Indoor Swimming. Yep, I said it.
Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
http://www.ehow.com/list_...ities.html

Interesting read! Now how to pass the information on to the right people... I need help with this.
Obviously Fun2U was a bust, and I am sorry, but for all the people that say 'we can't afford it', blah blah BLAH don't talk, ok?
An indoor swimming facility is not something that should be a priveledge for the upper class. I am not from Miles City, but I have lived here 6 years. I have observed a fair amount of local culture and lifestyle, but I also remember my hometown of Bozeman very well and often miss the recreation availability and variety, and wish my 3 kids had more choices than they currently do. I believe every child should have the opportunity to learn how to swim. (and without waiting for the right season and hoping not to get a disease).
There are a lot of resources for getting this thing in motion, and it is not an unrealistic goal. Come on, Miles City, lets do this for our kids! Swim team, swim lessons, WATER AEROBICS, syncronized swimming, diving club, water polo. There are so many opportunities involved in having an indoor swimming pool for our whole community! I'm sick of new fast food joints and casinos. I'm gonna get a little mean here, but it's really not so suprising that our town has such scary and concerning suicide rates. OPEN YOUR EYES, GUYS. We can all pull off BHS every year with our eyes closed but we can't teach our kids to swim. We need to broaden the recreational spectrum a little!
I resent how closed minded so many people here are about the 'indoor pool' idea. Did you know a lot of towns have bonds passed that assign a new or old indoor pool to the City Parks and Rec. Dept. to pay for and maintain? This could be done in part or in whole. There are numerous grants for this EXACT purpose. People of Miles City, officials of Miles City, previous Fun2U Secretary people, previous Fun2U Volunteer people, everyone. Can we stop making excuses and being lazy and finally make this happen? There is NO GOOD REASON WE CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
See this is a project.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
Did you know a lot of towns have bonds passed that assign a new or old indoor pool to the City Parks and Rec. Dept. to pay for and maintain?

I think the good citizens of Miles City spoke in the last election. Good luck on passing a new bond.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
If you aren't going to contribute in a positive and helpful manner, then please don't talk. Also, I am really not deeply involved in the current political standings of the city right now, so honestly, Bridgier, I don't even know what your smart ass remark is about. I do know that there is too much focus on here about stupid, meaningless stuff, and although I have certainly contributed my own share of it, I feel like I need to change that on my part. I can't speak for others, but from where I am standing, it seems pretty tragic that I will most likely get many more negative, jerk off responses to this than informative, useful ones. Is this website really reflecting the general nature of Miles City's residents? If so, then it's no wonder there's no damn pool. Please, if there's any normal people left on here that actually care about Miles City, then let me know with your response to this thread!
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 9 years ago
I suggest you search this web site about other discussions about the indoor pool and you will see what Bridgier meant...Educate yourself before passing judgement perhaps...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Please, if there's any normal people left on here that actually care about Miles City, then let me know with your response to this thread!


Can we stop making excuses and being lazy and finally make this happen?


The notion that because there isn't an indoor swimming pool in means people are "lazy" or "don't care" is offensive. You really need to stop with your condescension. The notion that only people who will say what YOU want to hear should be allow to "talk" is arrogant "bell-cow" behavior.

An indoor pool has been discussed here a million times over the years. I believe that nearly everyone in town would like an indoor pool. The FACTS are that Miles City has many other need that are far more important. Getting water out of the river, cleaned up so it can be used and shipped to peoples houses is a much bigger priority. Replacing 100 year old water mains is far more important. The truth is Miles City may have to look at bonds to generate income to pay for basic infrastructure.

IMO, the best chance Miles City has for an indoor pool, is to get some energy development going and get a large corporation, like say Arch Coal or Peabody Energy, to contribute to the community.

Berating the citizen of the community for what they don't have is not an acceptable approach.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
I'm not passing judgement. I'm stating my observations and opinions about the fact that there is no indoor, public swimming pool here. There really is no need for me to look at past threads about the pool, as obviously none of them accomplished the outcome that I want and that I think Miles City desperately needs. In fact, it seems pretty obvious to me that a new set of eyes and perspective about the subject would probably do some good.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
What is accomplished by building a pool if you can't get water to it?

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (1/25/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
As I said, there are grants available SPECIFICALLY for THIS PURPOSE! Whatever resources or ideas that can be mentioned are very much appreciated! The condition of the City's infrastructure is concerning, but there are many many people that work every day here to solve or improve these problems. No one is working on the recreation opportunities for are youth, at least not on any measureable level. As far as I am concerned, using the condition of Miles City's infrastructure as a reasonable explanation of this is ridiculous and a little too convenient....they are two completely different issues. Granted, it may not be possible for us to do it via bond, but that does not mean the options have been exhausted. Richard, I actually appreciated your post. Thanks for your take. Howdy, um, not so much. I was just asking for any harassing, useless posts and posters to leave the thread alone. Having been on this site for more than an hour, obviously I know the likeliness of that...nonetheless, this is a thread I started, and an issue I obviously have some personal interest in. I don't care how many times it has been discussed, I am starting another discussion. If it bothers you then don't respond or get involved. This is something Miles City NEEDS, just like new water mains or maybe a couple more accessible treadmills. Just as you don't want ME to judge, don't judge ME for wanting to see my children grow up in a town that has a healthy balance of activities and resources. Who doesn't want that?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Richard, I am not berating the citizens of Miles City for what they don't have, but even if I was, how would that really be so wrong? The citizens of Miles City vote in officials, vote for how money is spent and where, own businesses, and ultimately create the environment we all live in. We all make things the way they are, it doesn't just happen to us. So aren't yesterday and today's citizens of Miles City responsible for the lack of recreational resources available to us?
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Posted by M T Zook (+515) 9 years ago
AshleyDawn, take the lead then. Be the tip of the spear. You have informed yourself on what needs to be done, now do it. The rest of MC has rehashed this a thousand times and have not come up with a solution, so maybe you are the one.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
STATUS UPDATE:

With the monies that have been "Pooled" so far, here is a suggested completed pic of the finished "project":



FH
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1350) 9 years ago
I sent the information about that grant program, along with a link to the application forms, to the Fun2u organization.

I have no idea if they followed up on it.
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Posted by boxdmc (+89) 9 years ago
I have been involved (as a volunteer) in meetings, fundraisers, work sessions and planning for everything from a pool, to a new hockey rink to new bathrooms at Riverside park. What I conclude from all of this is that it doesn't just take a community to get behind something, it takes the city or county gov't. Grants are great and I've been a part of putting several together. Fundraisers are pretty much worthless because of the amount of $$ needed to be raised.

I feel the best way to accomplish what you are suggesting is to:

1. get a park and rec district that is funded by taxpayer $$ and run by council/county appointed people.
2. secure a large donor to cover most development costs.
3. include all city/county parks and identify local organizations that want to expand opportunities for youth and include them so that we aren't just building a swimming pool.

Without these keys lots of effort by good meaning volunteers will most likely go to waste.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
You know I wish you and your town the best of luck with this dream. It's been going on for four generations now, if I'm not mistaken.
However this forum is not the place to gain support for it.
Trust me, you will have better results by simply moving to a town that suits your lifestyle if fitness swimming is part of it. Miles City is what it is, a lot of people have come and gone, given up or died of old age waiting for things like a public pool.
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Posted by Dan Mowry (+1438) 9 years ago
I blanked out when I saw the eHow link.

"To get funding for a pool"

1. Find a way of raising money (check with local places that help raise money).

2. Decide how much a pool costs. Don't forget to estimate cost of water.

3. Enjoy your new pool!
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
Ashley, while you're not being lazy, why don't you get a space program going for Miles City as well?

IMO, the best chance Miles City has for an indoor pool, is to get some energy development going and get a large corporation, like say Arch Coal or Peabody Energy, to contribute to the community.


This is how every small town pool in Eastern Montana was built. If the rumors are true, it might actually be an option for MC in coming years.

Fun2U tried very hard for a couple years and managed to raise about 5% of what it would cost to just build a pool, and then you have to maintain it. Stop ignoring reality and maybe you would get some more support. The city knows about federal grants, I believe they have an employee who does that full time do they not?

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (1/26/2012)]
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Posted by MRH (+1489) 9 years ago
Levi, are you sure they refilled this position??
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Levi, the city *sometimes* has a grant writer. Dont go there...Also, it is pretty safe to assume that the money for the pool would largely need to come from a source outside of our residents, and I think this is going to take some real 'out of the box' ideas. All of the other systems have failed, so local fundraising is not the way. M T Zook, Im going to try. And you guys are right, this website is not the place for me to deal with this. Thanks for the responses, and if I come across any breakthrough info I will mention it. I started swimming competitively at a state and then regional level at 6, and for almost ten years of my life spent at least 2 hours a day swimming. I had sponsors, won many competitions. The confidence, discipline, and patience the sport taught me has been invaluable to me, and I wish my kids could have a chance to have the same experience. I wish I could coach a swim team....moving is not an option for me, at least now. But trust me, I wish every day that it was.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Levi. Reality is that you have no idea the possibilities of income a public pool can generate to cover the costs of maintaining it and the PROFIT it could make once it exists. One step at a time.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
First we have this:

Also, it is pretty safe to assume that the money for the pool would largely need to come from a source outside of our residents,


And then we're met with this:

Reality is that you have no idea the possibilities of income a public pool can generate to cover the costs of maintaining it and the PROFIT it could make once it exists.


I think the first statement is the one with a higher probability of coming true.

I've met a lot of folks who learned discipline, confidence, etc, etc from sports who probably should have put more time and energy into their academics instead.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Denton, STFU.
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 9 years ago
MIles City very much has a professional grant writer and she is busy writing grants for all sorts of things like the improvements in Riverside Park and infratstructure. As for indoor pools paying for themselves, they don't. Period. They cost more to run than they bring in, especially in a COLD climate. I used to live in Bozeman. Their school pool sucks money, but they have more of it.

Why don't you track down all these grants (all of which will require a match of from anywhere to 20 to 90%)? Then get REALISTIC figures on the maintenance and liability costs of an indoor pool. Then work up a budget and present it to the City?

Grants are not magic. They require a HUGE amount of effort to apply for, require match of some kind, and are not guaranteed. You get rejected more than you get accepted for grants. With the current federal deficit, many of those grant programs are going away or becoming even more competitive.

Just saying "grant" as a magic word is no more useful than saying "abracadabra." List the specific grants (USDA? NRC? Rural Development?). Find out the requirements. Then come back with a solid proposal instead of the usual moaning about how lazy everyone is. If you provide HARD numbers instead of whining, someone might listen.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
The first statement was in regards to the actual cotruction of the pool. Getting it built. The second was about after. I am going to reach out to people more educated on this specific situation, although I appreciate your highly valuable contribution to the discussion. We have schools, no pools. I also know a lot of educated people that are terribly unhealthy or depressed. A person can have both.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Amorette, the pool in Bozeman makes money. Period. I never said grants are magic. Not at all. But they don't all require matching, either. There are a lot of other people that are eligible to apply for grants than just one person.j person that works for the city. They just don't.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
You don't know anything about the pool in Bozeman, Amorette. Come on.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
The confidence, discipline, and patience the sport taught me has been invaluable to me...


