The poor should be POOR
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
http://crooksandliars.com...ans-want-b

Can you imagine the screaming if it was suggested that rich folks be legally restricted in the amount of money they had in their pocket? I bet the term "unconstitutional" would be tossed around a whole lot.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+762) 10 years ago
One might wonder if there was an actual reason for the plan. Like trying to prevent welfare money being used for gambling and alcohol and drugs.
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Posted by Wil Nelson (+72) 10 years ago
Using food stamp debit cards to obtain cash illegally is a real problem here in Seattle. Payout is 50 cents on the dollar. Reportedly, they then use the cash for drugs, booze and tobacco.

[This message has been edited by Wil Nelson (3/20/2011)]
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
oh just send them to debtors prison and get it over with...You don't punish them all for the acts of a few...
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Posted by Leif Hope (+93) 10 years ago
http://kstp.com/kstpImage...171DE2.PDF

PDF of the proposed changes to the Minnesota EBT program.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1903) 10 years ago
So, if someone who's poor goes out and mows a lawn for $25.00, he/she better bank it fast in case the "money-checkers" catch him. Procreate you people.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
You all might take a look at the following website:

http://thepolicyinstitute.org Page six

I did hear a guy from Gt. Falls comment that "If your name is on the check, you are not against it"!
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
http://www.thepolicyinsti...report.pdf

this is a list of the local Montana legis. members that have received tremendous subsidies from the government...Please note that most of them are republicans, receiving IMO government welfare...Please scroll down a few pages to see the list (I think 6 pages or so)

[This message has been edited by howdy (3/20/2011)]
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
I had that list under Montana welfare queens. Yes, our tea baggers turn down money for the poor but for themselves, keep those bucks a 'comin.'
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3711) 10 years ago
Couldn't they just replace food stamps with a credit card that only works at the grocery store and require ID to use it? Doesn't sound that tough to me.

EDIT: Oh and we could really give it a rest with the posting of proposed legislation that most likely came from the mind of a solitary blowhard and acting like it's the official stance of everyone on the right.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (3/20/2011)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6175) 10 years ago
Most food stamps are issued as a debit card now anyway. The problem would be getting compliance from the grocery stores to check ID. And then there's the problem of the self-checkout lanes.
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Posted by Carol S (+246) 10 years ago
Drug testing is required to get a job so why isn't it a requirement to obtain welfare, food stamps, or free medical? Also I know of people collecting welfare benefits and Full Disability Social Security that are not reporting the cash that they are getting under the table. Why don't I report it? Because it is never confidencial information like it is suppose to be. So the poor sometimes are better off getting all they can for free than us that have to work for everything we have. I am not saying all poor are not deserving of using the system, but some should not only loose it but have to pay back what they basically stole from us.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1903) 10 years ago
"EDIT: Oh and we could really give it a rest with the posting of proposed legislation that most likely came from the mind of a solitary blowhard and acting like it's the official stance of everyone on the right."

You're absolutely right, Levi. So now let's hear from someone on the right who strongly disagrees with this latest brilliant idea.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
The ideal would be for everyone to find work and be self-supporting but, sometimes it is difficult when you have the wrong last name, teeth missing, always a flaw as we are human beings and now we are hearing that the US workers just do not have enough training. It was interesting to visit with a young man in the Philippines the other night. He works for the credit card portion of a major bank. His job is customer service in regard to accounts and he makes $300 a month. He said that is a very good wage in that it is 18,000 pesos, thus, a comfortable living. That bank was one that was needed the bailout..depending on the American tax dollar. Interesting world we live in.
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
Sounds like class warfare to me. Oh, no. Wait. Class warfare only happens when the poor want to damage the rich. When the rich want to damage the poor, that is called pragmatism.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3711) 10 years ago
You're absolutely right, Levi. So now let's hear from someone on the right who strongly disagrees with this latest brilliant idea.


Nah, just keep putting people in boxes. It's easier than thinking.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
Some of these people are PROUD to be in these boxes Levi, that's the problem.

Although, in regards to the current topic, the lede was perhaps more sensational that it needed to be: http://www.balloon-juice....h-t-bones/
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
And the poor should be sick as well: http://www.balloon-juice....l-mankind/
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3711) 10 years ago
Sure. They put themselves in boxes just like the other side does. This wacky stuff is what happens when people don't employ critical thinking. They are advocating ideology that they have never deeply understood or even thought through and carrying it to extremes, or what they think it is to extremes. The result...nonsense.

