This is why you shouldn't buy a Mac.

http://thenextweb.com/app.../mac01.jpg

In my experience, they know all this and they don't care. They believe that their computer is somehow so superior that it's worth paying 2-3 times as much as an identical computer running windows would cost. The most amazing thing to me is that people at my former job would buy mac computers and then install windows on them, basically paying double the price for a pretty box. You have to hand it to Apple, they know how to make money.

Just for fun, I went to apple.com and specced out a single processor mac pro with every option (no software or accessories). It's only $10,000.

Where were you pricing that computer? Mac Pro starts at $2,500, iMacs at $1,199 and Minis at $699. from Apple, less if you get them from a distributer like MacMall.

I said I did it at apple.com and selected every possible upgrade to the computer itself (SSD + 3 2TB drives, dual 27" monitors, 32G of ram, etc.) It's not a computer that a normal person would buy. But still, $2500 is outrageous for a computer. You could get a windows machine with the same specs as the basic Mac Pro for less than half that price.

Yes, but it would be a Windoze machine, susceptible to viruses and whatever awful upgrade Microsquash comes up with.

lol what is with the bandwagonny crap of changing product names to something "clever and funny and insulting" ? The play on words for brand names is old..just my opinion...

on topic:

Viruses and all that can be avoided easily... and if you happen to come across one.. it doesnt really take much to fix it.. ten minutes tops? ill pay 499 - 899 for a pc or laptop compared to 2500 for a Mac for ten minutes... or maybe I wont have to spend ANY time cleaning the computer if I make sure I am running the latest patches and updates (these can be done while you are sleeping)

As for graphics (cuz mac owners will mention the graphics stuff).. Photoshop on my tower and my laptop works just fine

on topic 2: man those prices are crazy... really... anyone in Miles City willing to pay that much? and what is the justification?

In the interest of complete disclosure, the $2500 macbook pro is the top end model with a 17" screen. The 13" screen starts at $1200 and the 15" at $1800.

The reason to spend more money is simple... significantly increased productivity. Yes, you can go to Wally world and buy a Windoze machine for $600. You'll get what you pay for. If you spec out a Lenovo similar to a macbook pro, you will pay about the same price for the Lenovo as for the Macbook Pro.

Since 1990 I have own 9 laptops, 7 Windoze machines and 2 Macbook Pros. I have never received more than 18 months of life out of any windoze machine. They are all on the ash-heap of laptop history. The two mac laptops are still in use. They are both used 9 hours per day. One of them is 5 years old.

Not having issues like getting the computer to join a wireless network, dealing with viruses, not dealing with stupid popups like cleaning up unused icons on the desktop, automatic updates that install very slowly and require a half-hour of install time followed by a complete reboot, etc all add up to a superior computing experience. The mac OS is pretty bullet-proof. There simply are not the issues that one will have with a Windoze machine.

Windoze users like to point out the cheaper cost, but you really need to separate cost from value. Even though the mac may cost more, it is a superior value when you consider the much longer machine life and the hours working rather than dealing with PC IT issues.

[This message has been edited by Dark Beer (3/14/2011)]

Productivity?

You must write poetry.

In the interest of full disclosure, Macs are less susceptible to viruses because virus writers don't want to take their time to write viruses for 1% of operating systems. Macs are also generally useless in the business place because software is not ported for use with them.

A Windows machine will last until the next OS arrives, you will have to perform regular maintenance - I recommend a complete wipe at least once a year. I used a $400 Compaq until the hard drive crapped out. I didn't even bother getting a new machine when Vista arrived (wise decision), now I have a complete monster with Windows 7. As we move toward the server side computing, I may never have to perform another hardware upgrade.

I'm sure Macs have their advantages, those just don't happen to be affordability or flexibility.

Not having issues like getting the computer to join a wireless network, dealing with viruses, not dealing with stupid popups like cleaning up unused icons on the desktop, automatic updates that install very slowly and require a half-hour of install time followed by a complete reboot, etc all add up to a superior computing experience. The mac OS is pretty bullet-proof. There simply are not the issues that one will have with a Windoze machine.

Have you used a windows machine in the last 5-8 years? This stuff you're talking about is ancient history. I'm typing this on a 6 year old desktop running XP. It hasn't had a virus in at least 3 years despite the fact that I have never spent a dime on virus protection, the "stupid popups" were from Windows 95/98 (read not this decade or the one before it) and the updates are done while I sleep with no input from me except for a message saying it was updated the next morning. My 5 year old gateway laptop needs a new cooling fan, but otherwise works fine. My Win 7 machines are much better than these two.

