I usually stay clear of the abortion debate, but with the Know Nothings,...err, I mean Republican legislators in town, I thoroughly enjoyed this letter to the editor this morning:

http://helenair.com/news/...002e0.html

The pro-life folks are adamant that pro-life legislation will pass in this Legislature. If so, I look forward to the Legislature passing welfare reform so that children born under compulsory conditions will be housed, fed and receive health care funded by the state of Montana. No more days of punishing the child for the actions of the mother. Montanans must be willing to feed, clothe, house and provide medical care for all unwanted children. Then we will truly be a "Christian" state. The pro-life folks need to put up or shut up - there is no middle ground.

I am looking forward to a big increase in my Montana state income tax to pay for all these "children born under compulsory conditions". Heck, we may as well give them scholarships to college as well.

The purpose of banning abortion is to punish women for having sex without permission. The child that is born is born to punish the mother. The more the child suffers, the more the mother is punished. Hence, the philosophy of refusing birth control or pregnancy care or child support but of making sure the child is born and the poor mother suffers.

I've heard that phosgene in the drinking water this time of year can make one unusually sardonic.

Now in Kansas, they want to give law enforcement access to medical records...

http://www.huffingtonpost...11476.html

Can you say slippery slope?

While we are at it why not remove the uterus after the baby is born?

Somehow I think things would be a little different if society really did treat an unborn fetus like any other aged human. Suppose there were an obituary in the newspaper after each abortion?

Suppose the police came to investigate every miscarriage? That would be fun.

But if the Republicans ever succeeded in banning abortions, then how would they capture the catholic vote? There would be no more reason to vote R.

Suppose children were treated like any other aged human....a child can be abused physically, sexually, mamed to incapacity, and the perpetrator gets what, 5-10 years. If you shook an adult so hard that their brain became mush, or repeatedly raped and adult so that their life would never have a chance at being normal you would be punished to the highest. You do that to an innocent child or baby and the penalty is much less severe. Lets get serious about protecting our children and punishing those who don't.

Rant complete!

What if the millions (or probably even billions) of dollars paid to all of the lawyers and politicians and advertisers to ban abortion was actually given to the people who NEED it; the teenaged girls whose parents kicked them out for being pregnant, the women who have to quit their jobs and live at the poverty line to raise a child single handedly because they can't afford child care, the women who have been backed up against the wall when the Father of the child leaves and makes no attempt to accept any responsibility for it. What if that money was used to set up a home for them to live in, nutritious food for them to eat, money to pay for Prenatal care and delivery, and child care support after the baby is born? There would be more than enough money if that were the case. Why does all of that money have to go to pay for the politics of anti-abortion?

If abortions are illegal, there will still be abortions. The only difference is that the woman's life will be in danger.

Abstract:
In Latin America, induced abortion is the fourth most commonly used method of fertility regulation. Estimates of the number of induced abortions performed each year in Latin America range from 2.7 to 7.4 million, or from 10 to 27 percent of all abortions performed in the developing world. Because of restrictive laws, nearly all of these abortions, except for those performed in Barbados, Belize, and Cuba, are clandestine and unsafe, and their sequelae are the principal cause of death among women of reproductive age. One of every three to five unsafe abortions leads to hospitalization, resulting in inordinate consumption of scarce and costly health-system resources. Increased contraceptive prevalence and restrictive abortion laws have not decreased clandestine practices. This article addresses how the epidemic of unsafe abortion might be challenged. Recommendations include providing safer outpatient treatment and strengthening family planning programs to improve women's contraceptive use and their access to information and to safe pregnancy termination procedures. In addition, existing laws and policies governing legal abortion can be applied to their fullest extent, indications for legal abortion can be more broadly interpreted, and legal constraints on abortion practices can be officially relaxed.

http://www.law-lib.utoron...t/paxm.pdf

See Amorette's post above for the reason that this is such a hot button issue with middle aged white men.

Conservatives are against abortion because they want the child to become old enough to be killed by a gun.

amorette you are a verrrrry disgusting individual. we are guaranteed LIFE liberty and the persuit of happiness in this country. you are a sad case...

i can not believe some of you people on here and your calousness towards a child getting killed.

so like the post thread states put up or shut up

who on here have had an abortion? if it is such a great idea sign your name to your actions....if you are so proud of your abortion then put your name on the line...let everyone know what a good decision you made. lets give t-shirts out after every abortion...I JUST KILLED MY KID.....so cmon you proud abortionists......who in the hell are you?

[This message has been edited by aaron bruce (1/22/2011)]

Okay, I'll bite. I had an abortion. His name was aaron bruce.

As usual, Mr. Bruce overreacts and tries to simplify a desperately complex matter. I will attempt to explain.

1) Banning abortion does not stop abortion. Banning abortion drives it underground. Desperate women will and do risk their lives in order to have an illegal abortion. Many will die. While this is seen as just punishment for those sluts who have sex outside of the control of those who wish to control them, others see their suffering and death as a bad thing.

2) If you wish to save the lives of women and children, provide the women with access to and information about reliable contraception in order to allow them to make a decision about when and where to bear children.

3) If you wish women to avoid abortions, provide them support medically, financially and socially and provide support for their children. If a woman has to chose between feeding the children she has or an abortion, many women will choose the living children.

4)If you wish abortion to be illegal, then sign up for a lottery and when a woman becomes pregnant in an untenable situation, you may be chosen at random to pay for her medical care and raise her child, no questions asked.

No one is "in favor" of abortion. However, many of us are opposed to women being forced to risk their lives and their future because of a mistake, a contraception failure, or a man who made the decision for them. Abortion should be the absolute last resort and if it is that last resort, it should be safe and legal.

amorette, you can not justify what you wrote. you are a sick woman. if i make the mistake of getting a woman pregnant the court makes me responsible. and rightfully so...in this society if a woman gets pregnant and kills the child God makes her responsible...and rightfully so. man can make abortion legal if he wants...GOD IS THE FINAL JUDGE. make your choices wisely. amorette i hope you think long and hard about what you believe on this issue...i used to respect you, you and windy are the only reason i come here....now i dont know what to think.....it is one thing to be a lefty but to justify killing kids.....cmon...it hurts women as much as the baby...

Aaron, I happen to know that you were born into poverty to a mother who had 4 children with 4 different men, none of which she was ever married to. She was uneducated, and had many, many difficulties. You cannot possibly think that this is a good way to proceed in having a family, raising a family, etc. Cleaning houses with kids in tow and living on welfare cannot have been a picnic. I would be interested to know how educated and how successful and how stable the 4 of you are as a result of your upbringing, since I do not know any of you as adults (but I did change your diapers, LOL). I do not doubt your mother did the best she could to be a good mom, but bringing unplanned children into the world one after the other makes NO sense..

if i make the mistake of getting a woman pregnant the court makes me responsible.

This is only true in the financial sense. The court cannot force you to take care of the child you brought into the world. The court cannot force you to live with the child you brought into the world. The court cannot force you to love the child you brought into the world. You seem to think that throwing money at the situation solves it. It does not. It has become obvious that children who are brought up in single parent homes tend to be poorer, less educated, more likely to become incarcerated, and more prone to be victims or perpetrators of violence. There are exceptions, of course, but the statistics are clear. Whether you believe that abortion should be illegal or legal the problem remains: How do we ensure that all children receive the love, nurturing, and education they deserve?

hey polar bear, you got an advantage over me...i come here in name and in person, you come here incognito...that is fine. man or woman up and state your name...

my mother beat the hell out of us.
she worked us to the bone
she took us to church
we ate good food all the time
we learned a great work ethic, my brother recovered from a brain injury and is severly handicapped because of his accident. and when he healed he was still the best pallet builder at bruces pallets.
she taught me how to garden, which is how i feed my family now.
hell polar bear i would put my upbringing against anyones any day of the week. as a family my mother and my siblings made mistakes....but we can damn sure out work any one i know.....that is better than any college education you can get......i love my mom....and if you are wondering if i wish any of us were aborted i will tell you NO. and by the way there were five of us....all bastards.....my mom had the stones to get all of us through it...and in shining fashion...which is more than i can say for some dual parent families you wretch. and to clear up any more of my families skeletons my brother and neice are both mexicans......and i love them. especially ciara

hey windy, i have raised a daughter that is graduating early from three forks high. i am an independant contractor and my house is paid for...by age 38 i got 10 acres on the missouri. now dual parent children....what are your stats??how much debt do you carry? my life is an open book......i am proud of my life..as well as my sisters and brothers....hell one of my sisters just got back from missionary work in some corn funtry (lil he haw humor)....you tell me how well adjusted we are..hehe...us bruces kick ass darling

Aaron, my intention was NOT to say anyone should have been aborted, but that young women should be making choices on what is best for the children they conceive, not based on what men in politics decide FOR them.. To take away that choice will leave some women in the place your mom found herself in with no other options. Those of us who care greatly about children care greatly about what happens to them AFTER their birth. Women under this kind of stress are much more likely to abuse their children and the fallout from that lasts for generations. Not to mention that your mom was a very smart person who could have chosen a different life for herself and for her future children. She made choices that were certainly not ideal, but she did not have to make 4 (or maybe it is 5) children live with that kind of stress and poverty.

And Aaron, I have not seen you since you were 4 or 5 years old so my name would mean nothing to you. My mom helped your mom out some, but she has not lived there for 30 years.

[This message has been edited by polar bear (1/22/2011)]

polar bear you are a coward...you got a name use it.

what my mom did was remarkable...her upbringing kept us alive. ie not aborted. my mother made no mistakes...i love all my siblings...if she would have killed any of them i would hate her..

my situation and what has come from it is proof that humans can endure any situation they are put through. if they have faith in GOD. and if you give someone a chance to shine they will. if you give them an easy way out they will take it and regret it. abortion was legal when each and every one of us were conceived. my mother was strong enough to take responsibility for her actions. sure her life could have been easier had she killed us, but look... in her retirement she will never have to worry about getting put in a home...she will be taken care of by her children...because we know her sacrifices....and love her for making them..

women stand up and defy abortion...you kill a part of yourself and destroy someone that will truely love you. single parents make mistakes but children raised by their mom only grow up to respect their mom more than any one else in the world.......my mom is my hero.i love you mom

if i make the mistake of getting a woman pregnant the court makes me responsible.

and

This is only true in the financial sense.

Or many times it's not even true in the financial sense. What about the men who work for cash under the table to avoid having their wages garnished, move from job to job to avoid having their wages garnished, or ask their employers to ignore child support orders because they cannot afford it (only to quit once the employer informs him that it is not a possibility)?

Or, if they do decide to hold down a semblance of a job, the garnished child support is less than $30.00 per month because it's the third or fourth child in line for garnishment, or they work minimal hours for minimal wages to keep the awarded support as low as possible. Does that really qualify as being financially responsible for the child? All of these situations happen frequently.

