Bummer. Jerry Falwell died. May he enjoy the hell he feels so fit to impose on others. Good riddance.

Do I hear a Hallelujah, brother!

God told me that I had to raise $5 in a week or Jerry would die....I'm not very good at raising money.

Hallelujah! I hope he is warm enough down there

John 15:18-20

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (edited 5/15/2007).]

Amos 5:10-12,21-24

While I am no Rev. Falwell fan, to celebrate a human being's passing in this manner is very disconcerting.

Amen Sister Denise

I agree with Denise, this is disgusting.

May the worms feast on his fat belly.

Nothing posted on this thread has come close to the level of Falwell's general hatred of humanity. I'm sure he's better off for having left it and we're better off for him having done so.

A few of his happier quotes:

"The Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc."

Good news, everyone!

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die.
-- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (AV)

Jephthah made a vow to the Lord: "If you give the Ammonites into my hands, whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return ... will be the Lord's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." ... and the Lord gave them into his hands.... When Jephthah returned to his home..., who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! And he did to her as he had vowed. And she was a virgin.
-- Judges 11:30-32, 34, 39 (NIV)

... all who are under the yoke of slavery ... who have believing masters ... must serve all the better since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. If any one teaches otherwise ... he is puffed up with conceit, he knows nothing; he has a morbid craving for controversy..., which produce envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among men who are depraved in mind...
-- I Timothy 6:1-5 (RSV)

Woof. I wonder what a degree from Liberty University is worth, anyway...

"I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status."

Nice guy. Whether one agrees with homosexuality or not (no need to chime in, Pastor Oyen), the last part of the quote is truly frightening.

And my favorite quote of Falwell's:

"I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen.""

Considering that it was people of supreme faith (even greater than his own) that perpetrated 9/11, his comments would be laughable if so many people didn't believe them.

I say again, proudly, good riddance. Ironically enough, he's now where he's always wanted to be: off this world and on to the next. I hope it's not at all what he expected.

The world really lost a crusader yesterday with the passing of Ms. King. Her death will truely impact the world more so than the so called reverend.

I agree with Roxanna.

Jehoshaphat's Nome: 27:29-6, paradigm 13:26 (Highlighted in yellow)

"Verily I say unto thee, should the fatted badger of Gilliad roll in dung encrusted, chicken fat, then (and let me make this verrrry clear) and only then shall the children of the divine and zircon encrusted roller derby be delivered unto that wondrous (yet oddly ponderous) promised land of Guinness and fried pork rinds, never to ponder again, suffering only those that wouldest subscribe to the wee beasty of the long and cumbersome sentence of the quoted verse and opinion.

Thus sayest the marginally questionable book.

OOPS! It seems that there are other books out there with different opinions. If you can trust what you hear, there are actually people that believe differently than me. Sooooo, what I am thinking is my above quoted text and verse may not be the answer. All I am certain of is, if there is a heaven and it is filled with Falwells, Swaggerts, Bakers and Robertsons, I'd just as soon run away with the circus.

I don't know what kind of people post on this site, but reading this made me a little sick. I've never been around people that rejoice in another human's tragedy. I guess it really shows what kind of refined, open minded and tolerant people some of you are, condemning someone to hell just because you disagree with them. (seems a little ironic)

You know, Dude, It is not my job or business to condemn anyone to any place. That was sort of my point.

At least you were not judgmental. Sarcasm truly is lost in the absence of inflection....jeeez.

[This message has been edited by Tucker Bolton (edited 5/16/2007).]

ugly thread

Casey -

I'm not rejoicing over a man's death. I'm not dancing a jig, I'm not praising any god for taking him or overtly hoping for more of his ilk to pass (as Falwell's homeboy Pat Robertson did recently in regard to future Supreme Court vacancies when William Renquist passed). I'm not condemning his followers to burn in hell for his beliefs (as he has repeatedly done in regard to those who hold different worldviews than he does - besides, it would be difficult for me to condemn a person to a place in which I don't believe). Besides, as it's been said, those who believe in hell deserve it.

I am simply expressing my decided lack of sadness that a sick and hateful person is no longer on this earth. The fact that he has stopped breathing means that there is one less person on the planet who advocates the limitation of basic human rights to others simply because of his religion. His loss equals a net gain in the balance of happiness in the world, so I don't see him being gone as a bad thing. Besides, aren't Christians happy to die and meet their god? One would think that more people should be celebrating his death. Wouldn't that be what he wanted?