From this exchange, I am left with the conclusion that swimming does not teach the ability to communicate effectively with other people and build relationships of trust, respect and positive interaction. Go figure.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Nope, that it does not. Go figure is right, ahem .....yeah...Mary you know nothing about me or my relationships. Thanks for your contribution to the thread.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Jeff Denton, you sound like a genius, however, can't help but feel sad about how right you probably are.
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 9 years ago
Which Bozeman pools are we discussing? The high school pool or the University pools? Neither are paid for by the City per se. I wonder where it would be possible to obtain the budget for the high school pool? Twenty years ago, it was a money suck. Does Bozeman have an indoor city pool?
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Posted by Cindy Stalcup (+586) 9 years ago
I do not live in Miles City so do not have a personal stake. I do have knowledge about fund raising. My first tip is make an enemy of no one because you will need all the friends you can get. My second tip is get the baskets lady on board.
It is a very challenging time in Montana to fund raise. Very established nonprofits in the state are having difficulty meeting their usual annual gifting levels. I am not saying raising capital to build pool could not be done but it is not the loose giving climate of ten years ago.
Rule of thumb in a capital drive is to first secure half of goal by finding one or several large donors and making them members of foundation board. Then their influence gives credibility to your effort. Unless you are just incredibly lucky to find new donor you will be stealing that donor from existing nonprofit so you need to find out how much money is given annually in your community and from whom.
I believe securing an award of recreation grant from those Federal grant programs named would be very unlikely at this time. Grants are awarded by priority and recreational ones such as swimming pools and tennis courts are at the very bottom of list. ARRA monies were specifically not to be used for tennis golf or swimming. Public safety is high priority and shoring up existing facilities and making them ADA compliant is also priority. As previously stated Federal capital grants require matching local capital at least half.
The outdoor pools some small towns have were likely ones built with water conservation grants in the 1970's. I am familiar with several and each municipality struggles to keep them operating. Friends of organizations give money to assist but still run in red.
The Y's model for modest indoor aquatic center starts at about $3 million for just construction. Then annual fund drives need to be held to infuse cash because annual family memberships of about $800 and additional special activity fees do not cover maintenance and operating. If Y does not think your community is viable they will not be involved. Even with their guidelines several in state are having hard time with annual gift drives.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
There is no high school pool. The indoor city pool in Bozeman is attached to the high school, but the high school does not operate or maintain it. They have access to it but pay for it. The largest contributor to the Bozeman Swim Center is the fee-based member clubs associated with it, the Bozeman Barracudas being the largest of them. Advertisers, retail sales, locker rentals, and public parties and walk in swimmer fees pay maintenence and payroll. I believe a percentage of club fees do as well. The revenue that comes in from any meets that include statewide and surrounding state participants is where they make the most money.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Thank you for the information, Cindy. Already have a call in to the Y locations in Billings and Sheridan.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Amorette, yes, the Bozeman High School is a City of Bozeman owned pool.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
I meant Bozeman Swim Center
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
I commend your energy and understand your youthful naivety. What I have no patience with is your willful ignorance and presumption. A declaration of what Miles City needs from a single person that has not studied the facts is presumptuous. Everyone is entitled to make suggestions - just not Proclamations!

Ignoring the voice of others on this thread that might, with the right approach, become potential supporters is down right obnoxious. You come across as a spoiled child -- "I want a pool - NOW!" ignoring friendly advice, appearing to be completely unwilling or unable to work through what it would take to get a pool. Your behavior and statements demonstrate thinking similar to the old concept that "As long as I have a checkbook I have money to spend". You continue your tirade without the knowledge to back it up, so the folks on this thread have "sent you to your room" for a time out to think things over. You just haven't figured that out yet. I laughed out loud at your statement that you have no need to research the previous threads in this forum about this topic. Why shouldn't you? Knowledge is power, and you just might benefit from the experiences of others, learn what has been done in the past and think of a new approach. Willful ignorance is not a pretty sight!

As many in this thread have stated, the need for an indoor pool has been the topic of discussion and hard work for years. While we haven't succeeded in building a pool, we have gained a tremendous amount of collective knowledge in what it would take to accomplish that goal. Unfortunately, for many reasons, Miles City hasn't been able to amass the tremendous amount of resources necessary to build, operate and maintain a pool.

It may help you to understand that in recent years the availability for grants that will fund recreational infrastructure have been limited. In fact in an attempt to reduce pork barrel spending, many government grants at both state and federal level, specifically exclude the use of grant funds for building golf courses, swimming pools and other recreational sites. I know, grant writing is part of what I do for a living -- and I have contributed that skill set to many "projects" that seek to improve recreational and health improvement opportunities in rural areas such as ours.

The Fun2U project was thorough in putting together building and operating costs and seeking matching grant opportunities. This effort was matched by an incredibly energetic fund raising drive at the local, regional and state level, and included reaching out to larger corporations, the healthcare providers in the area, and working with city and county government, etc. In spite of the project's failure the city as a whole learned a lot, and with the exception of you (who refuses to inform your self) will probably use what was learned from that effort to be more effective next time.

In addition, just in case you haven't paid attention, the city of Miles City has been ranked highly in the nation (8th in the nation in fact) in the amount of money donated by private citizens for good causes (I think that rating was from proceeds earned through Relay for Life). My point being that if people around here decide to accomplish something -- they generally do. So the fact that there isn't an indoor pool isn't from lack of trying - or that we are ignorant of the benefits -- it is because for a town of limited resources, it is just not been an affordable project to accomplish.

If you think you want to lead the city in this effort, I suggest you cowboy up, inform yourself and approach the "project" from a position of knowledge, develop the organizational structure to accomplish your goal and present your ideas in a reasonable tone of voice, respectful of other's efforts.

I agree with Mary B. evidently your experience as a swimmer in an indoor pool, or member of a team did not teach you the highly respected skill of effective communication. If you wish to take this project on -- it is a skill you might want to learn.

P.S. Just so you know -- I raised four kids in this town, all of which swam at the Oasis in the summer. One daughter chose to participate on the swim team, benefited from the competition, worked as a life guard for many years, saving more than a few lives...all without access to an indoor pool in her formative years. Not saying an indoor pool is bad -- just pointing out that it might not be the deciding factor needed to accomplish the achievements you attribute to the use of an indoor pool.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
There are numerous other federal programs and grant opportunities that could help finance recreational
facilities and programs. For example, Community Development Block Grant (CBDG) funds from the
Department of Housing and Urban Development may be available for improvements directed towards
economic development. Or, National Institute of Health funds might be available for programs
developed to promote community health or senior health. The RPAB could work with the City's
Grants Coordinator to identify grant or program funds for specific programs or projects.
The City is able from time to time to obtain appropriations for special projects by working with
Montana's congressional delegation. However, the City still needs to apply for funds from the relevant
agency (e.g., Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Interior, Housing and Urban Development.)
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
clm, thanks for commending my energy. Other than that, I have no response to your post. I didn't find it educational or informative, but I commend your effort.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago


From http://www.tml.org/legisl...itydev.asp

Special Factors:
There are certain differences between the regular CDBG program and the CDBG program authorized by the federal stimulus bill. Under the CDBG program authorized by the federal stimulus, cities must give priority to projects that can award contracts based on bids within 120 days of the grant agreement, and CDBG funds cannot be used for casinos, aquariums, zoos, golf courses, or swimming pools.


Five minutes with google.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/26/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Com, I reread your post, and do want to comment in something. I am educating myself on this matter, just not in the way you think I should. I am looking into many other communities like our s and how they DID make it work, not how we HAVEN'T.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
(Sigh) Well, I tried to reveal and appeal to your common sense ...

As far as your list goes: "Been there, done that", but I invite you to put the list together and start grant writing... Imaging the acclaim that will be afforded to your single handed efforts on this site when you announce all the funding you (and you alone) have received!

There are numerous other federal programs and grant opportunities that could help finance recreational
facilities and programs. For example, Community Development Block Grant (CBDG) funds from the
Department of Housing and Urban Development may be available for improvements directed towards
economic development. Or, National Institute of Health funds might be available for programs
developed to promote community health or senior health. The RPAB could work with the City's
Grants Coordinator to identify grant or program funds for specific programs or projects.
The City is able from time to time to obtain appropriations for special projects by working with
Montana's congressional delegation. However, the City still needs to apply for funds from the relevant
agency (e.g., Environmental Protection Agency, Department of Interior, Housing and Urban Development.)

Or you could move back to Bozeman and go swimming...
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Clm, wow. So you have written said grants in the past? If there is any way I could obtain copies, that would be fabulous! Since grant writing is such a large part of your job, you probably know that I am not qualified to do that, but I can get in touch with people that are. Clm, have you ever been to Bozeman? Im just curious.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
By the way, I am not nearly pathetic enough to give two hoots about any 'credit' I would ever get in this community for anything of value I did to improve the quality of life here. I want a pool for our youth and our community, we need one, and that's it. Anyone that would do that or think like that obviously is a person that grew up in a town without an indoor pool and more casinos than treadmills (joke)...I think its pretty apparent I could care less what any of you think of me.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
Well, since you could care less, obviously you do care.

But, following the old adage, if you don't have anything nice to say (type) about somebody, then don't push any keys, I offer the following:

AshleyDawn:






Sincerely,
FH
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
Which is why you will never succeed.

Mary you know nothing about me or my relationships.


I know enough to know for a fact that your temperament is not conducive to bringing people together for the good of the community. Your communications are petty, childish, condescending, ill-informed and downright rude. The fact that you do not understand that your set of interpersonal skills will be of no benefit, and actually a great hindrance, to this endeavor speaks volumes. Burning bridges comes to mind.

There are thousands of registered users on this site you could be reaching with a positive, respectful message in an attempt to convince them to part with their money, time or donations in-kind. Yet, when this is pointed out to you, you throw a tantrum like a child. Good luck with your "project." I would hazard a guess that most of the people who frequent this site will be less than willing to assist you in your efforts due to your abrasive nature. Something about honey and vinegar would be befitting.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
Wait!! I reread your post and do have something nice to type.

AshleyDawn: I LIKE reading your posts because I know that they will eventually end!

There!!

Sincerely,
FH
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Ashley: I think you should consider moving to Gillette. They have a pool that you would go orgasmic over. On the other hand there isn't a decent bar here like the Montana or Bison. Everything in life is a trade-off.






http://www.ccprd.com/Recr...enter.html
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary, I never wanted to fundraise locally. That doesn't work and after all of the money that has been previously donated by the citizens of this community that have seemed to just disappear, more than once, I doubt there are very many potential trusting donators in the first place, even if I was 'nice'. If our officials and city government had made effective financial and intelligent choices for our town in the past, we wouldn't need to fundraise for a pool to begin with. There has been rampant irresponsibility for a long time. Its very obvious.
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Posted by MRH (+1489) 9 years ago
Geez, we haven't had a post that was this much fun in a 'long' time.

I would hazard a guess that most of the people who frequent this site will be less than willing to assist you in your efforts due to your abrasive nature. Something about honey and vinegar would be befitting.


Amen!!!
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
"Clm, wow. So you have written said grants in the past?"

Yes, Ashley, I have written many grants over the years, and have a 100% funding history.

"If there is any way I could obtain copies, that would be fabulous!"

Yes, Ashely, that would be fabulous; but isn't going to happen. Most grant applications are copyrighted Intellectual Property - of either the person that authored them, or the entity that hired the author. Although grant applications are sometimes shared with respected colleagues across organizational boundaries to the benefit of all, you are not a respected colleague.

"Since grant writing is such a large part of your job, you probably know that I am not qualified to do that, but I can get in touch with people that are."

Yes, Ashely, based on the posts you have contributed to this thread, I surmised that you are not qualified to write grants; further, you have been in touch with people who are qualified, also in this thread, and treated them with complete disrespect. (See my earlier reference to effective communication and translate that to effective team building). When you have put together an organization capable of fulfilling the requirements of a grant large enough to build, operate and maintain a pool, you might be able to hire me to write a grant, and if by chance, your organization commands enough respect, I might donate my ability to write your grants.

"Clm, have you ever been to Bozeman? Im just curious."

Yes, Ashley, I lived in Bozeman for many years, first attending college there, after college, my husband taught high school in Belgrade until his retirement while I worked in Bozeman for about five more years before we divorced. I have children, grand children, nieces/nephews, good friends and other relatives who still live there and I spend a considerable amount of time there. Haven't ever gone swimming there though.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
Mary, I never wanted to fundraise locally.


So who is it you think is going to provide funds, if not local individuals/companies/government? As mentioned, federal and state grants require local matches. The "Y", though I'm sure you aren't going to believe this, has been contacted in the past, and they too require local funds to be raised.

Do you really think a non-local, disinterested third party is going to provide not only the upfront capital expenses, but the ongoing annual operating costs? Once again I'm sure you are going to take this with a grain of salt, but pools throughout the state were consulted in prior efforts. Their annual operating costs run $300,000 and over. If local taxpayer dollars aren't going to provide these funds, where are they coming from?

Ask Forsyth residents what they think about their pool.

You think you are inventing the wheel. You are not.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Clm, wow you feel pretty entitled. If I get to a point where I need a grant writer, I will find a willing one. Furthermore, not helping participate in a needed community information exchange for a resource like this because you don't like my 'attitude' is exactly the kind of skewed focus that has probably contributed to this not becoming a reality for our community up to this point. 'Be nice and maybe we'll help ourselves and our children'. This thread is NOT about ME. What a joke.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary B. I do not think I am inventing the wheel. Whoever is in charge of running it seems to be out of the office. But I started this thread looking for information and ideas, not money. Money is only useful if you have a plan of what to do with it.
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Posted by Cindy Stalcup (+586) 9 years ago
Sometimes what one believes is an asset is actually a liability. Most municipalities in Montana could not afford to be the recipient of the gift of an aquatic center unless it came with an endowment. Cities and towns are cash strapped with finances of counties varying widely.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
What you don't seem to be comprehending is that plans are not the problem. There have been very thorough estimates and plans calculated and conceived in the past. The problem IS the money to see them to fruition.

