Posted by klr58ne (+9) 7 years ago
According to news reports, as many as 30 states should see gas prices drop to below $3 per gallon in the next few weeks. So why are we still at $3.49? Doesn't this inhibit our economic growth in the area?
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+787) 7 years ago
I remember back in the 1950's of driving to Yellowstone Park and was shocked to see gas was $.49 a gallon, twenty cents a gallon higher than Bozeman.
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Posted by SeptyTwo (+663) 7 years ago
Worked at a gas station in the 90's.. customers always complained about rising gas... One guy, after noticing that our Super Unleaded went up to $1.49, said "If it goes up again, I'm going somewhere else!"

This was in Southern California... you COULD go somewhere else to save 2 cents a gallon, but it would cost you 5 cents a gallon getting there.
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Posted by MRH (+1495) 7 years ago
Found it interesting on Monday morning that the price for diesel in Hysham was similar to Billings, which was 4 cents/gallon cheaper than in Miles City.
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
$2.919/gal for regular unleaded at the Kirkland, WA, Costco today (Fri, 10/24/2014).
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3259) 7 years ago
I was a Senior in High School in 1954 and everyone had to chip in to put gas in the car to burn the point. It was $.28/gal and you needed a couple of gallons for the evening.
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Posted by Forsyth Mike (+480) 7 years ago
MRH wrote:
Found it interesting on Monday morning that the price for diesel in Hysham was similar to Billings, which was 4 cents/gallon cheaper than in Miles City.

Gas is usually cheaper in Hysham than it is in Forsyth too. And the station in Hysham doesn't even have a casino to pad the bottom line.
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2052) 7 years ago
$3.29 in Minot
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Posted by Dan Mowry (+1439) 7 years ago
Pleasantly surprised again.

$2.89 Ethanol blend this morning here in Des Moines.
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Posted by MRH (+1495) 7 years ago
Forsyth Mike wrote:
And the station in Hysham doesn't even have a casino to pad the bottom line.

Interesting comment, but I've never thought that the presence of a casino, impacted the price of fuel where I shop. I've seen no evidence to support this statement.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10002) 7 years ago
$2.99 now in the heights.
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Posted by Dave Roberts (+1504) 7 years ago
$1.89 unleaded, $2.79 #2 diesel here now
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9960) 7 years ago
Holding steady at $7.29 a gallon here in King Salmon.
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Posted by Grandma Hoopy (+145) 7 years ago
Diesel dropped to $2.969 per gallon today and unleaded is $2.529 per gallon in Belfair WA. Yay!
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Posted by Forsyth Mike (+480) 7 years ago
MRH wrote:
I've never thought that the presence of a casino, impacted the price of fuel where I shop. I've seen no evidence to support this statement.

Well the major gas station here in town is owned by Town Pump, a wealthy Montana corporation with lots of hotels and casinos; and the station in Hysham is an independent mom-n-pop operation with just a convenience store, yet their gas is regularly anywhere from 4 to 9 cents cheaper than the Town Pump here in town. I have no idea why this is. I was just guessing about the casino "helping out" Town Pump's bottom line.

Gas here is 2.479 right now.

[This message has been edited by Forsyth Mike (12/19/2014)]
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Posted by SeptyTwo (+663) 7 years ago
Business trip in Tennessee at the moment...

Around Nashville when I flew in was around $2.39ish...

Now about 40 miles east of Knoxville, in Greenville... it has ranged from about $2.25 and just saw one gas station running at $2.18
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14969) 7 years ago
It's a $1.99/gal in Albuquerque. I paid 2.43 today here in Farmington. I'm 10 lies from the refinery. Stupid how this works.
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
Forsyth Mike, it would interesting to know how gasoline gets delivered to the Hysham and Forsyth stations and if that impacts the price. Different distributor? Different trucking distances?

