Barry Bonds
Posted by Matt Schmitz (+93) 16 years ago
Just wondering what you all think about Barry Bonds? Personally, I am so tired of ESPN glorifying the cheater that I just can't stand it anymore. So much air time devoted to a man that can't play a kids game without being juiced up. Lots of other good stuff going on in sports, but we have to hear about it every time Barry blows his nose. ESPN is very close to losing this long time viewer. I always thought they were supposed to report the news, not create it. Barry has despised the media for his entire career, and now ESPN gives him a forum to tell us the truth? The truth according to Barry is a ludicrus idea. Just wondering if any of you have thoughts on this matter.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 16 years ago
Who? I remember a guy named Babe Ruth. Amazing athlete. Accomplished amazing things, including a heck of a comeback, based purely on his own abilities. Great guy.

Amorette
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Posted by Slosh (+703) 16 years ago
I truly am trying hard to stay out of this argument (I get in it way too often) but I thought this was interesting.
This is just a segment of a great column. Check out the rest of it if you get a second.

But Ruth didn't just stop at the watering hole to find an edge. According to The Baseball Hall of Shame's Warped Record Book, by Bruce Nash, Allan Zullo and Bob Smith, the Bambino fell ill one year attempting to inject himself with extract from a sheep's testes. This effort by more than a few athletes of his era to seek the healing and strengthening properties of testosterone prefigured the craze for steroids. When Ruth fell ill from his attempted enhancement, the media was told that Ruth merely had "a bellyache." This was believable since Ruth was a glutton, famed for eating eighteen-egg omelets. The Sultan of Swat was also a glutton for women and violence, and he could be roused to fisticuffs if it was suggested, as it often was, that he was part black. The Babe's famous trade-out of Boston in 1920 was justified by Sox owner Harry Frazee by saying that Ruth was "one of the most selfish and inconsiderate athletes I have ever seen."

http://www.thenation.com/...0522/zirin
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Posted by MCGirl (+300) 16 years ago
So turn off the TV when Bonds on Bonds comes on. I hate it when ESPN talks about the NBA all the time, but I'm not stopping watching. Bonds is an arrogant, selfish man, a player who has gifts both nature-given and pharmaceutically given, and I am as ready as anyone for him to just retire already. He'll beat Ruth, but not Aaron.
I am tired of Bonds. Let's talk about Pujols instead.

Seacrest, out.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 16 years ago
So, what do I know.

Truthfully, I'd rather watch paint dry than baseball but I did read an article recently on the efforts Ruth put into getting back into shape when he had really started to slip and he did it by exercising and improving his diet. But all in all, I have no interest in sport in general and just should have stayed out of the discussion. (I mean, I couldn't even tell you what channel ESPN is on!)

Amorette
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4462) 16 years ago
Yeah, Bonds gets too much press, but I don't hate the guy. I will watch him hit all day long. I don't care about his whiny little show, but the man has talent. He's probably a cheater and everyone hates him, but he's paying the bills right now.
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Posted by Matt Schmitz (+93) 16 years ago
I don't really hate him either Buck. But I am disgusted with what ESPN is doing regarding Bonds. He obviously has talent, but is paying the bills what it's all about? Is San Francisco getting there moneys worth? Not even close in my opinion. The talk is all about him breaking Ruth's record, but it's not Ruth's record anymore. Hank Aaron owns that record. Don't get me wrong, Babe Ruth was quite likely a better athlete than anyone that any of us will ever see. Over 300 wins as a pitcher, 714 home runs, and I believe his lifetime batting average was over .330, numbers we will never see again. Ever. Sure he had his problems with alcohol, and who knows what else, but who among us has no demons in the closet? I am just geting really tired of the invention of a non story strictly for the benefit of ESPN. They have turned into a network of ratings whores in my opinion.
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Posted by Slosh (+703) 16 years ago
Just to clear up some numbers (I'm not trying to demean anybody, but this is what I do for a living. And I'm bored.)

Babe Ruth's pitching career ended with a 94-46 record and a 2.28 ERA. Very good numbers, and if he would have stuck with pitching, he would have easily amassed 300 wins. But then we wouldn't be having this argument.

Some of the main numbers for Ruth's career. Obviously the 714 home runs, 2211 RBI's, 123 stolen bases, a .342 batting average and a .690 slugging percentage.