This is where it would do you a lot of good to look to the past.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
GODDAMN IT PEOPLE GET WITH THE PROGRAM PROJECT AND JUST CLAP LOUDER.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary, thanks for the info. Im a quote person, too. Who is currently in possession of all of this information? It isntI organized, together, or even in existence anymore in some cases, am I right? If the plans were so great why were they not preserved? Why are these groups enthusiastically started and then completely abandoned without notice or closure? This is what I mean. There seems to be no one taking accountability for these issues. 'No money, just bag it.' Not responsible....all of this 'accumulated knowledge' you guys speak of? Its just documented on here, randomly? This is the information I can learn so much from?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
I would love to see this information, Mary. But if it is in the form of threads on Miles City.com, that is not the information that im looking for.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
"Clm, wow you feel pretty entitled."

Yep -- I'm entitled by law to protect my work product (intellectual property) from misuse by someone whose only qualification is the ability to cut and paste.

"If I get to a point where I need a grant writer, I will find a willing one."

I said I would write grants for any organization capable of delivering on the promises made in the grant application.

"Furthermore, not helping participate in a needed community information exchange for a resource like this because you don't like my 'attitude' is exactly the kind of skewed focus that has probably contributed to this not becoming a reality for our community up to this point."

I offered my professional advice -- you blew it away. So, who is not playing nice in the sand box, Ashley -- could it be you, as so many in this thread have pointed out?

"'Be nice and maybe we'll help ourselves and our children'. This thread is NOT about ME. What a joke."

But it is you who is stomping their foot like a child. Demanding that people who have contributed to this effort in the past just turn everything over to you.

Grow up dear.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
"Mary, thanks for the info. Im a quote person, too. Who is currently in possession of all of this information? It isntI organized, together, or even in existence anymore in some cases, am I right?"

No, (surprise, surprise) you aren't right.

"If the plans were so great why were they not preserved?"

How do you know they weren't?

"Why are these groups enthusiastically started and then completely abandoned without notice or closure? This is what I mean. There seems to be no one taking accountability for these issues. 'No money, just bag it.' Not responsible...."

Pretty serious accusations, Ashley, what facts are they based on? Look up "Facts" in the dictionary before you reply.

"all of this 'accumulated knowledge' you guys speak of? Its just documented on here, randomly? This is the information I can learn so much from?"

No Ashley -- that knowledge is held by the people that worked so hard to accomplish the goal of building an indoor pool in Miles City, some of which could be gained by doing your research, communicating effectively with other community members and groups...blah, blah, blah.

I repeat -- Grow up, dear.

I'm done.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
CLM, every post you write proves every point I have made. I never demanded anything, I asked for information. My remark about you feeling so 'entitled' was about your assumption that you would even be considered to write such grant. Who's information is it, rightfully. Think about it. You act like its some precious commodity, when in reality the level of respect shown to the cause itself is albeit nonexistent and sparing. Even with me completely removed.
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 9 years ago
I know that clm is intelligent, educated, accomplished person who achieves what she sets out to do. I know Ashely-Dawn is apparently a selfish child who got off on the wrong foot by calling people lazy and dishonest.

Let's start over. AD, yes, the information exists. If you weren't so lazy, you could find it. I suggest you start by making some effort to inform yourself before you try to inform others.

Kids, today. Sheesh.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Where can I locate this information?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Amorette, starting this thread is how I started my effort at finding this information. Thanks for your help.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
LOL!

"...My remark about you feeling so 'entitled' was about your assumption that you would even be considered to write such grant. Who's information is it, rightfully. Think about it."

Exactly. My. Point.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
What work has been done recently on this cause? Im confused, do you support the indoor pool or not? Are you one of the hard working contributors? Wow, never would have guessed that based on your ENTIRE first post.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
Why, thank you Amorette! We need to talk about another "project" -- Please call or email me? Thanks!
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
COM, you seem to be attempting to deter me from my efforts that are coming from a completely pure intentional standpoint. That is very disturbing. If you were the person that was 'in charge' of previous endeavors, that's even more disturbing. Also not surprising that you efforts failed. You are a bitch.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
You seemed to know that Fun2U was behind the latest drive. Wouldn't the prudent thing to do be to contact one of the board's directors and speak with them, instead of starting a ridiculous thread on milescity.com? That seems pretty plausible.

I don't know how willing they will be to answer your questions and provide you the information that they obtained through much time and effort when you have publicly bashed them here and made an absurd number of ASSumptions about the way they handled their affairs, all of which were completely unfounded and untrue, and, I am guessing, the product of typical Miles City gossip.

They were a serious organization which spent serious time trying to make this pool a reality. This was no fly-by-night attempt. You, no matter how inaccurate this statement may ultimately be, are coming off as a twit who couldn't even begin to understand the process involved and succeed where they did not.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
You are a bitch.


Just who I would want acting as a swim instructor for our town's children. Impressive.

See how far that attitude gets you coordinating such a massive effort. Experience will be your best, and obviously only, teacher.

Good luck in your efforts.
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Posted by Barb Highsmith(Martin) (+23) 9 years ago
AshleyDawn, your approach is not coming off as a mature adult but as a immature brat. I have lived in Miles City for most of my life as well as many of the other posters. You have only been here a few short years. The debate over an indoor pool has gone on for many years and will probably continue that way. I myself don't care either way as there are ways to teach your child how to swim, whether it is in an indoor pool or pond. I myself would rather swim in the Oasis rather than a pool filled with too much chlorine and chemicals. There I have said my two cents.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Let me be clear: I am looking to obtain information. That is all. Anyone that knows of any recent efforts that have been made to contribute to this cause please let me know! Clm, if you led any or all p)revious efforts your defensive nature is entirely understandable. However, I still feel like this effort (or the end of it, rather) has previously been managed very irresponsibly. I think you get that. No wonder you don't want to help. This isn't just professional for you, its personal, isn't it? It is for me, too. Im sorry if my opinion offends you, but that shouldn't affect my ability to help in the effort.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Just because I used the 'b' word. But we have mayors that have done far more controversial things....ahem. maybe I am a brat, but I am saddened about the lack of accountability for an abandonment of responsibility over an effort that was invested in by many more people of this community and their efforts, funds, and time. more than just the previous board members of Fun2U.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
It didn't begin as a fly-by-night attempt. It certainly was ended that way. Nice updates on the website. Why is there still a website? Now. Im. Done.
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
OMG

LOL

Do I dare answer this way?
Will my friends, family, colleagues think less of me if I do?

Oh well -- here goes:

That is "Miss" Bitch to you, Ashley.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
Keep digging yourself deeper.

I'm sure it will get you exactly what you want.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Have a good night, ladies. Thanks for 'showing' yourselves.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Hasn't Ashley's cell phone battery died yet?

We have a great swimming pool thread on our hands here, but I can't help but feel that something is missing.
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 9 years ago
Rob? Is that you?
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Posted by Tom Masa (+2043) 9 years ago
This is the best since the Rob S. posts. Break out the brewski's and enjoy!!!!!
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
no Ashley, not a genius. I've only been a competitive swimmer for over forty years, now a swim dad, volunteer assistant swim coach (USA Swimming certified) swim team board member and I have to help run our computer timing system at the meets.
I really know nothing about pools and swimming and fitness and organizing a team and dealing with dozens of exuberant kids at once.
So what's your time in the Short Course Yards 50 free these days?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 9 years ago
So, according to Prairie Dawn. Sorry, Prairie Dawn was a very mature Muppet.

According to AD, Fun2U, which spent years organizing a certified 501(c)3 (HUGE amount of work and hassle right there), applying for grants, gathering support, and working their backsides off were "irresponsible" and "fly-by-night." Oh, girl, there is SO much you don't know that I don't know where to begin.

Contact the folks who were on the Fun2U board before their heartfelt effort failed and ask them, if they are willing to overlook the insults and accusations you tossed their way, and find out what happened. The story is hardly one of the laziness or dishonesty you accuse them of. You, however, must be the one to make the approach, as you are the one who needs the information. No one here will give it to you.

After you have informed yourself, then stop and think for a while. Once you have actually thought, maybe you can come back and try again to garner support for what many think is a worthy cause but realize is also a very, very, VERY expensive one.

But whatever you do, engage your brain before you open your mouth or touch a keyboard again because you seem to have broken records for alienating people with your arrogance.
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Posted by Leann (+184) 9 years ago
There really is no need for me to look at past threads about the pool, as obviously none of them accomplished the outcome that I want and that I think Miles City desperately needs. In fact, it seems pretty obvious to me that a new set of eyes and perspective about the subject would probably do some good.


I noticed you said "I want". Really who are you? If this was something ths town really wanted, we would have seen it through. Yes, at one time or another the town thought it would be a good idea. But with the location of where it will be, and considering that most of the town is in a "flood plain", and how water drains around this town. Not to mention the history behind the Oasis and the family that has supported it/ran it. Along with many other things this town needs that out way having a "indoor swimming pool", is higher on the need list. I think it would be of your best interest to read more on what other have posted on why this has fell through. We will never be like the other towns who have an indoor pool/waterslides. It's just not what makes Miles City, Miles City. We are truely a "Cowboy town".
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
Whoa -- a friend just suggested I read your post, which follows, and set you straight...

"Clm, if you led any or all p)revious efforts your defensive nature is entirely understandable. However, I still feel like this effort (or the end of it, rather) has previously been managed very irresponsibly. I think you get that. No wonder you don't want to help. This isn't just professional for you, its personal, isn't it?

AD -- you are out of line, making assumptions for which you lack facts. Never mind that you have insulted me without basis in fact, you are are bordering on defamation of character of the FUN2U organization. Defined: "Defamation of character is written or spoken injury to a person or organization's reputation. Libel is the written act of defamation, vs. slander, the oral act of defamation."

I will go to the mat, as will most Miles Citians in this forum, to defend an honest effort, whether we agree with it or not. That is what people are doing in this thread. Some here may not agree that we need an indoor pool, but almost everyone here will defend the FACT that the people in the FUN2U organization, as did others throughout the years, worked very, very hard in an honest effort to reach that goal. Code of the west and all that...ya know?

"It is for me, too. Im sorry if my opinion offends you, but that shouldn't affect my ability to help in the effort."

The other helpful advice offered in good faith on this thread that you need to think about, is that your opinions and attitude will be viewed as a detriment, rather than an asset to any effort.

Smarten up sweetie -- learn from this. Then apologize to everyone, but most importantly - to FUN2U.
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Posted by Its Me (+177) 9 years ago
Years and years ago, Garfield school had an indoor pool. We lived next to it well after it was shut down. The gym floor was built either over it or around it. As kids we mischievelessly snuck into the building. The gym floor was waving, ruined by the old pool.

Anyway, There have been Miles City Residents get high into Microsoft. Connors I think and more. Maybe try to enlist them to get Microsoft to donate a pool.

Just a thought...
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Well I hope Fun2U will come back in better times and finish what they started.
I hear Choteau is getting a new pool. Lucky Choteau, they have a local sugar daddy who likes the natives and wants to help them. David Letterman is a pretty nice guy, they say.
Miles City is what it is. To me, its a fun place to be publicly intoxicated once a year. Very unique! Who ever went there with the intention of going for a swim?
Ashley, let me repeat to you what a very dear, wise old Kinsey farmer told me when I was nineteen. "Its a big world out there, full of opportunity. There is none of that here. Get out of here, go have adventures you can't get here."
Come to the Summit and go to the KATS counter, you'll find a stack of complimentary tryout passes. Fill one out, bring your kid to ten swim team workouts. No cost, it's on me and the rest of the Board of Directors.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
Its Me, already been tried.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
Ashley,

Here are some stupid lazy dishonest people who might be able to fill you in on some of the ups and downs of raising funds for a city pool. I doubt you would be interested though.

http://www.fun2umc.com/Directors.htm

Also, I said in the "what does miles city need" thread that we didn't need another discussion about a pool. This thread has proven me wrong.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Denton, shut your pasty-white, indoor-swimming, speedo-wearing pie hole.
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Posted by Kristi (+18) 9 years ago
Question: How much would a resident be willing to pay to utilize an indoor swimming facility? What would residents be reasonably able to afford in order to take water aerobics classes? What would parents be able to afford in order to send their children through comprehensive swimming classes. I think an idea of how much people are able to pay might help us get an idea of how much will be needed for maintence costs, etc.
So what would you pay to use the pool? $45/month, like the Centra? $5/day? What would you pay?
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
Jeff Denton wrote:
"No cost, it's on me and the rest of the Board of Directors."

