Gun Control? or ??????
Posted by DAVE HERRING (+72) 8 years ago
I am so sorry for all the violent deaths in the recent few months at different places around the nation, however it occured to me that the gun is not the problem, as much as society itslef. We as a society allow people that should not have access to weapons. I think that it takes a certian amount of responsiblity to be allowed to own a gun and even more to operate it. I do understand the need to limit the magazine hold amounts. I am more in favor of allowing the pricipals and adminastrators and maybe the custodial stuff to be properly trained and allowed to carry weapons in a school. I know that in Isreal the staff carry guns and are properly trained and they dont have school shootings. I know that the Presidents kids attend a school where there is armed protection. Just seems to me the wiser decison would be to enforce and strengthen our already existing laws instead of trying to stop allowing gun ownership. I personally do not own but 2 guns and both of them are old guns passed down thru my family. I have never shot them, b/c they are antiques. My sons all have guns, but they are also of age and responsible adults and use them for hunting. I just thing it all goes back to the parents and family when we are raised and how we place values and our "up-bringing" to copy a coined word from the south. I was just curious how people out there are thinking? Maybe I wont get a bunch of smart-tail comments, but more serious discussion. thanks
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Posted by SD (+1525) 8 years ago
It just seems like a concealed carry or open carry would be difficult , especially for someone in maintenance. The individual would have to deal with that problem. I always thought that it would be darn handy to have a firearm if someone started shooting at me or others near me.
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Posted by DAVE HERRING (+72) 8 years ago
Yeah that is a problem, wonder if it was like maybe a secure type lock box where it was controled with a code or a fingerprint of authorized individuals and placed at various locations in the buildings so that certian people could access them in the event of an emergency.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
I can tell you that the teachers I know--and I know quite a few--are HORRIFIED at the thought they should be responsible to run around killing people in the name of protection. Friendly fire kills a lot of folks. How would you feel if you murdered one of the kids in your own kindergarten class by mistake? Just tossing more bullets into the mix rarely solves anything.

BTW, gun owner here. Multiple guns, in fact. I know that shakes up regressives to think progressives own weapons but we do. Have quite an interesting collection, in fact.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (1/7/2013)]
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Posted by DAVE HERRING (+72) 8 years ago
Yeah I can also see that point as well. I just know somehow there has to be a way to eliminate all these wackos that do this kind of crimes. Some states have sherriff's assigned to each school. What about taking all the returning military people and offering them a job in each school as head of security as long as they are vetted and still quilified to handle weapons. Just a thought.
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Posted by SD (+1525) 8 years ago
Ok , a type of panic button that instantly summons Batman. I would not doubt the US military has a non lethal sound weapon or something else that could be at the other end of that button.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Then comes the how to pay for a armed guard in every school in the country. Multiple armed guards for large campuses. We are too cheap to pay for one school resource officer in this town. I can't imagine what it would cost to cough up for every school. Would there be a cut off point? No school smaller than x number pupils? That could prove a problem as well.
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
I have suggested to people that we have police/hired security in our schools and how to pay is always brought up. My answer is this. We didn't ask how to pay for the TSA after 9/11 we just did it.

Another, probably just as effective idea would be to have an on duty officer walk through each school at least 2 times a day at random times. This would take more staff but not as much. It would also get the kids knowing the police officers much like the school resource officer did. This will take money but it is a good deterant.

As for staff having weapons in school. It all depends on the individual. Many people, even though properly trained would not be mentally capable of handling a situation. The other issue is how to "protect" the weapon from others in all situations. This is doable but not easy.

We have to get past the "gun control" fear and all the hype and really get together to come up with a solution and 1 size won't fit all.
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2044) 8 years ago
I thought I heard (and I may be wrong) that the NRA was going to put armed guards in all schools as no cost to any city, county, state or federal goverment. They wanted to hire ex police and military to do this.
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
NRA offered a free training program for any school districts interested in developing this type of security system. They will have to provide their own security employees. Video of La Pierre's news conference is on line at NRAnews.com.
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
From Captain Mark Kelly: "As gun owners and victims of gun violence, Gabby and I know preventing gun violence and protecting responsible gun ownership go hand-in-hand. This country can put its divisive politics aside and come together to support commonsense measures to make us feel more secure in our communities. You can support the Second Amendment AND policies to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill. 74 percent of NRA members agree - and so do we.