Buck,

I think with Win7 you aren't going to have any reason to reformat yearly. Even XP is very solid now. I won't deny that Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, etc. were crap. They were. XP was decent when it came out and with updates became very solid. Win7 is completely bulletproof. The fact that service pack 1 is coming out now and I have no idea what's in it nor do I care is a testament to the fact that there is really no major issues with it.

I'm just a firm believer in installing all sort of crap and then uninstalling it and the adding new crap. Eventually it's a good idea to at least run some defragmentation. My own personal opinion: nothing runs like a fresh install.

Levi Forman wrote:

I won't deny that Windows 3.1, 95, 98, ME, etc. were crap. They were.

Hey hey now, I actually wrote some of that crap. Little bits of 3x and 95 stuff, but yeah, you're right -- they were crap. I'm embarrassed about that part. W7, as you mentioned though, is actually rock solid.

Hehe, well "crap" is probably a strong word. I did manage to use them for many years. Let's just say that they had all the issues that Richard mentioned plus they crashed a lot back then .

18 months of life from your laptops or desktops?

holy crap.. what a waste of money.. I am writing this on a 2 year old dell laptop that I spent a bit more for cuz I wanted to have a dedicated video card... and.... its.still.running!

AND... I can still use the whole adobe cs5 suite on it and it still likes me when I start it up..

my home desktop is FIVE years old running vista and it is STILL in top notch running condition.. only had to replace the power supply last year...

Computers, in my opinion, will last as long as determined of how much crap people do TO them and how crap is used ON them...

"ooo gotta tweak this, gotta tweak that" too much of that stuff and that computer will be declared crap and put to the side... I see that a lot...

leave the computer alone, keep it clean both hardware and software wise and you can enjoy the computer for a long time...

but I just ranting here...

^^ which reminds me... time to shop the dell outlet store again.. feeling the itch for a new computer lol... or maybe I wait a couple of more years

[This message has been edited by SeptyTwo (3/14/2011)]

Macs are also generally useless in the business place because software is not ported for use with them.

Absolute BS.

MS Office works very well on the Mac and the files can be read by either OS. I am running XP on a virtual machine and it is always needing to update some security thing the same way it did when I used PC's.

[This message has been edited by Dark Beer (3/14/2011)]

Im running a 5 year old acer, windows xp media, with a 3 year old nvidia graphics card with 2 17in monitors and it is still running good, can run photoshop with ease, edit video, and do a little gaming. I have never had any problems with it, and have never had a virus.

Great for you JoshMT. Want a cookie?

Just because YOU can use that hardware, doesn't mean everyone else in the world can. Macs are much easier to use, and especially for people who don't understand how to use a computer well.

Also, most people don't understand that clicking on the "You've won a free iPod" banner can give you a virus. The majority of users will click on it, thinking they are awesome and are being rewarded with an iPod. In reality, they aren't. If they use windows, a virus is their prize. If they are on mac os, they get a exe file in the downloads, which cannot be used.

Your "Don't get a mac" logic is solid to some users, but to others, it sounds plain stupid.

Well, there are a lot of programs other than MS Office in the business world but I think Macs are fine in most corporate environments now. At my former job the IT people hated them just because it was another headache but the fact that you can dual boot them with Windows now pretty much takes care of any incompatibility issues. My only complaint is the price.

The increased popularity of apples may be it's downfall in the "susceptible to viruses" area. Look up the Pwn2Own contests. Apples are always the easiest to hack since they haven't been fighting with the hackers for the last 20 years to find all of their vulnerabilities. If people ever do start writing viruses specifically for OS 10 it might be kind of ugly.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (3/14/2011)]

when i said "This is why you shouldn't buy a Mac" i was being sarcastic and thought some people would get a laugh out of this.

I have a friend who does IT support for NASA. Yes, that NASA. They decided, in the hive mind way of government agencies, to dump all the Macs and go for straight Windoze. The tech people pointed out that all the software that tracks all that junk in space was programmed for and runs only on Macs.

