City County Planning Board
Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
If the City County Planning Board is not a city board nor a county board, but an independent board with it's own authority,,,,,,, how does it get paid, who decides who is on it and how does it govern?Are they self appointed, don't they have to answer to anyone? Seems like no one is for sure on this matter. Sounds kind of scarey to me.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Stop being scared. The City-County Planning board has eleven members, five appointed by the city, five by the county and one by the water district. It is an ADVISORY board. It reviews things like subdivision plans to make sure that roads are the proper width and right of ways have been dealt with. Then it recommends to the appropriate legislative authority whether to approve or deny the subdivision. That's it. It operates under city, county and state statute.

The appointments are made by the City Council or the County Commissioners. They are UNPAID VOLUNTEERS. There is NO budget for salary, just for paperwork, like mailing notices to affected property owners, if required, or making photocopies of plot plans.

The City-County Planning Board (of which I am a member) has NO STATUTORY AUTHORITY. We can make recommendations and give advice but that's it. Final approval of any planning activity comes from the City Council or the County Commissioners or both.

Planning has NOTHING to do with annexation. Annexation is a long, complex process that involves two votes, lots of public notification and hearings. The only thing planning does is make sure than any subdivision being developed MEETS CURRENT CODE. That way, if, in the future, that property is annexed, it will meet existing requirements for street width, right of way, and utility access.

Zoning is another board. Like planning, it is volunteer and is ADVISORY ONLY. We give our advice to the City Council to be accepted or ignored.

I am the chairman of the Zoning Board, which I have been a member of for about ten years. We are short members, if you like would like to apply. I have been on the Planning Board for about two years. During that time, we have done thrilling things like approving the width of streets in a couple of minor subdivisions and making sure all the legal language was correct.

If you have any questions, I can answer them or John Kountz can answer them. There is nothing mysterious or dangerous about either planning or zoning. In truth, they are pretty darn dull.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
Luckily, the death panels won't have nearly so much red tape.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Oh, man. We have to read state statue and other thrilling documents. Sometimes, the excitement nearly overwhelms us. (Truthfully, members have nodded off now and then.)
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
After reading the Miles City Star, Monday, October 25, 2010,,, if that is all you as a planning board, do, there sure is alot of hooplah for some reason. Care to comment on that? How can the planning board or zoning board tell Mr. Liedholt about his barn or fence? Hmmmm
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
Hmmm.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
Indeed.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 10 years ago
The City-County Planning board has eleven members, five appointed by the city, five by the county and one by the water district. It is an ADVISORY board.


Sounds like Socialism to me.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
Needs a czar.
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Posted by Mayor (+133) 10 years ago
Good question, mtliz. I was puzzled by that comment during the public hearing as well. The only restriction against the erection of a barbed wire fence would be within the city limits where it is considered a public nuisance (Sec. 15-7, Code of Ordinances)

There is nothing in the zoning ordinance or in the role of the City/County Planning Board that would prevent the use of barbed wire fencing beyond the city limits.

I'll be monitoring this thread for other questions arising from the hearing and I would encourage anyone within the planning jurisdiction to come forward with them. The decision to ratify, amend, or dissolve City/County Planning Board is far too important to the community to be driven by ignorance, willful or otherwise.

Joe
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 10 years ago
I am the chairman of the Zoning Board, which I have been a member of for about ten years. We are short members, if you like would like to apply. I have been on the Planning Board for about two years. During that time, we have done thrilling things like approving the width of streets in a couple of minor subdivisions and making sure all the legal language was correct.
---------------------


What if one is tall? How short do you have to be to be a member?
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Posted by blake beeler (+187) 10 years ago
How about Stay out of the county ... we dont need your poop out hear
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
Enjoy your orange teeth.
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
I'm curious about this county vs. city mentality. What portion of the county residents' property taxes are paid toward our school district? What portion of these same county residents send their kids to school in the school district?
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Posted by Stone (+1592) 10 years ago
"we don't need your poop out hear"

What, I can not here you. Can you here me way out hear?

"We are short members,"-Bob I do not know about you but Amorette does have a short member.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
I was asking questions seriously, and appreciate the time of those that took them like that and answered me.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
CCDHS? Custer County District High School? Hmmm suggests the whole county doesn't it?
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
I don't care what the name suggests. Does Washington Middle School suggest that the school is funded by the state of Washington? Washington D.C.? Washington's heirs?

I am still waiting to hear what portion of the county residents' property taxes are paid to the school district as compared to the city residents'. Is it equitable? I'm truly curious. It used to be that the split was not equitable. Has this changed?
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
I am not sure but thought that the portion of taxes that was distributed out for schools went through the State? but I could be misinformed.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
I am also not sure, what the property taxes of the city residents and the county residents have to do with mentality? this suggests what?
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
It suggests that county residents don't want any part of the city's services...except for when they do.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
In your opinion, what services does the city provide to county residents that the county residents don't seem to want to accept?
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
"How about Stay out of the county ... we dont need your poop out hear"
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
Rather childish don't you think???????????/ I live in the county, do you?
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
Sigh...
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Posted by David Schott (+16723) 10 years ago
I am still waiting to hear what portion of the county residents' property taxes are paid to the school district as compared to the city residents'. Is it equitable? I'm truly curious. It used to be that the split was not equitable. Has this changed?

Are you suggesting that residents of Custer County who live outside the city limits of Miles City don't have kids to educate and don't benefit from having an educated society? It very possibly costs more to educate the "country" kids because you lose the economies of scale operating smaller, rural K-8 schools and you have additional transportation costs for both K-8 and high school students.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
Did you notice the comment was from VA and not MT?
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
The comment is not from Virginia. This comment is also echoed by many other county residents. I hear it most from people who live out in the county and enjoy the lower property taxes associated with it but still enjoy the benefits of sending their kids into town for school, which is subsidized by property taxes paid by the city's residents.

Now, if this has changed, and county residents pay toward the school district as city residents do, I apologize. I haven't seen this change.

