Pine Hills Inmates
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
There is apparently a new program which enables local businesses to hire inmates from Pine Hills under some subsidy from the federal government. The inmates are on their own to get to their job (Of which Ace is a participant) where they change into a uniform. Until today, the sheriff had not been informed. There were more students out on work release today then in the facility!!! The public hasn't been informed, discussions held etc. I have no idea if there is any restriction according to their sentencing crimes or not. We have youth murderers and sex offenders incarcerated there. I want to rehabilitate them also. Does anyone else remember the young nine year old girl who lived in a trailer court near Pine Hills and was raped at knife point by an offender? Can we look to having more information and input on such a program before it is foisted on the unsuspecting public?
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Posted by JB (+112) 8 years ago
[This message has been edited by JB (6/28/2013)]
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Posted by TLJ (+6) 8 years ago
You might want to get your facts straight before you get so upset about it.
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Posted by ShaneF (+87) 8 years ago
Curious. Prisons-for-profit has been showing up a lot in my web wanderings as of late. I'd like to read more about this program. Can you cite a reliable reference?
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 8 years ago
Key word - apparently. I have to doubt it's happening.
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
TLJ, I would love to have more facts. I posted this to see if anyone else had information on this program. You apparently do. Please elucidate. Is there in fact such a program, what are the parameters? Thanking you in advance for any information you can provide.
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Posted by Sarrie (+78) 8 years ago
My husband previously worked at Pine Hills (he quit a couple of months ago), they are definitely doing this. There was a kid who worked at Gallaghers as well. He thinks the couselors there might have driven them to their jobs, but he's not sure.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1606) 8 years ago
Everybody that you meet, including that person looking back at you from inside the mirror has done something wrong in the past.

Luckily we are not forced to wear scarlet letters on our bodies to proclaim to everyone we meet what it is we have done. We are not defined by what we have done wrong in the past. Thank GOD or Allah or Carl Sagan, or whoever.

I should think that you would be thrilled to have people investing themselves in earning a living, instead of sitting in a room staring at the walls or learning how to open a safe.

I worked at a restaurant for a few years. I might have taken your order. You would be astounded to learn what I have done in my past.....or would you? If I knew about all of the evil that lurks in your heart I don't think I would want you waiting on me....maybe if you were wearing a black and white striped shirt?

FH
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Posted by prb (+65) 8 years ago
Mrs.M, All you need to do is call Pinehills and talk to someone and get the facts stright.There are no murders,or sex offenders working at local the business.If some of the youth don't get a chance to work or get some life skills,where will they end up, at MSP in Deerlodge and we as tax payers will support them.
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
I did not say I was against rehabilitation, or learning job skills. Some of the respondents are seeking to put other meanings to my initial concern. Should law enforcement and the public have been notified of this program, given the parameters, and have a chance to ask questions?
The idea of a youth prison facility is that these young men will benefit from intervention and direction. Great, just don't leave the community out in the dark!!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
What would you want to know? Would you like the kids to wear yellow stars showing that they made mistakes in their past so you could point them out and castigate them? Has it occurred to you that they are taking the kids who are the best-behaved and are giving them a chance to change their lives?

Condemning every kid at Pine Hills as a rapist or axe murderer is ridiculous. Most of those kids have had terrible upbringings and need to learn how to function in society, how to earn a living and work hard at a job, how to be responsible.

I am 100% behind work release programs. I am also 100% behind not believing every gruesome rumor that passes by. I am also 100% certain that there are numerous precautions taken and every effort is being made to insure the public safety.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Oh wait . . I guess not.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3243) 8 years ago
Good when the kids are trusted to work outside the walls...and, I am sure they have to make at least minimum wage at their jobs. So much better than the pittance they would make inside. How nice that their wages are probably credited to an account that will be available to them when they get out.

