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Posted by Vince (+226) 15 years ago
What an outstanding letter to the public. I feel the information is something that the we as residents of Miles City need to hear. Jeffery Noble appears to be hard headed about the situation. Rather than do his civic duty he chose to nothing to correct the problem. I hope Dick can get this deal taken care of and restore his good name. I would like to see all of his legal fees reimbersed. This appears to be something very serious, for Dick to put this much time into. This is absolutely no way to treat our Vets and the REAL PUBLIC SERVANTS LIKE DICK HAY not the so called public servants jeffery noble.

Craig Miller
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1291) 15 years ago
Jonna,

Now that's the Dick I knew. So where does he go from here? And for Pete's sake can't someone put an end to this for Dick.
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Posted by Roxanna Brush (+120) 15 years ago
I'll take a t-shirt. Butch was right. I am interested in the turnout for the city council meeting.
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Posted by Betty Emilsson (+68) 15 years ago
I think the fact that he is still working at M&H attests to the fact that they believe he is innocent. This all gets back to the incompetance of the investigation and the lack of willingness to say, "I made a mistake" by the justice system. It seems pervasive doesn't it?
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Posted by Emilie Boyles (+252) 15 years ago
I'm trying to reach Ryan Powell that is listed in Mr. Hay's letter.
If anyone knows how to reach him in Miles City I'd appreciate it..or if you know how to reach him please ask him to call me ASAP.

Emilie Boyles
KXGN-TV5 (CBS)
406-377-3377
406-939-3378
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Posted by Jeremy Orthman (+441) 15 years ago
Gotta love MC, I think MC is the real life version of the show "Picket Fences."
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Posted by Dave Golterman (+237) 15 years ago
After reading this thread, I'm beginning to think the McPD logo on the side of the local police cars is very fitting.

Dave



[This message has been edited by Dave Golterman (edited 1/30/2007).]
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Posted by Dan (+458) 15 years ago
Gotta love MC, I think MC is the real life version of the show "Picket Fences."


every town in the world has their own drama, we're no better or worse than anyone else...

[This message has been edited by Dan (edited 1/31/2007).]
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Posted by Shu (+1801) 15 years ago
nothing new - just wanted to get the original thread on the subject back up to the top...how are the T-shirts coming?? I'd buy one if any were actually being made.
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2103) 15 years ago
Where is Eric and his video's of the council meetings???
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Posted by poisonspaghetti (+287) 15 years ago
As Mr. Hay has discovered, navigating the justice system is not easy. While I empathize with his frustration, I think he could have saved himself much of the trouble he encountered if, at the outset, he had taken some of the money he eventually spent mailing his "case" to the people of Miles City and invested it in an hour or two of the services of a good attorney. With all of the evidence that Mr. Hay seems to have to prove his innocence, an attorney could have had this taken care of in little time.

There are some things we should leave to experts: surgery, rocket science and defending oneself in court.
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Posted by Kacey (+3154) 15 years ago
From Mr. Hay's letter: "I have spent over S 12,000 in legal fees trying to get the false information, placed there by Mr. Noble, removed from the records." You cannot force a judge to do anything in Miles City even if you are an attorney.
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Posted by Susan Birdwell Pierson (+5) 15 years ago
Way to go, Uncle Dick. Keep up the fight-take it all the way to the Supreme Court. If T-shirts are printed count me in for 2. I think the proceeds from the T-shirt sales should go to Uncle Dick to help defray some of his legal costs.
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Posted by MGE (+8) 15 years ago
You know, if as many people (including the "Mayor") put up $10 as wrote a post in support of Mr. Hay, there'd be a few thousand bucks to help defer Mr. Hay's legal expenses. Then, someone could sponsor a resolution before the City Council to have the city pay the remainder of legal bills. Betcha anything if that happened, Dick would drop his Supreme Court appeal. If someone will take up a collection and promise to draft a resolution (how 'bout it Mr. Mayor?) I'll contribute a hundred bucks and I'll bet I could round up some more from people I know. This is Miles City's chance to do the right thing. Are you up to it?

