No easy solutions
Posted by Steve Allison (+981) 8 years ago
When it comes to insane people shooting children in schools, more guns will not solve the problem. Less guns will not solve it either. The problem is much more complicated then that. Finding a solution will take hard, hard, hard, work and big changes that no one wants to make.
Finding a workable solution will take a group of three types of people working together to find. One third of the people should be professionals in mental health, law enforcement and running schools. They are needed to provide information and a real view of how ideas would or would not work in the real world. One third need to be conservatives so they can protect gun rights as much as possible, keep costs down and other aspects of their point of view. The last third needs to be liberals. They can after the rights of the children and those who the resulting laws might run over.They need to all work together, come up with a plan, try it refine it, try that, refine that and so on until a solution is found.
But this will never happen with everyone screaming loudly simple solutions that reflect their personal agendas. So kiss your children and tell them that you love them before they head off to school then pray to God that they come home safely that night.

[This message has been edited by Steve Allison (12/30/2012)]
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
What about parents working together to bring up well adjusted, well educated, emotionally stable, physically fit children of good character and decent morals?
Too much work.
Believe me.
Expensive, too.
Never mind, it's the government's job.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I nominate Jeff Denton for Person of the Year!
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
May I respectfully decline the nomination, unless it pays well, enough to cover my bar tabs, drug addictions, alimonies, illegit child supports, probation costs, political contributions and tithe. But then would I still be eligible for all the welfare and aid I presently receive in three states?
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
It's possible to be "Parent of the Year" and still end up with a sick kid, Jeff.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Parent of the Year should be one who passed the test given on day one of a parenting class we took at our school years ago. I failed it because of questions that checked my need for it. The question was "Do you ever feel you need outside help raising your child?" The only proper answer is YES and the class proves it and makes sure you know when and where to ask for it.
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 8 years ago
A child can be born with a mental illness more often than not...and no amount of proper parenting can change that...all you can do is keep taking them to docs for the proper help and meds...many folks cannot afford that due to no health care insurance...
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
If your child is mentally ill, just as if it is physically ill, no amount of 'good parenting' will compensate for illness. Wonderful, caring parents work very hard to raise healthy children but if that child has a disease, more than wonderful, caring parenting is needed.

Good parenting doesn't cure cancer. Nor does it cure a myriad of mental illnesses.

Lousy parents can have good kids. Good parents can have lousy kids.
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Posted by Oddjob (+194) 8 years ago
"It's possible to be "Parent of the Year" and still end up with a sick kid"

Absolutely true. However this situation does not absolve the parent(s) from their obligation of doing everything they can to keep lil' junior from becoming a homicidal maniac. Keeping a pile of accessible guns in the house while you are taking your sweet-ass time, working on getting a seriously mentally ill child committed just seems like bad parenting to me.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Excellent, we're getting a good start. Identify the need for help, and seek it. But don't make excuses for why you didn't. Next thing you know it's too late. It is too late when a public school official demands that you get that kid to a shrink. He's a pro; he's seeing what you ignored or mistreated for years. Good parenting includes sacrificing anything, everything, even your pride, for your children. I learned that the worst thing you can say is "Well that's the way I was brought up..." How is anything gonna change and get better, adapt to the times, with an attitude like that?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
So running laps would or wouldn't have prevented the recent tragedy? I'm getting confused.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Good Question. Who knows? But I do know some kids with problems who have done better with less mothering/smothering and more redirection with enhanced physical activity. There just might be something to it, sometimes. I hope that the latest monster from CT's story is well studied and shared, we might learn from it in the long run.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Are you aware how incredibly difficult and incredibly expensive it is to have a child with serious mental illness committed and/or properly cared for? There are parents who have broken themselves financially and emotionally caring for their children but, as a society, we don't give them much support.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Throw some numbers out. Teach us something here. This is about possible answers, there are already plenty of questions. A few minutes ago I was reminiscing about a kid I tried to help once, his step dad needed him to get off the video games and into a sport. He had great natural talent and perfect physical ability but refused to accept authority and take advice. He got kicked off the team for refusing to dress out for school PE. Recently he didn't do well at Rimrock. I failed. They failed. Everybody failed. No easy solutions.
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Posted by Steve Allison (+981) 8 years ago
My point, shouting 'good parenting is all we need' is avoiding the problem again. How do we, as a society define good parenting, what do we do if someone is not providing it, how do we tell if they are not providing it. We all feel we know the answers but how do you put it into an enforceable law that can help prevent tragedies in the future? Everyone screams easy talking points but no one wants to actually do the hard work of finding solutions.
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Posted by Jade S (+153) 8 years ago
I won't get into the gun debate, but I will throw some numbers out there regarding our mentally ill child and the cost of his healthcare.