Then people on the other side grab onto the nuttiest 1% of what what amounts to roughly 100+ million people, and paints the whole group with the same brush. The first guys do the same thing to the other side, and you wind up with a few hundred million people, most of whom are reasonably intelligent, mindlessly hating on a ridiculous caricature of a human being and assuming that people on the other side are actually like that.

The result is the absolutely moronic and infantile level of political discourse in this country, which is regularly in evidence on this board, not to mention the halls of congress.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6175) 10 years ago
Amen, Levi. Amen.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
I suppose I'd agree with you... but I've watched the last 10 years pass in a race to the bottom on the R side of the aisle, in an attempt to find what appear to be the dumbest people in America.

And out of that pool, they pick the most aggressively stupid and vote them into office.

And it wouldn't be so bad if that were only 10% of the R party, but 60% of the rest are VOTING for them.

And 40% of the D's stayed home last November, and now we are where we are.

Let me put this to you another way: Denny Rehburg is going to vote for all of the following: gutting title X, cutting funding for immunizations, closing community health and poison control centers, mandating that the IRS investigate the source of any and all funds that pay for abortions, redefine the term "rape" so that only "violent" rapes can be paid for with HSA or FSAs, etc, etc, etc.

Did you vote for him? Are you going to vote for him again?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
Don't forget gutting the EPA and reducing funding for food inspections so more salmonella can get into our uninsured bodies.

All of which will have a negligible effect on deficit because they aren't touching the military or raising taxes.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
How does one recognize if they are the one who is moronic and infantile..and, what is the measure? Having read your Topics for quite a long time, I felt some were having fun voicing their opinion while others were having fun with theirs. It always seemed like despite the differences, there was a level of comaraderie???
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
Just agree with me Jeri, and you'll never be wrong.



No really, I'm serious.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
Thank you so much! Your generosity is only superceded by your good looks:-)
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6175) 10 years ago
And the fact that he can dance the Highland Fling like Gene Kelly.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
Then people on the other side grab onto the nuttiest 1% of what what amounts to roughly 100+ million people, and paints the whole group with the same brush.


Or like in this case, they just make stuff up out of whole cloth to paint the other side with.

Then when their lie is exposed, they still keep on going in the name of truthiness... "Well, I guess what I said wasn't really true, but it might as well have been."
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3711) 10 years ago
Let me put this to you another way: Denny Rehburg is going to vote for all of the following: gutting title X, cutting funding for immunizations, closing community health and poison control centers, mandating that the IRS investigate the source of any and all funds that pay for abortions, redefine the term "rape" so that only "violent" rapes can be paid for with HSA or FSAs, etc, etc, etc.

Did you vote for him? Are you going to vote for him again?


I just got back to Montana in January of 2009 so I haven't had the opportunity to vote for a senator or congressman so far. I don't know who I'll vote for when I do get the opportunity.

Rehberg is just doing what his loudest constituents want though. What is happening in the Republican party right now should be a lesson to us all. People told me when I was talking about the Tea Party before the elections that these Tea Party candidates would be powerless freshmen and just be absorbed by the Washington machine and made to step into line. On the contrary, they are dictating things in Washington.

They might not be the most enlightened or pragmatic group, but they have shown the US that people who are passionate about their beliefs and willing to be activists can have a massive influence, even if they don't represent a majority. Instead of sitting back and mocking the Tea Party as a bunch of rednecks, liberals should be copying their methods if you ask me.

I think that the 2012 presidential election will be very interesting. Obama has largely been a disappointment, everyone hates both sides of congress, the Republicans have no compelling candidates (by this time in 2007 all the major candidates had declared their candidacy and started their campaigns). I think it's a real opportunity for a real leader to emerge as a third party centrist and maybe break the hold that the R's and D's have on the country. I have no idea who it might be, but I think it's something we really need as a country. In order for it to happen though, we need people to stop thinking of the R's and D's as the good guys and the bad guys and instead think a little more independently. I'll close with a cynical quote from Terry Pratchett.

