on todays primary in Miles City??

Anybody?

Joe 405 Butch 682 John Uden 255 Mark 57 Chuck 55

Very sad that this is decided by +/- 15% of the people. Only 1199 votes cast. Also scary that Butch got 56% of the vote.

So based on the numbers, Butch got 46.9% of the votes.

Richard, I think you forgot to add in Uden.

[This message has been edited by K. D. (9/14/2011)]

You are right. I fat-fingered the calculator somehow. There was 1454 voters. Butch got 46%.

OMG, I cannot believe that Miles City voters are that uninformed or that noncaring about their city...oh well, "beware of what you wish for, you might get it..."

Or perhaps they actually DO CARE and that is why they would go with someone who is interested in keeping up the city versus making sure that all the city people get their bonuses!

I hear bonuses are a lot cheaper then settlements.

Time to consider a name change. I like the ring of Bumprocreate, Montucky.

Or perhaps they actually DO CARE and that is why they would go with someone who is interested in keeping up the city versus making sure that all the city people get their bonuses!

Sarah, can you give us an example of what you speak? I'd like to verify that.

I wouldn't get my panties all in a wad over this....its well known that most of the people who vote in primaries and off-election years are angry retired curmudgeons who watch FOX News all day (how else can you explain the TeaTards coming to power?) I would expect a better turnout at the actual election.

Old people are the ones who are really screwing up this country. That, and young people's apathy.

I happen to be a younger voter and was turned away because of where I live. I guess I'm not in city limits at Southgate. And I would have voted for Butch Grenz and I'm proud to say so.

"Old people" were once "young people". Can't wait for you to get old, Gunnar. It should be very interesting.

as an older voter, I would have voted for Joe...LOL..(if I lived in the city)

Southgate IS in the city limits. Is same day registration still legal in Montana? If not, you may have to be registered in advance to vote. Check at the court house before the next election.

I voted. I would gouge my eyes out with a spork before I watch Fox News so there goes that theory.

A name change? How about Crazytown, Montana? This is what happens when uninformed voters go to the polls and vote for a name they have heard before. Of course, they don't remember the context - lawsuits, expensive settlements, poor governing skills (to say the least.) But they have heard the name...

I grew up in Miles City and knew Mr. Grenz when he was a kid. He was an arrogant bully then and having observed him since, there has been little change. I recall a Mayor's Forum that was held in Bozeman with a reception at the Museum of the Rockies. At the reception, Grenz bellied up to the very nice food layout and proceeded to lay waste to it. He did very little to interact with his fellow officials - just stuffed himself and left. Some of us discussed it the next day and concluded he had no manners and few interpersonal skills.

If that is what the people of Miles City want, I can only conclude that my beloved home town has fallen on hard times indeed. To step over an insightful, visionary and solid candidate like Joe Whalen in preference to a slug like Grenz indicates that primary voters don't give a damn about good government. Color me disgusted!

I happen to be a younger voter and was turned away because of where I live. I guess I'm not in city limits at Southgate. And I would have voted for Butch Grenz and I'm proud to say so.

Okay, you're the second person this week to which I have asked this question. WHY? I don't understand the reasoning.

looking at the official print out here at the Star, we noticed 146 people voted but not for a mayoral candidate, the only race were something was determined. They went checked the same boxes they will see in November but not one in the only set that will change.

If Butch Grenz were cut he would bleed Miles City. This is his town and his life.
Personal attacks are an unattractive approach in sizing up one's character.
There is always 3 sides to a story...His side - Your side - and the Truth.

If Butch Grenz were cut he would bleed Miles City.

Does bleeding Miles City also mean you repeatedly harass your employees? If so, perhaps ex-pats really are the smart ones.

BTW, he really does bleed Miles City, quite literally, and quite dry.

CRK - if your statement is intended as a compliment toward Butch Grenz, you're mistaken. If you cut Butch Grenz, he would bleed grease.

But if you mean to say that if you cut him and he'll in turn bleed Miles City (as payback), then you may be dead on. Bullies do that.

Isn't irony fun?

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't he already have his shot at being mayor? And feel free to correct me further, but didn't he do a piss-poor job at it?

did Grenz serve out his entire term or resign under pressure after his many harassment charges...Bullies do harass quite well usually...he is no exception...


**************************************************************


Police chief alleges discrimination by former mayor
on Oct. 13
By the Associated Press missoulian.com | Posted: Friday, October 13, 2006 12:00 am | Loading.

MILES CITY - A man who resigned as mayor after state investigators found him guilty of discrimination against a female city building inspector is accused anew, this time by the woman who is the Miles City police chief.

A lawsuit filed in federal court by Chief Lissa Power names Chris "Butch" Grenz, who resigned in April after the state Human Rights Bureau ruled against him in a discrimination complaint. Grenz was major of Miles City for about 15 months.

Power alleges gender discrimination by Grenz. He made false and malicious statements about her, statements that included allegations of an improper relationship with one or more of her subordinates, and described her with an expletive, according to the lawsuit.

Grenz declined to comment Friday.

"I'm looking forward to my day in court," he said.

Mayor Joe Whalen declined to comment on behalf of the city, which was also named as a defendant for allegedly failing to address Grenz's conduct.

It says Grenz interfered with Power's performance of her duties. He breached the chain of command, got involved in investigations, presented himself as an acting police chief, threatened Power with dismissal and denied her proper compensation, according to the suit.

Power, chief for several years, is seeking damages from Grenz and the city, in sums to be determined by a jury.

Grenz's resignation in April came after the Human Rights Bureau found he discriminated against city building inspector Joy Fleming and caused a hostile work environment. Fleming said Grenz told the city engineer not to give her a job as building inspector because male construction contractors in the area would not listen to her.

She also accused Grenz of making derogatory references about women, and of telling vulgar and racist jokes.

Earlier the city paid a $12,000 settlement to former fire chief Brent Christopherson, who had filed a complaint accusing Grenz of creating a hostile work environment.

At Grenz's resignation, he denied calling Christopherson names and said he had been concerned for Fleming's personal safety. Grenz apologized "for any misunderstandings."