What I am trying to get across is that instead of everybody worrying about what they are or are not getting from either the city or the county, and what they are or are not paying for, everyone should realize that they all benefit in some way or another for services they do not pay for and vice versa. It is the nature of the beast. The city/county animosity has gotten out of hand.
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Posted by David Schott (+16723) 10 years ago
I agree with you Mary B. I think there is a select few county residents with a "freeman"/"Tea Party" attitude. They make a lot of noise but it's mostly just that: noise. As much as they want to pretend that they live a solitary existence they are members of society and are subject to the benefits as well as the burdens thereof.
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Posted by mtliz (+17) 10 years ago
Residents (house) in the county are assessed separately from land in the county. Also, livestock are assessed separately. All of these things, whether property or personal property are taxed and a portion is directed to school taxes. So If I were to have a 3000 head ranch, my school tax contribution would be rather high. I am not sure how you compare what he pays to what she pays, but I am sure most tax payers feel they are paying their equal portion. I pay school taxes and have no children.
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
Like David said, it benefits society to have educated children so it really doesn't matter if you have no children or ten. It is to everyone's best interest to educate our area's kids or who else will return to be our doctors, lawyers and such? I think everyone in the county should pay the same percentage of their property taxes toward the school district. We all benefit either directly or indirectly. It used to be that if you lived outside of city limits, but sent your kid to school in town, you paid a fee to do it, but I've been told that has been done away with.
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Posted by Steve Allison (+977) 10 years ago
Yes Mary B. if one was in say the Kinsey or Kircher school area and wanted to send a child into Miles City, there was a cost. This was figured because your school tax dollars had gone to the Kinsey or Kircher Schools and you where asking the city school to add to it's expenses. I am not sure if the cost still applies or not. The best place to look for that answer would be with the county superintendent of schools who's office is in the county courthouse.
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Posted by montanaman (+293) 10 years ago
One thing the mayor is trying to do is to increase the city limits with this planning board 4.5 miles.After all he is the one that brought it up, with it in the city meeting notes I've read online. Increasing the city limits that way the city can get it fingers on your property taxes and include special city fees for people that are in the county and drive up there taxes.He is just trying to drum up city buisness. They cannot manage the budget with what they have for monies so he is trying to increase the tax base for the city. I hope this write in mayor is a one time term person.He needs togo back to California or North Dakota where he belongs.
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Posted by boxdmc (+97) 10 years ago
I lurk here some but don't often post but I can't keep quiet here. All property is taxed and some of those taxes are assesed to the School Dist in which that property is located. The city property owners DO NOT foot the bill for all the schools. Everyone in the county pays for the HIgh School as there is only one and then the districts are broken up into elementary. Look at your property tax statement. It says where you pay taxes to and how much.

As for the schools "charging" for out of district students, not gonna happen. That is because the other funding mechanism for the schools is the State of MT. Each year they count students enrolled on 2 seperate days (1 spring 1 fall) and they use the ANB (Average Number Belonging) to determine how much State money the schools will get. More students, more money. It would be costly to turn away students.

As for the City County Planning. I believe when the state allowed this sort of thing to happen it was because the cities of the state didn't want to annex an area that was full of problems. In our case the city hasn't annexed anything in a long time. Was milestown new to the city? Anyhow, Miles City for many years did building permits and code enforcement in that 4 1/2 miles radius until the state supreme court told Bozeman they couldn't. There are good reasons to have a Joint Planning Board but it seems we've once again got selfish with our toys in the sandbox. Let's all play nice shall we and work for the common good of our community.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
THE CITY-COUNTY PLANNING BOARD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANNEXATION.

NADA.

ZIP.

It has been around, in one form or another, for decades to make sure that property that is subdivided meets certain standards and those standards are different for property that is close to the city limits than is out in the middle of nowhere. Just as we require sewer lines in town and allow septic systems out-of-town. Density. Possibility that the adjacent property might someday be annexed is part of it but only part of it.

HOWEVER, the Mayor CANNOT annex property into the city. To do so requires two votes, separate ones for both the city and the county, and must be approved by a majority of freeholders. If the majority of freeholders protest, no annexation can take place. The City County Planning Board DOES NOT enter into it.

Using fear and fake threats to make something simple into something demonic is just plain silly.

The City County Planning Board makes sure that streets are the correct width as required under city and/or county code. They make sure that legal language is correct. That access for utilities and right-of-way is correct. Then they recommend to the governmental authority with power whether they think the subdivision should be accepted or rejected. If it is rejected, code MUST be cited for the rejection.

One more time:

THE CITY COUNTY PLANNING BOARD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CITY LIMITS OR ANNEXATION.

Here, let me repeat that in case you missed it the first time. Or the second time.


THE CITY COUNTY PLANNING BOARD HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CITY LIMITS OR ANNEXATION.
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Posted by Mary B. (+197) 10 years ago
"As for the schools "charging" for out of district students, not gonna happen."

It has already happened. This was the old practice. I was told it was discontinued exactly because of...

"More students, more money."

But, city residents' kids are also counted in those government dollars, so this taxation practice seems a little unfair. The idea that county residents don't have to pay for the facilities they are using via their kids because the facility is getting government money for their kid when the facility also gets government money for the city kid, but the city kids' parents also support the facility through their property tax dollars.

"Let's all play nice shall we and work for the common good of our community."

Bingo. With all of this I am saying the very same thing. It is all about the good of the community. We can all find ways that we use more than we pay for and pay for more than we use. I brought up the school taxes as an example because of the complaints county residents make about not wanting anything to do with services (one specifically on this thread), but sometimes forget they get advantages of these services, like being able to send their kids to Lincoln or Highland Park because they don't like or want to use one of the rural schools.

To add a little bit more information to the conversation because I think some of the prior comments have been misleading, there are taxes taken out of a county resident's taxes for schools (rural schools), but please don't think it is the same as what is taken out of a city resident's for schools. Looking at a county statement and comparing it to a city statement as I type this, a city property that is worth less than half of a county property pays almost double what the county property pays. Is this fair? No. Do I hear county residents complaining about this as they send their kids in to elementary school? No. Back to the above paragraph.

[This message has been edited by Mary B. (10/26/2010)]
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Posted by montanaman (+293) 10 years ago
Let's read writing on the wall you know where this is goining and it's about increase in taxes and reveue. The city had recieved $19,000.00 last year part of which was the counties money for the board in fees. The county didn't keep any of it and the city used it this is the way its also done the city takes and takes.And there are more fees when your in the city on yours taxes.
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Posted by boxdmc (+97) 10 years ago
Ammorette: I said the reason for the state allowing development of the planning boards was for future annexation. You explained perfectly why the planning board was needed and it's role for annexation. I'm sorry if I inferred that they were part of annexation.

As for the school tax allocation I'll check on that. I'm pretty sure the property value is taxed at the same percentage no matter where in the county it is. The key there is it's taxable valuation of that property. Propety values are higher in the city according to the assesor.

The students are only counted in the school they are attending at that time. It is likely that if my children are attending the school in which district they reside they would be getting my property tax dollars as well as the state's ANB money.

I'm not looking for an all out fight here I'm just looking to shed some light.
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+620) 10 years ago
One thing the mayor is trying to do is to increase the city limits with this planning board 4.5 miles.


