Teen Pregnancy
Posted by Smiley (+853) 12 years ago
I have lived here in Miles City for two years. I have noticed many young mothers here. Why is it? Is the rate the same as other places? It seems a lot higher here.

I know about the Custer County Health Clinic and they do a lot with birth control, but what about in the school? Is it abstinence only education? I just think someone should do something about it.
I was 16 when I had my daughter, and I really wish I could give back to help prevent teen pregnancy.

So I'll ask, is there anything like that in town going on I can volunteer with? I'm not for the "Jelly on the Belly" campaign, sorry. But any other options?
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Posted by Toni Rentschler (+1511) 12 years ago
Coming form someone who got pregnant at 17, I must tell you at the time there wasn't a nice environment at the County Heath. If you are wanting to do something, just tell your story.
I would never give up my kids, I have worked hard to have them. I have worked hard for what I have. And really I have alot at 24, tow, and another kid on the way! I own my mobile home, working a great job. A job that required a little schooling too. At a place that does its best for the people that do work there.
So just remember, your sistuation my not be what others have came to see in their sistuations. Just a quick thought there.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago

I'm not for the "Jelly on the Belly" campaign


The WHAT?

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (12/14/2009)]
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
is this what you are referring to??

http://www.jellyonthebelly.com/
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1910) 12 years ago
I remember the "good old days" when if some poor teenage girl became pregnant, she "went to visit her aunt" in some other state for awhile.
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Posted by Crash (+127) 12 years ago
Okay not to slam Toni, however, let's be realistic here. I'm not saying this is her situation, let's assume she is the exception. The majority of mothers (at least the ones I have seen in eastern Montana)who had their first baby at 17 and will have had their third baby by the time they are 24 (even if they are working) are not living with the children's fathers, are on food stamps, and medicaid is not only paying for their children's health care; medicaid paid the hospital and doctor bill when the children were born. What a crock. What is wrong with this picture? Educating young girls is not enough, SOCIETY needs to be re-educated. Unwed pregnancy is now the social norm. It's pathetic. I bet the majority of babies born in the Miles City Hospital are born to unwed mothers. Someone please prove me wrong.
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Posted by Toni Rentschler (+1511) 12 years ago
Your are right, I have paid for my children to be be born.I had three health insurences when I had my first. And now on my third, I still have one very good one.
And I am not with my kids father. That would really be none bisness. I have paid all my bills, I have clear credit and I have a very nice fall back credit card, that I have NEVER missed a paymnet on.

All I can tell you is, if you think there is a problem in Miles City.. .Start at home. Yes it has been hard, but I would change my life for anything. And yes, I do plan on getting my daughter on something as soon and she needs it. But to stop a "horiable" situation, start where it isn't getting to the girls. At home. Do your little part, for your daughter, for your nice, for your fmaily. But I think if the rest of the girls are going to do it.... You really shouldn't owrry. They aren't your kids, or your grand kids.
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Posted by A.Voice (+69) 12 years ago
Hmmm... as a child of a teen mother who was born and raised in Miles City, i would have to say its a complete lack of responsibility on the part of parents, and teachers as well as the children involved in getting pregnant. In this community abstenince only education is the focus. For some reason people actually believe that if you talk about it then it will promote it more... But if thats so true then why are we not talking about it and soooo many young girls are still getting pregnant.
Its not even just about this issue its about alot of others too. This community is almost stuck in the past when it comes to actually discussing the social problems we have here. Like the fact that we have the highest suicide rate in Montana here in Custer county and yet.....we just now started a small program in health class to discuss suicide. Its disheartning to live here, be raised here and now be back here working and want so much more for the young people who live here than to get pregnant,do drugs and worse commit suicide.
This is a community problem not just a problem for the families whose children get pregnant. Its a problem for the ones who see them pregnant and also for the ones who are angry that nothing is being done.Yes it starts at home, but alot of these young mothers have parents who are working, single parent homes or just feel so alone that they need or want someone to love them so much that they think having a child will be the solution. It also starts with teachers who for alot of these young children are their role modles and spend alot more time with them than there parents can sometimes.
Im not sure where this thread will go or if anything will really change. I mean im 24 now, my moms 41, and in that time when she was 16 and had my older sibling.... nothings changed in Miles City when it comes to the social problems we are facing here. We talk about it for awhile...then its almost like we dont want to talk about it anymore because then it means that we should have more responsibility which we should..... then it cycles back again with another teen pregnant or another who committed suicide. Nothing changing just this cycle over and over.
Until more people who have more of a pool in this community and you know who you are start actually thinking more about the future of Miles City and what these young people who will more than likely stay here will do for it,nothing will change until they step up and say its ok to talk about it and do something about it.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
In this community abstenince only education is the focus


It wasn't always that way... I was a junior when Dr. Rauh gave what had to be the most graphic sex-ed presentation ever delivered to the student body of CCDHS, complete with full color photos of HPV warts the size of my fist, and a definition of anal brachiation (I'm not sure if I spelled that right... wendy?). He finished the lecture by throwing condoms into the crowd.