Anyone that would vote for that man is nuts IMO

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/14/2011)]

I prefer to think of them as stupid. Crazy is a legitimate excuse.

I agree with Buck. The average Miles City voter is stupid, not crazy.

Brewmaster wrote:

I agree with Buck. The average Miles City voter is stupid, not crazy.

He means you, Rickenhawk.

I'll give Rick this: he's pretty civic minded. I'm pretty sure he's not going to vote for Butch.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Yeah.

Rickenhawk is a big MCFD defender, and, as I recall, Mr. Grenz was opposed to maintaining a full-time fire department. One of the rare issues where Mr. Grenz was right.

The MCFD did a great job saving downtown during the last big fire. Oh wait.

CRK, my post was not intended as a personal "attack," simply a personal observation that I am sure others have made as well. Mr. Grenz is temperamentally ill-suited for public office, as he himself has proven.

SO.... Stacie Miller, luvlife, or any other pro-Grenz people, do you want to explain why?? I am genuinely curious.

Having known Butch for the last 50 plus years I for one think he is a stand up guy. He probably ruffled some feathers on some folks when he was Mayor so they start Butch bashing. I think he tells it like it is and some can't handle that. I've read all about his issues with some folks in the past but have yet to hear his side of it. Running a city is a business and he must be doing OK because he still runs 3 of his own so he probably won't have a problem running the town either.

I think he tells it like it is and some can't handle that.

Sorry, Gene, but when "telling it like it is" in a work environment consists of being a sexist pig, among other things, it's not a matter of simply being offensive, but of being illegal. People who do not understand this very clearly have no business in a supervisory position.

he probably won't have a problem running the town either.

You must have known Butch during the 50 years he wasn't mayor.

So Mary, did you observe this first hand or just hear say?

As i recall, wasn't butch ordered to attend classes as part of the harrassment suits before he could be mayor again? Does anyone know if they were ever completed? Would be a complete waste of campaigning and voting if he CAN'T be mayor.

So Mary, did you observe this first hand or just hear say?

It's all very public, Gene.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (9/15/2011)]

I think the City of Miles City wound up settling 4 lawsuits because of Grenz's conduct and the Montana Human Rights Commission investigated at least 2 of the complaints and sided with the employees. That damage all happened in the span of about 15 months. Also while Grenz was mayor the statewide press was having a field day reporting that Miles City's mayor had declared the city "broke" and unable to make payroll.

From an economic development standpoint, these things are not trivial. It's hard to attract business to Miles City when it is being shown in such a poor light on a statewide/regional stage.

Butch may do a wonderful job running his 3 restaurants. My mother certainly thinks so. I say Miles City is much better off with Butch in the kitchen and just about anyone else in the mayor's office.

Dona Stebbins said it well, but to put it another way, good leadership requires diplomacy. Butch Grenz has proven himself time and again to be anything but a diplomat.

And not a single one of those things means he isn't a stand up guy.

So Mary, did you observe this first hand or just hear say?

Gene, I have witnessed his vulgarity first-hand on more than one occasion, and not on a personal level but in a working capacity, and as has been said repeatedly, it is also very well documented as part of public record. How can this behavior continue to be acceptable in the name of "telling it like it is"?

Anybody save the Miles City Star picture of Butch in the Swami turban he wore to a council meeting in order to mock a certain candidate for city council?

I don't think Joe did himself any favors by saying in the Star that he had no choice but to run again because no qualified person ran against him. Even if it's true coming off sounding smug turns people off.

I voted for Butch because of the free ice cream at the Boardwalk.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (9/15/2011)]

I don't like smuggery, either. I suppose you're too county to run for city office? If you answer yes, you're going to save yourself a few hundred votes. Otherwise, let the write-in begin.

I remember last time Butch won the mayor position...people were speaking about all the freebies Butch was giving out to people for their votes. I guess some things never change.

I also read the comments made by our acting Mayor & was not impressed with it. It seemed smug / arrogant to me. It was one of those things that did not have to be said. I guess we are guilty of that once in a while.

It will be an interesting race...good luck to all.

Smuggery versus thuggery? (And I don't think "smuggery" is a word...) I believe Whalen's statement that he was more qualified was accurate. Free ice cream? At least in the old Boss Tweed days, they gave away booze for votes. Levi, you have cheapened the entire process!

I believe his statement, too. Unfortunately, it's no longer true.

If Hillary is from New York, Levi is from Miles City.

Levi Foreman for mayor!!!

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (9/15/2011)]

Who's Levi Foreman? Levi Forman, on the other hand, for mayor of Knowlton!

I believe Whalen would not have run again if he felt a qualified candidate was running. In that regard, I believe he was being sincere when he said what he said. Some might call it, "Telling it like it is."

David, amen to that last statement! Looking at the choice of candidates, I am so hoping that Joe can continue to yank Milestown into the future it has ignored for so long.

If folks just look at what he has accomplished in his term of office, and what he inherited from previous mayors, he will win another term. But Miles City has never been a very progressive place, and I know from personal experience that the populace would rather look back than forward.

It is said that people get the government they deserve. It is my heartfelt wish that MC deserves Joe Whalen. The alternative is sad beyond belief!

You beat me to it David. Why is it "telling it like it is" when it comes from Grenz, but smugness when it comes from Whalen?

If it sounds smug to anyone, it's smug (too much of the Uden stuff has sounded personal for a long time). Sorry for the misspelling, I have a personal affinity for Foremans, they are my friends.

Why is it "telling it like it is" when it comes from Grenz, but smugness when it comes from Whalen?

It is because Mayor Whalen is not from Miles City.

I am unfortunately way too busy breaking stuff around the ranch to run for mayor even if I was eligible. Too bad though because I bet my platform of closing the fire department and funneling all of the funds into a city pool would be a no-fail vote getter.

Smug or no, I really think it'd be a good idea to turn the Mayorship into a full time position.

It'd be hard enough ordinarily to get normal people to want to take the job, but to add insult to injury by calling it 'part time' isn't saving anyone any money in the long run.