I'll admit to working to retain a planning jurisdiction of 4.5 miles. But, contrary to your assertion, that planning jurisdiction was initially ratified by the Custer County Commission and has been the basis of our land use planning for both City & County since 1977.

A planning jurisdiction is different from our city limits. The jurisdiction is simply the area considered by the planning board when reviewing growth policy and/or reviewing subdivisions. As Amorette rightly states, the City/County Planning board acts only in an advisory capacity to the City Council and the County Commission on land use issues. It's a very diligent board and it's heavily constrained by state law in its work.

Please tell me, what is your concern over the planning jurisdiction?
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Posted by Daniel k allen (+41) 10 years ago
I wonder just how many of you would be on this forum if you were under the age of 50 and in the construction field. My guess,probably very few. So I am guessing that most of you are older than 50, and have a desk type job. I am just learning about politics, and in a town like this, to see so much division is a bad sign. I have heard stories from city officials, about possible bribes to not bring felony sex crime charges against people. And I heard tell of a mayor being outed from office because he stepped on his words. And I have been looked down on like I was stuck to the shoe of judge. I did not have to see this judge, I just wanted to meet my city offcials. And I must say I was scared to ask him the question I really wanted, the disdain in his eyes rattld me. So I will say my question here so I can not be arrested or retaliated against. I fell that haveing the poice investigate the complaints against there fellow police, is like the fox guarding the hen house, and for the future of my kids this scares me. There is no cops and robbers, there are good people and bad people, with and with out badges.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
And that has what to do with the City County Planning Board? Or sanity, for that matter.
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Posted by BD (+338) 10 years ago
The thing is that why isn't this Board City-County board, trying to get services to the county side of town by the river. I realize that it would cost to put in the services but there are alot of people living in this area that don't have services. Over by Tatro, Roberts, and other Streets like Alice, It's terrible that these people would like to have water and Sewer and if they have a problem with the system they have their house could be condemned. Really a poor way to run a city or county. They pay taxes but don't get anything for their money.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Sigh. Because the City County Planning Board has NOTHING to do with services. It has to do with recommending approval for design plans for subdivisions.

If people want to be on city water and sewer, then they need to investigate annexation and petition the city. Like paved streets and sidewalks, it is up to the residents to provide them. Residents need to request and be prepared to pay for city services if they want them.
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Posted by Bruce Helland (+594) 10 years ago
So all this board dors is advise builders, developers, and city/county officials? What are the criteria for your opinions as a board; just statute or does other factors come into play?
Please elaborate..
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+620) 10 years ago
The purpose of planning boards, from MT statute:
76-1-102. Purpose. (1) It is the object of this chapter to encourage local units of government to improve the present health, safety, convenience, and welfare of their citizens and to plan for the future development of their communities to the end that highway systems be carefully planned; that new community centers grow only with adequate highway, utility, health, educational, and recreational facilities; that the needs of agriculture, industry, and business be recognized in future growth; that residential areas provide healthy surroundings for family life; and that the growth of the community be commensurate with and promotive of the efficient and economical use of public funds.
(2) In accomplishing this objective, it is the intent of this chapter that the planning board shall serve in an advisory capacity to presently established boards and officials.

History: En. Sec. 1, Ch. 246, L. 1957; amd. Sec. 1, Ch. 247, L. 1963; amd. Sec. 2, Ch. 273, L. 1971; R.C.M. 1947, 11-3801(part).
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Posted by montanaman (+293) 10 years ago
So does the planning board need to make sure safety is the issue with in the city to? Mayor I don't believe you have the safety of the people in mind if you did you would address the public ice skating rink in the city, not the hockey rink you think you have.....

[This message has been edited by montanaman (10/27/2010)]
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+620) 10 years ago
Before anyone unloads on you for getting too far off-topic, montanaman, I think you may have an important story to tell. Why don't you tell us what's driving this? We might learn something from it.
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Posted by Bruce Helland (+594) 10 years ago
Ice is slippery. Please be careful! Your safety has been addressed.... Thank You
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Posted by BD (+338) 10 years ago
Did that and to know avail! Ask City, then County and State no one seems to want to help unless you have a lot of money or a name that means something.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Um, we have definitely wandered off topic and into la-la-land.
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Posted by MRH (+1486) 10 years ago
Um, we have definitely wandered off topic and into la-la-land.


And, I bet an intelligent person like you suspected this might happen.
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Posted by HLW (+11) 10 years ago
I think what is driving this is freedom. We don't trust the people running the city and don't want them making decisions for us. Especcially after the response that we got to our questions ect... If we can't trust you to be honest and streight forward with us about our concerns then we certainly can't trust you to be honest and streight forward with the business you conduct. That is the point
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Posted by HLW (+11) 10 years ago
Anyone who wants to see the City County Planning Board dissolved can sign a petition by contacting Barb Reagan at 232-6975
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 10 years ago
I love it. A petition to dissolve an advisory board, that has no decision-making authority.

You can't make this stuff up. You freakin' morans are too stupid even for the Tea Party.

Why don't you knuckledraggers try a different tactic, like volunteering to be on the City County Planning Board???
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Posted by Joe Whalen (+620) 10 years ago
Especcially (sic) after the response that we got to our questions ect (sic)...


1. What questions have you asked?
2. Of whom did you ask these questions?
3. When did you ask them?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
Why don't you knuckledraggers try a different tactic, like volunteering to be on the City County Planning Board???


I disagree. There is no reason to saddle good people like Amorette with the crap that will undoubtable happen if some of these people get on the board. Locally, we have such an issue and it takes them 2 hours just to approve the minutes of the last meeting. Nobody volunteering there time for public service deserves that kind of treatment.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
So what... precisely is the source of all the butthurt regarding the City County Planning Board? Are there specific actions that have been taken by the board that people can point to and say "I disagree with that", or examples of actual questions that have been asked of the board that could be debated?

Because so far, this thread has a distinct "Eric Holder and his Kenyan Overlord is coming fer mah gunz" feel to it.

On the other hand, this is a community that felt it would be a good idea to close the junior high and time-share the high school building between the junior and senior high, so nothing would really surprise me.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (10/29/2010)]
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Posted by Dona Stebbins (+827) 10 years ago
And I thought Great Falls has a disproportionate group of wing-nuts...
Someone who lives in a town much like MC and GF said it best - you can't fix stupid.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Name one thing the City-County Planning Board has done that you disagree with. Just one. And we can discuss it.

I await your answer with bated breath!
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 10 years ago
Excellent point, Richard. I withdraw that suggestion.

