From today's Billings Gazette:

Miles City rebuilding begins
http://billingsgazette.co...002e0.html

That's actually pretty cool. Sounds like Flotkoetter has good intentions. Please don't erect another cinderblock building with a tin roof.

I wonder if roasting coffee is in the plan there? It sounds like an excellent plan - I really hope it works.

Sounds great as long as they don't take any business away from Kafe Utza.

You don't approve of competition?

That sounds great although it will obviously compete with Cafe Utza. It sounds like the guy has the resources and experience to make it a success as well. Honestly that sounds better than I could have hoped for in terms of the speed that it is being done in and the quality of the business. Looking forward to stopping in for a coffee and a pastry next spring.

As I understand it, they aren't thinking pastry but bread and are doing a lunch counter, not a coffee shop.

Hmm, but I want pastries. Actually bread would be good if they know what they're doing. I get so irritated when I go to the grocery stores and they have "artisinal" french bread and it has a soft crust. French bread is suppose to be crunchy dang it. I have to assume that it's harder to make that way (steam injection oven?) and people like it soft but that's just not how french bread is supposed to be. They also sell "hard rolls" which are soft as well.

I hope they DO bring a lunch counter. Then it would be close enough to work that I'd get off my lazy butt and walk down to have some lunch, instead of driving out to McD's to get a grease burger. I hope they are looking at this, because I'd love it they brought in some classics like Chicken Fried Steak and Homemade mash potatoes... Homemade Pie.... Crap. I'm hungry now!

Dan Mowry wrote:

You don't approve of competition?

I think I heard this argument when Wal-Mart decided to come to town.

And we all know that the world ended that day.

For half of Miles City's businesses, I'd say you're not incorrect, Levi.

Which half?

K-mart and County Market to name two.

Those were the two that came to mind for me as well. If Brian's assertion is true then there must be at least a couple hundred more though.

I think most of the clothing stores left after Walmart came in - Anthonys, J.C. Pennys, Fashion Island, Shores, and NZ Shoes to name a few. Some of them might have left anyway, with our shrinking population.

We also lost Sears, and Ben Franklin was never the same either, finally closing this year.

I think the Miles City Sears store closed when Sears gave up on its catalog business. I think that was in 1993 which, I think, pre-dates the arrival of Wal-Mart in Miles City.

J.C. Penney also made a corporate decision to close quite a few stores on a nationwide basis which was the demise of the Miles City store. I'm not sure it would be fair to blame Wal-Mart for that. If I recall correctly the Miles City Penney's store was managed by a person who also managed the Glasgow J.C. Penney store. The Glasgow J.C. Penney store closed at the same time and there is no Wal-Mart in Glasgow.

Someone is comparing a possibly up-and-coming local bakery of 5-10 employees that might serve coffee to a mega chain WalMart?

Thanks for the correction David. All I really know is that in the 30 years I've lived here, the number of stores has decreased significantly, not only due to Walmat and our population decline, but to the development of South Hayes Ave. as well. Once Haynes got the anchor stores of Buttreys, Osco, and Walmart, things seem to go down fast for Valley Drive East, and less fast for the downtown area.

Thank goodness for people such as Melissa Hartman (old HRH complex), Dr. Young (converting Garberson into an office building), Mac's Frontierland (cleaning up the Gingham Lady Motel site), Hogan Dentistry (cleaning up the Sagebrush Motel site), and whoever was responsible for re-opening the Red Rock motel. Hats off to those who are now trying to revive the downtown area as well.

I love driving on them, but the interstate system is probably the most responsible for changing the business structure of our town (and most other towns in America as well). However, Walmart has had an affect as well. My work takes me to Glasgow & Lewistown occasionally, and I'm always amazed how their downtown areas seem healthier than ours. Neither town has an interstate or Walmart.

In my travels to small towns in the region, I've often found a correlation between the health of Main Street and the philosophy of the banker(s) in that town. The effect is more pronounced in towns smaller than MC.

Just sayin'

Let's not forget that it was KMart who killed Tempo.

Boy, that takes me back! The Plaza was still a "hub" when I moved here - Buttreys, Osco, Tempo, A&W, Dairy Queen, First Interstate Bank, Garberson....

Don't forget the disco, Sherm. It almost makes me wish WalMart would get into the casino business.

A big, smiling yellow faced disco ball!

I think I was in the disco when the ball fell and hit the floor. Anyone else remember that?

I don't remember that but I was there when the band set off a "flash pot" that blew a chunk out of the dance floor and wrecked the band's speakers. That was the end of the music for the night. That was Bucking Horse Sale 1986.

I was there then too. Nothing to get patrons out the door like that, other than perhaps the shooting witnessed at the Casino Club in Billings.

