Midwives/home births
Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
I am new to Montana, so I don't know much about health care. I am 26 weeks pregnant and I would like to do an at home birth. However, I don't know of any midwives here or if they allow home births. Does anyone have any experience or information about this subject?
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Posted by Bridgier (+8985) 9 years ago
I think it has to do with how your house is zoned.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 9 years ago
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Posted by MitchandCarrie (+155) 9 years ago
sent you an email
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Posted by jessiker (+284) 9 years ago
Montana does allow homebirths; the above link for Mountain Midwives is the only place that has a midwife that will travel to Miles City, as I understand it. They also have an apartment, essentially, off of their office in Billings that is available if that becomes a need.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+756) 9 years ago
We did the home birth method with a midwife twice. No hospital, no drugs, no doctor. It didn't hurt a bit, no biggie, as I had taken a friend's advice and had a few shots of whiskey.
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Posted by Jeff Snyder (+84) 9 years ago
I wonder why men are replying to this...I would prefer women who know something about it respond. Thanks.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Argh...my husband was signed in ^. But I would prefer only women who know about the subject to respond.
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Posted by RB (+441) 9 years ago
I live here in Miles City and just had my baby at home 7 weeks ago with Pat, the owner of mountain midwives, the link posted above. There is another midwife in Great Falls named Ollie who will travel here too. Your other option is travelling to Billings to have your baby with Katrina in their birth suite, or to SD to have your baby there in Jeanie's birth suite. Please call me if you'd like to know more 951-1936. I also know of a massage therapist/doula here in MC who had her 3 kids at home, shes wonderful. Your making an awesome choice, I loved it! We should meet sometime
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16662) 9 years ago
Argh...my husband was signed in ^. But I would prefer only women who know about the subject to respond.


This is a big mistake post, and leads someone like me to join the conversation like a wolf after cow elk afterbirth.

First question is, is the kitchen sink in your doublewide readily sanitized? By sanitized, that means the electric element on your low budget stove needs to heat 5 gallons of water to a boil in 30 minutes or less. IS YOUR STOVE CAPABLE OF SUCH FEATS OF STRENGTH???

Second question is, even if you get a competent midwife to agree to come assist in the birth, will she be left to do her job, and not have a trailer full of relatives standing around criticizing her every move and decision? WILL THERE BE AN AIRING OF THE GRIEVANCES???

Last question is, having posted such a subject on milescity.com, with such a flippant first response, will you ever post again? OR WILL YOU TAKE DOWN THE POLE OF FESTIVUS AND GO HOME???
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Oh! I was just emailing Pat, actually. There is a birth suite in Billings? When I looked, I couldn't find it. I saw the Great Falls one though. My mom had a midwife with one of my brothers, she was tired of hospitals. This is only my 2nd pregnancy but my first experience was horrible. I ended up with a c-section and I really believe it was unnecessary. I have gotten a few emails and everyone says they loved their experiences. I am still learning about some of this stuff and it's something I would really like to do.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Gunnar Emilsson, you are on the wrong topic sounds like you need a day job. Or a hobby other than MC.com. I think there are other posts you could go bother And...it's people like you, and the first person who commented on my post, that make me avoid MC.com. I'm not fond of ignorance. I know you are trying to seem smart but maybe you should go try it out somewhere else. Do you even know what a midwife is? Do I need to pull up a dictionary for you? To me it sounds like you are calling those who live in double wides stupid. That's a huge generalization, to assume that just because I made a mistake on a forum for women that I am stupid. To generalize and stereotype makes you ignorant. Do you need me to find definitions for "generalizing" and "ignorant?" Maybe I should look up sexist for you, too. I'm almost positive men haven't had a midwife experience, unless you have had sex change. Which it's almost sounding like it, since you are becoming so defensive. I can go buy you a dictionary, since it looks like you can only afford the internet in your house and your inability to use it shows

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/27/2011)]
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Posted by Grim Reaper (+76) 9 years ago
Aaedens Mom, it appears that you are very sexist. Maybe you should be doing the dishes and cleaning your single wide instead of bashing men on the internet.
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Posted by Jade S (+146) 9 years ago
I was a CPM for about five years and still, occasionally, will attend births. My preference, for myself, is unassisted birth, but I have had two midwife-assisted births (out of four).

I know midwife assisted birth is legal in MT, and it seems like you have some good references.

I find some fault in your assumption that men cannot experience a midwife-assisted birth. Perhaps not the actual process of birth, but my husband was very grateful to our first midwife, for the experience it afforded him. It was instrumental in our growth as a couple, and influenced our future birth decisions.

Good luck to you.
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Posted by Monica LN (+141) 9 years ago
Ignore these people my dear this place breeds misery if u read everyone's opinions. I had c-sections with both my children (the first was an emergency; the second was scheduled) so I wish you the best of luck! And congratulations I hope everything goes well for you.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
I would just prefer women's responses since they are the ones who give birth. Men don't experience it the same way. And the men who are responding to this post are being extremly rude. I wouldn't have asked this type of question on here but I have a doctor that's new to town and doesn't have answers for these types of questions.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Thank you to those of you who have responded to my question and giving me information without calling me names.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14724) 9 years ago
Mr. Emilsson:

FYI Aaden's Mom: Gunnar is one of the smartest people posting here. If the rest of us had half of his smarts world peace would be wide spread.