I don't think they need to wear anything that sets them apart...but...it sounds like such a progressive program, it would be interesting to hear the details of it.
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Posted by tmc (+12) 8 years ago
Amorette this is the most racist and insulting thing I have read in a long time. HOW DARE YOU???? Are jewish people felons and sex offenders? How ignorant! The inmates at Pine Hills are not there for cutting Sunday School. They, unlike Jewish people,have committed crimes against the community, they have failed all previous diversions and treatments. These offenders are literally the worst of the worst in the state.It is the last stop before Deer Lodge. The Jewish people did NOTHING but be born in their race and they suffered horribly far worse than any kid out there ever has.
Of course none of these idiots even bothered to read the original post where it clearly said the writer was in support of rehabilitation. The real issue here is public safety. Why isnt at the very least local law enforcement notified of their presence in the community.
There are sex offenders out there and maybe sticking your heads in the sand and pretending they just need hugs and candy isn't worth the risk to those of us who have children. It is foolish to wait until something happens and yet another person in our community is hurt by an offender. The reason they got the fence in the first place was because one of those innocent well behaved misunderstood youth went into a trailer and raped a little girl. The family's one request in the court settlement was for Pine Hills to put up a fence.
Let's get them treatment, let's try rehabilitation and job skills, but let's not abandon prudence and safety in the meantime. If there is a violent offender or a sex offender in the program at the very least let law enforcement know they are in the community, where they are, and what ours they are outside of the fence. That is hardly Nazi like.
Its not the Holiday Inn, people dont check into Pine Hills because they want to be there. Since they got that new fence I am not aware of any escapes. But back in the day there were loads of escapes and many people in this community lost cars, property, were threatened, and even violated physically and sexually. So to insure that the community is safe is only a reasonable request. And I'm sorry the best behaved sex offender, or assaultive inmate isn't someone I want to gamble my property and children's safety with.
I recommend you google Wolves, Sheep, and Sheepdogs. There is an essay written by Lt Colonel Grossman that is enlightening (well if you want it to be but I have low expectations based on the general foolishness that plagues this forum). When I read some of these posts I hear alot of bleating. So go ahead BAAA away and hopefully it's you and not some innocent who suffers when something goes wrong.
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Posted by tmc (+12) 8 years ago
Some of us had relatives who died in concentration camps. If this is the caliber of person employed at the Miles City Star I am committed to never buying another edition of that paper in my life. Ever.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
She didn't say they were six-sided stars, psycho.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
Glad to see that "tmc" is maintaining a rigorous exercise program jumping to conclusions.

Wow, just wow.
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Posted by billiam79 (+21) 8 years ago
Ow, my head.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
My guess is tmc had never read the Star to begin with.

Ah, well. I still think it was a terrible overreaction, sounding as if it the poor kids should be marked in some way (yes, I know about the Holocaust.) so as to warn us against them. If the program has been existing for some time and there has been no problem, why the panic now?

Why not contact Pine Hills, find out how it works, and once the facts are known, then react appropriately.

My father used to work at Pine Hills and brought kids to our house all the time when I was a child. I remember many of those boys fondly.
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Posted by Al Borden (+256) 8 years ago
"They,unlike Jewish people committed crimes....

Can`t call that statement racist.Not even. Nope.

Sorry if I didn`t get it word for wordperfect.

What color should the stars be? Shouldn`t the stars be given after a successful day on the job?
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Posted by cooch (+32) 8 years ago
The release program has been around for many years!The young boys that are working around town and on the pine hills grounds will be getting out in the very near future!Have worked with them myself and was real good kids!They even got a laugh when we got stopped by the DOT!lol!They also earned good money to go home with!
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I think it's Bridgier trolling.
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Posted by tmc (+12) 8 years ago
No idea who Bridger is. I usually dont participate in these forums and you have demonstrated why. Dont address the points make lame jokes, allegations about my mental state (by the way on behalf of those people whose loved ones suffers from mental illness thanks for using the term psycho it's very progressive of you). Ignore the issues, provide old anecdotes. I dont care. Like I said I can only hope it is you who are victimized and not some innocent. Oh and I read the Miles City Star from April 1997 until today.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17321) 8 years ago
I always like to brag that I got a perfect score in the ACT category of English way back in 1979 my senior year of high school at CCDHS, because the majority of my fellow Miles Citians have the reading comprehension skills of a deformed newt.

Glad to see my boast holds up, time after time, on these forums.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
First, it's the Jewish race and now you're dragging the mentally ill into it?

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (6/29/2013)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
Finally, a thread worth reading.
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
Amorette, would you please highlight my words where I suggested that the students be labeled or made to wear identifying clothing? I sure missed it both when I wrote it and reread it. (I think it was your private rant meant to demean my concerns by portraying me as a jack booted abuser of miscreants.)