'I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides.'
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
have to agree with Levi, both parties suck IMO...
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Posted by Maryann McDaniel (+260) 10 years ago
I think you are not reading the legislation. First of all, this is a food stamp program, not a transportation program, etc. The funds on the EBT debit card are not intended to be used for anything but food, hence the restriction on using it as a debit card to obtain cash to buy alcohol and drugs, etc.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1903) 10 years ago
You know, Levi. I was wrong to jump on this one. But considering the "pure genius" emanating from Montana's own legislative session, it seemed completely believable.
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Posted by Jeff Denton (+762) 10 years ago
This has been interesting. It reminds me of a junior high school psychology experiment. Except it began with a bizarre spin on a one-sided right wing opinion mistaken for a news report. Then augmented by posters who didn't even read it. Hilarious, and I like where it went from there. Levi, I'd buy you a beer any day.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
Well Jeff, I know you've been in MT for a while: did YOU vote for Denny Rehburg? If yes, then would you mind telling us exactly which part of his voting record are you most proud?
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
Good Morning...Just now listening to the "Voices of Montana". It gives you a perspective of one side of issues. The nice thing about the Topic comments, you can catch two sides. Just an observation.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
It wasn't "made up," it was mis-interpreted. And I, for one, am glad to know it was incorrect. They also need to proofread their site. I believe them meant "lead," as in the lead of the story. I have no idea what "lede" is supposed to mean.

The sad thing is the original error sounded believable based on some recent action by extremist legislators. Most of us should have thought, naw, that can't be right. No one is that mean and stupid. Sadly, I believed because there do seem to be legislators who are that mean and stupid and blame the working poor for being working poor.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
lede
c.1965, alternative spelling of lead in the newspaper journalism sense (see lead (v.)), used to distinguish this sense from other possible meanings of the word, perhaps especially the molten lead used in typesetting machines.

http://dictionary.referen...rowse/lede
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
Huh. Never ran into before. I guess it's more fashionable or upscale or something.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
Since I do not know how to get a Topic started, is it okay to mention here that it would be great for ALL to see the Film Festival Movie..."Made In Dagenham" that will be showing at our local theatre on Thursday??? It would give perspective to some of the sessions:-)
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
The buttons at the top of the page include, second from the left, Forums. Click that button and it brings you to the list of available forums. Pick the one that best fits the topic. Click on that. At the very top of the list of current threads is a sentence that says [Post a new topic.] Click on that a voila!
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
Thank you so much, Amorette. Kind of you!!!
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
Bill--
"Sounds like class warfare to me. Oh, no. Wait. Class warfare only happens when the poor want to damage the rich. When the rich want to damage the poor, that is called pragmatism."

Instead of pragmatism try patriotism.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
I'm not saying you made it up. But someone did. Just like those ridiculous moveon.org lists about some local Republican dog catchers in Maryland or whatever they can dig up for their outrage du jour.

There's so much garbage floating around on political blogs that it's almost not worth talking about anymore. Definitely not worth taking at face value anyway. Especially when it comes to what other states' legislatures are doing. Who really has the time to keep up with that?

Anyway, back to the topic of Rich vs Poor, this was pretty interesting

http://www.taxfoundation....27134.html
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
moveon. That's so cute.

A show of hands please. Does anyone besides Rick still care about moveon?

Perhaps it's time to... move on.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
Maybe Michael Moore-on?
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Posted by Bob L. (+5105) 10 years ago
Poor Rickenhawk. If it wasn't for Government regulations and taxes, I'm sure you'd be wildly successful...keep telling yourself that, little feller!
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
You might want to spread the word, Bridgier.

http://milescity.com/foru...673#182121
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Posted by aaron bruce (+203) 10 years ago
i wonder who gave the government the right to take money from someone of means and give it to someone with need?? isnt that theft? and lets look at the fuel prices, heck if bush was in office all you libs would be freakin out..and have you seen food prices? sounds like no matter what repubs do the dems are doing their best to starve out and keep the poor from driving..but since it is obama screwing the poor every day over a can of corn and a gallon of gas it is ok isnt it amorette...and if you want that damn laundry building to be kept as a historical monument, then take your own hard earned money amorette and buy the thing, finance it and pay the taxes on it... other wise you should stop getting pissed over what someone does with their personal property.
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
Ha Ha, that really got you going didn't it Rick? I'll round up some more for you.

By the way Rick I am going to Helena on the first if you would like to go along and hear directly from working class people- I have an extra seat and I will pay for the gas.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
I'm not sure if this is funny or sad

http://iowahawk.typepad.c...a-day.html

Especially this part

1:00 PM February 10
Okay, it's time to stop messing around. Athletes aren't the only ones greedily raking it in. What about America's rich - those fancy pants fat cats living the high life in the above-$250,000 income bracket? According to IRS statistics, these 1.93% of US households are hogging 25% of US income. And why do they need it? For crying out loud, they probably stole it anyway. I say let's take 100% of every penny they make above $250,000. They can use the rest to pay their state and local taxes. Now we're talking big bucks, brother. How much? Let's see...



