What would Jesus cut??
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
Interesting food for thought...What say you??

http://religion.blogs.cnn...ut/?hpt=T2
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
I say it is good to be reminded that Christian and conservative are two different things.
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
Amen Brother!!!
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Posted by aaron bruce (+203) 10 years ago
what would jesus cut? he would cut all government, period. if you recall in the scriptures God argued against the institution of kings.
Jesus had ZEALOTS as deciples, and had much disdain for the political establishment...conservatives and christians are different, however there are more christian conservatives than progressive christians...progressive ideology is antibiblical and there fore anti christ.
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Posted by James Lynch (+205) 10 years ago
AMEN Bruce,

Can someone give me a biblical definition of the word "Christian"...??

Then can someone tell me what being a follower of Jesus Christ has to do with allowing political "hacks" (on both sides of the isle) to take over our democracy with a progressive system of thought that has been proven to be unsustainable throughout the history of the world??

Just curious...
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6175) 10 years ago
I wasn't aware that Jesus advocated any particular form of government. Can you cite some sources please?
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Posted by Steve Allison (+979) 10 years ago
I believe Jesus became the most upset when business and government became involved with the church. That was when he drove the money changers out. When asked about fallowing civil law He held out a coin and asked who's image was on it. When the questioner answered Caesar, Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesars and render unto God what is Gods. Yes we are suppose to carry his love in our hearts as we conduct our lives but Jesus never advocated changing the government to match his teachings.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17230) 10 years ago
OMG.....James Lynch is ROBOCARROT!!!!
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
"to take over our democracy with a progressive system"

By "OUR" political system do you mean white, male, landowners? Do you believe that "our" is exclusive to Christians? What does the Bible say about "all men are created equally"?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4459) 10 years ago
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA @Gunnar
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
So, we want a regressive system. How does that work? We keep going backward until we end up as slime mold?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
I'm not convinced that we should accept the premise of the question.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
It's questions like this that make me wonder: "What would Reinhold Neibuhr do?"
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3711) 10 years ago
Referring to the original link, that's a very interesting strategy and they definitely have a point.
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Posted by James Lynch (+205) 10 years ago
I am amazed, yet not one bit surprised, at how so many can attack me from all sides but never answer the original questions at hand...LOL

You folks (and you know who you are) are so phony, even to your own retoric...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
Can someone give me a biblical definition of the word "Christian"...??


1. One who is a follower of "The Way".

2. Has nothing to do with government spending, which is why the questions premise should be rejected.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (3/2/2011)]
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
biblical definition?? what the heck is that?? all I know is the conventional definition of Christian as being a follower of the teachings of Jesus...and what does that have to do with the price of eggs?? the question was simply taking the teachings of Jesus and asking what programs would he have approved of cutting...like the defense budget or the social welfare programs...I personally have always thought that if Jesus returned today he would be out there amoungst the poor and would resemble a hippie probably...doubt he would be associating with the CEO's of corporations...He probably wouldn't attend any organized religion either as most organized religions have an "us against them" attitude when it comes to their methods of worship...
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4459) 10 years ago
Biblical Christian = caucasian asshole

Wait, that would make me a Biblical Christian. I don't know, what's the answer great and wise grand dragon?

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (3/2/2011)]
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1903) 10 years ago
Jesus didn't cotton to hypocrites, Lynch.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
That article is terrible.

Two of the guys they mentioned are outright Obama shills. The other guy heads this organization...

http://www.bread.org/what-we-do/

I'm sorry but if your idea of charity begins with writing a letter to the gubmint instead of you know... getting off your %*$ and feeding the hungry, you have no business questioning the priorities of other people.
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Posted by James Lynch (+205) 10 years ago
No Jesus did not "cotton" to hipocrites and neither should the Lord's Church turn a blind eye to sin today as well. Jesus called it the way He saw it and was not timid when taking on the status quo like so many today who claim to be bearing His truth.

Political correctness has raised a generation of patsies who are not willing to "preach" the real "truth" (the root of our problem is sin, either our own actions or the result of others actions)...Jesus also would not be one who would "cotton" bad behaviour and not be willing to call sin for what it is...SIN.

Jesus did not "cotton" to false teachers either and took them on where they stood.