First six months of his life, to include hospital stay, assorted drug withdrawal treatments, cost of special-needs adoption:
$375,000

We were ill-prepared by county agency and ended up filing bankruptcy. Child was Medicaid eligible, but we agreed to provide insurance. His condition was considered pre-existing and we were denied coverage, therefore responsible for the bill.

We paid for various treatments, PT, OT, Speech Therapy, Neuro Biofeedback, etc, out-of-pocket until he turned ten. Approximate costs $75,000. He had other care plans that were covered by insurance.

At age ten he suffered a stroke. The positive: Now his therapy was covered under our insurance. His new medication, however, was not. $750/month from age 10-16.

Feeding tube insertion and one year supply of formula: $28, 000. Our insurance reimbursed us their allowable amount (2,700).
We took out a second mortgage and paid it off with our early retirement advance.

The past two years we have chosen to replace his expensive non-covered medication with one that is less reliable, but on our pharmacy benefit. We still have expenses in excess of $5,000/year. We are still insured, thankfully.

There are no easy answers.
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Posted by SD (+1525) 8 years ago
All you can do is try to set an example. Some humans,children and adults are more resilient than others. Some just plain snap. It could be their environment it could be many things.

When someone is involuntarily committed , the treatment is very expensive , if the parents or a private party are paying , it will break them. If the government is paying they almost hit the wrong side of the revolving door while heading in.

Many people used to be locked up for being mentally ill , and it seems to be a big secret in the US.

Letting them out was the right thing.

But then many could not take care of themselves , and some ended up being violent. We are seeing a generation that have not been locked up and they really do not have , thinking for the right words and they escape me , what they need.

Simply put and not to offend anyone , some people just can`t be fixed. Then what?

The criminal justice system with their abuse? The taxpayers on a budget that does not have the money for these people? Relatives who are trying to have a life of their own? Maybe someone who trys to take care of the person by themself because of fears of abuse? How many here remember someone in a family who just was not seen , kept out of sight. Then if they went away they never came back until their funeral.

Tack on to this people who fear the government because of what they have done to some of these people. They have mistrust for the government to begin with , they are not going to let them take a loved one away.

Then you have people that say the above mentioned people should not have guns but they have armed guards but it is them being protected so it is OK. Hollywood is a good example. Being sent to rehab for whatever reason(s) how many times but they should still have any and all private soldiers and weapons at their disposal. Kennedy was terrible for this. His bodyguards had full auto machine guns but the common person should not have firearms. Many politicians think the same way. Guns are to protect ME , ---- not you little people.

It seems there is not going to be a solution. Many people are going continue to suffer.

But there are ideas. This country was founded on ideas.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Letting them out was the right thing.

Leaving them to fend for themselves was not.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
+1,000 to Bridgier.

The idea was close the big institutions and put the mentally ill in smaller facilities near their families. Once politicians saw how much they saved by closing big institutions, they decided to save even more and not open small facilities.

Which is why we have such a large population of the mentally ill living on the streets. Your tax dollars have been saved. Rah-rah.
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Posted by SD (+1525) 8 years ago
Brigidare

Maybe you did not notice my next sentence. Or perhaps my post was just more than you are able to absorb and comprehend.

Find one thing , blow it out of proportion because you have no ideas or any original thoughts of your own and try to participate while bringing nothing to the table.

That trait amounst some humans in itself is part of what will impede any attempt at progress not only on this discussion nationally but in your own life.

And Ammorette

These people were released by the Supreme Court. Do some research.

[This message has been edited by SD (1/3/2013)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
I'm pretty sure what I wrote and what you wrote are not mutually exclusive. Question begging and false dichotomies are not worth a cookie, nor a pat on the back or whatever it is you want.

We can always find the money to blow up brown people, but social services for the poors? They just can't be fixed.

