BULLET PROOF VESTS FOR CCDHS
Posted by Chris Peterson (+159) 15 years ago
My daughter attends CCDHS...for now.
Assumption: I understand that on Tuesday, a student wishing to out do the murders in Virginia, was taken into custody for evaluation. I understand his hit list of 62 people had already been drafted, as well as detailed plans of his assault. He was back in school today...under house arrest??
If the above assumption is true, someone needs to lose their jobs. The person should NEVER be allowed to attend this school again. You think 'house arrest' is going to deter him? If my guess is correct, it may just make him even more determined. Are we just going to wait until we find a list with 124? And if the list is found after the fact, what then? Someone please enlighten me. Any body have the facts please share them. I will stop at nothing short of the Governor of Montana to get someones attention.
The following was written by my daughter who attends CCDHS:
I'm a student at CCDHS and I'm almost afraid to go to school on Monday. A kid, threatened to "shoot the school up" on Monday. He said he wanted to outdo the Virginia Tech guy by killing double what he did. He said this to a teacher, so they took him away to a psych ward in Billings according to people around school. He was gone for a day, and the next day, Thursday, he returned back to school. Why the hell would you let a kid threatening to kill people at the school back into the school and hes only on house arrest. School officials and police should not let this idiot back into our school. My parents are keeping me home Monday to ensure my safety, but what about the safety of everyone else? He should be put away right now, either in a mental health facility or jail. I'm recommending you keep your students home from school on Monday, whether he was kidding or not. Thats ridiculous that they let him back on school premises.

[This message has been edited by Chris Peterson (edited 4/20/2007).]
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12212) 15 years ago
Never mind.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (edited 4/20/2007).]
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Posted by Lori Barnett (+92) 15 years ago
I hear The kid is out ! Maybe Dad Has Way To Much Pull!
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Posted by Mr. Natural (+64) 15 years ago
Ya my heart goes out to Virginia Tech, but we can't live our lives in fear. It was a horrible thing that happened, but kids have to go to school. Home school your kid if you are that afraid. Granted the specific person shouldn't of made such comments, but he was dealed with. The world is filled with psychos and we can't hide from that fact. Kid's won't be any more safe no matter where they go to school. I trust that CCDHS does a great job in protecting the students.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15285) 15 years ago
Guess you never heard of Neal Zebroski.
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Posted by Patty O. (+218) 15 years ago
He was dealt with???? How is house arrest dealing with someone who is in need of help?? Even as a joke this is serious. He needs counseling before he is let back into school. I to have children in CCDHS and I don't think this is anything to take lightly. Yes the world is a dangerous place compared to 10 or so years ago. But it is our duty as parents and concerned people of this community to keep our children safe. We send our children to school to get an education not to fear the students in the school who make such threats even if it is a joke. I am disappointed in the way this has been handle myself. Parents should beinformed to any situation that puts the students at risk. We shouldn't wait until something terrible happens then think oh yeah we should have done something. I think we all should keep our children home on Monday nothing could happen that day but maybe the school will see how we expect our children to be safe at school. And to rethink the way this was handled.
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Posted by Shu (+1792) 15 years ago
Richard,

Neal Zabroski - I'm not positive about this, but was he that kid who kidnapped a couple Custer High students at gunpoint in, say, the mid-80's, and was intercepted by the police in front of the school trying to flee with the hostages by car?...correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, if memory serves he neither killed nor harmed anyone but still, you hate for anything like that to happen at all.

I can understand anyone's concern about so much as a threat of something like this - let's hope it's properly dealt with.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
CCDHS is not known for taking proper care of those who need mental help. There was a girl there who was walking around with a black back pack putting death curses on people including teachers. Their response was to do nothing because of who her mother was. Reality check for those with students at CCDHS. Demand your children be protected. And also that he get counseling other than in MC. There are too many close ties there and kids walk without the proper care they need.
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Posted by eeyoor (+47) 15 years ago
I think holding someone at gunpoint is danger to them mentally. A couple of my kids go to CCDHS and they have been told that when this kid sets his mind to something he does it, that makes me a little scared to send my kids to school this week as long as he is still there. I mean kids get suspended for having tabacco, or drug, and fighting but someone can threaten to kill people and just go right back to school, tell me whats wrong with that picture please.
I am very concerned about my childrens safty, this kid should be suspended and not allowed on the school property. Just my thoughts I guess.
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Posted by Patty O. (+218) 15 years ago
I would like to know if the school or police notified the parents of all the kids on his list. And what if any precautions the police dept. will be taking. I know there has been all kinds of rumors or threats at many different schools around the country and they are looking into ALL of them either by lock downs or police dogs checking out the schools. I know we live in a small town but it's time to pull our heads out of the ground and protect all the children. We feared enough this summer with all the break-ins and the lack of information. We don't need to keep looking over our shoulders again waiting for something to happen. Why not home school this boy until he is proven fit to enter back into the public school system again. For the sake of CCDHS I sure hope NOTHING happens.
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Posted by Joe Yates (+604) 15 years ago
How can someone be 'on house arrest' and then be let back into the school for the statements made. The school word is there is alot of kids on the 'list', so alot of kids are not going to school Monday. Also, that someone made the comment that if he was stopped that there are 5 others to take his place. Anyone that makes threats or even statements of any kind like this should be out of school immediatly, given to the Army and since to Iraq. Okay I went far with the Army and Iraq, but why should ours teens live under threat? Is you child on that list?
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
Keep your children home and safe. Do not let them go back until this ENTIRE group of people is safely locked away. You can NOT replace a child. Someone's "I never thought he (or she) would go that far does not help the heartache of loss. There are no second chances with this type of danger. Boycott the school. Signs. Pickets. The entire town should be in an uproar, not just parents of high school students.
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Posted by Antonia Klein (+40) 15 years ago
Kacey,

I would like to address your comment about individuals who need mental health services. As a community we have the opportunity to address issues such as the recent incident at CCDHS through your local mental health advisory council which will begin to meet once a month in May. The community decides what services are needed and work together with their community program officer to develop, implement and monitor necessary mental health services. More and more our society is recognizing the need for mental health to be a part of education, corrections, domestic violence issues, and other areas. Your local community program officer who happens to be me is more than happy to answer any questions and act when necessary about those mental health issues prevalent in this community.

I do have knowledge of school shooters as I did graduate work on Jeff Weise of Red Lake, Minnesota. Jeff was a Native American high school student who was a shooter at his school a few years ago. Certainly, if it can happen in Red Lake, MN, Miles City is not immune. Programs addressing bullying, suicide prevention, and general knowledge about those mental health issues common to teens are in order. There are characteristics common to most school shooters and mental health professionals familiar with these situations should be a familiar figure among students and faculty.

When my daughter, Danielle Lupinacci was in junior high she was confronted with similar threats by a fellow student. Danielle immediately went to the principal and reported it. The same individual threatened the Senior class when Danielle graduated. He was suspended from school. Apparently, the mental health issues were never addressed with this young man. This is the issue...

I encourage any interested party to attend the local mental health advisory council meeting. You have the opportunity to play a leading role in making Miles City as safe as possible through addressing our community need. Please do not wait for a tragedy to happen. Mental health issues are the expectation....not the exception.

Your Mental Health Community Program Officer
Antonia Klein
234-1866
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
You may have services available, but unless things have changed drastically in the recent past, it still comes down to who the patient is and who the parents are. It is still a small town. There are still loyalties.
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Posted by Cindy (+384) 15 years ago
First - Amorette - WHAT? If you have something to say, say it. You have done this in other forums as well. Ok, never mind.

Second - why is that kid back in school?? Why did the high school NOT communicate with parents? Why are we left to wonder what is going on with the only knowledge of this we get from our kids? They evidently took him seriously enough to pull him from school for a couple of days. But he's back now - WHY??

The school system has some explaining to do. Our high school student told us of the incident and then nothing from the school officials. So we are left with rumors (Miles City loves that, don't they). Wouldn't it be better to learn the truth and what happened from the school? Should we be afraid to send our kids to school?
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Posted by Bill Zook (+495) 15 years ago
Has anyone inquired of the school? Or the Supt.? Or the school board? Talk about a rumor mill!
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17954) 15 years ago
I keep updating my msnbc and cnn breaking news pages, but so far the Monday school massacre in Miles City hasn't shown up yet in the national media. Has it happened yet?
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Posted by Joe Yates (+604) 15 years ago
Mr Zook, have you contacted the Supt, Board, or Police? Please do so before calling concerned parents a 'rumor mill' and take this serious. Do you have a high schooler?
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Posted by Joe Yates (+604) 15 years ago
Thank you for your concern, Gunnar.
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Posted by Jon Bonine (+168) 15 years ago
Has anyone heard of HIPAA? (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act)
Health information, including mental health is not released by medical practitioners. They really are not even supposed to acknowledge that someone has recieved treatment. The student that was removed from school is given the same protection of privacy that you should expect from your doctor. The school itself may not know the full picture of why the student returned.