But just keeping someone alive, putting them through a life they have to endure (your own words) is not responsible. You admit that much of your life was hell. For women who DO WANT THE CHOICE not to put their children through hell, beat them, work them to the bone, etc. that choice should be there.. ALL children should be wanted BEFORE they are conceived. Your mother made choices not to live that way and yes, those were her choices, but innocent children should not have to live with the fallout. I am SO sorry for what you went through. I saw way, way too much of what you went through, but I was a kid and had no knowledge of where to report, if there even was such a thing back then. I am not saying your mom did not love you, because I know she did, but how you were treated still makes me feel ill to think about it.

that is what i thought........crickets......

proof that humans can endure any situation they are put through. if they have faith in GOD.

Aaron, never underestimate the power of human resilience. There are millions of non-Christian people in the world who weather terrible hardships in their lives through whatever coping mechanisms work for them. What works for you is not necessarily the answer for your neighbor.

i just want to be clear here that what I have said is public knowledge and I am not revealing anything confidential. The situation was known by dozens, but no one really knew what to do other than to provide the mother work and support. And yes, she faithfully took the kids to church..

are you kidding me.....the trials of my childhood pale in comparison to the enrichment.....i would be like everyone else in this site had my mother not raised me the way she did. with my hand out and wanting someone to pay my way....i guarantee i deserved every whoppin i got....and i deserved more than i got to be sure...i will not get into the loving aspects of my childhood....that is personal...but to assure you i recieved more love than i did discipline...and you are still a coward hiding behind a pseudonym. i wonder what skeletons you were raised with.....causi i got none...like i said open book....rather liberating..to say the least.

hey selk...with man nothing is possible. with GOD everything is possible.....you are wrong my friend..there are no athiests in fox holes

Aaron, I am glad you are able to focus on the blessings over the pain you endured. You must be a strong man and it give me comfort to know that you made it past being a victim and see yourself as competent. I wish you the best. By the way, I named my own son Aaron and you were the only Aaron I had ever known to that point. Loved the name.

I've always hated that saying. It's right up there with "Jesus is the reason for the season". Watering down something as complex and important as religion/faith into a trite catchphrase defeats the possibility of intelligent conversation. But to address the saying, there may be no Atheists (which I do not believe), but there are plenty of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, etc.

You cannot tell me that I'm wrong. It is my opinion. Just as you have the right to your opinion. You ask for intelligent debate, but then hit the showers when faced with information, ideas and opinions that differ from your own. You call names, ridicule or, in this case, dismiss someone as wrong in a debate which is completely subjective. What makes for a wonderful world is when we do not believe everything we hear from one source, whether it be Fox News, or MSNBC.

you know what.you are amazing..you air my families laundry...and continue to stay incognito....i would never do that..not to anyone...well back when i was a renegade, but not as an adult. I am going to give you some advice here, and i am going to leave it alone.

truth and honesty are all you have. being upfront truthful and honest keep you from a guilty conscience. doing the right thing can never be done in the shadows...if you have the courage to say the things you did you need to have the courage to declare yourself...I dont care who you are anymore, sadly to say...i dont have much regard for people who are..shall i say less than honorable....you will do your son a favor and teach him the value of honor...and you can only do that through example. i really wish you well..

all right selk......get yourself all worked up pal. if you read what i said you will realize that i made a statement based on a solid foundation of faith. to believe otherwise would be faithless. i believe what i told you to be true. and in that there is no arguement. it is fact. as far as i am concerned if you believe otherwise you are simply wrong...argueing about it will not change it. live with it bud....in this country you can take it or leave it...

in this country you can take it or leave it...

Absolutely, which is one of the very reasons I love this country.

Mr. Bruce,

My last post was not a comment on your personal life. I had no knowledge of your history at the time. I was only talking in generalities. Civil discourse requires one to step back from one's self and look at the world at large.

My "stats" are these: Undergraduate degree, law degree, enrolled agent, mother, wife, well-adjusted kid, positive net worth, well-read, proud of my accomplishments, content with my life, and curious about the world. Thanks for asking.

Mr. Bruce is free to insult me to his little heart's content but I stand by the idea that abortion should be the last possible choice but it still should be a choice. Killing a mother with an illegal abortion is hardly justice but I know that that is what many want. A woman to die for her 'sins.'

Your childhood is irrelevant. Your past is irrelevant. What is relevant is that women chose abortion for many, many reasons and no one chooses it lightly or without regret but when you are pushed to the wall, sometimes it is the best choice.

If you don't want women to be that desperate, than give them other options and support so that abortion doesn't look like the only choice. Provide them with birth control. Prevent rapists from attacking women. Provide pregnant women with medical care and children with medical care and support. And stop passing judgement on their choices because every woman has a right to her own life and you, as some man who knows nothing about her or her life, has no idea what is in her heart or her head.

Again, I am not 'in favor' of abortion but I feel it should be an option for some cases and it is not up to me or you to judge those cases. It is up the woman.

well windi, my "history".........polar bear made it sound worse than it was...i had friends that were truely abused. drunk dad beating them for no reason at all..so my history was probably more middle of the road...and like amorette said my youth has nothing to do with this topic. amorette you might want to look at that last sentence you typed. knowing your propensity for perfection(not sure meaning of propensity but it sounded good) sure you would want to correct that.

here is the deal.......if i get blacked out drunk, climb in my truck and rearend a vehical with a pregnant woman in it. she does not get seriously hurt but she looses her fetus. Now I made a mistake, and it cost a fetus the ability to come into the world. obviously i have no malice in my heart, i am a really good person, just got done painting my neighbors garage, she is elderly. do i get charged with vehicular homicide? sure i do and i would deserve it. so the courts have decided that a fetus is not a mass of cells it is a human being. and i have to be held accountable for my mistakes, so i go to jail for murder as well i should. oh there is something i forgot to mention about that woman who lost her fetus...she was on her way to get a GOD D&#N ABORTION. now is my crime any less tragic? and as far as the rape issue..the fetus is only half the rapist the other half is the mother...she is still killin part of herself..what i have noticed here is that no one has stood up and claimed that their life is better for killing thier child......where are you women. you better off women.....and that is the only data you need amorette

Well, I remember you aaron in high school. You were the school bully. If anyone acted kindly to you, it was because they worried what you would do to them if they didn't. It sounds from the posts on this forum that things haven't changed much. Glad you got your life "together" maybe there is still some time for you to en pregnant some more women in your life to even out all those abortions that take place every day in the world that bug you so.

I know some women that have had abortions, and while they didn't have a party when they went through the ordeal, they survived and are getting on with their lives. What difference is it to you? Why do you care or feel the need to get involved? It seems to me like a private matter. People like you aaron are such hypocrites. You run around trying to act like the ultimate American god loving capitalist of free will and anti-government intrusion but only when it suits you and your agenda.

It is ironic that those who object the loudest about "Obamacare" coming between doctor and patient are the first to rush into the room and interfere with the doctor patient relationship when the issue is abortion. Seem to me that rather than arguing about whether abortion should be legal or not, we as community ought to all work together to make sure that those who become pregnant are that way by choice. If we did that, abortion would become a very rare occurrence. IMO, operations such as crisis pregnancy centers create a "safety net" mentality that encourages promiscuity.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (1/23/2011)]

mule train FTW

hey mule train, you are another nameless coward. who did i bully? who did i fight? i just got off the phone with some of my bullies, and they laughed at what you said. i talked to two friends of mine and they had an opposite opinion of me than you, most of the fights i had in school were defending people from bullies. so name your self if you are going to make these types of alligations.

as far as abortions...did i ever say it should be illegal? i dont care if it is legal or not. and i think i stated that in an earlier post. i do believe that society should shun the idea of abortion to curtail the practice. if you sympathise and make excuses for it you are basically conning a woman into having one...and the effects of having an abortion is devistating on most women...it haunts some of them for their entire life. and it should

as far as obama care.....it is simply unconstitutional. and here is why...every state right now retains the power to regulate health insurance in their borders under the 10th amendmant. obama care eliminates 10th amendmant states rights, and that is unconstitutional. under the 10th amendmant the people retain the right to get health care if they want, obama care, with the individual mandate strips me of my 10th amendmant right. do you know the 10th amendmant? do you people know the law?

Dear unioncorn,
Please give aaron the terminal illness of his choosing.

I think Mr bruce has turned out well, and for others to sit in judgement over him is cowardly. He says he was took care of, he should know. I know he's mother owns rental property, and her own small business. I think Bruce has proven his point. Anyone that would demean a hard working mother who is respected in our community is wrong. I know her and she may talk alot, but she is a good person.

Fight the fight Aaron

I know women who had abortions and while they thought about it, it was neither 'devastating,' nor did it 'haunt them their entire lives.' They knew it was the right choice at the time.

Richard is right. If you take away the reasons for abortions (And forget societal pressure. I can name the two abortion providers who lived in Miles City long before abortion was legal. If you are desperate, the law is no hinderance.) you take away abortion, except when medically necessary.

Provide birth control and contraceptive information. Reduce rapes. Provide medical care and support.

Demonizing your opponent as an excuse to avoid listening to the argument doesn't solve the problem. Actually DOING something does.

So, are you prepared, as this topic says, to put up or shut? Are you prepared to provide sex education to those old enough to reproduce? Which can be as young as 11 or 12. Are you prepared to provide medical care to pregnant women and their children? Are you prepared to support those children? Are you prepared to step in and take custody of children from unfit parents?

If you aren't, shut up.

Remember one of the worthy causes we espoused in the sixties and seventies? "Zero population growth" was the attainable goal to achieve a balanced population and insure the planet could sustain us all. I did my part or I should say we did our part. We had two children and then, snip snip. I am foggy about the exact number. I think the number was was 2.3 children per family, at the time.

I don't know what that number would be today but I suspect it would be higher. (aaron, you don't object to vasectomies do you?) I hope not for according to some religions I am bound for their version of eternal damnation and will be accountable for murdering the children I didn't have.

There are tens if not hundreds of thousands children in need of adoption and a loving home. Any decent person with the means and heart enough can qualify to raise someone's mistake or misfortune without adding to our dwindling resources and further burdening society.

Someone touched on this in an earlier post but this is part of my rant. The military/industrial complex loves disenfranchised, uneducated, young, men and women. They are fast food for the hero machine. Some religions love these same people to increase their numbers and bank accounts. It is simpler for some to follow a tenant based on tradition and superstition. Fear is a great motivating force for the ignorant and abandoned.

I still believe in zero population growth. It is the right thing to do, for me.

Well, it sure seems like we have a lot of ".3's" of a child running around.

buck...i wish for you wealth and prosperity. we are all terminally, ill. all of us are going to die. if my death comes and i am fortunate as to know when, well then i get the opportunity to live like i was dying. and yes amorette, if my daughter gets pregnant unexpectidly i will do everything to help her through it. and not saddle you with the responsibility for my daughters behavior. hows bout that..i agree for the most part with you, however i feel that women are stronger than most give them credit for. as a matter of fact i honestly believe that God made the strongest souls women. conning them into destroying their child weakens them. that is my opinion. the ability to overcome all obsticles is a trait unique to women. this is because of their nurturing quality, abortion kills that,,, for some just a little and for others all the way.i love all women,,,except you and wendy....i just like you two...you can not be powerful if you do not believe in your power...rebuke abortion and empower your selves ladies.