My folks owned the Tempo in Miles City, and it died because of a corporate decision. Out of I think 47 stores around the country, the Miles City store was the only store showing a profit. We were doing quite well, but when the other 40 some stores were losing money, the corporate big wigs called it quits. Miles City supported us very well while we were in business. I don't remember K-Mart being lots of competition for us. But it was many moons ago, and my memory is not what it once was.

Matt - Thanks for your perspective. I remember my mom being upset with Kmart coming to town as she thought it will kill Tempo. She was mostly concerned about where she would buy fabric to make clothes. (mostly kilts).

We do have a problem keeping clothing stores open in MC. Ones that sell things that aren't made by Wrangler or Carhartt anyway. I'm not sure it's because of Walmart though. After all, before Walmart came along there was Kmart for the folks that wanted cheap and crappy clothing. I think that the problem is that people want to go to Billings to buy clothes where they can go to the mall and have 10 stores worth of selection to choose from rather than trying to find something that they like and that fits them in one small store on Main Street.

We shouldn't forget either that Murdoch's is fairly new and they have a HUGE clothing section, second only to Wally world although they do cater only to a certain style.

This is purely speculation of course, but the clothes I have bought from Walmart (it's been a while) were real crap and I don't really think everyone in Miles City is walking around in Walmart clothes but I could be wrong.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (12/17/2009)]

People wear things OTHER than Wrangler or Carhart??? Yup, that's me. Thank God for the COOP here in Gillette.

My wife on the other hand seems to belong to a teachers cult that shops exclusively at Christopher & Banks.

Richard,

There's not a lot of retail outlets here, so I shop at this place.
http://www.theworkingmanstore.com/

thanks for that link Hal, just ordered something for the grandson from them...Good sale prices...

I will go to Glendive to get clothes at Kmart because their stuff is couture compared to Wally World clothing.

Richard, did your mom really make kilts out of fabric from Tempo? I don't remember Tempo carrying true Scottish clan plaids. I think my mom ordered our fabric from Scotland but I loved Tempo also. I used to buy fabric there and make clothes when I was in junior high. I was such a dweeb.

I still have some hand power tools I bought at Tempo when they were going out of business. What was the name of that little tee-shirt shop that used to be beside the A&W?

There were two different t-shirt shops next to A&W. Peggy Halverson (sp?)owned one that I don't remember the name. Then there was the Far West T-shirt emporium. I still have a jacket that was silk screened at Far West when I was in high school (80-84).

[This message has been edited by Kelly (12/17/2009)]

What was the name of that little tee-shirt shop that used to be beside the A&W?

Good question, Sherm. There was also a dry cleaner out at the Plaza... back in the day when there was Miles City Laundry and Dry Cleaners, Big Sky Dry Cleaners (on Pearl St. where it curves into 10th Street)... and yet today Miles City can't even support one dry cleaner?

One of the t-shirt stores in Miles City back in the days of the t-shirt stores was the "E-Cargo Shirt Company" or something like that.

I wasn't in the disco much, but I do remember two very good Chinese resturants in part of that building - first the Canton and then the Hunan (before it moved out on Haynes). I think the tee-shirt store I was remembering was the E-Cargo one.

David - yes its certainly too bad about Miles City Laundry. Apparently there is not a dry cleaners in Glendive either, so the next closest ones are Sidney or Billings. Kind of a hassle to haul stuff that far and then make a return trip to pick it up...

The Canton was a good restaurant. I remember Dave Rivenes' commercials for that place on KYUS.

Richard, did your mom really make kilts out of fabric from Tempo? I don't remember Tempo carrying true Scottish clan plaids.

I thought she did. I am sure Col. Holcomb will be along shortly to remind me of my dementia.

What tartan did your family use? Bonine is of French origin, isn't it?

Campbell. And I live in Campbell County... how cool is that.

The name Bonine is supposedly of French origin, but most of the french has been bred out. I am mostly Scottish/Irish and German. I have given serious consideration to changing my last name to O'Bonine just to fluster/irritate future generations of family genealogists.

"What was the name of that little tee-shirt shop that used to be beside the A&W?"
1001 T Shirts or 1001 T shirt Designs[Peggy's shop]

I really think that they should do pastries! I just love driving through Three Forks and getting some pastries and coffee at Wheat Montana! I think they would get A LOT more business if they did! My friends and I have been discussing this, and we all would love it if there were pastries and I can guarantee that all of us would be regulars! That's a lot of business! If anyone knows the owners, please pass this on to them!

ss -

Have you tried the pastries at Cafe Utza? They are outstanding.

"Richard, did your mom really make kilts out of fabric from Tempo? I don't remember Tempo carrying true Scottish clan plaids."


"I thought she did. I am sure Col. Holcomb will be along shortly to remind me of my dementia".

