You should see the other guy...
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Wow that scary..me and my husband live in miles city and we have a 1 year old child...thank u for sharing this info..i dont listen to the radio or hear much because i dont get the paper either...again thank u for keeping us all updated on whats goin on around this town or close to it...
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Posted by Big Dave (+434) 9 years ago
Is this Doug Nelson of Doug Nelson Trucking?
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
The name in the story is Douglas Robert Larson, not Nelson.
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Posted by Big Dave (+434) 9 years ago
Thanks Levi
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Posted by Diesel (+184) 9 years ago
Those people definately had luck on their side for the gun to have not gone off! Had a little someone watchin over them on that day I should say. Thank goodness no one was killed
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Proof that guns don't kill people.
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
Pretty sad that the Billings gazette had a better write up and a picture then our own local paper did.

[This message has been edited by cubby (6/6/2012)]
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Posted by Edgewood (+26) 9 years ago
Pretty sad that people almost get shot and killed and you're worried about a newspaper article.
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
How does stating a fact translate into worry?
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
Who said any thing about worried?
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
Someone tell me why there shouldn't be an online public database of persons issued Concealed Weapons Permits in Montana, just as there is for Registered Sex Offenders.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
What would that accomplish?

If "Former" had been at the VFW this man would probably be dead by now. That makes 2 times in 1 week "Former" failed to be at the scene of the crime in time to save the day. Superheroes these days just aren't what they used to be.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Exalted, don't you know a list is the first step to Obama's anti-gun army showing up to confiscate weapons?
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
Who said any thing about worried?


Ummm...Edgewood did.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
I'm a little slow today, if there are permits there must be a list. I'll still blame Obama's anti-gun army.
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
Good point, David. Far be it for a "touchy-feely pacifist" like me or other "libtards" to throw cold water on the shoot 'em up fantasies of uber-patriotic gunslingers like Former.

To your question, though: "What would that accomplish?"

People slide, especially due to substance abuse or as a reaction to personal crisis. Someone who qualifies for a CWP today might be a complete wreck in six months. A public database would help prevent incidents like this from occurring if a family member, friend, or neighbor recognized at-risk behavior before it morphed into gun violence by notifying the sheriff directly so that an out-of-compliance permittee could have his CWP revoked.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
Do you really think taking away their CWP will keep them from using their gun(s)? What you're really saying is you wish to deny gun ownership to the downtrodden and mentally ill. Good luck with that one.
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
Did Larsen have a CWP or did he go get the gun from home or in a car or was he carring with out a CWP? Anyone know for sure?
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
Clearly he didn't have a CWP as he wouldn't have been permitted to bring his concealed weapon into a bar. Right?

Makes me think of the old bit about, "Locks only keep honest people out." CWP's only keep honest (and sane) people from bringing their weapons into bars, banks, public parks, and government buildings...
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
Yes, I'm saying that the mentally ill should not own or carry firearms, concealed or otherwise. That's been the law since the passage of the Gun Control Act of 1968. Obviously, enforcement is difficult, which is where the registered sex offender approach could help.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
What you want is a database of the mentally ill and permission for law enforcement to enter their home at any time to check for and confiscate firearms. It has nothing to do with CWP's, does it?

Maybe we could require the confirmed mentally ill to have a tattoo on their forehead or some other way to identify them. That way you would know to quickly leave the bar via the back door when they came in the front door.
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
Don't put words into my mouth, David, unless you'd like me to do the same for you.

What I've suggested is pretty clear: a public database of those who have been issued Concealed Weapons Permits, modeled after the registered sex offender program, so that the public can assist law enforcement in identifying at-risk personalities in order to prevent incidents like this last one at the VFW Hall.

Peace.
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
If your talking about letting th public of Miles City assist in determining who is in sound mind to be able to have a CWP you must be nuts. That would just have the MCPD running all over MC tring to determine if some people are nuts.
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
Just like the Nazis, it starts with identification.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
Just look for that "look" in their eyes.