~~~~

It's also good to see that all of the bell cows have wandered back into the pasture
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Posted by MollieP (+129) 9 years ago
Although I somewhat admire the idea of birthing at home...If I had done this I wouldn't be here with our little boys at all. I had a seemingly normal pregnancy and then had a blood clot hit my lungs during delivery. Had I not been in the hospital with amazing nurses I wouldn't be typing this today. Miles City has an amazing set of labor/delivery nurses.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Everyone has different experiences. I am not saying this hospital is bad, I just want something different for myself.
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
I hope your baby's father agrees that "the experience" trumps what's safest and best for baby and Mom. But considering how you have made it clear you don't care what men think, I'm guessing your opinion is that Dad can just lump it. "Selfish" is the word that comes to my mind, but that's just my opinion.
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Posted by Big Dave (+439) 9 years ago
I think it has to do with how your house is zoned.


and who your UPS driver is.

On a more serious note though, after having an emergency c-section with our first, our ob-gyn who I trust implicitly (Dr. Rauh) recommended c-sections for our next two. Point is - consult a qualified professional about your pregnancy and subsequent delivery, because with a c-section in your past it may have some serious implications for your upcoming delivery.
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Posted by Sarah Peterson (+379) 9 years ago
I think you'll find that VBACs are more common now than they were in the past. Find an experienced midwife, have a plan B just in case (see Mollie's response), and good luck to you! I had wonderful experiences with both my children at HRHC (one was a spontaneous preemie - glad we were in the hospital), but labor and birth are very intimate experiences and - surprise - very natural occurrances.

Just curious - would either the Billings or Great Falls midwives travel and stay in Miles City before your due date to be here just in case?

I'd like to see another, more progressive option in Miles City. A place to do water births (I'm guessing someone will suggest the Oasis or Spotted Eagle :lol would be nice. I'm done having children, but I know a lot of women are looking for something a bit less "hospital."

That said, the staff at HRHC OB are fantastic! Suzie, Melinda, Katrina, Heidi, Pam, Margie, Meriah, etc. etc. were great.
Best wishes to you!
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Posted by Sarah Peterson (+379) 9 years ago
I think VBACs are more common now than in the past. Find an experienced midwife who's done VBACs before (and make sure your doc is okay with a VBAC - sometimes another C is legitimate), have a Plan B just in case (see Mollie's response), and best wishes to you!

I'm just curious - would your midwife travel to MC before your due date just in case, or would she wait until you were in labor? Do you have a local doula or someone to assist until the midwife arrives? Don't feel obliged to answer - I'm just curious!

I think MC needs more progressive option for births - water birth facility would be great (you know, besides the Oasis or Spotted Eagle !) I know a lot of moms who are looking for something a little less "hospital."

That said, the OB dept. at HRHC is incredible.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
David, I don't know why you are responding to this if you aren't giving helpful/meaningful information. If I want a man's opinion, I will ask my husband or my dr. I don't see what the big deal is about wanting a woman's experience with a midwife. I have never heard of a man having to go through it other than watching so I don't understand why men are being so petty on here. Sorry you are excluded from this conversation?

Anyway. I have a dr and I already know what I can/can't do. If I was high risk, then I wouldn't consider it. I am not sure how I will go about it, since the closest midwives are in Billings and Great Falls is too far. I need to talk to my insurance and find out what all they will cover before I can make an ultimate decision.
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Posted by Bridgier (+8985) 9 years ago
you know, besides the Oasis or Spotted Eagle

Well, from what I understand, the miracle of life is more likely to be initiated in those places rather than culminated, but maybe times have changed.
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Posted by RB (+441) 9 years ago
When I went into labor Pat was at my home in just under 2 hours, and my labor lasted 10 which was a pretty short labor actually so there is time. The total cost of having a midwife for me was just under 3000 dollars. My last birth which was in the hospital here in MC and was a horrible experience, costed me 4000 out of pocket after my insurance payments and it was not a c-section and I was only in the hospital for 30 hours.
And, for those of you saying how unsafe home birth and vbac is, please do your research on the subject before you go preaching about something you have no clue about. For full term healthy women the mortality rate is actually lower than those in the hospital. Aadens mom, call me if you have questions. Have you heard of Ina May Gaskin? You need to read her Guide to Childbirth book! You will feel great and very informed about your decision. I have a copy of it. Everyone, I'd love to meet some more progressive moms around this area, I feel very alone!
And for a water birth, you can buy your own birth pool for not too much money. I didnt do it, but I've seen lots online.

[This message has been edited by RB (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by RB (+441) 9 years ago
Oh and Katrina does have a birth suite in Billings, Pat does not. Katrinas practice is called First Breath Birth, she serves the Billings area, Pat travels. But honestly if you have any choice in the matter I would definatly do it at home its so much more comfortable and you dont have to worry about traveling, packing, etc. It feels awesome being able to lay back in your own bed snuggling your newborn And btw its not near as painful as what they say!
