Posted by bigsky (+84) 11 years ago
Is it right that farmers and ranchers that get crp payments have the right to tell a tax paying citizen that they can not hunt their property?
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supporter
Posted by Mrs. M (+712) 11 years ago
CRP payments are for retiring fragile land to native grasses and removing the land from crop production. There are many federal guidelines that need to be met to ensure the native grasses will succeed which in itself is a costly process.
Hunting is a state licensed endeavor. CRP is federal.
Why would the federal government want hunters driving all over the fragile grasses? Think of a ranch as a huge back yard. Would you want just anyone to have a access to your back yard to have an event, possibly destroying somethings and leaving cans and trash for you to clean up?
Give the ranchers a break. Ask ahead, and that does not mean at ten o'clock the night before or in the wee hours of the morning before you take off. Stay on established roads and walk!! Everytime you drive on pasture you compact the soil and hurt the grasses. That's if you don't leave ruts.
If you get on a place, send a thank you or call to tell them you appreciated it. Maybe buy a little gift certificate. Last but not least, make sure your companions do not think they have the right to go on the land without you. They go with someone else, who next time goes with another friend and you get an ever increasing number of people hunting on the one permission.
Just a few thoughts from a rancher's widow.











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supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15369) 11 years ago
Is it right that farmers and ranchers that get crp payments have the right to tell a tax paying citizen that they can not hunt their property?


Is it right of you to tell perfect strangers who are receiving an unemployment check they cannot use your bathroom There's your answer.
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supporter
Posted by John Morford (+344) 11 years ago
CRP is/was all on privately owned land so, yes, the land owner can certainly restrict anyone from it - it is his land afterall. The only instance where it might be otherwise is if the landowner is/was getting an additional payment from a public access incentive that was enacted about 3 years ago to allow more public access.

You might equate it somewhat to if someone was getting federal funded foodstamps - does that give the public the right to go eat at their house anytime they want.



And............. I see Richard beat me to it......
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Posted by Stewart (+151) 11 years ago
If you really want to go hunting on private land you need to develope a relationship with the farmer/rancher before hunting season.

Too many times strangers with or without permission go out and commit these errors that leave ranchers cold to allowing people to hunt...ever.

1. Hunt without permission. It scares us and our families. Think of your wife and kids home alone to discover some stranger wandering through their backyard with guns and knives. (Same goes with showing up unannounced at the door)

2. Don't understand where the borders are and go on a neighbor's land. Then the neighbors get very angry with us. Makes life tense all year long of we get a bad hunter that meanders onto neighboring property.That's why close friends that visit us when it's not hunting season are more likely to get permission, they've helped out on the ranch and know where the borders are so we know they won't get us in trouble from the neighbors.

3. Steal from our old homesteads. Just because it's on the prairie doesn't mean it's fair game. Those are our ancestors' homes and we get very sad when things show up missing.

4. Shoot livestock (accidentally or, on the rare occasion, on purpose).

We live and work on that land all year long. It's very frustrating when people demand that they have the right to invade our space when they've done nothing for us. You are asking a MAJOR favor to be turned loose in our place of business with dangerous weapons that could accidently hurt a member of our family out working or our favorite horse or the cows that put food on our table. Treat it as the huge favor it is and develop the kind of relationship that you would want if someone was asking you a favor.

Demanding to hunt will get you nowhere and likely banned from all area ranches. Good luck finding a place to hunt. If you do it right, it is possible to gain access.
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supporter
Posted by cubby (+2657) 11 years ago
Bigsky you summed it up yourself by saying (THEIR PROPERTY)
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Posted by Kelly (+2816) 11 years ago
I suggest bigsky hunt out at Fort Keogh, since his tax dollars help pay for it.
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supporter
Posted by Levi Forman (+3714) 11 years ago
Ranchers have a lot to lose and not much to gain by letting strangers on their land to hunt. We have always allowed hunting but I can definitely see why people wouldn't. It's a major hassle in the best circumstances and as others have mentioned, there are a few bad hunters that can really be a serious problem for many reasons. I know of one person that quit block management because a hunter ran over his dog right in the driveway.