We choose to let them out, and we choose to not provide funding for necessary services, just as we chose to spend money to invade Iraq (twice) and Afghanistan.
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Posted by Lorin Dixson (+596) 8 years ago
These people were released by the Supreme Court. Do some research.
At the behest of the Reagan admin.
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+613) 8 years ago
To those desperately bird-dogging this discussion toward mental illness and away from illegally-obtained and/or grotesquely modified firearms so as to avoid any progress toward sensible gun legislation, I have to ask: Are you really prepared to deny that, under a tragic set of circumstances, you're incapable taking your own life or that of another, assuming a loaded firearm is within reach?

If so, then you're a liar - either consciously or unconsciously. That's the problem with these lame "good guy/bad guy" justifications of Wayne LaPierre and other gun rights absolutists. Every person is a potential killer. The most dangerous ones among us are those who deny that fact with the greatest conviction. Both parties to a violent encounter are sure to believe without a doubt that the other guy was the "bad guy".

Scapegoat the mentally ill, if you must, and convince yourself that mental illness lies at the heart of American violence but know also that attempting to make that argument in the face of contrary numbers is an indication of, well, mental incapacity. Statistically, mental illness is a factor in only 4% of all U.S. violence while firearms are a factor in 100% of gun deaths and injury and a new Texas A&M study comparing gun violence in states with "stand your ground" laws vs. those without has determined that the former have experienced 7-9% higher homicide rates than the latter. It's the guns, Stupid.

http://mobile.nytimes.com...debate.xml

http://www.npr.org/2013/0...n-homicide

[This message has been edited by Joe Whalen (1/3/2013)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
It seems to me that this should be a both/and rather than an either/or discussion, Joe. It's both guns and mental health, not that you were implying that the mental health isn't important.

We must come to grips with the fact that we are a society where a large portion of our economic system is based on the manufacture and deployment of a wide array of "gunware", small and large, and this fact is both a mental health issue and a gun issue. It is hard to convince people that on a local level, they should try peace, when as a nation we can always seem to find more money to build more advanced "gunware" to kill brown people in other parts of the world. Recognizing that Wall St is making big money on killing "brown people"; that the price of oil is based on the status of our military efforts against the "brown people"; that a huge segment of our economy is vested in the military-industrial complex etc.; is both a gun-culture and mental health issue, and is the first step in changing the culture.

We have a complex issue on our hands. And while there are no easy solutions, we need to make the effort to have the discussions that will bring about the change we desperately need. The first step is admitting that as a nation were are a procreateing bunch of crazies.
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Posted by Georgina Phipps (+21) 8 years ago
1.Thank God you are not still the worst mayor in MC history you left wing SOB. Or you would try to make your own gun laws in MC.
You think you are so smart with all your big words and speeches and not to mention own agendas AKA thanks for the flood insurance D BAG.
2.You should move your butt back to your home land of anti-freedom state of Cali.
3.People from MT. do not want to listen to the crap that just came out of your mouth we will keep our guns and our freedoms just the same as we have for hundreds of years no matter how many people like you move into our state.
4.Thank God for the NRA and the people that were trying to come up with good ideas to this problem we are having in this country with mental people shooting up our schools.
5.People like you just jump and say take the guns and it will fix the problem not so fast guy. The sick and bad people and the Goverment will still kill and steal and we the people will be the ones that can not defend themselves.
6.A unarmed country is subject to what ever agenda the rest of the world chooses and that is not freedom. God Bless America.
Ben Phipps
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Posted by pc (+123) 8 years ago
Joe, from your article...

How effective are laws that prohibit people with mental illness from obtaining guns? According to Dr. Swanson's recent research, these measures may prevent some violent crime. But, he added, "there are a lot of people who are undeterred by these laws."

