Islam a religion of peace?
Posted by Sam Colt (-142) 7 years ago
Just a few things to ponder on a warm summer evening....
In 732 AD the Muslim Army which was moving on Paris was defeated and turned back at Tours, France, by Charles Martell.
 
In 1571 AD the Muslim Army/ Navy was defeated by the Italians and Austrians as they tried to cross the Mediterranean to attack southern Europe in the Battle of Lepanto.
 
...in 1683 AD the Turkish Muslim Army, attacking Eastern Europe, was finally defeated in the Battle of Vienna by German and Polish Christian Armies.
 
...this crap has been going on for 1,400 years and half of these damn politicians don't even know it!!!  these battles had not been won we might be speaking Arabic and Christianity could be non - existent;
 
Judaism certainly would be... And let us not forget that Hitler was an admirer of Islam and that the Mufti of Jerusalem was Hitler's guest in Berlin and raised Bosnian Muslim  SS Divisions: the 13th and 21st Waffen SS Divisions who killed Jews, Russians, Gypsies, and any other "subhumans".
 
Reflecting A lot of Americans have become so insulated from reality that they imagine that America can suffer defeat without any inconvenience to themselves.
 
Pause a moment, reflect back. These events are actual events from history. They really happened!!!  Do you remember?

1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male.

2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by Muslim males.

3. In 1972 a Pan Am 747 was hijacked and eventually diverted to Cairo where a fuse was lit on final approach, it was blown up shortly after landing by Muslim males.

4. In 1973 a Pan Am 707 was destroyed in Rome, with 33 people killed, when it was attacked with grenades by Muslim males.

5. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by Muslim males.

6. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by Muslim males.

7. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by Muslim males.

8. In 1985, the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by Muslim males.

9. In 1985, TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by Muslim males.

10. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by Muslim males.

11. In 1993 , the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by Muslim males.

12. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by Muslim males.

13. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take down the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon  and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by Muslim males.

14. In 2002, the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against Muslim males.

15. In 2002, reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and beheaded by---you guessed it was a--- Muslim male.

16. In 2013, Boston Marathon Bombing 4 innocent people including a child killed, 264 injured by Muslim males.
No, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you?
 
So, to ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics intent on killing us, airport security will no longer be allowed to profile certain people. Absolutely No Profiling! They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women, little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old, Congressmen with metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe Foss, but leave Muslim Males, alone lest they be guilty of profiling.
 
Have the American people completely lost their Minds, or just their Power of Reason???

[This message has been edited by Sam Colt (7/18/2014)]
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Posted by David Schott (+16723) 7 years ago
"1. In 1968, Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by a Muslim male."

Sirhan Sirhan was apparently raised in a Christian family.

I didn't read anything beyond that.

I'm wondering if the next thing you'll post will be the "Bill Gates is going to send you money" email that has been floating around on the Internet almost as long as the spam you just posted.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+9995) 7 years ago
Copied from a chain e-mail providing one-sided/distorted "facts".
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 7 years ago
Shall we list all the atrocities conducted by Christians? The problem isn't the belief system. It's the people.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 7 years ago
One thing Sam's good at is cutting and pasting.

Now please research all the violence perpetrated in the name of the Christian god. You could start with the Crusades, work through the 30 Years War, the Inquisition, The Reformation, the Ku Klux Klan, Northern Ireland, Timothy McVeigh and round it up with Anders Breivik in 2011. Of course, that's just a small sample.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14884) 7 years ago
All three of the abrahamic religions have had their issues with violent behavior. Those who think the current version of teaparty Christianity is "peaceful" are fools. It's too bad more people don't realize that the Old Testament is largely copied from earlier Babylonian texts, particularly the first 5 books.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (7/18/2014)]
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 7 years ago
It is always sad to see a new dumbass post. Hopefully Sam is from Glendive, and not a local boy.
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Posted by rnsjbs (+110) 7 years ago
Perhaps, instead of reading and following blindly, you should open your eyes to the reality that Judaism, Islam and Christianity have the same foundations. Massacres and pillages have happened through the centuries in the name of Christianity, yet you choose to ignore those as they don't fall in line with your propaganda. The next time you copy and paste something, I suggest you fact check. This is garbage.
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Posted by atomicg (+1003) 7 years ago
Relating the acts of extremist sects to the greater population of any religious demographic is like saying all Christians are blah blah blah because the KKK did this or that horrible thing. Not all muslims are violent although the religion is subject to more war like interpretations simply due to the fact that Muhammad actively engaged in battle and commanded troops against the Meccans.

