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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3857) 17 years ago
"MC.books & news

I don`t like some of the things I`ve heard
about books & news lately.It seems to me spewing
negativity into our community is not a good thing.
Don`t you think positiveness would be the way to go.

shame shame." Van, MC.com, 2005



I don't know how the above quote flew under my radar but somehow it managed.

Van, how right you are. Book stores are and have been notoriously dangerous places. Why, I can list one heinous event after another that takes place in that pit of vipers.

Friday night open Mic, allowing anyone that thinks they have talent to take the stage and perform for an appreciative audience. They even allow banjo's. God, where is the humanity?

The writers group, who knows with that bunch of subersive goofballs. I hear it is a woman's group. I have thought that I would infilterate but I look ridiculous in a dress and the beard would need to go.

The Salon, I have attended these meetings (as a ruse) and can verify that they are a hotbed of citizens that think they have a right to discuss current issues in a an unmoderated forum. Well, you can just imagine where the ideas could go without some right thinking person directing the topics and conversations. The 4th of July parade came out of this so called "Salon". Miles City had been just fine without a parade for years. We don't need a parade, we have the Bucking Horse Sale. That's what the Chamber of Commerce is all about. If they thought we needed a parade we would have one.

Politics, The owner has somehow (I suspect fowl play at the vote count) managed to get himself a seat on the City Council. He even had the nerve to suggest alternative's to two sides of issues that the council would have undoubtedly sent to committee for resolution, eventually.

Art, I have witnessed many examples of art that have caused people to exclaim, "what is it?" and "I don't get it." What's wrong with a nice landscape or something that would match home decor. That's what the people want. Who wants to to be subjected to stuff that makes you think? It is spreading. Another artist has filled his head with ideas and now people are forced to see this type of art in two other downtown venue's.

Saturday night speakers and performers, we have plenty of folks right here in town that would say something if they thought it was important.

I could go on and on but I think you get the idea. OH! I almost forgot....why do you think he keeps the books in the back,....hmmm?




[This message has been edited by Tucker Bolton (edited 11/24/2005).]
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Posted by cheryred1973 (+195) 17 years ago
Tucker: As usual you have caused me to laugh myself silly..By the way, I think you could pull the dress off, leave the beard, with such miscreants frequenting the bookstore, I'm sure they would not notice!!!
Van get a life!!! The bookstore is one of the most positive places, ideas, forums, etc.., to come along in our community in years!
DeArlyne Kappel
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 17 years ago
So we only put a positive spin on things? Okay, how about "our storm sewer pipes are old enough to be eligible for the National Historic Register." Yeah, let's not say anything bad about anything and then all bad things will go away.

Boy, if that worked, I'd stop talking about the current gummit in a heartbeat!

Tucker, I can loan you a corset. I'll wear it to the Cameron screening on Tuesday night and then you can have it through the holidays so you can have an hour glass figure. Or possibly just faint from lack of oxygen.

Amorette
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Posted by Van (+559) 17 years ago
No No Tucker, Van is an ass but you are not going to pin that quote on me. I buy allot of books from there. Get your facts straight before you spew.

That was Kyle Wolf he is no longer with us. I said in a different post that we should picket outside his store in protest for Wal-Mart. I was being SARCASTIC. I even used the sacastic Emoticon. I geuss that does not work.

[This message has been edited by Van (edited 11/24/2005).]
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Posted by Van (+559) 17 years ago
The more I think about it, the more pissed off I am getting. Once again that "Quote" as you "Quote" it was not written by VAN.
Kyle Wolf writes:

"MC.books & news

I don`t like some of the things I`ve heard
about books & news lately.It seems to me spewing
negativity into our community is not a good thing.
Don`t you think positiveness would be the way to go."




"shame shame."

I would not be so upset except I write enough stuff of my own for people to get upset about. Van
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Posted by Johnnie Lockett Thomas (+397) 17 years ago
Three big Montana cheers for Tucker and for all others who are willing to stand up and speak out for just causes.