Of course, when he delivered my daughter two years later, I didn't want to make a big deal about his lecture being an obvious failure.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Statistically, children raised without fathers are at huge risk for chemical dependency, dropping out, jail, etc. It is not a good idea even if one is not a teen.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Not very many people out there that are the products of abstinence and celibacy.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
I like this quote from Howdy's article:

"I don't think we'll be able to overcome this problem unless we restore the social norm of not having sex and not getting pregnant before marriage," said Peter Sprigg, senior fellow for policy studies at the Family Research Council.


Yes, please let's go back to the time of quickie marriages and "premature" babies. Ignorance is bliss right?
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3718) 12 years ago
LOL Bridgier. I also got to attend that speech by Dr. Rauh. I don't know if it changed anything but it was certainly memorable and I doubt he was ever asked back.

It's not abstinence only education at CCDHS is it? When I was there we got the rundown on the whole gamut of birth control methods from Mr. Veis, including a video on how to put a condom onto a carrot or something along those lines. Even then though, I don't think he was telling us much that we didn't already know. It's not usually so much the lack of education as it is the fact that teenagers are stupid if you ask me.

We also got lots of assemblies, speeches, watched the gory drivers ed videos about drunk driving and it didn't stop us. I can't comment personally about safe sex because I was forced into abstinence by the female population of the high school.

[This message has been edited by Levi Forman (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
I find it very interesting that, in my experience, some of the most vocal proponents of waiting to have sex until marriage are also those who believe that you should wait to get married until you've finished your education and established your career. I am wondering how this dichotomous viewpoint can be reconciled.

With the median marriage age reaching an all-time high in 2008 of 28 for men and 26 for women, do those who advocate abstinence really believe that people should wait until they are 26, 28, 30, etc. to have sex? Or do they believe that people should simply marry sooner?

Marrying early for the sake of having sex doesn't seem like the answer to me. Numerous news programs have examined this trend, especially in conjunction with the concept of "Purity Balls". It is quite common in these circles to meet a complete stranger and be married within two months. Is this really preferable to those who are in committed relationships, but not married, having sex? (I make the committed relationship distinction to point out that I am not addressing one-night stands in this discussion.)

With divorce rates sky-high, some argue that waiting to marry until the late 20s or early 30s is the answer, with increased maturity levels and economic stability resulting in lower divorce rates.

I don't know the answer. However, it seems to me that you cannot be in both camps. Either you do not believe in sex before marriage, and do not have a problem with young marriage, or sex before marriage is no big deal, and marriage can wait until careers are established, parties are ready, etc. I don't realistically see how you can have it both ways. Hmmmm.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Unless and until we get religion out of sex education, we will never solve this problem...Hormones trump any belief system most of the time IMO, at least in teenagers...
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Hormones trump any belief system most of the time IMO, at least in teenagers...


Or, in Tiger Woods.
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Posted by Christen LeBlanc Ramsey (+277) 12 years ago
this is an interesting post smiley- like a.voice, i too am the product of careless teen sex, born and raised in miles city. my mother had her fourth child by 24, my current age, and is still married to our father. we were very lucky to have had the family home available to house our young and large family, as money was very tight. without the generosity of my grandparents, the situation could have been far worse. as a result of my childhood, i am married without children. i feel i spent a large part of my youth holding babies and caring for children- i am now entitled to my freedom.

interestingly enough, all my mother said in regards to sex was don't. i became the sex-ed teacher for my sisters and some of their friends with questions. to date, the youngest sister is 18, and none of us have children.
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Posted by Ashley Earley (+379) 12 years ago
"The majority of mothers (at least the ones I have seen in eastern Montana)who had their first baby at 17 and will have had their third baby by the time they are 24 (even if they are working) are not living with the children's fathers, are on food stamps, and medicaid is not only paying for their children's health care; medicaid paid the hospital and doctor bill when the children were born."

hmm...I had my first when I was 17, second when I was 20, and at 22 am about to have my third. I am married to the 22-year-old father of the last two, and in a very stable and happy relationship. He is a Marine reservist, works as a correctional officer, and does odd jobs around town to provide very well for his family, and still makes plenty of time for his family. I am not currently working but I have always had a job since I was 15. Both of us are going back to college in the spring. We have never used food stamps, WIC, etc and we have our own insurance.