Perhaps some enterprising reporter at the Miles City Star will recognize the public's desire for more information.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
Kudos to PHS and anyone in Miles City willing to participate in this program. If I understand correctly, THESE ARE KIDS CLOSE TO BEING RELEASED ANYWAY! What is the big deal!

If you want a real paranoid thrill, might I suggest checking into the SVOR so you'll really have something to worry about.
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Posted by luvlife (+285) 8 years ago
Mrs M---this is why I don't post on here, along with many others. If you have a concern and want to discuss it, these people that live on MC.Com tear it apart, make fun of you, making it bigger and better then it started out to be.

I read your post and there was nothing wrong in your concerns and just wanting answers. Most of these people do not have children as we do and might not understand where our concerns come from.

I get so frustrated when you are trying to ask a "real" and "concerning" question and these "commie's" tear you apart.

Sorry, Mrs M
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
luvlife wrote:
Mrs M---this is why I don't post on here, along with many others. If you have a concern and want to discuss it, these people that live on MC.Com tear it apart, make fun of you, making it bigger and better then it started out to be.

I read your post and there was nothing wrong in your concerns and just wanting answers. Most of these people do not have children as we do and might not understand where our concerns come from.

I get so frustrated when you are trying to ask a "real" and "concerning" question and these "commie's" tear you apart.


Except that you DID post here, only to remind us that you don't post here, because others, who post here frequently, might take issue with what you are posting here. (Wendy, sorry about the comma festival, it was fun) ). I don't understand the "frequency of posting" argument as though posting less somehow indicates some advanced level of intelligence. And then you go on with an aire of superiority to say that having children is a perquisite to heightening ones level of understanding and concern for public safety. REALLY???

IMO, Mrs. M's foible was that in her original post, she used declarative sentence structure rather than interrogative sentence structure, if she was genuinely curious about the apparent release program. I don't doubt the sincerity of her concern. She did, however, go from "apparently" to "declarative" rather abruptly:

Mrs M wrote:
There is apparently a new program which enables local businesses to hire inmates from Pine Hills under some subsidy from the federal government. The inmates are on their own to get to their job (Of which Ace is a participant) where they change into a uniform. Until today, the sheriff had not been informed. There were more students out on work release today then in the facility!!! The public hasn't been informed, discussions held etc. I have no idea if there is any restriction according to their sentencing crimes or not. We have youth murderers and sex offenders incarcerated there. I want to rehabilitate them also. Does anyone else remember the young nine year old girl who lived in a trailer court near Pine Hills and was raped at knife point by an offender? Can we look to having more information and input on such a program before it is foisted on the unsuspecting public?


You don't usually get answers to "questions" by making declarative statements about the number of students released or what and when the sheriff was informed. (Hint: hotmail doesn't exist anymore, maybe they didn't get the memo ). Public safety is a genuine concern. Boys from that institution have been known to steal cars, (which cause other boys to have to ride in the back of a stock truck with the horses to get to school...true story ) or much worse.

The truth is these work-release programs, where apparently "more students out on work release today then in the facility!!!" (exclamatory ) are the results of voting for the party in charge of the state legislature. Continual voting for smaller government usually increases risk to public safety and some, not really ready for release, will likely end up in the program. It is a cost of business issue. Change the way you vote and these concerns will likely be abated. At the state level, you're getting the government you voted for.

Amorette's foible was that she didn't choose green stars. I am sure that some astute "commie" would have gone off on a rant about how that offends the "Seussian" relatives of the Snetches and threaten to never again eat green eggs and ham.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
My PERSONAL opinions are irrelevant to my employment. Please keep that in mind at all time.

I still think there is no need for the general public to be consulted on work release, since it is a program that has been in existence as long as Pine Hills as been in existence. It is neither a new program nor a program to panic over.
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Posted by luvlife (+285) 8 years ago
Ammorette---thank you for your "adult" response and I agree with you.

Richard B---response was wayyy long---did not read it---you must be very bored
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Awww, good old mc.com is back to normal. Nice rants. Typical lack of comprehension. I love it.
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Posted by Dave Roberts (+1501) 8 years ago
Maybe put the kids to work on the pigeon problem?

X-birds = x-furlough? High count get's a weekend home?

