Discrimination
Posted by alhajmh2 (+164) 11 years ago
So i was discriminated against, by a landlord, because i had children. I just want to find a place so my children can move back home with me while i take care of my father, but noooooooo! This is absolutely wrong! its going to come down to me having to live in a motel with them, i guess landlords are just greedy, could careless if a mother and her 2 children have no place to live and all i am trying to do is live simple, take care of my father, and work..
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Posted by Monica LN (+146) 11 years ago
We've been discriminated against as well for having children. It is illegal but it will happen. Good luck finding a place. It took us over a year to find a decent place to rent and we live 20 miles from MC.

[This message has been edited by Monica LN (4/5/2012)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
Seems like you now have a choice:

A. bitch about it here
B. Contact HUD and provide the details of your case to them. Make sure they followup with that landlord. If a few landlords get busted for this kind of behavior it may stop. It won't stop if you exercise only option A.


In the Sale and Rental of Housing: No one may take any of the following actions based on race, color, national origin, religion, sex, familial status or handicap:

Refuse to rent or sell housing
Refuse to negotiate for housing
Make housing unavailable
Deny a dwelling
Set different terms, conditions or privileges for sale or rental of a dwelling
Provide different housing services or facilities
Falsely deny that housing is available for inspection, sale, or rental
For profit, persuade owners to sell or rent (blockbusting) or
Deny anyone access to or membership in a facility or service (such as a multiple listing service) related to the sale or rental of housing.

http://portal.hud.gov/hud...yourrights
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Posted by Bridgier (+9526) 11 years ago
My god, teh socialism....
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Posted by Its Me (+187) 11 years ago
Richard,

Does that apply if you own a house and are offering a room for rent also.

I was thinking of doing that but I am particular on who I want in my house as I do not want anyone who drinks, smokes or does drugs in my house?
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Posted by Diesel (+182) 11 years ago
I have had that done to and it was just shameful. My kids would get yelled at for playing on the grass! And the funny thing is, these landlords usually have grandchildren/children of their own. I think this town needs to LOOSEN its panties just a bit. Just my take on the situation.
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Posted by uno21 (+63) 11 years ago
Just my opinion, but I feel landlords have the right to say no to whomever they want. It's their property. If we keep making them yield to our every want there may not be rentals to rent. The landlords take the brunt of the damages done by tenants with or without dogs and children. It's their right to keep their property intact. If this landlord doesn't allow children, keep looking!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
Federal law says otherwise.
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Posted by Monica LN (+146) 11 years ago
Well then its ok not to rent to black or asian or mexican or white- whatever your preference. It's also just fine if you won't rent to someone in a wheelchair or who needs to use crutches or a cane to get around. Oh, and it shouldn't affect your morality to not want to rent to a family of 4 or 5 with 2 working parents of (pre) school age children who are trying to properly raise them in this totally f-ed up society.

Furthermore, its such a great thing too, to see elderly kicked out of their homes because they can't pay the jacked prices their landlords put on their HOME for the sake of making a killing from the oil workers. Its also a good thing to see entire trailer parks emptied of lot renters to make room for people who are looking to stay a couple months.

Out of the goodness of their pocketbooks.....
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Posted by howdy (+4953) 11 years ago
Just found out that Wyoming law says that if you build an apt blg 4 stories and under, you are not required to install an elevator which means I cannot see my grandsons apartment in Laramie...that sucks...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
I bet that between Preston and I we can build you a ramp to get you up there.
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Posted by howdy (+4953) 11 years ago
LOL, he will be on the second floor so it is hopeless....but a nice thought from a good friend...Mac can take pictures to show me, I guess LOL...
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Posted by alhajmh2 (+164) 11 years ago
well for your information my kids are most likely cleaner than you, plus that is why there is a deposit dummy!!!!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
well for your information my kids are most likely cleaner than you, plus that is why there is a deposit dummy!!!!


Did you file a complaint with HUD?
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Posted by MTgal (+138) 11 years ago
It's instantly assumed there is discrimination if a person is denied a rental, when it could be that the credit check or background check didn't pan out. Having been a landlord, if an applicant checked out with good prior rental references and no criminal background we'd snatch them up and do everything to keep them happy so they wouldn't move out. Many times, out of 8-10 applications, only one would actually have positive references - some applicants would actually give bogus references or disconnected numbers.....yeah that's the tenant you want in your property.
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Posted by alhajmh2 (+164) 11 years ago
i would like for you to know that i made arrangements twice to view the house and the person did not show and then denied me an application and said that they felt the house was unsuitable for children(MIND YOU IT WAS A 3 BEDROOMS). well as a mother i should have been to make the judgment if i felt the house was suitable or not. but i was not allowed to even view it.. thank you.
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Posted by mcs (+406) 11 years ago
I saw an ad posted on a bulletin board in a grocery store (in Glendive, about 5 yrs ago) it was advertising an apartment for rent, it specifically said 'NO CHILDREN'
I called HUD housing to make a complaint and the woman told me there was nothing they could do. ????? excuse me? I thought that was part of their job?

