Random Thoughts on a Lazy Sunday Afternoon
Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
One common theme I have seen repeated on this forum is an inordinate amount of self-righteous hand-wringing over poor people, the unemployed or the homeless. With that being said, it begs the question: why are so many of these same people so rabidly opposed to businesses locating in Montana? These would include the devil corporations like oil companies, mining companies , timber, railroads and utilities, etc ., which provide abundant high-paying jobs elsewhere? Why do they insist on everybody reelecting the same slate of politicians who promote nothing but continued misery for the poor, homeless and unemployed who want to work? It appears to me there is a disconnect here, if you truly care for the downtrodden.

45 years ago when I was a typical Communist-sympathizing UM student, it was all about holding out for the "good, clean or green" industries that were all going to flock to Montana for the "pristine Quality of Lifec" so profusely heralded by all the college professors. Well, 40 years have passed and Montana is further in the dumper with the demise of Anaconda Copper, Montana Power, Asarco and others, and the pledge by Mr. Peabody years ago, that his coal company will never do business in Montana with the current corporate tax structure and anti-business environment, so proudly enshrined by the 1976 Constitution overhaul.

45 years have passed and the "clean or green" industries have all opted for the business and tax-friendly places like Texas or Florida. Instead, Montana got haters like Ted Turner, the certified moron, Glenn Close and other Hollywood nimrods and sold the "Tourist Meccac" bill of goods.

I hate to be the bearer of more bad news, but any new "clean or green" industries (or tourists) are not going to come to a place that is below zero six months out of the year and on fire for the rest, with one of the worst tax and regulatory structures, outside of California.

40 years ago, I was sitting in a friend's kitchen and we were excitedly engaged in a discussion about saving it all "for the future generations!" His Mother, who had lived through the Depression, was taking this all in and after listening to us praising the morality of it all, said this: "That's all fine and good." She said. "..But the problem with those mountains is. you can't eat them.."

You know, she was absolutely right, and as soon as I realized that, I was no longer poor, unemployed or potentially homeless. I was also no longer able to be in Montana if I intended to make a living.

Change can be good...
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3244) 8 years ago
A success story is an enjoyable read. Good for you.
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Posted by Jan Cornutt (+275) 8 years ago
If you are a communist sympathizer...am glad you left.,....korkyll
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 8 years ago
Jan

Your tenuous grasp of the English language is appalling. He used the past tense "was."
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 8 years ago
The original post is rife with brown stinky stuff. Lets start here:
Anaconda Copper and Asarco left Montana with nothing but Superfund sites in their wake. Good riddance to bad rubbage.
Montana Power failed completely due to their own ignorance. They had a profitable business structure, that guaranteed their shareholders 13% percent. Forever. Who wouldn't be thrilled with 13% these days? They bailed to try to strike it richer in the telecommunications industry. They hung themselves, with no assistance from any of us in Montana. And, on the way out the door, they raped the retirement programs that their employees paid into for decades, leaving their hardworking employees in the lurch. Thats not the kind of business management we will ever need in Montana.
Very few in Montana have a problem with timber companies that do it right, with an eye towards sustainability. When they can prove that they can do it right, they are welcome back. Anytime at all.
Oil companies should be required to build the infrastructure to support their employees. They expect us to provide housing and services for their employees, but when the current boom dies, and it's just a matter of time, they will happily walk away with all their obscene profits, leaving behind a massive mess, and crushing unemployment in their wake.
6 months below zero? Never happened, and never will. Thats ludicrous. And the fire season is generally 3 months, max.
You can rail on tourists all you want, but the facts are that we need, and want tourist dollars. They come here to spend money, lots of money, AND THEN THEY LEAVE. How's that not the perfect scenario?
Thats my random reply to random thoughts.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17328) 8 years ago
I make a living in Montana. Rather comfortably, I must say.

I also support the oil & gas industry, mining, timber, and other extractive industries. Outside of the cyanide ban (which I voted against and still think is a terrible idea), I am not aware of any Montana policies (state or local) that discourage extractive industries. If you are talking about the federal land agencies, I would agree that NEPA needs to be overhauled to restrict the number of frivolous lawsuits from fringe environmental groups.

I also feel for the poor, the unemployed, and the homeless, and think we should help them out to restore the middle class in this country. Compassion is a virtue.

So, "Oddjob", like....WTF is your point?
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
"I make a living in Montana. Rather comfortably, I must say."

Good for you.

You have an office there, but how much of your work is related to current development in Montana?

I am well aware of the sins of the past Mr. Schmitz but there are endless volumes of regulations in place today to prevent that scope of degradation from ever happening again. If it is revenge you are looking for, you will never get it and its a piss-poor business model anyway.

