So tired of the Forced Birthers.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9380) 9 years ago
It's probably wrong of me to wish they'd all get cancer and die, isn't it.

Overseas: http://www.cbsnews.com/83...c-country/
"Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby," he told The Irish Times in a telephone interview from Belgaum, southwest India. "When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning, Savita asked: `If they could not save the baby, could they induce to end the pregnancy?' The consultant said: `As long as there is a fetal heartbeat, we can't do anything."'

"Again on Tuesday morning ... the consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita said: "I am neither Irish nor Catholic," but they said there was nothing they could do," Praveen Halappanavar was quoted as saying.


Closer to home: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.g...MC2636458/
I'll never forget this; it was awful-I had one of my partners accept this patient at 19 weeks. The pregnancy was in the vagina. It was over. . And so he takes this patient and transferred her to [our] tertiary medical center, which I was just livid about, and, you know, "we're going to save the pregnancy." So of course, I'm on call when she gets septic, and she's septic to the point that I'm pushing pressors on labor and delivery trying to keep her blood pressure up, and I have her on a cooling blanket because she's 106 degrees. And I needed to get everything out. And so I put the ultrasound machine on and there was still a heartbeat, and [the ethics committee] wouldn't let me because there was still a heartbeat. This woman is dying before our eyes. I went in to examine her, and I was able to find the umbilical cord through the membranes and just snapped the umbilical cord and so that I could put the ultrasound-"Oh look. No heartbeat. Let's go." She was so sick she was in the [intensive care unit] for about 10 days and very nearly died. . She was in DIC [disseminated intravascular coagulopathy]. . Her bleeding was so bad that the sclera, the white of her eyes, were red, filled with blood. . And I said, "I just can't do this. I can't put myself behind this. This is not worth it to me." That's why I left.


I guess it's a cross I'll have to bear.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3269) 9 years ago
I saw that yesterday. So very primitive and so sad. Such a fight to keep from going back in time.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12107) 9 years ago
The description of the woman, in agony, begging for help, being ignored because a religion to which she didn't belong said she must suffer and die. Disgusting barely covers it.

They are aren't saving the life of the fetus. They knew the fetus was doomed. But they made her suffer and killed her because they wanted that fetus to last a few more days.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 9 years ago
Gee, and the Republicans want more God in our government. The Irish model must be their gold standard.
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+148) 9 years ago
Wendy, I would not call it a Republican thing, I've seen extremely religious Democrats who are just as heartless.

[This message has been edited by Donald Mullikin (11/20/2012)]
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Posted by howdy (+4952) 9 years ago
I have never met a Democrat that was anything but prochoice...so I vehemently disagree with you...there might be a few "nuts" here or there but certainly not like the republican party has in droves...To let a mother die just to let a fetus survive a few more days when it is obviously not going to live long is crazy and cruel...
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Posted by Elizabeth Emilsson (+793) 9 years ago
I have to agree with Howdy. no one has ever seen an democrat, that could be called heartless. That's why republican generally call us "bleeding heart liberals".

Although, raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans after listenin to all their whining and squealing, may be considered, 'heartless'.

[This message has been edited by Elizabeth Emilsson (11/21/2012)]
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Posted by Carrie Kauten (+406) 9 years ago
I, like most Christians, am very vehemently ProLife. But, I am also of the belief that if a woman is in agony, and the pregnancy is going to terminate anyway, why prolong her suffering, or endanger her life? I am not a Catholic, I feel that the Christianity branch of Catholocism is one of extremists. I also believe that we need to move with the times. I would rather have a woman seeking an abortion, for whatever reason, go to a medical professional within the 12 week time period, to have the procedure; than to send her to some butcher off the street that may end up killing her in the end as well as the baby. I also believe that each abortion should be done in a medical facility, following extreme cleanliness guidlines. That before an abortion is allowed to take place, that the mother have counseling and a mandatory ultrasound to determine the exact gestation. That every abortion clinic should have an adoption office in the facility, to offer options. That every girl under the age of 18 should require parental consent before the procedure is to take place. And, except in the case of rape, the biological father should have a say in the matter as well. I may be a Christian, and absolutely believe that abortion is murder, and wrong. I also understand that these are modern times and that if we are to prevent the needless deaths of countless women as well, we need to move with the times, and teach the ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy, as well as make birth control readily available to all who want or need it. I am a Christian, but I am also aware that most people view us as close minded hypocrites. I believe that if we are to show God's love and acceptance, we are to show that love and acceptance in our own actions.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15202) 9 years ago
As a christian you are entitled to your belief, but the bible doesn't support your postion. Thus, you thoughts are based only on your emotion and and not grounded in truth and reality.
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Posted by Carrie Kauten (+406) 9 years ago
What I'm trying to say, is that through education and prevention, abortion may not be such an issue. So many of these women feel that they have no other way out, no other option. Through ignorance, we recede back into the dark ages. Through education, we can become a better, more accepting society showing God's love of all his people, regardless of their sin. He says to love the sinner, and hate the sin. Not to condemn anyone that believes differently than we do. By doing that, we are no better than the extremist Muslim sect that is continuing to attack and kill anyone that believes differently than they do. This is NOT showing God's love, this is showing close-minded idiocy.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12107) 9 years ago
So many of the Pro-Fetus people are opposed to effective birth control. They don't want to stop abortions. They want to punish women for having non-procreative sex. The fetus is just the issue they focus on rather than admit they hate for woman (since men go unpunished) to have sex for any reason besides brood mare purposes. If you are truly in favor of the fetus, you should support honest and complete sex education and easy access to birth control and free medical care for women who want to have the baby.

