Go figure.

So, even if he was calling himself an African, how would that be any different than the welcome to Scots and friends of Scots heard every single year here in Miles City? Does that mean you don't consider yourself American, but Scottish?

No. It's simply a reference and celebration of heritage and culture.

Richard is still demanding to see Obama's "long form" birth certificate.

Doesn't really matter where he's from anymore. What does matter is that he really sucks as a President. Or, as my tea bagger sign would read:

Obama suks as a precedent. He's a real Hoover!


FH

I like your sign, Frank.

Ditto on liking Franks sign !!

The difference between a zoo and the white house.....
the zoo has an african lyon and the white house has a liyan affrican

Brilliant.

a liyan affrican. A testament to Miles City's fantastic education system.

An actual teabag sign:

Frank & Bean, it rhyme with DEAN....

At least she can spell....

Nah. I bet it's Photoshopped since the spelling is correct.

Isn't the whole Barack Africa thing the same poop they said about Chester A. Arthur?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._education

His father had initially migrated to Dunham, Lower Canada, where he and his wife at one point owned a farm about 15 miles (24 km) north of the U.S. border. There has long been speculation that the future president was actually born in Canada and that the family moved to Fairfield later. If Arthur had been born in Canada, some believe that he would not have been a natural-born citizen (interpreting the law to mean that to be a natural-born citizen one must be born on U.S. territory) and would thus have been constitutionally ineligible to serve as vice president or president.

Seems to me the Country survived that.

Richard isn't Scottish. He's 'murkin.

Why doesn't Obama produce a birth certificate, college transcripts etc? Leaves questions unanswered. I think he has something to hide. Maybe he was born in Hawaii maybe not, maybe his mother isn't who he claimed or maybe his father isn't. In any case I think there is something potentially embarassing. Why else whould he not simply put the matter to rest and produce what should be a public document? I don't think anyone is going to get anywhere on the birth certificate issue. Gonna have to refocus your energy on something else. Just my thought.

Uh, you're a couple of years behind on this issue.

http://www.snopes.com/pol...ficate.asp

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (4/9/2010)]

Oops, there goes "Steve Z's" credibility. Not that he had much to lose.

I notice no mention of his Harvard school transcripts, which he has refused to release. And why does Barrack fight lawsuites rather than just release the long form? Sorry, I don't feel that I have lost any credibility. Nobody has come up with any real argument to refute anything I have said. David has come up with some qualified clarifications though. Did I state that Obama was not a natural born citizen? No! Read it again. I think he has SOMETHING embarassing in these documents that EVERY other president has produced without issue. I don't no what, only stated a couple of possibilities. Also if you read my statements again I said that persueing the birth issue is a waste of time and energy.

Well that was amusing.

Oh, lord. We in Montana have always been a few years behind the times and it looks like some of those "birthers" are part of that movement. Keep up, people, and call Obama a socialist. Even though he isn't and hasn't offered any socialist agendas but, hey, why let facts get the in way of a good rant.

Always happy to provide entertainment, but I certainly hope I wasn't just called/associated with the "birthers".

[This message has been edited by Steve Z (4/9/2010)]

Nobody has come up with any real argument to refute anything I have said.

Maybe he was born in Hawaii maybe not, maybe his mother isn't who he claimed or maybe his father isn't.

Per the Snopes link:

The certificate shows his full name to be "Barack Hussein Obama II", it lists his father's race as "African" and his mother's as "Caucasian", it contains no information about religion, and it reports his birthplace as being Honolulu, Hawaii.

Moreover, both of Honolulu's major newspapers (the Advertiser and the Star-Bulletin) published announcements in August 1961 documenting the birth, in Honolulu, of a son to "Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama" on August 4, 1961.

Yep, Steve, definitely a "birther".

Denise I was not trying to state fact. You should have gotten that by the MAYBE's in my statements. I really don't care. I was only trying to illustrate the FACT that Obama has not produced the documentation that every other president has, and has fought lawsuits over that, why? There is no doubt in my mind that Barack is a natural born citizen, hence the whole waste of time and energy part. He would have had to produce the documentation when he ran for president. But is it so far fetched to believe that there is something on his "long form" that may be embarsassing? Since this thread is about the "birther" issue I don't feel that any of my statements are years behind.