Wow, you and the board paid for the pool?
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Posted by Forsyth Mike (+475) 9 years ago
We have an indoor pool in Forsyth. It's very nice. It's a money sucker and the majority of us wish we didn't have it. It was no problem building it, but as people above have stated, upkeep is the killer.

I realize that MC is about five times the size of Forsyth. If you took the income from our pool and multiplied it five times, or even ten times, the pool would STILL be a money sucker. We might have much better streets if not for our lovely pool (which is used by about 3% of the population, if that).
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Posted by Vanessa (+15) 9 years ago
I was a memeber of fun2U and let me tell you, most of the people worked so hard to get it going I give credit to Robin for trying so hard,its just people in this town are stretched so thin as it is, they don't think we need another pool when we have had the city pool for so long..So please Ashley if you succeed, we will be proud but the cards are really stacked against you, don't ask to raise taxes because people have voted again and again and its always NO.Plus How to you suppose we fund it that was another issue we had. No money, no funding.
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Posted by athome (+365) 9 years ago
I swimming pool (indoor) is a great and ambitious idea. However, it will never function on it's own as a stand-alone. It must be built as part of a fully functional and attractive (community center) that will enlist local memberships as well as visitors. A proposal like
this would probably work financially and be self supportive. But the initial costs are extremely high.
Dickinson North Dakota is a shining example of how this works. Something like their large scale facility should work here as well, maybe not quite as large. Much easier to garner local and public support as well as the deeper pockets that would take interest in such a project. It has to be more than (just) swimming. If you have an offering that appeals to all, then the project might just fly past the conception stage.

cheers

[This message has been edited by athome (1/27/2012)]
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
There was a rumor when I was going to CCDHS that there is a pool under the gym, now why not just fix that one up and use it for public use and charge a fee? I mean after all if it is already there half of the costs would be taking care of right?
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
Here's the CCDHS pool, "cubby":



FLICKR PHOTO: Swimming Pool, CCDHS, Miles City
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Posted by cubby (+2629) 9 years ago
Well there you go, if it is below the sewer water table then you don't have to worry about the water expense LOL. Never mind then I will let you adults play then.
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 9 years ago
The "pool" in the high school was in the old building, under what is now the counseling center. Those air shafts that create windows in the restrooms were designed to provide sunlight for the pool. Even before the building was finished, a number of issues came to light, including our high water table, and it was never finished or filled.

The Eagles a.k.a. Y.M.C.A. swimming pool is also visible in places if you know where to look. It closed in the 1930's due to the Depression.

There was the Red Rocks pool, which also cost the owners a fortune, and is now filled in. SPLASH chugs along but it is a small pool with no add-ons and still costs a big ol' hunk of money to belong to.

Even more than construction, maintenance is a misery on an indoor pool in cold country. It costs big time to heat all that water. Then again, how about an indoor pool that wasn't heated? We could use it for ice skating in the winter time!

The best way to start any project is to avoid insulting the people you will need to help you. I think it is safe to say that the next indoor pool effort will not involve someone named Ashley-Dawn.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary and ClM,
Your manipulation of the dialogue contained in my posts is unappreciated. I have arrived at the conclusions I have about Fun2U based on the facts they have made available to the public on their website, which appears to have last been updated in 2010. The only direct criticism I have made to Fun2U of any kind is of their lack of announcement of the temporary or permanent suspension of their effort. For that, I will not apologize. I will not apologize any assumptions I have made about Fun2U's discontinuation, as because of their failure to inform the public regarding their cause has forced me to do so. In fact, if anyone should apologize it should be the member or members of Fun2U who held that responsibility. I will not apologize for asking questions and wondering why no answers are already available. ClM, I never stated that I was sure one way or another if you had a part in FUn2U, as you never confirmed or denied. Again, I asked. Im sure that many people involved in Fun2U are great people and tried very hard, but I feel that there is a lack of responsibility on their part for their current position on the issue and I am very confused at why you are personally attacking me for asking questions about something I care about and feel like should have been asked a long time ago.
I will not apologize for having expectations of a 'serious organization' that publically declared a commitment to Miles City and when coming to a place where they needed to either quit- altogether and permanently or only temporarily, didn't feel that updating their website or making a viewable public statement to that affect was in order. Rubbish! 'Dont make assumptions' 'get the facts straight'. What facts? I have no choice but to make assumptions. Why would FUN2U be surprised, or anyone else for that matter, that assumptions are being made about it. As far as I am concerned, that's their fault, as well.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
Nobody ever understands where you're coming from, do they?
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Posted by nativemc (+913) 9 years ago
OOPS, forgot to get the date but if you look at past threads you will find this from Matt Smith. I post this from a cut and paste.


"Holy Cow...What a thread. We at Fun2U have taken a break. We were to meet up again in the fall, but it has stretched into winter as we have all have been busy.

Speaking for myself here...I do not feel MC.com is the right place to discuss / debate allot of things. So if you post a question about Fun2U & it goes unanswered, that is why.

So if you have questions please call. I will be glad to visit with you as long as your sane & polite.

My cell is 406-951-0964
Office: 406-234-7355

Regards & Merry Christmas,

Matt Smith"
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Posted by Barb Highsmith(Martin) (+23) 9 years ago
AshleyDawn you need to get your head out of the clouds, Miles City is what it is. Years ago my dad brought me, my brother and mom to this town from California. He grew up in Billings but as a kid coming to Miles City with his dad he liked the small town and told his parents that he wanted to live here. I for one am thankful that he decided to raise his family here. I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world. So if you are that unhappy about living here because of the so called lack of "recreational things" than maybe Miles City isn't for you.
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Posted by howdy (+4944) 9 years ago
Most of the time when Ashley Dawn posts, she is shown to be in Colorado but the latest time she was shown to be in Utah LOL...Apparently she isn't in Miles City...
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Posted by Barb Highsmith(Martin) (+23) 9 years ago
Interesting point Howdy. I'm thinking she has got nothing better to do than berate towns that don't have an indoor pool.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Howdy, I am in Miles City. Im unsure of why or how my posts are showing that I am not.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
David, our team is a non profit, owned and operated by a board of directors. It rents pool time from the local hospital, also a non profit organization. The hospital owns the Summit, a recreational and therapy sports and fitness center. No we don't own the pool, just sometimes wish we did. We own use of the pool for a certain amount of time every weekday and have pretty much complete control over who is in it at that time and what they are doing as long as it within the rules of the facility and USA Swimming. Thus during our time you can swim there if you are a member of the team or a guest of the team. You would be swimming a workout under the direction of up to four coaches, in a lane with two to ten others swimmers matching your speed. Otherwise to swim there at times not owned by the team you would have to be member of the Summit but our board of directors has no say in who that might be or what they are doing there.
Buck, go to hell. And procreate yourself. You can't even be proud of your own name, it's probably registered as a sex offender or pedophile somewhere, isn't it? What have you got to offer to the discussion, anyway?
Kristi my family of four pays $110 a month for Summit membership (the
Summit has a LOT more than just a pool) and also $190 every three months to the swim team. Plus many volunteer hours to run it, every family is required to volunteer twenty hours per year. A lot of additional funding occurs to make ends meet, speaking of which our swim meets make us up to three grand, when lots of swimmers show up from out of town.

[This message has been edited by Jeff Denton (1/27/2012)]
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 9 years ago
David Schott, son of Ruth and Don Schott, has every reason to be proud of his name. You, Jeff Denton, on the other hand should be ashamed of yourself for calling David foul names. I hope you get banned for that pathetic excuse of behavior!
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Read more carefully Amorette. I know David is a fine man. I could care less if I were banned, too.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Nativemc, thank you for copying that statement from Matt, although I am still confused as to why if he felt mc.com was not the appropriate place to discuss questions regarding FUN2U, why he did not utilize FUN2U's official website to do so, but used mc.com instead, and did it by posting the update to another poster's thread. This is what I meant about the information being unorganized, etc. Also, Bridger, you might want to know that I know for a fact that there are Miles City residents that understand my position and that support it, because I have received countless emails telling me that in the last 2 days. To all of those individuals that contacted me, thank you for showing me your support and offering to help. I think it's very unfortunate that those people don't feel comfortable coming forward right now, but I appreciate the gesture and understand why they may not. It isn't easy putting yourself out on a public forum and directly questioning specific issues. One of the things I have learned about Miles City is that there is a lot of politics and a lot of relationships, jobs, and general ties between members of the community that depend on people's position on political issues. There is this sense of fear about the potential reprocussions of 'rocking the boat', so to speak. I just have a big mouth and really no shame about things that don't make sense to me, so I just say what I think. It certainly doesn't always work to my advantage, but sometimes it absolutely does. I also get frustrated that people vote against raising taxes, then complain that the water mains and other city property isn't up to par. Where does the City get most of their money to maintain and improve the condition of the infrastructure of our town? Geez.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
Thanks for defending me, Amorette, even if it was a misunderstanding.

I'm glad my name isn't "Buck"... Schott.

Thanks for the explanation, Jeff. That makes sense.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
That isn't the first time the content contained in posts on this thread has been misread and misconstrued by Amorette as well as a few others, but oh well. Anywhoo, speaking of public utility and structural issues, Bozeman recently had to overcome major downtown parking shortage issues. In really, a very short period of time a plan was proposed and decided on and a new parking garage was built. Someone came up with the genius idea of selling spots on city property to businesses to advertise on, and in turn offset the major financial blow the construction of the garage took on the city budget. Problem solved, and on to the next improvement. Yes, I do love and miss Bozeman, but as I have previously stated relocating isn't possible for my family at this time. So instead of just sitting around and complaining, I am trying to do my part to help improve the home I do have now, Miles City. I know I can't save the world, my mom always tells me that, but I can't just sit around and complain and give up hope for Miles City seeing a more progressive and balanced future. Im just not that kind of person. I will say that this thread hasn't made me feel that great about the chances of it happening, though. I would be lying if I said im not a little disheartened about the general reception of and response to my original post. Im not done yet, though. Goodnight, MC.com
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
I also get frustrated that people vote against raising taxes, then complain that the water mains and other city property isn't up to par. Where does the City get most of their money to maintain and improve the condition of the infrastructure of our town? Geez.


Please do your research to understand how this process works. You obviously lack a basic understanding of government funding.

I will mention, though, that it is not surprising that Miles City's residents are strapped for cash. Custer County's mill rate is the fifth highest in the state. That's out of 56 counties! Add to that the fact that Montana has one of the highest property tax rates in the nation, despite having one of the lowest median household incomes.

Another critical factor in this discussion is our tax base. For example, the Colstrip power plants in Rosebud County, together with other utility property, makes up 80 percent of their tax base. Thus, when Rosebud County levies a dollar of property taxes, 80 cents is paid by utility companies, leaving only about 20 cents paid by residents.

In Custer County, by contrast, utility, railroad and airline property accounts for only about 20 percent of the tax base. Thus, residents themselves pay most of the costs of providing government services. Faced with a relatively high "price" for these services, they choose lower levels of expenditure.

As to Jeff's comments, that was very enlightening. So what you are telling us is that your community's water mecca was neither community-built, nor is community-funded. A private organization is your patron saint, a luxury we do not have. I find this strangely curious, given your comments over the years, implying that it is our desire that prohibits us from the dream. That if we just wanted it enough, it would happen. When your community is able to fully fund the building and maintenance of a pool without the outside assistance that you receive (and let's not even factor in the enormous difference in population), then perhaps you will have the right to criticize our community and our abilities.

[This message has been edited by Mary B. (1/27/2012)]
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
AshleyDawn said:

Also, Bridger, you might want to know that I know for a fact that there are Miles City residents that understand my position and that support it, because I have received countless emails telling me that in the last 2 days.


Umm...I'm pretty sure that even Mickey Mouse could count those using one hand and having a finger left over to salute you.




FH
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary B., your negativity is annoying. If there wearn't enough people of the community that felt strongly enough about the chances being favorable enough for Miles City to make having an indoor pool a reality for this community, then why was this highly organized, very serious effort started to begin with? Because there WERE enough. No thanks to people with an attitude like the one you have about it, as well. As far as the taxes are concerned, saying no to tax increases to improve city funding can't help, now can it. I don't know it all, but niether do you. I have heard enough 'no no no' and 'cant can't cant' from you. I doubt you are divulging this information just to help me, so since you're so sure of the outcome of my questions and effort, why don't you just sit back and enjoy watching me fall on my face trying to change it. You sound like a pretty intelligent person, its a shame you seem to be using it against your own community instead of trying to help.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
I'm sure AD has received numerous e-mails in support, the bulk of which, I am positive, are from people like her who do not understand the method of funding required in such an endeavor or the sheer amount of dollars necessary to make it a reality.