We need less political stalemate and more responsible solutions."

http://americansforrespon...tions.org/
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
That was excellent. Now correct me if I'm mistaken but so far only one Arizona sheriff and one fake USMarine has done anything that kind of looks like protecting kids at school.
Everybody else is just talking. AND YELLING.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
Personally I think it's nuts to put armed guards in every school. A single sucker shot would take care of that guard in short order. What are they going to do, treat everyone who approaches a school like a criminal... "hands up in the air, don't make any sudden moves, wait to be frisked" sort of a thing?

We're going to accept the militarization (is that the term I'm looking for?) of our society to accommodate gun hobbyists? Pshaw.
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 8 years ago
There was an armed guard at the Columbine shooting in Colorado and precious little good it did..also at the army base there were many folks with guns and experience which also did little good...just don't agree that is an answer...
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17343) 8 years ago
I agree with Dave. Screw having armed guards everywhere. That's exactly what the communist nazis want us to do.

We should also get rid of TSA. We should just plan on having sky marshals on a random number of flights, to be ready to take out the jihadists.

This is America. Live free or die.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
accommodate gun hobbyists

Fantasizing about having sex with your rifle is a bit more serious than a hobby
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
Let's review. Shootings at legal gun shows. 0 Shootings at American airports,(can't remember any) assumed 0
Guns are neither the problem nor the answer.
Guards and police have guns and do protect property, life etc. The reason to have a guard in a school or police go through a school is for a deterant. Much like you lock the door. If someone wants it bad enough they'll find a means.
I don't like the idea of banning weapons, but I'll listen to the arguements if they're civil, thoughtful and focus on the correct goal, protecting kids.
Talking about sex with a gun is as off base in this discusion as talking about sex with an animal. What does that have to do with solving the problem? I don't know ANYONE who fanticizes about either!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
I don't know ANYONE who fanticizes about either!

Apparently, your FB feed is a lot tamer then mine.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Actually, I remember a shooting at a gun show. Someone thought it would be cute for his kid to fire off a heavy semi-automatic weapon. It didn't occur to the guy that his child was too small to handle the weapon and the kid ended up shooting himself in the head and dying.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (1/8/2013)]
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
Point well taken Amorette. I stand corrected.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
"The Onion" has a way of putting things into proper perspective:

FAIRFAX, VA-More than three weeks after the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, annoyed NRA president Wayne LaPierre told reporters Monday that while he understands the seriousness of the tragedy, he had only assumed the senseless murder of 20 first-graders and six educators by a mentally unstable gunman would have blown over by now.

Noting that the massacre was "almost a month ago" and that all of the victims had been laid to rest, the frustrated lobbyist said he couldn't help but think the nation's continued efforts to mourn victims and its protracted discussions of gun control were "a little much" at this point.

"I get that this horrible thing happened and all these kids are dead now, but honestly, how long are we going to keep talking about this?" the gun advocate said as he scanned a recent editorial on weapons permits, adding that "enough's enough, you know?" "Everywhere I go it's Newtown this, Newtown that. Meanwhile, it's 2013, and we're still talking about some shooting that happened last year. Seriously, move on already."

"I mean, jeez, it's not as if talking about them will bring them back," he added. "Let's just get over it."

The longtime NRA head acknowledged that as someone who has followed dozens of mass shootings over the years, he had anticipated roughly a week or so of mourning following the deadly tragedy, but "nothing like this, for God's sake."

In addition, LaPierre said he was deeply surprised and even somewhat irritated that discussion concerning the heartbreaking loss of young life and the efficacy of existing gun control laws had continued to persist into the new year "as if people had nothing better to do."

"Look, I get it: A bunch of kids died, and it's really procreateing sad or whatnot, and blah blah blah, but it's not the end of the world here, people-the beat goes on," a visibly agitated LaPierre said. "Hell, people die in car accidents every day, and we don't make a big stink about that. We don't shut down-just totally shut down-everything for weeks so we can talk about it over and over and over again, do we? Of course not. Oh, but I guess I'm the bad guy for suggesting we get our priorities straight and stop acting like a bunch of mewling babies because of 20 dead kids. Is that it? I'm the bad guy?"

"Yeah, I'm the bad guy," he added. "Fine."
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
Also from "The Onion"...