Johnnie Lockett Thomas
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3857) 17 years ago
Van, I am so sorry. I am not being sarcastic. You are right and I have egg on my face. Please accept this apology. I should have double checked. My hair trigger and caustic remarks should have been more accuratly directed.

Credit should be given where it is due and it was Kyle's post not Van's that raised my hackles.

[This message has been edited by Tucker Bolton (edited 11/24/2005).]

[This message has been edited by Tucker Bolton (edited 11/24/2005).]
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Posted by Chad (+1765) 17 years ago
I caught a bit of a story on NPR this morning about Montana's anti-protest laws around the time of WWI. Apparently Montana enacted a law making it illegal to protest the war or to speak badly about our government (State & Federal).

Custer County prosecuted more cases than any other in the state.

There is a guy at one of the universities trying to find some of those prosecuted, or their relatives; he wants to find out how their lives were effected, what it did to them.

There is probably more information at the Yellowstone Public Radio website.
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Posted by JOE WHALEN (+614) 17 years ago
Hey, I appreciate those vigorous (and colorful!) defenses but Kyle made a valid point. I personally wasn't offended by his statement.

Without wishing to put words in his mouth, I think he'd agree with me when I say that he might have been trying to illustrate what it's like to be on the receiving end of criticism regarding one's business. That seems completely justified given the recent showing of the Wal Mart movie at the bookstore, doesn't it?

Point well-taken, Kyle.
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3857) 17 years ago
Joe, not in defense of anything in particular but I attended that showing. The film to me was negitive the discussion was balanced. As the result of postings on Miles City dot com and discussions after the film I am no longer diametrically opposed to Wal-Mart. I still don't like it but I do think they have a right to exist. It has also made me look at a community, it's government, individual business men and how they act or react to the coming of a box store. More of the City Planner coming back, I guess.

I suppose the questions raised regarding Kyle's posting are; Being on the recieving end of any criticism is tough. Is the criticism constructive? Mine was not. Is the criticism fair? Mine could have been a little mean and it wasn't even accurate.

I hope, I have learned something from this experience. I wish Kyle could have been present for all of the discussion regarding the film. And I hope Van doesn't kick my ass the next time he see's me.
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+10255) 17 years ago
Quote;
>>I caught a bit of a story on NPR this morning about Montana's anti-protest laws around the time of WWI. Apparently Montana enacted a law making it illegal to protest the war or to speak badly about our government (State & Federal). . . .<<

I believe this would be the research and work being done by Clemens P. Work - - Clem is on the faculty at the School of Journalism, University of Montana, Missoula.

Here's an article on his ongoing research (and recently published book) dealing with Montana's 1918 Sedition Act - the model for the Federal Sedition Act (May 16, 1918).

The book is:
Work, Clemens P. DARKEST BEFORE DAWN : SEDITION AND FREE SPEECH IN THE AMERICAN WEST (University of New Mexico Press, 2005).

The article also has a clink to Work's website - "The Montana Sedition Project" - http://www.seditionproject.net/

For those interested in the topic, I'd also recommend:

Gutfeld, Arnon. MONTANA'S AGONY: YEARS OF WAR AND HYSTERIA, 1917-1921 (Gainesville: University Presses of Florida, 1979).

It's an older publication, but I believe the scholarship still stands up - it can probably be obtained through interlibrary loan via the MLN:
http://montanalibraries.org/