Instead, I will chime in with what Amorette said, albeit not so nicely:

Why don't you knuckledraggers shuffle your way into a meeting and mouth your complaints there?
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Posted by Stone (+1592) 10 years ago
HLW,

WDYGFY.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
I am waiting for a specific complaint about a recommendation made by the City County Planning Board. So far, all I hear is the sound of silence.
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Posted by Red Fox (+27) 10 years ago
There seems to be a lot of information that I am hearing and it is hard to tell what is true and who to believe. I am going to tell you what I have heard and maybe someone can shed some light on what is really going on.

I have heard that there are taxes on the County tax statements that are assessed to people that live within the 4 and 1/2 mile radius around Miles City that are to go for City/County planning and that this tax has been in effect since it was passed by vote around 1977. However, what I have heard is that for the last so many years, the money collected has gone into the city general fund and not technically been used for City/County Planning.

My understanding is that when this 4 and 1/2 mile radius was passed back in 1977 something happened and it wasn't filed correctly or something and that now it is going to be ratified which is what has people in an uproar. The reason that people are in an uproar is because what is being said is that if this passes then everyone within that 4 and 1/2 mile limit around Miles City could be subject to additional city taxes and city ordinances.

It is the possibility of being subject to city ordinances that has me concerned if in fact that is true. I moved to the County, not to avoid paying taxes but to be able to have the livestock that I wanted to have that is not allowed by city ordinances. City ordinances limit the amount and type of animals that a property owner is allowed to have and since I wanted to have more than that I moved to the County. I, like everyone else, don't want my taxes increased but I am a lot more concerned with having to maybe get rid of my precious animals if my neighbors complain. That could happen if we fall with city ordinances.

My understanding is that Mr Leidholt did try to build a barb wire fence but since he is within the 4 and 1/2 mile limit to Miles City he was told it was a city ordinance that he couldn't have a barb wire fence so he had to build a different kind. So does that mean everyone within 4 and 1/2 miles of Miles City are subject to city ordinances but that it is only enforced if brought to attention?

Help me understand what is going on.

Also, as far as people trying to have their say, I believe that at the meeting that was held at the college around the 15th or 16th of October there were a fair amount of concerned people that showed up and had questions and concerns. How come whenever anyone voiced and opinion or had a question the only answer that was given was that only written comments were being accepted? Since there were a lot of concerned people there wouldn't it have been a good time to explain to them what was going on and let them know that the City/County Planning Board had nothing to do with it if that were true?

I'm not trying to start anything, I just want to know what is really going on and how it is going to affect those of us that live in the county.

Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this and answer as I know it is really long.
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Posted by Toni Rentschler (+1513) 10 years ago
I think that Red Fox has great questions. What is this 4.5 mile thing. I guess I must be to young to know about it. Is that 4.5 Miles each way.... Or a total of an additional 4.5 mile radius? So that will be 2.25 each way? This would both some. The animal thing.... Or will they be grandfathered in? I dont think it would be fair and even look to good on the city if you were to pass that one day, and then the next they are told to get rid of their animals, and sometimes babies or family mebers!!

**Note** I an under 50. I am actually under 30!
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Posted by Joe Smity (+110) 10 years ago
Ms. Allison is a member of the City County planning board and is well informed of it's composition and function. If you don't wish to believe what she offers for an explanation here, you should contact the chair of the board, Mr. John Kuntz and discuss your concerns with him. If that still doesn't satisfy your questions, the Mayor has been kind enough to present you with the State statutes that define the role and functions of planning boards. Therein lies the factual information that you seek.

With respect to your concerns of the tax assessment and the monies collected. Your questions there can be answered in reviewing the City's budget. If you wish to understand it better, then you should go to City Hall and ask to review a copy of the budget. If you have specific questions about the budget, ask. If you have particular concerns where the money comes from and where it allocated and how it is spent, ask.

If you have concerns about what the planning board is doing or a decision they have made or question on an agenda item, call one of the members and express your questions and concerns. By all means, attend the meetings, they are publicly noticed and open to any and all.

With respect to your comments concerning the questions people had at the public hearing. Public hearings are meant to be a chance for the public to express their concerns and technically not supposed to be a question and answer session of the elected official(s) presenting the hearing. Most elected officials bend that rule and allow questions and try to give relevant responses.

The difficulties experienced at the aforementioned public meeting were two fold. One, people insisted on voicing issues to complain about that have not relevance to the discussion at hand; they were not planning board issues to begin with and most had no bearing on whether the current City County planning board should be disbanded. Many comments were zoning related and quite a few had no bearing with regard to planning or zoning, they were just people giving air their frustrations over some perceived infringement without even presenting specific facts. Two, the County Commissioners in attendance tried at first to keep the discussion relevant to the subject at hand, but soon let the hearing head off course and eventually gave up trying to any kind of control over the discussions. When that happened, of course people's off topic comments and frustrations inflamed others frustrations and soon it became a bitch session about perceptions of local politics. Lots of misinformation, mis-perception and in general just plain wrong statements. Even after a couple of people tried to explain what a planning board does and what the discussion needed to be, others were not interested in engaging useful discussion.

Such is the state of the local political bodies in Miles City. Try to provide facts and people insist on ignoring them. Provide rumor and innuendo and people run to the hills with it as biblical truth! It is as though people want to be uninformed and to make decisions based on ignorance of the facts and how it will impact them.

A couple of thoughts:
If the current board is disbanded, is the current assessment (which is for a City/County board) going to be removed for the next tax cycle? The question was asked specifically by Mr. Kuntz and was not answered. If the assessment stays, what is going to happen to those funds?

Why is there such an effort to yet again create a duplication of an existing service, one that apparently has been serving the community since the 70's?

If the County does indeed establish a separate planning board, what is next? Separate water treatment and waste water treatment plants for those people whose property lies just outside the city limits but currently are served by the City water and waste water plants? It would seem to be inline with the efforts afoot to drive further division between neighbors (after all, those residents of Miles City must not be residents of Custer County, right?). What would that do to local taxes?

If the County does establish a separate planning board, will they in turn establish a zoning board and a separate board of appeals? Or will they not bother with any zoning efforts and allow development "willy nilly"?

If the County does establish a separate planning board, will the County commissioners follow state statute or will they ignore statute and go their own way with things? What assurances will the residents have that their infrastructure and boundaries will align with and be compatible with those services of the City when they request to be annexed to the City? Wouldn't that require yet another layer of administration and cost to arbitrate those areas of concern?

I know that this attempt to help clarify the issue likely a futile effort, but it's not the first windmill I've tilted at, probably won't be the last.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
I have no clue about the tax situation. We are certainly not paid but there are expenses for the board, like photocopying plot plans and notifying land owners. I assume these are paid for through the assessment, although, as I understand it, the county hasn't paid it for some time.