[This message has been edited by Dave Roberts (6/30/2013)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
luvlife wrote:
Richard B---response was wayyy long---did not read it---you must be very bored


That's too bad, as I was brillent.
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Posted by Barb Holcomb (+406) 8 years ago
@ Richard: brilliant?

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Posted by Merry DeAnda (+1849) 8 years ago
BTW: Congratulations Barb Holcomb on your promotion. Wonderful news!

HOOAH
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
Barb,
Good spelling correction, I wasn't going to bite. (even though his parsing of my post was correct in some aspects)

My heart felt congratulations on your promotion. You do Miles City and Montana proud. I know first hand of the care and compassion you extend to our wounded soldiers and their families!! Many do not know that you were in contact with the Bogner family and did everything you could to gain information, check on Chris, and expedite the communication that was so direly needed when he was first wounded. My thanks to you again, Jan
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
Stupid autocorrect. Grr...
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17321) 8 years ago
Wouldn't it be nice
to get 'long with me neighbors?
But they make it very clear
they got no room for ravers
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Posted by Marcia Entzel (+12) 8 years ago
In July,1961,we lived on a farm in Yellowstone Valley.The "nationals", I believe they were called,had finished thinning our sugar beets and had moved on to another state.My father-in-law then called Mr.Wolhowe to see if we could hire the boys.My husband and I made one or two trips to the state school to pick them up.I'm not sure what the temperatures were that month,just recall they were brutally hot,as were the nights.The boys didn't last a week--it was just too hot and they weren't used to the back-breaking labor,especially using the "short-handled" hoes.
Only chimed in here to let you know how long the practice has been in effect.
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 8 years ago
I remember growing up on Haynes Ave and those boys were always running away from the school. Even remember one little girl getting raped not 4 blocks from my parents house. So I would think that it would be only fair to let the public know what's going on with them. Not all of them are violent, but none of them are in there because of their good behavior.
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Posted by Sunny (+378) 8 years ago
The boys EARN the right to be off campus on a work detail, and they know the consequences of misbehavior or any attempt to escape. They are supervised either by a staffer or by the employer who has knowingly accepted that responsibility. I have been privileged to observe some of the classes and review some of the materials used in those sessions that are designed to help the kids "get their heads screwed on right." It is my opinion that the entire populace, including you and me, could benefit from those exercises.

As to informing the sheriff or the public: Why? The sheriff has more important things to do than to "baby-sit" a program that already has supervisory elements in place. The experience on work detail is to be a learning tool for the student. If the public knows their clerk or food server or manual laborer is an inmate, a fair share of them will ostracize the youth. Your distrust is obvious to the youth and a positive learning tool has just turned negative!

The truly incorrigible that you fear never leave the fence. The whole program has changed at Pine Hills since the days of numerous escapes, not just the fence.
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 8 years ago
Thank you for your answer. Who was watching the youth in a Pine Hills uniform running down Haynes on the 28th?
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Posted by tmc (+12) 8 years ago
http://billingsgazette.co...663b4.html

Somebody from here really needs to contact the Gazette as there appears to be a number of factual errors with their reporting. Will someone let them know that the DOC, the same one that runs Pine Hills, NEVER lets high risk offenders participate in these programs? Also the Gazette should know that workers are NEVER unsupervised. Oh and offenders who have good behavior and have "earned" their spot never mess up or violate that sacred trust given them. Part of the problem here was he was still at the facility. Obviously he should have been bagging groceries at IGA because that would have made the difference
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 8 years ago
It would appear to me that some of you need to learn the difference between work release and ESCAPE!!
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
(link deleted)


I thought the link was relevant, but I should have known better.

[This message has been edited by Oddjob (7/2/2013)]
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Posted by Raoul Childs (+70) 8 years ago
Are you kidding? Why don't you people learn to read? She asked if the public should be informed of a program that lets troubled youth out into the community and how they are chosen and kept track of.

As always you idiots twist peoples words to make controversy. You all should be ashamed, but everyone knows that you won't be. You are to busy "fueling the fire".

Why don't you try being helpful for once, instead of trying to make people out to look like Nazis and hateful arrogant scum/ When we all know that is what you would like to act the part of. Only you try to do it using big words and a fake smile.

Good people see through your facade!!

And I for one don't care one bit what you say or think.