Decent management is worth far more than the difference in pay.

Mark this day down - Crapduck agrees with every word Rickenhawk just said.

(We're still a far cry from being birds of a feather though.)

[This message has been edited by Steve Craddock (9/15/2011)]

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (9/15/2011)]

Sorry, you all are having such issues with the primary results. I have known Butch since 1964 and think he and family are great people. Obviously, I am not living in Miles City anymore,followed closely in the Star the harrassment suits, but also understand some of these are often harrassment suits coming from both sides. Not sure if that is the case here.

If you did not want him, then someone you could support should have run against him. It is politics friends....

It pales in the issues I have been dealing with in the past two weeks, mandatory evacuation from my home due to wildfires in Waller County, TX., neighbor turns loose about 10 monkeys, three not returned, one bit a game warden, etc. Fires are still a serious threat here ...no rain, triple digit temps all summer.

Remember life is a journey. Enjoy it and don't get so hung up on issues. Forgive and move on.

And watch out for errant monkeys.

God is angry at Texas.

Butch Grenz is not even worth talking about he a fat dummy. I would not step foot in one of his so called cafe's. Let alone vote for Butch the Fat Dummy for Mayor. I write in Bobby Kenny Go Bobby!!!

[This message has been edited by Gymmie (9/15/2011)]

I think Tom Hanel should run for mayor next time-from Miles City, mayor experience, just have someone talk him into moving back to MC. Seems everyone likes him. Maybe the new mayor could train under him in Billings! That's a thought...

The "voter's" have spoke....and the voter's will choose on election day. Get out and vote for your man....!

My personal vote is for Butch and I don't owe anyone a explanation...Bonine asked for wanting reason's as to why certain people want to see Butch as mayor again??? I do not owe any explanation...to anyone....it is my choice....as it is any voter's right to choose whom they wish in office.

I know Butch made some mistakes....but, at least he admits his faults and may be a little rough around the edges...but, I DO think he cares very much for this town and this time around will be different.....I believe we will see good things happen....and apparently....some other's do, too.

Good luck to both Butch and Joe....both good men!

Sweet jesus - Butch has a cult.

And I bet they, all, are devotees of Limbaugh and Fox News...Not a Rhodes Scholar in the whole bunch...LOL...and for those of you thinking this was a smug comment, IT WAS MEANT TO BE, LOL...

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/16/2011)]

My personal vote is for Butch and I don't owe anyone a explanation.

This strikes me as an odd statement. You don't mind saying that you support him, but the reason is a secret? You want him to win but you don't have anything good to say about him? What's up with that?

I know Butch made some mistakes....but, at least he admits his faults

He was quoted in the Miles City Star, in reference to the harassment charges, as saying that he "really didn't know what he did."

Anyone who does not have respect for half the population will never get my vote and I cannot for the life of me understand why any woman would vote for him.

My first job outside of home was at the 600 Cafe working for Rose Grenz. She was a very strict lady who demanded and recieved the most from her employees. She was fair and honest. As a 12 year old (1975) bus boy and all around gofer I learned much from her. This was when I first met Butch Grenz. I was a little intimadated at first until I begin to get to know Butch. Over the years I have seen Butch do some very wonderful things for the community. Whenever ANY organization needs a donation or assist..., Butch helps out. He provies a free Thanksgiving dinner for all every year. Does Butch do or has he done things he regrets? Sure he has, but haven't you?

I was the Chief of the Custer County Rural Volunteer Fire Company when Butch was elected and remember his desire to broker an agreement between Both the MCFD and the CCRVFC. We had been trying to mend fences for years but there Chief, Brent Christopherson absolutly refused to acknowledge us (its a long story) anyhow Butch was able to get an agreement signed even with the push back from the MCFD Chief. Yes Butch could have been more delecate but He was able to relieve the City of Miles City from the terrible leadership of both the MCFD and MCPD. The cost was high but far less than what it would have cost if the leadership had stayed.

Both departments are light years ahead in professionalism, and ability do to the difficult bridge Butch had to cross. Yes Butch is gruff, but if you knew him you would know he has a heart of gold.

For all of you people who like to attck and make comments, why don't you go and speak with Butch? Hiding behind you computor and throwing stones is pretty petty. Oh by the way, I didn't vote for Butch, as I live outside the City of Miles City (I'm a Kircher critter). But I know both the canadates, have interacted with both and trust only one. With Butch you know where you stand, he's not a politician and is a strait shooter.

An AMEN for Michael's comments. It also appears that most of the "Butch Bashing" come from the folks that don't even use there real names.

My personal vote is for Butch and I don't owe anyone a explanation...Bonine asked for wanting reason's as to why certain people want to see Butch as mayor again??? I do not owe any explanation...to anyone....it is my choice....as it is any voter's right to choose whom they wish in office.

I know Butch made some mistakes....but, at least he admits his faults and may be a little rough around the edges...but, I DO think he cares very much for this town and this time around will be different.....I believe we will see good things happen....and apparently....some other's do, too.

You are correct that you have the freedom to publicly support the candidate of your choosing. You are correct that you don't owe me or anyone else an explanation of why you hold your views.

The outcome of that style of communication however, is that it leaves others open to drawing conclusions about your point of view, that may be incorrect. Seems to me providing a rationale for your public support is actually in your best interest.... but I could be wrong.

I am a former resident of Miles City and have known Butch most of my life. I don't know if Miles City can afford to have Butch as mayor again because everytime he opens his mouth he steps in it. He means well, but it never comes out right. But as far as entertainment in the Miles City Star, Butch is a clear 10 out of 10. Maybe Butch has set his sights to low running for Mayor of Miles City. Perhaps he should consider running for King of Custer County. You might want to consider raising your taxes now to cover the lawsuits that will certainly follow Butch. Has anyone even checked with the insurance company that covers Miles City? Will they continue to cover the city with Butch as Mayor???

Yes Butch is gruff, but if you knew him you would know he has a heart of gold.

I have no problem with Butch being "gruff," but I do have a problem with his harassment of women. It is rather telling that he does not even understand what he did.