I do not see how amoretti can say if you really want to help here is what you can do. That is saying she is the moderator of acceptibility. I did not elect her, we can each of us fight our fight on our terms. If we allow the realm of political acceptability to be guided or dictated. Then we do not have freedom, and political correctness rules the day.

Hahahahaha

I was laughing at the empowerment thing, but cash snuck in there. I wonder who cash could be?

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (1/23/2011)]

i agree for the most part with you, however i feel that women are stronger than most give them credit for. as a matter of fact i honestly believe that God made the strongest souls women. conning them into destroying their child weakens them. that is my opinion. the ability to overcome all obsticles is a trait unique to women.

If women are so strong in your opinion how could a conversation about abortion so easily con them? Your misogyny is showing, sir.

Ok. I can't resist this one. Are "obsticles" similar to "testicles"?

Strong women don't "beat the hell" out of their children when life is too tough for them to deal with. Strong women don't put themselves or their innocent children into these situations. They make other choices. Strong women make responsible choices and sometimes abortion is the most responsible choice that can be made at the time..

Strong women make responsible choices and sometimes abortion is the most responsible choice that can be made at the time..

Umm... I think strong women (IMO pretty broad term) don't get pregnant in the first place.

Polar Bear,
Your personal attacks have no place in civil discussion. We are debating abortion not castigating a person over something in which they had no control.

I have made no personal attacks.

You mean only childless women are strong women???

Souix, I do see some personal attacks and I think you have mixed up posters.

[This message has been edited by polar bear (1/23/2011)]

I am not going to repost what you said, but you seem to be a walking encyclopedia on Aaron's life. Bringing up someone's childhood is really unnecessary and does not belong in the discussion. I do not have the same beliefs as Aaron, but to use his life as an example of when someone should abort is hitting below the belt. There have been many children who have risen above there lot in life.

Read Aaron's first post on this thread asking those who have had abortions to list their names here..

and i was asking you to do the same...but i guess you are just as ashamed of yourself as the proud women who got abortions.

a persons strength is determined in how they deal with adversity. i do not consider getting an abortion a sign of strength. it is that simple. you will not change my mind. promote abortion all you want... think what you will about my childhood..i love me some aaron...my childhood probably gave me the strength to come here in person and not hide behind a penn name...i wonder about your childhood that you hide your identity...

love aaron bruce

Why would you ask women who have had abortions to name themselves using real names? Why not ask those who have had their tonsils out the same question?

polar bear has been ID'd in the past, do the work yourself. Tonsils? sioux is right.

Why has this become about me? Makes no sense except that pro-choice is not very accepted among those who have not educated themselves.. And of course, "strong women don't get pregnant"..

[This message has been edited by polar bear (1/23/2011)]

I believe he meant, "Strong women don't get pregnant, accidentally." Even that isn't true, but whatever you have to tell yourself...

it is not about you, it is about moral issues on both sides of abortion, and there are many. who cares if it is about you or not. do you really take this sort of thing personally? i would recomend not, for all you know alls i want to do is argue and so i took the opposite side of the issue on the thread. it is not personal for me, and shouldnt be for anyone else here. i will explain it for you,

1. there are very well educated people on both sides of the issue, but you can not educate emotion or common sense. and there is obviously emotion and common sense on both sides.

2. why in the hell are people still having sex without the pill and condoms anyway? even an uneducated person can see that that is russian roulette. in nursing homes one of the biggest problems they are having is sexually transmitted diseases, i dont get it.

3. adoption is an alternative to raising a child, the majority of pro-lifers would agree that in the case of rape and insest and mother in danger would be acceptable reasons for an abortion.

4. where is the parenting these days, why are our babies having babies? if our government, both dem and rep...both the same...was doing their job right we would have financial situations where one of the parents could stay home and raise their family and their children would not have to turn to sex as a substitute for the nurturing they did not get because thier parents were too buisy for them.

5. societies view of abortion should be such as that it is not acceptable to do. in some communities women get multiple abortions and they end up thinking nothing of it. they say that every murder you commit after your first is easier and easier, i would assume it is that way with abortion. there was a time when it was socially unacceptable to have sex out of wedlock, now it is how we sell our chinese merchandise to one another, abortion should not gain that kind of acceptability, period.

stop taking thing personal on the internet, it can ruin you, there are some mean spirited people on the net

aaron bruce

1. there are very well educated people on both sides of the issue, but you can not educate emotion or common sense. and there is obviously emotion and common sense on both sides.

I absolutely agree with you here. But your previous rhetoric undermines your apparent reasonableness in this statement.

2. why in the hell are people still having sex without the pill and condoms anyway?

Because our society has an unhealthy attitude regarding sex and thus doesn't teach its children about contraception. My daughter's middle school actually taught that condoms don't work.

3. adoption is an alternative to raising a child, the majority of pro-lifers would agree that in the case of rape and insest and mother in danger would be acceptable reasons for an abortion.

Adoption is a great alternative. Unfortunately that is not happening as much as it should. And question: why is abortion not murder just because the pregnancy is due to a rape or incest? If you think abortion is baby-killing what difference does it make if the baby is due to a rape or incest? If you make an exception for these two situations then Amorette's argument that the anti-choice folks just want to punish women for having sex seems to be more valid.

it is not about you, it is about moral issues on both sides of abortion

No. I started this thread. It is not about the moral issues about both sides of the abortion debate.

It is about one single issue. If we in Montana were to pass a bill banning abortion, we should also pass human health services to pay for the medical expenses and all future costs incurred for those having to raise a child they did not want to the age of 18. Which means we need to pass a corresponding increases in taxes to go with the anti-abortion bill.

If adoption is the answer, as some here say, fine. We should pay for all of the birth mother's expenses up until she gives the child away to the adoptive parents, including legal costs.
That is the only debate here. Put up or shut up, you Republican puke toady. Pay your increased taxes to pay for these women who have to bear unwanted children because of your communistic regulation of their lives. Myself, I will stick with the Libertarians.

The only issue I see for debate in this thread, which I raised in the first post, is whether we the taxpayers should pay for the college education of the forced birth children. I think yes, since we forced these women to have these children. And I think we the taxpayers should pay for that college education.

So, back to the original post, lets reframe as a multi-answer question:

The 2011 Republican Legislature votes to end women's reproductive choice. How much should we increase our taxes to cover this decision?

(a) enough to pay for medical and legal costs for birth and adoption.
(b) enough to pay for medical, educational, home financial and legal costs until the unwanted child is 18?
(c) post-high school education, including graduate school?
(d) all of the above?

Pretty straight and simple. Unless you are a simpleton.

As usually, well said. I say either A or B. Better yet, let's not pass any such bill in the first place.

I vote A if adoption is chosen and B if it is not.

you guys convinced me....communist republicans......they are jerks

hey i got some more laws we can get rid of..like child support...why should a man be saddled with a mistake his entire life. child support puts men in the poor house. and with unemployment at 10% it is rediculous to expect an out of work man to pay child support. there should be no consequences for our actions..so if the woman will not get an abortion after a man makes a mistake then he should be off the hook. fair is fair

let the people out of jail for causing the accidental death of a fetus. besides murder is defined as the unlawful taking of the life of another human being. and fetus aint human beings. they are a mass of cells...im just saying.

and if they make abortion illegal who really gives a rats ass? OBAMA CARE IS GONNA TAKE ALL THE BURDEN OF MEDICAL EXPENSE OUT OF THE EQUATION, AND SINCE HE SO NEATLY TIED IN CONTROL OF STUDENT LOANS IN THE BILL AND EVERY THING LIBERAL GOVERNMENT DOES IS GOOD, I AM SURE THAT IT IS GOING TO COST US CLOSE TO NOTHING TO EDUCATE THESE POOR DESTITUTE MOTHERS AND THEIR CHILDREN. might have to kick the illegals out of the country to make it work, but those racist republicans are all for that.......

oh yeah and since the government cant tell people what to do with their bodies cause that is communist lets get rid of the statutory rape laws..if she is 12 and wants to do a 60 year old person then so be it.

what if someones daughter wants to have sex with her father...cant tell people what to do with their bodies..

drug laws....get rid of them, they violate the sanctity of a persons ability to do what they wish with their own bodies.

attempted suicide.....no recourse.

seat belt laws...

under age drinking

selective service

child hood immunizations

prostitution

hey guys can we think of any more overbearing government intrusion?

oh yeah and obama care....government cant make someone be healthy, that is an infringement on their right to do what they wish with their own bodies

[This message has been edited by aaron bruce (1/24/2011)]

[This message has been edited by aaron bruce (1/24/2011)]

oh yeah and since the government cant tell people what to do with their bodies cause that is communist lets get rid of the statutory rape laws..if she is 12 and wants to do a 60 year old person then so be it.

what if someones daughter wants to have sex with her father...cant tell people what to do with their bodies..

The fact that your perspective is that the child is the instigator in these situations says a lot about you.

Wendy just said it all.

Here's a handy chart for people to think about:

APPLAUSE! I don't know where you got that, Bridg, but it is brilliant.

There is a troublesome difference between what is right and how to approach the topic legally.

What are the legal repercussions if abortion is banned?
-Question: Is abortion effectively stopped?
-Answer: No. Abortions will still be carried out, with great risk of the mother's health.
There will be no regulation, and those with moral feelings of obligation to provide a safe service or to provide service to exceptional cases (rape, incest, birth defects, or terminal disease in the child) will be punished by the law.

-Question: Who is responsible for unwanted children if abortion is banned?
-Answer: Unknown.
Should it be the parent/s that were irresponsible enough in the first place to have a now unwanted child?
Should it be state? Federal? Taxes will increase. Thus, it will be the community's (city, county, state, or country) responsibility.

That is the main argument of this thread. What are the consequences of legally banning abortion? If you take away that choice, do you have some responsibility in the result (an unwanted child)? Can we afford that responsibility? I know people deserving of financial assistance, and I know people that terribly abuse any system of financial assistance. It is a precarious balance of the best interest of individual and community.

We all have our own beliefs, all built on the best of intentions. I am not a scholar of theology, so I apologize on general ignorance and the prospect of further feeding trolls. I find it curious that the strongest support of making abortion illegal is Christianity, which is founded upon free will. Whether something is right or wrong, there is always a choice involved.

I admit, I am pro-choice. I knew at a time, under circumstances, I would have had an abortion because the quality of life for my child and myself would have had an exceedingly poor outlook. However, I was responsible enough to not get pregnant under those circumstances. Now I have a child, and I am very happy for doing so. I am still pro-choice, because I am of the belief that there should be a choice, even if I do not agree with the reasons of every woman or couple that choose to have an abortion.

