Posted by (+1910) 7 years ago
Oy, vey. End of the United States Constitution as I knew it.
posted by Dr Mac,
For example, see Jefferson's "Establishing a Federal Republic
posted by Bridgier,
So when the wiccans want to start a city council meeting by giving praise to the earth mother or whatnot, you're totally cool with that?
I would find that hard to believe.
So, whomever is in the majority gets to determine what the established religion is?
Dr Mac wrote:Well, no where in the constitution does it state there should be a separation of government and religion. If that is what one wants, consider moving to India or Singapore, where such separation is mandated.
Wikipedia wrote:"Separation of church and state" (sometimes "wall of separation between church and state") is a phrase used by Thomas Jefferson and others expressing an understanding of the intent and function of the Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. The phrase has since been repeatedly used by the Supreme Court of the United States.
The First Amendment to the United States Constitution provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..." and Article VI specifies that "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States." The modern concept of a wholly secular government is sometimes credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, but the phrase "separation of church and state" in this context is generally traced to a January 1, 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson, addressed to the Danbury Baptist Association in Connecticut, and published in a Massachusetts newspaper.
Echoing the language of the founder of the first Baptist church in America, Roger Williams — who had written in 1644 of "[A] hedge or wall of separation between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world" — Jefferson wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."
Jefferson's metaphor of a wall of separation has been cited repeatedly by the U.S. Supreme Court. In Reynolds v. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson's comments "may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment." In Everson v. Board of Education (1947), Justice Hugo Black wrote: "In the words of Thomas Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect a wall of separation between church and state."
posted by Oddjob,
Donald, you are wasting the keyboarding on some of those here. They believe the Constitution, and their presence, provides them with Freedom FROM religion and Freedom FROM speech. The only way they would ever agree with you is, to agree with them or shut up.
Roanoke County’s Board of Supervisors may be headed toward another discussion of prayer following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling handed down Monday. The board dealt with the matter in 2012, eventually passing a nonsectarian prayer policy that Supervisor Al Bedrosian is ready to strike from the books.
“The freedom of religion doesn’t mean that every religion has to be heard,” said Bedrosian, who added that he is concerned about groups such as Wiccans and Satanists. “If we allow everything … where do you draw the line?”
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court says prayers that open town council meetings do not violate the Constitution even if they routinely stress Christianity.
The court said in 5-4 decision Monday that the content of the prayers is not critical as long as officials make a good-faith effort at inclusion.
posted by Bridgier,
Strange that Donald doesn't seem interested in engaging any of my arguments.
also posted by Bridgier,
Forcing people to pray with you because you can is a dick move, and it cheapens whatever it is you believe in. Convince me that Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior by the fruits of your life, not by forcing me to sit through your prayers before I can participate in the peoples business.
Please remember, I will frequently ignore intellectual discourse or debates when my opponents clearly enter unarmed.
posted by Bridgier,
Look, these cases end up being argued the same way, that this particular sectarian expression is offered in a merely ceremonial way, that it doesn't really mean anything, or that the word 'GOD' is merely a placeholder for whatever the hearer may or may not believe, etc, etc, etc.
Which makes the people foisting the prayers in the first place LIARS, because OF COURSE they believe that the words that they're saying MEAN something.
If you can find it, you may find the essay on civil religion contained in Yoder's Priestly Kingdom to be illuminating: https://www.goodreads.co...y_Kingdom
Be honest in your beliefs, and let others be honest in theirs. Don't be a prick about it, because that just pisses off the Baby Jesus.
Where is it shown that in the case of TOWN OF GREECE, NEW YORK v. GALLOWAY ET AL, that anyone was forced to pray? Galloway ET AL were upset that they had to listen to what more often than not ended up being Christian in nature. That was not the fault of the City of Greece, that was the fault of the various clergy turning down invitations to provide prayer or an invocation at the beginning of each of the meetings.
I reveled in the fact that their beliefs might be different from mine as that provided proof that what I was fighting for was just and right.
Huffington Post wrote:Just three days after the Supreme Court ruled that sectarian legislative prayer was constitutional in Greece v. Galloway, a man in Deerfield Beach, Florida, requested to open a session of the town council or the Florida State Senate with a Satanic prayer, reports 12 News.
posted by Bridgier,
You are one really confused dude, that's all I can say.
posted by Joe Whalen,
Do you suppose that this sort of reception by militant Christians, even in the U.S. Senate chamber, might have something to do with declined invitations?
posted by Amorette Allison,
I didn't know Lennon was involved in the USSR, beyond singing about it.
Don Lennon wrote:Please remember, I will frequently ignore intellectual discourse or debates when my opponents clearly enter unarmed.
Random Task wrote:I agree. They should string John Roberts up in the public square for his ruling on Obamacare.....