Further, how is he going to correct his actions if he has no clue what got him into trouble in the first place?

I worked for a business in Miles City several years ago that did business with some of Butch's operations. I will say that most of the time I did not have a problem with how he chose to do business. However, I will also say when he got mad he was inappropriate in his dealing. One time I answered the phone to him yelling and swearing about a mistake and he wouldn't even let me answer his questions. As it turned out it was his employee's mistake, they had moved something that he ordered and did not move it back to the correct location. My boss at the time called Butch back and told him never to speak to me or any of his employees that way again and Butch did call me later to apologize.

I don't mind Butch speaking his mind as long as he is respectful when he does it. Yelling and swearing is never necessary in business relationships. My bigger problem is the money that his term as mayor cost the city and his remark that he was protecting a woman by not wanting to give her a job...he thought the business she was going into was too male dominated and she was not up to the task, give me a break!!!

redmondroughneck brings up an interesting point. I wouldn't vote for Butch for mayor of Miles City. I would vote for Butch for US Senate, Congress, or MT Governor. Seriously.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (9/16/2011)]

Due to a gag order, all I can say is I'm glad I don't live in Miles City right now.

To Butch's supporters, is it okay to deny a woman a job that works with a male-dominated industry, simply because she is a woman?

If you say no, have you ascertained for yourself whether he has changed his mindset and would not be a further liability to the city in this regard? Or do you simply not care?

For those out-of-town supporters, if you knew him 30 years ago, what bearing would that have on whether or not he would be the best steward of Miles City today?

Wendy, I am gagging, too.

I guess it goes along the same lines of "how many licks does it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop?......the world may never know."

Apparently 47% of the voters who had a choice between 5 canidates felt Butch is the better of the "scorpions". Sorry to say, but deal with it, that's the way it is.

Interesting numbers though:
772 of 1454 didn't vote for Butch
1049 of 1454 didn't vote for Whalen

Adding to "K.D.'s" "interesting numbers":

1600 voters turned out for the primary.
146 of those voters did not vote for any candidate for mayor.

There are 3,459 "active voters" (voters who cast ballots last election).

There are approx. 4,700 registered voters.

1859 active voters did not vote in the primary.

Approx. 3100 registered voters did not vote in the primary.

You have the right to vote based on nothing but your opinion, whether based on fact or fiction, a gut feeling, or what flying purple people eaters tell you to believe. I understand this.

But, for all of you who do not feel it necessary to justify your vote, or simply believe we should accept the will of the majority, I ask, when YOUR choices, which ultimately lead to the election of an official whose choices cost MY tax dollars, do I get to admonish you? Tell you "I told you so"? Be angry that MY tax dollars are being wasted on something that was completely foreseeable based on a provable past, when we have legitimate needs in our city?

Or do we just all say a collective big, fat OOPS!? That darn Butch just put his foot in his mouth again. But that's okay, because he bleeds Miles City and is just telling it like it is?

Seriously, inquiring minds want to know so that we can be prepared when the inevitable happens.

Mary, I agree with you of "why should I suffer for your actions" reasoning. Unfortunately, that is the price to pay for living in a free society.

Apparently 682 out of 1600 (David's number) thought he was the better canidate. And I am sure not all 1600 people are going to get on MC.com to voice thier opinion of why they voted they way they did to please everyone one here.

[This message has been edited by K. D. (9/16/2011)]

Mary, I've been telling people "I told you so" since the fall of 2001. I wish I could say that people will recognize their errors in judgement and make better choices in the future... but that hasn't been my experience.

Montana kicked all the Democrats out of the state legislature just because they'd managed to weather the recession better than most of the other states, and then suffered through stupid tea party idea after stupid tea party idea.

I would hate to see the same thing happen in the mayoral race as well... but people are mostly stupid navel gazing creatures who confuse "i'd sure like to have a beer with that guy" with "that guy would be a great executive officer".

Worst comes to worst... you can always tell them you told them so.

Although technically Bridgier's been on I told you so vacation since the end of 2008. I'm guessing he'll be back once the oceans stop receding and the earth stops healing.

Eight more dead. When will you stop?

Rick is wrong. This surprises no one.

Montana kicked all the Democrats out of the state legislature just because they'd managed to weather the recession better than most of the other states, and then suffered through stupid tea party idea after stupid tea party idea.

Can I get an AMEN! HALLELUJAH!!! to that?

On the other hand....

Rick is wrong. This surprises no one.

Why state the self-evident?

Butch is a fat dummy and i would never vote for him or step foot in one of his so called cafe's. I think John Uden is the man to be the new mayor of Miles City. Good Luck John

[This message has been edited by Gymmie (9/17/2011)]

No seriously Bridgier. For instance you told me that if I voted for John Mccain, the Gitmo Gulag would stay open for business, military tribunals would try detainees, and the Patriot act would get reextended.

And I did, and everything you said came true! Yet you were kind enough not to say "I told you so"

Wendy - Is it a gag order or a gag reflex that is preventing you from saying anything further on this topic?

It is most definitely a gag order, Steve.

I think John Uden is the man to be the new mayor of Miles City. Good Luck John

He is no longer in the race.

Well since John Uden not in the race i would write in Bobby Kenny.
I sure wouldn't vote for the fat dummy Butch Grenz or eat in the 600 cafe. What a pair Butch and Gloria Grenz, Bobby for Mayor!!!!!!!!

Just to chime in on some of the Lawsuits. The former chief that sued and the city, are being sued for the actions of that same former chief. The former chief presented an insanely hostile work environment and the city is going to have to pay for it. I think it's agreeable that Mr. Grenz lacked tact but he also took a hard edge approach to the cities finances that we have benefited from quite a bit. My guess is if you tallied up what the lawsuit costs his budget savings probably outproduced them tenfold. And to be honest I'm surprised our current officials haven't been sued with the certain handling of a certain recent former employee who is involved in lawsuits elswhere. Because let me tell you if all the facts came out on that, things would get real ugly real fast.