A: Number of US households: 116,000,000
B: Average US household income: $68,000 (median = $52,000)
C: Total US household income (A * B): $7.89 trillion
D: Percent of households above $250k income: 1.93%
E: Number of households above $250k income (A*D): 2,238,800
F: Percent of national income earned by households making $250k or more = 25%
G: Total income of households making $250k or more (C*F): $1.97 trillion
H: Total income of households in excess of $250k (G - E*$250,000) = $1.412 trillion


So if you took every penny of income from people making $250k and up, we'd still be running a deficit in the hundreds of billions. 'Tax the Rich' ain't gonna cut it this time.

What are you going to Helena for, Stone? Don't think I could do the first, even if you weren't being sarcastic

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (3/22/2011)]
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
Rick, since you liked those tidbits so well I am bringing you some more digest them and get back to me.

""Elections have consequences and so does the unpopular anti-worker legislation being rammed through by many governors and state legislators. In today's edition of the Battleground Bulletin, we find that Wisconsin's Scott Walker is not the only Midwestern governor facing a precipitous decline in public support."

Buyers' Remorse For Michigan and Ohio Residents

A PPP poll released on Tuesday shows that only 33% of Michigan voters approve of the job that Governor Rick Snyder is doing. The survey also found that if the 2010 governor's race were held today, Snyder would lose to Democrat Virg Bernero by two points. This is remarkable, considering that Snyder won the election in November by more than 18 points. The poll also finds that only 32% of voters approve of the recently passed Emergency Financial Act, which would allow the state to void union contracts and remove elected officials. Additionally, the poll found that 59% of Michigan residents support collective bargaining rights for public service workers.

Ohio Governor John Kasich is facing a similar decline in support according to a recent Quinnipiac University poll showing that a scant 30% of Ohioans approve of the job that he is doing. The same poll found that 54% of Ohioans oppose efforts to strip public service workers of their collective bargaining rights.

In Wisconsin, the recall campaign of eight Republican Senators is in full swing as AFSCME members continue to work as part of a thousands-strong volunteer army gathering signatures. Nothing can stop this effort, despite the desperate efforts of our opponents, like the River Falls man who stole a batch of recall petitions from a group of volunteers in front of a grocery store.

Phil Pfuehler, "River Falls Journal", 3/22/2011

Maine Governor, Paul LePage has ordered the removal of a 36 foot wide mural at the state Department of Labor building depicting the state's labor history. LePage claimed that his decision came after several members of the public complained about the mural, as well as an anonymous fax which described the mural as reminding them of "communist North Korea where they use these murals to brainwash the masses."

Quote of the Day

"If you have any questions, don't hesitate to send me, I don't have e-mail. It's easier if I never get e-mailed. I get embarrassed by it that way. It's not as easy to communicate." -- Florida Governor Rick Scott on Tuesday, urging a group of 200 state workers at the Department of Elder Affairs to send him snail mail rather than trying to reach him electronically.

In one of the most petty acts in the recent wave of anti-worker attacks from Republican governors and legislatures, Maine Gov. Paul LePage has ordered the removal of a 36-foot mural depicting the state's labor history from the Department of Labor. On top of that, he is removing the names of renowned labor leaders from the department's conference rooms because both the mural and room names "go against the department's pro-business goals."

Support Workers' Mobilization with We Are One Pins and Buttons

On Strike? Republicans Don't Want Your Family to Eat

Here's What Happens When Manufacturing Disappears

Tell Your Senators to Support the Social Security Protection Amendment

Global Unions Condemn Proposed Anti-Worker Laws in Mexico

Report: Want Better Schools? Put a Higher Value on Teachers
Former Massey 'Foreman' Charged in Upper Big Branch Probe

We should be trying to put Americans back to work, not trying to put public radio out of business.

Attacking labor unions.waging war on women's rights.defunding NPR...repealing health care reform. The anti-worker, anti-woman, anti-Obama Republican agenda just proves that their priorities are seriously out of whack. How is any of this supposed to create jobs?

Senate Democrats are fighting back each and every day. But with only a slim four-seat majority, we have no margin for error. If Republicans can knock just a few bricks free from our firewall, they'll force through their extreme agenda faster than you can say "Koch brothers."
Your purchase of a We Are One lapel pin or button will support the state mobilizations for working families. It's a simple way to help--and you can wear your support with pride.

Order by midnight Friday to have your We Are One button or pin in time for the April 4 national day of solidarity:

All but the actual cost of your pin or button will be a donation to support worker-driven mobilization efforts across the country.