More gun laws aren't going to magically stop the lawless from breaking the law.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3245) 8 years ago
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead"~~~~~~Thomas Paine
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Posted by Diane Emeney (+492) 8 years ago
Since people were able to still kill each other before the invention of guns, I'm pretty sure taking them away would not stop the killing. It would however make the innocent much more vulnerable to being killed. Guns are also used to hunt and feed people's families and to prevent predators from taking livestock. It's used to put an animal out of its misery when they can't be saved. Guns are a weapon but they are also a tool. Tools in the right hand can be utilized and better our way of life, in the wrong hand...any tool is capable of killing.
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Posted by cj sampsel (+479) 8 years ago
Georgiana,
I'm tired of people,right and left-usually the right, speaking for me. Speak for yourself, NOT THE PEOPLE OF MONTANA. I hunt and I shoot but I don't want or need 30 round clips, assault weapons etc
to do these things.
To reiterate my statment. Don't anyone else speak for me. I don't speak for you.
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Posted by Steve Allison (+981) 8 years ago
Here we go again, too many guns, not enough guns in the right hands, too little mental health, too much bad parenting. No ONE thing is the problem. They all contribute and need to be looked at all together if you want to find a real answer and not just promote your own agenda.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
We're only four days in, but it looks like we've got our first nominee for Post of the Year. The 2012 champ was Bridgier's post regarding Kacey's employment at Warm Springs.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
My proposed solution is a simple one: Public Gun Boxes.

Just like we have fire extinguishers and AEDs (defibrillators) prominently posted in public places we should have gun boxes with loaded firearms inside. In the event of an emergency you break the glass, pull out a loaded firearm, and blaze away.

These gun boxes would be located in public places like school hallways, court houses, city halls, shopping malls, etc.

You think, "Well some bad guy would use one of those guns to do bad things." But 150 feet or so down the hall would be another gun box and some do-gooder could use that gun to stop the evil-doer. No evil-doer would dare risk it with all those public gun boxes so accessible.

I know, it's brilliant. Wayne LaPierre (and Ben Phipps) likes the way I think.
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Posted by Jimmie (+61) 8 years ago
we will keep our guns and our freedoms


Convicted felons can keep their guns now?
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Posted by ike eichler (+1226) 8 years ago
Joe,

"Statcistically, mental illness is a factor in only 4% of all U.S. violence, while firearms are a factor in 100% of gun deaths and injury" Duh Good reporting to keep us all informed!! Who would have believed it? Thanks
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Posted by SD (+1525) 8 years ago
1 Question David.

What would keep the wrong person(s) people(s) whatever you want to call them from taking the guns from the gun boxes and selling them. Or using them. There are entrepreneurs out there you know.....

Maybe the talk is now more toward looking at mental illnes and other factors because the gun arguement has become trite.

Look at the movies and the video games. The person who has the most exotic looking weapons and kills the most people wins. And they manufacture "toys" and movie props so realistic many people cannot tell the difference.--reference david gregory and ammorette`s comments here.

Look how much trouble parents had with their children trying to imitate power rangers , mutant ninja turtle and I don`t know the rest of them.

Look at the occult that is steadily creeping in to children`s shows and the acceptance adults have for the occult. Use Smurfs as a reference.

Look at the stats by the government that say more people are murdered in the US every year by PEOPLE using Hammers than PEOPLE using RIFLES. Next study maybe could be the state of the mind of these people and if they were professionally trained as carpenters.

Yeah , this is an easy one. Especially in a society that wants everything given to them right now not only for free but does not want to give anything up.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I'm with you. Outlaw the Smurfs. The Smurfs are garbage.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
It's the lead the greatest generation put into the environment: http://www.motherjones.co...k-gasoline
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
How come we cannot have a RATIONAL and INTELLECTUAL discussion about guns and gun rights in this country?

How come there is no "I like this idea" or "this a worthy thought" or "we've always done it this way and things still suck, why don't we discuss other options"?

Instead, people scream "2ND AMENDMENT", clutching to a sacred cow instead of having an honest discussion. (And along that line, why, of all the Amendments to the Constitution, is the 2nd one such a sacred cow? There have been TONS of changes to the Constitution over the years... why is the discussion of the 2nd so verboten??)

I'm not expecting people to agree 100%: but why is the discussion forbidden? "Ain't taking our guns, you commie!" vs "let's brainstorm and see if we can all come up with a BETTER way".

Is this controversy a true litmus test of how closed-minded this populace really is; that they cannot even participate in a discussion? Sad.
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Posted by Mary B. (+202) 8 years ago
you left wing SOB


I'm not sure of the wisdom in alienating a portion of your customer base in a small town like Miles City, just because you disagree with their politics. It seems short-sighted to me, but at least you've let those looking for contractors know how you really feel.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
SD wrote:
"What would keep the wrong person(s) people(s) whatever you want to call them from taking the guns from the gun boxes and selling them."