You can judge me accordingly, and a higher power can judge em accordingly. But these are the actions we choose. Do we have the right to attempt to legally take that choice away? Are we prepared for the consequences and possible responsibilities if we do?

This is a topic that will be endlessly debated. There is no way to get everyone to agree to the same action or outcome. We can hope that our different view points can pave the way to the best, most informed outcome.

P.S. Sorry for feeding the trolls. Here's envying anonymity from the judgment and scrutiny of our lives and beliefs.

I've been reading this guy's blog for a long time, and the evolution of my thoughts on many "life ethics" issues (abortion, pacifism, etc) has found common ground with his: http://hugoschwyzer.net/2...ro-choice/

At the end of the day, if your daughter comes to you and says: "I'm pregnant, and I've thought through my options and I've decided that I'm going to do X, and here's why", where X is something diametrically opposed to what you believe is right, what do YOU do? Do you force your daughter to carry the baby? Do you pay for the abortion?

For me, the answer is: I support my daughter. I cannot, in good conscience, force my political beliefs to be written out in her flesh.

you people are funny.
1. i am no republican
2. i never said abortion should be illegal
3. if you believe that it is communistic to tell a woman what to do with her reproductive cycle then i assume you mean all women, from the ability to concieve to death. well women are firtil at 12 years old these days. and since sex is the first part of the reproductive cycle i have to assume that your idea of the age of consent is 12.

4.you said that we should take care of a womans medical expenses up till the time she gives birth..OBAMA CARE TAKES CARE OF THAT PAL
5. and we should pay for the college education of these children. well OBAMA CARE IS IN CONTROL OF STUDENT LOANS PAL.
6.you come on here and call me a puke..i wonder if you would do that to my face?
7. what about the mans ability to opt out of child support if the woman will not get an abortion?
8. what about letting all the people in prison that accidentally killed a fetus out of prison since that fetus is not a human being?

equal protection under the law,,,you people want your cake and eat it too....you want to inject emotion in to this, and get people sympothetic for ONLY THE WOMAN. well there is three people involved in a pregnancy and since most pregnancies are not spawned in some greasy man crawling all over a pristine damsel and enseminating her with his unwashed member, i can only assume that women are equal participants, and equally liable. who is not equally liable if my daughter gets pregnant is my neighbors.

3. if you believe that it is communistic to tell a woman what to do with her reproductive cycle then i assume you mean all women, from the ability to concieve to death. well women are firtil at 12 years old these days. and since sex is the first part of the reproductive cycle i have to assume that your idea of the age of consent is 12.

Aaron, this makes no sense. What does fertility have to do with the ability to grant consent?

Aaron, please answer my question. What do YOU do in the case above?

A) Support your daughter's agency and provide her with the means to accomplish the choice that she's making.
B) Attempt to coerce your daughter to accept your choice instead.

you know what, it is funny....i use your arguements to debate an issue you post. the originator claims libertarianism, well where does self liberty start and end? at what age? if a person is old enough to conceive then she is old enough to get an abortion, and that exact legislation was attempted in some communities, without parent consent..

the funny thing about this thread and the bill maher thread is that none of you ask me my personal political view on any of it. like i said to polar bear,,,maybe i just like debate....maybe i like to pry reasons for believing what you believe out of you,,,,get you to a place of honesty and rage and emotion, so truth is evident..you people argue platitudes...your arguements are weak..one lady hit the nail on the head with the religious arguement for legalized abortion, but the rest of you are like this.....raise taxes, make society pay for the behavior of individuals,,,government can fix this..lame lame lame..you say put up or shut up...i say you make me puke up....hehehehe

Aaron, I'm trying to make this simple for you. It's (A), or (B).

well i think that i asked yall a couple questions that you have not answered. what makes you think that answer a and answer b are the only options? maybe it is your errogance? maybe it is your ability to follow and not lead? maybe it is how you were raised? whatever the reason it doesnt matter. your answer a and b fit none of what i would do.

Well then, offer up option (C) and let's see if it doesn't actually reduce down to (A) or (B).

To be honest aaron, you may have asked questions earlier, but your prose is so incredibly dense and hard to parse, that I really don't bother beyond the first two sentences.

If you honestly want people to engage your positions, then you need to articulate them better. If you don't care, then the sooner you remove yourself to the mchome fever swamp, the better.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/24/2011)]

gees bridgier....you are one of the strong ones.......kick someone out who i disagree with...lol...kinda like the fairness doctrine aint it........

It's not that I disagree with you (although I do), it's just that I don't particularly care to expend the energy to try and decipher you.

When people HAVE bothered to expend said energy, you just ignore them and crank out another paragraph of non-sequitur and incoherence.

This is not any sort of argument, it's simply standing in the general direction of your rant.



[This message has been edited by Bridgier (1/24/2011)]

Homosexual agenda, eh?

aaron. Whether you know it or not.........you are a 100%, Grade A, dyed in the wool, obvious, definite, total, motherprocreateing republican.
You make the Shrub and Dick Cheney look like Kucinich. You out-Limbaugh Limbaugh. You out-slime Glenn Beck. Don't let those phony-assed teabaggers fool you. They're republicans, too. Sarah Palin?
She's one too. Go on. be proud of your heritage. Come out of that closet. AND PAY YOUR PROCREATEING ALIMONY AND CHILD SUPPORT, YOU DEAD BEAT MOTHERPROCREATEER!

Thank you.

WELL BOB, WHO IS KERMIT GOSNELL? CAN ANYONE ON HERE TELL ME WHO KERMIT GOSNELL IS AND WHAT HIS POLITICAL AFFILIATION IS?

I AM A CONSTITUTIONALIST, NOT REPUBLICAN

HOW MUCH MONEY DID OBAMA AND NANCY PELOSI SPEND IN OBAMAS FIRST TWO YEARS?

WHY IS AFGHANASTAN AND IRAQ STILL GOING ON?

WHAY IS GITMO STILL OPEN?

WHY DID OBAMA AND THE DEMS NOT GET RID OF THE PATRIOT ACT?

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BUSH TAX CUTS?

YOUR BOY OBAMA SOUNDS A LITTLE LIKE GEORGE BUSH DONT HE.....

LET ME ASSURE YOU THAT I AM NO REPUBLICRAT....YOU AND YOUR GATHERING OF CIRCLE JERK COMPANIONS HAVE CONVINCED ME YOU ARE. SO SIT IN YOUR ONE BRAIN THINK TANK AND CONTINUE TO PAT EACHOTHER ON YOUR HYPOCRITICAL BACK SIDE...BUNCH OF COMMIES.........

why are u yelling?

what do you mean by "you people" ...

and why did you add the disclaimer that you love your niece and brother that are 'mexican' (are they really from mexico?) if they are family then it is usually assumed that you love them.

i dont know why anyone would consider abortion. but if they do it should be their effin business. they shouldn't have to name themselves on a public forum for some over zealous former highschool bully to pick them apart.

meet me behind M&H.
G.m. Bonine

HEY POLAR BEAR,

sorry to hear about your dad. he was a coool fella. please tell your mom hello for me and your sisters likewise...

yall take care

You want to know what her mistake was in Aaron's eyes, it would be adopting me. Correction she has 6 children whether or not Aaron chooses to acknowledge me or not. I was raised by her and if it weren't for her I would not be the person i am today. I would more then likely be an alcoholic and drug addict like my father and mother. But no she adopted me and gave me a christian education, she taught me the value of hard work, and she showed me the love of god. She isn't perfect but who is. Things may have been tough growing up, but it wasn't because of her, for me it was the judgment from one person in the family telling me i didn't belong. Making me feel like an outcast, but you want to know what is amusing to me, he calls two of his kids his(even tho not biologically) but I'm not considered family. I have been so hurt by it most of my life but making it my news year resolution to try and get over it.

As far as the abortion subject goes, it is the mothers choice. Who are we to pass judgment on her? It's God's place, not ours.

um....who is this??

Polar Bear

PLEASE leave this alone!

this is getting out of hand. i asked women who got abortions and were proud of it to name theirselves because i know for a fact no one would respond. when someone talks about the reasons for getting an abortion it is a direct reflection of my mothers circumstances,,,if my mother were not as strong as she was i would not be here. and i will defend her in her decision all day long. i came here to defend the prolife side of the thread and pro choice people took some rather cheap shots at my family. the unfortunate thing is that my mother had nothing to do with this conversation, and she has to live in miles city. i did not think this kind of thing would happen for airing a point of view,,michelle was adopted by my mother. she wanted to give her a better life and she did..i wonder how proud my mom is of us now. i would like to apologize to my mother for my getting involved in this conversation. giving opinion and debating here is a mistake i will not make twice.

Promise?

if my mother were not as strong as she was i would not be here

Well....she wasn't THAT strong..........all of us around town throughout the years have noticed the coat hanger sticking out of your ears, Aaron.

some of you people are a real class act...
this next statement is refering to some of your posts on the MILES CITY FOLKS thread.

we at milescity.commie will not judge you women if you want to get an abortion, however you damn well better look good when go to get it...that is amazing. fine display people, fine display....who are these women supposed to look good for? you men? do these ladies have an obligation to you or something? maybe they CHOOSE not to wear the "bait" ie. makeup and fine dress...because people like you do not warrant the expense and effort to do so.

i recieve new emails every day concearning the skeletons in many of your closets...thanks to polar bear.....hey gunnar....your family got some juice too.........

those who know what i am talkin bout this is for you.

thanks for your support, private or not, it is nice to know that i am not as alone as this thread would appear.

i am not into the mudslinging personal attacks approach to debate. i do not need to know what others have done to feel good about myself.

i know polar bear and her family..they are good people, this topic just draws out emotion, and causes people to do things that they would not normally do. to stand in judgement of polar bear is wrong.

and to those that want to point out my failings...you can go ahead. i dont care...i dont live in miles city, and my mother is well aware of all of what you know...i am a different person than i was back then. so do what you gotta do...

yall take care....

to the rest of ya....later traitor......

this is for michelle and polar bear. i know how both of you were raised. the first thing God told man to do after he created man was to GO FORTH BE FRUITFUL AND REPLENISH THE EARTH. that is a personal mandate for those that believe in God. to support pro choice is the antithesis of Gods mandate.

With a world population of 6 billion+, I'd say that command has been fulfilled.

why in the hell are people still having sex without the pill and condoms anyway? even an uneducated person can see that that is russian roulette.

the first thing God told man to do after he created man was to GO FORTH BE FRUITFUL AND REPLENISH THE EARTH. that is a personal mandate for those that believe in God.

aaron,

Doesn't your first statement contradict your second? Please explain.

