Pregnant ladies in particular, this is interesting
Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Wow I just came across this video in my own research on the subject because I will soon be making this decision and thought others would find this video interesting and informative as well. I know what my decision will be!

http://www.nocirc.org/
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
Um, I think that I'd try to find more unbiased, scientific information before making this decision.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17321) 9 years ago
At milescity.com, we prefer the term "pregnate ladies".
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Posted by Frank Hardy (+1607) 9 years ago
And at milescityhome.com we's perticuler to jes calling them "sis" or "cuz".

FH
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
I dont understand how you can discredit this info wendy when I seriously doubt you've done any research at all.
This video is just one of the many things I've found while doing my own research and thought I'd share a video instead of an article because most people dont want to take the time to read although I certainly believe such a life and body altering surgery deserves a great deal of research.
The video is hosted by a doctor, quotes the American academy of pediatrics, interviews a nurse who worked on OB and a pediatrician, and states facts, how is that biased and unscientific?
My doctor also told me there are no benefits.
Here are more scientific articles that have impacted my decision besides the things on that site

http://www.mothersagainst...leiss.html -very "scientific", also written by a doctor, and has a huge list of resources at the bottom.
http://www.mothersagainst.../botch.htm
http://intactamerica.org/learnmore
http://intactamerica.org/...s/decision
Hope someone finds this useful and informative!
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Posted by RB (+436) 9 years ago
I really like this article, Its 4 parts, but its pretty short http://www.psychologytoda...ly-believe
Thanks for the video and other articles
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
www.motherswhodonthavetobetheweirdoingymclass.com
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
If the info is coming from established medical communities and researchers, then fine. But when the website is named NoCirc or Intactamerica or mothersagainstcirc then I think it is reasonable to be suspect about their "facts".


What about these?

http://www.circinfo.net/s...tions.html
http://www.webmd.com/sexu...rcumcision
http://jama.ama-assn.org/.../1479.full

See the difference?

[This message has been edited by Wendy Wilson (12/15/2011)]
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Would you remove a girls mammary glands to prevent breast cancer? Why remove part of a penis to "lower" the risk of STDs? That sounds like encouraging unprotected sex to me. I think there are plenty of circumcised men out there with STDs....
Just because a site is titled something like that does not mean that their info is not credible. Their credentials, their sources, that is what counts.
This was not the point of my post. The point was to help anyone else out there who might be struggling with this decision. Did you even read any of the articles posted? That psychology today article was great, thank you, and not from a site that you might think is biased. Maybe they named their site in such a way because they have done a lot of research and have come to a conclusion, and that conclusion is that they strongly oppose it.

And, the first article you posted actually states that it is biased towards circed men because of the survey responses. The second states that the AAP does not recommend circ. The third states that the studies carried out in Africa that showed a decrease in STDs may not be applicable to the USA. Take the info as you like, but I think people ought to be informed about this, and look at both sides. I have looked at both, believe me, as this is a very important decision. Please, just let those who might actually find this helpful read and watch it, and lets stop the back and forth. Its really ruining my post which was meant to be helpful!
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Posted by David Schott (+17053) 9 years ago
Maybe it all just comes down to a matter of aesthetics?

Kelly, do you have any input on this matter?

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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
Homesweet:
Your post and replies to it are referred to as a thread..the reason why is that the subject of the original post will weave back and forth giving all sides, even funny ones...thus the "thread" name like sewing back and forth with a needle...Getting mad at someones response to your post because they have a different viewpoint or don't like your sources as well as others is a giant waste of time and if you really want to keep your post "pure" and just no opinion other than your own, then don't use this medium as a way to "spread the word"...You seem to want to make it the Gospel according to you and you only...that's not how it works...
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
Would you remove a girls mammary glands to prevent breast cancer? Why remove part of a penis to "lower" the risk of STDs? That sounds like encouraging unprotected sex to me. I think there are plenty of circumcised men out there with STDs....


Despite the above quote I'm going to attempt to explain my position without resorting to Dick and Jane language.

The point of my post was that the website you listed, while perhaps using many sources that are valid, is nonetheless presenting the material through a biased lens. It's like asking a seafood company if it's safe for a pregnant woman to eat fish 5 days a week.

Listen, I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about circumcision beyond that it's a personal decision for the parents to make. Just make a reasoned decision, not one based on emotion.

[This message has been edited by Wendy Wilson (12/15/2011)]
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Now if some enterprising doctor would just come up with a surgical procedure to restore me back to original condition I'd be able to decide which is best. Until then I'm gonna have to concentrate on more important matters...
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Posted by Bridgier (+9194) 9 years ago
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Here's an article with many sources about stds and circ
http://www.icgi.org/Downl...ummary.pdf
Also, Montana Medicaid does not pay for circs because it calls it "unnecessary and non-therapeutic"
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Like I said, you don't have to go to gym class.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9194) 9 years ago
It's my understanding that most kids don't shower in PE class anymore anyways.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Then I'll go with response two:

Gee, I wish my penis were more sensitive so I could reach climax faster. You always hear women complaining...