That aside, she is the only Mac support for 400 Macs and they have ten Windoze supports for that same number of Windoze machines. She is also certified for Windoze and spends most of her time on those machines because they cause more problems. These are high security systems run by actual rocket scientists so it is not just viruses that cause the problems.

If you are in publishing or photography or a graphics-based industry, Macs are the standards. For crunching numbers in accounting or other dull stuff, well, then you use the dull machines.

Heeheehee.

Ok we've beat around the bush long enough, let's just get to the real issue here concerning this thread.
Bill Gates stole the idea for "Windows" from Steve Jobs. Discuss

hehehe

Yeah macs are good for photos and video, but for the engineering field that advances technology PCs are the way they go. correct me if i am mistaken.

I use Macs for many reasons (affordability isn't one of them) but more than any other reason is simply that I like them better. I prefer OSX to Windows. The software crossover has getten much better in recent years, even Autodesk products have Mac versions now. Using hardware and software made by the same company does yield some benefits.

I am not a Mac snob at all though. I see the value in many Windows machines, but for my purposes, that value is irrelevent. I am faster at most tasks on a Mac. Word, Excel, Powerpoint, MSN Messenger, etc all work fine on our Macs. I've used PCs and Macs on a network together with few issues. I actually find the Apple routers much easier to set up and maintain than the Linksys or other PC oriented brands, and the ability to use the router to stream music throughout my house is nice too.

I'm not arguing for Macs for everyone but I personally prefer them in most areas. Buying a Mac to run Windows seems silly to me but the fact that my Mac can run Windows as well as any other computer is nice because the Mac version of soulseek p2p software sucks. In most other areas the Macs win hands down...their desktops are nice but the Mac laptops are just a pleasure to own and work with. I spend most of my time using my machines instead of fiddling with them. I've also experienced far less system component breakdowns with the Apple machines compared to the Dells, Gateways, Emachines, etc I've worked with.

Just my experience in almost 20 years of computing and over 10 years of video editing, both linear and nonlinear, and a lot of $ spent on many types of systems, both mine and other peoples'.

8 core Mac Pro
Xserve Raid 3.5TB & 7TB
MacBook
Powerbook G4
Powermac G5
Final Cut Studio 2
Adobe CS2

Yeah, the downsides of both platforms have been more or less eliminated and it's just a matter of personal preference now. What is outrageous to me is that Apple can still sell computers at double or triple the price of an equivalent PC.

It's the marketing success story of the century. I know that there are some universities that REQUIRE Apple, and my cousins who are high school/college age and have never used a mac in their lives convinced their mother that they "needed" macbook pros for college instead of a PC laptop. They tried to get me to back them up on this, which didn't work and I could only shake my head when my aunt told me she bought the macs. If I was sending a kid off to college today I would offer them a $500 acer laptop and tell them if they want a macbook pro they could come up with the other $1000 themselves.

An Acer with the OS freshly installed. The bloatware is worth the cost savings.

I bought my 8 core off Ebay and put additional drives, memory, etc in myself, saved a bunch. After spending major dough on the quad G5 I promised myself I'd do whatever upgrades I could on my own. I also bought a super cheap bare bones Xserve Raid with junk drives off Ebay and then put Seagate 500 or 750GB drives in afterwards using the Apple Drive Module converter off the old drives, saving hundreds per drive and getting the same performance.

You just gotta get your hands dirty to make them affordable. They're not for everyone.

Wow.. I have to reply to this one.

To be fair, I went on Apple.com to price one out. It was a "holy crap!" moment for me when I seen the total. This is just basics for $3499.

-Processor:
-Two 2.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon "Westmere" (8 cores) (comes with)

What.. No Sandy Bridge processor combo yet? I mean they've only been out for a few months now.

-Memory:
-1066MHz or 1333MHz DDR3 ECC SDRAM
-6GB (6X1GB)
-8GB (4X2GB) [Add $150.00]
-12GB (6X2GB) [Add $450.00]
-16GB (8x2GB) [Add $750.00]

So.. 2GB costs $150 and 4GB costs $450? Why don't they do a 4x4GB so you can upgrade in the future without having to waste the old DIMMs?

-Hard Drives:
-2TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s hard drive [Add $300.00]

So, a last generation hard drive costs $300 and a new 6Gb/s Enterprise-class drive costs $200. Hmm.

-Video Card:
-ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB (comes with)

Yep.. Last year's card. Why not just get either an nVidia GeForce GTX 590 or an ATI Radeon HD 6990?