This will become a major issue in the near future as this is reviewed in light of Virginia Tech
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Posted by Frank-n-Beans (+42) 15 years ago
Perhaps if your children are going to end up like you, maybe a massacre is in order.
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Posted by Mr. Natural (+64) 15 years ago
So I'm gunna let someone else handle Frank and his not-so-well thought out comments.
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Posted by Frank-n-Beans (+42) 15 years ago
Hey, porcupines have rights too!!
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Posted by Chad (+1761) 15 years ago
"CCDHS is not known for taking proper care of those who need mental help."

Why on Earth wold providing psychiatric evaluation and counseling be a service of a school? Since when (and why) has this been put in their lap? I can see the schools identifying a possible concern and then referring it to the mental health community, but it should not be the responsibility of the schools to deal with it. I also think this exposes the serious lack of support for the entire profession and the need in our society for proper psychiatric/psychological counseling- and are we as a society willing to pay for it? Seems like it's only important after it fails to identify a problem and deal with it.

From my perspective I'd like to add that the rumor mill is running rampant and various stories are being mixed, told, re-told and and embellished. If there is a problem I have faith that the administration would issue a statement or take action. Try not to mix Columbine, Virginia Tech, and University of Texas stories with events in Miles City. There apparently are several sides to the local situation.
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Posted by Cindy (+384) 15 years ago
Frank N xxxx - what kinda comment is that? Your comment should be stricken as inappropriate.

Chad - I'm sure there are two or several sides to this story. But why not COMMUNICATE with the parents of the kids that attend CCDHS?? Our kids have told us what they know - rumor, truth, whatever - but why not set the record straight so we all feel better about sending our kids to school? A letter sent to the homes would go a long way. All we are left with now is speculation. And that's not fair.
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Posted by Kelly (+2784) 15 years ago
Since no one answered Mr. Zook's question...


How many of you "concerned" parents have actually called the school to voice your opinion and to obtain the facts? MC.com isn't going to give you the answers you seek. Unless you've made that call, you have no reason to be belly-aching on here as a "concerned" parent.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 4/23/2007).]

[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 4/23/2007).]
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Posted by Tina Bean (+413) 15 years ago
You go ahead and make your smart little comments with your friend gunner! I bet you would feel a little differently if you had a kid whose name was on a massacre list. My kids are my life and if ANYTHING ever happened to them you would have to hold me back from killing the person that hurt them. To totally disregard someones feelings the way u 2 have is awful!!! They are worried about their children and OBVIOUSLY from all of the school shootings we all have a right to be. SMALL TOWN OR NOT!! If in fact this did happen it should fall into the "Zero tolerance" deal right. You as parents have a right to make sure your kids are safe and I for 1 encourage you to do what u have to do to make sure of it.
As for gunner and porky.....you should be ashamed of yourself. Karma is a @%&*#. Im sorry your mother raised u to be so cold!
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Posted by Lisa Treu (+68) 15 years ago
I have a tendency to agree with those who think we need to be informed!! I would rather be an over-protective (or whatever it may be called) parent keeping my child home and find out it was only a rumor, than to pass it off as a speculation and have something happen. I "DID" call the school and was not given the concrete information that I needed to know that my child "WILL" be safe in school. So, until I know for sure that this is just a run of the "rumor mill" - my child will not be put in a situation that I am not sure he will be safe! Hopefully, we (as parents) can get the correct information to feel our children will be ok. I think the "right" information needs to be let out, so we can feel assured and not let the rumors be what we are basing our decisions off of.
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Posted by Patty O. (+218) 15 years ago
Kelly,

As a concerned parent YES I have called the school. I have left many messages and I am still waiting for a return call from Mr. Ogolin. I tried talking to the secretary and she was very short with her answers actually all she said was we have the situation under
control.We as parents need to know what exactly the "situation" is.

My children are my everything and I am sorry that you feel we are "belly-aching" by listing our concerns on MC.com.
I sure hope you don't have children,family or friends in CCDHS. Or ever have to be put in a situation where you have to debate the safety of someone you love.
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Posted by Pete Petro (+279) 15 years ago
Has anyone tried to get the police version of this, since the school won't cooperate?
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Posted by Kelly (+2784) 15 years ago
Tina Bean:
Do you have a child that was on the "massacre" list? If so, you should also be asking what your child did to be on that list. As a person who was often bullied in school, I have a perspective on this.


Patty O:
If you called the school and didn't get satisfactory answers, then I am sorry. Did you then immediately call the superintendant?

However, it is still belly-aching about the situation to post on here. If parents are not getting the answers they deserve, then they should be going to the school en mass to demand the answers. Instead of posting specualtion on the situation here, why doesn't one of you concerned parents use this forum to organize a parents' march on the school. Demand answers. One-on-one will not cut it in this town. You should know that by now.

BTW...my point is this: Belly-aching is fine, but this type of situation demands action.


[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 4/23/2007).]
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Posted by Betty Emilsson (+72) 15 years ago
As a member of the school board, I was very suprised and concerned when I started getting parents' calls on Thursday and Friday. Frankly I was surprised that the administration did not see the need to inform the trustees when the situation occurred. I visited with another board member who had talked to the superintendent and was confident this matter was being taken care of appropriately. It was very surprising to learn that the young man was wearing an electronic surveillance device and still allowed to attend class. This would be the responsibility of the police to see that he stayed home or placed in a lockup. Since he was released after a psychiatric evaluation, I would hope that he is not a danger or a threat. I do hope he does not have any access to weapons. Pray that we never make CNN Headlines for a matter like this. By the way, why haven't we seen any statement about this in the Miles City Star?

[This message has been edited by Betty Emilsson (edited 4/23/2007).]
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 15 years ago
Do you have a child that was on the "massacre" list? If so, you should also be asking what your child did to be on that list. As a person who was often bullied in school, I have a perspective on this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While I don't agree with this idea in theory (I was and knew of plenty of people bullied in school, and going on a killing spree never entered my mind), there is some food for thought here, for parents in particular.

I have a child who has been bullied, at times relentlessly, regarding weight, starting in kindergarten. The most recent trash talking came out of the mouth of a five-year old.

Some of the most unbelievable things come out of the mouths of children. Seeing as how most of the people on this thread are speaking about their high school aged children, it is probably too late at this point, however, if you have a small child, it is your duty to speak to them about what is and is not acceptable treatment of other kids. It needs to be spelled out from a very young age, at least by the age of three, that name calling, teasing, bullying will not be tolerated, and even more importantly, the effect that their words have on those they are taunting.

It is your job to raise them with compassion. They need to understand the consequences of their words and actions. If you think that this does not apply to you, think again. I know that if I named the names of the children we have had problems with, the bulk of the names would come as a complete surprise. "Not my child".

Sit your children down. Ask them about their day. Ask them about their interactions with and thoughts of other students. Ask their teachers, aides, counselors, etc. if there have been any problems with their taunting of others. It is your job to do so.

We have taught our children that it is simply a matter of the bully's insecurity and low self-esteem that they choose to belittle others to make themselves feel better, but wouldn't it be nice if all parents would step up and do their part in parenting too? Sending your children over to the neighbor's house to play/eat all hours of the day and night because you don't want to bother with them is not parenting. Letting them sit all day in front of a t.v./computer because you don't want to bother with them is not parenting. Parents themselves bullying and calling their children names, etc., is not parenting. Take an active part in their lives. Lead by example. Teach them compassion. Teach them to care. Teach them something!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9424) 15 years ago
Maybe he'll agree to only use wooden bullets for Mavericks players.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15285) 15 years ago
"Has anyone tried to get the police version of this, since the school won't cooperate?"

