[This message has been edited by gypsykim (6/30/2010)]

I think raising the taxes as a means of social control is ... I can't think of a strong enough word to express my dislike.

I can understand encouraging people to quit, not FORCING them to quit.
You can only ask them to change, you can't make them do it.

Good luck with that. If you raise the taxes on tobacco so high it becomes unreasonable (IE NewYorks new $10 a pack), you will see revolting. A ton of my friends smoke, and I know everyone of them would not be happy at this, considering it is too much as is. Like Smiley said, you can offer to help people quit, but you cannot force them to quit.

It is proven that 7% of smoker's quit for every dollar that the cigarette tax is increased and 10% of potential smokers never start. The American Cancer Society and the American Cancer Society Cancer Action Network will continue to do whatever it takes. Smoking is the number one preventable cause of cancer in the world.

I marvel that anyone in this day and age is stupid enough to start. Fine, someone back in the day, when Camel ads touted how healthy smoking unfiltered Camels were but now? Just how many brain cells do you have to be missing to take up a hobby that you know will waste money by literally burning it up and cause horrible health problems?

Sorry but any teenager who takes it up proves but an idiot they are.

I am a smoker, I took it up as a teenager, and it was the dumbest decision of my life. I'm addicted now, and it's the hardest thing to quit (aside from heroin?).
1.Raising the prices is not going to make me quit, it's going to piss me off.

2. Telling me I'm going to get cancer and DIE is not going to make me quit. I'm not 5, I know the consequences, and I know the damage I cause to my body.

3. Show me the proof that tobacco causes preventable death? You are basically ASSUMING that people who smoke could prevent their death if they didn't smoke.NEWS FLASH everyone dies, and those who smoke choose sooner RATHER than later. How do you know at the time of death if they were elsewhere not dying, that they wouldn't get hit by a bus? (not my belief, but it is a belief out there that we are "scheduled to die.")

4. I think there needs to be a stricter policy on teens smoking. That's where it starts. I was a teenager when I started, and I always swore I'd quit before I turned 18. Never Happened. Now I'm shooting to quit by 20.


People who are critical of others habits are annoying and immature. I will quit on my own free will. I personally don't need people like you spouting off about how I will die. I KNOW THAT, but I also know I could die if I jumped off a cliff. It's a lot easier to refrain from cliff jumping then smoking. Just think about it.

Shannon.

If you die from smoking related causes, you are guaranteed a slow, expensive death. Lung cancer is NOT a pleasant way to go, nor is it quick and painless. Fortunately, you are two generations younger than me so I won't have to pay for your healthcare but your children will.

You are also increasing the chance of your children to suffer from assorted respiratory diseases. Just sticking your hand out the car window will not make a difference. You are damaging your child every day.

Is it easy to quit? Depends on the person. Should you quit NOW? This minute? Yes. Giving yourself a deadline in the future means you plan to keep smoking.

Call the Quit Line. Today. Or be honest and admit you are too selfish to stop.

I agree with Amorette. Call the Quit Line if you really want to quit. It has a great success rate in Montana.

I am only critical of your habit because I have asthma, so your habit affects my health. It doesn't take but a few seconds of me in cigarette smoke to start experiencing problems in my lungs. I have spent more than one day in the emergency room due to cigarette smoke and I don't smoke--never have, never will.

I don't think most people who smoke are consciuosly choosing to die sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, statistics show that many smokers do not have insurance and end up costing the taxpayers A LOT of money to help them die their slow, painful and ugly death. If people are choosing that, I don't know why you would willingly put yourself or your family through that.

It is a fact from the Centers of Disease Control (CDC) and the National Institutes of Health (NIH) that, in fact, smoking is the number one preventable cause of cancer. It isn't rocket science. Cigarettes contain more than 2,000 known carcinogens that cause cancer.

Call the Quit Line. We aren't forcing you to quit with increased taxes. We are merely encouraging you to spend your money elsewhere. I don't believe I ever suggested that we were forcing people to quit smoking. The only way to do that would be to cut off your hands and seal your mouth shut--not very effective. I do, however, believe that by increasing the taxes on cigarettes, we are encouraging you to examine your behavior and make better choices. Just think of all the money you could save!