What do you do about theft of fire extinguishers and AEDs, SD? It's just part of the cost of doing business. Freedom and safety aren't free. Besides, a few more guns out there is for the better. Maybe "John Doe" needed a gun at home to be safe so he stole one from a public gun box. Once the public gun box is restocked, we're all safer because we still have that gun box plus now "John" has a gun at home.

But, yeah, this theft thing could cause gun boxes to be empty in an emergency so perhaps the federal government could award a free firearm for each federal tax return filed. Married, filing jointly? Receive his and hers handguns (or his and his or hers and hers, as the case may be today). This could cut down on the theft problem and, again, the more guns in circulation the safer we all are.

Oh, and that crap about convicted felons not being allowed to own firearms has got to go. Convicted felons can be thought of as our first line of defense. They often have more experience handling firearms in dangerous and stressful situations. They often have proven themselves to be willing to use a firearm against a fellow man. They aren't quivering pansies like, well, like those stupid six-year-olds who just hid in the closet waiting to be slaughtered like little lambs.

Here, his and hers handguns:

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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Make sure you get the cop-killing bullets and the grip that doesn't take fingerprints!

We accept limits on the first amendment. We should accept limits on the second.
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Posted by ike eichler (+1226) 8 years ago
Amorette,

You have watched to many movies and TV. The truth being there is no so called "Cop Killing" bullet. Any regular bullet could kill a cop, or anyone else for that manner, The 60 minute segment and the Mel Gibson movie perpetuated that myth.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Do you think it's possible for our Government to conduct a False Flag operation along the same lines as Great Britain and Nazi Germany in order to push gun control?

http://www.sandyhookhoax.com/

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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago


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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
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Posted by pc (+123) 8 years ago
There already are limits to the 2nd.

[This message has been edited by pc (1/4/2013)]
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Posted by Mary B. (+202) 8 years ago
For poop sake, Cheryl, this is beyond contemptible, even in light of your usual drivel. We wonder why U.S. kids continue to slide down the ladder compared to their world peers. We fill their heads with this kind of crap.
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Posted by pc (+123) 8 years ago
Hannah-

Okay, let's be rational. What changes would you like to see made to the 2nd Amendment and why?
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
We petition the Obama Administration to:

Publicly release all videos and information surrounding the school shooting in Newtown CT to clear up conflicting info.
Publicly release all videos and information surrounding the investigation into the Sandy Hook school shooting. There have been conflicting reports both in the main stream media and independent media. These conflicting reports need to be cleared up before you pass any legislation that may infringe on our second amendment rights as a result of the shooting.

https://petitions.whiteho...g/7DC8Dq04
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
@pc--

I would just like to have a rational conversation (as others above me have attempted to do) regarding guns in America; a rational discussion with folks who actually want POSITIVE ACTION.

This aversion to the concept of we can try to make things better, seems so irrational to me. Obviously, the existing system doesn't work-- acknowledge and agree that the discussion needs to happen (minus the name-calling, the sacred cows, the "we've always done it this way", and any other circuitous arguments).

I have thoughts and ideas... and they are multifaceted: some gun control, adjustments to mental health costs and stigma, some administration adjustments. (But it should be obvious that some people in this thread cannot handle the multifaceted approach, or ANY approach that does not sync 100% with their agenda).

@CherylPieters

These claims of "actors" in the Sandy Hook tragedy has been dis-proven over and over (by news reports featuring the Phelps family and their VERY REAL LOSS-- including our own Billings Gazette). Your posts in this thread are FILTH. They do a disservice and are beyond insulting to the families who LOST THEIR CHILDREN AND LOVED ONES. Your behavior in the posts above is reprehensible.

Take this opportunity and publicly apologize for insulting these families.

(Here is just a small list of ALL your rumors put to rest --for those who like to research before posting filth online--: http://www.snopes.com/pol...ewtown.asp)
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
An additional avenue for apology, Cheryl Pieters, you can send a direct apology and sympathy card to:

Messages of Condolence for Newton
PO Box 3700
Newton, CT 06470

This is a special account set up by the USPS.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 8 years ago
+1000 for Hannah.

Consider your battleship sunk, Cheryl.