I guess we just live in a corrupt society. Your'e making Miles city out to be a mini Chicago.....korkyII

Quick question?? Why would the Mayor of any town play the political role while being ILLEGAL??

http://billingsgazette.co...03286.html

This is such a common, everyday task that I am not sure way anyone, especially the Mayor of a town would go days, weeks, months, years to complete the process to being a legal citizen of our community. Imagine the lawsuit that could have been brought against this community if he had been involved in an accident that could have caused serious damage or even death possibly. I know there are those of you who will jump all over the "could have" train, but I am just having a hard time understanding such negligence from such an important community figure. I am just trying to simply understand is all.

Now for the allegations that were brought against Mr. Grenz, I am curious if these actions were ever witnessed? I do not want you all to assume that I take these actions lightly, however, I know, as well as you probably do to of people who will take a comment made by a employer or coworker and run with it. Usually because they ( the one accusing) will some how benefit if the outcome is in their favor. I am not suggesting that this is what happened, I am merely stating this sort of thing happens daily. Being a manager of a business for several years I myself have dealt with employees on both sides of the spectrum. These are generally the same people who if you went through their work history have mysteriously received workmen's compensation benefits because some how they were always hurt on the job.

Mr. Grenz may not be a man in a three piece Dolce and Gabbana business suit, but I do believe he cares very much for his community. He donates to probably more causes and benefits in this community then anyone else. He tutors students who are struggling with their scholastic's. He operates in my opinion 3 of the best tasting, quality, home cooked restaurants in town that are very well priced, not trying to bleed you for your last dime for something that is over processed. He attends weekly if not daily mass at his church as well as keeps himself, the professor and other students on their toes by attending college courses, which he scores very high in.

He may be a little rough around the edges, wear a red apron and occasionally have messy hair, but that shouldn't reflect on the kind of person that he is.

I personally feel this website is over populated with people who hide behind their computers all day. People who are constantly making rude, mean and uncouth comments on any and almost every topic. People who see things one way and believe their way is the right way. People who have so much to say, yet do little themselves to make changes.

I came across the following: It comes from a website by Susan Doscher who is an Accredited Personal Development Coach. Read on if you are open minded and can take a look outside the box and grasp that these things may be who exactly you are.

"Everybody is judgmental, we all judge people when we see them." A statement I overheard on a train the other day. Having grown up in a house with two main rules `No empty threats' and `Everybody is innocent until proven guilty' i.e. do not judge a book by its cover, my immediate thought was `Now wait a minute' when I heard this comment. However as the gentleman then continued to say "When you see someone walking down the street who is dressed like a thug, you think of him as a thug", I realized how, even with my upbringing, I too tend to label in the first instance. I think some of our underlying beliefs encourage us on some deeper level to use judgment for whatever our individual reasons are for. Thankfully I have acknowledged and resolved the beliefs I used to hold which made me judgmental in some instances. I have learned how to truly not `judge a book by its cover'. I realized that I used to use judgment as a way of keeping people distant, not allowing for closeness for whatever reason. Judgment was the tool I used to feel safe! Thank Heavens those days are long gone. My life has been a simpler, nicer, clearer place and to live in without all those negative thoughts/beliefs. There is so much more room for thoughts that give me energy rather than drain me.

 Being judgmental can come from insecurity, or the need to control. There is less room for generosity and openness in such an atmosphere. I take this to be risky behaviour as you can `cut your nose to spite your face' by writing someone off before you have gotten to know them better. It appears to me that judging someone can hurt both parties, as it limits where the interaction/conversation/relationship can go, it sets boundaries.

 Non-judgmental people are often openhearted, freer with their emotions and have less need to control the environment through categorizing everything. They tend to be more at ease and comfortable within themselves and the world around them.

Next time you catch yourself judging someone stop and think what you might be feeling uncomfortable about, and what you might be losing by judging someone too quickly.

Some questions to ask yourself if you wish to start moving away from that behaviour pattern of being judgmental:

1. What triggered this judgmental behaviour in me?

2. What exactly did the person say/do, not say/ not do?

3. What, if anything, am I assuming about this person.this situation?

4. Is my assumption stopping me from being understanding/openhearted?

5. Might there be another way to look at this?

6. What might some of these other points of view be?

7. What will happen if I do not manage to change my judgment of this person?

8. How would that affect me?

9. What is the best thing for me to do now? Think of your choices, make one and,

10. Go ahead and take that action.

I am challenging you to spend more time reflecting on the type of person you are. Spend more time reflecting on how you can personally better your community, whether it be volunteering, spending 20 minutes picking up litter, speaking only positive comments about anyone or anything even if you can only handle doing so for 1 hour a day, refrain from posting nasty and tasteless comments on this website and reflect on something positive about this wonderful little town we all call home.

I realize these forums are made for discussion, but does it really need to be negative?? I believe we are all entitled to our own political thoughts and beliefs, we are all entitled to watch Fox News or Nancy Grace if we choose, we are all allowed to vote or not to vote, we are all allowed to basically make any choices we want. However only God can judge. Well maybe you don't believe in god?? Does that still give you the right to judge anyone?? Try walking a mile in someone else's shoes before you choose to speak ill of them.

My vote was and will be for Mr. Grenz. No matter who wins the position of Mayor for the community of Miles City I hope their efforts are positive and effective so that more of us can be proud of where we live.

Fool me once...

I didn't have to be there as there was a committee that found Butch guilty of his verbal abuse and treatment of women which included sexual overtones (verbally) which is illegal...and the penalty was paid by the city of Miles City...I doubt Butch paid it back...if you wish to support a pig like this, not only do I not care what you think but I wouldn't care to be around you either with my female offspring in tow...YUCK...