I hear it all the time. Why can't Miles City have a pool? Other communities do. As has been explained, talk to Forsyth residents and see what they think of their pool. Understand the tax bases that have made pools a reality in other communities. Custer County is a unique little county that does not have the advantages that others do.

Do your research before you complain. I am sure that once AD contacts other communities and finds out about annual operating costs and all of these glorious-sounding grant programs and third-party, imaginary donors, her tune will change.

I would be lying if I said im not a little disheartened about the general reception of and response to my original post.


This is what happens when you cannot see the merit in using honey instead of vinegar. The vibe you receive is directly connected to the vibe you first present.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Imagine the fundraising that could happen for so many causes if I they were as simple and indisputable for Miles City to get behind as 'Relay for Life'. But everything is like pulling teeth, it seems. Not just this.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
You sound like a pretty intelligent person, its a shame you seem to be using it against your own community instead of trying to help.


Back to the ASSumptions.

I always say, if it always seems like everyone is out to get you, it's probably you.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary, I respectfully disagree with you, On pretty much every level. I am not complaining. Please stop badgering my effort. Its very ugly behavior and obviously not well intentioned. I guess the board members of FUN2U can reasonably expect an apology from you, since you are publically declaring them stupid for even starting the effort. How was their effort ok, and respectable to you, but mine not? Its for the exact same cause. Because its personal, because you don't like me, that's why. Well I don't like you, either, but I would still appreciate any information of value you that you may be able or willing to contribute- because I believe in being mature enough to put my personal feelings of someone aside when trying to reach common goals with my fellow citizens. But because you don't have any information of value to contributebeing at this time and you also don't believe in respectfully allowing personal feelings to interfere with the effort to improve our community as a whole, until those 2people factors change on your end, I will not be replying to any of your useless posts.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
I guess the board members of FUN2U can reasonably expect an apology from you, since you are publically declaring them stupid for even starting the effort.


I think this is one of the most insane conclusions I have ever seen drawn, and that's really saying something. There is not a thing personal about this because I don't have a clue who you are. I, like just about everyone else on here, was offended by your tone and accusations, especially against an organization that truly had Miles City's best interests at heart.

If you are confused as to why you are receiving the response that you are, go back and read your posts. You put everyone on the defensive from the get-go. If you still do not understand that after rereading your posts, I suggest a class in interpersonal skills. They should be able to help you out.

I wished you good luck in your efforts in a prior post. Just don't expect to move to any community and find support from the same people you start out calling lazy, closed minded, full of excuses, smart ass, jerk off, and ridiculous. It doesn't take Einstein to figure that one out.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
You're right, Mary, we do need advantages. We need more bringing people to our town to use their money than BHS. No one is bringing anything to the table. My statement about your inablility to contribute to this thread in a positive way was not an assumption, it is a fact right now. You have rattled off facts and poor personal perceptions about the impossibility of any opportunities that Miles City can create to change the very systems you seem to know so much about. Come up with ideas to change the unfavorable position financially we are in instead of useless jargon about our shortcomings as a community and come join the discussion again. By the way, when did I ever say I feel like people are out to get me? You really have a funny way of looking at things I say. The only word I can use to describe it is just negative. You look at things I say negatively, and it seems that you look at a lot of things that way. As I said before, I am done responding to you for now.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
By the way, when did I ever say I feel like people are out to get me?


That isn't the first time the content contained in posts on this thread has been misread and misconstrued by Amorette as well as a few others, but oh well.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Wow. No assumptions there.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17331) 9 years ago
My first and last post to this thread...and it is something I have been saying here for many years....

All of you, I mean all of you....need to seriously work on your reading comprehension skills.

That is all. Go back to your berating of each other.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
Why in the heck would we be readding compression?? I never added it in the first place, and what would I add it to? What kind of compression are you babbling about?

Be rating what? And why? Who do you think we are Siskel and Ebert?

You are just plain downright confessing.

Yeah, you did it.

FH
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Posted by Mandi (+351) 9 years ago
I have been struggling to read this thread, however AshleyDawn's post's give me a headache... Please try to learn to use paragragh's. You are murdering every thing I have ever learned in several years of college education. At least AshleyDawn can spell fairly well,(maybe she knows how to use spell-check.) However the continuous rambling, ranting is painful to read.... Either go back to school or get a "Writing for Dummie's" book.
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Posted by JaDee (+67) 9 years ago
bump
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Posted by JaDee (+67) 9 years ago
ashley Dawn

dont forget half of these people dont even live here. that are responding to these'
forume.
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Posted by JaDee (+67) 9 years ago
Bonine JR.

Im waiting for u to say somthing?
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Posted by JaDee (+67) 9 years ago
by the way buck why are you responding to these forume when you dont even live here
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Posted by ABE (+421) 9 years ago
If Mayberry were to get an indoor pool it would end up being to the town what the Zoo is to Billings.

Built, used at first, forgotten about, then broke. Do you know how many people have to use a facility to keep it operational? Or are you just gonna charge the ten or twenty families that use it $ 10,000 a year each, then beg for the rest from someone?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
JaDee = Butch?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mandi, I am a little embarrassed about the format quality of some of my posts. I will try to work on it, I promise- but I assure you the problem isn't that I don't know how to write correctly. Proofreading was a job I used to get paid to do. I have, however, let eagerness get the best of me when responding to some of these posts. By the way, I don't use spell check. And Gunnar, in my formative years I was subjected to standardized testing in every subject. Every year, without exception, I always tested strongest in reading comprehension. In fact, I never tested below the 95th percentile- in the nation. Im pretty sure reading comprehension is not a problem for me.
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Posted by Anastasia (+13) 9 years ago
I hardly think that an indoor pool will be forgotten about .. This is something the kids of miles city have dreamed about forever it seems. When I was younger I always wondered why the places I went had nice pools but not miles city. Forsyth, Baker, Colstip, even ekalaka have nice pools. Not miles city. And please enough of the comments about if you don't like it move somewhere else. Is it so bad to want to live In miles city AND have a nice place for your kids to swim?
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Posted by ike eichler (+1226) 9 years ago
Has anyone considerd that AD is really a former resident and poster with numerous accounts that posted on MC.com. Useing his guile to stir up the posts. If so, many have fallen for it, and can imagine him LHAO.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Nope, Ike, you are mistaken. I am just a working Mom married to a City employee, and a former Sanjel wife. My dad is a former county employee and I have a pretty diverse collection of personal and professional ties to Miles City. I have only ever had one user name, and despite how it may appear, I truly only have the best interests of Miles City at heart. Im sure all of this doesn't make me sound nearly qualified enough to some to take issue with some of these issues, but having a voice doesn't help anyone if you don't use it. I also do my very best not to get rude with people unless they get rude with me first- but ignorant, black and white, blanket statement, acceptance seeking posters annoy me and just seem to represent equally useless behavior that is so common in small towns like this everywhere.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Someone loves the smell of her own poop.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Anastasia, shouldn't be too much to ask at all, Imo.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Buck-Im sexy and I know it.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
I have been struggling to read this thread, however AshleyDawn's post's give me a headache... Please try to learn to use paragragh's. You are murdering every thing I have ever learned in several years of college education. At least AshleyDawn can spell fairly well,(maybe she knows how to use spell-check.) However the continuous rambling, ranting is painful to read.... Either go back to school or get a "Writing for Dummie's" book.


Mandi, I suggest that you take your own suggestion and learn about apostrophes. Every single one in your post is incorrect.
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Posted by Bobby (+11) 9 years ago
I have known AD for many years. We were classmates. She won't stop until she finishes with her plans. Until then are there any motels with indoor pools?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Bobby, don't know you. Don't flatter yourself. ERIC. (Maybe)
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Eric Hoff, not Bobby, I do know you. But we didn't go to school together and I can't tell you how disturbing it is that you created a profile just to write that one, weird ass post. You're so weird. And creepy. And weird. (Did I already say weird?) Get a girlfriend. Please.
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Posted by hat_3275 (+77) 9 years ago
bump!!!!
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Posted by Forsyth Mike (+475) 9 years ago
Mandi, I suggest that you take your own suggestion and learn about apostrophes. Every single one in your post is incorrect.

Agreed. If that post is the result of "several years of college education," I would advise asking for a refund.
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Posted by little brother (+65) 9 years ago
ashleydawn was married to sanjel?
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Posted by Dan Ries (+24) 9 years ago
Hey Ashley. i can say i very rarely post on here for obvious good reasons. I totally appreciate your passion for a pool. Early on in this post a friend of mine gave you some good information and it seems like maybe you passed right over it. Miles City has some amazing people and will help abundantly when approached with gentle hands. Certainly don't throw the word Bozeman in there, i don't think it will help your case. I do have an idea, many years ago i visited with a lady, who shall remain nameless on a public post. She is a successful business woman in town i assure you. I was interested in a properly taxed and run, parks and recreation department. Her idea simply, a 1 cent tax on every gallon of fuel sold out of Miles City. Ha, amazing idea, and surprisingly done often in other areas. Get it on the ballot and let the people decide. Please try to refrain from generalizations that do not really fit the folks in this town. Sincerely, Good luck
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 9 years ago
A city cannot levy a sales tax without authorization from the state legislature. So, to levy a tax on fuel (and it would have to be more than 1ยข just to cover administration costs), the first thing you would have do is get the state legislature to permit it. They meet again in eleven months. Hop to it.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Dan, thank you very much for the input. Before I respond to your post and update the thread in full, I just need to ask you: what did you mean about not bringing up Bozeman? I guess I just don't quite know where you were going with that. If you get time, Id love to hear more from you about that.
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 9 years ago
Given the current infrastructure problem in MC, IF a 1 cent tax were to be implemented, I would think there are many, many more important things to direct the money toward than an indoor pool.

Oh wait, isn't that a valid argument against the whole indoor pool idea in the first place? I think I read that somewhere (in this thread, I'm quite sure).

AD, you are a smart person. But you aren't getting an indoor pool. Put that mind to good use in helping plan for and develop MC around the oil boom. The city will need people like you to get things done the right way. Check out my post in the oil boom fears thread for some "run with it" ideas.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
Amorette Allison wrote:
"A city cannot levy a sales tax without authorization from the state legislature. So, to levy a tax on fuel..."

I believe there is the option for a "local option gas tax" of up to 2 cents per gallon but it must be adopted on a countywide basis -- i.e. put to a vote of the entire county.

See Montana Code Annotated Title 7, Chapter 14, Part 3:

http://data.opi.mt.gov/bi...7_14_3.htm
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 9 years ago
I did not realize that, David. I know that the bed tax local hotels put on themselves took a whole lot of complex legal hoorah. I can't see the county agreeing to such a tax, but it's nice to know it is an option. We get a whole lot of folks passing through and fueling up, to the tune of around $15,000,000 a year by the last stats I saw.
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Posted by Cindy Stalcup (+586) 9 years ago
Keep reading.... for streets and roads.
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Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
Yes, the local option gas tax could free up the municipal pool funds that are currently being diverted to pay for streets.
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Posted by Dan Ries (+24) 9 years ago
It is simply an idea folks, perhaps a start of something bigger. Yes, there probably are other significant things to spend money on, but that is not what this lady posted about. She certainly isnt asking about oil field ideas. What i meant by the Bozeman comment was simply, most small Montana towns, certainly this one, are very independent. So.....trying to ration that Bozeman has one so we should is probably not gonna get you a gold star. Nothing personal against Bozeman.

Dave, thanks for the trouble to look up and post the actual facts concerning the gas tax. I appreciate the education.

[This message has been edited by Dan Ries (2/1/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Amorette, the bed tax was not something that was locally established. It was established and placed on all hotel and lodging facilities in the entire state of Montana over 20 years ago by our State legistature.

Dan, thank you for the great information. These ideas are exactly what we need. I understand that there are many other needs for Miles City, and I certainly am not naive enough to think that this is something that can just happen overnight. I just want to see that there is progress for Miles City's recreation and activity development. It's discuraging that because of all of these other pressing issues that the idea is being completely taken off the table (or at least on the back burner.The one way, way in the back that's broken).