Well, it's more a garbage scow than a "battleship," but the hull-popping can be heard from here nonetheless.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
A Little Gun History
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control.

From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

http://rense.com/general9...story.html
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
How come we cannot have a RATIONAL and INTELLECTUAL discussion about guns and gun rights in this country?

SATSQ: Because there are too many people in the US who masturbate to Guns and Ammo
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 8 years ago
Cheryl - Do you have any thoughts of your own that you would like to share with us, or are you incapable of articulating something that's not copied and pasted from some ready-made right wing hack depository?

If it doesn't distract you too greatly from your pistol-fellating, would you be so kind as to tell me why the examples set by such countries as Australia, Japan, Canada and Great Britain - peace-loving capitalist democracies one and all - are such an anathema to you?
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Posted by ike eichler (+1226) 8 years ago
Mary B,

To put things in perspective, very few kids fill their heads with this kind of crap. Rather they fill their heads with social media, video games, movies, tv, I pods, et al. The Electronic generation if you will. Look there for any decline.
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Posted by Mary B. (+202) 8 years ago
Ike, you imply that the countries who outrank us do not have access to these exact things. A perusal of the countries that outperform us would prove you wrong.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
I am shocked, SHOCKED!!! that Ike would suggest that these kids these days just need to get off his lawn and go back to listening to morally pure musical acts such as Chuck Berry or Bill Hailey.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Russian Pravda: Americans-never give up your guns

These days, there are few few things to admire about the socialist, bankrupt and culturally degenerating USA, but at least so far, one thing remains: the right to bare arms and use deadly force to defend one's self and possessions.

This will probably come as a total shock to most of my Western readers, but at one point, Russia was one of the most heavily armed societies on earth. This was, of course, when we were free under the Tsar. Weapons, from swords and spears to pistols, rifles and shotguns were everywhere, common items. People carried them concealed, they carried them holstered.

This well armed population was what allowed the various White factions to rise up, no matter how disorganized politically and militarily they were in 1918 and wage a savage civil war against the Reds. It should be noted that many of these armies were armed peasants, villagers, farmers and merchants, protecting their own. If it had not been for Washington's clandestine support of and for the Reds, history would have gone quite differently.

Moscow fell, for example, not from a lack of weapons to defend it, but from the lieing guile of the Reds. Ten thousand Reds took Moscow and were opposed only by some few hundreds of officer cadets and their instructors. Even then the battle was fierce and losses high. However, in the city alone, at that time, lived over 30,000 military officers (both active and retired), all with their own issued weapons and ammunition, plus tens of thousands of other citizens who were armed. The Soviets promised to leave them all alone if they did not intervene. They did not and for that were asked afterwards to come register themselves and their weapons: where they were promptly shot.



http://english.pravda.ru/...ns_guns-0/
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
This was, of course, when we were free under the Tsar


Just think - In America, crazy paranoids like Cheryl can legally purchase firearms. If that's not an argument for gun safety legislation, I'm not sure what is.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/4/2013)]
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I've got a riddle!

Place the following in numeric order based on whose life is of the greatest value, 1 being the highest:

- Wrongly accused murderer
- Afghani Muslim
- Unborn child who will become next Albert Einstein
- Unborn child who will become next Paris Hilton
- Afghani Muslim member of Al-Qaeda
- Victim of Newton massacre
- Rightly accused murderer
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Everyone knows that the first entry on your list is a myth, and that #2 and #5 are a distinction without difference.

DON'T ANSWER IT CHERYL IT'S A TARP!!!
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
+100 to Bridgier for the Star Wars reference.

And considering the continued barrage of inappropriate propaganda and filth, I'm guessing Cheryl isn't going to apologize for her mistreatment of the Sandy Hook victims and their families and loved ones.

*sigh* You give someone the opportunity to be a decent human being...
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Ten gun bills on Congress's first day

Members of the 113th Congress introduced 10 bills on Thursday relating to gun violence, most of which came from Democrats seeking new restrictions on gun ownership.