*




* Jared Loughner apparently didn't have a CWP.
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
As Buck pointed out earlier, Kelly, those lists already exist and those on them have willingly self-identified in exchange for the extralegal privilege of carrying concealed and loaded weapons. How do you justify denying the public access to that information as a matter of public safety?
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
No, I was talking about identification of the mentally ill.
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Posted by Wayne White (+255) 9 years ago
Douglas my friend, WOW.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
They need to require all bar entrances to have body scanners and friskers. Front door and back. Side doors even.
No really, there probably is a hell of an interesting story behind this near tragedy. I can't wait to hear it. Sounds like mental illness is a factor. Too bad.
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Posted by K. D. (+362) 9 years ago
Cubby asked, to which no one has answered yet:
Did Larsen have a CWP or did he go get the gun from home or in a car or was he carring with out a CWP? Anyone know for sure?


And, I am just guessing here, Exalted is just assuming that he had one. Even if he did not have one, that still does not permit him from owning a fire arm. Having a CWP means exactly what it stands for, concealed. Exalted is just arguing a point which becomes moot if he did not have a CWP.

[This message has been edited by K. D. (6/6/2012)]
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 9 years ago
I'd think a guy with a cwp could make his gun work, even if he was drunk.

By the way. You shouldn't be pointing guns at John Jackson. If you keep that up he'll be an angry young man some day.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5094) 9 years ago
Elvis has left the building
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Posted by morrison (+12) 9 years ago
just a little bit of searching will reveal that cwp permit holders are law abiding folks. The percentage of cwp holders who commit crimes is very very small. It is a pita to get a permit with a fair amount of checks involved. Some folks don't even get them for the ability to carry but for the purchase privelage's involved. What would you do in the states that do not require a cwp permit to carry concealed? Or maybe better yet a database that holds the info on all guns purchased like Canada and New York. But then again they no longer do this as it has proven to be a huge waste of money with almost no crimes solved via the database.
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Posted by Exalted Buckaroo (+249) 9 years ago
[c]Concealed Weapons Permit Holders


Ian Lee Stawicki - Seattle, WA.
Shot and killed 4 persons at a neighborhood cafe before shooting another woman during a carjacking and then taking his own life when confronted by police.
May 30, 2012


George Zimmerman - Sanford, FL.
Charged with second-degree murder for shooting and killing an unarmed juvenile.
February 26, 2012


U.S. Army Major Nidal Malik Hasan - Ft. Hood, TX.
Shot and killed 13 persons, wounding 29 others, on the largest military base in the U.S.
November 5, 2009

Shall I continue with my research?
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
Joe: "Doug's been acting a little weird lately, don't you think?"

Fred: "Yeah, he's been all out of sorts lately, and you know what a gun nut he is. I hope he doesn't snap."

Joe: "Let me check the Concealed Weapons Permit database. Nope, he doesn't have one."

Fred: "No problem, then?"

Joe: "Agreed. Let's head down to the VFW for a cold one."
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Well i heard that the reason he had his gum..was because he had gotten into a fight with the 2 men he tried shooting...then left the vfw,went home grabbed his gun and went back to the vfw..does ny one know if this is correct...i dont know the facts,or the people involved..just asking if this is what happened or if any one knows..
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
IMO, anyone with an anger management problem probably shouldn't be carrying a gun...he should leave it home in his closet unloaded LOL...
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2042) 9 years ago
Especially don't carry "gum". Really dangerous
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Wow Tom Masa your pathetic..so i misspelled "gun" big deal you all knew what i meant..Grow up and act your age..no one is perfect..
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
Hotshot, before you go calling people names why don't you go read some of your other posts. Your spelling and grammer are pathetic. Just saying you should know better then that on this site.
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
I dont care if my spelling is pathetic and incorrect....that does not give you or any one else the right to make/poke fun...thats like making fun of someone that is mentally handicap and doesnt know how to speak right..are u goin to make fun of them cause they say something wrong.NO i dont think so...like i said people are not perfect..its sad when this is a serious situation and i was just asking a simple question,instead of listening to rumors i was trying to get it from the source and people pick something small out like a spelling error and make it bigger then it needs to be...Come on now...pretty sad that this is what things are coming down to this day in age..
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2042) 9 years ago
Geez can't you have a laugh. Don't take life so serious.If not learn to spell or at least proof read.
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
W/E go on and have a great day now...god bless everyone...
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Posted by Rob Willy (+37) 9 years ago
hotshot92 said:
"...i was just asking a simple question,instead of listening to rumors i was trying to get it from the source..."