I think it is important for our City and County Government to keep a balanced list of things that Miles City needs to address, and periodically update the public on the progress and status of the factors concerning and affecting them. This 'tunnel vision' that it seems we have about the direction of our tax dollars and City budget and focus is concerning. Other things that our town needs gets completely neglected, and then in 20 years there will be another incredibly pressing issue that needs to be addressed and resolved(and no, I don't expect that it will be the pool). That's just what I mean- if the financial structure of Miles City doesn't see some redirection and restructure, I worry that these deep rooted management issues will never end, and we will forever be struggling to stay 'afloat'.

Just because the pool isn't in the cards for Miles City in the next couple of years doesn't mean that there can't be progress. As almost everyone that has posted on this thread has said, it takes so much to make a project like this possible- why shouldn't we be progressively working toward the ultimate goal?
Does Miles City currently have town boards/associations that are focused solely on specific City issues and planning? ie. Recreation board, tourism board, local business and sales board, etc. This would be a great way to make sure we are covering all of our bases when it comes to town development and future progress.

Dan, the independence of Miles City and the commitment the people of Miles City feel about their home is one of the things I loved the most about this town when I first moved here- it truly is its own place with its own people- that live by their own standards. As admirable as that quality is I think that sometimes it gets in the way of progress. Sometimes doing everything your 'own way' without fully recognizing all available options ends up limiting you in the long run. I respect Miles City and I respect (most) of the people here. If I thought we wearn't civilized and productive enough as a community to make something so daunting and difficult a reality I never would have started this thread. Like others have said, who am I- just one person. That's true, I am. But as I said in one of my first posts, I do feel like I have a unique perspective to offer on the subject and thought maybe it would be of benefit to look at an 'outsiders' perspective.

The whole debate on me badmouthing Fun2U was a complete manipulation of other posters and their own personal reactions to some of the language contained in my posts. I respect the entire Fun2U effort, everyone involved, and I am grateful that there have been others that are concerned about this issue like I am. I did express disappointment about the way the effort was concluded- and again, I'm an 'outsider' with my 'outsider' point of view. If the website or lack of publically released update/info was a priority to Miles City, someone other than me would have spoken up about it long before I did. Again, 'outsider' thoughts: if something like this were handled like this in Bozeman, there would be public outrage- it would be completely unacceptable to the community and the people interested in the effort and its progress. Just to clarify, I am comparing Miles City to the only other community that I have lived in because its the only frame of reference I have to compare it to- but I am very aware of how very different they are fundamentally from one another. Bottom line: I did not start this thread to talk crap about Fun2U. One word: PARANOID. Yeah? Yeah.

Checking out how other cities in Montana comparable to us population and structure-wise and how we 'measure up' and compare in relation to our city resources, programs, community development and balance of business, I think would be beneficial to our officials and to citizens privately. Perspective is good. Loving your community is great, but making sure that you are doing your part as an individual to make sure your community is making all positive progress that it can to improve and preserve quality of life for its residents is important, too.
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Posted by Dave Golterman (+243) 9 years ago
Amorette, the pool in Bozeman makes money. Period. I never said grants are magic. Not at all. But they don't all require matching, either. There are a lot of other people that are eligible to apply for grants than just one person.j person that works for the city. They just don't.


This point was made early in the thread and I apologize if someone else has already researched it and posted what they found. Due to the sheer number of posts, I may have missed the reply.

I first checked the City of Bozeman website and while I was able to find budget worksheets for the last few fiscal years, I was only able to determine how much the city fathers had budgeted from the general fund.

I then moved to the Bozeman Daily Chronicle and found a relevant article from last October:

http://www.bozemandailych...002e0.html

Bozeman Daily Chronicle
October 2, 2011

Staffing and operating both Bogert Pool and the Swim Center costs about $940,000 a year, according to Finance Director Anna Rosenberry. Admission fees cover about 30 percent of that, she said. Property taxes pay for the rest.


It appears that income from the various user fees falls far short of what it takes to operate the pools in Bozeman. Now I will admit that the numbers quoted in the article are for both the indoor Swim Center which operates 12 months a year and the outdoor Bogert Center which is a warm weather operation, but according to the article, both facilities are operating at capacity or near capacity, so the only way to get more income would be to raise fees.

[This message has been edited by Dave Golterman (2/2/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
I'm on a roll guys, so just hear me out. I'm going with it.
Another way to implement ideas like this on a smaller scale, still on the same wavelength as the City boards idea, say for a local business owner wanting to actively contribute, and without waiting for all of the other sometimes slow and complicated City Government changes to be made first is this:

1)Local downtown business owners-get together and organize a Downtown Miles City Business Owners Association.

2)Mock up a Mission Statement and Objective for the entire group as well as something everyone can participate in individually if they become a member of the association. Decide on member fees, how they are established, and criteria for what qualifies/doesn't qualify to be eligible to be in the group. Essentially, outlining a business plan just for this. Maybe you can get an example of one somewhere. Only the profit made goes back into Miles City and the decided on group objections. Become an LLC. Maybe, or whatever.

3)I can't remember what 3 said but it seriously just vanished off my computer screen. Gandhi. Forever.

4)A lot of people probably feel like they don't have the time, energy, or desire to do something like this. If anything, to some people it probably feels like a waste of time and money. But it's not. First of all making something like this part of our town is only going to be beneficial-for everyone. It's a way to actively contrribute to the community and at the same time promote your own business. The advertising a group like this would be able to put out as a whole versus individually is going to be so much more, and more effective than on their own. More people of the community are going to be willing to get involved in such events when they aren't just helping one business, getting involved is helping the concept of Miles City business itself. The group itself becomes a representation of that. Getting it?

5)Outline common goals as a group that you would like to accomplish, focusing on the community (or downtown) as a whole. Maybe look at other models for the same idea from other towns....These goals can be focused on big or small changes that need to be addressed when you are a business owner and resident in Miles City. Their really aren't any rules to this (i don't think), other than everyone agreeing on what needs to be done (new seat benches downtown, advertising budget and theme/target idea, monthly or quarterly events, newsletters, etc.) You can get the community involved by letting everyone know what projects you are currently working on, and listening to their ideas. Depending on what goals you guys come up with, you may be looking at dozens, maybe HUNDREDS of volunteers for certain events. A great relationship can develop not only with the other businesses in the group, but within the community, and depending on the success of your projects and what they are, (maybe depending on nothing) there will be donations made to the group. Sometimes really big ones- which may or may not include stipulations of some kind, but regardless- money is good. Being involved in a member-based business group like this automatically legitimizes your business on a whole new level to some people-for instance, a visitor from another town also in one. Your goal just became totally understandable to someone that knows nothing about Miles City or our needs. It's smart advertising, smart business, for a good cause, and shows your genuine concern for the community you serve.

6)Ultimately this is the result: Miles City becomes more unified, and people will take more notice of the impact small business ownership and success has on a community. People will think twice next time they need something about heading straight for Wal-Mart to get it, but instead think of other available and more community-conscious choices first. Individual business will increase, cosmetically (depending on how you use your funds) downtown Miles City will improve, and the welfare of your business community gets put into your hands. You guys can change the dynamic of the business community here without waiting for other things to change. Instead of seeing doors closing to local business Miles City will be noticed for its commitment to local business and the support it gets. People will wonder what other businesses we might need here, as it looks like a good place to open one.

Why don't we already have this?
Remember, this isn't limited to downtown Miles City. Look around, and you will find ways to associate your business with other businesses in the community, regardless of your location. This is just an example.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Dave-
It's interesting that you found that. My Mom just told me today that the City is proposing all of these new ideas for what to do with The Swim Center, because they can't continue to maintain it like it is now, it's old and inefficient; they are building a new, bigger, more bad-ass and high tech pool. Jesus, that Bozeman. So much damn money, where do they get it all?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
That must have been the topic of the article you found. The City people in charge of overseeing the Swim Center decided that it was no longer financially responsible to continue to run it as it stands now. So they came up with a more efficient, financially conscious pool to build, re-evaluated the costs, figured in location options, decided on just one location with both an indoor and outdoor pool, reassessed the needs of the community, and decided to also throw in an entire fitness and health center, enclosed tennis court, and some other stuff but my Mom will have to remind me tommorrow. Either way, apparently this new plan is going to save a bunch of money every year. It's amazing how they fix the obstacles in front of them. I am just amazed, like, 'wtf?'
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Dave, thank you very much for posting that link. Everyone interested in this thread should read it. I'll try to find a more updated link about the new facility- perfect example of looking at how other communities handle and decide on issues we also face. There is a lot to be learned that way. 'Let your shortcomings define you, or let your shortcomings inspire you, make you stronger.' Sleepy time!
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
It might be a good time to point out that Gallatin County has 89,000 residents with a per capita income of $19,074, while Custer County has less than 12,000 with a per capita income of $15,876. Bozeman also has a university and lots of tourists. Makes eating half a million a year to have a pool a lot more feasible.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (2/2/2012)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
I'm on a roll guys, so just hear me out.


AD: You're on a roll alright...

The assumptions in your 6-point "plan" exposes your nativity. Fun2u created a very through business plan, etc. Once again, all of the mission statements, business plans, cooperation and participation by local businesses, etc. won't buy you a cup of coffee, much less a swimming pool. There is little support in Miles City for such a facility until the economics of the community change.

You need to come to terms with the fact that, like Dorothy, you're not in Kansas anymore. And until the local economy changes, pushing forward with ideas that have been discussed hundreds of times, is only going to cause someone to drop a house on you.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
People on this kind of roll should be under a 72-hour psychiatric hold.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Yes Ashley, the folks at Fun2U already did all that legwork. What needs to be done next is get their mission statement back out there, because obviously it is not widely known and certainly not understood. Next come up with some new ideas for funding. Besides a tax, that method has failed numerous times before.
Your exuberance is a breath of fresh air, if you could contribute it to the efforts already underway and get it active again, you might get somewhere. It will all come together, it will happen. Someday. Along with everything else. Be patient. Your descendants will thank you for it.
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Posted by Mary B. (+201) 9 years ago
But I have no clue what I'm even talking about, I just like to hear myself talk and think I'm smart.


It is difficult to take Ashley and her efforts seriously when she makes statements such as these, and she clearly demonstrates this attitude with comments such as "The Bozeman pool makes money." When Dave points out to her that this statement is in fact, not true, rather than concede that she was wrong, she turns it into a testimony of Bozeman's can-do spirit and eagerness to turn an inefficient, outdated center into something better for the community. Based on what? Conversations with her mom? Or just sheer speculation to help further her point?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
You guys are misunderstanding my post regarding the downtown association. That has absolutely NOTHING to do with an indoor pool.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Mary, read the article.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
I was making a generalized comment about the need for a local business owner association in Miles City, as well. It was just another thing I noticed that we don't have here, that I believe would be beneficial to our town to have. Im aware that Fun2U already had a business model they were following, although im sure if at some point the effort resumes, some reassessment of that might be necessary. Mary, its interesting how the tone of this thread has changed a bit, but yours continues. Just an observation.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
http://www.downtownbozema...ut-us.html

Check out the website and info on how they contribute and enrich the community

[edited - added url tag]
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Posted by Amorette F. Allison (+1917) 9 years ago
1) Learn to use URL tags.

2) BOZEMAN IS NOT MILES CITY! I lived in Bozeman for more than 20 years. I am very, very, very sure that Bozeman is a bigger city, with a much bigger tax base. What works FABULOUSLY in a western Montana college town next to two ski resorts is not going to work the same way in Miles City.

3) I keep hoping that the indoor pool will be built as soon as we get new water and waste water plants; all the waste water, storm sewer, and water lines are upgraded; the streets are all freshly paved with new curb and gutter; the parks are all in excellent condition with no major improvements or upgrades needed, the City Hall has the new roof it needs and the interior restored; . . .

4) I'm done.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Amorette, I understand that Miles City is not Bozeman. Sorry about the url tag. How do you feel about the business association? If people were following this thread more closely I think they would notice that it isn't only about the pool anymore.
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
New slogan possibilities:

1. AD: She's not really JUST about the pool.

2. A town without AshleyDawn is a town without a pool debate.

3. Miles City- Little Bozeman w/o the people, money, or pool.

4. Just who the Hell is AshleyDawn anyway?

5. Our AshleyDawn can argue the crap out of your AshleyDawn!

6. It might be Fun2U but it's incessant crappiness to AshleyDawn.


FH
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Posted by Dan Ries (+24) 9 years ago
Amorette, i don't know how to use url tags either. A more helpful #1 would be instructions. Jeff or somebody made the comment that a tax increase has been tried for this before. NO it hasn't, its actually not legal as Dave taught me. I am sure there is a way to establish and fund a parks and recreation department, instead of a few guys that are understaffed and over parked. Anytime and unfortunetly everytime these post get personal. Ashley really started out peacefully, she got defensive because the negativity started right away. Amorette, you have a brilliant mind and a ton of useful historical information, i would encourage you to be a leader on these posts for all concerned. Good luck Ashley, i am out.