They are probably all preocupied with who gets Lissa job.
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Posted by Kelly (+2784) 15 years ago
Denise Selk:
Thank you for your post. I understand your reasoning that being bullied does not necessarily lead to bloodshed. At the time, I never would have considered such a violent reaction to the bullying I encountered, with my "moral trigger" still in place. However, as a person who is being treated for mental illness (bipolar), I can fully appreciate the rash actions of someone who also has mental illness, is being bullied, and has no treatment or support system in place. Mental illness is a taboo in our society. This is gradually changing, but unless someone has experienced it for him/herself, you can't truely appreciate what it is like.
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Posted by mom (+69) 15 years ago
Agreed, it is sad that bullying creates so many vicitms who feel they have no other recourse but extreme violence. But remember this: Not all of the people on the list were bullies, and not all of the victims of such a person will even know him. Often perceived bullying isn't seen that way by anyone other than the individual perpetrating the crime. Many other things can motivate such a person. The need to have a place in history, good or bad, large or small drives people to do many strange things. The need or desire for attention from a particular person or persons drives people. The inability to make clear choices for oneself forces some people into following or helping a sick individual. The strangely peverted sense that we can't let our "Bros" or "Homies" down can play a part in it. Revenge is by no means the sole factor in the list of things that drive such an event as Columbine or Virginia Tech or most recently, CCDHS. That being said, What kind of responsibility for this kind fo horror do we as a society carry for having perpetrated and allowed the notion that violence is the only answer? If we have purchased or watched a movie where problems are solved with violence, if our choice of "easy listening music" includes references to getting even with or back at someone who "done me wrong", If we have been seen laughing at the misfortune of someone who is less "cool" that we are, then we too must bear some of the burden of guilt. I for one am uncomfortable looking in that mirror. Do you like what YOU see?
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Posted by mom (+69) 15 years ago
Sorry, I doubled up in the button pushing department.

[This message has been edited by mom (edited 4/23/2007).]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15285) 15 years ago
I wish some of you would double-up on pushing the enter key, magically forming paragraphs. Thanks!
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Posted by Tina Bean (+413) 15 years ago
Kelly
I do not have a child in the high school but I do have family members who go to the school I am not sure if they are on the list or not. My children are younger. My oldest will be attending next year. What on earth does that have to do with the fact that I am genuinely concerned with ANY child being on the list. Thats where everyones concern ought to be! Can you imagine the fear they feel. Wondering if they are safe? These kids are our future. They are the doctors, lawyers, srevice workers, caretakers, future mothers and fathers!!!! Stop the nit pickin and try to be a part of the solution instead of the problem. The poor kid who created the list must have one hell of a life to feel the need to even "JOKE" about such things. If anyone knows who this kid is I suggest you take a little extra time to make sure this list Never gets excuted. Even if its just a little note to tell them they are special and let them know u care. Something, anything because obviously there are issues. An issue like this needs to be treated seriously. Our kids lives are not a joke! Nit pick and make your jokes all u like.. it just tells your mentality as well. I pray to god nobody really gets hurt.

Lisa,
Keep your boy home till you know hes safe.

Life is real and precious. Treat each day as if it is your last and treat those you love as if its the last time u will see them...In this day and age it just may be.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
"Do you have a child that was on the "massacre" list? If so, you should also be asking what your child did to be on that list. "

This kind of mentality scares me. NO CHILD deserves to be on a massacre list. How you can speak of caring and compassion and still have those words come out of your head is beyond me. Now some kid is going to read your post and think...hey, an adult thinks some kids deserve to be on a massacre list. Wow..you've really helped things a lot!
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Posted by Kelly (+2784) 15 years ago
I'm sorry my mentality scares you, but it is a realistic one that you shouldn't bury your head in the sand over. I suffer from mental illness. I was also bullied at school. With those two qualifiers, I think I'm competent to say what I said. Yes! The kid needs professional help, but all anyone wants to do on this forum is vilify him. Yes, parents need answers to their questions and should be concerned. That still doesn't negate the fact that more than likely to be on the list, those kids did something, real or perceived, that slighted the individual. Your comment actually strengthens my arguement. Mental illness is taboo and unless you've experienced it for yourself you will never understand the H E L L people who have it go through. You will also never understand it until you pull your head out of your a** and at least try and understand it. So where is your caring and compassion now?

BTW...I NEVER SAID ANYONE DESERVED TO BE ON THE LIST, so stop putting words in my mouth.


[This message has been edited by Kelly (edited 4/23/2007).]
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1348) 15 years ago
Go Cowboys

[This message has been edited by J. Dyba (edited 4/24/2007).]
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Posted by eeyoor (+47) 15 years ago
I guess I didn't relize it was a big deal to care about your kids and ask others for advise, some of you make it hard to post on here by the way you treat a persons questions or response. I thought we were all adults and could dicuss a situation with other adults but I can see I should just figure things and questions out on my own. Thanks for making me feel so unwelcome to post. Another mom of 2 CCDHS students who yes are my life no matter what.
I did also call the school and was not happy with there response.

[This message has been edited by eeyoor (edited 4/24/2007).]

[This message has been edited by eeyoor (edited 4/24/2007).]
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Posted by Tom Rhoades (+37) 15 years ago
I blame the Media.
We didn't need to know about VT or what happened.
Then maybe the kids here would not get crazy idea's like killing people for the lack of things to do.
I also called the High School... NOTHING!
I called the principal... NOTHING!
High scool is a social nightmare anyway, let alone being threatened with your life.
Kids are not being brought up like they used to.
Schools, teachers, police, PARENTS, are afraid of being sued by their kids.
What ever happend to thinking that your parents were going to punish you like you can't imagine, if I do this. Fear of the Police was nothing compared to the wrath of DAD!

NOTE ( I purposely omitted the phrase "My parents will kill me if I do this") to be politically correct, so I won't be sued by someone thinking that I want to kill someone.

BUT YOU KNOW THAT'S WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING BACK WHEN WE WERE KIDS!

Laws and political correctness have taken over.

FREEDOM LOST

This Post was for entertainment purposes only.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 15 years ago
"What ever happend to thinking that your parents were going to punish you like you can't imagine, if I do this. Fear of the Police was nothing compared to the wrath of DAD!"

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Amen!
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3831) 15 years ago
You know, it's not paranoia if they are really watching you.
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Posted by Jon Bonine (+168) 15 years ago
Maybe the concept of privacy doesn't exist in Miles City.

Unless the student was considered a legitimate threat (a threat to themselves or to others) by medical/mental health professionals, his treatment is private. It is the decision of the mental health professionals, not the public, not the principal, not the school board and not MC.com.

And that can be scary. If you have ever had to deal with someone who is suicidal/homicidal, it is different than just "having a plan." Even if the kid had a list and made a threat, if he is not considered homicidal, then the only choice is involuntary admitance to a mental health facility (and if he's not considered homicidal/suicidal, he wouldn't be involutarily admitted).

We may not like it, but there are laws about this that the school has to follow.
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Posted by Tom Rhoades (+37) 15 years ago
Maybe a month in Pine Hills School would snap him out of it.

A threat is a threat is a threat!

If I theatened someone, would I not be served a restraining order and more than likely jailed?

So easy a cave man could understand!

A kid whose parents were of LIMITED MEANS (POOR or lack of money) was joking about a bomb in school here a few years back and was imediatly kicked out of school spent some jail time and denied graduation!
So what is wrong with this picture?

Ok, then let us just watch the police dept. and everyone in the school system mamby pamby around and check their liabilities while the Miles City Vigilante group gathers in front of the school to take care of the problem (in referance to Kelly's post) and then watch as the Police arrest them for doing the right thing!

So criminals have more power as per the law than law abiding citizens.

I have said it again and I'll say it before, Common sense is NOT Common!

This post is also for entertainment purposes only!
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Posted by Cindy (+384) 15 years ago
I would agree that some people are being very insensitive on this forum. I always thought the forum feature on milescity.com was created so that we could gather as interested persons to share ideas, criticisms, thoughts, etc. about Miles City and the world. Many of you gather on here and talk (argue) about politics. I choose not to join you there.

I do choose to gather on this topic because I have kids in the high school and junior high school. My two plus their friends - all whom I consider "my kids". I care what happens to them and love them and pray daily for their safety.

All I'm asking for is COMMUNICATION from the school system. Did it happen? Are they doing all they can to make sure my kids are safe in school? Because we are receiving no communication and no returned calls from the school, we are left to speculate and listen to rumors. Why not COMMUNICATE??? What is so hard about that? I don't want nor do I need them to tell me who it was - I just want to know IF it happened and that my kids are safe.

As I said, there are many insensitive comments on this forum. I wish those that posted them wouldn't have but you are who you are. You probably don't have kids in our local high school so you are not as close to this as many of us are. Many of you have opinions - another reason for the forum feature on this website - but the insensitive ones don't need to be posted here.