Wendy - Richard does have dementia, although it's very selective. She got most of the kilt fabric at a woolen mills shop up near Bozeman, although she occasionally found some tartan fabric (usually not true clan plaids) at Tempo. The taffeta skirt fabric came from Tempo. BTW - Sewing your own clothes doesn't make you a dweeb, it makes you

Sherm and Ken,

Actually, Peggy's T-Shirt shop was called "1007 T Shirt Designs", not 1001...for whatever it's worth.

I didn't know they had pastries, are they freshly baked? I will try them tomorrow, I hope they are not like Walmarts "pastries".

Richard - do you buy your Scot's regalia now, or do you know someone who makes it for you?

I bought a new tam recently. Took 7 weeks to get it, as it was made to order, but it seems worth the wait. I went with black (which as you probably know, the Scots being the clear eyed and clear headed folk they are, refer to as a blue bonnet).

Telena Ruhl, the woman who markets them, offers "free for life" alterations / resizing on her tams.

It's a fine bonnet - keeps my bald old head warm even at 20 below.

http://www.mistythicket.c.../tams.html

Levi, the Voice of Buzzes being dragged to the abbatoir, wrote:

Those were the two that came to mind for me as well. If Brian's assertion is true then there must be at least a couple hundred more though.

1.) It's a figure of speech, Dr. Killjoy. Did I do the math to see if literally half of Miles City's businesses literally died? No. That would be silly.

2.) Suffice it to say that there are far fewer businesses in Miles City now than there were before Wal-Mart came to town. Can I establish an airtight causal relationship that proves that Wal-Mart was the primary reason for the demise of the aforementioned businesses? No. But would it surprise anyone if such a relationship was shown if it could be proven? No. Hellz no.

Again, I don't know the exact number (I didn't do the math, remember?), but I can say with a fair amount of certainty (but not enough to be scientific) that Miles City, circa 2009, is not nearly as robust as Miles City, circa 1997. Do you disagree?

Feel free to disagree and further suck the life out of any post I might otherwise get the slightest amount of enjoyment from writing. I now feel roughly the way I do while driving down Valley Drive East. Thanks for crushing my soul, Levi. You heartless bastard.

Dan Mowry wrote:

Someone is comparing a possibly up-and-coming local bakery of 5-10 employees that might serve coffee to a mega chain WalMart?

That wasn't my intention. I was just replying to your statement that seemed to imply that competition couldn't possibly be a bad thing. In my opinion, it can be. That's all. In this case, it probably won't be.

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (12/18/2009)]

Miles City, circa 2009, is not nearly as robust as Miles City, circa 1997. Do you disagree?

I don't particularly feel that way, no. Since neither of us has any real information or statistics, what makes you think that?

Valley Drive East was dead and buried long before Walmart arrived.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (12/18/2009)]

I'm pretty sure Wal-Mart caused the demise of Brandt Information Technology Consultants.

David, you need your own TV show. lol

Brian, actually, I'm not totally convinced that the demise of some (insert Any Town, USA) businesses at the hand of a WalMart is entirely a WalMart's fault nor a bad thing. In *some* cases it's a reflection of the tipping point where customers barely keep some marginal businesses in operation or in-check with their inflated prices because they were the only game in town. They enjoyed sticking it to customers as the tiniest little would-be-monopolies they could be until a much bigger, scarier (WalMart) competitor showed them the true power of the Dark Side of The Force. It's pretty easy to see the hurt WalMart puts on a community in many cases but I think we've all seen the odd small town businesses that acted like the biggest fish in a small pond and wasn't treating their customers much better but loved playing the victim when a WallyWorld moved in. There's multiple and valid arguments on this from every side - so I'm not being absolute, just general.

Having said all that my comment about competition was directly related to someone else's suggestion that this home-town bakery that might serve coffee may compete with Cafe Utza. In my opinion - compete away! It's not an unfair nor mismatched fight as near as I can tell at this stage (as opposed to a possible WalMart comparison). Who knows... Floetkoetter's (sp?) bakery and Cafe Utza may become greater than they set out to be in the end due to a properly matched featherweight bout of competition?

Levi's right about Valley Drive East, it was the interstate system that channeled the business away from them, not the Walmart effect that came later. I do believe that Walmart has had a somewhat negative effect on some of the downtown area businesses clothing stores and Ben Franklin. That said, Walmart does seem to bring in shoppers from surrounding towns and counties, so perhaps its something of a trade-off in some respects. The decrease in population in eastern Montana and the ease with which we all seem to go to Billings certainly hasn't helped main street either.

Makes you wonder what things would look like if the Baker interchange had continued to develop, rather than the Broadus interchange? Remember the Flying J and the Highway 12 Furniture Store?

I remember Husky before Flying J when I was a kid. It seems like most women back then were scared to go to Husky. I don't know why but I'm pretty sure I never set foot in the place cause my Mom wouldn't go there. She did go to Flying J though. It still seems like a lot better place to stop for a truck to me. Not sure why they went broke out there when there was so much more room. I suppose the truckers want to be close to the restaurants and such.