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (12/16/2011)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Buck... I don't think a foreskin would add to your sensitivity.
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago

Well, I guess you were right about the term "thread".
Also, had you read the articles posted, you would see that the circumcision rate is about 50%, so a boy born now would not be the only one with a foreskin in PE class when he reaches that age.

Also, in response to the "its a matter of personal choice", I would like to know if you honestly think a parent should have the right to choose what their childs private parts look like, or if that should be the choice of the boy himself? We have established that there is little to no benefit of circ, and there are risks including psychological ones. So, do the benefits outweigh the risks? I think not. "Well, we think it might help cut down on STD transmission, but the studies are flawed, so we're not sure" is not a good reason, in my opinion, to perform a very painful procedure on a helpless newborn without their consent. An open wound that is in constant contact with urine and feces is likely to get infected, and any woman who has torn or gotten an episiotomy during childbirth knows how painful it is to pee onto an open wound.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11757) 9 years ago
Why do the words "penis envy" keep coming to mind?

Anyway, it started to be done among the non-religious in the nineteenth century because Victorians thought it would be easier to keep those bits clean and if you didn't have to scrub them so often, maybe little boys wouldn't learn to masturbate.

Yeah, right.

However, very few little boys who were circumcised developed those scary infections you worry about. If they had, the practice would have faded out as a little boys died of infections in the pre-antibiotic era. They didn't die, nor did they stop masturbating.

The reasoning behind it is weak today but I really think it is a personal decision and obsessing about other people's children's privates is a bit. . .odd. As is your inability to spell the word you are so obsessed with. Learn to either spell circumcision or learn to use your spell check. Circ just makes me think you are obsessed with circuses.

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Posted by RB (+436) 9 years ago
If there is anyone on here actually trying to learn something, I wanted to share this article http://www.healthpolicyso...-colorado/
It is neutral on the subject and its mostly about Medicaid not covering circumcision in 18 states(yes including Montana!).
It states that "states where circumcision is not covered, rates dropped 24 percent below rates in states where Medicaid covers the cost." So, less boys are probably circumcised in Montana than we realize.

I really like the following quote on this matter "We must assume this is as nature intended, not a mistake of evolution"
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Medicaid is anti-Semitic.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (12/17/2011)]
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Just curious if anyone here has actually read or watched anything posted?
I myself have wondered why every man ever born would be born with something he's better off without. I dont think thats the case
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
Nowhere in all that reading, should I say all those pictures did I see any scientific evidence about whether circumcision affects a teen's ability to make good decisions. Assuming that what they always told me was true- which head my brains were in. LOL this is hilarious. I wonder how far this thread can go.
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
Some kids are born addicted to drugs or with aids, thanks to their parents, so you cannot say what you are born with, you always need...like my appendix...almost killed me....
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14950) 9 years ago
Just a guess... but I am thinkn' that homesweet's last name isn't Bobbitt.
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
YIKES....Lorena Bobbit left a very "cutting" history in her wake...OUCH!!

[This message has been edited by howdy (12/17/2011)]
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
"like my appendix...almost killed me"
Under normal circumstances a person is born with what they need. Everything serves a purpose.
But, in the case of appendices, well heck we should be removing those from newborns too, obviously once in awhile as an adult a person will have a problem with it, so might as well eliminate the risk from the start!
I had a friend in middle school who had to get her tonsils removed because she got lots of infections, so lets remove those too.
And my uncle almost died from his gall bladder, so we should get rid of those too.
By doing all these surgeries we would eliminate some problems that may or may not occur later in a childs life. (completely ignoring the fact, of course, that there will be complications and some newborns will die from the procedures) Makes just as much sense to me as circumcision!
Here's an article on male newborn death rates http://www.examiner.com/family-health-in-washington-dc/new-study-estimates-neonatal-circumcision-death-rate-higher-than-suffocation-and-auto-accidents
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
Kelly, do you have any input on this matter?


Since you asked...

I was cut as an infant. I read as I got older. Stretched the skin over a number of years, and now have some semblance of uncut. If I were to have a male child, I definitely would not have this unnecessary surgery done.

As to sex, the difference is like wearing a condom vs. not wearing a condom.

