Start making and selling these ...



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eB...1155543936

Oh, we all need to get in on the ground floor on that one!

Actually, I'm serious. From that 1 listing - 20 offered, 14 sold @ $148 each w/ 24 people watching it.

20 x 148 = $2,960 for something anyone with some basic shop skills could make for not much cost or effort.

But this guy has already sold 14.That means the market is already saturated.I don`t do snake-bay but isn`t it possible that the 14 sold is just advertising? As seen on tv.Order now.Hurry.Supplies are limited.

You'd have to understand the reason why people need computer chassis like that. GPUs for crypto mining can't be used in a normal computer case, because the entire thing overheats. Each GPU is like a blow dryer pumping out heat. The entire setup needs to be in an open air one like that - which while being very simple - is in very high demand right now - because it's not exactly something you can easily find or buy at the corner store.

Here's another, made by someone else, for $169.97 each. This listing has sold 3 out of 7 w/ 16 people watching.

7 x 169.97 = $1,189.79

Again, seems like a cheap and easy shop project.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/D...1032507803

This is the type of stuff people are using without a chassis like that. Milk crates, while functional, aren't super ideal.

BTW, the "milk crate" rig shown above with 3 decent GPUs, by my guestimate could currently earn about $750-1,500 a month crypto hashing ... so obviously some cash would be available for the operator to splurge a bit on future chassis investment to something better than a couple of milk crates ... thus my original post and point.

Larry:
Are GPU's pretty standardized size wise? What would a setup like the one in the milk crate cost. I am pretty intrigued by crypto coin mining concept.

I was wondering just what it was.I was curious as when I clicked on your link I saw another one advertised for I think $26.99.I do not remember any major differences but I did not know what to look for either as I did not know what it was.It does seem that there is money to be made with a minimum investment of time and money if they sell at over $100.

Richard Bonine, Jr. wrote:

Are GPU's pretty standardized size wise? What would a setup like the one in the milk crate cost. I am pretty intrigued by crypto coin mining concept.

The GPUs are all about the same size. They're about a foot long and 1.5" wide. AMD R9 280X GPUs are currently about $500 each. (They've doubled in price recently.) You need a motherboard with PCI Express 3.0 16x slots. However many slots are in the motherboard is the max number of GPUs you can install. The power supply needs to be about 150W + (300W * number of GPUs). The CPU and RAM on the motherboard are relatively unimportant, so just a cheap energy efficient CPU with a couple GB of ram.

So for example, a basic system ...

Motherboard w/ 3 PCI Express 3.0 16x slots ($120):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6813157460

CPU ($70):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6819116950

RAM 2GB ($30):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6820139873

Then, the specific power supply depends upon how many GPUs ...

500W power supply / 1 GPU ($45):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6817438016

750W power supply / 2 GPUs ($80):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6817438007

1050W power supply / 3 GPUs ($100):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6817121070

Then the GPU ... the R9 280X is a good balance of energy efficiency, price, and processing power. There are a bunch of different brands selling the same type of card. Some are better than others. Here's a cheap one. I don't know how good it is, but it is probably fine ...

GPU ($490):
http://www.newegg.com/Pro...6814202046

PCI Express 3.0 16x Riser Cable - 1 for each GPU ($15 each):
http://www.amazon.com/PCI...B008BZBFTG

So basically, if I've done my math correct, given the above:

- 1 GPU system would cost about $770
- 2 GPU system would cost about $1310
- 3 GPU system would cost about $1820

Perhaps it can be done cheaper. Those are just example components I picked. I think that's pretty accurate though.

Then you'll need some sort of hard drive w/ perhaps 64GB of space (scavenge one from an old computer, or buy a new one for $20, or whatever), a mouse, keyboard, and monitor (just borrow those from another computer - they aren't really required after it is configured, since you can remote in through the LAN using Remote Desktop), and find a copy of Windows 7 or 8 (put it on a bootable USB drive to install).