I don't want there to be any confusion. I have never emailed Aaron.

you're attacking my mother. so you should hold your tongue... you should read your Bible once in a while because if you focus on Matt. 7:1-5... you can not remove the sawdust out of others eyes when you still have a plank in yours... i am the 5th child of my mother's.. my name is Ciara Kaye Bruce.. if my mother was not a strong person and handle her business and accept her mistakes like an adult i wouldn't have been able to go to Majuro to help kids that are actually misfortunate. you honestly think that a single girl here can't handle one child or 2 or whatever??? over there girls are mother's of up to 9 children... abortion is an excuse for women to not accept their responsibility.. there are exceptions to every rule.. but for those girls who just want to make their lives easier and not have to deal with the 'burden' of growing up sooner than they wanted to.
i'm with my brother on this one. my mom is a good mom.. and i luv her and wouldn't want to be raised any other way than i have been because she taught me so very much. so polar bear i hope you learn to hold your tongue and don't ever attack my mother again. she's an amazing woman.

Not uh, Richard, there's always room for more people- According to those who protest the elimination of over a million unborn children a year just in the US.
When asked how to feed and house and educate and otherwise support billions more unwanted persons, the answer is always so perfect.
"God WILL provide."
Okay.

Excuse me, but God is not providing for a large portion of the billions on the face of the Earth now.

Is there ANY logical fallacy whose depths haven't been fully plumbed yet upon this thread?

I have attacked no one.

We know. So go back to sitting on your iceberg and have a coke.

really bonine? i have some evidence to the contrary..

who wants family issues aired on the internet?

who believes that people on this site will not drag your personal life through the mud on milescity.com?

how many voices have you silenced because they know the level you people are willing to sink to on milescity.com?

i was called a bully by the coward mule train, well you people bullied people that disagree with you, by how you treated me. they are afraid to speak up, and rightfully so. calling someone names is one thing, you people cause collateral damage to people that have nothing to do with the conversation, there is no code of ethics here...your approach to polar bears behavior makes you copable. i did not find out who she was through investigation...i opened my email and more people emailed her identity to me than have posted here...so i guess you are in the minority bonine...

The End.

mule train isn't anonymous, you're just procreateing lazy.

or not...

My God, when will the crucifixion of aaron bruce end?

Whenever his voice is finally silenced. Infragard out

Just a reminder, the name of this now wildly off topic thread includes two options.

My God, when will the crucifixion of aaron bruce end?

When the cheese falls completely off the cracker.

[This message has been edited by Wendy Wilson (4/13/2011)]

My God I can't believe I just read this crap! If abortions are made illegal you will not force women to get an illegal abortion. That is a choice they are making and no one is forcing them to do it, and if it endangers their life by doing so that is also their choice. They have way better choices than killing another human being. Ever hear of adoption?????? There are many families who would love to adopt a new born baby from our country. Women who do not want a baby should make the only right choice and carry that baby to term and let it be adopted. To me anything otherwise is pure selfishness on the mothers part. When I was young and stupid I used to think the same way as some of the other people on here think who have proven over and over that no matter how old you are you never get any smarter than when you were young and stupid. Aaron you sound like you were handed alot of lemons when you were a kid and I have a mental picture of you sitting behind a table on the corner selling lemonade. You didn't let your life as a child enable you to be a welfare receiving loser who has every excuse in the book to be that way. Going to the school of hard knocks will give you a much better education than any liberal college that some of these morons payed to go to. You made the comment that all people will be judged by God in the end and some will be judged harshly. As bad as some on here have said your mom was, it doesn't sound to me like she will be judged to harshly. Sounds like she did the best she could. That is exactly what my mom did raising 3 on her own, only differance is we had the same father. Amorette you truly sound like a sick woman. Do you have any kids? If so how could you ever think that abortion would be the right choice? Even as a last resort. Which it never would be, as I said ADOPTION should be the only LAST RESORT. IMHO abortion is the ultimate in selfishness.

By the way Amorette you got on me once about making to long of paragraphs and I made a post using all the correct punctuations and paragraphs just to make you happy. But guess what after reading your garbage on this subject I no longer care what you think and I no longer care whether or not you read the first sentence or the last or any in between.

[This message has been edited by Gomer (5/8/2011)]

This thread needs to be aborted.

[This message has been edited by K. D. (5/8/2011)]

I like the whole " get jelly belly" add campaign. They are supposed to tell people there's a choice and which one to make, but none of the girls in the adds are ever holding their new child, so....what exactly are they advertising?

Adoption's a great choice. Unfortunately many sectors of society frown upon it and it is not encouraged among many ultra-religious and certain ethnic groups. Also once the mother holds the child (a common practice today) it is even more difficult from her to give up her child.

[This message has been edited by Wendy Wilson (5/8/2011)]

They are supposed to tell people there's a choice and which one to make

That sounds... manipulative.

Aaron stay strong "A personhood Law" unfortunately will have to be created to end this Abortion Issue... you have a very strong question of the "fetus" or ???? Of course it won't get answer because it's convienent for the aborters to keep the "fetus" going to eliminate their original intent, esepecially if the female was on their way to the murdering room/clinic. The "Last Resort" comment is a coward's justicication for being the coward... if that person were in combat they would probably throw you on the gernade as a "last resort" or slit your throat to have your ammo... a thief is the "last resort's" answer... and unfortunately the "coward" who want's an all expense paid education to college lol... we're a "Republic" cowards not a democracy and your and my soverin citizenchip was aborted a long, long time ago so killing our unborn children is a "last resort" excuse to be a coward and being educated in cowardise seems to be easy when there is no Love and the fruits of that Love... the smiles, the arguing, BEING a child these "cowards" use there fears as what they call "leverage" to justify "costs" and the "zero population" dude well he's a coward's coward... I bet he tries to run from his own shawdow... and tha A or B guy you are eloquant but a coward's coward too at least the "last resort" person will slit your throat and explain why while your lights are going out lol... How sad that killing unborn children is taking up the time of what are supposed to be adults but cowards here AND something to consider and that is when these children get educated and become even greater coward's than yourselves your limit to live may come at an age you may not want to hear because the "cost" to keep you around may exceed the... lol Brother Aaron be a light... and carry on. You have HONORED your Mother... something these coward's will never understand...

[This message has been edited by RemnantSoul (5/10/2011)]

Sock puppet.

This is your brain on drugs.

I read that entire post. Very Cactus Plainsy.

I would read that entire post, except that I'm afraid my IQ would drop several points in the process.

Abortion=Murder and the "choice" opens the door to more in hidden forms for cowards/"last resort" MURDER grow-up, come out joim the LIVING instead ok killing AND! sadly those who can not defend themselves. What next cowards the "aged"/"old"/"sick"? Do we get ridiculous and discuss tall, short, etc. because of "costs" or acceptability in a percieved conditional society? Abortion is something that is not acceptable in a "Republic" but aborters fear life AND inocent life that is defenseless and infringes on THEIR "well being" or precieved well being, as an abortionist/supporter when life gets tough your "last resort" thoughts are "who" is in my way of "my" well being and if you find no answer you slit your wrist because of "self pitty" and what a REAL pitty...! As this thread "put up or shut up" is ANOTHER "when the going gets tough the tough get going" but here is a word you know nothing about and that word is Honor and the expected responses as above are a pitty as a whole and I encourage you to leave this Republic and take your pittiful lives to "another country" of your chosing but of course you're not tough enough to exsist here and to frighten/scared to go any where else because you think you have "rights" that only exsist here in this Republic/country earned by "tough" people who believe in each/this republic, that took Honor to deliver and "last resort" abortionists want to sacrifice LIFE before a first brEath can be taken under circumstances within/out of their control... as a Republic "WE THE PEOPLE" still have Mercy as is extended in our courts through "child support" but as abortionists/cowards/"last resorts" WHEN having your pitty party of what life brings fogs everyone not because of the situation but of the individuals involved and a future that "could" exsist ahead... AS cowards you will never be satisfied/content because of precieved "costs" but "a" partisipant in a Republic are resourceful, optimistic, energenic, tough and Honorable (bet the spelling is just killing you huh?) lol grow-up and join the living it's "fun" really it is even with the bumps, bruises, scrapes, scratches and "costs" it's called "living" I invite you live! You live in a wonderful country protected by those who Love LIFE! LIFE! LIFE! (I know you're confused even probably temper tampering now LOL!) BUT when MURDER is involved... we just look at you with pittiful eyes "which you" interput as sad eyes... LIVE AND LET LIVE!! but this is forgein to you... lol and couldn't have a REAL EMOTION OF ANY REAL "VALUE"... because you don't understand or want to ("costs") I bet your vehicles are serviced on time everytime BECAUSE of "costs" but you are scared! (you think) "I" don't know where "I" might be when "I" break down... lol guess what you'll be in AMERICA the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! (there is no "I" in WE or US)... lol but as "last resort" murdererS and convincing vunerable people is your tactic no wonder you're afraid and I'm told misery Loves company... lol ABORTION=MURDER...

[This message has been edited by RemnantSoul (5/10/2011)]

Another nut job heard from. RemnantSoul, please go back on your meds...

Man, that Bridgier guy really knows what he's talking about. You should totally listen to him, because he totally knows everything.

Also, RemnantSoul64 is a total moran.

I think we're witnessing E-Tourette Syndrome.

[deleted]

You're probably right, I thought it was Tourette Syndrome, but it's likelier the dialogue between two heads.

Remnantsoul, and the other guy that rehashed this post are both from Wyoming. Coincidence? I think not.

Careful Smiley.

I don't know - there's a lot of Bridgiers running around: and he did say he was totally not me. You don't think he was lying? That would be unpossible.

Webmaster, webmaster, a lesser of the two evils would be an asperin held tighly between the knees right "last resorters" because last I heard was an abortion is completely dead... but you are doing your job well webmaster, these cowards are stubbing their noses and ralleying themselves to feel good when all they gotta do is grow up live and let live... and quit trying to make an excuse for their cowardice... what a shamefull pity they live and know no value except what they can touch with their hands what simpletons... Cowards don't hurt yourselves when you decide to hurt youselves when yo are older and your life seems worthless BUT if you do decide to hurt yourselves don't screw it up and "cost" the rest of us your sorry mistake of not suceeding at it plz ask your aborter/murding Dr.'s to do you in and I bet sucessfully and I'm sure they'll oblige you... what a pity... but that's cool because ALL YOUR BELONINGS will be here for US to do... lol... aborters why don't you teach an asperin held tighly between the knees to prevent "last resort" murders... or does that make to much sense/cents... that way webmaster won't be confused... but I bet you are huh? Heck why not a Penny held tighly between the knees... spend a penny save life and NO Dr. bill. Naw that's to easy... right... think about it 100 pennies! Verse the "COST" of a bottle of asperins you get more with a roll of pennies!... but it will take a little effort and coordination to do this ya think ya can handle it (I mean demonstrate how to hold the penny between the knees) I have confidense in you to suceed a REAL PENNY FOR YOUR THOUGHTS.

douchebagsayswhat?

Remnant, what terrible advice. It is very easy to get pregnant with an aspirin between your knees. You just have to be a bit more flexible.