I think you came to the wrong place.
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Why do u say "i think u came to the wrong place",instead of listening to rumors i came here made a comment to see if someone that was there or knows the situation or people involved could explain it to us instead of speculating and starting nonsense rumors...Listen people i dont want any trouble or to fight with any one.this is not what milescity.com was intended for im sure..im just curious as to whats going on in the town i live in..thats all..i understand that we are all not going to get along or agree or believe what everyone else is saying...
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
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Posted by Maryann McDaniel (+249) 9 years ago
For those of you who do not know, this is the star center of the Sacred Heart Shamrocks Basketball Team that won the state playoffs in 1965. I know as I was Doug's girlfriend at the time and off and on for several years until he left Montana in the Air Force. The team was coached by Dan Connors and consisted of some great athletes -- Marty Derrig, Mick Gapay, Dan Minkoff, Doug Larson, and Jack Regan. I am certain Coach Connors would be as heartbroken as I am to see what is going on with Doug.

Sorry to read about this. I hope Doug finds peace.

Here is an article about Coach Connors.

http://mtstandard.com/sports/high-school/article_c60054a1-7cbd-5ebb-9cc9-5ffbee334357.html
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
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Posted by Wayne White (+255) 9 years ago
Peoples lives are on the line and you are worried about gun or gum geeeeze.
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Exactly...Wayne White..
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Well i heard that the reason he had his gum..was because he had gotten into a fight with the 2 men he tried shooting

Yup, that Doublemint is dangerous.
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Posted by Mufasa (+92) 9 years ago
Richard:

Did you have an encounter with the twins? Do tell!
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1905) 9 years ago
I don't know who Rob Willey is, but he has obviously been frequenting mc.com.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Only in my dreams!
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Posted by KM Connors (+8) 9 years ago
First let me say that I am in no way condoning or making excuses for this incident. I feel for the individuals and families involved. Doug did play for my dad years ago and they were good friends up until my dad died. I haven't seen Doug for a few years but this seems out of character from the guy I knew. I have always found him to be a real friendly and engaging person. I'm sure that the good people of Miles City will support his family through this ordeal. They are fine people. This is just a sad situation for all involved.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
I dont care if my spelling is pathetic and incorrect....that does not give you or any one else the right to make/poke fun...thats like making fun of someone that is mentally handicap and doesnt know how to speak right..are u goin to make fun of them cause they say something wrong.NO i dont think so...like i said people are not perfect..its sad when this is a serious situation and i was just asking a simple question,instead of listening to rumors i was trying to get it from the source and people pick something small out like a spelling error and make it bigger then it needs to be...Come on now...pretty sad that this is what things are coming down to this day in age..


Hopefully, you will be open to some perspective:

Have you ever considered that the reason people are correcting you is because we really care how you appear to others? Have you ever considered we want you to be the best Hotshot92 you can be, and that when u r splng like this u r sum might think of u as "notshot92"? Have you ever considered that this is a public space and that for every poster there are 6 lurkers who never post; and those of us who post take great pride that people who post appear articulate because it represents Miles City, MT?

Something to think about.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (6/8/2012)]
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Hotshot92 is just a name..i m not a hotshot nor do i want to be...and representing miles city come on...no town,city or state is perfect...WE ALL HAVE FLAWS..i mean miles city "is/or was" in the world book of records for beating Mardi gras for most alcohol consumed in one weekend(bucking horse)and u are worried about my bad spelling and AND ALL I DID WAS COME ON HERE AND ASK A QUESTION ABOUT A SERIOUS MATTER and all some of u people care about is how i spell...really tells everyone what is MORE important to some of u people...and i know some of u are goin to post a smart comment back to what i said^^^ go ahead i dont care YALL HAVE A GREAT DAY AND MAY GOD BLESS "EVERYONE"

[This message has been edited by hotshot92 (6/8/2012)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Richard said:

Hopefully, you will be open to some perspective:


I'll take your response as a "No".
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Posted by hotshot92 (+472) 9 years ago
Richard Bonine, Jr. i hope u have a very wonderful day today....