Some people use this to justify violence the same way Christians and Jews use their religions to justify various acts of war. This is why holy war is seen as religious right to some Muslims. Christians sometimes tend to cite the Old Testament when they need a vengeful god and the New Testament when they need compassion on their side.

It's all a lack of a greater intellectual process in my opinion. But I've never died so I don't know much about this religion stuff other than the knee jerk reactions on all sides kinda scare me.
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Posted by JWA (+34) 7 years ago
How many of you who commented have ever actually been behind the scenes in the Middle East? If not, you have no idea what you are talking about. And comparing Islam to Christianity in regard to acts of mass violence is ignorant. Muslims kill because they have a religion that they are taught will bless/reward them for killing infidels and dying for their cause. Christian doctrine has no such content, even though there are murderous fools who profess to be Christians. Completely different.

And those of you on this site who are obviously agnostic or atheist - what hope do you live for? Can you really look around at the beautiful and perfect variety of living things of this world and believe it happened by accident?

Some of you seem to post only so you and others can puff up your egos. It will never make you correct.
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Posted by JWA (+34) 7 years ago
Panelist responds with some inconvenient facts about Islam -
https://www.youtube.com/w...-vvoRwJSPc.
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Posted by Sam Colt (-142) 7 years ago
Charge: Copied and pasted without fact checking.
Plea: Guilty as charged.

Now which of the claims that Islam is not a religion of peace which was my point is specifically disputed beyond the statements “…one sided distorted facts…” “…a new dumbass post…” “This is garbage.”?

One, the murderer of Bobby Kennedy, Sirhan Sirhan. David Schott disputes that he was a Muslim. That prompted me to read about Sirhan Sirhan on Wikipedia and it is true that Sirhan Sirhan although born into an Arabic family in the middle east and lifetime Jew hater etc. was not in fact a Muslim and attended several Christian churches before joining an occult organization over a year before carrying out the murder he is infamous for. I stand corrected.

That got me to thinking maybe I’ve been mislead by chain emails and right wing propaganda. Maybe Christians are just as bad or worse than Muslims when it comes to violent acts in the name of religion. If one goes back to the Crusades, no doubt it’s tit for tat. Both sides committed unprovoked and provoked war and atrocities on each other. What about now?

I searched Wikipedia for “List of Christian terrorist attacks”
Result: The page “List of Christian terrorist attacks” does not exist.

So, I next searched “List of Islamic terrorist attacks”
Result: I got this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...st_attacks

I know you really weren’t surprised were you? It’s a pretty dammed long list going back to just 1990. I suggest you browse through it before equating Christian violence of antiquity to modern Islamic violence. Christendom modernized it’s view of violence. Islam is stuck in the dark ages and is intent on dragging us back with it.
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Posted by dlsmith (+233) 7 years ago
Thank you I saw this adn this woman on the panel salys it all the way it is!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14884) 7 years ago
And those of you on this site who are obviously agnostic or atheist - what hope do you live for? Can you really look around at the beautiful and perfect variety of living things of this world and believe it happened by accident?


I live for the here and now. I live for the enjoyment of the beauty of the people and landscape by which I am surrounded. There is real freedom in not having to be bound by some ancient set of rules to attempt obtaining entrance to some celestial state that likely doesn't exist.

There is more evidence of the beauty around us happening by "accident" than there is that it was purposefully "create" by some deity. And there is the nasty little problem of proving it was YOUR deity that brought it all into existence.

I also want to challenge the notion that a religion is peaceful simply because they don't use gunpowder propelled lead to control their own and evangelize the neighborhood. The psychological methods used by Christianity in the USA to control people are really just as violent. You lose or willingly give up a lot of your personal freedom and life. True peace comes when you are no longer a slave to such psychological warfare.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+9995) 7 years ago
Sam Colt wrote:
I searched Wikipedia for “List of Christian terrorist attacks”
Result: The page “List of Christian terrorist attacks” does not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._terrorism
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Posted by atomicg (+1003) 7 years ago
Compared to the methodology of other religions Islam has a more inherent tendency for holy war due to the history and nature of their messiah as a battle commander. They are consistently taught that killing is part of their religion. It is all true and the panelist was absolutely correct in her concern for the trend from a security point of view but I still hesitate to openly claim that all of Islam can be grouped and assessed for risk as one conglomerate. I feel the same way about Christianity and many other religions.