Are you glad you asked?
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
Homesweet, you are a tad bit obsessive and apparently completely devoid of a sense of humor...My deepest sympathies...
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Let's make a deal - no more abortions and no more circumcisions. I'll make decisions for women, you make them for men.
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Of course I was joking about removing those parts from babies, just sayin it makes as much sense from a medical perspective as circumcision. And I do not agree with abortion either. If you'd like to start a separate thread on that subject I would gladly support your viewpoint.
A newborn boy is unable to make the circumcision decision for himself, its his parents imposing their will upon a helpless baby who's unable to stand up for himself(much like abortion). A parent is supposed to be their childs advocate and protector but in this case they are allowing pure harm to come to their child because there is no benefit.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 9 years ago
Sounds to me like someone with a vagina trying to make decisions for a penis.

And the benefit is eternity in paradise and an earthly experience that doesn't include being a procreateing weirdo, but hey, you're the big expert.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (12/19/2011)]
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Posted by Kroberts (+35) 9 years ago
So, I guess I shouldn't have pierced my daughters ears when she was a baby, in case she didn't want them done, right? Am I following the logic correctly?

And, for the record, on the circumcision issue, I think it is for each family to decide.

[This message has been edited by Kroberts (12/19/2011)]
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Posted by jessiker (+291) 9 years ago
http://circumcisionnews.b...ision.html

Your "numbers" on auto accidents and such is seriously flawed. This is just one of MANY articles pointing that out. If you want to leave your son's foreskin intact, be my guest, but seriously - quit worrying about everyone else's son's penis.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9194) 9 years ago
I guess I shouldn't have pierced my daughters ears when she was a baby, in case she didn't want them done, right?


Why does your baby daughter need pierced ears?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
So, I guess I shouldn't have pierced my daughters ears when she was a baby, in case she didn't want them done, right? Am I following the logic correctly?


Yup, unless you plan to be on Toddlers and Tiaras.
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Posted by homesweet (+71) 9 years ago
Ear peircing is not extremely painful, life altering or permanent. I wouldnt do it, but whatever.
"Sounds to me like someone with a vagina trying to make decisions for a penis" Uh, and deciding TO circumcise is not doing the same thing??? And I was not talking about religion, if its your religious belief that you must circumcise, well, so be it, but if your just doing it blindly then I believe that you should first research it.
So men with foreskins are wierdo's? I am sure you have friends and family with them and dont even know it. And, considering the majority of men worldwide are intact, well, you are the minority!
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Posted by Grim Reaper (+71) 9 years ago
Ant-eaters go hand in hand with the undercrust of society. So by all means let your kid get laughed at in gym class to save a few hundred dollars. We all know that is why you don't want to do it, because your welfare victim medicaire won't cover it.
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3677) 9 years ago
I am proud to have a helmet and have never cared for turtle necks.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17321) 9 years ago
One word: dickcheese.
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Posted by Mathew Schmitz (+284) 9 years ago
I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if I just sat back with my mouth shut, this thread would get exactly here. You crack me up Gunnar.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9194) 9 years ago
Ahh yes... I still fondly remember the time we almost got a female co-worker to ask the pizza vendor if he had any with "Fumunda" cheese. Good times, good times.

Also too... grim reaper can eat a bag of salted foreskins.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+763) 9 years ago
The proper term is "smegma", Gunnar.
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Posted by Kelly (+2706) 9 years ago
What kind of wine goes well with dick cheese?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
Boys are gross.
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Posted by mule train (+1055) 9 years ago
sounds like homesweet like to play skin flute...maybe with a little gorgonzola on the side???
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Posted by K.Duffy (+1807) 9 years ago
What Wendy said Hopefully someone starts a fart thread..to get them sidetracked.
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Posted by urcrackinmeup (+134) 9 years ago
I too kept reading this thread in hopes of a downward spiral... and thank goodness... that's right where it went
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Posted by Kmama (+105) 9 years ago
I agree with Wendy
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Posted by Kmama (+105) 9 years ago
I am proud to have a helmet and have never cared for turtle necks.

but Tucker, your Jewish? didn't you have to wait till you were 13 or somethin to snip it?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 9 years ago
Score one for cultural ignorance.
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Posted by David Schott (+17053) 9 years ago
"Little" Tucker's bris was not performed at his bar mitzvah?

It could certainly put a damper on the festivities if the bris WAS performed at the bar mitzvah.

I tried to find the "South Park" epsiode for Ike's bris but instead found the dreidel song. Don't watch that one in front of the kids.

[This message has been edited by David Schott (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by Kmama (+105) 9 years ago
That was a joke Wendy.
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
8 days old is usually the age for Jewish boys...
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Posted by Kmama (+105) 9 years ago
What if you convert to Judaism?
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
Consult your local rabbi...
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Posted by Kmama (+105) 9 years ago
lol!
Where exactly do I find a Rabbi in Miles City?

[This message has been edited by Kmama (12/28/2011)]
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Posted by howdy (+4943) 9 years ago
http://www.mavensearch.co...gues/C3323

Nearest one.....Billings...
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