It is ignorant to state that his over $300,000 cost in lawsuits to the taxpayers of this community is somehow over shadowed by a benefit he somehow brought to the City. Butch is a bully, employees thought so, Human Rights Bureau thought so, City Council thought so. Keep in mind when you place your vote; 1.) the accomplishments he states were his, simply arent, if you doubt go get educated in City Hall its black and white, prove me wrong. 2.) Butch consitently called a City Hall worker "baby cakes" & "bitch" because he wasnt bright enough to remember her name, or maybe he just thought he was down at the restaurant where he is known to frequently call his waitresses by these less than impressive names. 3.)as stated in the Miles City paper he really didnt know what the human rights complaints were about....how can one learn from ones mistakes if he refuses to see pd lawsuits of over $300,000. Oh wait, he didnt have to pay them thats we did. Oh, and please dont forget those immortal last words of wisdom when he was disgraced out of office, and I quote "you dont have to stick your whole head up your ass to smell poop when you can just stick your finger up there to know it smells bad"

So once again, you support who you what, I will support who I want. We could go round in round in circles and that gets us nowhere. I merely asked a few questions, never once stated anything as the "facts"

So I once again ask why did Mayor Whalen choose to be a illegal citizen of Custer County?? Just curious his reasoning?? To lazy to go to the appropriate offices to take care of business or what?? Foolishness on his part if you ask me. If he was so out of touch with something so common, I would hate to find out what else he has "forgot" to do.

As far as the name calling/bullying you seem like a hypocrite to me if you find "baby cakes" & "bitch" to be offensive, yet in turn you lower your own standards and refer to someone as a "pig" You would never have to worry about yourself or your female off spring being associated with me or my family because I can ALMOST guarantee we have "nothing" in common and do not walk in the same circles.

I do hope as I raise my beautiful child I can teach her that it is not okay to do unto others just because they may have done unto you or your family and friends.

I can't think of a single person who hasn't been a hyorcrite one time or another in their life, but I guess we should quit complaining about someone else's doings when our own back step needs cleaning off.

I love quotes. I find a new one each day to think about. I will share todays.

GREAT people talk about IDEAS
AVERAGE people talk about THINGS
SMALL people talk about OTHER PEOPLE

An illegal citizen? What the hell is that? Surely you're not alleging that Mr. Whalen is an illegal alien? I don't think there is such a thing as an illegal citizen.

"SMALL people talk about OTHER PEOPLE"

They're candidates for political office, of course people will talk about them. It's called being an informed voter.

I thought I read that the City's legal counsel indicated that Whalen driving a city-owned vehicle without a valid driver's license posed little to no liability risk to the City. That makes sense to me as it's not practical for an employer to continually monitor the status of its employees' driver's licenses; therefore, you want an insurance policy that provides coverage even if an employee's license is or becomes invalid.

I have seen a number of different Miles City mayors over the years and I'd say pretty much all of them represented the City with honor. Not all of them.

Oh, and "Bix", don't you think it's silly to come on here and gripe about anonymous posters when you yourself are posting anonymously?

Bix, I hope as you raise your beautiful child, you allow someone else to help her with spelling and grammar...

and also Bix, please teach her that it isn't ok for the person in the work place to constantly call her "bitch"...or place their hands on her buttocks...

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/27/2011)]

Butch Grenz for mayor again!!!! WHATSAMATTERU


Wasn't that Bullwinkle's Alma mater?


He is still on of the biggest bullies ever to come out of Miles City, He was afraid to leave town for fear someone would give him the ass kicking he deserved and needed. I would have thought life with Gloria would have mellowed him a bit but it seems to have made him even meaner as witnessed by his last train wreck as mayor.

I'm not a Whalon fan I think he is in the witness relocation program or running from the law hoping to run in to the one armed man who really killed his wife.

Good luck MC you'll need it!

You do have to give Butch credit for big nuts, even to run again after the way he appeared to screw it up last time out.

Well, I am voting for Butch, yep all the reverse psychology of what a bad, mean, and down right horrible person he is finally got to me.

2.) Butch consitently called a City Hall worker "baby cakes" & "bitch" because he wasnt bright enough to remember her name, or maybe he just thought he was down at the restaurant where he is known to frequently call his waitresses by these less than impressive names.

I would think that if Butch ran a legal buisiness, his employees are intitled to the Harrasment In The Work Place policy, so either: (A) His waitresses are ok and fine with him doing this. (B) They don't complain for fear of the resulting implications. (C) You are a liar, and it doesn't happen at all. OR (D) None of the above.

Which is it?

Is it true that campaign signs like this one are popping up all over Miles City?

I would love, if it were possible (which it isn't), to know the collective IQ of the bullys fans...

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/27/2011)]

I can't help it if the truth hurts. Its documentated look it up. But please by all means riddle me this batman if Butch is such a great wonderful person and a great Mayor, why was he ousted in two years with over $300,000 of Human Rights complaints?

First off...I just want to say, I personally know 5 people working for Butch right now that would tell you they LOVE working for him...and that is the truth.
ALOT...of what is being said here is not all the truth...Butch touching his waitress's on the buttock's??? Funny...he has NEVER been sued for at the work place??? How many years has he ran a sucessful business???

One other thing....there are 2 sides to every story. Many people of Miles City saw many faults in Christopherson and Power...and many felt those lawsuits were unjust. I am not going to come on this site and drag out names or say things after the fact.

I am just saying...I think Butch has learned alot by his past action's and believe despite the past that he will work hard for our city. I see many of you are describing Butch in negative ways...does that make you any better???

Butch may have been known as a so-called "BULLY" in his past...but, I have to tell you this...if you all knew the Butch in this present...he does have a heart of gold and does want good things for our city...it is just sad the lawsuits ever took place....most of you on here feel it was ALL Butch's fault....yet, I know many whom thought it was (like anything) nowadays....SUE...SUE...SUE$$$$$$$~!

I know he is NOT perfect...I would just like to see him have another chance at it...so, I will give him my vote.