While I personally think smoking is stupid.. I wonder how people will feel WHEN there is a fatty food tax. Sure, we know processed food and mcdonalds are bad for us. Much like smokers, we dont care.. we just keep eating despite the health tolls and costs. Same difference?

Sort of the same, but not completely. Someone smoking in my presence can impact me immediately and even cause lung cancer in me, the non-smoker. My eating at McDonald's doesn't have any immediate health impact on any other person.

If there was any sanity, the federal government would end subsidies for corn farmers before instituting a tax on fatty foods.

http://friends.macjournal...eader$1107

Butz implored America's farmers to plant their fields "fence row to fence row" and set about dismantling 40 years of farm policy designed to prevent overproduction. He shuttered the ever-normal granary, dropped the target price for grain and inaugurated a new subsidy system, which eventually replaced nonrecourse loans with direct payments to farmers. The distinction may sound technical, but in effect it was revolutionary. For instead of lending farmers money so they could keep their grain off the market, the government offered to simply cut them a check, freeing them to dump their harvests on the market no matter what the price.

The new system achieved exactly what it was intended to: the price of food hasn't been a political problem for the government since the Nixon era. Commodity prices have steadily declined, and in the perverse logic of agricultural economics, production has increased, as farmers struggle to stay solvent. As you can imagine, the shift from supporting agricultural prices to subsidizing much lower prices has been a boon to agribusiness companies because it slashes the cost of their raw materials. That's why Big Food, working with the farm-state Congressional delegations it lavishly supports, consistently lobbies to maintain a farm policy geared to high production and cheap grain.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (6/30/2010)]

I, for one, am a huge fan of sin taxes. Smokes, alcohol, processed foods...bring it on! Fossil fuel taxes.....make 'em higher!

If we tax things that ruin our health, make us fat, or hurts the environment...why not? I believe we should make all such taxes higher....with the corresponding offset in no net tax increases gained through lowering the current income tax rates. Seems kind of stupid to make people pay taxes for working, yet people complain about the sin taxes.

Interesting timing for this discussion, as I heard on the radio today that the "sin" tax for tanning beds is taking effect tomorrow. If this trend continues, people will have to start making choices as to which vice to indulge. Consumers only have so much disposable income, and that's the point.

Fine Amorette. You are probably the wisest person on this website (that's just my opinion from your posts). I'll give it a try. You say now, I'll try now. I've already smoked today, but I'll start tomorrow fresh clean slate. I KNOW I can quit, and you do have a point. It does affect others around me.

If I get crap for changing my mind though, I'm going to be angry. Even Socrates would change his mind if he discovered a "different" truth.

And the Quit-line is a NO GO. I've called them twice before, and they constantly call me to check up. I HATE THAT. I don't smoke a heck of a lot, so I'll try cold turkey first.

And gypsykim, I doubt my lungs will ever be pink with the current state of environment.

Today. Or be honest and admit you are too selfish to stop.

I think that's a bit harsh, Amorette. Unfortunately it is harder for women to stop smoking because the chemicals hang out in fatty tissue, of which we have more than men. I don't think it's always a matter of selfishness. Withdrawal symptoms can be really nasty. A friend of mine who used to smoke attempted to quit many times before she succeeded. When she quit she would wake up with red welts up and down her forearms from scratching herself during the night. But she did it eventually. There are lots of aids to try now so keep trying, Smiley. You can do it!!!

Amorette may have sounded harsh, but it's all truth. The way people deliver it varies, but it hit me. I can agree that it is very selfish to smoke.

I don't even come close to smoking a pack a day, but let me break it down if I did.

$5 bucks for a pack ( I smoke cheapies.)
30 days

$150 dollars. That's my cell phone bill, that's like 10 cases of slightly off-brand diapers, that's 6 new outfits at Wal-Mart, that's at least 5 children in a foreign country I could sponsor, that's a bill that could be paid, that's 2 1/2 roundtrips to billings (just gas), the list could go on.

$1800 dollars a year, if I put that away in a college fund for my daughter, she would have almost 29,000 dollars when she turned 18. .

People who are critical of others habits are annoying and immature

That's rich coming from you Smiley.