It appears that Cenex has a refined products pipeline that runs from Laurel to Minot via Hysham, Forsyth, Miles City, etc.:



It would be interesting to know where along that pipeline refined product is taken out and then trucked to the final destination. And do all gas stations (regardless of brand) get their gasoline off that pipeline or do some brands (i.e. Conoco) move their refined product by truck instead of pipeline?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11796) 7 years ago
I believe Oddie blamed the rise in oil prices on the President. Who is responsible now that they are plunging?
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Posted by Kelly (+2713) 7 years ago
Also, Newt Gingrich made $2.50/gallon gas a focal point of his failed presidential bid. Today it was $2.52/gallon at M&H. Thanks Obama!
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
post by David Schott
Forsyth Mike, it would interesting to know how gasoline gets delivered to the Hysham and Forsyth stations and if that impacts the price. Different distributor? Different trucking distances?
It appears that Cenex has a refined products pipeline that runs from Laurel to Minot via Hysham, Forsyth, Miles City, etc.:


I do believe that you may be mistaking a natural gas pipeline for a fuel Oil pipeline.

I know that the arrowed black lines say they are refined product.
But it is not saying what refined product it is.

The hint I guess would be, is CENEX primarily a fuel oil company or is it mostly a Propane company? Yes they do deal in lubricants and fuel oils, but their primary business is propane. http://www.cenex.com/

After all, when you look at the Billings area, you see both Natural Gas and Fuel Oil going into their refineries. What comes out on what refined product line I'm sure will do mostly with who the company is that owns that line.
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
Donald, Cenex Harvest States (CHS) owns an oil refinery in Laurel, Montana.

http://www.chsinc.com/ene...rial/fuels

• Our two refineries at Laurel, Mont., and McPherson, Kan., have a combined 140,000-barrels-per-day processing capacity, and we're investing significantly to increase that production to create an even more dependable supply of quality diesel fuels, gasoline and other products to meet our customers' growing needs.

• We move product to the marketplace through more than 2,500 miles of pipeline.

•We make continued investments to upgrade our refineries to meet changing emissions requirements and to squeeze more fuel out of every barrel of crude oil.

•We offer our customers assistance in mitigating price risk and keep them connected to a dependable supply through nearly 3 million barrels of finished product storage, a dozen of our own refined products terminals, and over 250 third-party terminals.

•Much of our energy product line is delivered under our own Cenex® brand, the largest member-owned petroleum brand in North America.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3259) 7 years ago
Today..the 20th..gas is now $2.39 at M&H. Thanks Obama for sure?
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
It's interesting that in the second 2012 presidential debate Mitt Romney blamed President Obama's policies for causing high gas prices then [$4.80/gallon] compared to at the end of President George W. Bush's term in 2008 [1.80/gallon].

President Obama argued that the low prices in 2008 were because the U.S. economy was on the verge of collapse.

Gas prices are back down again...

What do you think? Does this guy's point of argument in this youtube video seem better today or worse?

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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10002) 7 years ago
$1.99 at Costco today in Billings.
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Posted by schmitzdj (+205) 7 years ago
179.9 in Owasso, OK
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9960) 7 years ago
“Bush Alaska locked into high gas prices for fuel delivered last summer and fall”
By Lisa Demer
ADN
January 1, 2015
http://www.adn.com/articl...r-and-fall
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
David Schott wrote:
Donald, Cenex Harvest States (CHS) owns an oil refinery in Laurel, Montana.

http://www.chsinc.com/ene...rial/fuels

• Our two refineries at Laurel, Mont., and McPherson, Kan., have a combined 140,000-barrels-per-day processing capacity, and we're investing significantly to increase that production to create an even more dependable supply of quality diesel fuels, gasoline and other products to meet our customers' growing needs.

• We move product to the marketplace through more than 2,500 miles of pipeline.

•...
•We offer our customers assistance in mitigating price ... through nearly ... a dozen of our own refined products terminals, and over 250 third-party terminals.

•Much of our energy product line is delivered under our own Cenex® brand, the largest member-owned petroleum brand in North America.



You make a good point, however, things that you aren't taking into consideration are:
* That they don't say where their pipelines are and don't say what other pipelines they use.
* Looking at the original 1987 pipeline map you show -- I know its not an up to date map -- the only time when fuel oil and Natural Gas pipelines get very close to each other is at the supply well or as they get close to the refinery.