CLEVELAND-Saying that while he "wasn't really in the mood" to gun down a group of random strangers at the moment, mentally ill man Waylon Birch told reporters this afternoon that he was, however, happy to know the option was available to him should the urge occur. "Honestly, I'm just not feeling up to running into some public area and massacring dozens of innocent people with an assault weapon right now, but it's nice that the option is technically always there for me in case I change my mind," said the psychotic and unhinged Birch, who takes comfort knowing he could always take some time out of his day to make a legal purchase of a semi-automatic rifle at a local gun store and then make his way to the nearest shopping mall, office, or school and murder as many people as he'd like. "I may not want to now, per se, but if I suddenly get the urge later today to go to the park and start shooting everyone there, that would be quite easy for me to do given our current laws. It's just nice to have options, you know?" At press time, Birch told reporters that all this gun talk was actually starting to get him in the mood to visit a nearby gun store
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+797) 8 years ago
Why should we keep talking about Gun control. Maybe there's a better solution. Why not ammo control? You can buy as many guns you want, but you have to pass a background check before you can get your bullets. There should be a limit of how much ammunition you can buy. Serious sportsmen shouldn't need any more than a few bullets. Before you get your ammo you'd have to go through a waiting period. To get the ammo,you should fill out a cleverly designed questionnaire that is actually a mental health screening.
I am reminded of a friend who went to Steadman's and bought a handgun bought and was found in his car contemplating suicide but he neglected to buy bullets.

Today in the Denver post was an article on the Aurora shootings The police testified at the first hearing for Jamees Holmes who committed the atrocities in Aurora that over 300 rounds were on him and in his car.Who ever sold them or shipped that much ammo surely could have questione who or why this much ammo was needed outside of Afghanistan. So get to back the old platitude "Guns don't kill, it's bullets that kill.
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+613) 8 years ago
BoxedMC:

Are you aware that transactions at gun shows are currently exempt from NICS background checks and that it has been repeatedly demonstrated that gun show dealers are only too willing to sell weapons to individuals who they have suspected couldn't pass a background check, such as felons, gun traffickers, or the mentally ill?

Do you recognize that 40% of firearms sold in this country each year are purchased at gun shows?

The criminal background check system is supported by a clear majority of the NRA membership yet this exemption has been allowed to stand by lawmakers. If you agree with the NRA membership, what do you think is the appropriate community (aka government) response to the gun show exemption?
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
Joe:
yes, I am aware that gun shows and private gun sales are exempt from background checks. I don't stand with the NRA on many issues and I don't believe in registration of firearms or any permanent tracking record of individuals purchasing or owning legal firearms. I know, I know, how do we determine if one is mentally fit to own a firearm? I want that as much as you do, I just want to find a way to do it that doesn't track law abiding citizens and the weapons they might own.

Please support this statment:Are you aware that transactions at gun shows are currently exempt from NICS background checks and that it has been repeatedly demonstrated that gun show dealers are only too willing to sell weapons to individuals who they have suspected couldn't pass a background check, such as felons, gun traffickers, or the mentally ill?

The problem with most laws is that only law abiding citizens obey them. This is such a tough issue and given the current political landscape I'm not sure it's solvable. But I thought that if local people could could together to work on solutions we just might show the country how to get something accomplished. As I've said, everything is on the table for discussion for me. I'm going to reject things and you're going to reject things but at least we can talk about them.
Doug
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+613) 8 years ago
There are several undercover clips like this, one of which was taken in Phoenix on the weekend following the Tucson massacre.

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Posted by Brandon Loomis (+96) 8 years ago
There was an armed guard at the Columbine shooting in Colorado and precious little good it did..also at the army base there were many folks with guns and experience which also did little good...just don't agree that is an answer...

http://www.examiner.com/article/fact-check-columbine-high-s-armed-guard-saved-student-lives

Seems to me some people do view that an armed guard did help save some lives that day. Part of the problem with the Columbine shooting was that officers at the time had never encountered this type of situation. It was treated as a hostage situation. Now it's specifically trained for by all Law Enforcement. It's easy logic if the two shooters were engaged with the armed guard they were shooting less students at the time.

The part about the Fort Hood shooting you said there were many folks with guns and experience. Have you ever been on a military installation? Well if you had you would know that a military installation is the most gun regulated place you could possibly be in the U.S. All personal weapons are logged and kept in arms rooms and have to be signed out. Same as your weapon that is issued to you. 99% of the time you do carry your service weapon around you are not issued ammunition unless on a range. The only armed people in that scenario were the Civilian Police force and MP's, which take time to respond. Had all those soldiers been locked and loaded in that room that incident never would have occurred, well maybe it would have but the outcome would have been much different most likely with less innocent people harmed. With that being said the only that is going to stop these shooters is a bullet coming back at them. Control and access to weapons will never be effective just like it isn't effective for drugs and wasn't effective for alcohol. Any laws that come out in the next few years due to these incidents won't prevent the next one from happening.