Out of the box, each of those systems should do (approximately):

- 1 GPU - 700 khash/s
- 2 GPU - 1400 khash/s
- 3 GPU - 2100 khash/s

And may be able to be overclocked higher assuming you can keep them cool enough. You'll probably need a big fan to assist w/ cooling the entire thing - and then back to the original posts above, you'll also need a chassis to hold it. Either a milk crate or something like one of those.

http://coinwarz.com has a calculator to figure out profitability. The type of hashing would be Scrypt, not SHA-256.

Also, one thing to realize is that the estimates at CoinWarz are based on the current price of BTC, which fluctuates, and is currently low. If in the future the price goes up, then whatever you've held from mining would go up as well. The price of BTC when actually converting to USD is what's ultimately accurate, not the estimates.

I have a few questions that is the simplest way of asking many questions.McWebmaster-Do you mine bitcoins? If you do why? If you do not mine bitcoins why? With an investment as you outlined above without the added expense and risk of knocking over a dairy for the crates,is there money to be made and if so how much.It would seem that the more equipment the more bitcoins.Kind of a joke here but is the NSA mining bitcoins as they have the overwhelming equipment.It seems that bitcoins come from nowhere by solving a problem to which there is no problem and therefor there is no progress,no work being done,no tangible work product.Like there is something created out of thin air as the FRB and other banks create.Can bitcoins be created out of bitcoins that do not exist as is done with the dollar and other currencies by banks?Example creating interest on money(dollars) that are not even there?And if this isn`t happening what is to stop it.Ok,what is to stop the US government from cornering the market on bitcoins,they have the equipment to do it and then devalue the bitcoin.From what little I know the bitcoin could upset some currencies and the US government confiscated a bunch of bitcoins in the silk road deal.Ok,so this was a big couple of questions that may take a college course to answer.I am listening.

Larry, Thank you for all of the information.

NDJ: You are asking complex questions that would literally take pages to explain. I'll try to cover some of it.

In regards to the question of if I mined Bitcoin (BTC), I did as a
as a hobby a while back - but it's not possible to do it profitably as a "little guy" any more due to the increase in difficulty and the rise of BTC mining data centers like those run by http://cex.io. If someone wanted to seriously mine BTC for profit, you would have to buy expensive ASIC devices from places like this http://butterflylabs.com or somewhere else - which cost thousands (potentially upon thousands) of dollars – to which you may never see a return on the investment due to the massive difficulty and amount of hashing already occurring on the network.

The above applies to Bitcoin though. To back up a bit, there are two major types of crypto currencies – those based on Bitcoin ("SHA-256") and those based on Litecoin ("Scrypt"). The derivatives from those two are basically grouped together as "Alt Coins". I currently mine Scrypt-based alt coins as a hobby, somewhat as an investment, and also because I write software that I need to test on the hardware I have. I really don't have a super great system, basically just an open box with two GPUs (an AMD 7950, and an AMD R9 280X).

The process for effectively mining as a "little guy" is this. You get a system with at least 1 suitable AMD GPU, join a Scrypt-based mining pool (like http://multipool.us), configure it to send the results of mining to an exchange (like http://cryptsy.com), and then convert the alt coins to BTC or LTC (or if you feel adventurous, hold them to see if they go up – the different alt coins are like wild stock market tickers – they go up, they go down – eventually sell them to the BTC or LTC market) ... and eventually, convert them all to BTC and send them to a wallet that does USD conversion (like http://coinbase.com) ... and then when you feel like "selling" the BTC ... transfer into your bank account at the current USD exchange rate.

That's the system that exists for mining alt coins right now. A year from now, it may be different or may not even be profitable anymore. Who knows - but right now it is profitable.

In regards to questions about the networks, and the NSA, and such ... that would take an immense amount of time to respond to. The quick answer is, no, not the NSA nor the US Government nor any entity can corner the market. The networks are basically giant transactional logs, chained together in blocks. Miners sign each block by solving complex mathematical problems and are rewarded for the effort. Basically, miners run each network – and they're compensated by the protocol for securing and keeping it secure. The transactional details of each network are public and are monitored by everyone else in the network to make sure no one entity can take control of it.

It's more complex than that, but that's my super simple explanation. It would literally take pages upon pages to go into every aspect though.