If you listen closely, most of the Pro-Fetus folks never support those things.

As for ultrasound. . . a vaginal ultrasound is required for early gestation. Forcing a woman to have an object placed into her vagina against her will is rape. So let's toss the ultrasound thing.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15202) 9 years ago
Through education, we can become a better, more accepting society showing God's love of all his people, regardless of their sin. He says to love the sinner, and hate the sin.


Not in the bible. Sorry.
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Posted by howdy (+4952) 9 years ago
Carrie, it would be interesting to hear what you think is really in the bible vs what truly is in the bible...so many things pastors make up and give sermons on but they aren't in the bible...
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12107) 9 years ago
Jesus Christ had nothing to say about contraception or abortion or homosexuality. He did, however, very specifically forbid remarriage after a divorce.

Odd how the one thing he did say is ignored by everyone I know who considers themselves devout Christians, particularly those on second or third marriages. (Newt Gingrich, anyone.) Jesus didn't give exceptions or suggest certain forms to fill out. He just said, nope, no go. And is ignored.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15202) 9 years ago
Actually, we have no way of knowing if JC actully said that or not as it wasn't written down for at least 80 years after he died. Further, the happenings of the day are important to the context of the passage you are discussing.
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Posted by howdy (+4952) 9 years ago
wrong thread

[This message has been edited by howdy (11/25/2012)]
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12107) 9 years ago
Yeah, but the folks who are always quoting J.C. are sure he said this and that and the other thing that he didn't according to their magic book, but ignoring the things their book said he does say if it doesn't fit in with what they like.
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Posted by cj sampsel (+475) 9 years ago
Here's something that you can reply to the birthers that think every human conception is blessed by GOD. Only 25-30% of conceptions result in birth. That makes GOD the biggest abortionist of all.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9380) 9 years ago
And that does raise the point, that if each of these non-viable fetuses had a soul from conception forward, then heaven will be filled almost entirely with... zygotes.
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Posted by howdy (+4952) 9 years ago
Thanks Bridgier, as you have now taught me a new word...at my age to still be learning is a good thing to me....thanks again...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15202) 9 years ago
And let me help you, Howdy, by using that word in a sentence: Jesus will separate zygotes from zysheep.
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Posted by howdy (+4952) 9 years ago
ROFL Richard...You always can be punnier than anyone I have ever known...LOL
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12107) 9 years ago
Because taking the birth control pills reduces ovulation, it reduces the number of fertilized eggs that fail to implant. If every zygote is a person, taking birth control pills reduces the number of zygotes that are discarded by nature. Everyone who believes a zygote is person should be in favor of all women taking birth control pills.

Unless they have another, ulterior, motive.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9380) 9 years ago
NO SEXYTIME FOR THE WIMMINZ!!!!

(unless her husband wants to let her have some of course)

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (11/26/2012)]
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Posted by Donald Mullikin (+148) 9 years ago
Let me first ask that everyone understand that I am presently in College and can only sporadically post. I know it has been nearly two months since my prior post on this thread.


By Amorette Allison.. So many of the Pro-Fetus people are opposed to effective birth control. They don't want to stop abortions. They want to punish women for having non-procreative sex.


Which is why I was saying that both Republican and Democrats alike are heartless when it comes to this.

Which is more humane?

1) Force the victim of a rape to carry and have the baby that resulted from that hideous and violent criminal act.

2) Allow her to have an abortion, so that she is not reminded of that terrible encounter every day that she has morning sickness, the humiliation of never being able to be far from a WC due to the need of frequent urination, the agony of not being able to do all the things that she normally would, and then the pain of childbirth?

I know how I would feel if it were one of my daughters (or my granddaughter) who had been raped. I would support the decision of my kin even if it meant her killing the fetus child of the criminal, that I would be wanting to hand over to the legal authorities (with a preference to handing him over to the morgue) for legal disposal.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3269) 9 years ago
Opinions may be a "moot" point should Paul Ryan's "Fetal Right's Act' pass. The "Sanctity of Human Life Act" gives full LEGAL right to human ZYGOTES from the moment of fertilization. The bill specifies that a "one-celled Human Embryo", even before it implants in the uterus to create a pregnancy, should be granted "all the legal and constitutional attributes and personhood". They hope to criminalize abortion at all stages.

I am having to wonder how all of this would be policed?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 9 years ago
That's interesting. Wouldn't that mean that all those frozen embryos held at the fertility clinics would have to be implanted in wombs to be eventually born? How does one know if a zygote can pursue happiness in a cryogenic freezer? Can the fathers of these zygotes be forced to pay child support to help pay the costs of keeping them viable?

Sheesh . . . . .
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3269) 9 years ago
Great points. Just difficult to get worked up over issues that are really none of my business. I think the puzzle is that all of the laws they come up with must need policing or, why the law..so, that brings up...how?
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