Does anyone know what is going into the old Hardees building? PLEASE don't tell me it's another casino!

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner folks!

Honestly. I think we have so many casinos, everyone could have a seat at a machine at the same time. If we get another one we need more people.

Yes, another casino...like there isn't enough of them in this town...

Can anyone tell me what the inside of one looks like??

We need casino's! It gives people who don't work something to do during the day.

Maybe MC should just setup slot machines in the old country market parking lot. That was they would be just "sinos".

in elko nevada they have video gaming machines in the albertsons,(right next to the hard liquor) and people were using them. i was quite baffled.

I've never understood why Montana doesn't just legalize "table" gambling so they could build an honest to goodness casino for a change. The only thing that a video gaming machine is useful for, is slowing down the rate of money being spent when the craps table, or 3 card poker tables are taking all your hard earned dough! hahaha

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER !

Wow. Every time I come back to ol' M.C., there is another Casino gracing Haynes Ave. For a small town in such a depressed economic condition, "we" sure do support a lot of casinos. Sure, much of it is the truckers, but the locals are doing their part as well.

Speaking of Haynes and truckers, do you know what I miss? FLYING J.

Former: I miss flying J also. They had the BEST breakfast in town. Plus we live just down the road from it so it was perfect!

Agreed. They had some good food, and they kept all of the day-um semis out of the Haynes area... and with the truck stop at Town Pump came the Casinos, and with the combination of the two, the entrance to Miles City isn't quite as quaint as it used to be. See ya Munchies and Hardees! Remember Munchies and great chicken and ice cream? Hardees - with cinnamon raisin biscuits for breakfast and hot ham and cheese and roast beef for lunch? Yup, I miss it.

Lets not forget (as much as I'd like to) the terrible incident 7 or so years ago with the mother and twin child run over by a semi in front of the father and twin sibling in the parking lot there at Town Pump... I can't hardly blame the truck driver - nor the deceased - that truck should have been on the outskirts of town at FLYING J and not right next to McDonalds.

I'd say that between Walmart and Town Pump, our quaint little community started in to a spiral towards what we have now. A desolate down town, and a casino ridden truck stop for a main drag.

Yes, it was a great place to grow up. A lot has changed since then...

Umm... the Town Pump location has been a truck-stop for all of my life (48 years). It used to be on the very edge of town and was there before the interstate.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (3/2/2010)]

OK, Richard, I will qualify my previous statement since apparently I wasn't clear enough.

Prior to Town Pump expanding their lot by a couple of acres, Haynes wasn't riddled with casinos. 95% of semi traffic was at Flying J up to this point. You're not saying that you can't see a direct correlation between the huge Town Pump truck stop and the slew of Casinos on Haynes, are you?

Correlation is not causation.

Alrighty then, Bridgier. Why don't you name a few confounding variables for me, since you're so on the ball.

Town Pump Expands > X > 20 Casinos on Haynes

You're suggesting that there is something other than truck traffic supporting them? Or are you suggesting that they would be there even without the truck stop, because they don't need to make money? Perhaps you're saying that we have enough gambling addict residents to support all of these casinos, conveniently satellited around Town Pump, that they would be there even without the Town Pump since the truckers don't go there? Really, I'm curious.

I may just return to open up a strip club, speaking of the market need created by all of those truckers now located on South Haynes. Maybe down where the Varsity used to be? (if there isn't a Casino there already, I can't recall at the moment, since there are so many).

[This message has been edited by Former (3/2/2010)]

No Cum Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc?

No "logical fallacy" here, Denise. Feel free to come up with a better explanation.

The basis for this assumption is that the casinos are being supported by truck drivers? Correct? I would wager that this is entirely untrue. It appears to me that the clientele base consists primarily of local residents.

I'm going to blame underpants gnomes and a global increase in the number of pirates. I'm sure Rick can graph something up for me that will prove it.

Well poker machines were legalized in 1985, the Montana Lottery in 1986, 1987 MT started collecting taxes on video gambling machines. I think this may have had an effect on the number of casinos, which are mainly on Haynes because that is where the traffic is. If Flying J had stayed in business I am sure that there would be casinos out there also.

Lynne - exactly - OUT THERE.

And, as I mentioned in my earlier post, the locals are doing their part supporting them as well. To think that it is mere coincidence that these casinos surround the truck stops is ridiculous. But, don't let logic get in your way.

The underpants gnomes are probably the true culprit, though. The formula they used there was:

Close all of the restaurants > X > Profit!

The Casinos were the logical choice. NOT because of the truckers, of course - it is the logical choice because of the excess of wealth in Miles City which people can afford to pop in to slot machines.

The more I think about it, the better my strip club idea sounds. I could of course add a few slot machines along the back wall to keep with the "theme" of our main drag.

Denise - the "basis" for the LOCATION of the casinos, as well as the number, is the truck stops. Yes - Miles City has plenty of residents who are not good at understanding mathematical odds and who enjoy feeding slot machines. I'm not saying otherwise. It is pretty clear that casinos are located near the truck stops, and you know as well as I do that there are truck drivers stopping in the casinos.

Again, my complaint isn't the casinos themselves, it is the location - and the establishments which they have "replaced."

I think all of Miles City's fast food restaurants are located on Haynes Ave. too. It's not the traffic, it's the truckers.