This guy attempted to explain the Bitcoin network a few years ago, and did a fairly good job. It may be a bit difficult to watch, but it applies to pretty much all of the current crypto currencies.

You answered what I wanted to know.I guess the question maybe could have been Bitcoin mining.Is it for me?From your explanation I think it is not.I just wonder where all of this mathematical computation is going.Example;Microsoft writes a program that doesn`t really work and puts it out on the market and the millions and millions of people develop it for them by feedback.They pay for the privilege of doing this.Kind of like making a mouse pay to tell you how to put cheese on the trap and having the mouse happy to do it.Is all of this computing doing anything,developing anything?It could either be way cool or way very not cool if it is.

Well, back in the 1990's, desktop computers and screen savers were quite popular. I quickly figured out instead of attempting to sell screen savers myself, it was more profitable to provide tools that allowed others to create and sell their own screen savers themselves - give them a toolkit and leave it up to them to determine if they were successful or not. That endeavor ended up pretty well, with many happy customers.

Likewise, from the top post in this thread, someone else selling a tool to people who want to mine on their own (rather than attempting to mine crypto currencies themselves - at least for the purpose of that ad). Sell one chassis a day, at a $100 profit, ends up a few thousand dollars a month. Seems like an easy way to earn some extra cash (at least for the moment) and have some happy customers - which is what I was pointing out.

In regards to mining, for computer geeks with a bit of knowledge and interest - it's not that hard to currently earn a few hundred dollars a month per GPU mining Scrypt-based alt coins. And also, realize, that $300 may be worth x2 or x10 or whatever in the future. The crypto currencies are deflationary, and as such, are designed to go up in value, which they have demonstrated in the past - and there's no reason to believe that won't continue - as long as they remain in favor.

In regards to Microsoft, that seems to be a harsh and pessimistic view. Microsoft was indeed brutal in taking on it's major corporate adversaries in early years, but it's mellowed and is actually not that bad of a company any more. It releases a lot of its technologies as open source now days, although I don't know if that should be a deciding factor, but in general - fairly benign.

One thing Microsoft has always done, is when they're set on something - they don't give up - even if the early releases were crap - they work on it, and work on it, and work on it - until they get it right. And contrary to some peoples beliefs, they're doing quite well because of that - it's only necessary to look at their financials.

Happy customers are the best type.Especially if you are a prostitute and enjoy your work.Win/win.I have an idea McWeb.Do you have ears.

And what is that?

No way to pm here.Idea?Something that comes out of nothing kind of like a bitcoin.

Okey-dokey.

Nice emoticons ect. but I am saying that I did not want to discuss my idea in public and you seem to have knowledge in the field and I do not want to put my idea in to public domain.

Well, you can PM by clicking my name, and then the Email button ... the site does do that.

Did such.

This a great overview for how brief it is.

FYI, from the original eBay link I posted - apparently all 20 sold.

atomicg: Good find.

I was watching a Ron Paul interview,I don`t remember even what it was about and I really was not listening.At the end the interview the reporter asked about bitcoin and I perked a bit.Ron Paul said something on the order-my words or paraphrase not his,that if the bitcoin were legit,once again my words and they are not the right words here,that the governments would get in it or not allow it or something.What he said kind of mirrored what I had been thinking,is especially the US government going to let this currency circulate without finding a way to tax it 8 times over?2nd thought.Is it going to be too late for governments to stop bitcoin and the government`s stranglehold control of currency going to be upended?I think it is a risky investment because the goverments will try to shut it down and it can be tracked.Animals need food to live.Governments need money to live and they are always really really hungry.

How exactly is the US Government going to "get in it" or "not allow it" in any sort of meaningful way? Taxes? We are already required to pay taxes. No change there. Regulation? Frankly, places that act as exchanges and/or "banks" need some regulation so they don't rip people off. I don't see the problem. So, not sure what the worry is. The technology is global and ubiquitous. It doesn't care one iota about the US as a single area on this planet. It will exist as long as the people of the world want it to exist - not whether some particular government wants it to or not.