Changes that need to take place all have one common denominator, and that's money. More mental health requires more money. Making kids safer in schools requires more money. We essentially made kids less safe in our own community because we didn't want to foot the bill for a resource officer. Making gun shows run back ground checks could possibly make less money.

However passing a law limiting what manufacturers can put on a gun or how many rounds a magazine can carry is easy and doesn't cost a dime. And for some reason that's going to make people sleep better at night.
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Posted by Matt - Schmitz (+167) 8 years ago
Never been on a military base, so I may not comprehend correctly, but what's the point of packing around an empty weapon? An empty pistol is nothing more than an poorly aerodynamic rock. Completely useless. Is this one of those "military intelligence" things?
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 8 years ago
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...O4RBCZGJ5S

Gun sure didn't protect this woman or her kids did it??
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
Someone please explain the current laws on private weapons sales.I would guess that each state has different requirements. I watched the video here and didn't see where any laws were being broken, except for maybe Ohio where the guy asked to see his driver's license. So is it illegal for me to go to the state of my birth Ohio and go to a gun show or a gun shop and buy a legal firearm?
I'll try to research and answer my own questions on this but if anyone has them I would be greatful.

Joe: you said that gun shows sold to criminals but this video doesn't show that.

Howdy: this pistol packing mom was a victim of domestic violence. I can't speculate whether she would have been a victim had there been no weapons present but I can guess that she felt pretty safe in her home and may not have had a weapon nearby.

Brandon: you hit the nail on the head.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Anyone see Jon Stewart on this subject the other day? We have to be able to talk about EVERYTHING, including limiting access to some weapons. Automatically cutting off the discussion without considering that aspect is fruitless.

Just as we restrict the first amendment (try to buy kiddie porn sometime) we must restrict the second amendment for the common good.

I did like Stewart's idea that people can own as many muskets as they like.

And skip the slippery slope argument. No one wants to marry their dog or take away all guns.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
@boxdmc:

"Rules and Regulations for Ohio Gun, Knife, and Military Shows"

Licensed dealers must display their licenses as per ATF regulations. All guns must be secured from theft by tying together or in showcases. Sales of guns, knives, ammo, or weapons to minors are prohibited. You must be 21 years old to buy a handgun and a resident of Ohio. You must also be 21 years old to buy handgun ammo. You must require photo ID when selling any firearm. If you sell to a minor or felon, you may be arrested, convicted of a crime and sent to prison.

If you see minors in the show without parents, report them to a police officer at the show entrance.
24-hour security provided by local police in uniform and plain clothes. Several officers will be on duty, but they cannot be everywhere. Police your own tables at all times. If a gun or knife is stolen from you, you may be guilty of negligence, sued and be required to pay damages. Tie your guns down.

Be aware that you may be asked to make an illegal sale by a TV or newspaper reporter, felon, minor, or ATF agent. Several dealers have been set up like this at other area shows. Obey the law and require proper ID or you may be sued or convicted of a crime. ATF and police are at every show. You must require a photo ID when selling firearms.

ATF states non-licensed residents of Ohio may acquire from and dispose of personal firearms to non-licensed residents of Ohio. Non-licensed residents of Ohio cannot acquire from or dispose of firearms to non-licensed residents of any other state. If you are not sure of how many guns you may buy or sell, contact your local ATF office.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
I'm still confused regarding Ohio and ID's - it's just not very clear.
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Posted by Brandon Loomis (+96) 8 years ago
Never been on a military base, so I may not comprehend correctly, but what's the point of packing around an empty weapon? An empty pistol is nothing more than an poorly aerodynamic rock. Completely useless. Is this one of those "military intelligence" things?

Mind you this is state side. Though there is some ammo control even in Afghanistan and Iraq. The reason to carry an empty gun during training is safety. Believe it or not, not all people in the military are proficient with a weapon. Many when they join is the first time they have ever handled a firearm. Generally combat units are all very proficient. But they carry an empty weapon around because you still need to get used to having that on you at all times, keep track of it, keep it maintained. The more a person carries a loaded weapon around the higher chance there going to have an accidental discharge. Accidental discharges are kind of like the old motorcycle saying, "There's two kinds of riders those that have gone down and those that are going to go down." Though I think an accidental discharge is a little less likely.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
The more a person carries a loaded weapon around the higher chance there going to have an accidental discharge.