As far as my parents go...they are still together and have always been involved in my life. My father is the calculus and history teacher where I grew up so I went to school with him every day. My mom was always home from work by 4 and spent evenings dedicated to us kids.

So obviously I proved that teen pregnancy has nothing to do with neglect or having single parents, yada yada. I'm so sick of being considered a statistic and hearing all this talk about teenagers ruining their lives and not taking care of their babies, blah blah blah. A lot of us actually do pretty well for ourselves. And as far not being married to the fathers, get after the fathers for that one. Most of those fathers I'm sure abandoned their kids. I can't see any girl wanting to raise their kids on their own but sometimes they don't have a choice and all they can do is try their best with the help of the government. Atleast they are f***ing trying, right?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
You are an anecdote, not a statistic. Congratulations on beating the odds.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1910) 12 years ago
On mc.com, as in most places, anecdotes seem to trump statistics.
There is also a big difference between stating 'a woman having a child out of wedlock at age 17 is doomed to be a failed parent, drug addict,etc' verses saying that same person is more likely to end up that way.
I graduated from CCHS in the middle 70s and I can't seem to recall ANY sex education. Maybe I missed that day in gym class or something.

Later on, after I had kids(somehow), I remember talking to a fellow parent whose main reason for sending their kid to Sacred Heart vs CCHS was to avoid the evil sex education talk with Dr. Stickney. The lady made it sound like a live sex show.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
Can I make an argument for bringing back good old fashioned shame? Along with talking and teaching about birth control, parents can make a strong statement by making it clear that certain behavior is not acceptable. My mother was 15 years old when she gave me up for adoption and I thank my lucky stars every day. If she had become pregnant today it is very likely that she would have kept me because it is now more socially acceptable. She has done pretty well for herself but I think that if she hadn't made the decision she did both of our lives would be very different indeed.

Anecdotes about successful teen-aged mothers abound but they are the exception. You can scoff at statistics all you want but that doesn't make them untrue.


P.S.
and a definition of anal brachiation (I'm not sure if I spelled that right... wendy?).


Bridgier, I don't think I want to know how to spell that correctly.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
I'd rather teach my children to be responsible and accountible ahead of time than to shame them after the fact. Making kids afraid to talk to you isn't going to help anything.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
I guess I don't mean shame from the family. I'm talking more about societal shame. Maybe shame is the wrong word. Perhaps I mean expectations. I think it's very important that children feel able to talk to their parents about sex, drugs, alcohol, Republicanism, etc. . . I can set the expectation that my child shouldn't drink alcohol until she is an adult and still encourage her to let us know if she is being pressured by friends to imbibe or finds herself at a party where alcohol is present. Parents can and should do both.

My biological mom gave me up. She did so for many reasons, the embarrassment to her family being one. I am very grateful. If embarrassment pushes another 15 year old girl to consider adoption I'm all for it.
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17663) 12 years ago
So, my question to all these teenage and former teenage mothers who post here, is: "Is getting pregnant and having a kid when you were a teenager something you planned on doing?"

From reading these posts, it kind of sounds like it was. Which means these teen mothers and I are about as far apart in our ways of thinking as, say, Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Can I make an argument for bringing back good old fashioned shame?


Using shame (societal or otherwise) as a motivator is a bad tool to avoid teen pregnancy. You may as well start giving girls a coathanger for their 15th birthday. Don't forget to put a little pink bow on it.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Extra Vowel wrote:
Using shame (societal or otherwise) as a motivator is a bad tool to avoid teen pregnancy. You may as well start giving girls a coathanger for their 15th birthday. Don't forget to put a little pink bow on it.

Word.
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Posted by Cynthia A. (+190) 12 years ago
teaching your children to think about their actions and the consequences of their actions helps to prepare them in some sense. Are they ready to deal with the consequences of their actions? Work full time to support a baby...do you want to deal with the person you are having sex with for the rest of your life? In some way, shape or form, if there is a pregancy, they WILL be in your life one way or another. For boys, can you deal with the fact that the girl may decide to get an abortion when you are against it? Can you deal with paying child support while trying to finish school and get yourself through college? Do you know how much it takes to raise a baby day by day, week by week? Do you like sleeping in or sleeping all night?