The flurry of legislative proposals show that members are likely to push the issue in the wake of the December shooting at a Connecticut elementary school that left 20 children dead.

http://thehill.com/blog...2H36zXi40
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
You can lead a sheeple to facts but you can't make him think.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6014) 8 years ago
"If only Brandon Patch had been armed with a 9mm, he'd still be alive today." - Cheryl Pieters, August, 2003.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Well Buck, I think we have another nominee...
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Agreed. "AKA thanks for the flood insurance D BAG." Doesn't make me feel like I'm rubbing one out while Jesus watches, though.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
The recent Sandy Hook murder official account is such a mess of contradictions that only the aspartame stoned couch potatoes actually believe that a single autistic child could have carried out all those murders. Early news reports quote a principle who is later listed as "killed," describe multiple gun-men etc. The dead children are never shown and the bodies vanish to God knows where. There has been so much good research done on this false flag killing by others that this murderous incident is not going to be buried.

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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
quick... BAN HAMMERS and FISTS! They kill more people than semiautomatic sporting rifles. </hysteria>

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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Ho. Lee Hell.

Get help now.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
All those in favor of denying Cheryl the right to own firearms on the grounds that she is mentally ill, say "Aye."

"Aye!"
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
I think it's probably better if we all back away very slowly and quietly. No sudden movements.
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 8 years ago
Aye
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17343) 8 years ago
SATSQ: Because there are too many people in the US who masturbate to Guns and Ammo


I have noticed while drinking beer and on the computer, I have occasionally glanced up at the wall in my den and have noticed my SKS winking at me from the gun rack.

That's when I know its time to shut down and go to bed.
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
@CherylPieters

Please get the help you need. This is a sincere request to please seek counseling for yourself and your deluded and paranoid thinking.

The fact that you cannot recognize the tragedy and LOSS of young lives and adult educators indicates a severe lack of empathy that I really don't understand. Your behavior is hateful and needs to stop.

Again, please, seek help.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
@Hannah Nash

I'll take that as an "Aye".
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 8 years ago
Well this thread got hopelessly spaghetti but it's probably not too late to wonder how things are going for the Steubensville High School football team today. I think when you take a good look at that situation you'll start to wonder if we aren't closing in on what the hell is wrong with America these days.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17343) 8 years ago
You people are all aspartame-stoned couch potatoes.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
The woman who is apparently the same person involved in both he Sandy Hook and Aurora shootings, is identified as the crisis actor, Jennifer Greenberg-Sexton. Her Grandfather is Maurice Geenberg, former CEO of AIG.
http://wellaware1.com/gif...green.html

click the picture so it gets bigger. Then scroll to the left down corner.

The couple at the table is the exact same couple as in the above video( from 01:35 on). They are named differently. Thus they are acting.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 8 years ago
Aye, aye!

What makes me laugh is that these conspiracy nuts believe that the U.S. government has the brains to orchestrate these elaborate schemes.

Could someone post a photo of Cheryl so I know who to avoid when I visit Miles City? I'm joking. Please don't post any photos.
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Posted by Georgina Phipps (+21) 8 years ago
To Jimmie
(So felons can have guns now.)
You should Google big bore air rifles, and you will have the answer to your question.
Ben Phipps
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Posted by Georgina Phipps (+21) 8 years ago
Mary B (Calling Joe an SOB and a DBAG.)
So I was to harsh on Joe and should not have used that type of abbreviations on him. Sorry Joe I like my flood insurance.
Ben Phipps

[This message has been edited by Georgina Phipps (1/4/2013)]

[This message has been edited by Georgina Phipps (1/4/2013)]
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 8 years ago
Someone shot the cast of SNL?

wtf?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
That website that CP loves so much also claims that Adolf Hitler and Walt Disney were both fakes who were really Teddy Roosevelt's son, Kermit.

If that ain't crazy, then there ain't no crazy!

How about we start this thread over and try to get a realistic discussion going about the appalling amount of gun violence in this country.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (1/5/2013)]
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
ILLINOIS HOLDING SECRET VOTE ON STATE WIDE GUN CONFISCATION - RIGHT NOW, SUNDAY 1/5/13 AT 5 PM CENTRAL TIME

http://www.secretsofthefe...tral-time/
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
This disturbing video clearly demonstrates the consequences of centralizing government power and disarming citizens. Genocide always follows, leaving millions of innocent victims dead.