-DVD Burner:
-18x SuperDrive (comes with)

So, you can burn DVDs but it doesn't come with an option for a BD-RW drive on this "high-end" system? Especially when BD-RW drives are around $100.

-Display:
-Optional Apple LED Cinema Display (27" flat panel) [Add $999.00]

A bit much, but I haven't seen a display that can spit out 2560x1440 resolution yet. I'm still looking, though.

[This message has been edited by James Shaw (5/8/2011)]

It really isn't so much about hardware as it is about the entire ecosystem of connectivity. Yes, that ecosystem costs a little more than a PC. But if you value your time the additional investment is worthwhile. There is a difference between cost and value. A PC person that has never used a mac telling people how bad macs are, is like you giving directions back from someplace you have never been.

Earlier I saw that 3.3k Mac so I configured mostly identical hardware on Newegg just for fun. I think it came out to about $1600. Guess that means Apple values their OS at almost $2k. oh but I forgot about the price of that logo

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (5/8/2011)]

I've never heard someone bitch about how their new Mac wasn't worth the money. Most people love them and never look back at the cost difference. The time spent maintaining a PC is waste, especially when I'm charging $35/hr to edit or design something for a client. The Macs are just simple...and yes simply expensive as well. But as I stated in my previous posts I'm not a Mac snob and one has to purchase memory elsewhere to get a decent deal. Don't buy extra hard drives from Apple either. For some folks a PC really is a better choice, it depends on how you use your machine(s).

Having hardware and software that are manufactured for one another is precious in itself because when you do have those few issues that arise they are easy to isolate and get documentation on, meaning less downtime (or fiddling time like with PCs). I can always find an answer to my Mac questions quickly and without much frustration. The OSX software is also very quick and rarely hesitates. I'll take the occasional spinning beachball of death over the frozen PC screen any day. Updating software on the Mac is far easier as well.

And as far as the Mac displays are concerned they ARE overpriced and yet I am extremely satisfied with the quality of the image and how easy on my eyes they are. Editing video can blind a person after so long and Chief Arcitect (ran with Bootcamp on Windows) is also a chore to look at for long periods with a weak display. The vibrant yet accurate colors I can achieve with my cinema displays is worth the dough. 4 years later my displays look the same as when they were new.

I just flat out love my Macs and don't feel the need to desecrate Windows to enjoy that feeling of satisfaction I get from them. Both have pros and cons. One con of the Mac is price. One pro is simplicity. It goes on and on whichever side you're on. If you prefer Windows/PCs then why spend so much time checking out Mac stuff and whining about their cost if you've never even spent the money on one? Do you try to convince a Corvette owner they should have bought a Taurus?

I saw a girl talking on an iPhone yesterday and she had a case on it with a hole cut in the back to show the apple logo. To me there are only two reasons you would do that: 1) Because you are an elitist or 2) Because you are indoctrinated. Either way it doesn't look good from the outside looking in .

Levi: Please don't talk about my wife like that...

The brand thing is no different than people being loyal to Ford or Chevy. Car bras with cutouts for logos comes to mind. Yes, Apple is proud of their brand, and the people that make the case support that as well, their bread and butter.

I am an Apple guy, looking at our third major purchase. It is what it is, if you don't like it, why waste time hating it?

I have happily ignored windows now for almost 4 years.

Do you try to convince a Corvette owner they should have bought a Taurus?

Not sure about that analogy. If we found out that the Taurus and Corvette had the same engine, the same suspension, the same drive-train, you'd start wondering why people spend so much money for what amounts to a one-button nav system (that'll only let you drive on certain roads) and maybe some heated leather seats.

And then you find out you could put that same Nav system in the Taurus pretty easily, but the Corvette legal team tells you it's illegal for you to try it.

It's no accident that Microsoft lets you run Windows on Mac hardware, but Apple won't let OSX run on any hardware but their own. They make a lot of money letting people think buying an Apple makes them 'different' when in reality they're just selling PCs running Unix.