[This message has been edited by hotshot92 (6/8/2012)]
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Posted by Fidella Dunning Brown (+3) 9 years ago
Hey Kathy,
I agree with you Sister! Maybe this crisis will be a catalyst for help and change in Doug's life. I actually asked your dad to look down and help Doug walk through this dark place he must be in. I offer my prayers for him and his wonderful family. They could use a little compassion now, I'm thinking.
Fidella

[This message has been edited by Fidella Dunning Brown (6/10/2012)]
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Posted by Mrs. M (+711) 9 years ago
Amen to Ms. Brown's post.
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Posted by David Schott (+17052) 9 years ago
The Seattle Times: A lifetime of rage, a shocking final act


A lifetime of rage, a shocking final act

Ian Stawicki's history is dotted with failure, rejection, delusions, violence and a strong interest in guns. His family now regrets they did not push harder to get him mental-health treatment before Wednesday's massacre.

By Jennifer Sullivan and Jonathan Martin
Seattle Times staff reporters

Ian Stawicki woke up Wednesday morning in a good mood, with plans to help his girlfriend's mother move into a new home in Tacoma.

But first, he was going to stop for coffee, said Stawicki's father, Walter Stawicki.

Stawicki's sunny mood was a welcome change for his family. The 40-year-old had been erratic, argumentative and full of rage for years, but especially so recently, according to his father.

Stawicki stopped just before 11 a.m. at Cafe Racer, an artistic, quintessentially Seattle coffee shop in the University District. But the barista asked him to leave, apparently because of Stawicki's belligerent behavior in front of a group of elderly customers just last week.

Stawicki sat down momentarily, then, as one customer was leaving, stood up and suddenly opened fire, shooting several people in the head.

Stawicki's bloody spree - five killed (and one injured), including a second shooting on First Hill as he was on the run - didn't end until nearly five hours later when, confronted by police in West Seattle, he dropped to his knees and shot himself in the head.

His family is struggling to make sense of the violence. But those who knew Stawicki say his history is dotted with clues, including failures, social rejection, episodes of apparent delusions, spasms of violence and a strong interest in guns.

Walter Stawicki, 65, believes that his son grew more and more lucid in the hours following the shootings, realizing what he had done, and killed himself to take responsibility.

Walter Stawicki said that his son was "a gentleman," but regrets he didn't act to have his son committed for mental-health care.

"I recognized the patterns. I saw him as being manic-depressive."

Early signs

Ian Lee Stawicki was born in Santa Barbara, Calif., the first of Walter and Carol Stawicki's three children. The Stawicki family settled on Seattle's Beacon Hill to be close to Carol Stawicki's family, Walter Stawicki said.

Ian Stawicki showed signs of autism and had learning disorders. He struggled to read, write and focus his attention, his father said.

Stawicki went to alternative schools before obtaining a GED diploma. He joined the Army at 17, Walter Stawicki said.

Walter Stawicki, a self-admitted draft dodger in the 1960s, said his son was stationed at Fort Drum, N.Y., and did training in Panama. But Ian Stawicki suffered a head injury from a grenade concussion during a training exercise and was discharged two years later, his father said.

The Army has no record of his ever serving in the Army, spokeswoman Lt. Col Laurel Devine said Thursday.

At 19 and jobless, Ian Stawicki began a string of odd jobs - commercial fishing in Alaska and working as a roadie for local bands.

The Stawicki family moved to Ellensburg in the 1990s, settling into a ramshackle property north of the Central Washington University campus. Ian Stawicki joined them sporadically but also lived for periods in Portland and Seattle.

Stawicki was a big fan of Seattle's punk-rock music scene, said his brother Andrew Stawicki.

.

Jamie Pflughoeft dated Ian Stawicki in the early 1990s, when both were in the punk scene, and remembers him as both charming and paranoid, "a little off." He slept with a gun under his pillow and was a skilled marksman, she said.

"I felt like he would protect me. I never felt like he would hurt me in any way," said Pflughoeft, who said she hadn't seen Stawicki nearly two decades.

Well-armed

Despite odd behavior, he didn't get in serious trouble until 2008. By then he was well-armed.