Jesus would not "cotton" to all the false doctrine that man has spent centuries perfecting that devides His church into fragments to the point that His true church can hardly be identified either.

I fully understand why people have a "bad taste" for organized religion...so do I...being a Christian is a relationship thing, not a religion thing...

Have a great day folks...
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
Rick Kuchynka wrote:
I'm sorry but if your idea of charity begins with writing a letter to the gubmint instead of you know... getting off your %*$ and feeding the hungry, you have no business questioning the priorities of other people.

OK. I'll bite. There are about 40 million people living in poverty in America today, about 1.7 billion world wide. These people are poor every day, not just at religious holidays when folks are feeling charitable. Assume we cut off all government spending to help them. After you get up off your %*S, just what are you going to do?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
Jesus may not "cotton"... but I wonder if he "polyesters" or maybe it's RAYON!
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Posted by Mary Bonine (+36) 10 years ago
He just FELT strongly about some things....
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1903) 10 years ago
There's nothing worse than falling into a Bonine pun-trap.
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Posted by Duncan Bonine (+287) 10 years ago
So THAT's what they mean by "a man of the cloth"!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
Bob Netherton II wrote:
There's nothing worse than falling into a Bonine pun-trap.

Bob, I'd suggest staying there would be worse.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6175) 10 years ago
Richard,

My condolences. I never knew what kind of home life you endured.
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Posted by Russell Bonine (+244) 10 years ago
Wendy Wilson wrote:
Richard,

My condolences. I never knew what kind of home life you endured.

To be sure... we were all pun-ished!

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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
Did you guys watch a lot of Rocky and Bullwinkle when you were kids?
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Posted by Russell Bonine (+244) 10 years ago
Amorette Allison wrote:
Did you guys watch a lot of Rocky and Bullwinkle when you were kids?

No, we did not have a tv for many years. Mother thought it was a peephole into hell.
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
Since all Bonines seem to be so adept at puns, I would guess that you played that game at home as children to see if you could outdo each other...
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+14948) 10 years ago
howdy wrote:
I would guess that you played that game at home as children to see if you could outdo each other...

You're not paying attention. The game is still being played.
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
True enough...Your family has to hold the championship title for sure...
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
Seems like there's some o-burlap on topics in this thread so I'm going to get back to the topic.

I can't believe I just said that.

anyway

Bill Freese wrote:
There are about 40 million people living in poverty in America today, about 1.7 billion world wide. These people are poor every day, not just at religious holidays when folks are feeling charitable. Assume we cut off all government spending to help them. After you get up off your %*S, just what are you going to do?

The way I look at it, Bill...Jesus, for the most part, wandered the backwoods of Israel, and his work with the poor focused as much as possible on person-to-person ministry. He believed helping the poor was very important, but even he knew there was no cure (at least on this side of the divide)

My take on your position would be that you'd think Jesus was kinda wasting his time on all that when he could've been in Rome bringing a list of grievances to Caesar on the poor's behalf.

But no matter what social program we bankrupt the country on choose, the poor will always be with us. Even Jesus said that much.

I believe Jesus thought Ministry was just as much about those ministering as those needing ministry. They are both personally fulfilling God's purpose, and neither part of that interaction (giving/receiving) is more important than the other. Jesus- as Son of God- choosing those personal interactions over magic-wand solutions, to me, was making a profound statement, when you really think about it.

So to sum up...

One... Christianity aside, I don't believe man is even capable of constructing a program to abolish poverty.

And Two... I don't believe Christians conscripting others to serve the poor on their behalf really fulfills God's call. That's not to say there still aren't good reasons for a government to help the poor in certain ways. But Christ has nothing to do with it.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (3/6/2011)]
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Posted by Duncan Bonine (+287) 10 years ago
Rick Kuchynka wrote:
I can't believe I just said that.

Rick the real humor is in resurrecting this thread...!
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
You good Christians have really opened my eyes on this one.

The poor suffer so that we will have the opportunity to minister to them individually. If we get together as a group and, through our government, try to alleviate their suffering in bunches, that denies us the opportunity to help them individually. Charity is not about the needs of the recipient, it is about the warm feeling the donor gets. Helping the poor with social programs robs the rich of their opportunity for personal spiritual growth.