Educate your kids. Let them make informed decisions. Teach them to talk with those they are in relationships with, what girls think and guys think is TOTALLY different...girls think that when they feel they will be together for a long time, it's forever, or at least through high school ~ most guys see a long time as 3 or 4 months. If they are thinking of having sex, how would they deal with a pregnancy...if you teach them to talk these things through, they may decide a few minutes of pleasure isn't worth the risk.

Abstaining is the ONLY sure fire way to not get pregnant. I know married people who have gotten pregnant while using more then 1 method of prevention. If you are not ready for a child, don't have sex, plain and simple. Do you know of anyone besides the Virgin Mary who has gotten pregnant without intercourse (or a procedure to make them so?)? Statistics on condom failure are high, as well as other methods. and, std's? Are they worth a few moments pleasure? You talk about religion and sex education, maybe one of the reasons "religion" says to save sex until mairrage is to save on heartache and sickness. Even in cases of unplanned pregnancies that have a couple getting married, the stress it puts on the mairrage to wonder "what if"...adds stress to an already stressful situation.

I wonder why people feel it is up to the schools to educate our children on something that should start at home? Education. Ourselves and our kids.
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
One component of a responsible sex-education curriculum would be "Alternatives to Penetrative Intercourse, or, Dental Dams and You".

And that's when the freakout begins.

[This message has been edited by Bridgier (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17663) 12 years ago
While they may not have the 100% track record of abstinence, I still think some of the more easily implementable methods of "rubbers" and "pulling out" work pretty darn good. At least in the 90th percentile.
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Why is waiting until marriage and after being educated considered impossible?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
It's not impossible... it's just unrealistic.

And I'm glad to see that Gunnar has brought us back to "Jelly On The Belly". The sex-ed I received at Sacred Heart could be best described as "Don't Waste The Paste"

Kids remember stuff that rhymes.
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Why is it unrealistic (assuming one has values and character)?
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
I've been reading the posts and have wanted to write but it's hard.......
My first boyfriend, first love (he was 17), always said "trust me." At age 16, I was pregnant; his parents sent him away. (Before age 21, he died in an alcohol-related accident.) My parents moved us out of state (in shame). I had triplets, two girls, one boy; I lost one girl. Horrible pregnancy, almost died myself. My parents had told our new neighbors I was married but separated. Immediately following the birth, we moved again. This time they told the new neighbors that the babies were theirs. I lived so many secrets but had too, to keep the family from feeling shamed. I grew up feeling worthless, living in guilt for what I did to my family. I married the first man they let me out of the house with. I realize my parents were trying to protect me but I also know they were embarrassed. That was 33 years ago. My husband and I raised my children together. I have idolized him since day one for not looking at me in shame. I am thankful my parents were there to help me that I was not alone, but for about 25 years, the memories were difficult.

I've served my years of shame. Thanks for letting me get this off my mind, if for a little while. Tori

[This message has been edited by Tori (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
All right, all right. Mea culpa. Get me a poking stick. I shouldn't have used the word shame. But I think that kids should realize that their actions have consequences for their whole family.

Using shame (societal or otherwise) as a motivator is a bad tool to avoid teen pregnancy. You may as well start giving girls a coathanger for their 15th birthday. Don't forget to put a little pink bow on it.


I'm a staunch supporter of abortion rights. Don't throw this crap at me.
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
Wendy, I didn't even read your post of shame.
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
I mentioned adoption and that was a dirty word in our house. I'm happy for you, Wendy that things turned out!!!!!!
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Posted by Dorothy (+54) 12 years ago
Why is it unrealistic (assuming one has values and character)?

Please define values and character. I am just dying to see what you have to say.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Polar Bear, as I stated prior, with the median age of marriage being 28 and 26, are you honestly stating that for people with "values and character", it is realistic to wait until marriage? That seems preposterous to me. Regardless of "values and character", a person willing to wait until their late 20s or early 30s would be the exception, not the rule.
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Posted by Toni Rentschler (+1511) 12 years ago
Gunnar Emilsson, you asked if any of these girls had planed this... I think that is something that NO ONE woudl ever plan. ANd to tell you the truth, if someone girl had done this, I think there should be something else looked at other then the crapy sex-ed at school!