[This message has been edited by mcs (4/7/2012)]
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
No, HUD doesn't apply. Richard is wrong (sorry Richard). No one has to rent their house to anyone that has children if they don't want to. They can blatantly post the same, as indicated above. If you mix up the same, then you're misunderstanding the difference between what the law says, and specifically how it actually applies. The devil is always in those details.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12745) 11 years ago
Actually, I think is age is the only thing you can legally discriminate on. That came about because of senior housing, more than anything else.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
Exactly. And insurance issues. The common example is if you have a house on a lake, and don't want to rent to someone that has kids because one of them might drown and you'd be potentially liable as landlord if allowed.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
I think Richard is right. You cannot reused to rent to someone because they have kids, unless your property is designated for a specific tenant time such as "seniors".

Familial status is governed by federal and state laws, which vary by state. This characteristic is determined by a person's household type, such as marriage and existing or prospective children. This is referred to in the Federal Fair Housing Law and Fair Credit Reporting Act and prohibits denying rights to people younger than age 18 who live with a parent or legal guardian. It also covers foster families and people in the process of adopting or gaining custody of a child/children.. Federal Fair Housing Law prohibits a Landlord from refusing to rent to someone based on familial status . Under the Federal Fair Housing Act, it is illegal to discriminate against


Frequently Asked Questions Regarding Families with Children & Fair Housing:

1. Can a Landlord Refuse to Rent to Families with Children? The Federal Fair Housing Act prohibits discrimination against families with children in the sale, rental and financing of all housing. "Adults Only" limitations are unlawful unless the housing qualifies under the exemption for senior citizen housing. Qualified housing for the elderly/older persons needs to be advertised as "housing for older persons" or by noting the age restriction. Furthermore, advertising which indicates a preference for "single professional" or "adults" is unlawful.

2. What is the Definition of Familial Status? Familial Status is defined as a household with children under the age of 18. The term covers households in which a minor lives with a parent, any person who has legal custody of the minor, or any adult who has written permission for the child to live in the household. Discrimination against pregnant women or any person in the process of adopting or securing legal custody of a minor is also specifically prohibited.

3. Can a Landlord have rules restricting the age or sex of children in rental units? Landlords may not have rules which limit the age, gender or number of children in a unit in a manner which is different than limitations placed on adult tenants. For example, landlords may not specify: a) only children under the age of five are permitted; b) opposite gender children or a parent/child may not share a bedroom; or c) no more than one child may reside in a bedroom, etc. A landlord may set reasonable occupancy limits on the maximum number of "persons" who can live in a unit. Typically, two people per bedroom is considered reasonable.

4. Can a Landlord limit the number of children per apartment? No. A landlord may limit the total number of "persons" per unit, but not target the total number of "children". A landlord may set reasonable occupancy limits on the maximum number of persons who can live in a unit as long as the limits are not unreasonably restrictive. For instance, a limit of one person per bedroom in an apartment complex that has only two bedroom units would have the effect of screening out most families with children. This type of policy would be considered discriminatory even if the landlord did not "intend" to discriminate against families with children.

5. Can a landlord charge families with children higher security deposits? No. A landlord may charge tenants a reasonable security deposit. The amount may vary depending upon the size of the unit, tenant's credit or rental references, limits established in a state's landlord/tenant law or other valid business criteria. For example, a landlord may charge a family with very poor credit a higher security deposit than a family with excellent credit but a family could not be charged a higher deposit just because they have children.

6. May the landlord raise the rent when another child is added to the household? No. A landlord may not base the amount of rent a tenant pays on the number of children in the home. HOME recommends a per bedroom charge rather than a per occupant/person charge. Some landlords charge "per person" rather than a fixed rental rate. This "additional" rent must be based on actual costs to the owner which can be verified and not based upon assumptions to be lawful. If an owner pays the utilities on a unit and additional persons are added to the home, then the utility costs may increase as long as it is applied to all occupants and can be verified. This policy would be unlawful if a landlord only charged for additional children and not for additional adults in the unit, for example.

7. May a landlord have special rules restricting children at complex facilities? No. A landlord may have reasonable rules and regulations which are applied uniformly to all tenants. Further, if the common public areas of an apartment complex or mobile home park are available for adults to converse, picnic, play, etc., then they must be available to children as well. Rules need to apply to everyone, not just children.