And the fact that following this view also lowers your taxes, well, that is just a side benefit.
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
a ton of truth to that last posting Bill...a ton!!! The hypocrisy is amazing to me...

[This message has been edited by howdy (3/7/2011)]
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
I'd call myself many things, but 'Good Christian' is probably not one of them . For the most part I think of myself as a pretty sorry excuse for a Christian. But lucky for me, every day is a new day. Now...

Bill Freese wrote:
The poor suffer so that we will have the opportunity to minister to them individually.

I think you're mistaking opportunity for cause. Are you saying Christians cause poor people? I'm pretty sure they predated Christ. And I've yet to see, for all the talk, any real solution for the abolishment of poverty. Many have tried... virtually all have made things worse rather than better.

It would be easier to repeal the laws of human nature than it would be to 'fix' poverty once and for all.

Bill Freese wrote:
Charity is not about the needs of the recipient, it is about the warm feeling the donor gets.

Well that's one cynical way to look at it. But I will point out that once you put a gun to someone's head, you can't use the word 'Charity' anymore. Charity implies choice. If you want to force people to tithe to your value system, that's fine. Just don't pretend it to be benevolent. I don't believe that God values forced obedience.

Bill Freese wrote:
If we get together as a group and, through our government, try to alleviate their suffering in bunches, that denies us the opportunity to help them individually

Christians, as a group, donate a lot to Charity. But the idea that a secular government should be viewed as an adequate avenue for forced 'ministry' is a stretch. You might as well pass a law telling atheists they have to donate to the Salvation Army... otherwise they don't care about the poor.

[This message has been edited by Rick Kuchynka (3/7/2011)]
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Posted by Bill Freese (+478) 10 years ago
Rick Kuchynka wrote:
I'm pretty sure they predated Christ.

OK. Not a good Christian. Next time you see one, ask about who predates Christ.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 10 years ago
You mean like this brain trust?

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Posted by Bridgier (+9178) 10 years ago
Above all, we must create a system that:

1) Comforts the powerful
2) Coopts the sycophants
3) Exploits labor.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
OK. Not a good Christian. Next time you see one, ask about who predates Christ.


Heh, good one.

But it's gonna take some time for me to figure out where to look. Before I would've thought that maybe a homeless shelter or soup kitchen would be a good place to find one.

But now I've learned that all the REAL Saints are probably in Congress.
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Posted by aaron bruce (+203) 10 years ago
every last one of you are going to find out what jesus would cut, when he comed back. members will be cut from the fl0ck and i hope that i am not one of them...
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
Denise, that is funny.

It is not about knowledge it is about blind faith.

Nobody predated Jesus-hilarious I just fell out of my chair laughing. What about Abraham?
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1669) 10 years ago
There is a reason I don't watch this show. They are all idiots, some more than others.

Anyhow, disregarding all of the people on the earth before the advent of organized religion, off the top of my head, I can name eight major religions founded before the birth of Christ. Yet, this idea that nothing predates Christ is more common than one might think.
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Posted by howdy (+4942) 10 years ago
Keep em stupid, they are easier to rule...which is why our educational system sucks in this country IMO...ignorance is bliss I guess...
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11731) 10 years ago
You have to keep the lower classes down. Otherwise, they get uppity and expect to be treated as if they were real human beings. Only the rich deserve to be treated decently because their wealth proves they deserve it. The poor deserve to be poor and deserve to remain poor.

Can't man the mines and the factories unless the underclass is under. I mean, try to imagine a poor Paris Hilton, having to try to work for a living. Shudder.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4459) 10 years ago
You also can't be a totally awesome rich person in a classless system. I think it's less about finding bodies for crappy jobs and more about having a way to identify who is awesome and who is not.
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Posted by Stone (+1595) 10 years ago
Buck, that is true our cult of personality surrounding the rich and the idea of becoming rich is stupefying. Cribs, Life styles of the rich and famous, celebrity reality shows, sweet 16, power ball, game shows. Anything to dream away our miserable existence of poorness. The rich get richer and the poor get stupider.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4462) 10 years ago
'Nothing predates Christ' is sound from a theological perspective. Bill and I just crossed wires over which language to speak. I spoke historicity when he expected theology.

As for what language they speak on The View, it's hard to say.
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