In more than a dozen states, working families are coming together to face down attacks on good jobs and the right to bargain for a middle-class life. You've seen it in Wisconsin, where more than 100,000 people flooded the Capitol in Madison multiple times. You've seen it in Indiana, where protests against anti-worker legislation have continued for a month--and as a result, we're winning on many issues. And in Ohio. And in plenty of other places.

Whether you were directly involved in worker uprisings or not, you are a part of our movement. These huge efforts were made possible because of the solidarity of people like you, acting together.

We need your help to keep our movement going and growing. We'll keep giving you opportunities to do it--we hope you'll take us up on those opportunities as much as you can, and also find ways to get involved in your own way.

One way you can show your friends and neighbors that you're part of the nationwide movement for good jobs and workers' rights is by purchasing a We Are One lapel pin or button:

You'll be able to wear your support with pride, and it will help us grow our movement--all but the actual cost of your pin or button will be a donation to support massive mobilization efforts by workers who are fighting for their freedom to bargain for a better life.

To receive your order by April 4, the nationwide "We Are One" solidarity day, be sure you place your order by midnight Friday.

Order your lapel pin or button now:

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated on April 4, 1968, in Memphis, Tenn., where he was helping AFSCME's sanitation workers gain a voice at work and the right to bargain to realize their dream of a better life.

As you know, the right to bargain collectively for a voice at work and a middle-class life are under attack as never before.

So we're combating these new threats with unprecedented solidarity. On April 4, and on the days surrounding it, working families across the country will be organizing numerous solidarity actions. Together, we'll stand with working people in Wisconsin and dozens of other states where corporate-bought politicians are trying to take away the rights for which Dr. King gave his life.

Order your lapel pin or button by midnight Friday and get it in time to wear with pride on our April 4 national day of solidarity:

We'll be in touch shortly about how you can get involved on April 4. But we don't want you to miss the opportunity to get a "We Are One" button or lapel pin in time for our day of solidarity.

Act now: Your purchase of a union-made pin or button will support ongoing worker-led mobilizations for good jobs and workers' rights:

All but the actual cost of your "We Are One" button or pin will be a donation to support massive mobilization efforts workers are leading around the country.

For just $15 (plus shipping and handling), you can receive a classy union-made-in-America 1" x 1ΒΌ" We Are One lapel pin--and $12.95 of that will be used to support mobilization efforts for workers who are fighting against attacks on working families in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio and other states. Or for just $10 (plus shipping and handling), you can receive a bold 2" x 3" lapel button and contribute $9.43. Of course, the more buttons and pins you buy, the more you'll help.

Order by midnight Friday. You'll be supporting worker-led mobilizations across the country and you'll receive your lapel pin or button in time to wear it with pride.

With attacks on the rights of public employees growing, the 7,500-member Montana Public Employees Association (MPEA) will affiliate with the national AFL-CIO and Montana State AFL-CIO. The solidarity will mean "a stronger voice for our members and for all workers in the state of Montana," says MPEA Executive Director Quinton Nyman.

Momentum Builds for Triangle Commemoration

First Anniversary Approaches for Health Care Reform Law

New Hire Shows Wisconsin's Not That Broke

Republican Budget Cuts Would Cripple NLRB

Brazilian Workers Back U.S. Public Employees
Merger of AT&T and T-Mobile Good for Consumers, Workers

Retirees to Wisconsin: Thank You for Inspiring Us""
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
To balance the budget, we will have to RAISE taxes and make cuts in the big budget programs like the military and revise Social Security and Medicare. Pretending we don't need taxes increased and the big items cut is foolish. We can't balance the budget by starving the poor alone.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
The book, "Prophets of War: Lockheed Martin and the Making of the Military Industrial Complex" by Wm. D. Hartung, really gives a slant on where major savings could be made. Sec. Gates made a tiny bit of headway...but, there is so much more. Kind of makes you sick.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
Heh, great.

I post something about the cataclysmic scale of our budget situation. You post lists of evidence that "at least Fiddlin' while Rome Burns still polls well!"

I'm afraid at this point all the more reasonable States in the country will be able to do is try to build up enough of a firewall in Congress so we can turn away the leftopian Californias and Michigans and Illinoiseses when they come looking for their bailout.
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Posted by Jeri Dalbec (+3209) 10 years ago
Rick...I think it might be the Venus/Mars thing!!! Some folks call it "jump-shifting" and, it could very well be:-) I enjoy all of the view points. A lot of very smart people.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
Actually I was talking at Stone. Probably should've said so.
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