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Posted by Jade S (+146) 9 years ago
You can rent an Aqua Doula, but a blow up pool with a waterbed heater works just as well.

I have labored in water with three of my four and stayed in the water for my last. It was amazing.

VBAC's are common, but not without concerns. The reasons for your section, type of suture, your weight and overall health would all be factors to consider.
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Posted by Steve Allison (+974) 9 years ago
Just to let people know that some extra information is going to be offered, Holy Rosary is hosting a free child birth class on January 28. It begins in the lobby at 8:45 AM. and you are encouraged to bring questions. For those looking to make a birth decision, it is a chance to have questions answered as you tour one set of possibilities. I have no children of my own and do not work for HRH so have no dogs in this fight, just letting people know about an opportunity see first hand and gather info.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
I am a Massage Doula and second year nursing student who has had 3 successful homebirths. Pat,(mountainmidwives) attended the last two here in Miles City. Despite shoulder dystocias with my last two births, Pat delivered them both safely and quickly at home (manually!). As for VBACs, the success rate of a VBAC after one previous cesarean with a low tranverse cut is approximatley 90%. I believe the success rate decreases somewhat with each repeat cesarean. Due to the increase in MATERNAL MORBIDITY caused by repeat cesareans and a national trend towards elective cesarean....VBACs have become increasingly common. For the these same reasons..ACOG (the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology) has implemented new guidelines regarding cesarean and making elective cesarean virtually impossible. As for safety of homebirths..a study of 1000 healthy normal women delivering in the hospital versus 1000 healthy women delivering at home, the hospital births had both increased neonatal and maternal deaths, cesareans, uterine rupture (probably associated with pitocin and cytotec inductions), postpartum hemmorhages, episiotomy and lacerations of every degree. Last time I asked her, Pat had never lost a mother or a baby in her care...your famous Dr. Rauh can say nothing of the sort. While I adore the ladies of labor/delivery at HRH and have enjoyed working with them as a doula and at my nursing clinicals...I would always recommend a home birth whenever possible. If you choose the hospital, I would recommend Dr. Cook. I hav had several clinicals with him and observed him delivering as well. He is an excellent and open-minded doc. To those of you posting on this thread who don't really know the subject matter...again, please do your research before you let your mouth diahrea unleash.
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
I would be curious to know how many babies "Pat" has delivered compared to Dr. Rauh. How many "high risk" pregnancies has "Pat" delivered compared to Dr. Rauh?

The Skeptical OB: Homebirthing is like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Midwives don't deliver high-risk babies, it's against the law for obvious reasons. As for numbers...I'm uncertain how many babies Rauh delivered and I'm sure the casualities had to do with them being high-risk. My point was that assuming a birth is unsafe because it is at home has no basis in facts.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Pregnancy outcomes of 1707 women, who enrolled for care between 1971 and 1989 with a home birth service run by lay midwives in rural Tennessee, were compared with outcomes from 14,033 physician-attended hospital deliveries derived from the 1980 US National Natality/National Fetal Mortality Survey. Based on rates of perinatal death, of low 5-minute Apgar scores, of a composite index of labor complications, and of use of assisted delivery, the results suggest that, under certain circumstances, home births attended by lay midwives can be accomplished as safely as, and with less intervention than, physician-attended hospital deliveries.

Cited by
(2002) Policy Statements Adopted by the Governing Council of the American Public Health Association, October 24, 2001. American Journal of Public Health 92:3, 451-483
Online publication date: 1-Mar-2002.
Citation | Full Text | PDF (336 KB) | PDF Plus (431 KB)
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
That's just from the Farm Study...(Ina May Gaskin) former president of the Midwives Alliance of North America.
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
"Last time I asked her, Pat had never lost a mother or a baby in her care...your famous Dr. Rauh can say nothing of the sort."

Oh yes, I see what you mean. You were defending the safety of homebirth by offering misleading details about hospital births.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Misleading how? The fact is that the US, has the highest maternal morbidity rate of all industrialized countries along with the highest cesarean and induction rates! The Netherlands uses predominantly Midwives and their safety rates put ours to shame. Our women's healthcare is embarrassing. The fact is the trend has nothing to with patient safety, it's all about liability and dollar signs. Like I said, If you don't know the subject..keep your mouth shut. Guess I've stirred up the diahrea pot.

[This message has been edited by Kmama (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Hey David, how many births have you attented? just curious..
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
Misleading in that you led us to believe Dr. Rauh is inferior to "Pat" because Dr. Rauh has lost babies during birth without disclosing that Dr. Rauh handles "high risk" births while "Pat" does not. And, without taking into consideration that Dr. Rauh has almost certainly delivered significantly more babies than "Pat".
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1486) 9 years ago
I have to let you know how unfair that was to force me to get to know the subject matter before unleashing my mouth diahrea....the first thing I learned is that you misspelled diarrhea.

The next thing I learned is that holding in a mouthful of diarrhea or diahrea is really gross!