MGE
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1291) 15 years ago
I'm would contribute some to Dick's cause, but feel it's the city's and Mr. Nobel's responsibility. Maybe lawyers, and city officials should carry malpractice insurance. With rapidly increasing premiums for those filling claims, maybe they would be more careful about the way they go about there business.

Miles City and the Mayor could put a stop to the supreme court case by doing the right thing. Someone needs to be held accountable for the sloppy investigation and prosecution of Mr. Hay's case.
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Posted by MGE (+8) 15 years ago
Chuck: I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately it's not, because the "haves" make the rules and they (the prosecutors and sometimes law enforcement) almost always have what's called "qualified immunity" from lawsuits for violation of a person's rights in the discharge of their official duties. They can discharge these duties in the most idiotic, dunderheaded, negligent and callous fashion and so long as they didn't purposely trump up the charges out of evidence deliberately and falsely manufactured by them, it's very hard to stay in court against them. The law says that prosecutors have "prosecutorial discretion" to run roughshod over the rights of guys like Dick Hay without fear of being held accountable so long as they didn't set out to maliciously and intentionally do harm. Then, their immunity allows them to publicly thumb their noses at their victims from the safe harbor that the law provides them.

As I see it, if anyone in Miles City cares to do anything more than blog about this, why doesn't someone start a "Dick Hay Legal Reimburesment Fund." Collect $6,000 and them DEMAND that the City pony up the rest. I'll put up $300 (up from $100 last night) if someone in Miles City will take a real stab at getting this off the ground.

Dick's got another option too. He could get a lawyer who would file a civil suit against the little $#&t who made up this phony story about buying beer "from the old guy with white hair" to cover for the real supplier of his hooch. Noble, Hom, and Barney Fife could all be compelled at that trial to testify about their "investigation" and their decision to charge Dick and then to dismiss it "without prejudice to refile should [Dick] offend again" and without giving Dick his day in court. Immunity only shields these guys from liability from their stupidity, not from being compelled to testify in a case to which they are not parties. Near as I can tell from reading all this bloggage, Dick practically has a verdict locked up in that case. Dick wins the case and gets a nice judgment against the "victim" of this heinous beer-selling scheme. Of course he never collects his judgment against the little pissant, and his lawyer never gets paid - because said pissant has no money- but Dick's name is at least cleared in a very public way and the shear idiocy of the decisions that were made by those who arrested him, charged him, and then didn't have the guts to dismiss this case with prejudice and without salting the public record with libelous comments about "making sure that Dick didn't offend again" could be held up to the harsh light of public scrutiny - as they ought to be. The verdict of the court of public opinion would be the last, best word on this whole affair.

Blog on Miles City! You have an opportunity to do something about this. Do more than just stand up for what's right. While the Court of Public Opinion is touted by all, it is the Court of Public Action that makes the most difference.
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Posted by Leopold B. Scotch (+17) 15 years ago
Author: Kacey Posted: 1/26/2007 3:01:04 PM
"For anyone question Miles City's law enforcement, just look back at the former employee, Tom Frank. I was surprised that he was actually found guilty and removed from his position. I would be more than suspicious of many of the cases he was involved with too. Again, he worked with Lissa Power. I still say it's time to take them all to task and clean out the bunch."