Rarely will you see dissimilar pipelines following the same route; at least not generally within explosive distance from one another, except where close to the point of supply or the refinery.

Examples: 
See the two CONOCO and the one CENEX Fuel Oil pipelines coming from the north past Conrad and Great Falls down to Billings. All three are fuel oil and all are following along the same path within close proximity.

Then see the two pipelines going past Miles City, The W.B.I 12" and the CENEX 8" are both most likely Natural Gas rather than one being fuel oil and the other being gas, because they cross paths and follow the same paths too frequently for the sake of safety.

Yes, I do see that there is a 16" CENEX Raw Fuel Oil pipeline coming into Billings. 
I don't see anything yet that would convice me that the 8" product pipe heading past MC would be Fuel Oil rather than Natural Gas, when the refinery in Billings clearly deals with both.
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
It's called the Cenex Pipeline, Donald.



Perhaps this will convince you that it carries refined petroleum products such as diesel fuel and gasoline:

http://cenexpipeline.com/...tariff.pdf
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
David Schott wrote:
It's called the Cenex Pipeline, Donald.



Perhaps this will convince you that it carries refined petroleum products such as diesel fuel and gasoline:

http://cenexpipeline.com/...tariff.pdf


That is a bit more convincing. However it still is not definitive as petroleum products is a very broad category. Gasoline and Diesel are only two of those products.

Please look over the list of Products that are considered as being petroleum.
http://www.eia.gov/tools/...?id=41&t=6
Petroleum products and their relative share of total U.S. petroleum consumption in 2013:
Gasoline 46%
Heating Oil/Diesel Fuel 20%
Jet Fuel (Kerosene) 8%
Propane/Propylene 7%
NGL & LRG 6%
Still Gas 4%
Petrochemical Feedstocks 2%
Petroleum Coke 2%
Residual/Heavy Fuel Oil 2%
Asphalt and Road Oil 2%
Lubricants 1%
Miscellaneous Products/Special Naphthas 0.4%
Other Liquids 1%
Aviation Gasoline 0.1%
Waxes 0.04%
Kerosene 0.02%

Just in case you don't understand the NGL & LRG that I highlighted in bold.
http://www.eia.gov/petrol...061313.pdf
Natural Gas Liquids & Liquefied Refinery Gases
Meaning Ethane/Ethalene, Propane/Propylene, Butane/Isobutane/Isobutylene, and Pentanes Plus as well as Isopentane.

EDIT:
Something that tends to lead me to belive more that the CENEX pipeline past MC is more of a NGL or LPG gas line is the fact that the W.B.I. line is a Gas line. I can not find where they deal with fuel oils at all.

So for safety reasons if nothing else, the two lines crossing back and forth would generally be of the same type.
http://www.wbienergy.com/

[Edited by Donald Mullikin (1/10/2015 10:40:22 PM)]
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
I guess you didn't read the pdf document that was my second link.

Item 1 - DEFINITIONS:

"Petroleum Products" means gasoline, petroleum oil distillate, jet fuel, and/or kerosene.

Item 2 - SPECIFICATIONS:

Petroleum products accepted for transporation must meet the following minimum specifications:
Gasoline- must meet the requirements for gasoline as specified in ASTM D-4814.
Petroleum fuel oil distillate- must meet the requirements for distillate as specified in ASTM D-975.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14969) 7 years ago
Donald, if you crank the sharpener any harder to make your very fine point, your pencil with be pointless... or maybe in keeping with this discussion, unleaded.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
David Schott wrote:
I guess you didn't read the pdf document that was my second link.

Item 1 - DEFINITIONS:

"Petroleum Products" means gasoline, petroleum oil distillate, jet fuel, and/or kerosene.

Item 2 - SPECIFICATIONS:

Petroleum products accepted for transporation must meet the following minimum specifications:
Gasoline- must meet the requirements for gasoline as specified in ASTM D-4814.
Petroleum fuel oil distillate- must meet the requirements for distillate as specified in ASTM D-975.



Yes I did.

Have you read what I posted? Did you comprehend it? Somehow I doubt it.