Excuse us for caring about our kids safety - and the safety of their friends - and the safety of all the kids in the school district - even the one that made the threats.
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Posted by Chad (+1761) 15 years ago
"The student" was sitting around last week with a group of students talking about the VT shootings, Columbine and other such events. There was talk between the students about how so many were killed or injured. Someone asked why didn't he (the VT shooter/the Columbine shooters) just use a bomb, they'd kill more people? Another student asked how a guy with a gun could injure or kill so many? "The student" replied something to the effect that the shooter had two guns and could shoot fast. He then said something like 'with a gun you can be more selective in who you shoot'. Somewhere in the conversation (at CCDHS) there was a disagreement and some words were thrown around about kicking someones butt, to which another student said if he had a gun he'd shoot the butt kicker.

All of this was overheard by other students nearby the conversation. It turned into "the student" had two guns and he was going to shoot someone. Then someone said he had a list with a few names on it; that list turned into forty names- certainly the sophomores that made Varsity football were on the list, because "the student" was a junior and didn't make the cut- he must have put the sophomores on the list out of spite.

Then someone remembered talk of bombs and blowing things up. Therefor, he must be building bombs at home! Now the MCPD are involved in the situation. "The student" is taken into custody, escorted out of town (for everyones safety)- everyone thinks they arrested him for his evilness. The police search his locker and his home. They find NO guns or weapons of any kind. They find NO bombs or bomb making materials. They find NO list.

In the meantime the Miles City rumor mill runs amok. People are asking me what I know? Why the H#&& would I know anything? "The student" is sitting in a cell in Billings by now and is brought before a District Court Judge.

The Judge looks at the "evidence" and tells the police and other parties involved in the arrest, 'you don't have anything here. You are going to get sued for this'. The Judge orders that "the student" be brought home and returned to his family, that he go back to school, and that the matter be dropped.

By now the rumor mill and the MilesCity.com site are going crazy.

So we now have "the student" sent back to school by a District Judge, his life is in chaos, he is accused of being everything from the Uni bomber to Cho Seung Hui. How's he going to fit back into CCDHS, or Miles City for that matter?

So here's my point- before you start flying off the handle and propagating a bunch of ill will and bad karma toward someone, get your facts straight. I know you're all sensitive to present conditions based on what happened at Virginia Tech, but chill out and get a grip. "The student" probably needs a pat on the back right now and some understanding. After all, he has good grades, participates in school activities, and fits in with his clique.

And before you say he probably got what was coming to him, keep this in mind- We've all been young and brash at some point; we've all said and done things we regret; we've all heard things taken out of context only to be misconstrued into some distorted rumor that has no bearing on the true facts. I've heard some of YOUR kids say things that given the way this was handled, could have put them in the same situation if it had been gotten out of hand like this.
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Posted by Cindy (+384) 15 years ago
Ok, so how hard would it have been for our local school system to jot down what you just did and send it home with the kids? Rumor and speculation is present because no one gave us the FACTS, JUST THE FACTS!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9424) 15 years ago
I have to admit that I find the prospect of a lynching by the upright citizens of Miles City to be very entertaining.
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Posted by Chad (+1761) 15 years ago
I'd suggest calling your local School Board member and discussing your concerns, or frustration as the case may be.

Bridgier, be careful, you may get thrown in the pokey for talk like that!
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Posted by Mr. Natural (+64) 15 years ago
I revoke Bridgier's right to make any more comments on this forum. Anyone agree? Also, thanks to Chad for putting everything straight.
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Posted by Tom Rhoades (+37) 15 years ago
Who is Chad, and how do we know that he knows what the facts are?
I at least take responsability for what I say or joke about on here with my full name. What is everyone else afraid of?

And I'm NOT saying that this a joking matter, ok!!!!!

Just that it's NEWS-ERTAINMENT!
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Posted by Chad (+1761) 15 years ago
Is this Tom with the VW's? Tom who's Dad had a Whizzer?

I took it upon myself to inquire with various people- Administrators, Teachers, Janitors, a Policeman. I'm just passing on what I've been told- I took the liberty of combining several points of view and individual takes on the situation.

Did I tell you there's a topless (bare breasted) truck wash looking for a home in M.C.? They're hoping to cater to gay truck drivers as they only intend to hire buff, tanned, young men with ripped muscle development. They'll only be open two months of the year and the employee uniform varies from ripped blue jeans, to tattered cut off shorts, to Speedos for the guys who want real good tips! Pass that one around the rumor mill.

[This message has been edited by Chad (edited 4/24/2007).]
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Posted by Tom Rhoades (+37) 15 years ago
You bet it is Chad. i am glad that you did your home work. I meant no harm in my comments. I think it's all a lot of twoddle anyway.
Now back to work on my Bugs!
A Truck Wash... HMMM Really? Nice touch!
later
Fini~
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Posted by Kelly (+2784) 15 years ago
What was everyones take on the article in the Star tonight?
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Posted by Chris Peterson (+159) 15 years ago
First of all, thank you for the facts. It would have been nice to have them from the start. My attempt was to responsibly obtain the facts without starting a rumor mill by plainly stating what I knew was only ASSUMPTIONS. With few exceptions, I am impressed with our community AND with our exceptions.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To all who have commented here,

I just couldn't hold myself from commenting about this issue. It was brought to my attention just a couple of minutes ago and I wish I would have had a chance to comment sooner about these outrageous inflammations. I hope you are offended by some of the things I have to say, good, great, wonderful, you deserve it.

First of all, out of the 40-50 some people that commented here there was only one person that actually took it upon themselves to check the facts, one. The rest? You all shook the cage, poked your own stick, you had nothing better to do but stir a pot of rumors and hearsay. Did any of you take into consideration that this person you so eagerly ridiculed is too a person? About a misunderstanding. I fear not; he was your mid-morning Soap Opera, your claim to fame, had to put in your two cents. until Chad brought some of you to your senses. Any apologies? One? Some of you feel that this should have been ruled with an iron fist; one stated that he should "be given to the Army and sent to Iraq." Wow, really? You should probably not have a computer with internet access or cable TV for that matter; you're an idiot. (TV stands for television, yeah, they shortened it for people like you).

This whole situation started exactly how this collection of comments began. A misunderstanding of what was being said that led to the social crucifixion of a young man. And no wonder where the students got it from; idiots teaching idiots. What was your driving force? The safety of your children? Yeah right. Did you check your facts before you commented? No. I'd laugh in your face if you say you did. What was the source of your information? "Well. my daughter said that she heard from him that they had a cousin that went to parade and heard from a vendor that they had heard from his pet parrot, who had been perched outside the window while it unfolded that.." I guess that could be a good bibliographical (uh-oh, get out the dictionary) reference to cite at the end of you comment, valid.

Do you think for one second that if this had been an actual threat, that if there were in fact a list that this "incident" would have been handled accordingly? Or, maybe the officials looked at "the list" and said, "uh. no loss here, their parents are idiots. Good luck kid. Try to do it outside so there`s less to clean up." Oh great, look what I've started. Lock the doors, climb in your bath tub. (I hear they're bullet proof too). Next we'll be hearing about parents petitioning the schools for uniforms (because conformity always solves these kinds of problems) and that teachers should wear riot gear to classes. Fuel to the fire.

Yeah, he's home and not in jail. Yeah, he's being electronically monitored (for his own good, of course, police wouldn't want him chased down like a Frankenstein by you unruly townsfolk). There was no threat, you people watch way too much television, read too little and are ill informed. Yeah, there are some sick people out there but you know what, you can't start a witch hunt for people that want to "shoot up" schools every time there's a mass-media explosion. If you feel the school isn't safe, please leave town with your tail between your legs. Miles City will be all the better for it because it's people like you that ruin society and dumb our collective gene pool. Of all the places I've lived though the course of my life, this city has the most snobbish, self-righteous, hypocrites I've ever had to share an existence with. Get over yourselves and your limited point of views, quit living your lives off of gossip and what you heard "them" say.

How many parents here in town can whole-heartedly say that they've taught their children that there's more to do in Miles City than getting drunk at Bucking Horse, smoking pot, and making meth? I'd be surprised if it were more than a couple of handfuls. Is that all we have to live for? Answer for your own teachings and the example you set before you judge another.