OMG, the education is getting worse in this country, I guess...How did RemnantSoul ever graduate from grammar school, let alone high school?? Agree Mary, just more flexible...

[This message has been edited by howdy (5/11/2011)]

I'd comment on Remnant's post if I could figure out what it says.

I'm with you Wendy.

Total ignorance = RemnantSoul. LOL - amazing he can even operate a computer!

[This message has been edited by Dona Stebbins (5/11/2011)]

I argued with myself about making a comment..but, somehow..I cannot refrain. RemnantSoul may just be onto something. It appears that there may be a "Free Market" opportunity here. Can't you visualize a "Gender Friendly" apparatus that could clamp on the knees with a slit for an aspirin? The potential is "limitless"!

Seriously...I think that Senator Kennedy said it best in his biography and I concur:

Do Not Criminalize Abortion

"The real transgression occurs when religion wants government to tell people how to live uniquely personal parts of their lives. In cases such as prohibition and abortion, the proper role of religion is to appeal to the conscience of the individual, not the coercive power of the State."

Yea but he was an idiot who had no problem killing his girlfriend. He was a real role model.

[This message has been edited by Gomer (5/11/2011)]

Children (muletrain, mary, howdy, wendy, c.kee, dona and jeri) you all make me smile with Love for ya all to see how easily you lose focus on the issue of killing a defenseless child maybe because in part you have none or already have participated in or about to participate in doing so... kill that is (focus) I hope one day you all will feel that you have some "real worth" to someone AND "know" that you DO... (focus focus)but I can see killing a defenseless child must give you a pittiful cheap thrill... (FOCUS!) muletrain really doughbad... I guess "respect" is a foreign idea in your vocabulary and what a use don't you know there are ladies present here? and mary mary mary more flexible what on earth are you thinking? (FOCUS)I thought we were discussing the "A" word and how to discourage/prevent it from happining (FOCUS)but if I understand your meaning there would be a way to get pregnant and not care at all to try to prevent it because the thrill (of course you would not admit it) of killing a defenseless human because of flexibility? Because of the flexibility passing the test is to destroy that life? Mary in your case of flexibility you'll have your own parking space at the death room/clinic huh? Oh yeah we can't forget howdy and c.kee too. (FOCUS)and then I imagine lol you'll want my/this Republic to pay for your sucessfull "flexability" and I guess muletrain you're the donor? Jeri I like the way you top it off comparing abortion and prohibition what is that a hidden motto or something take two shots and meet me at the death room/clinic anyways it's legal NOT EVEN WILL YOU RESPECT ME IN THE MORNING Oh yeah muletrain already answered that (FOCUS)... I'm supprised that the "last resort" and "zero population" cowards didn't jump in on this too but they must be showing that they are "flexable too" If ignorance=RemnantSoul (really focuc now K) coming from children like you I take it as a most welcomed compliment you all could give me really I lack the understanding of your flexibility to suceed in the distruction of a human being (focus) but then if I were in your current shoes of "worthlessness" I wouldn't probably want to take the chance of a duplicate in your shoes... but children you can't have your cake ice cream and have someone else pay for it too a human has already Oh yeah the "costs" of being a coward is much easier... sorry but the "answer is": ABORTION=MURDER and if done say "GOODBYE" to breathing "FREE" air. Hey there's a bright side looking at from your side of the street when your in the "CROSSBAR HOTEL" this Republic will be paying all your "COSTS" (FOCUS)so run and be good little children and sign on with me and others to make abortion a SERIOUS CRIME/MURDER and if mary's flexibility and all those who agree with her kill.(FOCUS) Your costs are "PAID" Watta ya say to that muletrain? just think muletrain your "bag" won't even be needed I'll be paying for it and we all win your "COSTS" will be paid and I won't have to concern myself with someone killing defenseless humans except for the unfortunate one that you did your "costs" paid... Oh yeah if it goes under ground let it then flexibility stops, the killing machine stops and maybe your cohorts will have their "costs" paid too....
I feel inclind to tell you children this too. When this is murder you'll know that I'll be looking for the "death penalty" to make a serious comeback but you knew that huh? My ignoracne was/is showing... (FOCUC) when your "flexability" results in another human being (now read closely get close to the computer because I am operating it you are "PARENTS" that means you are now called Father and Mother aka Dad and Mon, does that ring a flexible and agreeable bell?) I hope you could stay focused at least try if not "Please read again and don't be afraid to ask questions O.K. and I'll do my best to operate this CPU well... bigdier is in the "HOUSE" too. now repeat after me (focus, focus, FOCUS this is really easy) A B O R T I O N = M U R D E R stay focused focused focused.

You know, in the Bible, Gomer was a chick. I just found this out the other day, and thought some of you might find it interesting as well.

Carry on, remnantsoil, carry on...

At what point do we ask the police to check someone's welfare?

Hey Jeri!

I invite you here (of course if your not scared...) http://americanvoiceradio.com/ you too muletrain and the rest of you but if you don't I'll understand... jelly fish have the same problem... Hope to see you there really!

abortion=murder. Cool, I thought it was a safe, legal procedure done in America for women who
a) Were Raped
b) Were a victim of incest
c) Have religious background (Who's having abortions (religion)?
Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".) -from http://www.abortionno.org...facts.html
d) Can't raise a child because of age, situation, financial standing
e) Don't want a child left to the wayside in the foster care system
f) are in danger because of their pregnancy and WILL DIE along with their child if it was not aborted.
g) etc...

But apparently they are just vicious murders of innocent children. Good to know.... Ridiculous.

You know, in the Bible, Gomer was a chick. I just found this out the other day, and thought some of you might find it interesting as well.

OH! REALLY! Bridgier! Just the other day huh!!!! AND... who were you talking to your mommy... What did she tell you about abortions? Pull your "last resort" card...

So Smiley is that the totality of your list? Is the list finished? -OR- you just waiting for "ANOTHER" EXCUSE to murder? NO it's a way for YOUR responsibility in the murder (but uh isn't that called an acomplis to the murder? Uh YA!)to be "JUSTIFIED" with fake looks of sorrow... was Hitler your great great grandfather? or maybe Stalin was... Why don't you go to your mommy and ask her why she didn't add you to the list AND listen to her VERY CLOSELY... focus focus come on it's simple/easy...

Hitler is my homeboy, because I'm not going to dictate what one person can do with their body. *rolls eyes*

Personally, you are so ignorant that I hope someone 187's your ass quicker than you can say "abortion"

You ARE AN IDIOT. YOU MUST NOT HAVE VERY MANY FRIENDS, YOU REALLY SHOULD TAKE AN ENGLISH GRAMMAR CLASS, THEN PERHAPS A DEBATE CLASS SO YOU CAN DEBATE YOUR ISSUE. YOU MAKE PRO-LIFE LOOK BAD. PRO-LIFE PEOPLE WANT YOU TO STFU BECAUSE YOU ARE SO DUMB. DUMB DUMB DUMB. It's not defensive, it's just the plain truth and I'm tired of people sidestepping around it and calling you ignorant. YOU ARE EFFING STUPID.

ugh. Peace/

Smiley, of course ur not going to tell somebody what to do with their bodies because they won't be there you would of killed them off OOOOO 187 me off ur so brave how does it really feel to kill oh yeah we were talking about defenseless humans right in particular BABIES... that takes a real BRAVE ONE huh GROW up my child (who needs a rod so it woun't get soiled/spoiled... (ta da!) F O C U S

and thank you for ur concern over my friends, but I call them Brothers and Sisters do you have any? That was english that I spelt to ya... F O C U S M U R D E R = A B O R T I O N did that confuse you... one eight seven...

When did Charlie Sheen sign up for mc.com? Also, when did he move to wyoming

A quote from "Children for Auction"..author, Eldon Chapman..1978..
A Social Worker at the Montana Children's Center..Twin Bridges, MT.
The center was formerly an Orphanage...

"I hear people expressing opposition to abortions, institutions, and the like; but I never see these righteous, religious people who have the loud voice in the newspapers and on TV crowding into our institutions to take these children into their homes. Often, when we do place a child in a home, when the first little problem comes up the foster or group home wants the child returned to the institution."

Right to Life should include ALL children....the Born and the Unborn! (My opinion!)

Senator Kennedy does address the drowning incident in the book as well. I agree...it was a tragedy. However, it is a very good book.

Probably when he agreed to involve himself with the abortion issue smiley. What does sheen have to do with it anyways... where's the focus are we getting off issue if Charlie is of interest start another part in the forum (FOCUS)? Maybe he'll support a "Personhood Law" so no one ends up on a "excuse" list of "ignorance" (A,B,C,etc.) to be eliminated in (false) sincere conciense... and my Brothers and Sisters will have Peace from cowards who look at humans in "costs" or "last resorts" before they take a defensless breath... LIFE is to be LIVED and LOVE carries it through (smiley do you know Love) not "costs" and with that LOVE are sacrifices of LOVE not "costs", (was that foreign to you? Probably?)what a pitty smiley if such few are such a distraction to you "aborters" find another country and leave this Republic "one nation under God" and roll ur eyes while you go, Hey don't go away mad just go away... surely I feel bad for the country that you would end up at, but I'm "pretty" sure they wouldn't tolerate abortion/murder either as this Nation does... it takes awhile for this Nation to move but she's not a small nation... so if takes awhile to have to write a "Law" to protect it's "people" from folks with abortions on their minds it'll be because "we the people" did it as "a nation under God" and "God we trust" what a pitty you are where you are but more so for all that "have not" come to be and those convinced of "abotion" because of abotionists/murderers... stupid or otherwise it's very simple A B O R T I O N = M U R D E R and I welcome Charlie to the great state of Wyoming when he comes... sounds like he needs a break because last I hear he has no yob... so smiley you want a T-Shirt? I have sweats too. What size do you wear? I don't carry "one size fits all"...

[This message has been edited by RemnantSoul (5/12/2011)]

TotallyNotGomer needs a new hobby. Perhaps she should start writing biblical slash fanfic? Or perhaps anime? I don't know. Surely there must be a better use of her time and energy.

Jeri what's ur point with the quote? That they pulled a child from where it was (uninvited probably) didn't have a solution before they did it, so the child suffers because of their lack of logistics so now they find a scape goat for their incompetence, but that social worker surely cashed their check huh?, but Oh yeah that's another issue that can't be a connection right jeri we'll just put "that child on a shelf" and make an excuse for "incompetence" (jeri do they pay you if you don't do your job? Ah, that's to simple to answer because we don't know what you do yet do we?) Oh but I bet that social wrecker has a "degree" in sumtin huh? Anyways the child tain't theirs and they can't see the child from their house is what the wreckers are tinkin and all the while the child suffers Eldon Chapman is "WEAK" and should quit gettin paid for being incompetent and keep his pitty party to himself and grow up. Besides all that who invitrd them/him in the first place... is that to ignant fer you jeri? Is the quote supposed to make the decision for aborters to abort easier huh? Is my spelling, grammer confusing you jeri? Wha??? In the mean time another precious life is being taken away??? Confused jeri??? Killin defenseless humans is always the wrong answer still confused jeri??? Just because you didn't do the actual killing does not absolve you jeri still confused jeri??? LIVE and LET LIVE... now that's easy...

