rapidly shrinking middle class would disagree with your proclamations of prosperity. Some of you may be crawling back to where you were 7 years ago but are you really not "worse off" having acquired an additional $10 trillion in debt?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 5 years ago
Hey Oddjob, let's see if you've learned anything...


Are your payroll taxes higher?


Are your income taxes higher?


Mine aren't. And my net worth has increased about 300% since Obama took office. Sucks you be you, I guess!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
Well, now I'm confused. Are you talking about TARP?
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
Reply to Bob L. (#361279)
Bob L. wrote:


Mine aren't.

(That's BS.)

HaHa!

(Hey look, Bridgier! The old FYIGM!)

And my net worth has increased about 300% since Obama took office. Sucks you be you, I guess!


Hardly, Bob. I've been in the gold and metals business for 35 years. Democrats keep me working. Up or down is just a matter of long or short.

Price of metals down? Well, right now the price of water is up. It's just a matter of making the adjustment.

What do you do Bob? Sell guns or insurance?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 5 years ago
That's good on ya, OJ!

As for me, Republicans keep me working.

So I guess that it is all good.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 5 years ago
Oddjob wrote:
Hardly, Bob. I've been in the gold and metals business for 35 years. Democrats keep me working. Up or down is just a matter of long or short.

Glad to hear you're doing well! Hey, wait a minute...

Oddjob wrote:
We are all "worse off" than we were 6 1/2 years ago. If you don't believe that, look at your pay stub and your insurance bill. I paid enough in taxes last year to buy a damn fine new car, but I'm still driving my 10 year-old beater.

So the next time my number comes up for a random piss test and another exercise in utter human degradation, I'll just have to remember how important it is to be clean, so I can continue to service those who are "worse off" than me.

Hmmmm. This doesn't quite add up.

I guess Fred Sanford was also in the "gold and metals business"??
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
Some of you may be crawling back to where you were 7 years ago but are you really not "worse off" having acquired an additional $10 trillion in debt?


GODDAMNIT ODDY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT TARP!?!?!?!
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 5 years ago
You know what I'm talking about. Your share is about $50K and climbing, so you better get back to work.........

[Edited by Oddjob (8/31/2015 9:41:14 AM)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 5 years ago
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