One common denominator in a religion doesn't mean everyone in every place adopts common methods. Islam is a difficult one to assess though and I don't have the practical experience or education to be the guy to make any statements claiming which groups are more likely to be a risk. I do however know that many factions exist within Islam and grouping all Muslims is as silly as grouping all Christians.

The tendency to justify violence with religious ideology is present in many religions. The trait runs strong in certain Islamic factions as well as other religions. Perhaps it is stronger in Islam but it is still more of the same from the pov of a third party who lays no claim to being on any particular side of a theological debate. I think everyone got a bit distracted from the actual question of how peaceful can Islam really be from a fundamental perspective when entire groups of millions and billions started getting lumped together like brothers in arms. I apologize if I contributed.
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 7 years ago
It's just a few bad apples......Right?

To name a few; the Muslim Brotherhood systematically exterminating Coptic Christians in North Africa. Boko Haram killing or enslaving anybody who will not submit to Sharia Law. Africa and the Middle East are falling and the the Taliban are just marking time. SE Asia won't be far behind.

Then there's this......

http://news.yahoo.com/con...iness.html

While the "good apples" play deaf, dumb and blind.

You see what your choices are in the link and it's coming to a theater near you, sooner than you think.
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Posted by Erin Timrawi (+50) 7 years ago
Please tell me,JWA, about your time spent "behind the scenes" in the Middle East that have made you an authority on the subject.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 7 years ago
atomicg wrote:
I apologize if I contributed.

You should never apologize when you post your own thoughts on a subject here, atomic dude. You should only apologize when you post some chain mail crapola as if it was your own original thoughts.

I happen to agree with a lot you have to say, but the bottom line is that religion has little to do with the identified originator (e.g., Jesus, Mohammed) and more what their followers have morphed it into what they want it to be.

The Shia/Sunni division that has caused the current warfare in Iraq cannot be attributed to Mohammed anymore than the Protestant/Catholic division would make Jesus responsible for, hmmmm, how many deaths during the Reformation?

We would be on the verge of civil war in this country as well, given the current collapse in Congress. Fortunately, the Tea Partiers have limited fighting capability due to their wheel chairs, oxygen tanks, etc. And fortunately for us, Country Kitchen Buffet does not open until 7 am. anymore (way past the Tea Party attack strategy).
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+9995) 7 years ago
[deleted - o/t]
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Posted by Sam Colt (-142) 7 years ago
muhammad. Slave Owner, Pedophile, Sadist, War Monger. Mass Murderer. Promoted Violent Martyrdom and Conquest.


Jesus Christ. Celibate. Peaceful. Teacher. Preached to “love one’s enemies,” “turn the other cheek” . He NEVER PROMOTED OR ENGAGED IN VIOLENCE.
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Posted by Erin Timrawi (+50) 7 years ago
In general, I am not a fan of religion. What I am less a fan of, however, is when people promote their own religion over another, using fear-mongering tactics, incorrect facts and divine justification from their respective holy books as well as cherry picking quotes from other religious texts to prove their point without bothering to provide any context.

Want a biblical example of this? Take for example, Matthew 10:34-35 in which Jesus says : "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

At face value, it appears to promote gross violence and disruption. Yet any researcher worth his salt will seek the context, both literary and historical, to better understand the scripture. I did, and the result? I learned that these lines are usually interpreted to be a figurative sword severing the familial bonds between non believers and believers and not the actual taking up of weapons and causing war.

Most would agree that many bible verses, when quoted out of context, have been used through the centuries to promote and condone racism, murder, violence, slavery, anti-Semitism, etc, etc.

I’m willing to bet that those who quote Leviticus 20:13 ’s negative stance on homosexuality often sport tattoos (19:28) and consume shellfish (11:12) , two other things the book forbids.

Atomicg, while I agree with many of your statements, you state that Muslims “are consistently taught that killing is part of their religion. It is all true…” You follow this statement by saying “Islam is a difficult one to assess though and I don't have the practical experience or education...” It goes without saying that you made an awfully rich blanket statement making out all followers of Islam as being steeped in an atmosphere of violence, followed by saying you lack the experience and education on the subject to make further deductions.