[This message has been edited by Dan Ries (2/2/2012)]
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Posted by BDrew (+19) 9 years ago
I have an idea. Just throw up a big aluminum sided shed over the Oasis. It would be indoor. Win win win right there.
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Posted by Jimmie (+61) 9 years ago
Ashley really started out peacefully


Really Dan? Not how her very first post started out.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Dan- I am so glad you had the reading comprehension ability to notice that this thread began in a positive(ish) tone. Where were you a week ago? LOL
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Frustration was present, yes. However like I have said before there are so many flags here for me, on the outside looking in at this. My big question right now is this: What has changed from the time that the most recent indoor pool effort was active and actively supported by the community to now- that it seems I am being scoffed at for even having such a notion. What made it feasible 2 years ago, but not now- when if anything, the incoming business and visitor numbers are only rising? The water main concerns are certainly not new, so what changed the level of support from the general public on this issue?
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
Amorette, i don't know how to use url tags either. A more helpful #1 would be instructions.


You successfully made a post. I wonder if, while you make your next post, there might be some way you could locate this information. It might involve looking below the "continue" button on the posting form.
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Posted by Steve Allison (+981) 9 years ago
Just a bit of math on the pool subject. Bozeman spends close to a million tax dollars a year on two pools, one of which is outside. Rounding up and dividing by two means $500,000.00 each. I feel the rounding up is justified by the fact the indoor one probably costs more. The official population of Miles City is just under 9,000. rounding this up and dividing 500,000.00 by it, leaves $50.00 per person per year plus the use fees to have a pool here. This means Amorette and I would pay $100.00 per years and a family of four would be $200.00 per year. As far as Fun2U goes, I commend them on their efforts, it should be done every so often in order to judge current demand and economics. This may change very soon if Miles City has much oil boom effect. As to an organization of businessmen in town, it is called the Chamber of Commerce and can be contacted at 234-2890. They would probably love help working on local events and activities.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1671) 9 years ago
I know that we have hammered the point I am about to make into the ground on more than occasion here on mc.com, but I feel it is worth reiterating in light of this conversation.

I am a total supporter of the idea of an indoor pool, though I think that a concrete outdoor pool is probably more of a feasible and attainable idea for our community, with the foresight at construction to be able to enclose the facility at some point in the future, if the funding is there. I have been a supporter in the past, and will continue to do so in the future. BUT, the lack of a pool is NOT the reason for suicides in Miles City. In fact, of the first 15 most suicidal cities in America (all per capita), Tulsa, Phoenix, Fresno, Portland, Pittsburgh, Wichita, Jacksonville, Denver, Miami, Mesa, Albuquerque, Sacramento, Tucson, Colorado Springs, and Las Vegas, every single one has a plethora of concrete pools and swim facilities, as well as more activities than one child can possibly squeeze into one day.

But, I know. There is nothing to do here, nothing to do here, nothing to do here. Well, as I just mentioned, people are no happier in places where there is plenty to do. And in fact, there is more than enough to do here, if you go looking for it. Kids will be as busy or as bored as they and their parents want them to be. Softball, baseball, soccer, football, basketball, Caledonian dancing, gymnastics, tap/ballet, art classes at the Art Center, Girl/Boy Scouts, Tai Kwan Do, band, piano lessons, supporting the Cowboys/Cowgirls in all of their activities, supporting the Pioneers/Lady Pioneers, fishing, hunting, reading, bike riding, volunteering, and so on. Add all of these opportunities to the school that kids attend most of the day, and the homework and/or jobs that they may have, and I would say a child's day would be sufficiently full if they so choose.

The loudest argument that I hear about any of the above is that they cost money. Well, just about every activity has some sort of scholarship program to help offset the costs of participation, if only the parents would request the assistance. A program cannot help if it is not aware of the need. And, in all honesty, if a parent does not want to pay the participation fee for any of the existing activities, I can't see how a $4 or $5 per swim session fee would be any more feasible. Also, as I've heard more than once, not all kids are into sports. I understand this, and the list above includes plenty of things that are not sports-related, but if a child is not going to be interested in sports of any kind, I think the odds of him or her being interested in swimming is negligible.

Good luck with your endeavors. But, a swimming pool is not the solution to our problems, any more than it has been a solution to the problems in Colorado Springs or Sacramento. It should be but a tool in our kit, another option to offer our citizens looking for fulfillment. It is up to our citizens to want to be fulfilled in the first place.
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Posted by Russell Bonine (+246) 9 years ago
For those of you who keep saying that Miles City is too small of a community to support an indoor pool I would suggest that you take a trip to Powell and Cody WY. These two towns are both in the same county in WY and both of them have very nice indoor recreation facilities that include swimming pools and recreation pools.

The population of Powell is around 5,000 and Cody is around 9,000. The reason that Powell built their facility was because the state required that they build a new high school but refused to fund a replacement pool that was part of the old high school. The community and the county responded and they built what they have now.

As an aside Powell also has a community owned department store. They sold shares to the residence when the Anthony's store closed up. It has been a success from the beginning.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3712) 9 years ago
So where did the money come from?
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Posted by Steve Allison (+981) 9 years ago
I believe it was in the 80s maybe earlier, there was a government stimulus program, call something else the, that helped small towns with projects like pools. Miles City tried for one at the time but was too big a community, I know hard to believe we could be considered too big but that was the program at the time. With dollars being tight now, Government spending on frivolous things, like pools, is out of fashion. Grants and the like tend to forbid them or eliminate them some way.
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Posted by Russell Bonine (+246) 9 years ago
I am not sure what funded the facility in Cody. I think there was a lot of private funding. For the Powell facility it was funded primarily through a 1% cap tax.

Here is a link that explains the details better than I could.

http://voteyescaptax.word...com/powell
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Sept. 20, 2011 '?MILES CITY - A San Francisco-based independent film writer, producer and director is making suicide in Eastern Montana the subject of a 20-minute short film that is expected to premiere in March.

The film, targeted toward youth, will feature interviews that are already under way with residents whose lives have been affected by suicide.

"I'm using this film to activate change," producer Lise Swenson said.

Swenson teaches film at San Francisco City College and works for the Miles City-based Global Health Equity Foundation, a nonprofit organization founded in 2007 that seeks to address challenges faced by health and mental health care providers in rural areas. The foundation serves as a catalyst for community awareness, communication and involvement. Several community forums have already been held to facilitate discussion.

Suicide has ravaged Eastern Montana, an area known for its sparse population, extreme climate range, and "cowboy-up" mentality and culture, said Kasey Stanton, 21, from Miles City. He is studying psychology at Montana State University Billings and received an internship with the Global Health Equity Foundation, where his primary role was to research and collect data on suicide, depression and the stigma associated with mental illness in Eastern Montana.

Several factors exacerbate the suicide rate in this corner of the state, including a lack of mental health awareness, an inadequate availability of mental health services and social isolation, according to Stanton's research.

Between 2000 and 2006, the suicide rate in five counties in Eastern Montana - Custer, Fallon, Powder River, Sheridan and Roosevelt - ranked nationally at or above the 80th percentile.

At least five children from Poplar Middle School on the Fort Peck Reservation in northeastern Montana, home to the Assiniboine and Sioux tribes, killed themselves in 2009. Even more tried. During the 2010-2011 school year, two more high school students in the same area committed suicide.

"It is evident suicide has persisted as a formidable, although often covert and unspoken issue in the state of Montana," Stanton said.

There are myriad reasons for the high incidence, Stanton said. But one reason he highlights is that in Montana, firearms are readily available. Of all suicides committed in the state, 66 percent are completed with a firearm compared with 50 percent nationwide. Thirteen percent of those committing suicide hanged themselves, and 10 percent used drugs.'



Read more: http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/article_2643b05a-0528-5fd7-bac5-700f13bb8e6f.html#ixzz1lGWRrr1x
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Steve, I am familiar with the Chamber. The association I was referencing is something that is formed completely separate from the Chamber, and has different objectives. If you get time to look into it, you will realize what a great idea it is for Miles City, and how it could help accomplish a lot of the things that the people in our community would love to see. Most towns, in fact, have some type of one. In conjunction with also having a Chamber. It would be a great thing to have here, and fun fact for ya! our population, tax base, and other considerable factors do not affect the likelihood of benefit it would serve the community. As far as your comment about the fundraising efforts for the pool, I'm really not sure what to say. A public opinion poll might be what you find more streamlined with what you believe to be the positive attributes of a on-again, off-again community fundraising and planning project for a pool- That's just not what organizations as Fun2U are started for.

Cindy- Your head is buried in the sand. Wake up, we have a serious suicide problem in Eastern Montana. It is indisputable fact.
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Posted by PrincessGB (+122) 9 years ago
Is there anything you don't know about? While you are adding your 2 cents, I'll add mine, when exactly were you married.....twice? Just saying
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Nonprofit Innovators Battle Obstacles to Creative Solutions
By Nicole Wallace

October 2, 2011


Students in Project Exploration's weeklong Forensic
Investigators Program collect evidence at a staged crime
scene, analyze it, and present their findings during a mock
trial. Courtesy of The Chronicle of Philanthropy Keep up with the ways nonprofits are changing their programs and operations in our new blog, Mission: Innovation.

The research had been sitting on the shelf for years. A $200-million federal study found that people at high risk of developing diabetes could cut the odds by 50 percent with intensive counseling on healthy eating and exercise. But the cost of the counseling approach used in the study was too high to expand the program widely.

Then the YMCA of Greater Indianapolis and professors from the Indiana University School of Medicine designed a low-cost version of the program that achieved the same results. Now the YMCA's Diabetes Prevention Program has spread to 43 cities, with more in the works.

The program's expansion has been spearheaded by the national YMCA's three-person innovation team, which is charged with scanning the business landscape, societal trends, and activities at local YMCA's for ideas to help the organization better meet its mission.

The innovation team is unusual in the nonprofit world, but it's helped make the cultivation of good ideas more deliberate, says Neil Nicoll, chief executive of the YMCA of the USA, in Chicago.

"In the world that we live in as nonprofits, it's very easy not to see beyond the end of your nose," he says. "You're just running so fast trying to keep up. It struck me that we needed a disciplined approach with a team of people who were looking 10 or 15 years down the road."

Adversity Fosters Ideas

Like the YMCA, a small but growing number of nonprofit organizations are taking a more planned approach to innovation, hiring staff members and starting programs designed to foster new ideas. They are convinced that to stay relevant, organizations must challenge current practices and look for ways to improve what they do.

But the hurdles are significant. Money for experimentation is hard to come by. Carving out the time to try something new while keeping current efforts going is difficult. And for reasons both practical and psychological, the nonprofit world has a deeply ingrained fear of failure.

Facing significant cuts in government aid and the specter of another recession, too many groups feel like innovation is something that will have to wait for an improved economy, says Kenneth Foster, executive director of the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts, in San Francisco.

By contrast, Mr. Foster thinks that finding more effective ways to do things is even more important during tough times. He says that participating in a Doris Duke foundation-sponsored innovation program helped Yerba Buena develop the nimble mind-set the group needed to navigate the recession. (See article.)

"If you were stuck in a very traditional way of working, then you were totally thrown by the crash," says Mr. Foster. "You didn't know what to do or how to get out of it."

Breakthroughs, he says, are more often born out of adversity than plenty: "Nobody innovates when they're fat and sassy."

Exactly what qualifies as an innovation is a matter of debate. But Aaron Hurst, president of the Taproot Foundation, in New York, argues for an expansive definition.

Faced with the challenge of how to attract more skilled professionals willing to volunteer for charities, Taproot tested more than a dozen ideas to increase recruitment. The one that made a difference was shortening its application from 20 questions to four.

Redesigning a form isn't front-page news, but it had a big impact on Taproot's ability to fulfill its mission, says Mr. Hurst. The organization recruited one-third more volunteers in the year after making the change.

"We tend to want to celebrate the big, fancy innovations," he says. "But there's so much amazing, sustaining innovation that's going on all the time that doesn't get celebrated."

Innovation is an active process that involves people with different perspectives thinking about ways to do things better, gathering information, testing small ideas, and putting together disparate thoughts, says Gerald Chertavian, head of Year Up, a Boston charity that helps low-income young adults gain skills and entry-level jobs.