Thank God that there are some intelligent people in this world and it is not filled only by your kind.
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Posted by Raoul Childs (+70) 8 years ago
BRAVO!!!!!! tmc BRAVO!!!!!! Finally some one who can read and think and is not afraid to put the truth of the matter in print!!!

[This message has been edited by Raoul Childs (7/4/2013)]
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Posted by Raoul Childs (+70) 8 years ago
You have to be one of the most idiotic people I have ever had the displeasure of reading your drivel.

It was the comment about the stars that was what brought up the Nazis. Truley are you that clueless? Or just that racist and ridiculous?

Either way, what an idiot you are!!!
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Chill, dude! It's the spirit of the forums. It's what we come here for. I find it highly entertaining and only occasionally feel the need to help fuel it.
Meanwhile, folks, watch out for little Jimmy, whom we sent to you from Hungry Horse. He's a naughty one. Quite the little escape artist, too. He had the whole county in an uproar once.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1606) 8 years ago
Raoul,

FYI, which stands for "For Your Information", when you click on the button at the end of a post which says "reply to message", your response is placed at the very end of the sequence, and is not inserted directly after the post you are responding to.

Most users become aware of this and will either use the "quote" option or at the least make a name or message reference to the specific message they are responding to allow that person and/or others reading to follow their thought process.

Hope this helps!

FH

PS- Anyone who is so concerned with this program is exactly the type of "holier than thou" fool who would ruin it by finger pointing or otherwise adding ridiculous dramatics when they encountered it. The irony is that even just after they shame another they can immediately look into a mirror and see perfection.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 8 years ago
You are such an idiot. You have no idea what you are talking about.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 8 years ago
I agree with everything you said. I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 8 years ago
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
I agree with David. Frank is an idiot. How's that for mc.comprehension? LOL.
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Posted by Nannette Morgan (+47) 8 years ago
Maybe Ms.M was referring to Dr. Seuss s book. STARS UPON THARS! As in star bellied as opposed to those without stars upon THARS. Pretty soon we ll all want stars on ours, then we ll all want stars off ours! BAAAAA! Eek!
Star bellied sneetches, that s it!
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Posted by Smiley (+847) 8 years ago
I'm with Wendy W. on this. Finally a thread worth reading!

I will attempt to sum everything up.

1. Mrs. M was in a panic about youth prisoners working in town. If you haven't looked at Miles City in a while Mrs. M, most of the service industry has some sort of criminal past, even if it's just traffic tickets. I'm not generalizing, I'm saying that we are all human beings who have done something that doesn't mesh with the law.

2. If you are "all for rehabilitation," you would respect these kids' right to some sort of privacy, and not condemn them for doing the right thing because they did something wrong. You freaked out on a WEBSITE to GOSSIP about it. Don't lie, you did. Accept that they are non-violent offenders and they are regulated. It isn't your job, or the sheriff's job. In fact, if the sheriff didn't know about it, he's not doing a very good job of being observant.

3. Amorette is the farthest from racist I think a Montana Citizen can get. When I've described her in the past, liberal, socialist, etc... are some words that I've used. Maybe she has been oppressive unintentionally because of her white privilege, but that's not even what you were talking about. Her comment was misunderstood, and I think if she was referring to the holocaust (which she wasn't) that would make it an anti-Semitic comment, not racist. Racism usually effects POC's (people of color) and other RACES, not heritages.

And TMC, your little comment about mental health issues. Procreate off. I am actually a person that suffers from mental health issues. Since you don't, you have NO RIGHT to appropriate the suffering and stereotyping of individuals that suffer from mental health issues. What I like or what any other person with a MHI is offended by is none of your concern. Stop trying to be a damn crusader, you sound stupid ok? P.S people with mental health issues usually try to distance themselves from the term "mentally ill." It's not PC, it's actually also offensive. Nice try there champ.

4. Luvlife, you just posted. I swear every time I see a semi-controversial post, you are all like "Yeah, that's why I don't POST here" in your POST. Change that to "Yeah, that's why I ONLY POST when I disagree too, and when I want others to jump on my bandwagon of ONLY POSTING to talk about themselves."

5. You guys are still funny as hell, and I've missed being here. Some people just need to learn what is socially acceptable.

I bet some of these prisoners work at Walmart...
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Posted by celeste williams (+158) 8 years ago
It's not PC,Some people just need to learn what is socially acceptable.
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