I come now to the panelist in the posted video, Brigitte Gabriel, aka Hanah Kahwagi Tudor, aka Rachael, aka Nour Saman. This woman has been quoted as saying that a Muslim radical is simply one who prays five times a day. I’m sure this outlook pads her “statistics.” As for her credentials? I can find nothing beyond a one year business course from a YWCA, yet this “terrorism analyst” can’t even correctly parcel together the various factions behind the civil war in her home country of Lebanon. Her treatment of Saba Ahmed was appalling and contradicts her claim to work with peaceful Muslims as well as her questioning where the peaceful Muslims were and why they aren’t speaking out. Gabriel, they’re speaking directly to you. Here’s a video I offer up as a rebuttal: http://www.youtube.com/wa...jRI2AsF3h0

A few other points:

Are you aware that Islam recognizes Jesus as a Prophet?

Also, please let me know when the TSA was forbidden to profile Muslim males. When you do, please let me know when the TSA developed a system of telepathically ascertaining who is and is not a Muslim male.

In conclusion, Sam Colt, what is the intended end game of your diatribe? Do you wish for an inquisition, a jihad, if you will, against all Muslims? Because that’s what it certainly sounds like.
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+620) 7 years ago
Thank you, Erin. I find your rebuttal perfectly reasoned and the clip you've referenced, brilliant.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 7 years ago
Erin +1000000!!!!!

My blond American cousin is Muslim. Perhaps she should wear a sign of some sort.
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Posted by JWA (+34) 7 years ago
So many comments from people who have apparently never been in the Middle East and seen what goes on in the Islamic world. When all you have is the internet and maybe some friends who embrace the watered down Americanized version of Islam, then your points are invalid. You are living in a dream world.

Would you accept that anyone could be a true expert about Miles City and Miles Citians without having lived there? Of course not.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3195) 7 years ago
Thank you Erin Timrawi for the excellent post and the interesting You Tube reference. I have found the author, Reza Aslan, to be very interesting and if you have the time, Watch his Book TV Review at the following website:

http://www.booktv.org/Pro...Aslan.aspx

His books: Zealot: "The Life and Times of Jesus of Nazareth", "No god but God, The Origins and Evolution of Islam" and "Beyond Fundamentalism, Confronting Religious Extremism in the Age of Globalization". Excellent reading. AND..."I Am Malala" is wonderful as is the young Author who wrote the book. Understanding is comforting.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
Well, we're little less than a week away from the 100th anniversary of one of the largest examples of violence and bloodshed committed by nominally christian nations, an orgy of destruction that was sadly NOT the capstone to more than a millennium of conflict on the European continent, driven in no small part by the creeds confessed by the various belligerents, so I wouldn't pat myself upon the back TOO hard there Mr. Colt.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (7/21/2014)]
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Posted by Erin Timrawi (+50) 7 years ago
JWA, again I ask you: what was your experience in the Middle East that has made you an expert? For your information, I have been to the Middle East. I have been welcomed into the homes of conservative followers of Islam where I was treated with nothing but the highest respect. I have family who lives in the region.

Edited to add: I know of Reza Aslan and his "Zealot" book but haven't had the chance to read it yet. I quite enjoyed the infamous interview of him on Fox News.

[This message has been edited by Erin Timrawi (7/21/2014)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
http://danielsilliman.blo...erica.html

Sam Hose was burned to death in Georgia on a Sunday.

First he was chained to a pine tree at a place called Old Troutman Field, outside the city of Newnan, which is about 40 miles southwest of Atlanta. Then his ears were cut off. Then he was stabbed several times, blood spurting to cheers from the gathered crowd. Then his fingers were cut off, severed at the joints.


Sam Hose's death was reported throughout the country.
His genitals were also cut off.

Then he was set on fire.

"Now he was twisting around the tree," wrote one man who was there. "Now biting at the bark of the pine, jumping and springing and twisting and fighting for every inch of his life."

The local paper reported that Hose tried to pull himself up out of the fire with his fingerless hands. The chain that held him snapped, and he fell to the ground. His body was again hacked at with knives, but he wasn't dead, so Sam Hose was pushed back into the fire.

Some more kerosene was poured on.

He died after about 20 minutes. It was 2:50 p.m. on April 23, 1899. It was a Sunday.

Sam Hose was one of 27 people lynched in Georgia that year. His lynching was one of the 458 that occurred in the state between the end of Reconstruction and 1930.

His last words, as reported by a local paper at the time, were, "Oh, my God. Oh, Jesus!" because this was America, a Christian country.