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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
You mean there's going to be a mass tittie-grab!?
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Biden Says Obama Considering Gun Control By Executive Order
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
http://www.libertynews.co...der-video/
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 8 years ago
Oh my God! Here it comes! Run! Hide!
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+797) 8 years ago
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYE AYE ,AYE, YI,YI,YIIIIII!!!! Cheryl you can have your guns, but Like Barney Fife, You' ll have to keep you one(allowed )bullet in your pocket.
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Posted by David Schott (+17069) 8 years ago
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
I love Barney Fife!
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+797) 8 years ago
Thanks, Dave. I JUST WASTED TWO HOURS WATCHING OLD EPISODES!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Two hours watching The Andy Griffith Show is NEVER wasted, especially if it is a good Barney episode. Or the one with the exploding goat. I LOVE the exploding goat!
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Sandy Hook fundraising relief page created 3 days before shooting, Google search results confirm

As of the time of this writing, if you search on Google for the URL of the United Way Sandy Hook fundraising page (see instructions, below), you will get a Google search result saying the page was created on December 11, 2012.
What's so odd about that? The Sandy Hook shooting took place three days later, on December 14, 2012.


http://www.unhealthyearth...-page.html







[This message has been edited by Cheryl Pieters (1/11/2013)]
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Posted by Hannah Nash (+2495) 8 years ago
@Cheryl Pieters

The supposed "dates" that you are referring to in the Google search are not accurate. Google has already stated that regarding their algorithm.

Please stop insulting the families.
Please stop tarnishing their memories.
Stop propagating this false information; these lies only HURT already grieving families.
You have the power to be a decent human being.
Make the right choice. Make the compassionate choice.

Read the FACTS here: http://www.snopes.com/pol...own.asp#uw

Thank you!
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Posted by Lorin Dixson (+596) 8 years ago
Hannah You are wasting your time trying to educate CP. You are not going to make her stop believing crazy poop, because it is her right to believe crazy poop. And she is going to keep believing crazy poop. And again My wording will be corrected, I don't believe POOP is a strong enough word.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 8 years ago
Let's go back to Barney Fife. Much more pleasant topic than paranoid fantasies.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 8 years ago
This thread shouldn't die with 99 posts... so I'll make it 100 with this picture that speaks volumes.

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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17343) 8 years ago
Is Sandy Hook just a diversion from the real issue of the government manufacturing all of this "snow"?
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Posted by Chief No Talk (+11) 8 years ago
This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for hunting, this is for the nun.
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
Get off the purple koolaid (medications which dull your brains) and think for YOURSELVES unstead of letting the heavily controlled Mainstream Media companies tell you what to think.

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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+474) 8 years ago
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3245) 8 years ago
There must be another video of the endless funerals with sobbing people????
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+797) 8 years ago
Cheryl, Take some time out and watch some of the Barney Fife episodes that Dave Shott posted. Mentally healthy people incorporate humor and laughter into their lives. If you can't find any humor in Barney Fife you won't pass the mental health screening. If you can't laugh, then at least cry for the children.

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth Emilsson (1/14/2013)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9197) 8 years ago
Cheryl took us to task yesterday over my suggestion that she "take her meds", and so, after some thought, I think some clarification may be in order.

1) I used the term rather flippantly, and I think that probably does a disservice to people who are actually ON medication, by minimizing the actual good that these medications do in the lives of people, and by implying that only weird people need meds. If you need help, you should get help without having to worry that people are going to think less of you somehow. My comment didn't advance that vastly laudable public health goal, and that was wrong of me.

2) People should own the statements they make - Cheryl wants to own these, and I think we should let her. Implying that she was on medication allows us to believe that only someone who isn't mentally stable would believe and promote these things. That's a fiction that gives Cheryl too much credit. She believes these things, and demands that we acknowledge both her right to believe them AND her competency in doing so.

3) To which is say - fine. One doesn't need to be on meds or institutionalized to be a monster, no matter how much we want to believe this.

You don't NEED to be crazy to believe that the government is somehow running a false-flag operation to justify taking away all of these very very dangerous toys, you don't NEED to be crazy to cherry-pick a handful of incidents and call it proof that pharmaceuticals drive people to massacre random strangers.

All you NEED is a vast and empty void where most people have a modicum of empathy, and an equally vast conceit that the short side of an argument is the correct one, simply because you're not a big enough rube to fall for the big lie like everyone else.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/14/2013)]
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