Ashley Early, I must say WAY TO GO! Both of my parents are still married. My father was in the Army Reserves while I was little, has a great carrer. My mother works hard at the hospital! So I agree, to say teen mothers come from the pits of hell is just rude! I agree, just start at home if you think the world is falling aprt do to teen monthers!
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
While life for unwed moms has been a very very rough way to go for many girls in the past, in todays age, if your teen daughter is sexually active, I would advocate the "three month shot" as a way to go for parents and their daughters...It is only given once every three months and the fear of pregnancy is gone for the most part...That would be far better IMO than the alternative...However, my bottom line is deepest sympathy to any young woman going thru this as a teen...The emotional roller coaster would be devastating and many face it without a shred of emotional support...
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
Thank you Howdy
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
You're welcome Tori, and giant hugs to you!!
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
Right back at ya and Merry Christmas!!!!!!!!!
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Thanks, and may your New Year be filled with much good health and success!!
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Polar Bear, as I stated prior, with the median age of marriage being 28 and 26, are you honestly stating that for people with "values and character", it is realistic to wait until marriage? That seems preposterous to me. Regardless of "values and character", a person willing to wait until their late 20s or early 30s would be the exception, not the rule.


It's all about how committed you are to the "values and character".
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
and how committed were you Richard??...Were you and your wife virgins when you were married and are you honest (moral) enough to admit it, if one of you was not??
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Were you and your wife virgins when you were married


For what it is worth, yes we were. Both my wife and I were 28 when we got married.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
Tori, I wasn't replying directly to your post. (I'm afraid I hadn't even read it.) Sorry for the confusion. Sounds like you went through hell. I'm glad you have not let it control your destiny. Best of luck to you.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Good for you Richard. That's wonderful. But as I said, you would be the exception, not the rule.

I seriously have not found any men who would admit to being interested in waiting until the age of 28 to have sex, and I know some pretty wonderful, moral people. (I use men specifically because men tend to be more honest when answering this question; women tend to feel more ashamed to admit their interest in sex before marriage). It is simply not realistic. As pointed out prior, examples to the contrary are anecdotal, not statistical.
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Well, if Richard is the exception, I sure hang out with a LOT of exceptions.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Polar, you hang out with a lot of 28+ year old virgins?

Hmmmmmm.
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
Thanks Wendy, that was nice of you to take the time to reply! Tori
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1910) 12 years ago
Gunnar. You know what they call people use practice coitus interuptus as birth control?
Parents.
Or should I say pelicanus interuptus?
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Denise, ROFL!!! Richard, thanks for your honesty, if that is the case. I have to admit that I haven't met a lot of people that were 28 yr old virgins in my lifetime. I have been on this earth almost 65 years...The penalties for being promiscuous, in my day, were far more severe than now, societially speaking I mean, at least...

[This message has been edited by howdy (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11902) 12 years ago
I didn't want kids. I got married at 20. I used contraceptives and guess what? No kids. I was sensible and careful and it worked. I know, there are occasionally contraceptive failures and occasional "oops, I didn't read the directions" failures but if you are careful, odds are you will not become a parent unless you want to.

Problem is, lots of people don't read the directions (those inserts with the birth control pills are full of useful information, like antibiotics interfere with them. I know at least one girl who got pregnant in high school because she didn't know that. She does now.) or just plain get "carried away." Or use pregnancy as a way to escape another bad situation. There are girls who get pregnant on purpose for one reason or another.

I don't understand that. My mind is too practical to do something stupid like have unprotected sex. I really don't understand successive unplanned pregnancies but, again, obviously I am missing something there, too.

Oh, an I went to CCDHS in the 1970's. We got weird film about venereal disease that implied you got diseases by passing next to someone who had them. And the disease itself was shaded crosshatches on a fully clothed drawing so I wasn't clear if I was trying to avoid pelvic crosshatches or something more serious. That was it.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
The penalties for being promiscuous, in my day, were far more severe than now, societially speaking I mean, at least...


Howdy, I would say the penalties for getting caught were more severe, wouldn't you say? I think it is a notion that premarital sex was not going on prior to the "Free Love" generation. As I stated before, it is amazing how many quickie marriages and premature babies there used to be. Now, I think, people just don't attempt to hide their promiscuity.

It reminds me of a woman I used to know years ago. She went on and on about a Dateline program she had seen about teenage sex. She was completely disgusted and said that she was so glad that her daughters were not "like that" (which was my first laugh). At the time, I didn't give it much thought because I did not know her well. As time went on, I found out that she had become pregnant at 15, quickly married to disguise it, and dropped out of high school. Over 35 years later, she had completely forgotten these pesky little details in her race to chastise "kids these days".

