Excellent article by Paul Krugman on President Obama's achievements in the current issue of Rolling Stone

http://www.rollingstone.c...a-20141008

Dang you beat me to it. The Kruginator did a great job.

And, unfortunately, almost no one leaning right will read that article from beginning to end.

I believe everyone can already unite upon the next President and stop with any wasteful political maneuverings and the whole distasteful election mudslinging contest.

Hillary Clinton

Satisfies the left since she is a democrat and led the fight for such causes as universal health care, when it wasn't cool.

Satisfies the right since when it was a choice between her, Obama, and Romney a majority of the right felt that she was the strongest to lead in any issue involving foreign affairs.

Satisfies the independent since she is obviously a woman and will shatter another Presidential barrier in this country which denies itself to be bigoted in every sense except real life.

Saves time since the republican party is in the midst of an identity crisis wallowing in ridiculous internal battles over moral issues that have no place on a national platform and propel frightening glimpses of what could have been with a victory of a Bachmann type.

Satisfies me since I can finally remove my "Don't blame me, I wanted Hillary" bumper sticker.

Still are we for Hillary!

Cheers!
FH

I read every word, and what I found was a remarkable lack of statistics and sources to back up Krugman's grandiose declarations of success. I find that extremely troubling, especially coming from an economist. You should have seen that, as well.

Several things jumped out to me. His fawning praise for the success of Obamacare while ignoring the fact that the most onerous provisions of the Act have been repeatedly (and illegally) pushed back for political reasons. We shall see if the word "success" is still attached in several years.

Secondly, his claim that average income has recovered to pre-recession levels. That's a statement I have only heard from Krugman. Googled it. Nothing comes up to back him up.

He quickly glossed over the unemployment rate, giving minor passing credit for the numbers decreasing due to the dropout rate. He ignores the fact that the dropout rate is higher now than at any point since the Great Depression. (Numerous reports dated as late as 8/14)

Webmaster

I see the statement posted here repeatedly that Conservatives are ill-informed because they choose ignore "the other side". I am an insatiable consumer of news and opinion from multiple sources, Left, Right and Center. Most of the Conservatives I know, and have discussions with, are equally informed or even more voracious consumers than I am. We still read newspapers, periodicals and listen to radio. We read the New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today and LA Times. We listen to NPR, and the BBC . We watch the Networks, MSNBC, CNN and Al Jazeera. We devourer the Internet and, yes, we watch Fox News and listen to Limbaugh and Levin.

The biggest problem I run into when I am trying to have a discussion on some point with Liberals is, most of the time they don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Not only that, but when the liberals have no back up facts, or when they finally realize they are wrong, they start attacking the person with the facts. It is in the liberals hand book. "If you find your self backed in a corner, attack the opposition. Call them names, attack their families, and accuse them of never having an education. Look our here it comes.

There is no denying the entertainment value of this website.

"President Obola, close are boarders now!"

Dow Jones Industrial Average when Bush left office: 7,949

Current Dow Jones Industrial Average: 16,544


My stock portfolio has more than doubled since Obama took office.

How 'bout you, teabag bitches????

@Oddjob I also consume various news sources. I tend to lean a bit left or towards the middle on many issues, and somewhat right for others. I try to be moderate in my position and consider all sides -- but it sometimes becomes very difficult to even consider the right when tea party and crowd followers show up regurgitating Fox News talking points, spewing the latest random (often misspelled) sound bites, such as "Obuma is destryoing America", without any sort of discussion or follow-up. A few more eloquent speakers from the right would be welcome, and quite a few more from the middle even more.

I would welcome some more of my fellow reasonable centrists. I can't always go it alone.

"Dow Jones Industrial Average when Bush left office: 7,949

Current Dow Jones Industrial Average: 16,544


My stock portfolio has more than doubled since Obama took office."

Good for you.

You will need it.
Just got back from the store.

T-bone steak at Raleys

When Bush left office $3.99/lb
Current $9.49/lb

"Oddjob" needs to go read the drought thread.

U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics: Consumer Price Index - Average Price Data, Steak, sirloin, USDA Choice, boneless, per lb.

Raley's ran out of "beef" apparently...

Aren't higher beef prices better for Montana Stockgrowers anyway?

They are.

Not so much for low or fixed income people.

How about using some real data?

Consumer Price Index - January 2009 = 211.143
Current CPI = 237.072

Annual Increases in CPI
2009 -.4%
2010 1.6%
2011 3.2%
2012 2.1%
2013 1.5%

Of course, Republicans like Oddjob don't believe in facts, they just make poop up.

Eh. Republicans can constantly come up with facts to prove that the Democrats are wrong. Democrats can come up with other facts to prove the Republicans are wrong.

The reality is both sides are wrong, just about different things.

The real fight is over ideology, and on that front you'll NEVER get all races, classes or groups to agree.

There is never any way to make everybody happy so the best thing to do is have a healthy compromise. Politicians aren't willing to do that, hence, gridlock.

Yup . . . this twisted notion that compromise is evil, not only got us where we are today, it’s preventing us from digging ourselves out this hole.

That's about the smartest comment Forsyth Mike has posted.

I agree and Bob L., I really wish you would stop calling me a Republican.

Oh, and how is making poop up any different than posting numbers coming from this Administration?

Typical teabag response, Oddjob.

The numbers are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and only a partisan no-nothing hack would dispute them.

Feel better now Bob?

Are you in the market for a bridge?

Maybe I'd believe the numbers if they included the unimportant things like food, fuel and utilities.