I couldn't find anything anywhere relating to childbirth, Dr. Rauh, and mouth diarrhea, maybe you could provide more data?

I tried to ask my wife about it but she told me to shut my piehole. What is it with you rude women and your oral fixations?

FH
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
How many births have you attended, Frank?

Speaking of diarrhea, I wish I was Aaden's mom's husband/boyfriend because considering how Aaden's mom feels about his competency as a parent, I'm guessing he's never had to suffer through changing a diarrhea laden diaper. That is a sight that sticks with you for a while.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
How could you possibly know if Dr. Rauh has delivered more babies than Pat? Rauh is retired (and for good reason) while Pat continues delivering and has for 29 years.
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Posted by Meriah Joy (+512) 9 years ago
Have you thought about doing an all natural, no intervention delivery in the hospital. I understand wanting a non-intervention delivery, but doing it where there is neccessary medical backup IF (heaven forbid) something goes wrong sounds much better. Labor & delivery is a very special occasion, but in a few short seconds can become very critical. The staff and doctors will work with you to provide you a great memory but in a safe environment.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
And while Rauh might be a saint to some, lining up all your patients for scheduled inductions/c-sections so you can have the weekends off to go golfing is hardly putting patients first. Btw, I have attended births where Rauh was delivering and seen him in action. I was not the least bit impressed. Having seen Pat in action repeatedly and her success I can vouch for her personally. I have a couple close friends who were nurses for Randall for several years and could tell you more of the ugliness....not to mention he was my doctor as well! I really wish you two dumbasses would go hijack some other thread. What on earth peaked your interest/stupidity about homebirthing!? When did you grow concerned vaginas?!
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1486) 9 years ago
I just talked to Pat and she asked me to tell you that she would prefer you start calling her Nurse Schwaiger from now on since you are displaying such an attitude of hostility to males.

She also wanted me to mention that the fee is 3500 and is not as yet covered by Montana Medicaid.

I asked Dr. Rauh if he wanted to respond to your statements about his professionalism, specifically asking him if he ever delivered any children on the week-ends and he said "Fore!" I think he was talking to me.

FH
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
like i said.......dumbasses.

um, you...specifically. not mankind. i happen to rather enjoy my male companion.
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
Wow, Kira, take a chill pill. I know it pains you, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. Your hostility does little to advance your position.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
It happens to be a subject I'm very passionate about....I'm going to nursing school so I can get my CNM and deliver babies myself. I have spent the last 8 and half years researching the subject and I don't like that people with no education on the matter are chiming in just to derail the subject.......but then doesn't that happen on every thread on this site? Perhaps you should grow up and let the people who have an actual interest in the subject converse......
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
Your professionalism has certainly convinced me.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Go back to the circ thread and laugh about your dick cheese some more.........
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Posted by RB (+441) 9 years ago
Kira you are awesome Thanks for being there for my home birth, I loved every minute of it. And Kira is completely right about everything she has said, I have done my own research and reached the same conclusions. And as of 7 weeks ago, Pat had not lost any moms or babies.
Why not "natural" hospital birth? The comfort of being in your own home, for me it was much less painful because of being in the comfort of my own home, the respect and love shown by your midwife(I hear Holy Rosary has improved greatly in this area though, 2yrs ago when i had my first child I was shocked by how cold the nurses were, and how they acted like they did not care at all).
There is also the issue of the hospital doing things without your permission. In my first birth they gave me pitocin in my IV that they at first told me was only saline, they gave my baby shots and eyedrops before asking for my consent, and they cut her cord right away without even asking. Those are my reasons for home over hospital. But the main one for me is how great it is to lay back in your own bed after having your baby, and not having to worry about packing up your stuff and going home after just having a baby, or getting interrupted by nurses and other patients and their families, phones ringing, doors opening and closing, etc. Its your home, so you are in control of all of those things.
A midwife has training in how to handle emergencies, and she also has the same drugs with her that the hospital would use to handle emergencies, and she gives them to you exactly as the hospital would if need be. She also monitors you closely throughout labor and takes you to the hospital if she even thinks something is slightly out of the ordinary.

[This message has been edited by RB (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6170) 9 years ago
Kmama said:
Misleading how? The fact is that the US, has the highest maternal morbidity rate of all industrialized countries along with the highest cesarean and induction rates! The Netherlands uses predominantly Midwives and their safety rates put ours to shame. Our women's health care is embarrassing.


I believe that if you want a home birth and your OB says that's appropriate for you, go for it. I do have, however, some problems with the above statement. If you are blaming hospital births for the high maternal morbidity rate you need to back up your claim with facts. High morbidity in the US stems from our elitist health care system which ignores poor mothers and our high obesity rate which can cause more pregnancy and birth complications. The Netherlands has socialized medicine and skinny people. I would guess that if the US suddenly began to use predominantly midwives and home births our morbidity rate would skyrocket.
