Your Faith Is A Joke
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Posted by Kelly (+2804) 11 years ago
by Pat Condell
Found this on the net and thought I'd pass it along since it is so close to Christmas.


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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15311) 11 years ago
Well.... Mr. Reed will be proud.

I wish I could wrap my brain experientially around what he is saying.
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Posted by Kacey (+3159) 11 years ago
He is contributing to the stupidity of the human race despite his statement about NOT doing that exact thing. I wonder what he's so afraid of that he felt the need to drone on like that.
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Posted by Steve Sullivan (+1409) 11 years ago
I think he has just gotten fed up with the overly religious folks telling him what he should do and how he should behave. He has a right to his opinion. How can anyone say that what Pat believes is any less concrete than what they believe? That would be very hypocritical.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6108) 11 years ago
The man in the video is direct, but I don't disagree with him. As I like to say, he may be wrong, but he's not incorrect. If I went around town screaming at the top of my lungs that Santa was real and was coming to town in a week, I would be seen as a nut, subject to ridicule, scorn and possibly, imprisonment/commitment.

Theists seem to think there's a difference between their gods and Santa Claus. There isn't, save for the minor trifle that millions of people haven't been killed and/or tortured in the name of Santa.

The man in the video instantly brought to mind two Mencken quotes that I have posted here before. It's been awhile, so here they are:

"We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.

True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge."


Besides, nothing the man said in the video said is nearly as offensive to me as the concept of infinite punishment for finite - if not completely victimless and downright silly - "sins." How religion is supposed to be a basis for morality when so much of it is founded on such a disproportionate response for the trivial is beyond my mortal brain.

The concept of hell is a far greater vulgarity and insult to humanity than anything the man in the video said. Thanks for posting it, Kelly.
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Posted by Bill Freese (+479) 11 years ago
Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.

Good luck with that. Most folks, faced with their hideous folly in the light of day, seem to think that it looks pretty good.
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Posted by Diane Emeney (+492) 11 years ago
I don't agree with what he said at all..but I do agree with the concept that anything can be made to appear a joke just by the use of certain words.

My faith is not a joke, my faith is mine I don't feel the need to ridicule someone else's beliefs or lack thereof..and I guess I don't appreciate someone feeling the need to do it to mine. I'm not in the habit of making fun of things I don't understand, I would rather make the effort to understand, even if I don't accept those beliefs for my own.

[This message has been edited by Diane Emeney (12/20/2010)]
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
I don't really understand the "Survival of the Fittest culminates in Humanist Utopia" faith either. Makes Santa Claus seem pretty reasonable to me.

That said, I'd guess anyone who would compare Christ to Santa Claus hasn't really given either subject all that much thought.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6108) 11 years ago
That said, I'd guess anyone who would compare Christ to Santa Claus hasn't really given either subject all that much thought.

C'mon, Rick. You can do better than that. I've spent A LOT of time thinking about the subject. You should know that by now.

Rather than be arbitrarily dismissive, humor me by telling me exactly how Jesus Christ (or any other example of theist mythology) is so different from Santa Claus as to be ill-suited for comparison.

To me, the parallels are numerous and obvious.
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Posted by Smiley (+847) 11 years ago
I'm on your side Brian, but I would like to point out that there is sufficient evidence that Jesus lived, walked the earth, and visited many of the places my favorite fairytale mentions. St. Nicholas was also real, but I doubt he was an old white guy that lived at the northpole and made children happy with gifts. So, we got one difference.

Similarities:
Both have little to no evidence proving their existence today(speaking of God and Santa Claus)
Neither have evidence (that is testable) proving magical or supernatural powers.
Both are taught to Children as truth from a very young age.
Both are used for.. um... moral reinforcement (do good or else).
Both God and Santa are depicted as old, wise, white, empowered men.
Neither God nor Santa have ever shown there physical being to anyone who could testify about it.