As for the 4.5 miles limit, it was enacted by the STATE legislature in 1977 because of concerns that the was no control over development near city limits and that, once a subdivision was developed, the property owners might request annexation and the subdivision would not be in any way compatible with the existing city codes. The City County Planning Board existed before that, as far back as the late 1950's, if what I read in the newspapers of that era are correct, but it was not defined in the same manner.

When the state legislature passed the so-called doughnut law, giving the power to expand planning, the board was altered and new legislation passed locally to reflect that change. The 4.5 miles is measured from the city limits, and therefore is as erratic as the city limits themselves. One caveat, a property must be 100% IN to qualify. Unlike like flood plains (another topic over which the planning board has no jurisdiction or influence) a property cannot be partially in and partially out. If a portion is out, the whole parcel is out.

Apparently, a final map or some other detail was not filed properly in 1977. The board has been operating for the past 33 years without this causing any problem and it was rectified when the map was filed.

Mr. Leidholt's fence was never presented to the Planning Board. Ever. Never mentioned. Never discussed. How he got the idea he can't built a barbed wire fence in the county is beyond me, as, to the best of my knowledge, he can. He can't build one in the city limits but that is NOT a planning board recommendation. Again, that issue, whatever it is, NEVER came before the planning board in any way, shape or form.

As for city ordinance, they apply WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS. The planning board has NOTHING to do with city ordinances or their enforcement. The 4.5 mile limit, which has been in place for more than three decades, has NOTHING to with ordinances. It has to do with developing subdivisions in some sort of planned manner so we don't end up with weird streets and no utility access or whatever was grandfathered in before planning was considered.

I did not attend the public meeting but I gather most of what was discussed had nothing to do with the planning board. The County Commissioners in attendance could have answered many of the questions, such as the way members of the board are selected and appointed, how the board is funded, but chose not to do so.

Again, I don't know about the funding issue but I do know that barbed fences do NOT come under our jurisdiction. City ordinances do NOT come under our jurisdiction. We approve the written plats for new subdivisions to make sure they meet legal requirements such as street width and legal language.

So, except for the funding thing, which is a pretty itty bitty amount, what other complaints are there that actually APPLY TO THE PURVUE of the City County Planning Board?

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (10/30/2010)]
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Posted by Red Fox (+27) 10 years ago
I didn't say that I didn't believe what Ms Allison is saying. I was just saying what I had heard and what my concerns were. I did read the information provided by the Mayor but it doesn't address anything about the 4 and 1/2 mile radius around Miles City, it only addresses what a planning board is. So my question is, is how is the planning board involved with four and 1/2 mile radius? What is going on with the 4 and 1/2 mile radius thing? Has there been a change recently? Is there going to be a change coming up? Since the City County Planning Board isn't involved in ratifying anything but is more of a planning forum then dissolving the city county planning board would have no effect on the 4 and 1/2 mile radius thing, right? So why would anyone in the county or city want the board dissolved? So is the City County Planning Board thing different than the 4 mile radius thing?
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Posted by Bruce Helland (+594) 10 years ago
Unfortunately people seem to have confused both issues as one. Perhaps the fear is that a recommendation from the planning board will be interpated as statue. Again I think its time to revisit city-county consolidation so we dont have these problems with service duplication.
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Posted by Joe Smity (+110) 10 years ago
Red Fox,

Please, reread what Ms. Allison has posted in this thread. Read it carefully. She has addressed practically all of your questions either directly or indirectly. She is well informed and knowledgeable and is a diligent member of that board. She takes her role on that board seriously and performs her duty there with informed and diligent effort.

What you hear from her and from the Mayor constitute factual information concerning the duty and performance of that board. People have been trying hard to make is seem that the City County planning board is a new creation and that it is some big power grabbing dictatorial function of City government. It is not new. It is not a part of City government. It is an advisory board comprised of residents of Miles City and residents of Custer County outside of the city limits of Miles City. I repeat, it is an advisory board ONLY.

It is supported by the City professional planning staff in that they do the actual hard research of statute and review of plats. The planning staff does the research, presents the facts, offers suggestions and recommendations to the board and then the board discusses and digests this information to reach a decision of recommendation. That recommendation is then presented to the City Council or the County Commission for a decision of action.

I can not speak with authority on where the tax assessment monies are allocated. I suspect that it goes towards the overall funding of the planning department, since that department contributes the actual hard research of applicable statute and review of the engineered plats. That work takes time and presents a real cost, and since a large portion of the work that is done is in the "doughnut" area (outside the City limits and in the County), that money would be the contribution the County makes for these professional services. The Mayor can speak with authority to this subject, this is only my surmise.

As far as recent changes, there has been none. The City County planning board has a jurisdictional "authority" that includes the area within the city limits and out to 4 1/2 miles beyond the city limits. That area was defined by State statute, not by local authority and defined a LONG time ago. What that means is that the City County planning board works to see that development in the city proper and out to 4 1/2 miles outside of the city limits is done in compliance with State statute.

What is going on with the 4 1/2 mile radius, the "doughnut"? Nothing. There is no change with that jurisdictional area. It is the same as it was last week, last year, last decade, etc.

What is going on is that the County Commission believes that the City County planning board was improperly formed, contrary to the researched opinion of the County Attorney. In that belief, the County Commission has decided to go through this dog and pony show of seeking public comment on whether to continue with the existing structure that has been in place since the 1970's or tear it up and form a separate board to deal with this particular area.

You ask two very pertinent and insightful questions:
"Since the City County Planning Board isn't involved in ratifying anything but is more of a planning forum then dissolving the city county planning board would have no effect on the 4 and 1/2 mile radius thing, right?"

Read my previous comment on the County Commission either following statute or deciding to "go their own way".

"So why would anyone in the county or city want the board dissolved?"

And there Red Fox is the $64 question. That is the the question that everyone should be asking and demanding an answer for.

Dissolving the existing board is not going to reduce your tax burden. The question was asked and not answered. In order to comply with State statute, there will likely be INCREASED cost, so I'll leave you to reach your own conclusion as to the impact of that upon your taxes.

(segway to a different subject)
Ms. Allison raised another point (indirectly) that I want to point out. Flood plain administration and management is NOT part of the function of a planning board. They are very different and distinct functions. I will assume that you are aware that the County has adopted a set of flood plain resolutions, separate from and not working with the City's effort in addressing this concern. I strongly advise you to read this document. You should then read the document that Rosebud county has on record. Then the same document that exists for Yellowstone county. Read them all, carefully. It should cause outrage, but I'll leave it to you to discover why.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
We on the City County Planning Board have been wondering for some time why the County Commissioners want the board dissolved and have never received an explanation either. The 4.5 miles radius for planning is state statue dating back to 1977 and nothing has changed about that since 1977. Nothing has changed. Not representation, which is 6 county and 5 city, not duties, nothing.