Mr. Kacey I'm not sure, if you knew this or not but Tom Frank was a County emplyee not a City emplyee.

also,

Here's something I think you all should read I got it from the Billings Gazette. I'll post more stuff later on what I think of the subject.


wrote on February 5, 2007 11:31 PM
Do you people realize what you are saying? Now I know there are some intelligent people posting here, so I am responding only to you. To the authority-haters that automatically get on here to slam judges, attorneys and the police you can move on from this comment because it doesnt pertain to you. What we have here is law enforcement trying to make a dent in the underage drinking problem (hey at least they are trying to do something instead of hiding somewhere listening to a cassette tape in their patrol cars right?). The question is, was it actually Mr. Hay that sold beer to a minor? Oh, Mr. Hay will tell you it wasnt. But the kid will tell you it was someone who looked just like him. Who is lying? Mr. Hay says it would be on video, but low and behold the tape has been recorded over by the convenience store. Mr. Hay will tell you "look at the receipts," but they are now gone because Mr. Hay says it isnt his job to collect the evidence to try and fight the charge, its the cop's job. Mr. Hay says he wasnt working on May 4 (I assume the beer was sold at the wee hours of the morning on the 4th) but that he actually got done working 10 minutes before midnight on the 3rd (gasp, just minutes before the selling of the beer, how convenient.) OK, so you have a 20 year old kid's word against Mr Hay's word, unless there are a bunch of other "older men, with whitish-gray hair and glasses" that also work at this small town convienence store, which I doubt highly. The police work WAS shoddy I agree, as in the least the officer should have looked at the surveillance tape. But my point is this: how many times have you, reading this, been a victim and called the police, and pointed to someone and said "he did it" and expect the police to arrest the guy just based on your word? Just because you told them "he did it?" You would be outraged if they didnt hook him up and haul him away, even if he says "no I didnt." Well, that is what is going on here. The court dropped the case because of a shoddy investigation. That doesnt mean Mr. Hay did NOT do the crime. Remember that. It is easier for them to drop it if it will be a hard court battle due to lack of evidence. He never should have been charged in the first place just based on poor investigation, but just how many of you out there want the cops to arrest someone else just based on YOUR word? And when they dont due to "lack of evidence", you pop a cork. Simple fact is, people lie. My question is, how do you know Mr. Hay isnt the one lying here?



[This message has been edited by Leopold B. Scotch (edited 2/7/2007).]
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1344) 15 years ago
The circumstances behind the kid turning Mr. Hay in are what negates the legitimacy of the claim. It's illegal to sue someone if you don't have "clean hands" yourself. That sort of thing.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3707) 15 years ago
If Mr. Hay was lying, he would probably have been happy to have gotten off and he'd be keeping his mouth shut. People who are guilty of a crime but got away with it don't usually continuously bring up he issue in public and demand that the case be re-opened.

As far as taking up a collection, I have no idea what Mr. Hay's financial situation is and I'm sure he would like to have his money back, but that sort of misses the point. He spent the money in the first place to have his record cleared. Getting some of the money back but still having the offending mark on his record just puts him back where he started.
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Posted by Chuck Schott (+1291) 15 years ago
MGE, You make some very good points, and appear to be a very generous
person. There is only a couple of problems with your suggestion. First Miles City is not what you would call an affluent community and raising $6000 dollars would be very hard. Secondly I serious doubt if Dick would even consider taking money from his friends and neighbors, that is just the kind of guy he is. But if someone wants to give it a try I'll go for $50 dollars towards his continuing legal battle or a settlement with the city. I thank you for you input it has been informative although I did realize that the powers to be where free from legal recourse.

I like your second idea very much and hope Dick take a good look at the option of filing civil suit against the little SOB who claimed he sold the beer. Remember though he did not name dick by name only by description, and he has that to stand on.
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Posted by Leopold B. Scotch (+17) 15 years ago
I think this whole thing has been blown out of proportion. The only version the public has is Mr. Hay's "poor me version." How many of us in the "public" even knew about this before Mr. Hay's brought it to our attention over and over while he beat a horse to death over it. It's amazing to see how many of you are so eager to jump on this hate bandwagon. What I don't understand is how can so many people make so many ignorant comments and opinions on something they only have one version of. Get over it already. This is a clear case of making a mountain out of a mole hill. Mr. Hay's....your attorney ripped you off and laughed about it on his way to the bank. By the way, the multiple page "poor me" mailing I received made great fire starter.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3707) 15 years ago
Anyone from the other side of this would be welcome to defend themselves. I would expect that they would want to if someone was telling lies about them, but don't seem to be interested in making a public rebuttal. Maybe you have some information that those on the "ignorant hate bandwagon" do not? I have not heard anyone make a claim that any part of this letter was not true. Mr. Noble was quoted in the Billings Gazette and had the opportunity to deny anything in the letter, but his only comment was that he didn't understand why Mr. Hay was upset. Obviously the court doesn't think any action is necessary, but if they believe the allegations are not true, they haven't made an effort to deny them.