--Hal
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Posted by Michael E. Moore (+17) 17 years ago
Just some facts about your local Wal-Mart:
It employs 148 citzens of Montana, paying $184,000 a month in salaries.
It will hire 125 more citizens of Montana, with about double the salary disbursement. That's alot of money in this small economy. The prices of the groceries will be based on fair competion, including the Billings area. This will help the poor, and middle income families in Miles City area. If anyone is against helping these families, please explain to me why? I have seen Wal-Mart stores come into small towns from Texas to California to Montana, and in every case, it is a large improvement for the area. Of course there are people who "suffer" from it, mostly those that price gouge the local consumers for years. So if you have been fair to your customers over the years, will they leave? I think not, I wouldn't, but then Wal=Mart has been fair to me for the better part of 25 years. Just remember this, first comes Wal-Mart, then probably Home Depot, then ....... progress, ain't it wonderful?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 17 years ago
Of course, most of the employees work less than full-time, get no health benefits and often qualify for food stamps and Medicade. They are not providing new jobs, just moving old jobs from existing businesses--which often paid better and had benefits--to new, part-time, less benefits jobs. They keep prices "down" by buying stuff so cheap that only slave labor in China can provide it and refusing to pay the price the supplier needs to stay in business. They also do things like require their own employees to buy basic office equipment like photo copiers. Richest family in America and they make the employees have bake sales among themselves to buy materials the corporation should supply.

Yah. I'm so happy to see more low paid, no benefit part time jobs come to my town so I can buy cheap crap.

Amorette
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Posted by Michael E. Moore (+17) 17 years ago
Boy are you wrong as lips on a chicken, almost all of the department managers are full time as well as most of the receiving and stocking crews. Their healthcare is through Blue Cross and Blue Shield of California, and they do not require their employees to purchase any office equipment as all of what is needed is there. If an employee wants to do something on their own, than yes, they need to have there own equipment to do it, and it has to be approved!! As it is with any major company in America, and in China, the wages are set by the government, not the employer, read up on something besides Union material, you might learn some truth.
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Posted by Chris (+24) 17 years ago
You see Mike, here is another person that has no clue. I have been working there for not even a year and I will have medical/dental starting the first of the year. Now, I think lately Wal*Mart has hired atleast 20 new employees. Tell me Amorette, what local business has closed in the last two weeks that these people came from?? Low paying job?? I had 4 job offers when I moved to this city and Wal*Mart was the highest paying. So stop watching these movies on how bad Wal*Mart is and get some real facts.

Oh, on the bake sales that we have, would you make me a pie so I can sell it at one of the sales we have for two cents, cause that is all your input is worth!
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 17 years ago
Tut, tut. Insulting people who disagree with you is not necessary. And the photo copier at the current Wal-Mart was not purchased by the corporate office but by bake sales and fund raisers held by employees. Really, truly. Ask anyone who was there when the store opened. It opened sans fax machine and photo copier in the office.

Amorette


Oh, and I got my info LONG before the movie came out. Haven't even seen the movie. I have this oddball habit of going to places like the Dept. of Labor for statistics. Actual facts and that sort of thing.

[This message has been edited by Amorette Allison (edited 11/27/2005).]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15369) 17 years ago
"This will help the poor, and middle income families in Miles City area. If anyone is against helping these families, please explain to me why?"

It is disingenuous to posture WalMart as the "savior" of the poor. While those families may have more disposable income by shopping at WalMart due to cheaper prices, the truth is that increase gets disposed of at WalMart. The family is not necessarily better off, but WalMart is sure is. WalMart understands the psychology of shopping well enough to make sure they get it all.

Also, because of the poor quality of merchandise WalMart offers, items such as kitchen appliances, bicycles, toys,etc have to be replaced more often. (They used to offer some higher end stuff but now it's all "Durabrand" crap). The end result is that you don't really save anything long term and if you want to buy quality you have to go out of town or on-line to get it because WalMart has run the other local options out of business. Go count the number of clothing and drug stores that used to be on main street that are no longer with us. (At one time there were 4 drug stores in town, 3 on main.)

My biggest frustration with WalMart is that they will have an item for two-weeks and then they are out of it. At WalMart in Gillette, you can not buy a winter coat today (and it is very cold out). They sold their "allotment" in Sept-Oct and if you missed out you're screwed. They never have a consistent supply of consumable items like deodorant, toothpaste, or computer paper. One time they will have something and then it is gone for 3 months.