Reminds me of Mrs. Barone on Everybody Loves Raymond. What a scandal!

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (12/15/2009)]
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
I agree with you Denise that promiscuity was just as prevalent then as now but handled differently...As I said earlier in this thread, hormones always seem to trump any belief system at least in most cases...The girls IMO shouldn't be made to feel ashamed but rather supported in their crisis, as they have a hard row to hoe and need emotional support and not judgemental people around them...It is amazing how many older people now claim to being "pure" till marriage but when questioned closely it comes out that they really weren't as depicted in the Everybody Loves Raymond episode tonite on TV..Hypocrites abound unfortunately...
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Trivia question: How old was Mary (God's baby-mama) alleged to be when she found herself in a family way?
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Posted by Smiley (+853) 12 years ago
Thank you all for your posts. I am still with the baby's father too. We have been married for 2 years. I love him and I love my daughter. I think I will take Toni's suggestion and tell my story. Not on here obviously, but somewhere where "careless" teens will hear it. I'm not much of a role model, but working part time, taking 21 credits (and passing), and raising my family is pretty hard work. I really hope our day and age will shift a little. I don't plan on having 3 kids at 24, maybe 2 kids. I have one 2 year old who is enough to make you too tired to think about another one. Maybe I'll just let some teens borrow her for a day. Not really, I rarely trust anyone with her.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Good for you Richard. That's wonderful. But as I said, you would be the exception, not the rule.


I agree that I am the exception, probably even in my own family.

And I agree with you that it is probably not realistic to believe that people will wait for sex until they marry in their late 20's. Last year, I attended a LCMS church conference last and ask that very question of some well-know people (one with a radio show) in our denomination; the non-answer was enlightening.

The hope I have for my boys (great thing about raising only boys is there is only one penis to keep track of ) is that they will get married much sooner than did I. If I had my way everyone would work for 3-5 years out of HS, get married, and then go to college. They would get a better education, because they have some real world work experience and could spend more time studying rather than chasing skirts.

But then again, I am a fuddy-duddy exception.

[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr (12/16/2009)]
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Posted by KHL (+18) 12 years ago
Bridigier and Levi, Rauh wasn't invited back... He was sent to the Jr. High, we got those lectures and the slide show as 7th graders...
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Posted by Gunnar Emilsson (+17663) 12 years ago
"Heh...heh heh...."

"heh...howdy said 'they have a hard row to hoe'...heh...heh heh"
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
Yes, well, if I remember correctly... there were several seventh-graders who needed to see it.

Anyways - I had my second child at 22, my vasectomy at 23 and should have all the children out of the house by the time I'm 40. Would I do it differently? No, because I'm happy with were I'm at. Would I recommend it as a plan for others? Probably not.
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Posted by Christen LeBlanc Ramsey (+277) 12 years ago
If I had my way everyone would work for 3-5 years out of HS, get married, and then go to college. They would get a better education, because they have some real world work experience and could spend more time studying rather than chasing skirts.


wow richard, you know my life story (seriously!)

my experience with teen pregnancy (my mothers) was: "well this really sucked for the last 18 years... lets not do it again." as she took full advantage of the babysitters born to her previously.

smiley, your bit about giving your child to teens to make them think about the repercussions of sex would be very effective! i am to this day so, so happy to hand the baby back to its mom.
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Posted by Christen LeBlanc Ramsey (+277) 12 years ago
also, i should add. i wasn't a virgin when i got married. i have been having intercourse with the use of birth control pills, shots, patches, rings and finally an iud, for many years.

my #1 rule to young ladies is to never tell a fella you are on the pill, he uses it as an excuse to fore-go the use of a condom, which in my book is an absolute must- no matter what you are also taking to avoid pregnancy.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
also a condom might help with exposure to STD's, something to not take lightly in todays age of life threatening STD's...Cheating on your partner anymore, actually can be a death sentence for some with the horrid STD's out there...
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Posted by eeyoor (+54) 12 years ago
I find it funny that everyone picks at the girl here but what about teaching the boys to use condoms and pay for there actions they are the ones that just walk or run away when they get girls pregnant, teach your sons to be more responsible for their actions and stand by their mistakes.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
agree with you that both should be responsible but everyone should take personal responsibility for themselves to protect against diseases IMO..."never leave it up to your partner but take it upon yourself to protect yourself"...Words to literally LIVE by...
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
I was just reading an article somewhere or another about the return of the IUD as a birth control option in the US. Apparently, they're very popular in developing countries.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
The nice thing about the IUD is that a woman can use it without her partner knowing it. This may be advantageous in countries where condom use is considered unmanly. A wife can get an IUD and there is no evidence of it at home. I guess it's rather underhanded but in some countries a married woman has little control over her sexual life.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Not to be confused with IED's.
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Posted by howdy (+4949) 12 years ago
Or DUI's

Does the IUD I had when I got the DUI, aggravate my OCD?