Whether he's making too much of it is a matter of opinion, but what makes you think that it's not true?

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 2/7/2007).]
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 15 years ago
To quote Roger Daltrey and The Who, "It's a legal matter baby, a legal matter from now on."

The case is still pending so you shouldn't expect anyone from the other side to say anything anywhere other than in court proceedings. Mr. Hay's counsel should be advising him to keep clam as well.

Truly, Dick Hay is wasting his time pleading his case to the people of Miles City while there is litigation pending. And we're wasting our time discussing it until the case is closed.
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Posted by Kacey (+3154) 15 years ago
Leopold,
People like you are the reason the people in power keep getting away with their crap in Miles City. Open your eyes. You could be next.
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Posted by Leopold B. Scotch (+17) 15 years ago
Very well said David Schott. "The case is still pending so you shouldn't expect anyone from the other side to say anything anywhere other than in court proceedings. Mr. Hay's counsel should be advising him to keep clam as well."

Also, I did not use the phrase "ignorant hate bandwagon". The terms were used separately and with different context.

The point I am trying to make is unless you know first hand what happened with this whole situation from beginning to end, how can people be so eager to place hate and blame.



[This message has been edited by Leopold B. Scotch (edited 2/7/2007).]
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Posted by Dick Hay (+6) 15 years ago
One point in your argument is the fact that the "victim" also said he purchased two 18-packs of beer around midnight, was caught arrested at 2:30 and the police didn't confiscate any beer. That means the two people had to drink 36 cans of beer in 21/2 hours. Why didn't the police confiscate any beer. At that time M&H put a little white tag with a number on the beer cartons to use at the cash registers. None of these were available to use as evidence. There was not even any evidence offered to show the children had any beer in their possesion. What would you do if the prosecutng attorney put on your record that you are a person who needs and "incentive to not commit further violations of the law" then refuses to let you have a jury trial or remove this from your file?
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3707) 15 years ago
We're wasting our time discussing it regardless of litigation But it's entertaining.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (edited 2/7/2007).]
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Posted by Leopold B. Scotch (+17) 15 years ago
Poor me!
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Posted by Shu (+1801) 15 years ago
Hey Leopold...IF that is your real name,

How do we know which side is honest? Simple...why would Mr. Hay pony-up 12,000 smackers to clear his name if it wasn't the truth? You cannot compare it to Ryan Powell's side of the story because Powell won't present his side! It's fair for one to conclude, then, that Powell doesn't have much to present because his side is false, and has no evidence whatsoever to back it up! Say what you want to about "his attourney is telling him to keep quiet while the case is pending" but what evidence has Powell offered other than his word vs. Hay's word? Mr. Hay's side offers evidence, at least. Powell's does not. You also seem incapable of understanding what INTEGRITY means to some of us, or you wouldn't bother with this blog at all. For some of us, our integrity means more than any dollar amount ever could, which is why Mr. Hay is going through all the trouble and expense of all this.

By the way, I happen to know that "Leopold Stotch" (or Scotch, as you call yourself) is the real name of the character known as Butters on the SOUTH PARK cartoon on Comedy Central.
I also happen to know that Butters Stotch is a pansy character on that show - very naive, easily taken advantage of, constantly picked-on, and gullible...yeah, nice character to name yourself after.