"There is a danger in seeing innovation as the inspiration of one person sitting in a dark room with a towel on their head thinking about the next great idea," he says. "Great innovation is a culmination of a lot of thought and the synthesis of diverse opinion."

Fear of Failure

Paying for innovation is a big challenge, because most groups struggle just to cover their annual program needs. Even for groups that have a surplus, restrictions on funds are an impediment to innovation. The use of government money is highly restricted, and individuals generally want their gifts to go toward programs.

Unfortunately, even foundations are not a likely source of money for innovation, say some nonprofit leaders.

Foundations are willing to pay for program costs and, to a lesser extent, operating expenses, but it's very difficult to win grants for high-risk experimentation, says Andrew Zolli, executive director of PopTech, a New York charity that supports efforts to use emerging technology to solve global problems. "Funders don't want to fund failures," he says.

The projects with the biggest potential are often the most risky, but program officers are judged on and rewarded by the impact of the grants they make, not by the risks that they take, says Mr. Zolli. Imagine, he says, that a program officer has a choice between one program that has a 90-percent chance of lowering obesity among 10 percent of children and another that has a 30-percent chance of decreasing obesity among a far bigger share of kids.

"If you're looking at that and you're measured by the outcomes you create, you're going to gravitate to the surer bet," says Mr. Zolli.

Charities know that grant makers want to back winners, so they feel they must hide their mistakes or risk losing support, says Darell Hammond, leader of KaBoom, a Washington charity that promotes the building of playgrounds. The result is more talk about innovation than actual innovating, he says.

"A lot of times, unfortunately, it's putting lipstick on the proverbial pig to try to gussy yourself up for more funding," he says. "You start to put an innovative spin on the exact same thing you were doing yesterday."

Barriers to Change

Not everyone thinks the lack of money for risky projects is the primary barrier to innovation among nonprofits.

"If you are a charismatic nonprofit leader, you are going to be able to raise money to do early-stage innovation," says Ben Hecht, head of Living Cities, a coalition of grant makers and financial institutions based in New York.

While that may be true, it's what comes next that is often the problem, says Jeff Bradach, managing partner of the Bridge-span Group, a Boston nonprofit organization that provides management consulting to charities and foundations. He says the "innovation pipeline" breaks down when organizations try to answer two questions: Does it work, and if it does, how can it be expanded widely?

If the charity isn't rigorous enough in its evaluation, it's hard to know whether the new approach warrants expansion, says Mr. Bradach.

Sometimes the people who care the most about a charity can be the biggest barriers to change.

Nonprofit board members and longtime employees often hold those positions because of their dedication to the work organizations have done in the past, says Ben Cameron, who oversees arts grant making at the Doris Duke Charitable Foundation, in New York.

"Those two groups, frankly, are least invested in dramatically rethinking prevailing practice, not out of stubbornness or obstinance but because they are committed to and love the way it has been," he says.

Practices in the nonprofit world that make sense in their own right can also have the unintended consequence of holding back new ideas.

While evaluation is critical in deciding which programs should receive scarce dollars, it could also act as a brake on innovation, says Anne Marie Burgoyne, a director at the Draper Richards Kaplan Foundation, in San Francisco. "If you design those systems too early, it takes away from your ability to be innovative because you start to focus on outcomes before you've focused on the possible," she says.

Similarly, the pressure to grow can hinder innovation, says Gabrielle H. Lyon, head of Project Exploration, a Chicago group that offers science programs for inner-city students.

While the charity is expanding the number of children it serves in Chicago, for now it has decided to hold off on expansion to other cities, she says. Project Exploration has decided it can make the biggest difference by improving its programs so other groups can emulate them. "It would be fabulous if a funder came to us and said, 'What you're doing is great. I want you to do it for the next 10 years with exactly the same number of kids,'" says Ms. Lyon. "Imagine how much better we could serve those kids."

In the end, innovation may be best understood as never fully accepting the status quo, says Chris Krehmeyer, head of Beyond Housing, in St. Louis.

He says that fostering innovation is a critical part of his job as a nonprofit leader but that he almost never uses the word. His focus instead is on creating a culture in which he and his employees always ask, Is there a better way to do this?

Says Mr. Krehmeyer: "Great changes don't come because someone says, 'I want to innovate.'"


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tips For Nonprofit Innovation

Create opportunities for employees to brainstorm.
Involve people with different responsibilities, levels of experience, points of view, and ways of thinking. A diversity of perspectives is key.
Set innovation goals and hold yourself accountable.
Ask clients what they want and need.
Bring in speakers, visit other organizations, and explore different disciplines.
Don't reinvent the wheel. Find out what other groups are already doing.
Start with small tests. Learn by doing, not by studying a topic to death.
Don't just collect data. Take the time to analyze and reflect.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1671) 9 years ago
Cindy- Your head is buried in the sand. Wake up, we have a serious suicide problem in Eastern Montana. It is indisputable fact.


I am assuming that you are addressing me. If so, I don't believe that is what I said at all. Thank you for telling me that my head is buried in the sand though. To that point, I respectfully disagree. I'm not sure what the article has to do with this discussion. No one is disputing whether or not suicide is a concern in Miles City. My comment addresses the fact that a pool is not the solution. Nowhere in your article does it list the lack of a pool, or in fact a lack of any recreational facilities, as primary causes of suicide. I would actually concur with your article that

Several factors exacerbate the suicide rate in this corner of the state, including a lack of mental health awareness, an inadequate availability of mental health services and social isolation, according to Stanton's research.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Princess, this thread is not about my personal life-contribute or go stick your nose in someone else's business.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
Cindy- Your head is buried in the sand. Wake up, we have a serious suicide problem in Eastern Montana. It is indisputable fact.

Which no one was disputing - beyond the idea that a pool will solve everything.

Are you and Denton part of some sort of cult? YOU'RE NOT GETTING A PROCREATING POOL IN MILES CITY BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO GODDAMNED POOR PER CAPITA TO AFFORD ONE.

THE PARAMETERS WITHIN WHICH YOU ARE BEING FORCED TO WORK (TAX BASE, LEGAL ISSUES, FUNDING, ETC) PRECLUDE YOU FROM A POSSESSING A MUNICIPAL POOL FACILITY.

YOU CAN NOT HAZ!!!
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Posted by Cindy Stalcup (+586) 9 years ago
Me? I have not said anything about suicides although my head may be in the sand. Depression is a chemical imbalance and is treatable through medication. Having or not having an indoor swimming pool is not going to make spit bit of difference.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Yes, Denise, I was addressing you. Sorry I got your name wrong. I never said that a pool would solve this problem for us. I do, however, think it would help. Physical activity is one of the most affective ways to overcome stress, depression, obesity, among other things...I don't want to debate over sports in Miles City, but I will say that there is a very apparent bias reflected by the community towards certain activities available to our youth. I think its great how supportive we are of certain ones, but there are others that carry on virtually unnoticed, even seem to simply be ignored altogether by everyone that isn't directly involved. This is just my observation-grain of salt.
We should have a pool- I really think we need one. The opportunities would also be available and accessible to all people in the community, not just our youth. How many other activities in Miles City can you say that about?>
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Posted by Jimmie (+61) 9 years ago
Ashley, two questions.

What do you pay in property taxes every year?

How did Guesthouse persuade a Mensa member to work their front desk? Must be a great benefits package.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1671) 9 years ago
Then why do cities with the highest suicide rates all have plenty of swimming opportunities? The reasoning behind suicide is far too complex to easily categorize, as you have done with

I'm gonna get a little mean here, but it's really not so suprising that our town has such scary and concerning suicide rates. OPEN YOUR EYES, GUYS. We can all pull off BHS every year with our eyes closed but we can't teach our kids to swim.


I am a supporter of an indoor pool, but even without, my children have managed to learn how to swim, as have most of their friends. Will they ever be competitive swimmers? No. But they will also not be competitive downhill skiers. Both of which are the pitfalls of living in a poor, rural community in the plains of Eastern Montana. Is that the end of the world? No. They can swim, and enjoy swimming, so I'm not too concerned about their time in the Short Course 50 Free.

Some day a pool will happen in Miles City. I hope to be a part of that. It will be accomplished by those who remain positive and uplifting and who build healthy working and personal relationships with their business peers and neighbors, remaining practical in the process.

As to

I think its great how supportive we are of certain ones, but there are others that carry on virtually unnoticed, even seem to simply be ignored altogether by everyone that isn't directly involved.


I'd be curious to get your take on this, since you've thrown it out there. What activities receive more than their fair share? Which are ignored altogether? And who is doing the supporting/ignoring that you are referring to? Isn't it up to the people involved to drum up the support in the first place?

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (2/2/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Denise,
I don't want to disclose any more of my opinions about the support level inconsistencies I have noted when comparing different activities available in the community. As I said, it is a personal opinion. I have no evidence to support that opinion other than my own observations, which I suspect wouldn't be deemed valid if I chose to divulge them to milescity.com.

Thank you for your input into this thread, Denise. I hope we can come together as a community to get an indoor pool in the future, also. I do know that if the people of Miles City don't think they need a pool, they won't get a pool. That is certain. We all cultivate the environment we live in, work in, play in. Each one of us, at every level of the community.

Although I think I may have caught just a slight undertone of condescention in your last statement (probably directed toward me, Im assuming) (THAT'S RIGHT), I really valued your contribution to the thread and definetely feel like you offered some food for thought. I have decided that no matter who you are, what you have to say, or how legit what you have to say may acatually be- whether it's on an internet forum or town hall meeting or your kids soccer practice, you will never say all the right things to all the right people at all the right times, leaving everyone satisfied with every little thing you say and do. Live and learn, move forward, and don't give up. Do the best you can- nothing more, nothing less. That's my approach to everything. Thanks again, Denise.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Jimmie,
I don't know exactly, but I want to say it's around 2,000. I could be way off.
I have no idea what group or whatever you're referring to at the Guesthoiuse. Depending on what it is, maybe you could call and talk to them about it.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Miles City wont get anything that the people in the community don't collectively agree on and support- zip. Which seems like, well, almost everything you can think of. Im done today, im exhausted!
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Posted by Bridgier (+9195) 9 years ago
Bizarre.
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Posted by Cory Cutting (+1272) 9 years ago
Well that's a first!
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
AshleyD obviously don't know jack about MC. GO COWBOYS!!!
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Posted by clm (+104) 9 years ago
"I'm on a roll guys, so just hear me out. I'm going with it."

Diatribe or Manifesto?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Niether. What would you call it, Connie Muggli?
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sponsor
Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
I wouldn't call it Connie Muggli. There's already a person by that name. Why not call it "Ashley Comes the Dawn wearing my Justin Bieber watch?"

FH
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Clm is Connie Muggli. Economic Development. Hm. That's ironic.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
I'm unclear on irony. Is ranting like a lunatic and being upset when people don't respect you also ironic?
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
No, not particularly.
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Posted by Lorin Dixson (+596) 9 years ago
I never thought this would go to even a hundred posts. So I guess I will put in my 2 cents. Your neighbor Terry has had a pool since at least 1939, and has been able to maintain it and keep it open. They always some how manage the cost with a much smaller tax base than MC.
It is not a indoor pool and was hand dug and the concrete hand poured by the WPA, I think in 1939 maybe a year or two before that. I doubt that with todays rules and regs it could be done that way now, but maybe a lot of it could be done with local volunteer contractors, maybe covered at a later date.
It was the high light of a rare summer time trip to town when I was a kid.

[This message has been edited by Lorin Dixson (2/3/2012)]
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
While we are on the subject of local economic development, anyone know the status on the train depot 'project'? (After that thread I posted, I will forever feel compelled to put quotations around the word 'project'-see, there it is again!)
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Posted by ABE (+421) 9 years ago
Hey A.D. ? Is the laundry "folded yet"?

[This message has been edited by ABE (2/3/2012)]
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moderator
founder
Posted by David Schott (+17055) 9 years ago
The last time I saw Terry's "cement pond" it was pretty scary looking. It looked like it was hand-dug and hand-poured 70 years ago.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Yes, Arron. It is. Asshole. The taxi there to pick you up yet?

whahahahahaha
i'm creepier than you are.

hahaha

*evilsmilemeniaclelaughter*
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Anyone else see the indoor pool committee meeting scheduled for Tuesday listed in Friday's paper? Is it open to the public?
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10001) 9 years ago
AshleyDawn wrote:
Yes, Arron. It is. Asshole. The taxi there to pick you up yet?

Hey, watch your language.
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Posted by AshleyDawn (+346) 9 years ago
Sure thing.
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