Differences:
Santa has never caused a war (except perhaps in schools and civil work)
Santa likes reindeer, cookies, elves, and Mrs. Claus. God likes death, disease, slavery, polygamy, racism, truth, jealousy, judgement, and love.
Jesus was pretty crazy imo, Santa is just cool.
Most adults know Santa isn't real, most adults blindly believe in God.
After about age 9, kids stop worshipping Santa. Real christian grown ups worship God for along time.


So, is anyone down to become a santaist? I mean, he at least brings us real presents when we're kids. Not like that God guy that men created to control the world... he brings crappy gifts that we don't even get until we die, so we know he's never bringing them.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
Smiley alluded to this but I guess it would help to know what direction you're coming from.

I know where you're at on the Son of God part, but outside of that, who do you believe Jesus is (or was)?

And Smiley, people kill people. That we know. We can compare 'Christian' to 'Atheist' body counts (again) if you want. It's not really all that favorable to you, particularly over the last century.

But in general it's a dangerous game to take the ruthlessly powerful at their word for what they really truly believe. Expedience is always a factor.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 11 years ago
I think there was probably a dude who was the Jesus we refer to, but I think some of his feats may be a bit exaggerated. It's really the spirit of the thing that matters, right?

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (12/21/2010)]
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Posted by Kelly (+2804) 11 years ago
And Smiley, people kill people. That we know. We can compare 'Christian' to 'Atheist' body counts (again) if you want. It's not really all that favorable to you, particularly over the last century.


Rick,

Is Hitler on your list?
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
Not really. Stalin and Mao are all you really need. But anyway the point is the red revolution was arguably the first example of sovereign atheism. But everywhere it went ended up drenched in blood. Hardly a ringing endorsement of mankind untethered from God
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Posted by Kelly (+2804) 11 years ago
Fettered to god...

Catholic priests raping children, and the church covering it up.
The Spanish Inquisition.
The Crusades.



[This message has been edited by Kelly (12/21/2010)]
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2732) 11 years ago
While I'm on the topic of Churches and thread topics, this thread title (Your Faith Is A Joke) caused me some pause a few days ago when Kelly first posted it. I have to admit that my first reaction was "Gee, can't we all just get along?"

Then, on further reflection, I realize my faith is a joke and I laugh at it all the time. My faith is ludricously ridiculous and pathetically weak.

BUT - it's also the strongest, most reliable and utterly indestructible thing I possess. Nobody can destroy it, nobody can steal it, and nobody can prove it wrong.

Go ahead, try. I double dog - ah hells bells, I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2732) 11 years ago

Catholic priests raping children, and the church covering it up.
The Spanish Inquisition.
The Crusades.


Those aren't jokes. Those are atrocities.

They also have nothing to do with my faith. Absolutely nothing. A group's religion maybe -- but not an individual's faith.

Those are two very different things.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15311) 11 years ago
BUT - it's also the strongest, most reliable and utterly indestructible thing I possess. Nobody can destroy it, nobody can steal it, and nobody can prove it wrong.

Go ahead, try. I double dog - ah hells bells, I TRIPLE DOG dare ya!


Why am I picturing Mr. Crapduck with his tongue frozen to a flagpole?
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2732) 11 years ago
Zableut. Zableet! Zhiza bleeet bluut!
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6165) 11 years ago
Somebody get some warm water.
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2732) 11 years ago
OMG --- Wendy!!! I hope I spelled "zableut" correctly.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
Catholic priests raping children, and the church covering it up.


http://www.dailymail.co.u...gnore.html

Marta was one of two million German women who were raped by soldiers of the Red Army - in her case, as in so many others, several times over.