@ David Schott I never made ANY comments about anoynmous posters!!! Better go back and check that again! Driving around without a valid driver's license and insurance is illegal!! I could careless what the "City's legal counsel say about him driving a city owned vehicle without a valid drivers license and insurance. You can't tell me that if he would have gotten into a accident that caused serious body damage or even death to someone that it has little to no liability risk to the city!! As far as "small people talking about them" I have no problem discussing candidates for political offices. It is all the negative, catty, bullpoop I am talking about. If you don't have a clue what I am talking about then I guess you and your "friends" collective IQ's may need to be reevaluated in order to remain members of the "Mensa Society"

@ Wendy Wilson.....LOL Illegal(driving without a valid drivers license is illegal. Driving without insurance is illegal) Citizen (: an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2
a : a member of a state)

@ Dona Stebbins.......so sorry I never proof read my postings for you! Wow really!! Have you ever made an error in your life?? If not I guess you should probably run for mayor?? Do you have kids?? If so I sure hope they make it through life ok considering all the errors/mistakes I am sure you have made. Poor kids!! I am pretty sure my beautiful child will be just fine. They have excellent teachers at the school she will someday attend!!

@ Howdy I am a new mother and I hope I can instill in my daughter many valuable life lessons, morals and values. Unlike Dona I will more then likely fail from time to time, but I will just have to get up, shake it off, and try again. I have been reading a few different parenting books and such and her are a few things I hope my daughter will learn from me: Life is not always fair, but, overall, it is still good.
People are good. People may make choices that are not good, but people themselves are still good.
Do not judge people. Especially do not judge people based on age, gender, family status, social status, race, national origin, religion, health, etc.
Share. Give of yourself to others.
Treat others with the same kindness and understanding with which you would like to be treated.
Treat yourself with this same kindness and understanding. Expect others to treat you similarly. Stand up for yourself when they do not.
Just because an action is justified, that does not mean that the action is right.
Not everyone will like you. Make peace with that.
Establish and maintain healthy boundaries.
Choose battles wisely.
Negotiate when dealing with differences. Seek win-win outcomes.
Two people can hold very different perspectives and yet both can be right.
Know when to walk away. Do so without judgment of those you leave behind. (For example, they may be making choices that are not good, choices that you do not want to adversely affect you, but they are still good people who will hopefully learn and grow from their trial-and-error lessons. Also you posting that you would to know the collective IQ of the bully's fan........Are you suggesting we are STUPID just because we do not agree with your choice? If that is what you are suggesting that is pretty small minded, judgmental and ignorant on your part!! Actually it seems like "bullying" to me. which in turn would make you a hypocrite if you are so concerned about Mr. Grenz being a bully!!


@ Chuck "He is still on of the biggest bullies ever to come out of Miles City, He was afraid to leave town for fear someone would give him the ass kicking he deserved and needed. I would have thought life with Gloria would have mellowed him a bit but it seems to have made him even meaner as witnessed by his last train wreck as mayor." You seem to know more personal details about Butch then he does himself. Maybe you should be his campaign manager. P.S. better check your grammar and spelling before Dona goes "bat poop crazy" yes Dona it is actually a phrase people use these days. Maybe not the most politically correct phrase, but funny!!


@ Todd's you state the truth hurts! I never once said the allegations were or were not true. I merely stated he was my choice in vote and I pointed out some of the good things he does for this community. "riddle me this batman" I wouldn't want to complain that you calling me "batman" is sexual harassment so to keep things legit maybe you better refer to me as "cat woman" in the future.

David I haven't noticed any of those signs. They do have however on Amazon I love Chris "Butch" Grenz tshirts/

Great response, Bix!

I think to many on this thread are making ALOT of false accusations here....and that is just not right.

As I said before...to all the Butch (hater's)...vote for the man you want and maybe quit the bad mouthing on here.

If you have noticed....those of us voting for Butch for mayor are NOT badmouthing Mr. Waylon....and their have been things said about him and situations that have happened while being Mayor that don't put him without mistake's. I personally have nothing against him...I wish them both luck...my vote is for Butch...and NO...I am not mentally unstable....and neither are the majority that voted for him....face it people....there are Mile Citian's who do want to see Butch for Mayor...quit whining and quit making up stories....and calling this town a bunch of idiots...! AGAIN...get out there and VOTE.

(AT) Dona Stebbins.......so sorry I never proof read my postings for you! Wow really!! Have you ever made an error in your life?? If not I guess you should probably run for mayor?? Do you have kids?? If so I sure hope they make it through life ok considering all the errors/mistakes I am sure you have made. Poor kids!! I am pretty sure my beautiful child will be just fine. They have excellent teachers at the school she will someday attend!!

Umm... if memory serves me here, Dona was a very successful mayor of Great Falls, MT. She probably has some insight into the kind of person that should be in position of mayor that would be rather valuable.

And it is interesting that those in favor of Butch still haven't given significant reason as to why. In my book, "he like Miles City" isn't a real reason. There are lots of people that like Miles City. What is Butch's vision for the community (assuming he has one) that inspires you to vote for him?

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (9/28/2011)]

I love statements like, "I think there are a lot of false accusations here."

I think 2 and 2 is 4. Maybe.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (9/28/2011)]

Bix wrote:

"I personally feel this website is over populated with people who hide behind their computers all day. People who are constantly making rude, mean and uncouth comments on any and almost every topic. People who see things one way and believe their way is the right way. People who have so much to say, yet do little themselves to make changes."

Pot, kettle.

Bix wrote:

"I could careless what the "City's legal counsel say about him driving..."

I'm not sure why the City bothers with attorneys. What a waste.

Bix wrote:

You can't tell me that if he would have gotten into a accident that caused serious body damage or even death to someone that it has little to no liability risk to the city!!"

If an employee is somehow negligent in their driving and causes an "accident" that causes bodily harm, the City would be liable whether the employee is licensed or not. That is why the City has liability insurance. That's not so hard to understand is it?

There is nothing "negative" or "catty" about talking about Butch Grenz's last failed attempt at being Mayor. It is a matter of public record. It is in the newspaper archives, City records archives, State records archives. The man was accused of harassing employees and causing a hostile work environment. His ineloquent voicemail to the former fire chief was recorded. The accusations were investigated by the proper authorities and the City wound up settling. What's even worse is that Butch apparently is still in denial that he did anything improper.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a Mensa meeting to attend.

LOL, your last line was priceless about the Mensa meeting!!! Best line of the entire thread!!!

Just curious...as I don't have a dog in this fight but...What exactly has the current mayor done that is so great for Miles City? You're asking Butch supporters to list their reasons for choosing Butch, why support Whalen? Are you supporting Whalen just because he isn't Butch Grenz?