And to Chad, Thank you for presenting an informed view on this issue. I understand that you might not completely agree with the things I've said here in but I would like to express my appreciation for your insight and ability to be more informed. oh, and I hope this town is more accepting of the new car wash.... I hear they're going to have it near one of the elemntary schools!
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
-----How many parents here in town can whole-heartedly say that they've taught their children that there's more to do in Miles City than getting drunk at Bucking Horse, smoking pot, and making meth? I'd be surprised if it were more than a couple of handfuls.-----
For someone so high handed and condemning of those who judge others without fact, you sure made a nasty comment about the thousands of people in Miles City who raised their children well. Children who joined organizations at schools, sang in choirs, were big champ role models, etc. Your comment is an insult to the people of Miles City who have worked hard to be good parents and raise responsible kids. You should be ashamed.
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Posted by Shu (+1792) 15 years ago
To "Chipmunk Ninja"

I challenge you to point-out to me where I did not present a fact: Neal Zabroski DID do what I said he did in the mid-80's - he took hostages by gunpoint at CCDHS and was arrested trying to flee the school with them. You can investigate that for yourself and find it to be true...and I didn't even bring that up to begin with. Richard did because it was a similar instance. By the way, I was disappointed when I found out Neal did that back then. I had played in the soccer league with him as a youngster and thought he was a good kid way back then. I didn't know him real well, but I didn't think he would have done that, and I wish he hadn't.

The only other thing I said was: "I can understand anyone's concern about so much as a threat of something like this - let's hope it's properly dealt with." So, where in that statement did I contribute to gossip or deliberately try to "stir a pot"?

Lastly, it's interesting that you should cast all these stones when you, admittedly, did not check the facts yourself.

Maybe before you make accusations you should CHECK YOUR OWN FACTS!
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Kacey,

Again, GET OVER YOURSELF. My comments were made to offend and ridicule people like you sitting on your high horse that say I should be ashamed of what I say. Freedom of speech, hear of it? I'm damn proud of every word that exits my fingers, appears on your screen, and fills your eyes, etching my voice in your brain as you writhe in your chair. The force is strong with me, behold and fear my micro. What I say is well thought, I take time to think and research before I speak and as it seems now, I'm invasive to the picture perfect existence you hide in and that you are ignorant to accept.

The simple fact is, of the thousands that live and have lived here in Miles City, there ARE only a select few that have taught their children well; that don't put on an act of being something their not. Parents that would rather spend time with their children and be involved in their activities that you speak of and their lives instead of wasting their time, money, and minds at the Casinos and bars. I did not point out anyone specifically, as other's here point their fingers at this student, nor did I make an ill-informed comment as you eagerly sprung to conclude. Don't you dare judge me for being a free thinker and seeing and speaking of what you would rather ignore. For the last couple of years I've been involved in teaching, coaching, and supervising the very youth in this community, hundreds of children, your children, their children. Yet, you say I'm ill-informed and should be ashamed.

Parents show up drunk/high/late/and sometimes not at all, the children themselves their own transport to activities, their get away, other parents supporting them more than their own parents. Some, and yes there are those proud and upstanding, come early, stay through practices, games, coach, go to meetings during the heat, rain and snow. Did I ridicule them? Were my comments directed at them? No, and they are the sort of people that would have understood the numerous points I've made previously and would agree with me when I say as you quoted "How many parents here in town can whole-heartedly say that they've taught their children that there's more to do in Miles City than getting drunk at Bucking Horse, smoking pot, and making meth? I'd be surprised if it were more than a couple of handfuls. Is that all we have to live for?" because they too see those parents and the children affected by their poor choices and parenting.

If this issue of what happened at CCDHS was important to you, you would have commented on it and not on something I said that you disagree with. I don't hear you commenting on all the great points and observations I've made, but you had to stick your slimy fingers into my candy dish and get up-in-arms about something irrelevant to the issue at hand. I first responded to this to address the issue of "Bullet Proof Vests at CCDHS" not change the subject to whether or not I should be ashamed of what I say and think because you don't like it. Tough. If you feel so strongly about my comments, start your own Forum about "What kids are learning from their parents and how they affect society" or "Does my drug and alcohol use set a good example for my children?"

Chipmunk Ninja

P.S. To Shu,

In what realm of reality would you take my comment as a personal attack towards you. Did I once refer to your comment specifically and call you a liar as you are now doing to me? Obviously you must have misread somewhere on my comment that it was directed at you. I'm sorry that you weren't more thorough and jumped the gun. (oops, there's that nasty little word again. Don`t come after me with your torches lit, pitch forks in hand!)

I've checked my facts, more so, it also helps to be involved in the community and be personally preview to such privileged information that allows me to make such informed discussions. Matter of factually, where does it say as you remarked "admittedly, did not check the facts myself?" Did I say that? What I meant about being just informed at the beginning of my first post, was about the Forum not the incident at hand. Sure you probably do have your facts right about that other incident which I overlooked. But right now your just being arrogant with you comments and wildly throwing around accusations because if were going to call you a liar I would have made it a point to single your comment out as I`m doing now. Maybe you and Kacey should start a Forum about how much you dislike the fact that you're completely off subject and how you don't like my comments. I'm sure your time would be of better use there.

Chipmunk Ninja

[This message has been edited by Chipmunk Ninja (edited 4/26/2007).]
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1348) 15 years ago
Ninja, you make excellent points but again I have to ask; Why do people hide behind anonymous usernames? In my eyes anything you say is tempered with the reminder that you don't "truly" stand behind what you're saying because you hide yourself in the process.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
Chipmunk Ninja,
I made no comments about the issue at CCDHS as I know by now it is being handled by those who need to handle it. My comment was made to you because you had spent so much time and effort telling others to not judge when they don't know the whole story. Yet that is what you did. Your comments about a handful of parents is completely inaccurate. My children were raised without drinking, drugs or gambling in our home. And I have worked with many wonderful caring parents through the years. So your focus on those parents who do have problems such as drinking and gambling and drugs should stay there. On the ones that do those things. But wait, that is you being judgmental again. You have NO right to accuse the majority of parents in Miles City of being bad, uncaring parents. I truly hope if you do work with children that you don't saturate them with your attitude because it really stinks. Those who come from homes such as you describe really need positive support, not negativity. I work with and have worked with MANY MANY children of all ages and all backgrounds and find that being positive with them achieves way more than your way of thinking. If I had worked with a child who sounds like you I would have tried to get them some form of anger therapy. Fear and anger are dangerous in anyone, whether child or adult.
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Posted by Patty O. (+218) 15 years ago
My thoughts exactly J.Dyba! Why do people hide behind anonymous usernames? In my eyes anything you say is tempered with the reminder that you don't "truly" stand behind what you're saying because you hide yourself in the process.

If Miles City is so full of snobbish,self-righteous,hypocrites why are you still here?? Miles City has all the same issues drinking, drugs, gambling etc. as any other town in any other state.

Good luck finding your perfect town with perfect people!
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Kacey,

When will your needless comments cease? Again, if you feel the need to badger me directly, start another forum or rather mail me directly. Your comments have no place here because you can't address the issue that's really at hand.
Anger Therapy? That's reaching a bit don't you think? Are you trying to push cognitive restructuring with positive reinforcement because as it seems you are only throwing around judgments and negativity, yourself. It seems to me that you really just can't stomach anything you can't agree with.
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Posted by Shu (+1792) 15 years ago
"Chipmunk Ninja" or whatever your real name is (my real name IS Shu, for the record):

First of all, your exact words were:
"out of the 40-50 some people that commented here there was only one person that actually took it upon themselves to check the facts, one. The rest? You all shook the cage, poked your own stick, you had nothing better to do but stir a pot of rumors and hearsay."
I am part of "the rest" that you referred to, so YES YOU DID lump me into the group that you accused of gossiping and stirring the pot, which I did not.

Secondly, since you have now failed to prove that I gossipped or said anything that wasn't factual, I now challenge you to prove that I called you a "liar" at all, as you now accuse me of. I did no such thing and you know it.

Thirdly, I have re-read your first post...where did you say you checked your facts?
Again, your words were: "out of the 40-50 some people that commented here there was only one person that actually took it upon themselves to check the facts, one." and as we all know, that was Chad (very good and noble of him to do that, by the way, and THANKS)...you did not indicate anywhere in that rant that you checked your facts as well, therefore you implied that you did not.

Just so you know, "Chipmunk", I will not address you again on this thread because I see no point in it...I already know that you're the type who will post again just to get-in the last word and, quite frankly, you haven't made much sense and you have already contradicted yourself several times. You can have the last word if you want it. It doesn't mean anything to me.

[This message has been edited by Shu (edited 4/26/2007).]
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Posted by Frank-n-Beans (+42) 15 years ago
Perhaps if your children are going to end up like you, maybe a massacre is in order.
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Posted by Mr. Natural (+64) 15 years ago
Hey, guess what Frank. It wasn't funny the first time you said that. Maybe you should get a clue.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Natural (edited 4/26/2007).]
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Posted by Frank-n-Beans (+42) 15 years ago
I'm laughing.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Shu,

I'm very pleased that after posting my first comment this whole thread shifted it's view away from the real issue and on to me. And so defensively I might add. Kacey took my post as a personal attack on her parenting and now you take it as an attack on your facts. I don't care about your comment about Neal Zabroski, it adds nothing to the discussion here and is a completely different issue. He DID do those things you speak of, he had a gun and held people hostage. The student here in question DID NOT do any of these things he is being accused of, no weapons, no list. Somebody misunderstood what he was saying and blew it way out of proportion, just as you're doing now. Furthermore, you did call me a liar by stating that I did not check my facts and again you said that by not coming forward to provide you with a source that I "implied" that I had none and that I had not checked my facts.