People are going to keep smoking no matter what the price is or the danger they present. Personally I think cigs are taxed high enough. 5 something for a pack! That's close to an hour of work if you are making minimum wage. Taxing tobacco just puts even more strain on the low income individual anyway.

Smiley, it is your choice/right to smoke. However; my Mom died of Lung Cancer at the age of 49..... The heartache it caused for us (her children) was bad enough. But let me tell you how devastating it was for her grandkids... totally brutal.. That is something that I hope your daughter never has to go through at a young age, like my children did. Please call the quit line.

3 packs a day for 26 years and I quit 7 years ago! Yeah!

It was really hard, my wife quit 3 months after I did. Also really hard. Do I miss it? Sometimes...you kind of forget that most of the time the smoking had really gotten gross anyway. You remember that perfect scene, sitting outside with friends at sunset, enjoying a perfect smoke and a coke (I quit drinking 17 years ago.) Also hard. lol.

What don't I miss?

-buying the crap!
-hanging out in plastic walled rooms in airports looking like a doofus.
-stinking!
-being unable to lecture my kids on choices....hypocrite!
-doctors looking at you with that "Well, what do you expect look" no matter what brought you into the clinic.
-coughing....coughing...coughing.


Of course, I have to diet now. Just lost 30 pounds, 15 to go. But, what a feeling of accomplishment we can have and self-satisfaction, just by stopping smoking. Every minute that goes by....we did it. You can do it, you really can...if you really want to.

FH

[This message has been edited by Frank Hardy (6/30/2010)]

Frank -
Thank you for a real life story. It's inspiring. Hopefully I can lose the weight I KNOW I'll gain by using my wiifit.

Nathan-
STHU. You are a bonehead poopface. Yeah, I said it! What now?

Jody-
My grandmother died of lung cancer at age 74. It was the first death I had to deal with, and it was a painful way for her to go out. I watched it. She was miserable.

as a smoker, i don't care what other people think of my choice. i don't smoke nearly as much as i used to, or what others do (currently maybe 5 cigarettes a day, and not smoked down to the filter, perhaps half.) i also don't smoke indoors, or in my car. i make a point when having a smoke out in the open air, to do so away from people and in turn throw the extinguished butt away. i know this will kill me; but so will many other things. perhaps i am a selfish individual, but i will never pressure anyone to start. as a matter of fact, i tell all young people who are non-smokers that this is by far, the dumbest thing i started.

if you are a non-smoker please don't ever start! even a bummed one here and there can lead to a constant pack on hand.

Well Smiley aka Shannon "I have been arrested 3 times, but I've never been to a jail cell" Wozny. (On a side note isn't Facebook great?) that's not the first time I've been called a name by a pizza delivery boy..or girl in your case. I think I'll live.

How about this to deter smoking? Lets make it a Schedule 1 drug. Then arrest and send people to jail for using or possessing it. That will work.

Haha. That's so funny. http://www.facebook.com/p...1624930800

That's my facebook. Anyone is more than welcome to check it out. OMG I've been arrested. Does that mean I am a despicable human that is to be discredited? perhaps. Does that even mean I've committed a crime?

Nathan, don't you have some weed to go smoke? I seriously suggest you lay off. Your not capable of having an open dialogue, you just want a heated argument. You must be inexperienced.

I don't live in Montana, but I think this looks like a great initiative!

Here in Wisconsin, our smoke-free workplace law goes into effect July 5 and people all over the state are excited to be free of secondhand smoke when indoors. We recently raised our tobacco tax, which is a proven deterrent to young people so they don't start smoking, and is a factor in motivating some adults to quit. Health care costs and lost productivity decrease when efforts like these are enacted.

I'm a former smoker and I know how addictive cigarettes can be and how difficult it is to quit. I commend those who have quit and encourage those who are struggling to keep trying to quit, to find the motivation and method that work for you.

This is a public health issue. Let's keep that perspective with this dialog.

Thanks!

I really wish there was more being done about young smokers. I know we have MIP laws, but I still see kids smoking all the time. We can't rely on the government to stop kids from smoking, but we can hold parents accountable. Things learned in a child's environment(school, tv, friends) need to be discussed in the home.