Was Terry ever a 'Sundown Town' Mr. Colt? Do you know what that term means?
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3195) 7 years ago
Erin, If you could take the time to watch the interview with Reza Aslan on Book TV...you would find him so interesting. Sound logic. I missed the interview that you speak of.
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Posted by David Schott (+16723) 7 years ago
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3195) 7 years ago
Funny how they do interviews and have obviously not read the book. The book is very good read. He is brilliant. Thank you, David.
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3669) 7 years ago
Bridgier, Joe W, Jeri, Richard, Wendy, Betty, Hal, Amorette, Larry,

If you are missing from this list I'm sorry

I leave it to you. I haven't been a resident of Montana for almost three years now and I find my that my time on social media is better spent elsewhere. I stay upset and lose enough sleep without trying to engage in social intercourse with linear thinking cretins.

I enjoyed the brief but noticeable renaissance centered around 9th and Main during my time in MC. I think fondly of the salon, the coffee shop and the wonderful music, conversations and friendships that grew out of my fifteen years there. I am, however, happy to be back in the urban swirl where people interact on a regular basis and The Airport Inn would not be considered fine dining.

Sam, dear boy, I will miss you most of all. I still think that you are a narrow minded twat but that makes my condescending attitude towards you feel justified.

With that, I bid you adieu.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 7 years ago
Finger steaks are nasty.

There, I said it.
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 7 years ago
"Sam Hose was burned to death in Georgia on a Sunday."

A horrific act indeed, but I fail to see the relevance of a 115 year old lynching of a man accused of murder, rape and mayhem to anything other than an illogical attempt to present some sort of moral equivalency argument.

Since you want to go down this path, I suggest you research "honor killings", which are "justified" under Sharia Law. Many of them equally horrific, and an everyday occurrence in the Muslim world.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
Emmett Till wasn't killed 115 years ago.

He was probably killed in your lifetime.

We're not that far removed from that now.

that's my point.
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 7 years ago
How does that relate to murder that is sanctioned under a system of belief and as common as dirt?

That's my point.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
How's that blood atonement thing working out there down in Zion?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14884) 7 years ago
I don't think we should be too hard on Sam. After all he is just a colt and not a fully grown stud like say... Gunnar.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+147) 7 years ago
by Sam Colt
I searched Wikipedia for “List of Christian terrorist attacks”
Result: The page “List of Christian terrorist attacks” does not exist.


Maybe you need to learn how to format your search criteria better. I had no problem finding the following at the very site you claim no such page exists. EDIT: I see after I posted this that MilesCity.com Webmaster also found this same page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/...terrorism

Other links you may wish to digest:
http://www.prosebeforeho...-america/
http://www.truthbeknown....ctims.htm
http://www.religioustole...ek34d.htm


~ I claim no specific allegiance or agreement with anything stated by the listed sites, I post the links simply to show there are dissenting opinions/information to that of Sam Colt. ~ Don

[This message has been edited by Donald Mullikin (7/23/2014)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
The Ustashe, for example, had some very charming thoughts on freedom on conscience and race mixing.
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Posted by Oddjob (+190) 7 years ago
Since the discussion has degraded into the moral equivalency or moral relativity game, how about including Atheist terrorism and murder in the 20th Century? Nobody gets a free ride now.

Communists........100 Million Dead
Nazis............. 25 Million Dead
non-Affiliated....??? Million Dead

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._Communism

Those numbers are probably low-balled by 25%-50% since its Wikipedia and nobody actually counted skulls except maybe, Pol Pot.


I don't know what the body count for Christ and Allah is, but I doubt it would be substantially higher. The difference being what took the Christians and Muslims 2 Millennia to accomplish, the Atheists did in roughly 50-60 years.

I guess they could teach the murdering religious fanatics a thing or two about efficiency.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 7 years ago
The impulse to purge the 'other' is a human universal, religion is merely the excuse that's most often used. If our current boogeyman wasn't the scary muslin (mooslin? musrim? whatever) we'd probably have historical experts such as Mr. Colt and anonymous_coward telling us how Guatemalans or Hondurans were culturally inferior and the greatest danger to Western Civilization since Hitler.

If you interpret everything as a clash of civilizations, then you're always in danger of extinction, regardless of the reality of that danger. We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud, right?

anyways, that's always been my point, from the beginning of this thread.
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