We have no clue why this hysterical reaction to a very dull board that has been diligently doing its very dull work for more than 30 years without comment or question.

We would also like to know why this nonsense has come up? Why has this hysteria been directed at an advisory board that makes sure street widths meet code? If anyone has an answer as to why this mad attack on the City County Planning Board, I, for one, would LOVE to hear it.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (10/30/2010)]
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Posted by montanaman (+293) 10 years ago
It's kind of like a tea party people are tired of being told we are going to this or we are going to do that type of thing, and I work for the government and there's nothing you can do about it attitude that is taken here.
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Posted by David Schott (+16723) 10 years ago
Did somebody say something? I didn't think so. Persons who are unwilling to sign their true name to their opinion clearly do not believe in what they have to say. Those of us debating the anonymous are just wasting our time.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
So, you don't want legal language on plat maps to be correct? You don't want survey lines to be correct? You don't want right-of-ways to be correct? You don't want adequate street width and utility access? After 33 years of this heavy-handed rule (that 95% of the people didn't know about until last month) you want no supervision over development? That isn't "tea party" That's just plain stupid.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
That isn't "tea party" That's just plain stupid.

A distinction without a difference...
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
I always assumed that on days 8 through 14, God provided sewer, water, and roads. Who knew that public services required organization?
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Posted by Mayor (+133) 10 years ago
Thank you, Red & Toni, for finally submitting some earnest questions that merit response. Thank you also to Joe & Amorette for providing well-informed responses.

Questions relating to funding have been left to me so I'll do what I can to clear up any lingering confusion.

1. After the City/County Planning Board was created, succeeding Custer County Commissions authorized a City/County Planning Levy each fiscal year to fund the activities of the board.

2. The expressed purpose of this levy was to fund the City/County Planning Board.

3. The taxing jurisdiction for this levy included the city limits and the 4.5 mile planning jurisdiction but excluded the area outside the jurisdiction.

4. The number of mills assessed were determined by the annual budget submitted by the City/County Planning Board to the Custer County Commission.

5. The revenue generated by the levy typically ranged between $19K and $23K, or about $2/capita.

6. Any subdivision review or planning activities in Custer County beyond the 4.5 mile planning jurisdiction were billed to Custer County at $48/hr. by the City/County Planner.

Contrary to montanaman's assertion, while the current Custer County Commission did assess the levy within the taxing jurisdiction during the last fiscal year and raised a little over $23K, it has not yet transferred that revenue to the City/County Planning Board to fund last year's operations, despite assurances by Commission Chairman Matthews that it would.

Rather, the Commission attempted to divert revenues raised expressly for the City/County Planning Board (and represented as such to taxpayers) to fund the newly-created County Planning Board and floodplain administration activities beyond the jurisdictional area.

Further, in constructing the county budget for this fiscal year, the Commission unilaterally decided for the first time since the planning board was established not to raise funds for City/County Planning Board operations.

This is how things currently stand. Questions?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
$2/capita

Give me 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, or give me death

But I am rather shocked that the tea party types on this thread seem to be fully supportive of what appears to be (although, IANAL) the county's rather lawless behavior. Shocked.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (11/1/2010)]
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
That's about a third of a pack.

Dirt farmers.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 10 years ago
But I am rather shocked that the tea party types on this thread seem to be fully supportive of what appears to be (although, IANAL) the county's rather lawless behavior. Shocked.



I think the proper nomenclature is "tea baggers."
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Posted by Judd (+48) 10 years ago
Hmmm seems to me there is alot of passing the buck here, especially when valid concerns are brought up. All the answers amount to that is not city/county board jurisdicition. Or We dont know what you are asking etc. I havent seen one logical answer from anyone yet. This leads me to believe this thread is useless in nature and Miles City officials have a big problem with accountability. Everything is someone elses problem. People in the county should pay city taxes but cannot have city services other than eductation. No water or sewer services. How about city police is it in there jursidiction in the 4.5 mile radius? Pardon my errors.

[This message has been edited by Judd (11/2/2010)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
Repeatedly in this thread reference has been made to a 4.5 mile radius. What is the center of that radius? Is it the post office or the courthouse or Mac Frontierland?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
Hmmm seems to me there is alot of passing the buck here


It's TWO bucks.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Actually, I did explain the 4.5 miles radius several postings back. It is based on the city limits so, just like the city limits, it is irregular. Drawing the line is darn tricky but with the modern technology available to us today, it can and has been done.

And Judd, I have answered every single intelligent question in regard to the City County Planning Board. It is an advisory board consisting of five members appointed by the county, five by the city and one by the water board. It is volunteer and has NO statutory authority. It recommends to the body that does have authority whether the plat for a new subdivision meets state code in regard to street width, effect on services, etc.

That's it. Nothing shady or scary or conspiracy-worthy. It is DULL DULL DULL and while I appreciate the efforts of some folks to tell lies and half truths trying to make it exciting, it isn't. We've been chugging along for 33 years without a care in the world because no one was making up weird rumors about us.

So, ask me your question and I will give you a straight, honest, accurate answer. Go ahead. What about advising governments on whether platted subdivisions meet legal standards do you have problems with?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9071) 10 years ago
What "buck" is being passed here? Amoretti and Joe have written long and detailed posts outlining the exact nature of the City/County Planning Boards purposes and responsibilities. What, specifically, are the questions you want answered? I'll bet if you, (and this is the key) ask those questions upon this board (assuming that they haven't already been asked and answered) you'll get answers to them.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
If I remember correctly the Macs Froniterland is pretty close to the city limit. If the 4.5 mile buffer is from the city limit that would put Muggli Lane at the edge of the city buffer. That seems kind of a stretch.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
The 4.5 miles limit was chosen by the STATE legislature in 1977. How they came up with that distance, I do not know. I was a freshman in college in 1977 and had better things to do then worry about 4.5 jurisdictional boundaries. And since Southgate is in the city limits, then the 4.5 sticks out from the bulge that is Southgate.

Our City Limits look as if they were drawn by a blind man. A drunk blind man.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
Hmm... Well that means that the old Kirtcher Creek coal mine is probably in your 4.5 mile planning buffer. Good to know.
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Posted by Judd (+48) 10 years ago
[This message has been edited by Judd (11/3/2010)]
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Posted by Cactus Plains (+92) 10 years ago
Hey! What the heck is going on??? I put a very informative post on this line of bs yesterday morning and 5 minutes ... maybe less and it disappeared ... kind of like magic?