These supply issues force poor families to spend money outside of what they have budgeted. You quickly learn that if you see it at WalMart and you are going to need it, you better buy it, because it won't be there tomorrow. There is probably a correlation between the increase in consumer credit card debt and the arrival of WalMart in a community. Again, the poor suffer.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (edited 11/28/2005).]
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Posted by Tucker Bolton (+3857) 17 years ago
My frustration is similar. I purchased a vacuum from them and by the time I needed the new hepa filter, they no longer carried them. I actually have had ill fortune with anything purchased from Wal-Mart that plugs in. I exchanged a phone three times before I got one that worked. I returned a stereo that didn't play and a lamp that didn't light.

I will admit (before someone points it out) I had no trouble exchanging or getting refunds on the items. I have never had this problem, on a continual basis with other retailers. I sometime wonder if they buy second quality or overrun stuff.
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Posted by Diana (+11) 17 years ago
MA MA says Walmart is the Debull!!!!!
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4462) 17 years ago
The statement that Wal-Mart sells crap doesn't fly. You pay for what you get. Wal-Mart sells the cheapest of the cheapest of crap, but they have all the other crap that any other retailer carries. You can buy a mag-lite or a sony stereo. The reason that businesses fail in the face of Wal-Mart is when they have nothing to offer that isn't already available. The only way that Miles City businesses will succeed is if they offer something that Wal-Mart doesn't - service, human connection, a unique experience, or the very high end.

Miles City is, was, and continues to be socially divided by income. Don't bother denying the fact, it won't make it go away and this thread demonstrates the problem. There is no reason to deny people the right to lower prices, regardless if their disposable income is spent at Wal-Mart. Extra disposable income helps raise anyone's desired quality of life. It doesn't really matter if you disagree with the way they spend their money.

The battle isn't lost though. I actually think that Wal-Mart will create only positive change. It's the best means for bringing the cream to the top. Miles City Books & News appears to be providing citizens with a new and unique experience, creating a value for itself that makes an extra buck on a best seller well worth the cost. Nobody shops there because Joe has nice legs.
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+12372) 17 years ago
Joe has been known to wear shorts on those hot summer days, you know. Smirk.

I always find it interesting that rich folks feel THEY need more disposable income so they should get raises and tax breaks but poor folks shouldn't get raises and tax breaks because they'll just waste their money on food or housing or something.

You can't improve a national economy without strengthening the middle class. Look at any number of third world countries. You need a middle class to have disposable income to spend on new vacuums and cars and what not in order to support the monied classes who make their income off of investments.

Sooner or later, screwing the poor will screw the rich. I only hope to live long enough to see it happen.

Amorette
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15369) 17 years ago
Buck: come shop at WalMart in Gillette... they sell only crap!
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Posted by William S. (+73) 17 years ago
I think that Chris and Michael's suspicion of your "oddball habit of going to places like the Department of Labor for statistics. Actual facts and that sort of thing." is probably well-deserved. No where does DLI show a correlation between people employed at Wal-Mart and those who receive food stamps and Medicaid (no "e"). Or do you have your inside sources at the Office of Public Assistance who disclose to you the names of people in town on the welfare rolls? I know, you are probably conducting your own independent on-the-street survey of employees exiting the store to inquire as to how they pay their grocery and medical bills?

Why use half-truths to make your point? Especially in arguing with people who actually work there and dispute your facts, not only on this thread, but prior Wal-Mart related threads. We've heard the photocopier story a million times. Hardly sweatshop-style employer/employee relations. And I know a few former and current cashiers who dispute your story of the pens (prior thread).

Wal-Mart isn't the only target of misinformation. I can think of others off of the top of my head. Let's see. The ghost story thread, the KATL land being sold at auction, accusing a person running for office of unauthorized access to city computers, when it was actually at the request of the police chief.

I think their skepticism may be warranted.
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