The Spanish Inquisition.


http://en.wikipedia.org/w...eath_tolls

García Cárcel estimates that the total number processed by the Inquisition throughout its history was approximately 150,000. Applying the percentages of executions that appeared in the trials of 1560-1700 - about 2% - the approximate total would be about 3,000 put to death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...eph_Stalin

Researchers before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union attempting to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million.
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Posted by J. Dyba (+1350) 11 years ago
I can't believe I'm jumping into this mess but...(I'm not an atheist for the record)

This comparison of atrocities is laughable from a Christian perspective,

Atrocities happened in the name of God vs. atrocities happened under the leadership of someone who professed no belief in a higher power.

Where do you see atheists pushing an agenda of "be kind to your fellow man|turn the other cheek|forgive the sinner"? How does some moron in history killing millions of people who also happened to be an atheist undermine the argument being made by atheists? It just further underlines how the belief in a benevolent being who cares and loves his flock is silly seeing how much suffering *it* allows to occur in our world.

It's a ridiculous premise to push forward as an argument against atheism.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
I think you're approaching your logic from the wrong direction.

The claim was made (again) that Jesus (or belief in Jesus) has CAUSED war.

Imagine if I made the claim that drinking coffee CAUSED cancer. When asked for proof, I state that 5% of people who drink coffee eventually develop cancer. When someone points out that 5% of all people probably develop cancer eventually I say "Well I made no claims about other people, we're only talking about Coffee Drinkers here"

If the claim is 'religion' CAUSES war, any attempt to prove would have to look at a control group, ie those who profess no religion. If that group is shown to be no better, or even worse (as I would claim), you can't credibly hold up religion as the cause of war in the world.

Now pointing this out doesn't excuse any of the action. Christian leaders (if that's really what they were) shouldn't have been involved in stuff like that. Definite hypocrisy involved. But I'd say that anytime you have a leader of the masses exterminating innocents, you will always find hypocrisy on some level. Or outright lying.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 11 years ago
In debates with Rick, the burden of proof always lies with whoever is not Rick.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15311) 11 years ago
OMG --- Wendy!!! I hope I spelled "zableut" correctly.


Come on, Steveo! The proper form in an atheist thread is:

O[][] --- Wendy!!! I hope I spelled "zableut" correctly.
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Posted by Bill Freese (+479) 11 years ago
Here is a way to counter the charge that religion leads to war: The next time members of your religion are having a vote to go to war, vote NO.
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
The burden of proof falls on the person claiming cause and effect.

If I'd made the claim that Theocratic Christian States were the best prescription for world peace, you might have something.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 11 years ago
Except you could find a control group and you still wouldn't consider it proof because I think Jesus was a dude and you think Jesus was the truth the way and the light... and on and on.

Maybe she should have said, people who engage in Christianity are also likelier to engage in military action toward non-Christians than these coffee drinking atheists are to engage anyone... anwhere... about anything. People should probably be insulted when Rick defines who is an atheist.

War-like Atheist Control Group -> http://www.telegraph.co.u...aphed.html

[This message has been edited by Buck Showalter (12/22/2010)]
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4463) 11 years ago
People should probably be insulted when Rick defines who is an atheist.


So far I've stuck to people who proudly proclaimed themselves so. There are plenty more... would you like to hear?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9430) 11 years ago
Oh for procreate's sake...

WE'VE HAD THIS DISCUSSION BEFORE.

Authoritarians will use whatever power structure is handy to exert their authority. ONLY A PROCREATING MORON will sit and wonder if christianity or atheism generates larger mass graves, because IT'S JUST AN EXCUSE ANYWAYS -

If you are a totalitarian, you're going to do terrible things because you're a totalitarian, not because you're an athiest or a christian.

EYES ON THE BALL PEOPLE.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4461) 11 years ago
ONLY A PROCREATING MORON will sit and wonder if christianity or atheism generates larger mass graves, because IT'S JUST AN EXCUSE ANYWAYS -


...because it's clearly christianity.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9430) 11 years ago
Well, obviously.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15311) 11 years ago
One piece of evidence that God made man is that monkeys don't make beer.
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Posted by Steve Craddock (+2732) 11 years ago
I think that is the first irrefutable argument that Richard has ever posted.
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