Yeah, you are right...POOR YOU!!!
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Posted by Leopold B. Scotch (+17) 15 years ago
Shu,
First, I would like to point out that just because you spend a large amount of money defending yourself in a court of law doesn't mean you are not guilty of a crime. For instance, let us refer to the O.J. Simpson Trial. Tons of money was spent on this trial and he was found not guilty but yet millions of people still believe he did kill that girl. I'm not saying that I believe Mr. Hay is guilty or not. He may or may not be.

And to your comments about INTEGRITY...

First off, dictionary.com defines integrity as "adherence to moral and
ethical principles; soundness of moral character" and I believe myself to be a person of great integrity. I find that now I don't believe INTEGRITY
really applies to you because you have referred to my moral character as
being a cartoon who's a pansy, naive, easily taken advantage of, constantly picked-on, and gullible. So in short, keep your mind from being so closed and remember there is more to this story then one version.
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Posted by Kacey (+3154) 15 years ago
I would like to suggest to "Leopold" that if he simply wants to argue instead of support Dick Hay that he start a new forum. Then the rest of us don't have to wade through his diatribes in order to keep up on Mr. Hay.
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1344) 15 years ago
I think anonymous posting should be banned from MC.com 2.0.

I checked out dictionary.com lets see what I found:

cow·ard
-noun 1. a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
-adjective 2. lacking courage; very fearful or timid.
3. proceeding from or expressive of fear or timidity: a coward cry.

-Synonyms 1. craven, poltroon, dastard, recreant, milksop.



Hold on, I think I see a shoe around here that fits....
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Posted by Bridgier (+9307) 15 years ago
Maybe MilesCity2.0 will allow threads to be marked "Idealogically Pure", so that people like Leopold don't get confused.

Just to keep this thread on track: I would kill a man for Dick.
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Posted by Shu (+1801) 15 years ago
Leopold,

This is the last time I will respond to you because I have better things to do than argue with a person like yourself who just doesn't get it.

I KNEW you were going to misinterpret what I said about your cartoon-character screen name, which is one reason I made the comment...sure enough, you did! If you look at my previous comment, I said:
"I happen to know that "Leopold Stotch" (or Scotch, as you call yourself) is the real name of the character known as Butters on the SOUTH PARK cartoon on Comedy Central. I also happen to know that Butters Stotch is a pansy character on that show - very naive, easily taken advantage of, constantly picked-on, and gullible...yeah, nice character to name yourself after."
So you tell me; where did I say that necessarily means YOU are a pansy, etc.. I did not say you are any of those things, and you know it! I said the character you named your screen name after is. That doesn't necessarily mean YOU are. Heck, I don't even know who you are (on account of the fact that you don't have the guts or INTEGRITY to state your name on this blog). As for me, I have said before on this website that I am Shumon "Shu" Pius, a Miles City Native and former sports director at KATL radio now alive, well and married with 2 kids in Minnesota. Those who know me best know very well that I employ "adherence to moral and ethical principles; and soundness of moral character"...so, who the h**l are you?..besides an opinionated person who is apparantly the only one blogging here on your side of this issue?...And a person with a bad habit of putting words in other peoples' mouths? I know very well that there is more than one side to every story but my point, again, is that Ryan Powell WON'T PRESENT his side and Dick has done so and offered evidence to back it up...that plus I've known Dick myself for a lot longer than you have, or else you wouldn't be casting stones here. That's all I have to say to you. GO DICK GO!!!
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Posted by Shu (+1801) 15 years ago
Dyba,

"I checked out dictionary.com lets see what I found:

cow·ard...Hold on, I think I see a shoe around here that fits...."