I don't personally know Joe Whalen or Butch either for that matter just going by public record, but there is a link on this web site that lists the achievements of Whalens term and it is impressive IMO...just click on it to the left of the other threads and you will see what I mean...

https://sites.google.com/...yorwhalen/

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/28/2011)]

You're asking Butch supporters to list their reasons for choosing Butch, why support Whalen? Are you supporting Whalen just because he isn't Butch Grenz?

Thank you for asking. I suppose who you support for mayor depends on the vision you have for Miles City. If you are content with it being a Peyton-place cowtown with a proud past and an unclear future then anyone will do. If you envision Miles City actually growing and reaching its potential as a regional hub with a significant and diverse economy, then you need to be a little more selective.

For several years on this site there has been a consistent drum-beat of why doesn't brand-x move here or we need this, that, or the other thing. Service based businesses, Applebees for example, are largely a population driven entity. If you want expanded opportunities for service based business, the community has to grow in size. You need to attract light manufacturing firms, professional services firms, ag processing facilities, etc. When you have those businesses in place

In order to achieve that growth, a lot of new infrastructure and capital investment is going to be required. Attracting that capital and planning and placing the infrastructure is requires a lead evangelist (mayor) that has some basic people skills. There will be many many meetings with other governmental entities, private industry, etc. These situations require someone who understands meeting protocol and the art of negotiation. It requires someone whom those on the outside will find respectable and trustworthy if they are to invest in the community.

These are skills that Mayor Whalen has demonstrated he possesses. They are not skills that Mr. Grenz (not really Butch's fault) possesses. It is about demonstrated leadership and moving the City forward to achieve its potential.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (9/28/2011)]

but there is a link on this web site that lists the achievements of Whalens term and it is impressive IMO...just click on it to the left of the other threads and you will see what I mean...

https://sites.google.com/site/electmayorwhalen/

Median Home Value: $76,132, or an increase of 27%
Median Household Income: $36,886, or an increase of 23.6%

Can you honestly say Whalen should take credit for this?

NE Water Project funded & complete for higher water pressure throughout the City
New Carbon Hill Water Tank, our primary water storage site, funded & constructed following catastrophic failure
New Riverside Water Tank funded & complete for reliable, redundant water supply

This was already in the works before Butch even took office, but Butch is the one that got the ball rolling, Whalen just took over where Butch left off. Again, can you honestly say Whalen should take credit for this?

again you wish to argue about achievements of Whalen vs Butch, but you never answered the question...why was he ousted in two years with over $300,000 of Human Rights complaints? plus why would you even consider voting for someone with that past record...You can debate whether or not you think Whalen did achievements or not, but he wasn't ousted with $300,000 in fines was he?? Just common sense to me at least...to each his own, and to steal anothers line, I have to go now and catch that mensa meeting as well...it is hard to stay out of that meeting, the longer this thread continues IMO...

I think Richard summed it up nicely. Let's just say that if Company X was considering opening a business here in Miles City and they sent a company representative to Miles City to meet with local officials, I would rather they meet with Joe Whalen than Butch Grenz. Especially if the company rep. happened to be female. How many "sweet cheeks" would it take before the company picked Glendive instead?

It seems like many Miles Citians suffer from a "pack mentality" that, while noble, probably doesn't always lend itself to good decision making. It's easy to let our emotions cloud our judgment.

K.D., I agree with you that it would be dubious at best for Whalen to claim sole credit for those projects, but for much of the work I do believe he was the executive in charge of the City when the work was contracted and performed. Also, I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty sure the Carbon Hill water tank failed and was replaced entirely after Grenz's time in office. Again, I wouldn't give Whalen sole credit for the Carbon Hill project, but he was in charge when the "crisis" occurred.

Howdy,

Butch is native. Joe is not.

David brings up a good point. When I was trying to get off disability by studying to be Sanitarian, I attended several meetings in Helena. I also attended a workshop for public officials in Billings, while on the city clowncil. Mayor Whalen was highly regarded in conversation.

[This message has been edited by Kelly (9/28/2011)]

Butch is an Indian?? Wow, I didn't know that...

Just kidding Kelly, but couldn't resist....

[This message has been edited by howdy (9/28/2011)]

Howdy, yes, Butch has degrees from the University of New Delhi.

The more P.C. term is "First Peoples", I do believe.

Is "sweet cheeks" less P.C. than "Indian"

ROFL Gunnar... I think this thread is zooming over the heads of many and creating quite the traffic jam...Poor air traffic controllers must be getting tired...

Kelly,
I can attest to the fact that Joe Whalen is highly regarded by people involved in local government. I can also verify that there was a collective sigh of relief when Mr. Grenz left office, trailing his lawsuits behind him.

Earlier, the question was asked if Grenz ever completed the classes that were ordered by the judges involved. I would be very interested in knowing, as I am sure others would be, as well. If he has NOT completed them, is he eligible to hold office?

(AT) Wendy Wilson.....LOL Illegal(driving without a valid drivers license is illegal. Driving without insurance is illegal) Citizen (: an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman
2
a : a member of a state)

Bix, you specifically stated that Mr. Whalen was an "illegal citizen". There is no such status as an illegal citizen. You are either a legal visitor, a legal resident, a citizen, or an illegal alien. I believe that Mr. Whalen was born in this country and thus is a citizen. He committed a violation of the traffic laws which doesn't affect his citizenship. Accuracy in language helps one communicate clearly and effectively.

You all show more patience than I do, debating Bix, as I think Bix is a procreateing idiot.

Gunnar is correct. Bix is making a lame attempt to use the word "illegal" as a smear.

It's a common tactic of the racist, teabagging moron.

I like Ike, (Grenze), maybe he could be Butches brain trust.
Grenze and bear it people, politics suck.

So I have been trying to find out, but what is Candidate Grenz's platform for running?

Also what is Mayor Whalen's platform?

https://sites.google.com/...yorwhalen/

[This message has been edited by CaseIH (10/29/2011)]