[This message has been edited by Oddjob (10/13/2014)]

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cp...Question_6

What goods and services does the CPI cover?

The CPI represents all goods and services purchased for consumption by the reference population (U or W) BLS has classified all expenditure items into more than 200 categories, arranged into eight major groups. Major groups and examples of categories in each are as follows:

FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, full service meals, snacks)
HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)
APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)
TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)
MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)
RECREATION (televisions, toys, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).

Holy crap, did Rickenhawk move to Nevada???

I think Bob L. hit the nail on the head.

Thanks to President Obama, my guns appreciated 500% and I sold them and bought Facebook stock.

see me.

Laughing all the way to the bank.

Thanks stupid Republican sheep

I'm sure all the folks living pay check to pay check (f they have one) are thrilled to hear that you two are doing so well.

Look at that. "Oddjob" pretending to care about poor people. Isn't that touching.

That's nothing - in the moral politics thread, he's pretending to care about all the jews killed by stalin, or something.

David Schott wrote:

"Oddjob" needs to go read the drought thread.

http://data.bls.gov/times...ol=XGtable

Why is the chart at the BLS site showing that the price per pound of beef in August 2012 was $6.718 when the USDA which gets its information from the BLS shows the price per pound for beef in August 2012 is $3.447?

Both agencies are Government controlled; the USDA is getting its data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, yet numbers published by the BLS for public disclosure is virtually twice what it reported to the USDA. Please view the USDA report at http://ers.usda.gov/dataf...s/cuts.xls

Strange that I have to agree with Oddjob, I recall paying under four dollars a pound near the end of 2008 for a good steak and can't touch it now for under twice that cost. Even at the discount food stores. Yes, if you look at the most expensive cuts of steak, the prices are more alike. But is everyone in the country able to afford what the BLS is quoting on their charts? Unlikely.

Incorrect date from Official sources makes people who understand economics better understand why so many people are so confused by the misrepresentations that they eventually choose to use as justifications.

Better research might yield more accurate results.

[This message has been edited by Donald Mullikin (10/14/2014)]

Donald, I don't think you are reading the spreadsheet correctly. (Or I am misunderstanding your point.) In that spreadsheet if you look at column N the price per pound for USDA Choice boneless sirloin steak in August 2012 was $6.718. That is what the graph above is depicting.

Your price of $3.447/pound is for ground chuck which should be a significantly cheaper beef product than USDA Choice sirloin steak.

Math is hard.

Economics is hard.

Reading is hard.

[This message has been edited by Bob L. (10/15/2014)]

My favorite part about this thread is Oddjob, the defender of the poor and downtrodden, complaining that the great unwashed masses can't afford to eat beef 5 days a week.

Poor minimum wage earners. No boneless ribeye for you! That's okay, you would probably fry it until it was well done, and put ketchup on it.

This is my favorite part of the thread

Oddjob wrote:

Maybe I'd believe the numbers if they included the unimportant things like food, fuel and utilities.

Oh good.

It's only an 18.5% price increase for sirloin steak in 2 years. I feel much better now! (BLS price was $4.92 in Q1, 2009 a 40% increase in 5 years)

Bob L.

I think the "official" answer to that is no, but...yes. Depends on which index you are looking at, the headline or the core. I believe what they are trying to say in this bureau-speak is that the number fed to the media is the core which does not include food and energy.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpiqa.htm

"Has the BLS removed food or energy prices in its official measure of inflation?

No. The BLS publishes thousands of CPI indexes each month, including the headline All Items CPI for All Urban Consumers (CPI-U) and the CPI-U for All Items Less Food and Energy. The latter series, widely referred to as the "core" CPI, is closely watched by many economic analysts and policymakers under the belief that food and energy prices are volatile and are subject to price shocks that cannot be damped through monetary policy. However, all consumer goods and services, including food and energy, are represented in the headline CPI."

Math is hard.

Economics is hard.

Reading is hard.

You've come a long way, oddjob!

You started out questioning the numbers.

You've progressed to the point of understanding that it's way too complicated for your tiny pea brain.



[This message has been edited by Bob L. (10/16/2014)]

I noticed that "certified angus" t-bone steaks were on sale for $4.99/pound at my local QFC grocery store yesterday. These were not bulk packaged steaks -- just a single steak in a package at $4.99/pound. And QFCs are probably the highest-priced mainstream grocery stores in the Seattle area.

Jump on 'em.

Smith's "Value-Pac" t-bones are $8.99/lb here. Albertson's t-bones are $9.99/lb.

Loss-leaders are a wonderful thing.

Seattle?Where do you live David Schott?If you live in Seattle,1000miles and several entirely different socio-economic regions away(depending on what route you take that includes driving or flying private or commercial)why do you always have your nose in Miles City and Montana issues,local and State?Do you own extensive property or investments in Miles City or in the State of Montana?Are you a registered voter in Montana?Is there nothing for your nose in Seattle?Can you not straighten out the populace in that west port city?Once again.Where do you live David Schott and where are you registered to vote.

While David and I are mostly on different sides of the fence, you must be a "New Comer" to Miles City and MC.com to question his loyalty and interest in MC. He grew up in MC, graduated from here, Mother still lives here and he gets back to visit her often. Your comments are out of line and are distasteful to all. An apology is in order, no matter your political leanings. Despite the anonymity of the web and board it is always nice to post under your own name so all can see who you are. :!;

Thanks, Ike.

"Jett": Grow a pair and post under your real name or get lost.

Wouldn't it be funny if Jett was his real name?

Jett 's realname is probably Herbert or Dak