Jeri,
I read this post after your email. Unbelievable!! So Jeri, if you are a child to this weird poster that would make him or her what, 100? What a very odd person with a very odd way of expressing him or herself.

And yes, I'd love to see the right to lifers start a HUGE fund to care for all the children brought into this life who are unwanted. We have a LARGE church here and they proudly are popping out 6 or more kids in each family in order to raise ...get ready...AN ARMY FOR CHRIST!!! Perhaps they could simply adopt some unwanted children instead of creating more themselves.

Nothing is black and white. The children are the innocents in it all. And until adults stop making their own agendas their priorities children will continue to suffer.

Thanks, Kacey...I am really not very sensitive in my old age...and, feel that RemnantSoul certainly has a right to his/her opinion. I can respect that. I was really coming from the old adage, "Love the Fetus, Hate the child". It is such a puzzle that the folks who want legislation regarding the right to life...are often the same folks who will vote against help with childcare, meals, education,welfare, etc. I have also witnessed the "illegal" and "legal" status of abortion over the years...and, what a waste to argue about something that is so personal to whomever because they will do what they want when and if they have to make a decision and, who are WE to judge?
"Live and let live" is right on.

I'd ask RemnantSoul how many kids he's fostered but I think he's probably been too busy studying chemtrails.

Wendy can't you stay f o c u s e d? Chemtrails wha??? You sound almost like tour twin smiley with this one eight seven... BTW smiley what do you mean by that 187 is that a code for you need an I.D.I.O.T form to go shopping? Is that a road you travel or like to travel? -or- How many dreams ur having? Or is it diarreha of the brain housing group? Plz tell me... YOU CAN DO IT! Tell me, tell me com on your twin and I are waiting or should I know this number? Ae we playing "I spy"? You and your twin Windy seem to lose F O C U S to simply. Now spell it with me are you both ready A B O R T I O N = M U R D E R Ta Da! You only get a silver Star for the effort because I had to hold your... Jeri Im going out on a limb but tanks yes LIVE AND LET LIVE is RIGHT ON! and a NATURAL HIGH on "GROOVY LIFE" I can dig it can you dig it and it isn't a "Grave" Don't be sad Jeri with the Gov boys doing what they're doing we'll have enough graves to dig and put bodies in it, until the state church sheeple wake up... What some of the "HOMEBOYZ" that smiley claims to like have toyz that make the "Manhattan Project" and it's "PRODUCT" a litteral "firecracker" I call it "clean killing"... with the Man project there's limited area and a bad by product you know with this "new and improved" toy it has (now conservativly speaking) a fifteen mile killing radius and the clean part jeri in sixty to ninety days of course removing "ALL" the carcusus (human and animals [cause they tend to stink after awhile] you would never know that there was ever "death" there... in other words the "WHOLE CITY" of Milescity could be totally, cleanly eliminated and sixty to ninety days latter a whole new set of residense would be there because all structures and vehicles would not be damaged... so you see this abortion issue is to keep sheeple busy while the big toyz get in place then it won't matter either way UNLESS this HOUSE which is almost DIVIDED comes tumbling down "ON" us or U.S. OOOOPS! Did I do that I tink I got off F O C U S didn't I? So sodry... Jeri I have been on the road since I was a fourteen and been to a few countries other than this wonderful "REPUBLIC" and compared to some of the others those countries are GET THIS "laughing" their butts off at us... It's a real sorry pity "WE THE PEOPLE" are forgetting who exactly we are and our "VALUE" to each other even now that it has reach Mid America the foudational roots of where we stand and Declare we are AMERICANS! Where Proud, hard, giving, caring AMERICANS could find their stability... where your neighbor was your neighbor and the only bond required was ur word and a hand shake... where killing defenseless humans was sumtin city folk did and feel a sense of sorrow fer them thar city folks...BUT! none the less Abortion still equals Murder and any one associated in this or with this is "Guilty" as CHARGED and "Live and Let Live"

My Effing God. I just found the truth in that scrambled rant. Remnant Soul has a Remnant Brain.

awh, ohm. Peace.

(Focus)
Marijuana Laws

(Focus)
abortion=abortion

(focus)
enjoy crazy religious/political nutjob rants.

[FOCUS] I'm focusing. I still think you're a douche and I might be able to "focus" if you weren't so obtuse and ignorant. This is a case where we need the grammar police; You seriously committed a 187 on the whole English language.

So we have 162 posts of "Put up". Can we expect "Shut-up" any time soon?

So smiley you are a teacher and 187 is an education code/grade/statistic I'm supposed to be aware of? But smiley I'm confused or do you tink i'm not focused or sumtin because this is your statement right?

"Personally, you are so ignorant that I hope someone 187's your ass quicker than you can say "abortion""

Now you seem to be refereeeing to particular part of the body (then again it could be an animal which I don't own)and then you write "I hope someone" now does that mean you give the grade and "someone" delivers it??? Wha??? I do understant the ignant part (i tink)Wha??? You ARE a teacher/proffessor/professional/?? You sound/seem edumacated suntin... nervous... scared... undecided... Wha??? Hmmmm 187... Should I call my school district and ask them? Wha?? Maybe you like my a... but I'm a little embarassed decause I don't know you and ur talking that way... What will these nice folks in here tink that maybe "WE" have sumtin between us? Now folks I wanna go on record to let you all know "I have never met smiley" and she/he has never seem my... tain't that right smiley? Heck smilet you might be ugggggly!!... anybody in here knows what it looks like? Sorry folks got unfocused there fer a minute er two we were diskin 187 huh and A B O R T I O N... SO smiley you gonna edumacate me about that 187 bit ain't ya? Plz leave your phisical attraction to me outta it K... and lemme know just what the numbers mean K? Now only do you have to F O C U S but show some restraint too my red face don't match my clothes and don't want folks tinkin I'm ill or sumtin... tanks... Hear from you soon...

google is hard.

Bridgier smiley's pic is on google or you givin ur two bit's in? Ur idea (i tink) why don't you pastie it here fer us csuse to see (i might be able to read and deciphre it.. I'm ignant, heck Y not just tell ooops! write it fer us MAYbe I taint the only ignant one here two, MAYbe you two and to SCARed to show it Maybe a little ittcy tintcy bit I promise I won't laugh at you I'll laugh wit you I'm kinda ignant that way.. I'll be a waitin fer you pastie it fer us or is that "SECRETEE"!!!


We are awaitin...........

Aaron, good to hear from ya, buddy!

I'm pretty sure you're the only one who doesn't know what "187" is in reference to.

When I'm feeling overwhelmed with my life I can read some of these rants and realize how functional I still am!!! Thanks for the entertainment. However I worry about people who rant in long drawn out sentences. Sometimes they become a danger to themselves or others. Is there a need for a mental health exam here?

I'm fond of remnantsoul, his/her anonymous status is awesome.

Baby, I have no clue what the procreate you're talking about, but here's a pic I took last night. Now you post one since I wanna see your crazyness 187 refers to murder duh.



[This message has been edited by Smiley (5/13/2011)]

hey windy, wrong again....if i got something to say i will say it in person, lessin i gets booted offs the board masser......

Bigsky's finished up his court appearances, and he's ready to rumble...

bridgier, explain this.

every district in this nation that is impoverished has liberal democrat representation.

millions of black and latino children (future voters) are killed through liberal anti life policies and promotion. (abortion)

democrat liberal policies regarding oil exploration, gathering and refinement is causing the price of food and other comodities to rise to the point that the poor are havind to decide to eat or drive.

progressive policies regarding quanitative easing has caused inflation that,,, coupled with fuel prices, gives the less advantaged in this country to have to make hard decisions regarding feeding their children and driving to work.

you are an elitist, racist, infantracidal maniac, and you will reap what you sow one day. when the poor and the minorities wake up, and see you for what you are...i wont need to rumble, you will.

Wow, bigsky, you're procreateing stupid.

Mississippi public school stupid.

Bob L., he is one of the worst ever to post on here but oddly the grammer and spelling aren't as bad as others have been...Hmmmmmm, is someone pretending to be this dumb??

well, if i am so dumb then please tell me what the difference is between the democrat slave owners and the democrats of today.

1. slaves had free health care
2. slaves had free housing
3. slaves had free food
4. slaves had free clothing
5. slaves couldnt move away or change jobs


now lets look at u.s. citizens under liberal government.

1. we can look foreward to single payer health care
2. because of inflation, after housing costs, food, and clothing
there is nothing left over for leisure
3. because of the high cost of fuel we cant move and unless we find
a better job close by we better not change jobs.

so what exactly is the difference between dems owning slaves in the 1800's and dem policies enslaving us now.

if the majority of abortions are recieved by minorities, and dems are promoting the practice i feel it is safe to say that dems are promoting abortion on a racial curve

abortions are infantricide and those that think they are good are maniacs.

so where am i wrong here? hell i am not wrong i am simply looking at the issues through a different lense than you. do what you want and believe what you want, i choose not to align myself with your ideals, i want more out of life than that. thank God we are still free enough to make that decision.

aaron bruce.

ohhhhhhhhhhhh so big sky is actually aaron bruce. Interesting LOL

I think you're giving him far too much credit Bob.

It's the retard looking glass!

abortions are infantricide

Abortions mean killing the infantry?

I am confused. So struggle and strife in our life is a bad thing? Aaron is a friend of mine. A man of great internal strength. He approaches life with ambition and pride. For whatever situations his mother put herself into, and whatever his up-bringing lent to the way he is as a father, step-father, friend, and businessman, it was a success. I like the statement that...."funny that all the supporters of abortion are not a product of an abortion but instead a product of pro-life..."

We all get two chances in life. We may either HAVE great parents that care, are involved, have enough money to give us a comfortable life, or we may BE great parents that give that life to a child INSPITE of what WE had as kids. I am lucky enough to have had both, but many people very close to me had horrible childhoods, and have become the better for it on their own chance to parent. The only children that don't get either choice are the children of Abortion. Women are not FORCED to have sex, and get pregnant, especially the ones that are FREE to get abortions.

Lastly, I find it most enlightnening that the same people who want to kill an innocent unborn child, are the first in line to protest the 'Death Penalty' for violent criminals. Ironic.

Can't this thread just DIE a decent death? So tired of the idiocy displayed here - go back and crawl into your caves.

So..... if abortion remains legal, and a last option, then why not ban partial-birth abortions? Third trimester abortions? If abortion is a last possible option, why have PUBLIC tax dollars pay for it?

Would crime go down if we put in the paper that the police would no longer be punishing shoplifters? How about having a place where shoplifters could go to get free shopping bags to carry all the stolen merchandise? Or we could even use tax dollars to buy things from stores to let them steal 'safely' in a non-judgemental way?