MT Zook - my thoughts exactly. I've had oodles of Apple machines and have no desire to own anything else. I don't need to argue about it; I just like what I like! I tried to make myself like Windows years ago, but I just couldn't do it. (Same goes for cilantro!) I have a MacBook Pro which I plan to replace as soon as the new MacBook Pros are released, and I have an iPod Touch, iPad and iPhone. I love that they all work seamlessly together and simplify my life. My husband and kids all use Macs and other Apple products too. I love that I can jump on my iPad (or laptop or phone) and see my kids' Powerschool info there. With MobileMe, everything syncs wirelessly so an appointment I put into one device gets pushed to all the others. I can't say strongly enough how much just *this* feature helps me stay on top of my large family's "stuff."

I also love our Apple TVs, which through Home Sharing, allow us to stream music, photos and videos from any of our Macs/iPods, and give us access to Netflix (and many other online media sources). We can use AirPlay to shoot media we are watching on a computer or laptop to our TVs. Its awesome.

I wouldn't have the first clue how to do any of this stuff with Windows. Presumably it would be possible, but I can't see any reason to change what works so well for us already. Sure, I wish Macs were less expensive, but any cheapo Windows machines I've been forced to use for various reasons have left me unimpressed.

I don't get angry about people that like macs, I just react like I would if I saw a friend getting involved in a cult, or falling for a ponzi scheme. I just feel like I should point out that they're paying 3 times as much for a computer as everyone else is and what they're getting in return MAY be mostly based on marketing .

Enjoy hulu worldmom. You've been had.

The Corvette/Taurus analogy was a bad one. Either way you can see all I'm saying is that if people like the "ecosystem", as Richard put it, of Macs, then the price becomes less relevant as simplicity, functionality, and conservation of time and frustration become more of a concern.

If I were a gamer I'd buy a PC. If I worked in a PC, networked environment or needed a cheap computer to do basic stuff that fit in with what was around me in Eastern MT I'd buy a PC. If I had more time and flexibility in my computer oriented workflows and less money I'd put together a cheap Unix machine.

If it were me in my current situation, I'd stick with Macs as they've saved me whatever they've costed me (in the difference) and I can run my Windows based Chief Arcitect, Soulseek, etc all on one computer, meaning everything has a fiber connection directly to my Xserve Raid (also an overpriced item that has been a treat to own) and my music is availabe wirelessly to stereos on each floor through the two routers I use which are super easy to configure and share printers for me on the same network.

I'm not pro Mac except when choosing for myself. Nor do I have any animosity towards Microsoft. I am simply arguing that the cost difference isn't for inflated hardware, it's for a preintegrated hardware/software workflow with a more user friendly experience that works for many people who don't feel cheated in the long run. You can't disregard that feature when comparing prices.

Apple has treated me well. The stuff just works and the computers are fun and easy to use.

If you knew what the hell you were talking about, you'd buy a PC. You can't do some very, very basic things with a Mac that are always possible with a PC or a Linux machine. It's a sweet package with an interface designed for people who don't want to have to learn a bunch of intricacies.

Exactly Buck, it does what I need it to do without constantly having to screw with it. I'm glad you got my point.

Then quit fooling yourself by saying you have flexibility you don't.

"If I had more time and flexibility in my computer oriented workflows..."

I stated that I lack flexibility. Why is this such an argument? I like my Macs, they've proven worth the dough. Get over it.

Because you think you have some important computing to do that no one else in Eastern MT would need. You bought a machine that does less then keep arguing it does more.

This is about the stupidest argument ever. PCs do some things better then Macs, Macs do somethings better then PCs. This is why NASA is about 1/3 Macs and 2/3 PCs.( stat. from a friend who works as tech support for NASA) The type you work on the most is the easiest to work with, you are familiar with it's short cuts and command system. Buy the type you like and let others get what they like. Your manhood does not have anything to do with the type of computer you or others use.

Hey now, we're not trying to rename Denton Field. You should have said, "Macs do some things better than PCs, PCs do some things Macs are entirely unable to do."

Buck, you're arguing with me because I said I liked a product I bought. I never made claims as to which system is better just what worked best for me and what situations would warrant a preference for one or another. I don't see the logic in polarizing every Mac/PC conversation into a winner-takes-all debate.

I don't have time to argue with silly people who inject bias and unnecessary comparisons into an honest review of products that I'm happy with. Especially if they haven't owned the product they're so quick to criticize. The time saved dumping the intricacies and buying into Apple's streamlined workflows saved me money. If you want to waste time ridiculing me for liking a product then go ahead but I'm done here.

Sorry you've been victimized. There was a website for victims, but they shut it down after danny got an A.