Maybe you could explain where a document assigning tariffs is definitively exclusory of all other products falling into the same general category.  Alternatively, where it specifically lists that only certain products are transmitted via a specific pipeline, which in this case it fails to clearly identify.

To understand where I am coming from by saying “it fails to clearly identify”, maybe you should start with understanding what petroleum distillates are. Why do they separate Petroleum Distillates from Jet Fuel if Jet Fuel, Kerosene, Gasoline, Naphtha (White Gas/Colman Gas) are all petroleum oil distillates. Did you just catch that? petroleum distillates and then petroleum oil distillates. They are considering them as two separate products. One is a liquid that only remains a liquid while under high pressure, where the other remains a liquid with atmospheric pressure only provided it is contained and not allowed to evaporate.

Remember the list of items from my prior post? Those are all distillates of petroleum. To review what Petroleum products are. They are usually grouped into three categories: light distillates (LPG, gasoline, naphtha), middle distillates (kerosene, diesel), heavy distillates and residue (heavy fuel oil, lubricating oils, wax, asphalt).

If we were to assume that you are correctly interpreting the Document link you used, then after looking at other CENEX pipeline Tariff document links, we would have to conclude that CENEX does not transport NGL or LPG gas by pipeline at all. CENEX is mostly a LPG Company out this way and I am certain that is not what you are trying to say.

http://cenexpipeline.com/...01%200.pdf
http://cenexpipeline.com/...Tariff.pdf

Knowing the requirements of 29 CFR (Combined Federal Regulations) dealing with the handling & transportation instructions of hazardous materials and wastes. I am further convinced of this because each of the CENEX Tariff links above all contain the exact same Definitions and Specifications, dealing more with billing for as well as handling and transportation procedures rather than specifying what is allowed to be in the line. Until you get to the CENEX Crude Petroleum Oil pipeline or the Front Range Pipeline, then we find different Definitions and Specifications, but they still follow the billing, handling, and transportation instructions as above.

http://cenexpipeline.com/...tRange.pdf
http://cenexpipeline.com/...tRange.pdf  
 
My understanding from reading these is that these are mostly billing as well as safe handling and transportation instructions is due to the ASTM specifications used. ASTM the American Society for Testing and Materials is an international standards organization that develops and publishes voluntary consensus technical standards for a wide range of materials, products, systems, and services. Many Government agencies use those standards as specifications to meet safety protocols or regulations.

So lets quickly review. NGL or LPG is a light Petroleum Distillate, the documents you produced provide tariffs for petroleum products which include petroleum distillates and petroleum oil distillates.  

Please show me where the pipeline crossing near to MC is reserved specifically for Fuel grade petroleum oil distillates when it follows the same general path and frequently crosses back and forth across another NGL / LPG pipeline. We know its an 8" pipe. What is the pressure it is under? Low or high? Chances are being an 8" pipe it is a High Pressure pipe to keep liquified gases in a liquid form. If it were a 12" or a 16" I might suspect it to be a fuel oil type pipeline.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
Richard Bonine, Jr. wrote:
Donald, if you crank the sharpener any harder to make your very fine point, your pencil with be pointless... or maybe in keeping with this discussion, unleaded.


Do I need to start posting Pipeline 101?  LOL

[Edited by Donald Mullikin (1/11/2015 1:33:56 AM)]

[Edited by Donald Mullikin (1/11/2015 1:34:49 AM)]
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Posted by Glenna Bolton (+29) 7 years ago
Gas in some places around Denver is $1.83 Whoop Whoop! THANKS OBAMA!!
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 7 years ago
"At approximately 22:10 on Friday, September 20, [2002] a gasoline leak from an 8-inch pipeline operated by Cenex Pipeline (terminal) was discovered near Glendive, Montana. The release of approximately 1,000 barrels (160 m3) of unleaded gasoline flowed into Seven Mile Creek, and then downstream to its confluence with the Yellowstone River. Several trenches were constructed near the ruptured pipe for product collection points. As of September 25, 2002, a vacuum truck had recovered approximately 21,000 US gallons (79,000 L) of gasoline [and water] from the boomed locations and trenches."