Bonds' numbers in the same categories; 713, 1865, 506, .300, .610

Ruth did his numbers in 22 seasons, this is Bonds' 18th.

Just thought I'd throw that out there, and thank you to everyone for giving me my column idea for tomorrow.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4462) 16 years ago
I just wish congress hadn't turned it into an issue that involes more than the people that care about baseball. No offense Amorette, but I don't really care about your opinion on this one. Babe Ruth is great, but you couldn't pick Bonds or Pujols out of a lineup.

I like to judge the talent for myself and as a serious fan, I feel like my vote should count more. Bonds has talent, maybe the best eye ever, but his stats are tainted. Still, there is no way I'm going to miss history. I don't like that it was Kobe scoring 81 or Mark McGwire breaking Maris's record, but I'm tuned in for Bonds at bats and I like to think that every gigantic homer like the one in Philly brings a bit of credibility to his game. They are testing for drugs now, he's an old man, but he still has it. It's going to be slow going and I'm skeptical if he'll get to Aaron's record, but it's not his fault nobody will pitch to him. Among all the athletes I've ever seen, Bonds has always been the best at ignoring criticism and then proving EVERYONE wrong. If you watch baseball, you know the Philly homer I mean and he had the away crowd on their feet (after they booed him.) It's hard to deny 500 foot homers, so let the fans decide if the record is credible. Put an asterisk by it and say, "Decide for yourself." Hate it or love it, don't miss it.

P.S. Keith Hernandez anyone? I know he sounded like a bastard, but the woman in the dugout did break tradition. He went about it the wrong way, but I don't think women belong in the dugout either. If I'm the manager, I'm not letting a woman in the dugout. Of course, pampered athletes don't pay attention to the game anyway, but I'd have a hard time giving my athletes someone to perform for.

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (edited 5/12/2006).]
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Posted by Bridgier (+9469) 16 years ago
Bonds is easy to pick out of a lineup - he's the one with the freakishly large head...
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Posted by MCGirl (+300) 16 years ago
I miss the dangly gold cross earring...
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Posted by Bob L. (+5096) 16 years ago
I'm likely in the minority, but I think Bonds' records should stand and not have an asterisk next to them.

Bonds is a bad guy and is easy to root against. I hope he never hits another home run.

But baseball players have been looking for an edge forever. Players have been regularly amping up on "greenies" for at least 50 years. Read "Ball Four" by Jim Bouton sometime.

Bonds was juicing, but so were many pitchers. Steroids don't help with hand-eye coordination.

Bonds is/was a freakishly awesome talent, with or without the juice.
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Posted by Slosh (+703) 16 years ago
Thank you Bob. And no you aren't in the minority. Well maybe we are in the minority, but at least you have company.

And MCGirl, I too miss the dangly gold cross earring. At least he still has his can of copenhagen still in his back pocket

[This message has been edited by Slosh (edited 5/12/2006).]
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Posted by Morhead (+123) 16 years ago
I have always noticed that he who is on top is hated, until they retire or die. I am a NASCAR fan for many years, and heard nothing but boos for Earnhart--until his death when everyone all the sudden loved Him. Babe Ruth was no roll model either. He was a fall down drunk. This was the same talk going on when Bonds broke Mark's single season home run record, Hello I believe Mark was a little juiced up. He maid Bonds look small. Anyone who has witnessed Bonds hitting a home run, will one day be bragging about it to there grandchildren. I know I will.
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Posted by Slosh (+703) 16 years ago
I completely agree with Morhead. If anyone can remember back to 1961 (I know because of the movie and various books) but Roger Maris wasn't exactly everybody's favorite. He was surly with the media (much like Bonds) and not liked by most of the fans. But then the push came for the asterisk to be dropped and now everybody in the world loves Roger Maris.

I hope we don't make it 45 years before we give Bonds the credit he deserves. I can't wait to tell my kids and grandkids about watching Barry Bonds play. I'm sure it'll be a lot like hearing my grandpa talk about Babe Ruth and my dad talk about Sandy Koufax.
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Posted by Matt Schmitz (+93) 16 years ago
We surely all understand that steroids don't help with the hand-eye coordination neccesary to hit a baseball. The major benefits of the roids are the healing properties they have. My question is this? How many fewer at bats would Barry have had without the juice? The recovery time from injuries, major and minor, is lessoned with the roids. I doubt he would be close to Ruth without this unfair advantage. But we will never know.
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