You are, on the other hand, right about one thing: I did lump you with all those others, my mistake. What I should have realized is that you belong in the same category as the person that made the comment saying this student "should be given to the army and sent to Iraq." And again, you probably shouldn't have a computer with internet access or cable TV, You're an idiot. You can't comment on the issue and your points are solely based on technicalities, go ahead and reread my post, I haven't heard anything about you disagreeing about the points I've made.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
Chipmunk ninja...learn to read. No where did I saw it was just a personal attack on just my parenting. I said you attacked all parents except for a handful. The point was you attacked others for making judgments. Then you made some seriously faulty ones of your own. You changed this thread by your comments. Shu, nice to see someone else with common sense and the ability to read.
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1348) 15 years ago
Marc called, he wants his moniker back.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Kacey,

Thank you for proving my point. Again, you find yourself making a comment off topic. But no, it didn't stop there. Now you resort to childish attacks on MY common sense and "ability to read," when the real issue at hand here is how this community took it upon themselves to stretch this incident and incite panic and fear. Kacey, grow up and try to act a bit more adult about things before you come to me and preach of your good values and of character. Provoking me will only make my points stronger and solidify your ignorance to the real problem.

YOU'RE MISSING THE POINT PEOPLE!

The problem with you and other's that are like-minded, Kacey, is that you don't take any of the responsibility yourselves to have had a better plan in place to deal with these kind of situations. How many years since Columbine? You're concerned. but you still did nothing to ensure a better warning system here in our community or at very least a plan of communication. You place the blame in the schools, the administration, the police; what about yourselves? They've earned their right to serve this community through experience and with your votes. When everything is going well you back them, gloat about how you helped put them there, but when something happens like this you toss them to the wind and they're transformed into your scapegoat.

Some of you will say, "Hindsight is always 20/20." If that were the case, why then, why did we find ourselves in a state of near chaos? It's happened before, many times before.

A Time Line of Recent Worldwide School Shootings
courtesy http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html

Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash.
Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.

March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland
16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.

Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska
Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.

March 1997
Sanaa, Yemen
Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.

Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss.
Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.

Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky.
Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.

Dec. 15, 1997
Stamps, Ark.
Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.

March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark.
Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.

April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa.
One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.

May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn.
One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.

May 21, 1998
Springfield, Ore.
Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.

June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va.
One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.

April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo.
14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the nation's deadliest school shooting. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.

April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, Canada
One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.

May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga.
Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.

Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M.
Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.

Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla.
Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.

Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, Netherlands
One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich.
Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.

March 2000
Branneburg, Germany
One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga.
Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.

May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla.
One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.

Sept. 26, 2000
New Orleans, La.
Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.

Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md.
One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.

Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, Sweden
One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.

March 5, 2001
Santee, Calif.
wo killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.

March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa.
Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.

March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif.
One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.

March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind.
One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.

Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich.
Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.

Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y.
A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.

Feb. 19, 2002
Freising, Germany
Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany
13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina
One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.

April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La.
One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.

April 24, 2003
Red Lion, Pa.
James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.

Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn.
Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1270) 15 years ago
As one who has been taught by many many officers who were in the school that day in Littleton, I can tell you that what everyone here or anywhere THINKS they know, is not really all that accurate. I know this by hearing from the mouths of those officers. I know a sergeant who is a sniper that was on a rooftop across from the school while his own daughter was in the school.

They all say that each situation is dealt with 'at that time'. There is really no way to plan for what will happen... you can just never know. All you can do is practice and hope it doesn't happen.

The Sheriff at Bailey was one of the officers at Columbine, and he had been training since Columbine.... and he still lost a student. You can never tell what the psycho is going to do.

It seems that if Chad's info is correct, the school has acted appropriately. I can't imagine anyone I know at the school that would not handle the situation as protocol would demand.

If you didn't like how it was handled, get involved and change it.... it won't get changed here!

I just can't believe that so many people really truely believe that the school officials would not handle this appropriately! Can you all really say that's what you think? Come on! This whole thread has only been absolutely crazy!


[This message has been edited by Cory Cutting (edited 4/27/2007).]
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Posted by Roxanna Brush (+123) 15 years ago
We took the time to discuss with our children what they do if something does happen at school. Our "Emergency Plan" as we call it. Things happen and it appears that there is really nothing we can do to stop it at times. I hope for all of our sakes nothing will happen here to our children. Parents need to keep those lines of communication open with your children and do whatever it takes.
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10198) 15 years ago
There's some interesting advice offered up here - any thoughts on how effective it would be? Other advice?

"Effect Of Bad News On Kids Can Be Heavy"
By Lance Benzel
BILLINGS GAZETTE
April 27, 2007
http://www.billingsgazett...adnews.txt
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Posted by Patty O. (+218) 15 years ago
Chipmunk ninja, you probably shouldn't have a computer with internet access or cable TV, You're an idiot.

We all should be thankful nothing happened at CCDHS. Talk to your children have an open line of communication about everything from safety at school, drugs, drinking etc.

The only one you need to justify the way you raise your children is to yourself, your spouse and to God. Not to someone on MC.com who thinks they are perfect and the rest of us here are nothing but idiots.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Patty O,

On March 21st you wrote, "I think we all should keep our children home on Monday nothing could happen that day but maybe the school will see how we expect our children to be safe at school. And to rethink the way this was handled."

Then again on the 22nd "Why not home school this boy until he is proven fit to enter back into the public school system again."

First of all, THE WAS NO LIST! If you're keeping an "open line" with your children, you should know that they really aren't that reliable of sources. Bits and pieces, hearsay.

Secondly, if you kept your children home, for even one day, don't go crying to the school for an excused absence. What would your reason have been? "Uh-duh, My children aren't going to school because they're afraid that someone will come to school and shoot possibly them and their friends. They don't have accurate sources, but they being force fed propaganda by the community, oh, and from me. I`m the real reason they`re staying home because I`m in shear panic, I don`t want my children to know so I`m going to put the blame on you guys, for not having a plan to communicate better." If you want home schooling, home school your own children. Dissocialize them and feed them more of your backwards nonsense.

Chipmunk Ninja

... by the way, I don't think I'm perfect, nor did I say I was; I'm just better informed than you, and don't go spouting off about nonsense, "because I think I need to be involved." Get a grip on reality, maybe you're the one who needs counseling before you get to write another ill-informed comment here. Let me pose one more question to you while were here... You said we need to justify ourselves to god. Where was our God that you pray to, that day in Virginia Tech? Maybe you're so righteous that he was looking only after your children and forgot about them.
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Posted by poisonspaghetti (+279) 15 years ago
Folks, you have to give it to Chipmunk Ninja. It's not everyone who can rise to that level of self-righteous indignation. Let's have a round of applause.
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Posted by Jay (+279) 15 years ago
Another Miles City pee'n match. You gotta love it. Small fish, big pond.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
Chipmunk...you will hear no more comments from me on this thread. You are obviously unbalanced. You make threats about what will happen if you are provoked! You sound so like someone with serious mental health issues. So no more replies from me...and I would ask others to do the same. I don't want to be responsible for a psychotic chipmunk running loose in MC!
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Kacey,

Sounds like somebody's projecting... I find your comments about me cute, at the very least... You make me giddy with excitement with every admittance of your outrage! If I knew who you were I'd laugh in your face, so close in fact, that you would feel the very mist that exhales with my every "ha"!

Thank you Kacey for leaving and making room for more intelligent people and comments!

(tomorrow's paper)

!!Breaking Headline!!
"Chipmunk Ninja Vanquishes Local From MC Forum, IQ's of Readers Skyrocket!" *(Sound of townspeople cheering)*

Does anyone realize that I've completely distracted everyone here from commenting on the real issue?

I'm the lollipop the doctor gives your kid while he gives them their shots.
I'm the funny face/balloon/stuffed animal the photographer shows your kid to get them to smile.
I'm the guy who says, "Hey, what's that?" and sneaks a bite from your plate at dinner when you turn around to look.

"Look! There in the sky! It's the Chipmunk Ninja! Ridding the Ethernets of the ill-informed!"

