Public Nuisance Ordanance
Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
Why is this ordanance not enforced? There are several homes in the city that should be cleaned up especially the home by the golf course..
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Posted by redmondroughneck (+73) 8 years ago
That house is owned by a friend and classmate of the mayor. Besides drive around the corner and check out the used car lot at the mayor's house.
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Posted by harding (+44) 8 years ago
go by 800 block of yellowstone lol lol
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Posted by mikeh (+302) 8 years ago
In fairness, the brown house/curiosity shoppe next to the golf course has been a mess since before the current mayor returned to office.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
A few weeks ago, a hoarder in Pennsylvania, angry that he had been given an order to clean up his property, showed up at a meeting of town board and murdered two people. One of the reasons officials hesitate on cases like these is they often involve people who have difficulty with reality and weapons.
Seriously. Would you risk your life to clean up some dump? The issue has to be weighed by authorities because it is a legitimate concern. Yes, I'd like to see the public nuisance ordinance enforced but not if someone gets shot over it.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17333) 8 years ago
I agree with Amorette. Lets keep Miles Schitty Miles Schitty.
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
So we shouldn't enforce a law because what might happen?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
Umm.. the law isn't enforced because the person ultimately responsible for seeing that the law is enforced, is also one of the offenders.

Gunnar: That was awesome.
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Posted by Forsyth Mike (+475) 8 years ago
One man's trash is another man's treasure. We have several "junk yards" here in town full of old cars that look like piles of crap to some people, but to the owner they are "projects."

There's also the notion that "It's my property, I can do (or not do) what I want with it. Besides, it's not hurting you so leave me alone." That's a really hard one to get around with a lot of people.

It's a tough problem that just about every town has.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Like pigeons, civilization has been dealing with the problem every since cities were invented and no simple solution has yet presented itself. If you have one, let the world know.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
An easy solution is to allow taller fences, which will block those folks possessing a tendency to be aggressively snoopy from viewing that which they may find offensive, since they can't seem to keep their noses out of other peoples business. Yes, this will mean that stricter building codes will be needed and permits required to insure that unsafe fences are not built by the hoarders.
Oh wait, forget that whole idea.. it won't matter anyway.. The snoops will just go aerial to violate the privacy of others under the guise of it being a public benefit that they do so. Possibly using Google Earth views to do their dirty work, unless they are part of the Government, then they will spend billions of Tax-Payer $$ to build drones and Spy-Satellites so they will have up to the second video feeds to support their Violations of Multiple Rights at the same time.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
Oh Donald,and you sounded almost sane in one of your recent posts.

WOLVERINES!!!!
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Posted by harding (+44) 8 years ago
again drive by the 800 block of yellowstone.............
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
The solution is to enforce the city ordinance
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17333) 8 years ago
The solution is to enforce the city ordinance


But you people don't want to pay for anything. Which is why you elected Butch.

Someone help me here....why do Miles Citians want municipal services, but vote in politicians who run on platforms against funding public services?

For an ex-Miles Citian who currently lives in Helena where we continue to re-elect people who want too many government services, this is a head scratcher to me.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Oh Donald, and you sounded almost sane in one of your recent posts.


LOL Bridgier, Are you telling me that you might happen to be one of those people who would rather gripe about something seen on the Television; taking it to the point of trying to get it banned, than to simply change the channel or better yet shut the stupid thing off? Changing the channel or turning it off is so much like the Christian belief of turning the other cheek. If what you see simply offends you, then you should simply look at something else. But there are those who will as my last paragraph will elude to, decide what something means or what they think is best for society and will push their agenda into everyone's face regardless of how harmless what they wish to control is.

Folks have to understand that there is a very fine line between our unalienable Right to life, liberty, and a pursuit of happiness, and actions that society takes which infringe on a person's personal liberties, simply because not everyone is of the same opinion as to how life should be lived, what liberty actually is, and what might actually make someone happy. Such a loss of liberty, simply because someone is overly narrow or closed minded.