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Posted by RB (+441) 9 years ago
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
The rate of maternal morbidity in the US has been directly linked to the high incidence of induction and c-section, not to obesity or poverty. For these reasons WHO has set guidelines for c-section and induction rates. The US has the highest rates of both and ACOG has implemented new guidelines for Physicians to follow for that reason. New guidelines incude the need for a medical reason for both cesarean and inductions in a hope to lower the percentages nationally. Hospital birth has nothing to do with the morbidity rate as many other industrialized nations have more hospital births than home births however, they do not have the c-section and induction rates that we do and they allow Midwives to deliver in most hospitals! Certified Nurse Midwives are currently allowed to deliver in the hospital in the United States and in most cities you will find that every hospital offers services of CNMs and have birth centers just for women interested in natural child birth. As this trend grows and hopefully moves into our little neck of the woods....I believe we will see our country's statistics improve related to both maternal morbidity and the use of unnecessary intervention.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
I'm still not understanding why men, if they have no experience with a baby, helping with a home birth, and if they are not a doctor, why are you responding to this post? (With the exception of the man who posted about the birthing classes, that was intelligent input.) Don't you have video games waiting for you or a football game to watch? My God, it's like a total power trip with you guys because this is something you do not experience. I'm sorry you don't have a vagina. And my husband is supportive of whatever I do, he isn't going to tell me how to have a baby. He knows it's my body and my decision of how the hell I want to deliver the baby. No one said anyone was inferior to anyone else, that is a typical male thing to say. Where did you come up with that? Instead of assuming people on here are saying such things, maybe you should take the time to read and educate yourself. It's very clear how uneducated you are if you jump to these types of conclusions. In college, I'm sure you have never heard of this because you sound like you are lacking in this department, you learn how to make educated arguments and how to argue with facts. Just because a doctor you have heard of through a friend of a friend did an "incredible job" doesn't mean he or she is right for everyone. I'm glad people have had good experiences with their hospitals and doctors, good for you, that's fantastic. It doesn't have anything to do with me. Each person has a different experience with a doctor, especially women since we see them all the time. We are entitled to our opinions as mothers. Like I said, if I wanted a man's input on this, I would ask my husband or my doctor. I don't need to ask someone who sounds like he barely passed high school. I just don't get why people have to get online and attempt to sound like they can make educated responses. Obviously you are very, very bored, your xbox broke, or you are jobless.

Anyway! I would do the hospital thing, no intervention, but I've heard that the hospital here doesn't do VBAC or anything like that. So I figured I would just get all the info I can about home births and go from there. I don't do well in hospitals, they make me very tense and with a couple of bad experiences between myself and a friend, I'm looking into other options. I feel like I have no control over anything. I know people have these beliefs that they are so much safer than doing it at home, there aren't a large crowd of people in this town who are open minded. Pat told me she'll do vbac, though she will have to see my medical records to make sure she can do it for sure. I don't think there will be a problem, I believe I ended up with a c-section (low transverse cesarean, I will add) because the doctors decided that since my blood pressure was a little high, I should be induced.

Also...ladies, don't feed into these guys posting on here. I know it's very difficult, they are like a bad rash. They are obviously trolls and aren't getting the attention they need at home. Don't feed them!

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
+1 to Aaden's mom. Pat is Great, you won't be disappointed. Also, if you find you are not eligible for a home birth, I would again recommend Dr. Cook. He has displayed alot of interest in doing VBACs, I believe your only obstacle would be HRH policy. If you need anymore help/info please email me.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Haha Dr. Cook is my doctor. He was the one who kind of got me into considering vbac. He brought it up before he said anything about a c-section, I thought that was neat. He said I would be allowed to do it but he told me that HRH won't do them, so I'd have to go to Billings. I belong to a site where it's all moms, so they post a lot about at home births. I decided to look into it, as much as I like him, he wouldn't be able to deliver for me anyway. If he could do a home birth that would be awesome lol.

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4454) 9 years ago
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 9 years ago
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
Still, if you see Pat you should consider a Doc for Back-up. I saw Dr. Gallo and loved her. She faxed my prenatal redcords to Pat so I didn't have to go to Billings every month. If you saw Dr. Cook regularly atleast you would have a doc here in case you have to transfer....it's always good to have a back-up plan.
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
those are some beautiful chickens btw.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 9 years ago
Only one video of a chicken (female) other video was in answer to it, as it is a rooster (male)....
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Posted by John (+97) 9 years ago
Howdy, rarely do I ever reply to threads on here, but I'm pretty sure the term "chicken(s)" refers to the specie of animal and the terms rooster and hen refer the sex of said specie. Were "rooster" being the male and "hen" being female.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Well I haven't seen a midwife yet, I have to schedule a time to see Pat before I make any decisions right now. I have emailed her and that's it. I have only been to a doctor so far. I have to find out from my insurance if I'm covered before I can do any of this.
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Posted by Bridgier (+8985) 9 years ago
I don't know what everyone's getting so worked up about - I've pulled my share of recalcitrent calves in my day, it's no big deal..
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 9 years ago
John, altho I am glad you replied to a post on this web site, I must point out to you that the first "chicken" post was a joke about women discussing this subject as in "cluck cluck cluck" and making fun of it, so I posted the rooster one in answer to it...I know, in all seriousness, the word chicken applies to both sexes, but this was a joke, kiddo...Lighten up a tad...