Today I noticed the other post was gone, also???? hmmmmmmmm!

When someone covers up the truth with darkness, they expose or shine the light on more darkness, which then appears as truth! In other much more was exposed when that information was stolen??? as it was public information, was it not, you should probably put that post back on. The little red devil in the rain might be in the brain, when you lower your vibrational frequencies with evil the little red devil goes to work??? Maybe, maybe not?

Cactus Plains when it rains in Spain
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
And the insanity begins. . .

No, it continues. . .

And it still has NOTHING to do with the City/County Planning Board.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
User error.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Vicki Hamilton wants to dissolve the City/County Planning Board. Keith Holmland is fine with it. I wonder if we will be having any more meetings?
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Posted by Cactus Plains (+92) 10 years ago
Excellent!!! Mrs Hamilton. Webmaster please put the post you took off by Cactus Plains back on ... pretty please ... or tell me what I did wrong.

Taking that post off was really enlightening as to what is ????

I was the first to raise the CHEMTRAIL ISSUE because it is killing the rangeland ecosystems. Without the rangeland ecosystems of the world we are DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The arsholes of the world are killing everything!!! That is why I am on here, I'm MADD as HELL!!!

Only problem is I have been Mad for 10 years because we have corrupted everything, starting with the LOCAL Poopoliticians, sheet for brains.

"The little Red Devil in the Rain", coined by Cactus Plains...

Gunnar how is it that you got to read the post that was immediately taken down???

I don't need to see your stupid remarks, they on shine the light on your stupidisitiosis mentality disease. It's not a medical term but it is caused by brucella germ...wow

Who bought Custer County and you? Was it SATAN God of Red Hot Deserts and WAR??? Maybe the Environmental Wackos with brains of "NOTHINGNESS".

Ranchers could kick ass (on the keyboard)on these wackos, but they seem to be hiding in the BUSHES??? You guys got the most to lose. huh! The little red devil is killing the rangeland plants and you don't care????????? It is in you also. The rangelands are ecologically near dead, because Fritzy and his kind are all frauds also, wackos frauds all the same unnatural DNA created in ancient Egypt???

Cactus Plains
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
Man, the Cactus does the high octane stuff. I think it is time to shut this discussion down because it is OVER!
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Posted by tjh (+136) 10 years ago
From deep deep deep I mean WAY out in left feild....Cactus plains!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
The rangelands are ecologically near dead, because Fritzy and his kind are all frauds also, wackos frauds all the same unnatural DNA created in ancient Egypt???


Mr. Bloom: Now you have gotten personal. I don't appreciate personal attacks of this sort on my friends. The person you named here has forgotten more about livestock management and range resources than you will ever know. End of discussion.

You have a choice: It is time to put up or shut up. Produce the evidence that you keep referring to or quit posting blatant lies.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 10 years ago
What has got Cactus Plains all ticked off at me? Earlier in the thread when I made a reference to "knuckle draggers", I certainly was NOT referring to a Man of Science such as Mr. Plains.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 10 years ago
unnatural DNA created in ancient Egypt


Are we talking mummies here?
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1666) 10 years ago
For all of Amoretti's efforts, this deserves to reach 100.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 10 years ago
I never thought a thread with the title "City County Planning Board" would merit 100 posts.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
Well, if Cactus Plains produces the documents request of him, it could go to 200.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1666) 10 years ago
I don't know that "merit" would be the right word.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 10 years ago
What has got Cactus Plains all ticked off at me? Earlier in the thread when I made a reference to "knuckle draggers", I certainly was NOT referring to a Man of Science such as Mr. Plains.



Funny stuff. Good work, Mr. Emillson.
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Posted by Cactus Plains (+92) 10 years ago
Big Cow Richard ... What documents requested??? Bugs bunny or Mickey mouse??? Does not the country look as if it has been sprayed with Roundup (organophosphate)??? Or do you have eyes that see but see not?
I know you can not comprehend as you are always out in left field???

I seriously doubt that anyone is as learned in range science as Cactus Plains, but the fact is it matters not. Neither you nor Fritzy Coversup seems to care that they have been spraying us with patented IRPA???

You have stupidisitiosis so bad maybe the flu shot would help, it could not get any worse. Tell us what is in the rain that is killing everything including ... do you even know why you don't get the flu shot? Tell us what is in the vaccines, I don't think you have a clue?

Amorette ... I write this insanity for you and Wendy, the next day I read your comments, and that gives me many laughs through the day, so thanks, tell us what causes skin cancer? you are keeping me healthy through killing times HA!

Gunnar lets me and you write and environmental assessment on the CHEMTRAILS OVER MILES CITY, I am mentally tuned into writing environmental assessments and maybe 2nd best in the World. You did not answer the question why??? Oh I already know don't I. Did you say the Madison was only 5000 ' at Miles City. I think it is much deep am I wrong?

Purpose and Need: ___________________ by the UN?


All in fun, we are living in a real life movie created by the ancient King Solomon, he was a pharaoh not unlike .... the CFR's President of the United States Corporation.

I hate 3 people, they all work for FWP or did, so I like you all, but Richard you gotta get your I Q out of Earl's Outhouse.

My post did not appear so I'm out of here!!!!!!!!

The little red devil in the rains is eating all the nutrient value out of the range plains. Look at Greasy Woods Flats at Ft Mad Cow, it has been visibly dying for 10 years, about gone now?

Cactus Plains
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
I am mentally tuned into writing environmental assessments and maybe 2nd best in the World


Procreateing hilarious.
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Posted by Russell Bonine (+242) 10 years ago
they have been spraying us with patented IRPA???



Irrational Reason Prevents Articulation



I think this is self inflicted!
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3708) 10 years ago
Does not the country look as if it has been sprayed with Roundup (organophosphate)??? Or do you have eyes that see but see not?


I know it's pointless to argue with you and you should only be mocked, but it's just too darn easy.

No it doesn't look like it's been sprayed with Roundup. For example:



This picture was taken a week ago. That's right, late October in Eastern Montana and there is green grass all over the place. That is nearly unprecedented in my lifetime. If they are spraying Roundup Chemtrails on us it's not working very well at all.
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Posted by poisonspaghetti (+289) 10 years ago
Second best in the world, cactus? Why so modest?
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Posted by Mandyrosy (+185) 10 years ago
The deadline for public comment to the county commissioners on whether to dissolve or amend the board's jurisdiction is coming up. Write your letters, folks!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
And remember what the City /County Planning board actually DOES as opposed to the wild rumors and speculation that have been running amuck. We evaluate the plans of subdivisions to make sure they meet legal requirements. We have nothing to do with city ordinances, annexation, fences or any of a myriad of other issues that are unrelated to the actual function of the board.