Let us just ponder this for a moment.
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Posted by K.Duffy (+1807) 8 years ago
Bridgier, Bridgier..whatever would we do w/o you??
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
http://news.yahoo.com/mom...53089.html
Obviously we can all find articles to support our chosen side.

And I think Amorette is right (not about the muskets though) we should be open to discussion of all possible solutions. That's not to say that I'm going to jump in the car and run down to drop my weapons off at the sheriff's office but I'll at least listen to what the other side has to say, and try to do it objectively.

I may open a can of worms here but shoot holes in this
You have to have a license to drive a car. You don't have to own a car to have a license. I'm not sure that I'm against having a license to buy a gun. I don't want Uncle having any record of what I own but this is a little different.

It all gets a little sticky when you try to "qualify" who is competent to own or even handle a weapon. What if I go to the doc for Seasonal Affect Disorder. The doc notifies the Feds that I have been put on happy meds and now I've got to turn in my weapons in the winter, or maybe forever. How do we get around this? How is the "competent person" that gets to decide who is stable and who is not? It's all based on inpterpretation of the facts.
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Posted by Matt - Schmitz (+167) 8 years ago
Therein lies a huge issue in all of this. Mental health is not "black and white". We have all known people that were a " little off", or maybe a bit more weird than the "norm". Where do we draw the line as to what is too "off" to own a weapon? I agree that the conversation must be had, but this is another sticky issue that must be addressed. Somehow.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
All I know is that, right now on facebook, there are a lot of people completely losing their poop about guns - lots of loose talk about tyranny, "cold dead hands", civil war, etc, etc.

I think we can make America a lot safer by taking away THOSE people's guns, because they obviously can't be trusted with them.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/10/2013)]
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Posted by rjg (+310) 8 years ago
It starts at home. Take away all children's violent playstation games, t.v. movies, etc. that have been a babysitter for parents who couldn't care less what their children do. They learn at an early age about violence and pointing guns just by playing games or watching it on t.v. movies.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 8 years ago
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Leave the guns, get rid of the people. No more murder, just slow and efficient rust and corrosion.

Where's that meteor when you need it?

FH
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9922) 8 years ago
I'm not sure that I'm against having a license to buy a gun. I don't want Uncle having any record of what I own but this is a little different.

This is an idea I've also been giving thought to. I've not yet sold myself on it - maybe I won't make the sale. At the moment it seems to make more sense than much of what I'm reading and hearing. The two big questions I'm asking myself (and I suspect they're the same questions others have) are:
Would it do any good?
Would it just be the first step down a confiscatory path?
= = = = =

While I'm here, I want to say thanks to everyone - on all sides of the issue - for their comments in this and other threads. There's been some good things said - some (maybe) not so good, but it's been a good dialog. Just seeing folks willing to talk about the issue, seems to me to be a good thing.
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
I have to agree Hal. This has been one of the most civil threads on MC.com on a divided issue. Some really good ideas here.

If we can, as a country acknowledge that each person has a "right" to the fears,concerns or beliefs they posess then hopefully we can find ways to get around those and get something done.

I believe that as Americans we have the "right to bear arms". It doesn't say I have the right to hunt. So if I don't hunt I can still own weapons.
"Being necessary to the security of a free state" It is possible that the overpowering government is is what we need to be kept free from.

Others believe that the government really is "here to help". I have to be sensitive to that belief and figure out a way to get a solution without stomping down or berating that belief.
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Posted by Cactus Plains (+97) 8 years ago
American never turn your guns in ... NEVER!

Communist Nazis turn your guns in Now! ... to the local Sheriff ... Now ... before it is too late! God does not like you destroying the planet with your sterlized bull poop!

Ewe are the criminals, liars, and deceivers who infiltrate the MEDIA with disinformation to facilitate the Nazis WW111 ... the UN NATO war on the Americans ... which started with the shot that hurt around the world ... 1954 ...

Rocky MT Oysters forever

Cactus Plains
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+9922) 8 years ago
If we can, as a country acknowledge that each person has a "right" to the fears,concerns or beliefs they posess then hopefully we can find ways to get around those and get something done.