[This message has been edited by howdy (12/16/2009)]
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3718) 12 years ago
OMG
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Posted by Rick Kuchynka (+4457) 12 years ago
This thread is one of mc.com's finest trainwreck classics.

Jelly on the belly. Heh. How did I never put that together? Shows how far I've fallen off my game.

As for the infamous Dr Rauh's first last lecture, the upside is, if it weren't for that I never would've figured out why Louise never needed that second invitation.

But the whole 'I've seen lots of pregnant girls, so Miles City has an abstinence-only education problem' followed by 'don't tell me your story, you're just an anecdote who beat the odds' leads me to think some people are a little desperate to lay blame.

Especially since nobody seems to have any idea whether abstinence-only is even the way it's done here. If that's the case, it's certainly a break from the (not-so-distant-but-farther-back-than-I-like-to-admit ) past.

To me, the whole education thing is a copout. No number of Mr Mackey mmmkay's is going to make the hormonally challenged rethink their lives.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Speaking of Rick's not-so-distant-but-further-back-than-he-likes-to-admit past:

It's easy for him to look down his nose at the "hormonally challenged." Becoming a teen father wasn't something Rick ever needed to worry about.

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (12/17/2009)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Rick: try again... in english.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
English? Nah ... I'll settle for sober.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
With two of the six going out for high school basketball pregnant, and one of those two pregnant for the second time, perhaps Rosebud's program would be an appropriate case study. Anyone know what Rosebud's sex education program consists of?
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Posted by Bridgier (+9297) 12 years ago
It's been my observation that once a town is small enough, the teenage female population will settle into one of two states: extreme prudery, or extreme promiscuity. The male population will simply travel to the closest outlying town that's chosen promiscuity.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Denise - methinks we shouldn't view this as a bad thing. Seriously, how else is Rosebud going to prevent itself from drying up completely and blowing away?

Rosebud is one "moral crisis" away from non-existence.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Maybe "Star" knew/knows more than we give her credit for...
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Posted by Patricia (+67) 12 years ago
What you all fail to realize is that teen mothers get attention (positive and negative) at school and in their workplace.

For a couple of years now, we haven't had that many (or no) teen pregnancies at the high school and now all of a sudden there are at least 6 or 7 seniors pregnant (or the fathers of babies). Sad.

I don't think in any of the cases adoption is even an alternative. Double sad. I know that twelve or so years ago, two of my former students gave up their children for adoption.

As far as sex ed at the high school goes: They teach it in health classes AND in child development (Mrs. Carda has girls and boys take home a BABY THINK IT OVER -a life like doll who cries, pees, etc). Maybe there should also be sex ed at the middle school?
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
A girl went to an ophthalmologist for an eye examination. After he had completed his' tests, the doctor said, "You do need glasses. Be sure to come back after your wedding."

"Why can't I have them now?" the girl asked.

"Because, Miss," said the doctor sternly, "I don't believe in specs before marriage."
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Posted by ss (+25) 12 years ago
Having attended CCDHS myself not long ago, I can tell you that NO there is no sex education or prevention or anything of the sort. I did't even know birth control was available at the Public health clinic til I was a senior!!
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
In the 70's we got pretty frank and open birth control information in our "Family Living Class" which was a co-ed class from the Home Ec. department at CCHS. Mrs. Steiner did a very good job explaining the emotional side effects of premarital sex, in addition to physical risks. She said some things that I have never forgotten like, "When you have sex, you are giving a piece of your soul to that person. You need to be choosy about who and when you want to have a piece of your soul. Give it to many and you have no soul left for yourself". I think that is one of the truest things she could have said to us.
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Posted by ABE (+414) 12 years ago
This whole thing is funny. Reminds me of high school. We had just been told that the juniors and seniors had to take a sex ed class, and one family in town "a bunch of bible thumpers" through an epic bitch fit. They threatend to get lawyers, and this and that, they proclaimed that the entire town was going to hell. Their daughter, who was in my class was exempt from going to sex ed in the end of the battle. She was also the first one to get pregnant!
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
My kids aren't going to have to worry about being taught sex ed in high school. Why?