I hope you're not referring to me - if you are, point out any cowardly thing I've said.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3707) 15 years ago
This thread is going downhill fast.
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1344) 15 years ago
As long as there is a ramp at the bottom it's all good.
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Posted by Rene Mowry (+8) 15 years ago
My husband and I lived across the street from Mr. & Mrs. Hay for over 27 years. They were entirely respectable and honest people. They were good neighbors and offered a helping hand when it was needed. I admire Dick for fighting back. He's always had a good, solid reputation, and it is being attacked. Someone said his attitude is one of "Poor me." That's far from the truth. Dick is a newspaper man, for one thing, and knows how to fight for important principles. I doubt that Mr. Noble realized that Dick wasn't one to just take this lying down without a fight.

Dick Hay, I think you're right in making sure your good name is not tarnished by some lawyer who doesn't have the sense to think before he acts.
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Posted by Kacey (+3154) 15 years ago
An editorial in today's Gazette mentioning Mr. Hay:
http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2007/02/11/opinion/letters/80-hay.txt
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 14 years ago
I wasn't sure which "Dick Hay" thread to tack this onto but this one seems to have the most posts... so here goes:

"Aftermath of Ignorance Gone To Seed" (Part 1)

A paid advertisement from the April 16, 2007, edition of the Miles City Star newspaper:

http://www.flickr.com/pho...2050774824

"Aftermath of Ignorance Gone To Seed" (Part 2)

A paid advertisement from the April 30, 2007, edition of the Miles City Star newspaper:

http://www.flickr.com/pho...2050774824
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1659) 14 years ago
Thanks for that, but it is already quite dated itself. Is there any resolution yet?

Cheers!
FH
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 14 years ago
Sorry, Frank, but that's how far behind I am on reading my Miles City Star's. I'll keep plugging away at them and as I find any new information I'll post it. In the meantime, if anyone knows the resolution please speak up.

- Dave
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Posted by Emilie Boyles (+252) 14 years ago
The case is now with the State Supreme Court and and a verdict is anticipated in late spring, 2008.
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 14 years ago
Thanks for the update, Emilie.

Below is a link to one more paid advertisement related to the matter.

- Dave

"Aftermath of Ignorance Gone To Seed" (Part 3)

A paid advertisement from the May 27, 2007, edition of the Miles City Star newspaper:

http://www.flickr.com/pho...539&size=o
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1659) 13 years ago
Ahem.....bump.

Cheers!
FH
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1659) 8 days ago
So I know it's been 13 more years, but how did this case end?


FH
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 8 days ago
Reply to Frank Hardy (#383470)
Hay v. City of Miles City

https://www.anylaw.com/ca...TomsSBqOrh
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Posted by Richard Bonine (+15082) 7 days ago
To summarize: Miles City made hay while the Powers was out. 🤠 You’re welcome. Now go eat a hotdog 🌭.
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Posted by David Schott (+17514) 6 days ago
Reply to Richard Bonine (#383474)
"Sweet cheeks" comes to mind, Richard.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1659) 5 days ago
Now I cannot resist.

This stanza is sung to the tune “Who Let the Dogs Out?”
The Citizens of Miles City are asking the question and Liisa Powers is singing the answer.

Who sold the kid Beer? Dick Dick Dick Hay
Who sold the kid Beer? Dick Dick Dick Hay
Who sold the kid beer? Dick Dick Dick Hay??
Who sold the kid beer?

Now we change to the always fantastic song “We Are the Champions”
Sung entirely by Dick Hay

I read the news
That’s in the Star
I faced a sentence
But committed no crime.

And past mistakes
I’ve made some too
I’ve sold some crap to the kids that gives the dentist kids shoes!!
And you can charge on and on and on and on

I never sold that kid beer
I’ll spend a fortune to clear
The good Dick Hay name
I’m taking no blame!
Take that now Liisa
You don’t have the Power
You’ll looooose.

I’ll take any vow.
That I wasn’t there
You say I did this and that and everything that goes with it
I hate you all

But it’s not been easy
To clear my name
You refused to even watch the tape
That refuted your claim
I’m not a champion my friend
But I kept on fighting to the end.
I didn’t do it.
I did not do it
I’m not a loser I need to refuse her
Cause I’ve been accused…..and you lose.


FH
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