What if someone should petition, lobby, and get an ordinance passed, that to avoid houses being of a nuisance color, that any bright color is defined as a nuisance. Making it so that only beige or light colors such as light green or light blue colors are deemed acceptable. Then anyone painting their homes in a color that is not considered as being acceptable would be fined or "Code Enforced" into compliance.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 8 years ago
Donald Mullikin wrote:
What if someone should petition, lobby, and get an ordinance passed, that to avoid houses being of a nuisance color, that any bright color is defined as a nuisance. Making it so that only beige or light colors such as light green or light blue colors are deemed acceptable. Then anyone painting their homes in a color that is not considered as being acceptable would be fined or "Code Enforced" into compliance.

That already exists, in communities virtually everywhere in the US. :/
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
I'm not talking about the color of a house! This is about homes within the city limits that have trash and junk in their yards.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
If MY house's value was being reduced because I lived next to a hoarder, I might take a dim view of his 'freedom'.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I really think bridgier was trying to get at:


Sane:

An easy solution is to allow taller fences, which will block those folks possessing a tendency to be aggressively snoopy from viewing that which they may find offensive, since they can't seem to keep their noses out of other peoples business. Yes, this will mean that stricter building codes will be needed and permits required to insure that unsafe fences are not built by the hoarders.


Bat poop crazy:

Oh wait, forget that whole idea.. it won't matter anyway.. The snoops will just go aerial to violate the privacy of others under the guise of it being a public benefit that they do so. Possibly using Google Earth views to do their dirty work, unless they are part of the Government, then they will spend billions of Tax-Payer $$ to build drones and Spy-Satellites so they will have up to the second video feeds to support their Violations of Multiple Rights at the same time.



If I had to guess, I'd say Donald is a Libertarian. I think electing a Libertarian is the only responsible choice we can make in the next presidential election. We need to stop accepting a steady diet of candidates served up by the two parties and the media, even if it means the funding for school buses is directed to preparation for a battle with alien invaders. Americans can't be divided into two groups - for instance, I want to purchase guns from friends without undergoing background checks, I want high volume magazines (and surface to air missiles and bazookas), I think Edward Snowden deserves a heroes welcome back to the US, I support capital punishment, I support marriage equality, I don't support our presence in Middle Eastern conflicts, I support a simpler path to citizenship, and I'm pro-choice (because I'm anti-coat hanger). I can't join a conversation without being an asshole liberal or an asshole conservative and I'm not either, I'm a Kelleher Parliamentarian and as such, one-one millionth of parliament should represent me, but it starts by standing together and electing someone with a borderline personality.

Thank you.

P.S. In all that, there is no room for racist dippoops who contribute nothing to the betterment of our nation. Wait, I take it back, someone needs to be the aliens in the military training exercises. Live rounds only!
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
LOL at
If I had to guess, I'd say Donald is a Libertarian.

Sorry, you would be guessing wrong. I fully believe the way Alexander Hamilton did when he wrote many -many years ago while writing to educate the voting populace of the State of New York as to what the proposed Constitution would do and what it would not do for our fledgling nation. He stated very eloquently in his Federalist Paper Issue #9 as I recall, about the evils that could be inflected upon society by Domestic Faction (Their way of saying Political Parties in that era).

After having been approached by a few of political parties looking to finance my run for a local office I learned firsthand that if you accept any of their financial assistance, you have to spout their party platitudes without hesitation, even if you know in your heart that what is being required is completely backward or wrong. That was enough to convince me that Mr. Hamilton was 100% correct.

Therefore, I now consider myself a freethinker, and I will not align myself with any evil political party.
Besides, the Republicans and the Democrats have so convoluted our election and Electoral College systems, that there is little hope that any third party would ever stand a chance.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Lucym wrote:
I'm not talking about the color of a house! This is about homes within the city limits that have trash and junk in their yards..