Steve, please provide a definition of a "long form" birth certificate. Do you have one?

Dave are you just trying to stir the pot?

Was the question too difficult for you, Steve?

I was refering to a previous opinion, I believe it was yours Dave. That is why "long form" was in quotes. And you people tell me to keep up.

[This message has been edited by Steve Z (4/9/2010)]

I am curious as to what you think would be found on a "long form" that is not found on his Certification of Live Birth.

It is true that some "short form" certificates lack information:

Per Wikipedia:

Long forms, also known as certified photocopies, book copies, and photostat copies, are exact photocopies of the original birth record that was prepared by the hospital or attending physician at the time of the child's birth.[19] The long form usually includes parents' information (address of residence, race, birth place, date of birth, etc.), additional information on the child's birthplace, and information on the doctors who assisted in the birth of the child. The long form also usually includes the signature of the doctor involved and at least one of the parents.[20]

Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are less expensive and more readily accessible. Information is taken from the original birth record (the long form) and stored in a database that can be accessed quickly when birth certificates are needed in a short amount of time. Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is given a title such as "Certification of Birth", "Certification of Live Birth", or "Certificate of Birth Registration." The short form typically includes the child's name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth, although some also include the names of the child's parents. When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances [19]. Nearly all states in the U.S. issue short forms certifications, on both state and local levels.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Since Obama's Certification of Live Birth contains all of the information you would find on a typical "long form", I'm confused as to your point. Perhaps you are confused as to the definitions of "long form" vs. "short form".

Anyhow, if you are conceding that his birth should not be questioned, what's the point of the discussion in the first place? If his place of birth is a fact, there would be absolutely no reason to use "maybes" unless you are simply trying to rile the masses.

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (4/9/2010)]

My point, as should be painfully obvious, is that Barack Obama has failed to produce documentation that EVERY other president before he has. WHY? There must be something embarassing. I don't know what or I would have stated such in definate terms. Why would he fight lawsuits? I noticed by definition that the long form contains information about the parents and the short form doesn't. How hard would it be to just produce the documents? WHY? WHY? WHY? Still no answers.

[This message has been edited by Steve Z (4/9/2010)]

BTW Denise, thanks for the clarification on long form vs. short form.

Steve, it's my understanding that the State of Hawaii birth certificate that Obama provided is the longest form of birth certificate that Hawaii had at the time he was born.

It's also my understanding that at Harvard Law School, Obama graduated Magna Cum Laude, which, according to the Havard Law School website, is awarded to the top 10% of Harvard Law School students.

Do you get that your demanding to know the "truth" in the face of the truth is what qualifies you as a "birther"?

You are right Steve. There is something painful here, but I'm not sure we'd agree on what that something was.

Your point, according to the latest post, is that he has failed to provide documentation. You state prior that some of the documentation you are referencing is birth-related documentation. I have shown that birth-related documentation has been provided.

I'm so confused. Larry, I think we need an emoticon for banging one's head against the wall.

Anyway, continue on with the conspiracy theories. It does make for interesting reading. Perhaps you could weave some local political machination in as well and really spice it up.

Oops. Too late. I see that's been taken care of on another thread.

yep, it's very clear. steve is a birther. Please produce your long form steve

BTW,

I noticed by definition that the long form contains information about the parents and the short form doesn't. How hard would it be to just produce the documents?

His "short form" does contain information on his parents, and the document has been provided. Look up the copy for yourself.

As Dave also indicated, the form provided is what is available for births during his era in Hawaii.

So Dave, if I claimed that I graduated cum laude from MSU-B would you believe me? Or maybe I graduated from Harvard as a cum laude. Or was it MCC. My only issue is that these documents could have been released and have not been. WHY? Again, WHY? You keep attacking me but you still haven't explained why haven't these been made public. I will concede that the birth certificat may have been produced publicly, but if so why fight the lawsuits? Can't a guy point out a FACT without being labled a birther. It is my understanding that "birthers" believe that Barack was born in Kenya. I do not believe that and anyone who does shoulde get over it. If everything is as President Obama says there should be no issue with releasing all the documentation to put these issues to rest. He is acting like a guilty man. MAYBE he is MAYBE he isn't.