So, how much do you benefit from the tourists, Mr. Schmitz? If that's your business, congratulations. I doubt they do anything to reduce your property taxes, though. And of course Montana benefits greatly from all the sales taxes they pay..Oh.. that right. They don't pay any! Tourists are crumbs at the table

Look at your business tax and severance tax structures in relation to Wyoming and North Dakota. Montana is an island of despair surrounded by prosperity. Why do you think that is?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Last I heard, tourism was about number three in the economy, behind ag and maybe timber. Might even by number two.
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Posted by Al Borden (+256) 8 years ago
Amorette-Have Kelly help you with the englysh language. It is very important to find trivial flaws in a person`s grammer. And Gramper for that matter.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Montana is an island of despair surrounded by prosperity.


Feel free to pack your poop and take a hike, any time.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
In the corner of the state I like best we have become dependent on Canadian money. Because they seem to have lots of it and love to spend it. We treat them very well (ka-ching) and give them the very best service. Unfortunately most of our fellow Americans don't get quite the same treatment because all they care about is how cheap they can get it and what's free. Too bad we can't take food stamps in our line of work.
If it weren't for Canada, Montana would be ruint. The way I see it.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Our state has had a budget surplus for years. We have had low unemployment for years. Compared to some times, when we were in the depression and the rest of the country was booming, we are doing splendidly.

Stop being so determined to destroy the state the save it and enjoy how well we are going.

I always want to say anyone who thinks environmental laws are evil should take a swim across the Butte pit. I'd even let you do the back stroke. Then tell me how evil environmental laws are.
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 8 years ago
My primary source of income has nothing to do with tourism. Zero. Nada. My secondary business does make money from tourists. They love to see a bottle of wine with a "Made In Montana" sticker on it. And they love it even more when it's very drinkable wine.
My post was not intended to denigrate any extractive industry that is concerned about what they will eventually leave behind. But history tells us that they just don't care. They have all proven to us that the bottom dollar is their only concern. I will happily welcome them all to Montana after they post a $10 million bond, repayable with interest when the environmental damage they have done is rectified. In some cases, $10 million may not be enough. In some, it probably is. If they are so damn sure their business practices will not damage the state we all love, then put up the money and go to work. If you're not willing to do that, then you are probably hiding something we don't want to get stuck with down the road. Fracking anybody?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 8 years ago
SHUT YOUR HOOR MOUTH ABOUT FRAKKING!! WE'RE ALL GOING TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY IF PEOPLE DON'T PROCREATE THIS UP!!
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 8 years ago
OK, I figured out what they meant by Englysh Language but who the hell is Gramper...
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17328) 8 years ago
There are no bans on fracking in Montana. Its all about economics.

Oddjob, you are a freaking moron. Educate yourself about Montana policies that you deem to be so detrimental, compare those to North Dakota and Wyoming, and come back to debate us again.

Until then, you are nothing but a moron. I am done with you. Goodbye.
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Posted by stphipps (+38) 8 years ago
5 minutes of my life wasted on this ridiculous thread!
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
Ha Ha!

The moron card sure came out quick.

If you don't want to answer my question, just say so.

I know several people who conducted feasibility studies for relocating their business from Nevada and Colorado to Montana. Both concluded their taxes would be 13% to 15% higher in Montana. Both stayed put.

So as a moron, I make the simple observation that energy production is booming in Wyoming, North Dakota and Canada while Montana flips burgers for the few tourists who are left. If the Montana playing field is so level, why are these industries not there in any significant capacity?

Mr. Schmitz, you better treat those Canadians well. They have pockets full of cash from energy development jobs. The Americans only have their unemployment EPPIcards, so they need to be thrifty.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17328) 8 years ago
I know several people who conducted feasibility studies for relocating their business from Nevada and Colorado to Montana. Both concluded their taxes would be 13% to 15% higher in Montana. Both stayed put.


So the answer is fast food restaurants in Nevada and Colorado are more profitable in Nevada and Colorado, compared to Montana.

Enjoy your career at Sonic, "Oddjob".
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 8 years ago
I'd guess "Oddjob" works at In 'n Out.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 8 years ago
BJOB wrote:
I know several people who conducted feasibility studies for relocating their business from Nevada and Colorado to Montana. Both concluded their taxes would be 13% to 15% higher in Montana. Both stayed put.



Where I come from, SEVERAL is much larger than BOTH.

Therefore, I call BULLPOOP on BJOB's lame anecdote.

Please stop making poop up.
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
Gunner

They were Engineering firms, just like the one you work for, looking for the same clients.

Answer my question instead of posting snipes.

And,I have In 'n Out Burger. Double Double's are the closest thing I have ever found to Red Rock burgers.

Be jealous.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5095) 8 years ago
As a loyal employee, I'd expect you to defend In n' Out.

It ain't all that, though.

Five Guys is just as good, if not better...
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