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16662) 9 years ago
As Aaden's mom pointed out earlier in this thread, howdy, knowing definitions of key words is serious business and not to be made light of.

If all of us understood the definition of chicken, rooster, and hen, wouldn't the world be a better place to live?

I know, until Aaden's mom forced me to consult the Oxford English Dictionary, that I thought a midwife was some hazy area between lowwife (the kind you see shopping at WalMart) and highwife (the kind you see knocking back cosmopolitans at the country club). I stand corrected.

And, +1 to the Grim Reaper.
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Posted by cj sampsel (+484) 9 years ago
Amazing how much heat a simple question has generated. I've worked
in hospitals for 31 years. It's only in about the last ten years
midwifery has exploded. When I worked at NVH in Whitefish they
allowed midwives to belong to the hospital staff as well as some of the clinics. Even the OB-GYN had them on staff. You could opt for
a hospital or home birth with a midwife.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14724) 9 years ago
Gunnar has a point. Not to obfuscate the thread, but if you are Elmer Fudd, the midwife is to be avoided. She is the kind of woman that creates that certain kind of crisis for middle-aged men. Yes, I am talking about the "midwife crisis".

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
I don't really want to do the midwife thing at a hospital. The issue here is that I don't want to be in a hospital. Period. I want to do an at home birth or be at a birthing center. Like I said, nothing against the hospital. We all have our own reasons. This hospital won't let me do what I want to do, I would have to go to Billings. A midwife can come here to my home. I don't think vbacs are allowed at HRH. But yes, I am amazed how a simple question, meant for intelligent, knowledgeable responses, can blow up. I'm learning that people don't really have lives in a small town. They are either committing crimes or on mc.com.
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Posted by Jimmie (+54) 9 years ago
And btw its not near as painful as what they say!


The true test of whose box opens up like the Grand Canyon and a good warning to men to keep out unless they like a hotdog in a hallway.
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
Charming.

Here's some more charm from "Aaden's mom":

Aaden's mom wrote:
"My God, Miles City has some of the rudest damned people I've ever met. I just moved here and I somewhat regret it because it's not kid friendly, there is nothing here, people are rude and just plain stupid. Anyway. I doubt there is much to do in the summer here at all. There is no swimming pool, can't take your dogs to the parks...it really sucks.

http://milescity.com/foru...32/#207101
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Posted by Jimmie (+54) 9 years ago
Maybe go to Billings then and do what you want to do and then stay there. Sounds like everyone would be happier.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11447) 9 years ago
Ignoring the fact that Asden's mom hates Miles City, this is a very, very complex issue, far too complex to be solved in a thread on the internet.

For example, if HRH doesn't allow VBAC, they may have a very good reason besides they hate women. Maybe they know that if a VBAC goes wrong, it goes wrong on an epic scale and they do not have the resources to deal with it.

Some women are perfect candidates for home births. Some women should be monitored by machines that go ping constantly.

Some women prefer scheduled c-sections, which accounts for a large percentage of those births. Some women are very grateful for a c-section because the alternative was unpleasant.

Some doctors are thoughtful, caring and take women's concerns to heart. Some women are arrogant and mis-informed and think they know better because they read something somewhere and don't know what it took a doctor many years to learn.

It is an individual decision, based on many, many factors, and we in the First World should be grateful it can even exist because if ever there were a "First World Problem," how to have a safe delivery is it.

P.S. Had I reproduced, I would have gone for a hospital and as many painkillers as I could handle but that's just me.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Ah immaturity at its best!

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
And Jimmie, maybe I should and you can pay the huge bill that comes with it! What a kind person. Thank you so much, your input was full of all the answers I needed! Why should anyone who has experience or education on this matter even respond?

I honestly don't know why so many people, those without anything nice or helpful to say, posted on this. I asked about midwives. I didn't ask about how I should be grateful to have my organs played with. You didn't HAVE to read this or reply. It was your choice to become annoyed, humored, pissed or confused by what I asked. I know it takes an open mind to believe that there is nothing wrong with having a midwife. It sounds terrible to have a baby at home! Scandalous. It was a simple question and it doesn't matter what I "hate" or what I like, I don't think it's your place to tell me how I should feel. It sounds like several of you are miserable living here, so maybe you should move? This is seriously a dead end. I am hoping this thread will be deleted since it's obviously such a simple question people had a really hard time answering. It's easy to sit behind a computer screen and talk sh*t

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16662) 9 years ago
People in Miles City are so immature. Why don't you move to that last bastion of maturity, Glendive?
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Aw maybe I should. Thank you so much Gunnar. I will let you pay for my house and Jimmie can pay for my hospital bills. This is great.

Amorette, the question itself wasn't complex. It was a question I asked for people who KNEW if midwives or home births were legal in Montana. I said I wasn't from here, I haven't lived here very long, how would I know the laws? My doctor is new here as well. He wouldn't know how to answer. I figured the best way was to ask the simple question of whether or not it was allowed and if anyone knows how I can contact one. It wasn't for people to get on here and tell me what I should or shouldn't do. It's not much different than asking if there is a place other than Wal-Mart to get your oil changed. I wasn't making this into a "complex" issue. Everyone else has decided to make this into more than what it is. If I could delete this myself, I would have done it after I received the answers I needed.