The US government could declare use of bitcoin illegal.Same as any other currency and could forbid US banks from doing business in bitcoin and forbid them from doing business with banks and countrys and nations who do business using bitcoin.It would be called sanctions against a terrorist money organization trying to disrupt the world monetary system.Could be done by executive order and I hear Obama has a new pen with plenty of ink.Pretty simple.Stroke of the pen,law of the land.

That's not going to happen. Billions of dollars are already flowing everywhere around the US economy in this area right now.

I accidently ran across something an hour ago.There was a hearing,I think in Illinois where whoever was in charge of the hearing was hearing testimony where cyber currency is unregulated and is like the wild wild west and law needs to be brought to the land.Years ago when I was in California,my friend`s kids recycled aluminum cans.Then came a requirement for a social security number required to sell even small amounts of cans even from children in grade school so the kids quit recycling cans.The US government and banks do not like people who deal in cash or transactions that are difficult to tax.Bitcoin can be tracked.I just think Bitcoin`s days before being regulated are numbered.Kind of like the banks and the US and other governments saying "BITCOIN" "YEAH YOU" "KNOW YOUR PLACE" They may allow it however as Bitcoin can be easily tracked and therefore easily taxed.You pay your neighbor $300 cash to cut down that tree in your front yard and haul it off is hard to track.If they can,the US government will tax that cash transaction and tax the bbq you had after the job was done.If the US government can track millions or billions of personal cell phone calls I would bet dollars to donuts they have a copy of every Bitcoin transaction.

NDJ wrote:

Years ago when I was in California,my friend`s kids recycled aluminum cans.Then came a requirement for a social security number required to sell even small amounts of cans even from children in grade school so the kids quit recycling cans.

I currently reside in California, and that's definitely not the case. A CRV of 5 cents is collected at stores for each can sold. Anyone can show up and turn them back in for redemption. There are automated machines where you can feed the cans back in one at a time if you want, which then print a receipt that can be turned in for cash at the checkout counter. At other places you just give them the cans, and they give you cash. They certainly don't ask your social security number. They give you a receipt, and you sign it to say you've been paid. They don't ask who you are. You could sign X if you wanted. That's it.

NDJ wrote:

If the US government can track millions or billions of personal cell phone calls I would bet dollars to donuts they have a copy of every Bitcoin transaction.

Everyone has access to a copy of every Bitcoin transaction. See http://blockchain.info. If any of those are tied to a transaction in the real world, then the government has the ability to match it up with a real person. It just requires some old fashioned police work, or NSA type data collecting, or whatever they do.

It takes a lot of work to be anonymous, and ironically, the act of attempting it draws the attention of the government. For example, it has been speculated the feds run perhaps 1/2 the nodes on the Tor network, and use them to pay attention to what people are doing through it.

In regards to taxation, well everyone is supposed to pay their taxes. Income is taxable, no matter where it comes from, so don't see how it matters.

I consider Ron Paul my primary source of legitimate economic information.

So let me get this right. The man who wants us to return to the gold standard would also be in favor of the bitcoin? No inconsistency there at all.

From what I remember Ron Paul said that if,and these are my words not his,that if bitcoin amounts to anything the government will get a piece of it.I was going to mention I think the government at some point will use or is using bitcoin because it can be tracked.Think silk road. Think Tor.Bitcoin could be the perfect currency in the government`s eyes.They know where it is and who has it so they can take it.They could also declare certain bitcoins as having no value.If Iran were currently on the bitcoin system the US government could say your money is no good Iran.Pretty cool.Stroke of the pen-Law of the land.

As for the cans in california.I did not see that part of your post.All I know is that the people I knew told me a social security number was required and that is why the kids were no longer recycling.Things may have changed.This was probably in the 90s.I know if you sell much of scrap anything you have to provide a drivers license or a social security number even here in miles city.I am sure if I was told wrong,someone here will take the time to research it and tell me I am wrong.Waiting.

Ars Technica wrote:

A senator from West Virginia has called for a “ban” on Bitcoin—without apparently understanding that doing so would be nearly impossible.

http://arstechnica.com/te...n-bitcoin/