8. Can a landlord have rules governing the behavior of children? No. The landlord may have rules and regulations governing the behavior of "all" tenants. For instance, a landlord may have rules prohibiting the use of bicycles, skateboards, and skates on the sidewalks and in other common areas. The same rules, if applied or selectively enforced only against children would be unlawful. Specific regulations which limit tenant activities such as walking in flower gardens, turning on sprinklers, or playing basketball would adequately protect the landlord's property and comply with fair housing laws, as long as they apply to everyone, and not just to children.
9. Can a landlord set a curfew for children under 18 years of age? No. Landlords may have rules "closing" common facilities to all residents at a certain hour. Rules that would close the club house or the pool to all tenants at set hours could be enforced without violating fair housing laws. A landlord can also have rules against vandalism and other problem behaviors as long as the rules apply to all tenants.

http://www.phonehome.org/...fault.aspx

http://definitions.uslega...al-status/
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Posted by Monica LN (+146) 11 years ago
MTGal, this case of discrimination (and mine) is assumed because we were told outright we could NOT RENT because of our kids. Blatantly stated, illegal restriction. No assumptions made. And yes Richard, (thank you very much!) is right.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
No, you guys can think that all you want. But you can't mix up what is HUD or FHA or whatever and not. And also what is contract law or not.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
No, you guys can think that all you want. But you can't mix up what is HUD or FHA or whatever and not. And also what is contract law or not.


Are you saying that those rule apply only in housing situations that were/are constructed with public money?
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Posted by David Schott (+18742) 11 years ago
http://www.discrimination...tml#adults

Can an Apartment Complex Rent to Adults Only?

In very rare cases, a complex can refuse to rent to families with children. However, this is an extremely rare situation and will be discussed at the end of this section. In the vast majority of case, however, it is illegal for a landlord to refuse to rent an apartment, condominium, or house to somebody because they have children. If they refuse to do so, then they are guilty of discrimination even if the landlord appears to have a good excuse.

For example, a landlord might state, "We don't allow families with children because most of our tenants work at night and sleep during the day and kids would wake them up." It would be illegal for a landlord to refuse to rent based upon this excuse.

As for the exception, if a community is a retirement community and is officially designated as "Over 55" or "Senior Housing," then children may be excluded. It is very easy to spot such communities. These communities must prominently display the fact that they are "Over 55" or "Senior Housing." If a community doesn't classify as such, then they have no legal right to exclude children.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
You guys are quoting HUD and FHA from a questionable attorney with an agenda. I'm sorry, but the law offices of San Diego-based Craig P. Fagan is not the ultimate source of facts. I'm not a landlord, never been, and have been discriminated against as well (I lived in a condominium duplex complex that did not allow children - and it irked me to no end). It sucks. But it was part of the contract. I'm not attempting to promote that behavior as right. Just saying there's a bit more to the picture.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
Just to make the issue more clear, someone could build a grand casino hotel in Miles City, one with heart shaped beds and disco spinning lights in each room next to the Oasis, and stick a big sign out front that says "NO CHILDREN". Now what are you gonna do about it? That's a very extreme example, but is no different, and I'll give you the answer in advance, it's "nothing". Except hire that attorney guy, who probably doesn't have a license in the state of Montana so you'll have to find another one, to harress whoever to pay a few bucks, and ultimately, that's the cost of doing business.

Then at the other end of the spectrum, you've got some person who only owns one little house, and doesn't want to rent to kids. Just because they don't want crayon marks on their walls. This person puts out a sign that says "FOR RENT, NO CHILDREN". Now what are you gonna do about that? You can throw an egg at the sign, and feel good about it if you get away with it, but the answer in advance is not only nothing, but in this case, less than nothing, because the previous attorney guy is not gonna be interested in your plight since he isn't going to be able to shake out his few bucks. And there is no HUD or FHA police to give a demerit to the person renting that house.

That, unfortunately, is how the world works.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+761) 11 years ago
Right, it's one of those deals where laws are written but not enforced. Kind of like sign ordinances. Do what you want until somebody complains and then keep doing it until somebody does something about it. Is it worth fighting about? What could you win?
This has been an interesting discussion.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
Is it worth fighting about? What could you win?


Well, it is certain that you won't win and the behavior of landlords will not be changed if you don't make it known. At that point you have to ask why have the law in the first place.
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Posted by David Schott (+18742) 11 years ago
The Fair Housing Act exempts single-family homes owned by a private person when leased/sold without assistance of a realtor. It also exempts multi-family housing where the owner lives in a building with 4 or fewer units. Or in cases where a owner is leasing, say, just a single room in the same housing unit occupied by the owner.

State law can be more restrictive.

http://civilrights.findla...-faqs.html
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Posted by David Schott (+18742) 11 years ago
And apparently even though a private person renting their single-family home can discriminate, they can't advertise that they discriminate. So, they can choose not to rent to whites or people with children but they can't say so in their advertising. So, Larry, the sign that says "No Children" is a no-no even if the policy is not. How's that for whacky?
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10019) 11 years ago
I know, it's ironic the sign would be the actual issue up for debate.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15535) 11 years ago
Thank you for the clarification.
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