Please, write a letter based on fact, not fiction, and based on real world issues, not made-up madness.
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Posted by Bob L. (+5100) 10 years ago
Levi:

Nice cap on the kid in the picture! That's a good look.
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Posted by Lorin Dixson (+592) 10 years ago
Amorette, The ones that understand what you are saying probably won't write the letters. The ones with their fingers in their ears will write letters.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+9995) 10 years ago
I don't know why Cactus keeps saying his/her posts are disappearing. Just click the name "Cactus Plains" and it shows the last 20 made, with links to each.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11610) 10 years ago
The Cactus does not live on the same plain as the rest of us. In his world, things happen or do not happen based on his hallucinations. It's an interesting world but I prefer this one.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 10 years ago
Gee, haven't heard anything from him since the tractor hit a power line. Coincidence?
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+16971) 10 years ago
I suspect Sagebrush is conducting some high altitude atmospheric sampling of the big California chemtrail.
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Posted by Cactus Plains (+92) 10 years ago
Levi I said the country looks like it has been sprayed with Roundup? I did not say it had been sprayed with roundup. The western wheatgrass should be blue/green on most all range sites. Is it? The greasewood should be green, is it? Many other perennial plants should be green are they?

The country should be green, I got 22" plus, but the country looks like it is bleached out, kind of like rain on cut hay after a day or so. What bleaches the hay?

You are welcome to argue with me anytime.

Don't expect to win tho? If you are a rancher then you have the most to lose. Brucellosis is a hoax on the cattleman and I can prove it?
Stupidisitiosis is a weaponized german disease cause by brucella dna, fluoridated water and the media/education brainwashing.

I don't post about the range being turned to desert by patented desertification technology for the fun of it! Dynodrought.

Nothing could be worse than what they have already done.

The city slickers have nothing to lose if Custer County turns to desert. I actually believe Custer County or who ever owns Custer County has been selling the atmospheric water for over 20 years in Custer County. It is documented probably in Helena?

They don't have the brains to know that the more agricultural families the more money to be spent in Custer County.


You have to be stupid not to realise that the insurance companies are paying so as not to have hail storms in Miles City?

They control the weather of the world and your mind?

The diferrence between orgnophosphate and phosphodiesterase is the difference between what is in the rain and roundup?

jump buck n kick
Cactus Plains

In 1963 the King of Assyria killed the King of Israel?
Who were these Kings.

Amorette you intell is still below water level in Earl's Outhouse!
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3708) 10 years ago
Brucellosis is a hoax on the cattleman and I can prove it?


Why don't you go ahead and put your proof right here. Or was that a question?

The city slickers have nothing to lose if Custer County turns to desert. I actually believe Custer County or who ever owns Custer County has been selling the atmospheric water for over 20 years in Custer County. It is documented probably in Helena?


Pretty much every business in Miles City depends on agriculture. Why don't you go to Helena and get that documentation if it's probably there? Or were you asking about that too?
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6173) 10 years ago
I think Cactus Plains is just a monkey randomly hitting keys on the keyboard.
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Posted by MilesCity.com Webmaster (+9995) 10 years ago
Wendy hit the nail on the head. In any case I'm done dealing with "Cactus Plains". Whoever it was won't be posting here anymore for their own good.
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Posted by Mandyrosy (+185) 10 years ago
On Tuesdays' agenda


From the Custer County Clerk and Recorder's office
The Custer County Commissioners will meet during their regular hours on Tuesday and Thursday next week.
The commissioners' regular meetings take place in the commissioners' courthouse office from 8:30 a.m. to 1 p.m. Each session begins with administrative duties, which are the approval of minutes from previous meetings, monthly reports, board/committee reports and approval and signing of claims.
On Tuesday, from 9-9:30 a.m., the board plans to meet with Miles City Area Economic Development Council Director Mike Coryell to discuss a water line extension on Valley Drive East. From 10-11 a.m., they have their monthly meeting with Custer County Public Health/Family Planning Director Wendy Richards. At 11 a.m., the commissioners will participate in the federal election canvas.

At 12 a.m., the board's agenda advertises a resolution of intent to "dissolve the Miles City-Custer County Planning Board; establish the jurisdictional area of the Custer County Planning Board to include all of Custer County, excluding the incorporated limits of the city of Miles City and the town of Ismay; proceed to adopt a growth policy and subdivision regulations for all of Custer County, excluding the incorporated limits of the city of Miles City and the town of Ismay; recognize the existing zoning by Miles City for a two-mile jurisdictional area outside the city limits of Miles City until Custer County has adopted a growth policy and subdivision regulations for that jurisdictional area; appoint two members to the City Planning Board from the two-mile zoned area outside the incorporated limits of the city of Miles City; and increase the size of the County Planning Board to include member(s) from the 4.5-mile area outside of the incorporated limits of Miles City for the purpose of subdivision administration."


The commissioners will not hold regular hours on Wednesday, as Commissioner Gary Matthews has been excused and there will be no quorum.
On Thursday, the commissioners will recess their public hours from 9:30 to 11 a.m. in order to attend Leadership Miles City's Government Day at Miles Community College, room 106.
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supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
Cactus said:

The western wheatgrass should be blue/green on most all range sites.


On sites that have a Kishonia or Cambria soil series or soils of similar age, topographical position in the landscape, and texture, Pascopyrum smithii is almost always a blue-green. In other soils series that have a higher sand and/or silt content this species has great variation in color; generally a dark green. (I can give you the Munsell color number if you would like.)

There is a relationship between the rhizome-speading nature of this species and the color. Where PASM has spread mostly by rhizomes it tends to be more of a blue-green. When it exhibits more of a bunchgrass character, it tends to be a lighter green.

Grazing management (or lack thereof) has a lot to do with whether PASM spreads by rhizomes or not. So if you are overgrazing and it can't spread by rhizome, your PASM probably has changed color somewhat.

This species also readily hybridizes with other wheatgrass species so that the phenotypical expression (i.e. color) varies considerably. It has nothing to do with "patented decertification technology".

The only thing patented here is the absurdity of the claim.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (11/15/2010)]
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supporter
Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+14884) 10 years ago
I think Cactus Plains is just a monkey randomly hitting keys on the keyboard.


Actually, Cactus Plains a rancher who raises Gelbvieh livestock around Miles City. I suspect in the winter he is bored and drinks a little.


In any case I'm done dealing with "Cactus Plains". Whoever it was won't be posting here anymore for their own good.


Another educational opportunity down the drain.
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