I never put 2 and 2 together till now. I finally see the light. President Obama was behind the Kennedy assasination. Thank you so much for opening my eyes. (conspiracy theory)

That makes about as much sense as anything else you've said on this thread, but you've stopped a little short. Let's get more in-depth.

Perhaps he assassinated Pres. Kennedy because he found out he was really the love child between Kennedy and Lena Horne, and Kennedy pulled some strings to force the Obamas to take the kid in, holding deportation over Mr. Obama's head if he didn't cooperate. We could expound on this in so many ways. Hmmmm.

WOW the way you put it all together is amazing. Does the FBI know about this or is it just between you I and MC.com? There has to be a Clinton involved in there somewhere though. Keep thinking.

So, a very prominent person "claims" to have graduated magna cum laude from Harvard and he really didn't and Harvard would just let that slide. Um, no. Harvard School of Law would not allow someone to lie about their graduation and their status at graduation. So, if he says he graduated from Harvard magna cum laude, I can pretty much guarantee he did.

What it comes down to is sore losers. Nothing more. Nothing less. People who don't believe in the American system of democracy whining when when it doesn't work in their favor but works for the majority.

The President of the United States of America was born in Hawaii (no question if you actually accept facts over hallucinations) and graduated Magna Cum Laude from Harvard because Harvard would not allow a liar to claim that.

End of discussion.

Oh, and I understand some paper he wrote an an undergraduate have gone missing! Oh noes! I wonder how many of MY undergraduate papers have gone missing! This will keep me from every running for office.

Well it's pretty simple... throw a little meat in the cage and watch 'em go berserk.

At this point, I am more concerned about how long he gets to stay than where he is from. The sooner he moves back to HI the happier I will be.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (4/10/2010)]

And the whole point of my statements is WHY? Why didn't he just produce the documentation like every other president before him? My point was not to question if, who, where, when, but WHY? President Obama could have put this fire out long ago by simply producing the paper work. Instead he has hit requests head on and fought lawsuits. It is not about who won or lost but the principal. MAYBE he feels he is above all that and doesn't feel dignified by such requests. I don't know and don't care. But if everything he says is true why hide it? He has nothing to gain by hiding information and credibility to loose. Read my statements over again. This time pay careful attention. Never did I make a direct accusation. I merly posed the questions. Take my rant for what it is worth, but don't read into it.

In 234 years, this country has had a$$holes, poopheads and procreate-ups as Presidents and we're still kicking.

I have a feeling we'll be ok after Obama.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (4/10/2010)]

Take my rant for what it is worth, but don't read into it.

You must be new around here. That's not the way the left here at mc.com works.

You maybe right Kyle. When I was a child I thought George Washington was a great, honest, outstanding man. Later in life I found that he, like every other president we have had, took advantage of his possition as president. I still think he as was a great leader and instrumental in the founding of our great country, but for God's sake, can't any of them just be honest?

[This message has been edited by Steve Z (4/10/2010)]

Steve Z thinks President Obama is shifty. Perhaps he expects him to do a jig and eat watermelon also.

At this point, I am more concerned about how long he gets to stay than where he is from. The sooner he moves back to HI the happier I will be.

True that!

You forgot the fried chicken, but no Wendy, my expectations of President Obama are not nearly that high.

[This message has been edited by Steve Z (4/10/2010)]

This thread is rapidly becoming devolution at it's finest.

[This message has been edited by Kyle L. Varnell (4/10/2010)]

He's a helluva lot better than anyone the a--h--e Repubicans can offer.

I love how everyone is mad at Obama for cleaning up Bush's mess. He's trying. Do you realize how bad things were when Bush left? I thought at that point people were already apathetic to the state of the union...Sigh.

The Rickenhawk has been a little weak lately. Luckily we now have Steve Zilch to take up the slack.

One thing I learned about debate is that when an opponent is starting to loose, he /she normally resorts to name calling. It is just human nature.