Here's a good article about the man:
http://www.tompaine.com/a...rality.php

Levi -

Ugly thread for an ugly individual.

If it was April of 1945, I would be rejoicing after Hitler blew his brains out. Instead it is May 2007, and I am rejoicing that Jerry is dead. I always rejoice when the world loses a @#$&. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it....someone else will rejoice when I die....and it won't hurt my feelings.

ROT IN HELL FALWELL!

Comparing whatever Jerry Falwell has done to murdering millions of people and starting a war where millions more died is just a bit silly if you ask me.

You don't have to say you're sad about him dying, but proclaiming your approval in a public place over someone's death doesn't show a lot of class.

Basically you guys are accusing him of saying "mean things" and supporting "mean legislation". Would you vote to execute him for that?

Maybe we should take a page from his associate Fred Phelps and picket his funeral, Levi. That would show an appropriate measure of decorum for such a "great" Christian. Again, no one is advocating Falwell's execution, but it's not wrong to express a feeling of relief that a rotten apple has been removed from the barrel.

Personally, I'll leave the "executions" to the professionals. Falwell's professional ancestors have that particular market cornered. Or I can just go rent the video game based on the Left Behind books and gun down heathen non-believers, whether they're unarmed or not. Great family values there.

As always, I'm proud to be an "born-again" apostate.

Brian,
You've successfully made your point. You disagree with Jerry Falwell's politics; join the club. The point is that you've handled your distaste in an appalling fashion. I fail to see the need for this public humiliation of a dead man. The lack of respect demonstrated on this thread has been shocking.

I'm shocked and appalled and a little in need of a nap.

Danger?....really?.....danger?

As far as execution verses impeachment, I'm flexible. Oh, wait, that's someone else. Sorry

Rafe -

Appalling? How have I been appalling? Where is it written that Mr. Falwell is to be respected? Have I called him names? Have I blamed him for any attacks on our country? Have I called him worse than Satan? I've called him sick and hateful, claims I believe that have a great deal of supporting evidence. But I certainly haven't said anything worthy of hellfire.

I'll tell you what - if I happen to die before you do, you can say as many appalling things about me as you like. I won't care - I won't hurt me one bit.

Brian,

Let me clarify what exactly I find appalling about this. A person has died. This person left behind a family, friends, and loved ones who are grieving his death at this very moment. Meanwhile you're using this time to illustrate why you think he should "enjoy the hell he feels so fit to impose on others". Your lack of respect isn't directed at Mr. Falwell, it's directed toward those who loved him. Are your comments worthy of hellfire? Certainly not, but in my opinion this has been done in very poor taste.

What Falwell gave birth to is in the White House today. Enough said.

I don't post much on this website. I enjoy reading it most of the time; sometimes I just shake my head and don't say much, but this time I have to say that I agree that this thread is disturbing. I agree that everybody has the right to their own opinion, that is what makes it fun. T This thread is not fun or funny, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth...

I think Falwell did a great deal of harm to our country - I think we will be a long time recovering and healing from the harm he has caused.

But given my druthers - I'll choose not to mimic his behavior.

Railing against him in the very Falwellian manner that I found so objectionable when he was alive . . . well heck, that seems in some perverse way to almost be paying homage to the man.

Rather than sink to his level - rather than resort to the politics of hate that he seemed so comfortable with . . . I'll do my best in the coming election cycle to convince three "liberal" types to register to vote and I'll do my best to get them to the polls on election day(s).

Some thoughts:

1. I believe that the current pietistic view of the republican party is largely the work of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, to the detriment of the party.

2. Theologically, I have a different point of view than Jerry Falwell. I believe that his theological point of view has not done the cause of Jesus Christ a lot of good. He taught way too much law and not nearly enough gospel.

Have said all of that, Brian:

The venomous rhetoric in this thread is totally unwarranted. So you practice some sort of moral atheism and don't believe in the God or Bible of Jerry Falwell. Good for you. That is not news. The truth (and good news) is that the God of Jerry Falwell doesn't believe in atheists and is not threatened by them.

Rather than trying to destroy a worldview that you believe is "idiotic", you would do well Brian, to contend for your worldview. Perhaps YOU can start a college that teaches moral atheism or moral relativism or whatever the heck it is you believe at this point in your life. It seems like that would be a better use of your time rather than the poison pen approach.

It is ironic (and somewhat humorous) how you are unknowingly making a great case for the doctrine of the total depravity of man. So go ahead and dash yourself against the Rock. It might take fifty years, but someday you will figure out that all of the higher thinking and good moral behavior aren't enough to save yourself. I am praying it is sooner than later.