When my children were small we would always stop and eat at the Flying J resturant when we came back into town from getting our Christmas tree in the Pines Hills. It was probably the only time we ever ate there during the year.

Its kind of too bad that Fort Keogh owns all that land around the west interchange, as that probably would have been the best one to develop to channel traffic into the downtown area.

Its kind of too bad that Fort Keogh owns all that land around the west interchange, as that probably would have been the best one to develop to channel traffic into the downtown area.

The soils in that area are unsuitable for building much of anything. Not that the limitations of soil would stop an engineer from trying.

From what I've been told about the Flying J, it did not go broke. The home corporation decided to reduce the number of them so they would not be in competition with each other. Could be wrong but that was the rummer going round when it closed.

The soils in that area are unsuitable for building much of anything. Not that the limitations of soil would stop an engineer from trying.

In my hometown there was one lonely field in a sea of houses. I asked my mom why they didn't have houses there (there really were houses or stores on every piece of land) and she said there was water really close to the top, so they couldn't build. Whatta ya know, 2 years later, they found a way to build on it. I don't know how long it will be till they sink in.

IMO, I don't think that Walmart was the main reason that so many stores closed. As someone mentioned before, many of the clothing stores and downtown Miles City were closed and abandoned or on their way to closing before Walmart. People stopped shopping locally... Being on the interstate, it's easy for us to jump in the car and drive to Billings...where you can buy from a larger selection at a lesser price. It sounded great, why not just drive to Billings, go to Costco, the mall, Old Navy, Home Depot, get good Chinese food and drive home...a good day in Billings eh??? Now, look at Miles City.

I just went through Livingston this week, what a cute little town with a booming downtown area. I saw many many cute little shops and stores, clothing stores, home furnishing stores, eateries... Their population has to be around the same as Miles Cities, why can't we have those same little shops????? Because people there buy locally, they don't have a convenient interstate to jump on and head to shoppers haven...

The great thing about Flying J/Husky was that they'd sell porn to freshmen.

The great thing about the Shortstop was that they'd sell porn to juniors.

And then they invented the internet, which will GIVE porn to ANYONE.

spacekace wrote:

I just went through Livingston this week, what a cute little town with a booming downtown area.

Do you mean Lewistown?

I heard a rumor that the video store closed today, and then saw the sign next to Wendy's that announced it was to be the site of an Arby's. Apparent net gain of zero.

...sorry, definitely meant Lewistown!!!!!

Lets all blame wal-mart as its the easy thing to do rather than admit that nobody wanted to pay higher prices for goods sold by other stores to keep them in business. Wal-Mart did not cause any store to close, the consumers who chose Wal-Mart over the competition did.

Its amazing that a post about Flotkoetter opening a new shop can turn into so many things, wal-mart bashing, old-time reminiscing, actual kmart bashing and random gibberish. You gotta love miles city.

Personally, I would like to give Flotkoetter a virtual pat on the back. Its nice to see someone step up and get some building going in miles city.

Can't expect a town with very little in it to grow!

I'm very glad rick is building this. Why? Because he is injecting something main street has needed for a VERY LONG TIME, a GOOD lunch counter + amazing coffee + free Wifi. Yeah it is needed. Plus it is within walking distance of wherever you work on main, which is great for me. I could use some exercise haha.

Plus, Rick was the only businessman here in town that stepped up and talked to me about the camera, and actually was more that ambitious about installing it in his business! I'm glad the camera will be installed at MSG, instead of somewhere else.

Can anybody recall where Sleepermans Wharf was located. IT was in two different locations I think.

One of the locations was across the street from the Oliver/Minneapolis Moline tractor dealer, Anderson Ironworks, Regal Signs building. Not sure about the other location.

Can anyone tell me exactly what the bakery on main is going to be? Apparently there is going to be a deli counter? Are they going to sell bread as well? Can they make french bread with a crunchy crust? It's really disappointing to go to the grocery store and squeeze a loaf of french bread and not hear anything. I think I heard earlier no pastries, so what exactly are they going to sell? And is it going to be more focused towards bread/rolls/etc. or more of a lunch counter/sandwich shop that makes their own bread?

Can someone post pics of how the new building is coming on Main?

It is almost finished and it's great! Very 1910-ish feel, complete with architectural sign. Set back a bit from the sidewalk but very much in the style of classic Main. I touch not the camera (you can probably guess why) but I'm sure there will be photos in the Star soon for the Grand Opening due in a week or two.

The building is beautiful. Its nice to see it where that big gaping hole used to be! Can't wait to go to lunch there!

I am headed there today to install the MilesCam, and I'll snap a photo or 2 from my moto droid for you.

That is good news...

Does the chamber still do Business of the year? If so all who built or rebuilt should win hands down for investing back into Miles City.