Sex is fun, feels good, and has consequesnces.... like everything else in life. Can I eat 10 lbs of cake each day and not get fat? Can I rob a bank and stay free? Can I kill my newborn child without punishment? What makes the mother's womb the line we cannot cross? And if killing toddlers in the 'terrible twos' was legal, how many of us would have survived? And what about the 'terrible 19's'? My teenagers were more difficult and expensive than when they were two.

Abortion is a private matter? IS slapping you wife around a 'private matter'? How about starving a horse, beating a dog, or locking a child in the basement for several years? Are these private matters? Because none of the other things I listed ENDED a life. Life is to be lived, not wasted. I do not know a single woman, not one, that is satisfied that abortion was the right answer. Many want to keep it legal, a back door incase of emergency, but when you ask the ones that got an abortion, they say it was the worst thing they ever did in their lives, but they couldnt' take it back. I believe suicide is that way, but the victim never gets the chance to regret it.

Let he among you who has no sin be the first to cast a stone. Aaron has a right to 'face his accusers'. If you put your opinion on the line with nothing but anonymity, then you are a coward. People coming out of the woodwork to call him a bully is hilarious. We're almost 40. Act like it. You post things accusing Aaron of bullying, while hiding behind pen-names, just like cowards in a crowd shouting obscenities. But then again Abortion is for cowards, and nature used to cull the herd. What great minds, great leaders, great mothers and fathers never had a chance 'to be' due to the more than 3,000,000 abortions that have occurred since Roe v. Wade?

When men are forced to have an 8 lb basketball carried around in their privates for 9 months then endure the pain of passing that basketball for approx. 18 hours; not to mention having to buy bras to support the weight of their breasts and wake up for hours on end; let alone being responsible for that baby's every waking and oh yes sleeping needs - cause even a sleeping baby is needy. Women do all of this with a smile on their face, most often a job or two...or three to financially support the baby and a will to fight off anything that might stand in her way with the power of a Momma Grizzly....THEN and ONLY THEN can a man tell a woman they can't have an abortion. While there are some amazing men out there who do all of that, in general that child is left to the care of women. If a man is faced with going through the EXACT same things that a woman mentally, physically and emotionally face, sex would face extinction and would miraculously be empathetic to the abortion cause!!!! Abortion should NOT be a method of birth control...but come on men....it takes a sperm to create a baby - and now who is at blame again??? Come on people where is empathy in this already harsh world.

And now we've heard from TotallyNotAaron.

Only 3,000,000 since 1973?! I think you're off by a factor of 15 or so. But even so, estimates of pre-1973 abortions are that about the same number of abortions were being performed per year as after Roe. So I think focusing on abortion is a waste of effort. Education about contraception is much more important and the only thing that will reduce abortions significantly.

For information on the world trend in abortion check this out:

http://www.guttmacher.org...index.html

Howdy and Wendy - you are my heroes for the day (and more.)

While we are on this subject, does anyone happen to know what group is responsible for the billboard by the Metra, "Abortion......America's Holocaust"?

No, but it is disgusting IMO...After googling it seems to be a recurring theme among many anti abortion groups

[This message has been edited by howdy (5/14/2011)]

You mean anti-choice groups, howdy. Everyone is anti-abortion.

Upps, yep Wendy thanks for catching my error...am going thru some fairly heavy duty stuff here at home and by rights should stay the heck off the computer till it is over LOL...

Thanks, Wendy! You are "right on".

More compelling evidence that the gene pool needs a life guard.

Morning smilely, so 187 is murder? You would want someone to murder me before I could say "abortion" huh? and hilter is your homeboy? Hmmmmmm... and if in fact this is your pic what deadly beauty all wrap up in a package that "stings" with deadly words.. but regretfully would want to end the life with the chance of the stature of yours... Hmmmm murder in what kind of delivery or what kind of device or weapon? If your conviction is so strong to wish/impose so much harm on someone else? I understane the methods that are presumably used to eliminate these unborn is painfull/torturous to them but since we can't feel their pain or hear them scream it must be ok "muted" death... what a pity... for these murderous kind/types... it's too bad in hind site these mother's that go through these murders have to live with these desisions but the ones that can't find peace with their decisions are in misery and aching for company because they must have an excuse who beter than the partner who was involved and if not the partner they (I guess) must involved more participants so their misery can be shared and have a sick murdurous "common" ground with others... smiley I can't seem to appriciate your fondness for me and then you can't precieve what I'm talking about maybe someone in here can decipher or translate in your language of "black widor" or sumtin... "LIVE AND LET LIVE" smiley live a little go visit another country uh maybe a so called third world country huh what about it and rant there like you do here "THEN" I surely belive "LIFE" would take on a whole new meaning and I don't think that you have had the experience to "FEEL" what taking a life when it struggling to LIVE if all the cowards did the HONOR and RESPECT for life would be more precious but "if" that hasn't happened smiley "life" isn't a video game with a "ON" and "OFF" button... ya just can't say "do overs"... so all you killers of defenseless humans "GROW UP" and keep an aspirin held tightly between your knees... and this thread/forum need not be here and we could write about the hikes, hunting, the alnight dancing we done, etc. and concentrate on being a "Republic" of the begining of this great country and be watchfull for what is happening around us NOW... again the device makes the Manhattan Project a "firecracker" and the "clean death" that it brings is cammo'd is such a way that the ignant don't realized they are being "culled" smiley's homeboy and his cronnies were the experts of their times and broke ground for the take over of the "WORLD" yes her homeboy broke "cherry" ground and is prepared for this "Republic" to be placed there... if we don't wake up... folks keep an eye on Japan and "LEARN" how controled/stratigic MURDER takes place... and when WE hear that the UN is bringing/stationing troops on this soil say bye-bye to what you consider your liberties and phenomenons that will tramspire then, AND the race card is gone gone gone it will be equal opportunity murder/death... OOOOps FOCUS...

So Donna what would be a decent "death" huh? everyone agreeing to your murderous action? Grow up... and go pick on some one who will know the lights out of your sockets and take your literal pitiful breath away... the diareha comin from you mouth is obnoxious as the paperwork needed to clean it up after a dump... unless I know otherwise take your digits and poke some other wheres else who wants you in here with your stench anyways I for sure will not miss you so go A W A Y and if you wanna go A W A Y mad THEN DO IT... Oh yeah you're one of those who love company because of your miserable life and I wonder what's your number NO DON'T be so vain it taint your phone number lol shooo go a way...

bigsky ur wastin ur time to ask brigett to explain sumtin like you asked because this person has no common sense because this person probably has never left the county line other than fer murder probably and if this person can't find it here on the net or a book well let's just say this person is a pitifull "windbag" and probably afraid of shadows and wonder who's voice it is when flagelence is released lol this person is "special" and a "legend" in their "PEE" brain...

Did you just suggest that I'm a murderer? That's a rather libelous bold statement.

You'd never prove it in court. I've read more comprehensible healthcare legislation.

Nuts - absolutely nuts! Remnantsoul is not only lacking in education, but completely devoid of any common sense whatsoever. But I do love checking this thread out in the morning - it gives me my laugh for the day! So nice to know that there are still loonies out there, off their meds, supporting the tea bagging goofballs, and depleting the collective gene pool by reproducing at random.

Luckily, rs tends to insult me at the bottom of his screeds, which is helpful, as then I don't have to read all the mish-mash that proceeds the part that relates to me.

I almost feel bad for smiley, buried in the middle of all that.

RemnantSoul brings me fond memories of Ship. Ah, the good old days.

Tramspire?

oooh, good zing! Well deserved too.

Here is a perfect opportunity to put your money where your mouth is...

http://milescity.com/foru...pid=195826

This is for you "last resort" and "Pro-choice" individuals... I'm not really sure you'll be able to understand or see the "agenda" here? this flic that has the "Economic Hit Man" in it... you might recognize the language related to the NCC, WCC and UN...

http://www.zeitgeistaddendum.com/

Hope you'll watch it to the end if you aren't to...

I've never posted here before, but I couldn't resist with this topic:

I think I need some diazepam, or a stiff drink.

First off, I don't think any women on her list of dreams and goals has abortion written on it anywhere.
Second, if my daughter was ever raped or the recipient of an unintended pregnancy regardless of fault, you bet your sweet arse I am giving her four birth control pills- STAT. We are pretty open about contraception, the ideas surrounding it, cultural expectations, etc. We tell our kids we would prefer they wait until they are married, but ultimately we want them to be educated and mindful of the choices they are making.
I have been a foster child, a foster parent and an adoptive parent of a child with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, Juvenile Alzheimer's, and a boatload of initials after his name. He is my biological brother ( yes, you read that right ) He became my son through adoption and although my birthmother is a piece of corn-and-peanut-poop who never laid eyes on him the courts drug his adoption proceedings over four years.
When people spout adoption as a viable alternative to abortion I want to perform harikari on myself. The fact is people are not adopting the children languishing in care right now.

Regardless of my religious affiliation, I do not want people making laws that take our personal rights away. Ever. As one of thise crazy home educators who (gasp) supports home birth, clean eating, religious freedom for all, including those who choose no religion, gay marriage, et all, I need to retain my freedoms; you can be sure I will not support taking the rights away from another group of people whether I agree with those choices or not.

Jade, you'll find that loonies such as RemnantSoul won't see the reasonableness or indeed, the morality, of your stance. But they aren't the ones adopting unwanted babies. Kudos to you!

For me, the easiest test to determine if one of these forced-birthers really cares about actual people or is more interested controlling women's sexual choices, is to ask the question: if you could reduce the number of abortions by raising taxes, would you? It's amazing how fast a person who can cry a veritable river of tears over the fate of a fetus in someone else's womb becomes an exemplar of cold-hearted FYIGMism.

is to ask the question: if you could reduce the number of abortions by raising taxes, would you?

Ding! Thank you, Bridgier. I believe if you go back to the original post (by yours truly), that was the original question presented.

And if you review the responses from the Anti-Choice crowd in the 200+ posts in this thread, none of them addresses that question.

Wendy windy you must be a last resort person... huh? I'm not so bold to think that I can step in place of God... It is good that this person is taking care of the child BUT! She didn't get an arm broke to do this... I would like to believe she did it out of Love does anyone in here remember that word L O V E maybe not. I'm glad that she can relieve some stress here... Murder is still murder no matter how you want to camaflauge it. It don't appear that you didn't watch the flic I attached here... Those folks in there just need a reason to put peoples lights out and this kind of nonesense opens doors of regret later and Of course that's a different subject huh?

You Folks probably don't think that what happenend in Germany during WWII didn't happened (hitler is smilies homeboy). Of course you cowards have never been in a situation when lights are about to be taken out... you need some one else to do what you won't do... and murdering a helplsess and defenseless child must be a walk in the park ya just need an excuse huh? LIVE AND LET LIVE wake up before you're on a death list.

Umm... we ALL are on a death list.