The second priority is getting parents to quit smoking. How can you say "Hey you can't smoke!" with a cigarette in your hand? It is not going to be very effective. It will be confusing for a child, and annoying to a teenager.

Thanks so much GypsyKim & Amorette!! This video makes a very powerful statement. I just lost my oldest brother to lip, mouth and throat cancer - he was only 54. He had smoked for almost 40 years. What a terrible thing to let invade your body. I say tax the hell out of it!! I also agree with other "sin taxes" food tax for sure. I've always been overweight, my drug of choice. I am trying to eat better and by doing so, bettering my life. Better choices. There is NO BETTER CHOICES to smoking - other than quitting! Do it now. Don't end up living (if you can call it that)like my brother Kent did - almost 3 months in the hospital with NO hope, No dreams, No cure. STOP NOW!

My daughter and I went Body Worlds a few years ago and I would recommend anyone who smokes and wants to quit to go to an exhibit. There was the preserved lung of a smoker that would have turned anyone away from cigarettes. It was the grossest thing I've ever seen.

I would love to see and enormous tax on cigarettes, even more that already. Smoking benefits no one. And those who smoke don't realize how offensive it is to everyone around them. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to enjoy the park or the frog pond with my kids and having to smell someones cigarette smoke. I think it should be illegal. It is aggrevating to see someone driving down the road puffing a cigarette with the windows up and kids in the car. NEWS FLASH: CIGARETTE SMOKE STINKS. No one likes the smell or the harmful effects it causes. I hope this initiative takes off like wild fire!

It can take off with your help. Go to http://www.acscan.org/montana and become a member. Your $20 donation will also get you a "Project Pink Lungs" t-shirt. I know I'll be wearing mine with pride.

As several have stated, this is a public health issue.

Smiley, I commend you for making the decision to quit. You would be amazed how much your lungs will improve--even within 24 hours of not smoking.

I really wish there was more being done about young smokers.

Here is where I have to raise my ugly Libertarian head (check out my score in the other thread).

The government has done WAY MORE than enough to educate potential smokers. Witness me....class of '79, I have been scared s h i tless to ever smoke a nail my entire life.

The government CANNOT MAKE YOU SMARTER. It all boils down to gene pool, family upbringing, and the educational system. The government cannot crank out the next Einstein or Edison....you have to make it on your own.

I am a smoker, I took it up as a teenager, and it was the dumbest decision of my life. I'm addicted now, and it's the hardest thing to quit (aside from heroin?).



Or you will end up dying from your heroin use???? Just a thought.

Smiley, you admitted you started as a teenage. But yet you say you want something down about none smokers???? Hypocrite??? I think so, also you have a small child, you smoke, you have been arrested but yet you don't want children to start up the habit??? OK Smiley, sit back and think before you speak because honestly your making yourself look like a fool. Always take your own advice BEFORE preaching to others. UGH, KIDS!!!!!

Skye, don't you think if I stated that it was the dumbest thing I ever did that I would want to prevent others from taking that same path?

You're just weird, and I really don't care.

And for the record, I don't do heroin. I was comparing the addiction to heroin to cigarettes because of their difficulty to quit. You are not very bright IMO, and I deduce this from your lack of even trying to figure out my statements before critizing them.

Think twice before you post.

[This message has been edited by Smiley (6/30/2010)]

Skye, also tell me who I was preaching to directly? Can you use some proper grammar and spelling so I can actually decipher what you are saying without too much effort. (That's a serious request, not just me being a "bitch.")

Obstructive Cardiopulmonary disease is another keen way to die! Your lungs lose the ability to expand as the healthy tissue becomes scar tissue. You suffocate. Very V e r y slowly.

I say raise the taxes to the heavens. If the poor low income people can't afford 'em, maybe they won't smoke 'em, thus saving their lives, their health, and the lives and health of those around them. You want healthcare reform? You want to lower healthcare costs? STOP SMOKING!!!!!

When the bars went smoke free in Helena, heart attacks dropped 60%. Seriously. Even the anti-smoking folks were stunned. Lives were saved from day one!