Yup. Somehow we have to find a way to hold a civil dialog about the issues confronting our Nation and People. We complain about gridlock in Congress, I'm thinking the only cure for that is breaking though the gridlock on Main Street. We really need to learn how to talk with one another - shouting doesn't seem to be working ; -)
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
European Newspapers are talking about the U.S. Gun Issues and ways we are moving closer and closer to Gun Control:
[url}http://www.eutimes.net/2013/01/obama-death-squads-kill-top-gun-activists-as-new-massacre-fears-rise/[/url]
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
When I first started reading this article I thought it was like the papers at the checkout stand, and it probably is. But I googled these guys and the article is factual, at least about the deaths.
I still think it is coincidental but it makes you wonder.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
Cheryl. Are you procreateing kidding?!
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+613) 8 years ago
Care to revisit that first assumption, boxedmc?
http://www.splcenter.org/...s-website/
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 8 years ago
No Joe. I'll stand by my previous comments. I said 2 promiment gun guys died and they did.

When I first started reading this article I thought it was like the papers at the checkout stand, and it probably is. But I googled these guys and the article is factual, at least about the deaths.
I still think it is coincidental but it makes you wonder.


[This message has been edited by boxdmc (1/15/2013)]
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Posted by war61 (+13) 8 years ago
this was interesting was in the comments from an earlier post.

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Columbine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado), killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing themselves. Klebold's medical records have never been made available to the public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his grandfather, his grandfather's girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake, Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state) High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2 classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher, and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs) from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) - school shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide - hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara's parents said ".. the damn doctor wouldn't take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to Paxil.")

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil when he committed suicide in 2002,
(Gareth's father could not accept his son's death and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family's detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his 5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was taking Zoloft and "other drugs for the conditions."

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more at Jokela High School - then he committed suicide.
Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression, fired a shotgun at a teacher in his
New York high school.

Missing from list. 3 of 4 known to have taken these same meds..

What drugs was Jared Lee Loughner on, age 21.. killed 6 people and injuring 14 others in Tuscon, Az

What drugs was James Eagan Holmes on, age 24... killed 12 people and injuring 59 others in Aurora Colorado

What drugs was Jacob Tyler Roberts on, age 22, killed 2 injured 1, Clackamas Or

What drugs was Adam Peter Lanza on, age 20, Killed 26 and wounded 2 in Newtown Ct
Roberts is the only one that I haven't heard about being on drugs of some kind.


So is it the guns gun owners or meds??????????????
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
The guy who originally brought this up was killed last Thursday.

http://www.naturalnews.co...crash.html

Things that make you go Hmmmmmm......



[This message has been edited by Cheryl Pieters (1/16/2013)]
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supporter
Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Ain't karma a biotch?
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supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
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supporter
Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I still prefer to think it was some otherworldly power bitch slapping him into the great beyond.
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supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Oh, my link was for the alex jones fellators above, not you Buck.
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moderator
founder
Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
"According to the Outdoor Wire, his car "traveled across the oncoming lane onto the dirt highway shoulder until it struck two large boulders. The vehicle rolled and Mr. Noveske was ejected."

Apparently he was sticking it to the man by not wearing his seatbelt. "You can't tell me what to do!" (Splat)
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supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Ralph Nader was a mason, therefore seatbelts are tools of the illuminati.
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supporter
Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Oh I know, but I'd like to think the relationship between his death and his online post was causal, just not the same cause Cheryl hopes.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
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supporter
Posted by Kelly (+2706) 8 years ago
Guns
Over
People
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
I think we can make America a lot safer by taking away THOSE people's guns, because they obviously can't be trusted with them.


Interesting! Sounds a lot like words that have resonated through history before. How soon some forget!
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+140) 8 years ago
When I first started reading this article I thought it was like the papers at the checkout stand, and it probably is. But I googled these guys and the article is factual, at least about the deaths.
I still think it is coincidental but it makes you wonder.

Considering that there is other evidence that Obama has been using the provisions of the NDAA that he promised he wouldn't, and considering that E. Holder (person of interest in BATFE Agent deaths) has stated that it is Legal for Obama to execute American Citizens "even" on foreign soil, should be a big hint as to what the truth is.
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Posted by Richard Nielsen (+11) 8 years ago
Not true, liberal fluff. Transactions at gun shows from any licenced dealer requires a background check. Get your facts straight Joe.
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supporter
Posted by howdy (+4944) 8 years ago
Dealer yes perhaps, but there are many private folks at gun shows selling weapons without a license and they aren't required to get a background check...do your research, Mr. Nielsen...

http://www.governing.com/...s-map.html

[This message has been edited by howdy (4/1/2013)]
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