I see some people have read the book "God is not Great".
He was a capitalist that feasted off of the earnings of little old ladies and yes his spawn is in the White House. Damian W. Bush.
The one good thing he did was leave Jim Baker hanging so that he went to prison alone. I wonder how mauch money he stole from PTL.

Respect is earned. It comes to you at your death from your actions in your life. This subject did not earn any of my respect through his actions.......

I have been flip and sarcastic re this thread but It honestly points out what has been troubling me for some time. Be it religion, dogma, doctrine or politics, we continue to build black and white walls. Where is the dialog? Where is the respect? I did not respect Jerry Falwell but to use him or anyone else for that matter to make my viewpoint appear more correct can only serve to further alienate those that do not share my views. It is the equivalent of basing an entire belief system on the two or three verses that an some build an entire philosophy on.

Will I miss the good reverend?....nope! Is it reasonable for me to use that fact to prove a point?.....nope! I suspect that we have more important issues to deal with. At least, I sure hope we do.

Great points Tucker.

We are never going to address, let alone begin to solve, the problems facing us as Nation and People if we don't sit down and talk to one another. I'm firmly convinced we all have more in common that we (want to) think we do. If we let the hate mongers (on all sides) keep us stirred up - keep us divided - we can only expect more of the same that we've saw the past few decades.
- - - - - - -
- - - - - - -


I am also personally convinced that power lies in the voting booth. If a person doesn't like what the Reverend Falwell stood for . . . the thing to do is register new voters who also don't approve of the man and/or his politics.

Great posts Tucker and Hal, I couldn't agree more.

The day after Falwell's death there was an "anti-memorial" held for him in San Francisco which was set up by a LGBT group and even as many people as there are in San Francisco that dislike Falwell (the vast majority of the population I think it's safe to say), the event only drew a handful of people and was declared a "flop" by the newspaper.

The reason is the same that Brian's thread got the negative reaction that it did. Most people realize that no matter how much you disagree with or even dislike someone, celebrating the death of another human being is an ugly thing to do, no matter who they were. The person that really winds up looking bad is you.

On the topic of black vs. white, your post reminds me of my favorite Chris Rock quote (edited since it's a family board):

"In the whole country we've got this real [messed] up gang mentality. Republicans are idiots, Democrats are idiots, the conservatives are idiots and liberals are idiots. Pretty much anyone that makes up their mind before they hear the issue is a [] fool.OK? Everybody wants to be in a gang so bad. I'm conservative, I'm liberal. Just be a [] person. No decent person is one thing. OK? Just hear it out, let it swirl around then form your opinion. I'm a person, I got some [stuff] I'm conservative about, I got some [stuff] I'm liberal about.

The way I look at it the only way to be a radical democrat or a radical republican is to convince yourself that you're right and they're wrong. The easiest way to do that is to only read stuff that reinforces your own viewpoint and turn "the other guys" into a ridiculous indefensible stereotype.

The reality is that people on both sides are trying to be good people and doing what they believe is right. I have posted along these lines before, but I think most people find it easier to pick a side and mindlessly support it. That way you don't have to think about individual issues or contemplate what is right or wrong, you have predefined good guys and bad guys and all you have to do is blame the bad guys for everything that's wrong in the world and not trouble yourself with ever having to use your brain.

I agree with Levi 1000% (although I never knew Chris Rock to be such a deep thinker ).

>> The easiest way to do that is to only read stuff that reinforces your own viewpoint. . .

Excellent point Levi.

If you never challenge your own ideas and thinking - you'll have no internal compass to steer by.

One of the most profound truths I've ever heard came from the lips of Mr. Rock:

"There's not a lot of virgins at the abortion rally"

Chris Rock is a smart guy, and very funny as well. My favorite comedian although he's pretty crude for a lot of people.

If you meet a guy with a pierced tongue...

"If you never challenge your own ideas and thinking - you'll have no internal compass to steer by."

I assume this means you will start reading Luther and Walther?

As long as you're willing to peruse some Hauerwas, Yoder & Barth

Since we've gotten so far as to quote scripture here...here's some more just to break-up the monotony:

A Reading from the Book of Armaments, Chapter 4, Verses 16 to 20:

"Then did he raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, saying, 'Bless this, O Lord, that with it thou mayst blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.' And the people did rejoice and did feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals...Now did the Lord say, 'First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of thine foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it.'"

OKAY, NAME THAT MOVIE???