Smiley--YOU GO GIRL!!!! Yes, it is hard like [email protected] to quit but think about the money, think about your daughter, think about how holy-than-thou you can be when you succeed. It may not work the first time. It may be miserable. You may need to see a doctor to get the patch or the gum or something but YOU CAN DO IT!!!! You are smart, stubborn and can turn your life around!!!!!!

Let me know if I can help! I used to be a professional nanny and can babysit up a storm so if you need a night out or something, get in touch!



Dana--Sorry to hear about Kent! I was in Belgrade visiting my brother Bill when Bill Bovee called to tell Bill Freese the news! You and Carmen hang in there!!!!!

Gunnar is right. The government has done everything under the sun to warn people the dangers of smoking. People today know the risks, and make a personal decision to continue their lifestyle and that is their god given right. Some people find it easy to stop. Others can never let go of their habit. Humankind have been intoxicating themselves since the beginning of time and it's not going to stop anytime soon.

Nathan, don't you have some weed to go smoke? I seriously suggest you lay off. Your not capable of having an open dialogue. you just want a heated argument. You must be inexperienced.

You seriously suggest I lay off..... What are you gonna do? Burn my pizza? Not deliver it on time? Give me Buffalo wings when I order BBQ? I guess I should be scared, you have been arrested 3 times. You must be pretty hardcore.

Maybe I will go smoke some weed...maybe not. Wait wasn't it you that said...

People who are critical of others habits are annoying and immature

I have never admitted to smoking weed (which by the way is way less harmful for ya than cigs....and cheaper but i digress} on this forum so your pulling stuff out of your ass with that one. Hypocrite. Go puff one of your cancer sticks.

[This message has been edited by Nathan Jessup (6/30/2010)]

You need to choose careful words.

For me to be a hypocrite because I say that people who critize others habits are immature, I would have had to call my self non-annoying and mature. I don't believe I have done that, but if I have, show me the proof please.

Also, for me to be a hypocrite on the teen smoking issue, I would have to say I disapprove of teens smoking. Then I would have to contradict that by approving of it in another circumstance.

I don't believe hypocrisy extends through time, so you can't use the argument "Well you approved when you started." When I started, I never voiced an opinion against it.

If I learn something else, I can change my mind. Right now, I'm immature, verbal, opinionated, but intelligent. It's a nasty combination... like cigarette ash and pizza. :/

Skye- I saw your facebook. Just because I was arrested doesn't mean I have committed a crime. (if you knew me, you'd know that I am an very imperfect human) On that note, I always knew not to take pics of illegal activities. I'm sure Mike's would love to have you as their poster teen

$1800 dollars a year, if I put that away in a college fund for my daughter, she would have almost 29,000 dollars when she turned 18.

You're forgetting interest. If you put it someplace where it could make 4% interest (not easy to find but not impossible these days) she would have more like $40,000 from a $150 monthly contribution for 16 years. Sure beats a tumor on your lung for the same price.

I started a blog LOL just to trail my journey. http://smokefreeshannon.blogspot.com/

My dad was a two pack a day smoker for forty years - and if he can quit, then I'm pretty sure anybody can. My advice would be to look into Chantix - a lot of the quitters I know had really good luck with it. It also gives you amazingly vivid and bizarre dreams, so that's a bonus.

We are out of our first order of Project Pink Lungs t-shirts and are just about to order a second run. This has been a very successful project in Montana. If you would like to support this cause, please go to http://www.acscan.org/montana. Don't delay; join today!

TAX EM. The very best tax is one that someone else pays.

I wonder how much tax increase per pack would cover what smoking costs the taxpayers in Social Security and Medicaid alone.

Just heard that obesity is now the number 1 cause of preventable death. Junk food tax!

Jeff, you'd probably owe every smoker a bunch of dough. When you're a 100 year old vegetable bleeding the system dry, thank your own brilliant foresight.

From The Campaign For Tobacco-Free Kids:

Current state tobacco tax in Montana: $1.70 (17th among all states)
Smoking-caused costs in Montana: $9.17
Annual healthcare expenditures in Montana directly caused by tobacco use: $277 million
Smoking-caused State Medicaid program spending each year: $67 million

How much does it cost for old people?

These are averages of all ages in Montana.