He bought six .45-caliber or 9-mm handguns since 1993, including .45-caliber handguns in 2006 and 2008 from Lynnwood and Bothell gun shops.

It is unclear if any of these guns was used in Wednesday's shootings, but Jim Pugel, assistant Seattle police chief, said the guns Stawicki used were not stolen.

Seattle and Kittitas County police issued him gun permits, including one that was good through 2015, according to records released Thursday by the Seattle City Attorney's Office.

He did not appear to have any felony convictions, which would disqualify him from gun ownership, and the state Department of Social and Health Services has no record of Stawicki receiving public mental-health care, including being committed to a state psychiatric hospital, said spokesman Thomas Shapley.

One of Stawicki's ex-girlfriends, who he dated for three years, noticed his personality "suddenly changed" in late 2007, when he began flying into a violent rages, according to a domestic-violence court filing. In February 2008, she came home to find Stawicki smashing more than $1,000 worth of belongings, including her computer monitor and vinyl-record collection.

When she tried to call 911, "All of a sudden I was on the ground and my nose was bleeding," she told police.

He grabbed his .45-caliber handgun and fled into nearby Discovery Park before a police K9 unit tracked him down.

He was charged with four domestic violence-related misdemeanors, but the charges were dismissed when the woman filed a sworn statement to Stawicki's attorney, Michael Kolker of Seattle, disputing the police report. Kolker declined to comment.

Two years later, in March 2010, Stawicki displayed similar rage when, according to police report, he attacked his brother, Andrew, at their family's Ellensburg home. Stawicki said he "was blind" because of his younger brother, and began punching him in front of their mother.

Andrew Stawicki said the incident is the reason he stopped talking to his brother.

Ian Stawicki was again charged with misdemeanor assault, and represented by Kolker. This time it was his mother disputing the police report, describing it as a verbal, not physical, confrontation, and prosecutors dropped the charges.

"A real loud mouth"

Stawicki, who adopted the nickname "Spider Wolf," tried to fall in with a crowd of musicians and artistic regulars at Cafe Racer, including Joe Albanese and Drew Keriakedes, two of the shooting victims. "They socialized with him on a couple of occasions," said Albanese's brother-in-law, Brian Paterik of Buckley.

But the two men distanced themselves as they learned more about Stawicki's strange and potentially dangerous behavior. Cafe Racer owner Kurt Geissel saw it too, as did other nearby businesses.

"Everybody has their own personality and their own quirks and we don't try to fault people for who they are," Geissel said. "Everyone has a bad day. But he was consistently not all there."

Stawicki was asked to leave Cafe Racer last Friday after making a scene in front of several retired University of Washington professors, Geissel said.

"He was a real loud mouth. Just super negative. Swearing and cussing really loud," he said.

The motive for Wednesday's massacre is unknown. Pugel called it "senseless." Paterik believes it might be revenge directed at Albanese and Keriakedes. Whatever the reason, Stawicki "apparently came back purposefully," Paterik said.

Walter Stawicki also had seen his son's behavior recently devolve. He told his girlfriend that he was actually married and the father of six, and told others that he was on a CIA death squad, his father said.

Though his son had long battled mental illnesses, his father didn't think there was anything they could do to get him help. Andrew Stawicki said that his brother didn't want to talk about his delusions.

His family never pushed to have Stawicki committed because they'd never heard him threaten to hurt himself, Walter Stawicki said.

Now, Walter Stawicki regrets he didn't force a mental-health intervention, even if it meant lying to say his son posed an imminent risk.

"We let him down and we let a lot of other people down, too, by not effectively being able to intervene," Walter Stawicki said.

"I'm grieving for him, I'm grieving for his mother, I'm grieving for his brother. I'm grieving for six other families."

Seattle Times staff reporters Jack Broom, Hal Bernton, Mike Carter, Susan Kelleher, Jayme Fraser and Lynn Thompson, and news researchers Miyoko Wolf and Gene Balk contributed to this report.

Jennifer Sullivan: 206-464-8294 or [email protected] On Twitter @SeattleSullivan.

Jonathan Martin: 206-464-2605 or [email protected] On Twitter @jmartin206
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