Chipmunk Ninja

Make some comments, do nothing, ignore the "problem," perfect solution!

...............WRITTEN/^

[This message has been edited by Chipmunk Ninja (edited 4/27/2007).]
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Posted by K. D. (+364) 15 years ago
This is for Chad:
"I took it upon myself to inquire with various people- Administrators, Teachers, Janitors, a Policeman. I'm just passing on what I've been told- I took the liberty of combining several points of view and individual takes on the situation."

I don't want to call you a liar by any means, because it sounds like you went a lot further than any one else in trying to get the facts. But, how much of what you heard is the truth, and not the "well we think this is what was said and/or done"?

I believe the school and the law enforcement fueled the rumor fire by not coming out and saying that everything was alright and taken care of. They could have mentioned that everything was based on "did you hear what my girlfiend's sister heard from her boyfriend's brother who heard it from his dog". I think this whole thing could have been handled a lot better if someone like Mr. Regan or an investigating officer had a public statement in the paper or on the radio with a few of the facts to help ease people's minds.

And lastly, to Chipmunk: You are hilarious. I just love it when people like you are so closed minded. I don't know if you are posting to just iritate people and get a reaction, or if you really believe in your own self rightousness.

[This message has been edited by K. D. (edited 4/28/2007).]
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10198) 15 years ago
J. Dyba wrote:
>>Ninja . . . but again I have to ask; Why do people hide behind anonymous usernames?


Perhaps she's been the victim of e-stalking or other types of harassment and is trying to protect herself by remaining anonymous? From what I've read, that's a fairly common reason for women to choose to use an Internet alias.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To K.D.

It's about 50/50, I put my first comment up to shut people up with their "rumor mill" as some have put it. Then the whole forum turned into an attack on a comment I made because nobody wanted to comment further after they saw what they were doing. I took the blame off everyone they were blaming and put it back on the parents. They ignored the real issue and found something else to attack. It's not hard to keep a running arguement when someone immediately turns to defending themselves when they don't need to. Maybe they were defending themselves out of guilt, who knows... (did you notice how few comments about the "real issue" followed my first comment?) Even when I tried to bring it back and commented about the frequency of actual school shootings, they were still so caught up in defending themselves they ignored the issue further. Then there was nothing left to do but resort to shameless namecalling (thank you Kacey for being so reserved and mature! ). All in all, I'm very pleased with this forums' reaction.

Thanks!

Chipmunk Ninja

P.S.

To Hal,

You're over complicating things, usually it's much simpler than that (but nobody's ever interested in the truth, it's so boring, why do think people read this crap?!) Nice attempt at adding a little spice though!
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Posted by Lori Barnett (+92) 15 years ago
He was "dealed with"? I'm pretty sure the correction here would be dealt with with which he was not. Go back to grammar school, obviously you missed a class or two yourself!

(This is for Mr. Natural)

[This message has been edited by Lori Barnett (edited 4/28/2007).]
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Posted by Lori Barnett (+92) 15 years ago
I know for a fact that the parents were NOT notified if they had a child on the "list". If it wasn't for a certain teacher who I will not name, the mother would not have been told the facts. This teacher even told this mother she was risking losing her job for callling and giving out this information. What in the hell is going on with the leaders here? I am very concerned about my children and all children's future's if this is how our town is influenced by "others". Why?
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Lori,

You were mis-informed. You need to call the principal or administration office or the district attorney's office. THERE NEVER WAS A "LIST." The existence of a "list" was fabricated. Part of the rumors. No charges are going to be filed on this youth because there were no threats made. Go back and ask your "inside source" where they got their information because they too were mis-informed.

The conspiracy continues....

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by Lori Barnett (+92) 15 years ago
And when you, chipmunk, asked these people, is this what they told you?
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
They've already come out with a statement in the paper, also. Read it, it's good stuff!
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Posted by eeyoor (+47) 15 years ago
I have made a few comments here and I am a little upset with the constant blame being on the parents. If this community had something for our teens to do that didn't cost some much money and something that all parents could afford that would solve a lot of the teen problems in this community, as for the "kid" being talked about if he did nothing wrong as I am getting from all of Chipmunk Ninja's comments. Then why are they considering charging him with a felony? The comment/threat he made came at a very BAD time for everyone and us as parents needed to know our kids would be safe. Whats wrong with that it is a very normal thing for parents to do. also No one has the right to say we are all bad parents for that. I am sure you (chipmunk ninja) have made some mistakes as well and if it were your kids you would act the same way, any parent would. I am getting the feeling you are in someway either related or close friends of the family the "kid." We are not saying anything bad about him or his family we are upset with HIS ACTION and choices! The only ones I am upset with is the school for not better informing high school kids and their parents. It's interesting how you feel you need to try to hurt everyone on here, are you trying to be the center of attention and have the last word? I am not a perfect parent but I am a damn good one, as are the other parents. As it has been said don't judge what you don't know. My kids are my life! But it is not always the parents fault. I feel for his family because I am sure he has good parents but yes sometimes all kids make bad choices.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
The thing is, I know the facts here, I know what happened, but am limited here as to what I can say, but I can put my own opinion out there on how this community reacted and is still reacting.

It's all hype built up from the V-Tech shooting... And just like after 9/11, everyone had their eyes out for a terrorist, people began to "hunt" for school shooters. If it would have happened any other time of the year (under different circumstances) this community would not have caused the rumors to spiral out of control as they have here. These kind of things start making people think that, "Hey, this could happen here." It gets people to start discussions, like we have here on this forum; those discussions also start in schools. You have to understand that there was no threat, there were no threats made, none, no list, no plan. If there were you would have been informed, there wasn't, there was only allegations, no proof, it was a "he said she said" incident that turned into a "he said they said, cause we heard from them who heard from." When school shootings are reported, we are in awe and are shocked, usually people don't begin talking about it until the smoke clears because it makes people uncomfortable. The comments this student made were not threats, he apologized for the comments he did make because it made people uncomfortable. But again, the rumors had already spread like wildfire, as gossip does in small towns, and was distorted and twisted. You all believed it because you were in that state of fear and it makes you more on edge. You might not agree with me but you need to open your eyes. You wanted to believe that this could happen here so much that you built this elaboration from a single comment.

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by eeyoor (+47) 15 years ago
Like I said as a parent my kids are my life!
and words were said and angery comments came out and this is how this started we all, not only teens tend to say things but somethings are best unsaid, at times when they come out depending on whats said yes it tends to cause problems but us as parents need to be able to voice our feelings without be targeted for doing so as well. so if he is supposed to get freedom of speach then why don't we as parents to parents deserve that. Why is it ok for some poeple to make fun of our concerns and not just listen or give advise why do some of you have to be so cruel to those of us who need somewhere to talk and get information from to help with our concerns. and it is hiding things under the rug that comes back and cause problem, not comments and concerns voiced, delt with, and put to rest. If people are not shown to be responsible for their actions then others will follow in the footsteps of the first knowing nothing will happen.
I just needed someone to let me know the facts, not names and medical info just that things were said in anger and I would have understood, left it alone and been ok. But nothing was said to that effect even when I called people. Just "ya it happend, so what, get over it" is pretty much what I was told. Makes a person a little uneasy don't ya think. and yes it is being delt with now but we had concerns and need to voice them to others with our concerns there is nothing wrong with that we are only human









[This message has been edited by eeyoor (edited 4/28/2007).]
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10198) 15 years ago
Chipmunk Ninja wrote:

>>You're over complicating things. . .

Perhaps I am. . . as this thread evinces, it's sometimes an easy thing to do.

Nonetheless, I'm inclined to agree with J. Dyba's sentiments. From what I've observed here and on other internet forums, those who don't hide behind a pseudonym are typically more credible. And I've found that on the whole those who don't use aliases lend themselves to more interesting discussions.

However I am aware that some folks do have good cause for disguising their identities. But I'm also aware that are those whose motives for doing so run the gamut from simple fear to the need for virtual Viagra.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17954) 15 years ago
I am so sad to see how well people in Miles City are able to write posts on an internet discussion board, after reading this thread. Richard Bonine said it best on this account, many, many posts ago.

The paragraph is a marvelous vehicle to get your point across. Droning endlessly does little to engage the interest of the reader. Harold Boe taught me this many years ago in the 70s, what the same time giving me an "F" in English....I would hate to see the high school English grades of the posters here.