Bigsky- How much of your private property do you provide free to the public for recreational purposes?
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supporter
Posted by Bridgier (+9469) 11 years ago
I don't see why any of you are wasting your time on this - his suggestion is ludicrous on it's face, and if you think he offered it in good faith, then I've got heartwarming tale of zombies in Miles City to tell you.
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admin
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+10021) 11 years ago
bigsky < Tebow

There. We've come full circle.
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Posted by ocne (+479) 11 years ago
Well said, Stewart!!!
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Posted by Cheryl Pieters (+476) 11 years ago
Two different times last fall hunters drove through and left gates open on my friend's ranch. Once the cattle ended up in their wet, muddy yard stomping holes in the driveway, lawn and the flowerbeds and destroying the Pumpkin and Squash Garden and the second time a neighbor called to say they were on his land at nightfall just as the snow was starting to get heavy in a Fall Storm. Nothing like having to go out and get the cattle in a blowing snowstorm at dinnertime just because someone you allowed on your property and trusted was too lazy / inconsiderate / clueless to shut a gate. It is probably the guys like that who make most Ranchers reconsider who they let on their property.
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Posted by bigsky (+84) 11 years ago
cool....thanks..

so what about wild life damage compensation?

should a farmer rancher recieve this compensation if he or she does not allow public hunting?

and for the record my land is not posted or fenced

[This message has been edited by bigsky (11/2/2011)]
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supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15369) 11 years ago
so what about wild life damage compensation?


On CRP land?
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Posted by bigsky (+84) 11 years ago
well ive thought long and hard about this..and here it is

1. people do not own property, they lease it from the state. dont pay your taxes and see how long you own it.

2. most farms and ranches are corporations.

3. wild life belongs to the state

4. people that outfit or guide their ranches get wild life damage payments from the citizens that they dont allow to hunt.

5. crp is nothing more than corporate welfare.

so where does corporate welfare start and end?

i love block management, dont use it much...but it is good, the people that are already paying get a pay out in the end...but to close the states property down and let an outfitter come in and sell the states wild life then collect crp payments and wild life damage payments from those that you wont allow to hunt or fish...that is wrong. that just does not make sense to me and is a prime example of corporate welfare at its best.
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supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+15369) 11 years ago
4. people that outfit or guide their ranches get wild life damage payments from the citizens that they dont allow to hunt.


Not sure what you are talking about here. A rancher might get a payment if a large herd of elk destroys his alfalfa field, but I think such payments are pretty rare. Perhaps you could sight specific examples?

5. crp is nothing more than corporate welfare.


Bullcrap.... CRP is an investment by the US citizenry in clean air and clean water. CRP is usually land that is highly susceptible to water and wind erosion. It is land that should have never been broken up in the first place. By revegetating these land parcels the soil is better protected from water erosion which the movement of soil particles into streams and rivers. The result is a cleaner water environment for fish and for cities that depend on our river system for drinking water.

CRP vegetation also helps protect against aeolian movement and deposition of soil in the air. There are all sorts of disease that occur from the inhalation of dust; silicosis to name one. Other habitats and the wildlife and plant species that exist there are spared from degradation or worse.

CRP and other soil conservation programs are inexpensive and have a huge ROI in what and how they have bettered society. They are the reason that today each farmer or rancher can feed 200+ people. If you'd like to independently verify what I am telling you, go read some of RI Thockmorton's ( father of modern day soil conservation) work and what he was able to determine living through the dust bowl days.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (11/6/2011)]
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Posted by tax payer (+346) 11 years ago
I don't think you have a leg to stand on with above thinking Bigsky.
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Posted by bigsky (+84) 11 years ago
yeah,,,not really sure i believe it myself...just needed to argue it out to get some other perspectives...still not sure how i feel about it though.
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