I would conclude that you are talking more about what should rightfully be a part of a public health ordinance should it become a health hazard as it devolves into a breeding grounds for rodents and other vermin.

Public Nuisance ordinances and those who support them; are what I was poking fun at, as they are usually a disreputable abuse of authority.

Some folks view 100 year old furniture as being a priceless antique, where others will view it simply as junk. That difference in perspective alone is at the heart of my post. When enough of a like mind or a "domestic faction" decide to violate the rights and liberties as well as ignoring the perception of others, they generally hide their disparagements under the guise of a Public Nuisance Ordinance.

[This message has been edited by Donald Mullikin (8/26/2013)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
Therefore, I now consider myself a freethinker,

So.... a libertarian hipster then?
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
By Bridgier:
So.... a libertarian hipster then?


I guess you missed where I said that I do not align myself with evil political parties. Just as how Hamilton believed that if they are a domestic faction they are evil, I feel that includes any political party as by their very nature, they are evil.

I vote not for a party ideal or party representative, but for a specific Candidate, and the Parties rarely put the person I would select to be in the running.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
Dude, that's a lot of words to just say 'yes'

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (8/27/2013)]
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
By Bridgier:
Dude, that's a lot of words to just say 'yes'

If you understood what I said to mean Yes..

Either:
* English is not a primary language for you.
* You have a terminal case of misunderstanding; lacking the mental ability to comprehend it.
* You simply chose to befuddle that which you know is correct and do not want to agree with.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
Donald... what is the one thing that hipsters hate?


Other hipsters.
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Posted by redmondroughneck (+73) 8 years ago
I think some of you are taking this a little to far with regards to the constitution. What is in front of Shipley's home is not a priceless antiques, to anyone, it is simply junk. Just junk, junk, and more junk.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Posted by Bridgier:
Donald... what is the one thing that hipsters hate?

Other hipsters.


As our discussion was not focused on trendy fashions or trendy ultra-urban lifestyles, it is clear that only you know what you intend a hipster to be. So I might suggest you learn to share whatever it is you have been smoking.

Posted by redmondroughneck:
I think some of you are taking this a little to far with regards to the constitution. What is in front of Shipley's home is not a priceless antiques, to anyone, it is simply junk. Just junk, junk, and more junk.


I disagree.
The Constitution is there to protect its legal Citizens from an overzealous Government, and since our form of Government is a Republican (Representative type not meaning the political party) form of Government designed to protect individuals from the ill effects of collectivism, then the only person or people who can really say how Shipley perceives what is in the front yard, is Shipley or are the Shipley's.
 Are you Shipley?
 Are you one of the Shipley's that reside at that residence?
 Have you had a conversation with Shipley, in which Shipley stated emphatically that what is in the yard is junk?

If you cannot answer affirmatively to any of those, then you are simply stating your perception & personal opinions; not Shipley's. I cannot in good conscience view your statement as a factual one and neither should any elected or appointed representative.

When those in our Government yield to the effects of collectivism, then our society has fallen into the depths and evil traps of Socialism!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
designed to protect individuals from the ill effects of collectivism


Any bets on how many of the founding fathers used the term 'collectivism'?
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Posted by Garrett Stein (+26) 8 years ago
The evils of socialism! Like public libraries, police departments, city jobs, and fire. Those departments. Cause man are those things evil. Throwing around socialism like it's the second coming of the red scare is ridiculous, there are plenty of socialist things about our society that we've long ago integrated in. I'd rather not see any of those things moved to a capitalist system, just like I'm sure most people would rather not see the collective mess of someone unwilling or incapable of deciding that something is junk or at least working to organize and properly store said items.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Posted by Garrett Stein:
I'm sure most people would rather not see the collective mess of someone unwilling or incapable of deciding that something is junk or at least working to organize and properly store said items.


Yet, those people would prefer to attempt to violate a person's rights rather than simply look elsewhere.