While I am a hated, well-known jerk here who receives frequent hate-mail off-line, at least I have the courtesy to post using the Queen's English.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To eeyoor,

You are completely with in your rights to say whatever you want, it's your right. My comments concerning this issue are targeted at those that are purely ranting without checking the facts for themselves, for those that were so wildly pointing their fingers and were being so irrational with their conclusions. How can they say what they did just because they heard it from someone else? It's good to trust people but come on, have we become that gullible? How many times have you heard a story that seemed to be a little over-exaggerated? Now take that same story and put it through a couple of people and see how much more the story grows and changes.

Chipmunk Ninja

And to Mrs. Halley Neumann,

You've said nothing here to contribute to the conversation. if you're looking for "virtual Viagra," sorry I'm not your type and this isn't that sort of site, (I think you were looking for beastiality) I'm sorry if you were confused by my name.
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10198) 15 years ago
>> And to Mrs. Halley Neumann

Is that the best you can do? Pretty darned lame.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
Three out of the 4 comments from you on this thread are about me! You're right, I'm slowly becoming the victim of "E-stalking!" Thank you for warning me and then subsequently becoming so interested in what I have to say!

Your's Truly,

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 15 years ago
Eeyoor,

"I have made a few comments here and I am a little upset with the constant blame being on the parents. If this community had something for our teens to do that didn't cost some much money and something that all parents could afford that would solve a lot of the teen problems in this community"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know that this is the prevailing theory in town, however, have you ever seen the polls taken in the nation's biggest cities, i.e. New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, etc.? When polled, the vast majority of teenagers state that there is "nothing to do". Now, if there is nothing to do in some of the biggest cities in the world, I would say that this is not a problem we alone face.

It is a simple lack of ingenuity. There is plenty for one to do if one actually looks. Besides the obvious sports to play, clubs to belong to and school, what about working, volunteering, mentoring/coaching? Teenagers should not need to be entertained like toddlers. They are certainly capable of seeking out options to fill their time, without resorting to drugs and alcohol as the fill-in. But, I know, I know, "that's all there is to do around here (in my most pathetic, whiny voice)".

As Metallica puts it, boredom comes from a boring mind.
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Posted by Kacey (+3157) 15 years ago
Denise, you are right. I told my kids from the time they were little that they were too intelligent to be bored. They always found something to do. All different as night and day, yet found things to occupy their time. They developed hobbies, took up roller blading, bowling, took walks, went to the park, had friends over to play board games, joined clubs and organizations, did community service projects, etc. They never whined about lack of something to do as they got older. As parents it is our job to get our children to open their minds and imaginations.
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Posted by Chris Peterson (+159) 15 years ago
CHIPMUNK NINJA, I simply do not have the words to express myself. I really hope you are judged more forgivingly than you have shown the rest of us trashed worthless specs of pond scum. Your choice of names really doesn't suprise me. Makes me wonder who you think you are to pass such harsh judgement. Get a life. Its not an interest in what you say, but interesting how you enjoy your own dribble. You are quite full of yourself it seems.

[This message has been edited by Chris Peterson (edited 4/29/2007).]
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Chris Peterson,

I just want to thank you for starting this forum. You fell so willingly into the rumors, it's hilarious! Even in the letter your daughter wrote she states, "He said this to a teacher, so they took him away to a psych ward in Billings according to people around school." "According to people around school!" That's great, classic! I love the fact that you wrote "Assumption:" at the beginning, then presented things like they were the facts, when in reality your information was second-hand from your daughter who had heard it second/third/fourth-hand! "My attempt was to responsibly obtain the facts without starting a rumor mill by plainly stating what I knew was only ASSUMPTIONS." How can you reasonably obtain the facts when you automatically begin by referencing rumors, "assumptions," and hearsay, as fact? "hit list of 62 people had already been drafted, as well as detailed plans of his assault," really? Exactly 62? OH! Or maybe he said everyone that was 6`2", he said he`d line people up against the halls and measure them too (just in case)!! "Detailed plans of his assault!?" The high school's not exactly an impenetrable fortress. How did he plan on getting passed the guard dogs and lasers!? Do you believe everything you hear?

Lastly, "Makes me wonder who you think you are to pass such harsh judgment." As, again, being the person who began this forum, It didn't seem that you did a whole lot of research into whether or not the comments your daughter had heard were even legitimate before you began your judgments on how "people should lose their jobs" and how "The person should NEVER be allowed to attend this school again." Next time learn the FACTS before you comment. (oh, and by the way, I have more respect for "trashed worthless specs of pond scum" than I do for you!)

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1348) 15 years ago
You could probably lay off the personal attacks. You have good points that are not even being slightly considered because of the manner in which you deliver them.

Logic would indicate that a failure for an entire group to grasp what you're saying does not lie in the hands of the group.
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Posted by Mr. Natural (+64) 15 years ago
Lori: He was "dealed with"? I'm pretty sure the correction here would be dealt with with which he was not. Go back to grammar school, obviously you missed a class or two yourself!

(This is for Mr. Natural)

Wow, thanks Lori! I didn't even ask for my statements to be critiqued. Is that a new feature on MC.com? If so, great job and keep up the good work with getting totally off subject. I bet it didn't even take you that long to find it. You definitly didn't miss any classes in school and probably studied really hard for big test days. All "A"'s for you huh?

Also, to the Karate choppin Chipmunk. You're my new hero. Although your tactics are low and harsh at times, it's just what some of these people need. If you wrote a book I probably wouldn't be able to put it down.
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Mr. Natural,

Finally somebody gets it!! It's pretty sad when the real issue is ignored and they resort to grammar corrections! Obviously they knew what you were talking about in the first place. Your comment contradicted what they believed and you corrected them so they felt the need to correct you on something that was irrelevant. I love it!

And to your comment, which I'll quote, "Although your tactics are low and harsh at times, it's just what some of these people need." I'm just representing the opposite end of the spectrum, nobody likes to see their reflection for what it really is; they`re so used to looking at their, "mirror, mirror on the wall!" Some of these people sure can "hand it out" but when their publicly proven wrong they can't take it and resort to these childish acts. They're so used to arguing with their children and using the "because I said so," excuse when they are backed into a corner and realize that they`re wrong. That's why none of them can back up their arguments with reason or justification.

*Hy-Yah*

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by Bridgier (+9424) 15 years ago
Wait wait wait - Mr. Natural wants to ban me, but keep the rodent?
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Posted by Lori Barnett (+92) 15 years ago
[This message has been edited by Lori Barnett (edited 4/30/2007).]
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Posted by Chris Peterson (+159) 15 years ago
Mutant Ninja, had I your respect, I'd be embarrassed. I will not have a pissing contest on this forum. I respect it too much. Go ahead. Have the last word.
Freedom of speech applies to all. Nobody should be banned from here.

[This message has been edited by Chris Peterson (edited 4/29/2007).]
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Posted by Chipmunk Ninja (+68) 15 years ago
To Lori,

Looks like you're finally doing some research, I'm surprised you didn't quote the time too! I love the fact that you think this is about me. It's not. It's about the facts and it's about the youth. Both of which it seems you have no interest in. I've presented my point of view and represented it with FACTS and reason. It doesn't matter whether I'm 12 or 50 for me to have a legitimate argument.

Oh, and guess who's coming back to school!? That's right! The "alleged" plotter! By the way, the accused is not allowed to discuss this amongst others until after it's been settled in court. His defense being paid by our taxes. thought you should know, just in case you felt like starting a new forum.

Were you aware that the teen that first reported this is actually a troubled teen herself, in high school with one child at home and pregnant again. Can anyone say "attention hungry." Congratulations to the MC Star for giving her a hearty pat on the back!

To Chris Peterson...

Thanks for the nickname and thank you for leaving! You can't support your arguments and you shouldn`t be here. If you respected this forum, you would have legitimized your claims before posting and beginning this topic. (If this were a pissing contest, you wouldn't be able to keep up with the wind at your back)

Chipmunk Ninja
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Posted by eeyoor (+47) 15 years ago
I find it funny that we don't need to treat out teens like toddlers by finding something for them to do but we do have to with the adults by giving them more bars and casinos to go to. My point was like a teen center or club were they could go and hang out at night with friends and such not give them toys or bars or casinos for their entertainment
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Posted by Chris Peterson (+159) 15 years ago
Right on, eeyoor. Some do anonymity with class.

[This message has been edited by Chris Peterson (edited 4/30/2007).]
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 15 years ago
Bars and casinos keep popping up because they are for the most part profitable. I suspect that most businesspeople doubt the financial success of a teen center/club, or it would have been tried by now. It is almost always about the dollar.

Not that I disagree that it would be nice to have a teen club/hangout. Hopefully some entrepreneur will get ambitious. My point is that teens need to be held accountable, as well as the adults. Neither group needs to be spoon-fed entertainment like a child.
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