Wikipedia.org: List of Pipeline Accidents in the United States in the 21st Century
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Posted by Dave Roberts (+1504) 7 years ago
$1.65 unl $2.50 #2 today
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
David Schott wrote:
"At approximately 22:10 on Friday, September 20, [2002] a gasoline leak from an 8-inch pipeline operated by Cenex Pipeline (terminal) was discovered near Glendive, Montana. The release of approximately 1,000 barrels (160 m3) of unleaded gasoline flowed into Seven Mile Creek, and then downstream to its confluence with the Yellowstone River. Several trenches were constructed near the ruptured pipe for product collection points. As of September 25, 2002, a vacuum truck had recovered approximately 21,000 US gallons (79,000 L) of gasoline [and water] from the boomed locations and trenches."

Wikipedia.org: List of Pipeline Accidents in the United States in the 21st Century


Thank you, finally something more definitive.

I find it interesting so much of the spilled gasoline went unrecovered.  Does anyone living in that area remember how long that pipe was leaking before the line operators discovered a leak existed?

Had it been the type of pipeline failure I am including a link for, I am sure that everyone within at least 30 miles would have known as soon as it happened. This one was nearly as noticeable as when Mount Saint Helens erupted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._explosion
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+141) 7 years ago
Richard Bonine, Jr. wrote:
Donald, if you crank the sharpener any harder to make your very fine point, your pencil with be pointless... or maybe in keeping with this discussion, unleaded.


Not that these prices will do anyone any good there.
Not far from my house in ZipCode 98499,
Reg UNLD $2.06 cash and $2.16 credit 
Mid-Grade $2.26 cash and $2.36 credit
With Washington State/Federal Tax combination being about $0.63 per gallon, that makes the actual cost of the Gasoline $1.43 - up to - $1.73 per gallon
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Posted by Oddjob (+183) 7 years ago
Glenna Bolton (and others) says:

"THANKS OBAMA!!"

Are your memories really so short?

Here's a trip down memory lane from the dreaded Fox News......

http://video.foxnews.com/...show-clips

If it makes you feel better, don't believe your lying ears.....
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Posted by MonteMontana (+271) 7 years ago
you know that the only thing that has gone down like this is computers. this gas price in the end is only hurt us in the end. sure gas has gone up but so has everything elso has too. gas really has only gone up the same as most things have in the the past few years. i see this has a problem that is going to bite us in the butt in the end. enjoy it while you can because like everything else it is going to level it self to where it should be. i have to admit i like the this happening but like all big companies things will even out.
thanks.
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Posted by Glenna Bolton (+29) 7 years ago
Gas is down to $1.51, however Tucker bought gas for $1.30 a gallon with our King Soopers discount. Whoop Whoop!!THANK YOU OBAMA!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14969) 7 years ago
Yup, drill, baby drill... and don't clean up the fukcing mess you're creating as you go. If the cost of cleanup was included, gas wouldn't so cheap. We don't inherit the earth, we borrow it from our children. The landscape conditions we leave behind, whether its energy production or Catus Plains' cow pasture, become the historic record of our stewardship.Who is going to clean up the mess?

[Edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (1/14/2015 7:19:32 AM)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14969) 7 years ago
Time to fire up the tanks to get demand back up.

http://www.bloombergview....-price-war
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Posted by Oddjob (+183) 7 years ago
Buzzkill!

Look at the upside, Richard....

Now you can dump the Prius for that sweet, tricked-out F-450 King Ranch you've had your eye on!
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Posted by Dave Roberts (+1504) 6 years ago
Regular Unleaded up to $1.83 but #2 diesel is down to $2.21
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9960) 6 years ago
Curtailing operations in the Brent field.

http://www.theguardian.co...?CMP=fb_gu
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Posted by David Schott (+17169) 6 years ago
Yesterday it was $2.299 for regular unleaded at a Crossroads area Chevron in Bellevue, WA.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10002) 6 years ago
$1.89 here in the Heights. Was $1.85 ($1.80 with Albertsons discount).
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9960) 6 years ago
Holding steady here at seven bucks & some change.
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