You know it, David. Wait... they were all there prior to the great truck stop relocation.

"The great truck stop relocation"?

This sounds epic.

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (3/2/2010)]

Doesn't it? I coined it myself.

Bottom line - I don't care. Perhaps had I been living there for the past ten years, it would have gradually crept up on me and I wouldn't have noticed or minded. But, when I go back to visit friends and family in MC, I note that the landscape has definitely changed. Down town is empty, and you can't swing a dead cat on Haynes without hitting a casino. We never needed Walmart when I was a kid - but now you cannot buy everyday items anywhere else. If that doesn't bother anyone else, it is no skin off of my teeth, I suppose.

Since we're all just pulling theories out of the air here, I would suggest that they are interested in being close to the interstate, not just the truck stops specifically. Just like every other business in town. If you'll notice it's not just Casinos that are popping up on Haynes.

And what everyday items can you not buy anywhere but Walmart?

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (3/2/2010)]

The "average" passing through traveler doesn't stop to toss money in slot machines. Near the highway doesn't "explain" it. The truck stops are near the highway, and the casinos are near the truck stops.

I'm not saying that I have an iron clad in depth study to support my observation - but it speaks volumes that no one is willing to accept that what I am saying is even possible. I say that it is in fact highly probable.

I would say the "fact" (since we are so loosely throwing that term around) that the casinos are supported by locals, rather than truck drivers, would make it less than highly probable. Locals do not care if a casino is near a truck stop. Traffic volume would explain the coincidence, as Lynne and others have mentioned. The first rule of business is location, location, location. Haynes Avenue happens to be the "it" location at the moment.

As far as the downtown is concerned, thousands of downtowns across America face the very same dilemma. The problem is a byproduct of Interstates and discount superstores. Remember, K-mart was around long before Wal-mart in Miles City. People cried foul then too. The casino explosion in Miles City is more a reflection of what we, as local residents, are willing to spend our hard-earned money on.

I would hope that with a household median income of less than $30,000 and nearly 15% pushing the poverty line people would spend less of their money, however earned, on these casinos (and since the word "fact" is being tossed around loosely I also toss the word "casino" around loosely). Maybe it's best that MC's casinos are what they are?

but it speaks volumes that no one is willing to accept that what I am saying is even possible.

Well, anything is possible, but I don't think your hypothesis is probable. You posit that the presence of Lucky Lil's has acted like a magnet of sorts, drawing in other casino's and forcing out existing restaurants. The mechanism for this is left undefined, leaving no real bridge between event A and outcome B.

Others have pointed out that casinos have become an efficient way of transferring Money A in Pocket B to Pocket C. As Haynes Ave. is currently the locus of commerce in Miles City, casino owners would naturally gravitate towards these locations, as these locations provide what is colloquially termed as "a target rich environment".

Another example of this is Grand Ave. in Billings, which, as far as I can tell, has nary a single truckstop, but is rife with casinos.

But again, if it makes you feel better, the theory you advance is possible, although I think it would gain more traction if you could work some magical fairy ponies into it as well.

Yet a whole lot of these people are the ones sitting at the casinos. I don't have anything against gambling per se. If you are someone who plays the machines and doesn't complain about how you barely make a living or doesn't have kids sitting at home doing without or can pay all of your bills, then more power to ya. My wife used to work in casinos and this is not the case. A good chunk of them have kids in crappy clothes, not being fed like they should or have the supplies they need for school. Instead of using their money (right now tax returns are the big funds for the machines) for clothes, food, a decent home, pay bills, the money is getting plunked into the machines, beer, cigarettes. Try listening to people in town who are on the poverty line complain about how they struggle and can't afford stuff, all the while playing the machines, smoking and drinking. It's all about priorities. They could have nicer stuff if they would stop wasting their money on crap. Not one single person who gambles, smokes or drinks should complain about wages or what they have to do without. If you don't believe it, go into any of the local casinos in town and see for yourself. It's local poor people making the businesses run.

Here are facts:
From a recent study by The University of Montana Bureau of Business and Economics, headed by Dr Paul Polzin

78% of Montanans gamble, including video,lotto,bingo,keno,etc.
They are evenly split men, and women, and well spread 18 and older.
Six out of ten are married.
93% are high school grads and attended college, or have a college degree.
1.9 % are unemployed.
94% receive no plubic assitance, and 80% receive NO social security.
30% make $50,000+ a year.
30.5% make $15,000-$35,000 a year.
1 in 5 have an income of $35,000 to $50,000 a year.
1 and 5 have an annual income of less than $15,000 a year.

[This message has been edited by Bruce Wilson (3/2/2010)]

Bruce, take a walk around the local casinos. This study has just about zero to do with Miles City. Must have been taken in the real Montana, Billings and westward.

Interesting results on the survey. Did it break out gamblers by type of gambling? I know quite a few people that buy a lottery ticket when they gas up that never go inside a casino.

Yeah, including lottery tickets in that study definitely makes it less useful. Lottery tickets are technically gambling, but that's a whole different thing than going to a casino for the purpose of playing slots.

This specific study by Dr Poulzin and the University only addressed video gambling.

While I doubt that 94% of Miles City's video gamblers receive no public assistance, I certainly cannot speak about those who receive no plubic assitance. Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (3/2/2010)]

Got a link Bruce?

Hey, at least he didn't miss the 'L' entirely.