Next thing will be people trying to regulate what a person thinks or how they will be required/allowed to perceive things..

Oh wait.. that is already being done; that is exactly what Public Nuisance Ordinances, Codes, and Laws do. A minority decides what is proper or fits their beliefs, opinions, or personal preferences and then they enforce their preferences on the majority.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 8 years ago
Some recent photos of one of the "public nuisance" properties:


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr


Public Nuisance? by dave_mcmt, on Flickr
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
The neighbors to this home shouldn't have to put up with this.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 8 years ago
The debris that has spilled into the street should certainly be cleared from the public right of way.

And when I was a boy, Officer King would never have tolerated a car being parked on the wrong side of the street like that stretch limo is.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
Lucy, why do you hate America? If you force this one man to clean up his yard, collectivism and gay marriage cannot be far behind.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17333) 8 years ago
Oh wait.. that is already being done; that is exactly what Public Nuisance Ordinances, Codes, and Laws do. A minority decides what is proper or fits their beliefs, opinions, or personal preferences and then they enforce their preferences on the majority.


Wrong. The "minority" which you refer to are the elected officials, that the majority may vote out of office if they do not like the ordinances, codes, and laws that they are passing.

There is a great vast area out there where there is no zoning where Mr. Shipley or anyone else who wants to leave their crap strewn everywhere are free to move to. It is called "the country". Of course, many in the country don't like to see crap, so they form subdivisions and HOAs and the like.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
I see a great episode of Hoarders in Mr. Shipley's future.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Any guesses what it looks like inside?
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Posted by redmondroughneck (+73) 8 years ago
I take everything back. Shipley's yard adds a lot of character to Miles City. In fact his place should be marked as a tourist stop by everyone who stops by the Chamber of Commerce.
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
more like an embarassment to this city...!!!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
Every village has its idiots... at least we know where are are...

At some point soon, the glyphosate-laden cacti in the area will start exploding and will reduce his pile of ruble so that the black mold being rained upon us from the chem-trails above can digest it and it will all go away. No worries.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
It really is spectacular.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
How about a refreshingly cool picture on such a hot day...


Admit it you feel better now, don't you?

So the girls and I were thinking, that since the readers digest deal didn't work out for us, maybe we could get the Hoarders to come to town. Perhaps they would feel so bad about the living conditions of Mr. Shipley they would clean up his place and throw in a new pool as remuneration for the residents of the city having to look at this mess. What do you think?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
Perhaps some enterprising citizens could "help" Shipley clean up his yard by quietly hauling the junk away one piece at a time in the dark of night. It'd be slow going but he might not notice.
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Posted by poisonspaghetti (+281) 8 years ago
It's so sad. I was in that house years ago when it was owned by an Albertson's manager and it was a lovely home. What a waste.
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Posted by 007 (+161) 8 years ago
Way to go Richard, I had a rant but not now!!!!
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Look at the pile of rocks, second from the right, on the white truck topper. Just take some time to contemplate them. What do you think is occurring in the mind of the person who organized them?
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Posted by redmondroughneck (+73) 8 years ago
Maybe Shipley's place could be added to the National Historic Register and available for federal grants?
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+797) 8 years ago
Wendy, I can see someone getting shot for hauling away something in the dark. Aren't hoarders very emotional about parting with their "crap"?

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth Emilsson (8/31/2013)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
Not if they're asleep.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
"Maybe Shipley's place could be added to the National Historic Register and available for federal grants."

Ship will see this, actually GET a grant, and use it to buy more crap.
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Posted by K.Duffy (+1807) 8 years ago
Buck said:
What do you think is occurring in the mind of the person who organized them?


I'm no expert, but it appears to be one of those landmarks the sheep herders used to make.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 8 years ago
Buck Showalter wrote:
"What do you think is occurring in the mind of the person who organized them?"