As for me, this thread has been rather silly - why waste so much time, effort and finger speed casting stones at Jerry Falwell when he was, like the rest of us, just one person with just one opinion? I am no fan of Falwell myself, but I say if he is to be condemned, let God take care of that...whomever that God is to him.

Shu - I fart in your general direction.

The greatest movie Mrs. Healey ever let us watch in history class, btw - though I really doubt "Quest for the Holy Grail" was a particularly accurate depiction of medivial England.

Ironically, in some ways the search for the Holy Grail is an accurate portrayal of medieval life. Albeit, silly and humorous and one of my all time favorites. "The Name of the Rose". Staring Sean Connery is the best medieval portrayal ever.

its been interesting that Larry Flynt has shown more respect to Fallwell than this thread shows

Larry Flynt was not responsible for the moral majority and GW.

Since someone else brought this thread back up

"As long as you're willing to peruse some Hauerwas, Yoder & Barth"

See that is the problem. Once you have read some Luther and Walther you understand that Barth is an idiot.

Look, I'm not going to get into a "My thologian is better than your theologian" pissing match, but I will point out that there's really no point in trying to discuss these sorts of things when one person in the discussion won't consider that there are other legitimate viewpoints beyond the faith & practice of the LCMS.

Which is exactly my point. Having been a part of 7 Christian demoniations, I am where I am today through a lot of thought and study. I left first 6 because I concluded their view was not a true worldview. There were elements of truth, but not the whole package. Why bother having a worldview, if every worldview is legitimate and should be accepted?

What I am really trying to understand is how others who post here come to the conclusions that they express. I don't observe in most a "framework" for their rational. Most seem to want to simple be in the "majority opinion" of whatever CNN says they should believe about an issue.

I don't understand the thinking behind the "moral relativism" that is so often expressed here. As much as I would love to, I can't set aside 46 years of what I have come to believe about life to simply say all worldviews are equal and legitimate.

Which is not what anybody is really saying, but what you, with your vested interest in maintaining your monolithic worldview, are hearing.

So if I happen to have some time for theological reading, what would you recommend of Yoder? Barth's work is a little more well known, I shouldn't have a challenge finding something there.

It's been an interesting year here in Kansas. I live on the edge of an Amish and Mennonite community. I struggle to see how they apply their standards/laws/regulations (whatever you want to call them) consistantly. Diesel but not gas? Cell phones, but not a house phone?

Yoder's most well known book would be "The Politics Of Jesus", but "Body Politics" and "The Royal Priesthood" are good as well. If you want something written for a more general audience, you might want to look at "Resident Aliens" or "The Peacable Kingdom" by Stanley Hauerwas - in general, both of these authors present Barth's ideas without requiring that the reader to learn German

Wow, so much here.

First, I'd say it's dangerous to quote scripture when you really don't understand the full context or are unwilling to set aside disbelief long enough to look at it openly or honestly.

Second, I worry about those who would hate their political adversaries even into the grave. They must have lost some sense that there is more to life and a person than who that person votes for.

As was mentioned earlier, this seems to underscore that point, that Jerry Falwell was much more in life than a political effigy:

http://www.latimes.com/ne...ion-center

Or here's a more historic example of how respect is to be paid in death, even to even the most bitter political adversaries:

http://www.winstonchurchi...pageid=421

No one should rejoice over another man's death.

But then I started thinking, is that really true?

What about Adolf Hitler? Osama Bin Laden? Charles Manson? Saddam Hussein? Jeffrey Dahmer?

Should we rejoice over any of their deaths (past or future)?

Well, to me it seems fairly apparent - that in some cases - we should.

If so, then we have established that there is a case for actually rejoicing over another man's death - and we already know there is a case for not doing so.

So where is the line? What distinguishes the two extremes? Is there a criterion for when rejoicing is allowed or not?

Falwell did some very, very bad things, but do those merit rejoicing upon his demise?

I kind of think not, but that's subjective - and I don't set the rules.

Come on Greg, there was no rejoicing here when Saddam was put down.

Killing hundreds of thousands of your own doesn't even begin to put you in the same league of evil as Jerry Falwell.

We all know Saddam never voted Republican.

Come on Greg, there was no rejoicing here when Saddam was put down.

Killing hundreds of thousands of your own doesn't even begin to put you in the same league of evil as Jerry Falwell.

We all know Saddam never voted Republican.


------------------------------------

Saddam was a Democrat?

Wow, the things I learn from enlightened people like you, Rick.

OMG, Rick made a real funny!