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by Bridgier (+8985) 9 years ago
There is no swimming pool

Well, you have to admit, she's right about that. And the kids these days are much ruder everywhere than when I was a wee lad, ripped from my mother's womb by a pair of salad tongs.
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Posted by Grim Reaper (+76) 9 years ago
Jeff Snyder's wife aka (Aaeden's mom): I don't think asking the question is what got you all of the heat rounds. It was the idiotic answer to the male that was trying to help answer your question. But keep wondering "why me".
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Aaeden's mom? The spelling is right in front of you and yet you still messed it up.

And no, I don't wonder "why me?" I just wonder why you are still posting. I know how people can be on these threads, but I didn't expect people to get on here and turn this into high school drama.

[This message has been edited by Aaden's Mom (12/29/2011)]
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Posted by cj sampsel (+484) 9 years ago
Aaden's mom. By now I hope you realize most of these people are
just baiting you due to the way you react. Kind of like torturing
a sibling or to be more graphic and "montanan" the wolf pack has
smelled blood.
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Posted by Aaden's Mom (+47) 9 years ago
Yes CJ, I do realize it. But they are also probably twice my age. I think I'm done with MC.com...Thank you for not acting like a prepubescent
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Posted by Mariah Kosel (+90) 9 years ago
I had two midwife births, one with Pat and one with the girls at First Breath Midwifery. They were extremely competent and well trained. Folks don't realize how much school and hands on training it takes to become a midwife. Pat by the way is a certified nurse midwife and the girls at First Breath are her graduated apprentices. Aaden's Mom, if you want to call me and have a good chat about my decision to have a midwife and how it went and the laws and such in the state of Montana, please call!

Mariah
406 853 4348
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Posted by Jeena Christopherson (+9) 9 years ago
I finally can't possibly sit here and say nothing about the comments Kmama made about Dr. Rauh- you show ignorance by talking about things you know nothing about. Number one: Dr. Rauh doesn't golf. Number two: He delivered over 12,000 babies during his career. Number three: Women chose to be induced. He would inform them when he was going to be out of town, and they could either be induced if they were within days of delivering or they could wait and be delivered by the locum. He NEVER left town when somebody was close to their due date without checking with them. Before he went to work for Billings Clinic, he very rarely left the city limits for 20 years. Number four: Pat, Katrina, and massage doulas are not board certified and do not have the hundreds of hours of training to be able to handle every labor progression that possibly may come along. Number five: There is not one, not two, but six physicians that are doing what Dr. Rauh did. So I wonder why that is? Maybe they are golfers?? Next time I would advise you to keep your unsubstantiated comments to yourself, and just talk about things you actually know about like how to get though MCC's Math for Meds 101.
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Posted by jw (+127) 9 years ago
+1. I enjoyed reading the above post. Thank you.
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Posted by luvlife (+290) 9 years ago
Thank you, Jeena!
I read this post, too and found myself quite upset with Kmama speaking about "Randall" (as she put it in one post) the way she did.
Dr. Rauh should not of even been spoke about in this post and the false statements made are just WRONG~!
Go ahead and talk about what you know, Kmama...BUT, DO NOT speak about "untrue" lie's about a very wonderful, caring man.
YOU are far to young to know anything of this man or speak of him in the way you did.
I stayed out of this thread...as I know nothing about home births...BUT, personally know Dr Rauh (as many of us women do) and were nothing but very PLEASED with his professionalism, care and as far as him being "JUSTIFIED" in being "let go"!!! Many would love to go head to head with you on that one. Stick to your facts...you may think you know it all because you are studying to be a nurse...you should of left the whole Dr Rauh thing alone...and let him speak for himself....and NOT what you have heard!!! BTW...when did you ever work with him???
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Posted by luvlife (+290) 9 years ago
One more thing for Kmama...I could get on here and say things I have heard about you, BUT, that would NOT be nice and I don't know if I would be saying FALSE statements as I do not know forsure...just have heard from some of my good friends that know you....Get the picture???
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Posted by DKR (+4) 9 years ago
I know nothing about midwives but think women should have choices. However, Dr Rauh delivered my children, one on a Saturday--planned because of a special date--and I thought and still think he was the most professional and thoughtful doctor I've ever known. I was also given a choice to do VBAC. His office always called to let you know if he was delayed so you weren't waiting for hours to see him if he was called to a delivery; he was the first doctor that ever saw you the first time in his office fully clothed rather than in a paper gown, and the vast majority of the women who where his patients loved the care he gave them. I think it's fair to say that given tbe number of years he practiced, many as the only OBGYN, that there are bound to be some that were not satisfied.
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Posted by Janel Larson (+131) 9 years ago
THANK YOU JEENA!