"A place for everything, and everything in its place."
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Posted by David Schott:
Some recent photos of one of the "public nuisance" properties:


Those pictures confirm what I suspected. They confirm that a Health Hazard is now present, as it has devolved into a breeding ground for rodents, insects, and other vermin. It also appears with how so much debris has encroached within five feet of the home itself, that it is now an extreme fire and safety hazard.

Does either Custer County or the City have Health and Fire Ordinances/Municipal Codes?

If so, contact your local Health and Fire Departments and register a complaint with them, as it appears to be a public safety issue at present, and should be an easy problem for either of them to handle.

You've read what I have had to say about Public Nuisance Ordinances and I would suspect that the City Council is being advised by their Legal Department, that such look good on paper but can take years and thousands of Tax Payer Dollars to mitigate. Public Health and Safety Ordinances on the other hand might only take a few hundred dollars to get the desired results.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
Posted by Gunnar Emilsson:
Wrong. The "minority" which you refer to are the elected officials, that the majority may vote out of office if they do not like the ordinances, codes, and laws that they are passing.:


Not wanting to get into a Math debate here; I will ask you to contemplate the makeup of the political structure deciding political outcomes.
Even if, say, the whole of a particular domestic faction votes for a particular issue, and only a few or none of the other collectives concur, then it is still very much a possibility that a minority has passed a law regulating the Majority.

Here is something to help you figure it out.
Total number of Registered Voters in the area is?
What percent call themselves Libertarians?
What percent call themselves Greens?
What percent call themselves Republicans?
What percent call themselves Democrats?
What percent call themselves Independents?
What percent are so fed up with the political system today, that they refuse to vote, or figure that as the sytem is so corrupt that their vote will make no difference?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
An individual has to sign a complaint against the property owner. This means YOUR name on the dotted line. Getting someone to sign the complaint is often the problem. If you are a neighbor, you must complain. I'm not sure someone from say, the other side of town, can make a valid complaint. It needs looking into.
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
is there anyway to forward these pictures and comments to them
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1671) 8 years ago
Does no one remember former Mayor Whalen's attempts to clean up said property?

Here is a post from David Schott in a former thread.

From the Star article about this "trustee's sale":

"In October 2011, Shipley sued former Mayor Joe Whalen for violating his right to due process in public nuisance proceedings against him. The suit was unsuccessful."


There is a long, long history here. It has been discussed at length on mc.com. If you are interested in details, you can search old threads.
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 8 years ago
Forward to whom? The property owner? The City? Someone who doesn't know about this long, sad tale?

If you want to sign a complaint, you can go down to City Hall and sign a complaint.
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Posted by CWard (+60) 8 years ago
might want to remember sneaking in at night to haul things away .............is stealing
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 8 years ago
At the very least, Shipley is guilty of stealing property value from his neighbors. Time to bring this fiasco to an end. Or fire every public official that refuses to do anything about it.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Are you willing to sign the complaint?
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 8 years ago
If I owned property anywhere near that mess, I would sign it in a heartbeat.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 8 years ago
Ditto.
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Posted by JJC (+77) 8 years ago
Collections of junk or trash can also be considered a public nuisance. Do not assume that someone else has reported an abandoned home or collection of junk. Please contact the Public Safety Committee. They oversee policies for the Police Department, Fire Department, and Health. They cover any matters that concern the Public Safety of the City of Miles City.

Public Safety Committee
Sue Galbraith 234-9288 home, 853-1657 cell, email [email protected] Ward I
Jerry Partridge 234-0321 home Ward II
John Hollowell 234-9326 home [email protected] Ward III
Dwayne Andrews Chairperson 234-3852 home, 852-0020 cell, email [email protected] Ward IV

[This message has been edited by JJC (9/4/2013)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
I can't believe that Jesus died to give us America just so you collectivist bastards could pick on this poor man.
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Posted by lucym (+29) 8 years ago
what about his poor neighbors???
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
They just don't understand feedom.
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