Sorry you've been victimized. There was a website for victims, but they shut it down after danny got an A.

...using a PC no doubt.

I'll give you that, we've seen what the Mac has done for Rath.

"I also love our Apple TVs, which through Home Sharing, allow us to stream music, photos and videos from any of our Macs/iPods, and give us access to Netflix (and many other online media sources). We can use AirPlay to shoot media we are watching on a computer or laptop to our TVs. Its awesome."

Um.. Home Sharing? I do that with all the Xbox's I have running XBMC. They are in turn connected to a 5.5TB fileserver (Gentoo-powered). Cost to me? Just about 10 minutes of my time (softmod, then install XBMC).

As for Netflix.. Anything can run that. We do on our Xbox 360, Wii, and our HTPC (running Win7). We also have a Ceton InfiniTV card installed and runs rather decent along with 2x HDHomerun Dual boxes. The Ceton handles the CableTV while the HDHomerun boxes handle the OTA.

Now.. if DirecTV or Dish Network would put out a card. I doubt it, though.

I tell my students to be "bilingual" to be competitive in the work environment. You don't want to tell a prospective boss when they sit you down that you "hate" Mac or PC.

I prefer my Mac, but that is what I learned on and I like the artistic functionality of the Mac, but I have found some features I like in Microsoft software.

Ultimately, can't we all just get along?

(BTW) Macs speaks PC, but PCs don't easily speak Mac, maybe we get along better.

(BTW) Macs speaks PC, but PCs don't easily speak Mac, maybe we get along better. big grin

dumb

Oh, you can create a Hackintosh, but you would be violating Apple's TOS agreement.

But some people don't really care, and you can customize and tweak it how you want and have custom components installed.

Heck, Apple even throws a fit when you install OS X in a Virtual Machine.

Pfft they charge so dang much because of the name "apple" I don't know why people think the "apple" brand is such a great thing. The ipod is about the only product apple made worth anything, even these are over priced.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/T....religion/

Hah, I heard about this on a podcast this morning and was coming here to post it .

I try to refrain from this debate (note that this is my firstpost in this thread), but after spending an hour surfing the internet just trying to figure out why my iPod won't accept the playlists I have set up on iTunes, I have come to the realization that all Apple products are a phenominal piece of overpriced crap.

after spending an hour surfing the internet just trying to figure out why my iPod won't accept the playlists I have set up on iTunes,

Funny you say this... as I write this I have an 8th grader whining about the very same issue.

Just a bit of friendly advice on the iTunes problem. When was the last time you ran the Software Update under the top apple symbol? I know I had an Itunes update last week I think. If you have one run it again until there is non. If one needs to be installed before another, the second will not show up until first is installed. May not help at all but worth a try and sense it is only checking Apple for updates it can't hurt.

http://latimesblogs.latim...pad-2.html

Holy kwap... this thread is actually happening.

I thought this was amusing.

I think from the graph we should conclude that the Mac is greener technology.

Based on the problems the Microsoft users have at the Star with crashes and viruses, I think there are other advantages to the Mac. In publishing, Macs are THE standards. Period.

Which publishers? Amazon? Disney? Time Warner?

In regards to viruses ...

Apple Removes Boast That OS X 'Doesn't Get PC Viruses'
http://www.huffingtonpost...25110.html

Widespread Virus Proves Macs Are No Longer Safe From Hackers
http://bits.blogs.nytimes...nger-safe/

600,000+ Macs are in this botnet, including 274 in Cupertino
http://nakedsecurity.soph...a-exploit/

Publishers like the MC Star.... that are not likely even using OS X.

Based on the problems the Microsoft users have at the Star with crashes and viruses, I think there are other advantages to the Mac.

The only way I buy this is if your "Microsoft users" are using 8 year old machines that haven't been updated. I have 2 XP machines and 3 win7 machines and none of them crash. I have personally never seen win7 crash and I haven't had a virus in many years despite being fairly reckless with my internet behavior. Most of the advantages of OSX over Windows are from 10 years ago and no longer exist but the Mac snobs are still holding onto them.

Our family desktop computer is 9 years old, running Windows XP Pro, has never been reformatted/clean installed, has never had a virus, runs and is connected to the Internet 7x24, and is used daily including by my wife and kids. The only problem we've ever had with the PC is a dead CD-ROM drive, which was a hardware failure and not a software failure.