[This message has been edited by Janel Larson (1/2/2012)]
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Posted by Kmama (+110) 9 years ago
luvlife, I attended several births (doing massage for my clients) where he was delivering. I was also his patient for several years. I may be young but my experiences of him were all pretty negative. I'm sure he has many satisfied customers as he practiced in MC for quite some time, but I'm not one of them. As for Midwives not being "board" certified, both Laymidwives and Nurse midwives go through extensive academic training and hands-on practice before taking a "board exam" to be licensed to practice. The requirements are different for CNMs and LDMs but Lay midwives are required to attend atleast 100 births and countless prenatal visits before sitting for their board exam. A CNM is a nurse with a doctorate degree(as of 2012), basically a nurse practitioner with additional training in midwifery and maternal child health. Midwives are not simply voodoo priestesses who jump in start catching babies. They are trained professionals, with hundreds of hours of training.
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Posted by Mariah Kosel (+90) 9 years ago
"Pat is a Registered Nurse and Licensed Midwife. She also maintains the national credential of Certified Professional Midwife. Delivering babies for 29 years, she has practiced in Indiana, Wyoming and Montana. She is the mother of four grown children, who have blessed her with five grandchildren.

Pat is a member of the Midwives' Alliance of North America, the Montana Midwives' Association, and the Wyoming Midwives' Association.

Appointed by the Governor of Wyoming in 2010, she sits as Chairperson for the Wyoming State Board of Midwifery.

Pat is the founder of the Mountain Midwives' Coalition, a long-standing cooperative group of midwives from MT, WY, SD, ND, and ID."

-From Mountain Midwives website about Pat Schwaiger.

People people! Please do your research before you type!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11447) 9 years ago
So, Kmama should have said, "I don't care for Dr. Rauh's bedside manner," rather than accusing him of actions he did not take. No need to make up lies, just tell the truth. It makes any discussion that much clearer.

Again, no horse in this race. No kids. Never wanted them. Would want every machine and drug known to man at hand had I ever reproduced. Just don't see why this whole discussion has to be reduced to flinging unfounded accusations.

Tossing poo rarely makes things better. Unless you are a chimpanzee.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16662) 9 years ago
Just don't see why this whole discussion has to be reduced to flinging unfounded accusations.


Amorette, I am concerned about possible early onset of Alzheiemer's. Do you not recall any other "Dr. Rauh" threads on milescity.com???
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Posted by David Schott (+16502) 9 years ago
Miles City Star
Tuesday, October 11, 2011
Page 4

[f] Stardust
50 YEARS AGO (1961)
[/f] Childbirth today is so per-
fected that it offers future
mothers the opportunity for
a safe, memorable, vacation,
if a physician is consulted at
the beginning of the pregnan-
cy and his advice followed
exactly.
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Posted by Jeena Christopherson (+9) 9 years ago
So I did some further research and found the following information at the Montana licensing- so not all midwives maybe as experienced as Pat. There are 19 midwives licensed in the state of Montana.
FOR DIRECT-ENTRY MIDWIFE EXAMINATION CANDIDATES:
1) Application fee of $300 (non-refundable) made payable to the Board of Alternative Health Care.
2) Certified copy of transcript verifying graduation sent directly to the Board office from the high school or GED verifying agency.
3) Documentation of good moral character consisting of three letters of reference, at least one of which must be from a licensed direct-entry midwife.
4) A copy of a current CPR card indicating that the applicant is certified by the American Heart Association or the American Red Cross to perform adult and infant cardiopulmonary resuscitation.
5) A copy of a current neonatal card indicating that the applicant is certified by the American Heart Association or the American Academy of Pediatrics to perform neonatal resuscitation.
6) Completed "Direct-entry Midwife Education Standards Form"
7) Completed "40 Birth Observations Form" with identifying information redacted.
8) Completed forms documenting provision of 100 prenatal examinations with identifying information redacted. 9) Completed "Documentation of Birth Experience Form" which certifies that the applicant has served as the primary birth attendant at 25 births, 15 of which include continuous care - 10 of the continuous care births must have been under personal supervision. All identifying information must be removed.
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Posted by Julie H (+192) 9 years ago
Thank you Jeena. I was wondering when someone was going to take on the Dr. Rauh comment.
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Posted by ocne (+482) 9 years ago
Not having children, I know little about this subject other than what I've heard from friends who are mothers, and my own mother who also happens to be an RN of over 30 yrs. Hence, I won't even go there.

I try not to say much on here. However, I feel compelled to jump in. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Some people think Dr. Rauh is a saint, others don't. Some people are for midwives and home births, others feel it isn't for them. My mom happened to drive to MC from 2 hrs away when Dr. Rauh was here for her women's health other than OB and she loved him.
If Kmama didn't care for Dr. Rauh, that's her opinion. Those of you who love him, good for you as well. I don't think its necessary to call out and personally attack someone who simply tried to provide the person who originally posted this topic with what she felt was some useful information. Some of you have also posted what you feel is useful information. I didn't see Kmama coming after you until you slung the mud at her first.

So how about everybody just agree to disagree without calling people out, slinging insults at each other, name-calling and everything else for once, and get back to the original topic here. I don't think all this is what Aaden's Mom originally asked for...

Aaden's Mom--good luck to you! I hope you are successful in finding what you are looking for!
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