BECAUSE I WILL HAVE ALREADY TALKED* TO THEM ABOUT IT.

Novel idea, actually being an attentive parent, I know.

* And by "talked," I mean having respectful two-way, open communcation with my kids that's not based on fear or thou shalts or any of that useless crap.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Excellent idea Brian! Unless, of course, the school is derailing your communication with the whole "premarital sex will create a soulless demon" train of thought.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
I don't think in any of the cases adoption is even an alternative. Double sad. I know that twelve or so years ago, two of my former students gave up their children for adoption.


Why in the world would adoption not be an option? Is there still a stigma? I thought we'd grown up a little.
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Posted by Smiley (+853) 12 years ago
Wendy, I think adoption is great chance for parents who really want a child and can support it and give it the love it needs. Adoption sometimes turns out bad ( I know one case, and I think we all have read that post.) but it is defintely something that is great.
No one ever speaks of abortion though. That is still very taboo...
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3718) 12 years ago
Patricia wrote:
As far as sex ed at the high school goes: They teach it in health classes AND in child development (Mrs. Carda has girls and boys take home a BABY THINK IT OVER -a life like doll who cries, pees, etc). Maybe there should also be sex ed at the middle school?


ss wrote:
Having attended CCDHS myself not long ago, I can tell you that NO there is no sex education or prevention or anything of the sort. I did't even know birth control was available at the Public health clinic til I was a senior!!


So which is it? SS you didn't take health class? I do remember a couple kids "opted out" or their parents did for sex ed week in high school, but it was certainly available when I was there.

As I said before though, how many teen moms didn't know how babies were made or that condoms and birth control pills were available to prevent it? Not many would be my guess. Is education really the issue?
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Denise wrote:
Excellent idea Brian! Unless, of course, the school is derailing your communication with the whole "premarital sex will create a soulless demon" train of thought.

I'd hope the school(s) my children attend would leave the business of their souls alone.

(shuddering at the thought of my kids going to Billings Central)
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Or, apparently, CCDHS in the 70's.
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Posted by Gail Finch Shipek (+88) 12 years ago
Just amazed. Over 90 posts and no one mentions Hollywood/the movies? How can we expect our children to think it is unadvisable to have sex before commitment/marriage when they watch what we watch? I am guilty too. My daughters saw Shakespeare in Love at the ages of 12 and 9. Why do we wonder?

Luckily, my 20 year old has decided she will wait a long time for kids after she marries. Why? Her little 6 pound puppy! She is learning what responsibility is for another living being and finding out it has its inconveniences.
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
In answering Levi's question, I would have to say that I do not believe that education is the primary issue. While a comprehensive education program is important, one that includes all aspects of sex education and HIV (and other STD and pregnancy) prevention education to assist young people to make healthy decisions about sex and to adopt healthy sexual behaviors, the primary obligation to steer children down the safest path rests firmly with the parents.

It is the lack of responsible parenting that is the biggest contributing factor to the unsafe sex practices being used by many teenagers and young adults. As has been stated prior, there are ALWAYS exceptions, but those are purely anecdotal. Statistically speaking, the groups engaged in the most risky sexual behaviors are those that come from broken homes, or those that, although from two-parent homes, have parents who do not take an active interest/role in their children's lives. Again, I understand that there are exceptions.

I am fully aware that what I am about to say will anger many, and I'm sure many more will disagree, and I will take criticisms with a light heart, but it is my opinion that a lot of this blame lies at the feet of men/fathers. It has been proven time and time again that daughters who have fathers who are active and involved in their lives make smarter choices throughout life, especially in regard to whether or not to become sexually active and to use safe sex practices. It has also been proven that daughters who do not have involved fathers are more likely to look for replacement for that missing male affection from any source willing to provide it. This does not make for a winning combination.

You have girls (cue the music) looking for love in all the wrong places, and boys who are more than willing to take advantage of that void. When a pregnancy does result, as mentioned in this thread, unlike in years past, it is more common for the boy/man to hit the road than to stick around to raise the child. Why is that? What has changed in men's moral composition that they are no longer interested in being responsible for their obligations? I could make you a list of names of men who have fathered multiple children with multiple women, and they keep moving on down the road, most not providing any means of child support to the first on the list, let alone number five down the line. There are also plenty of men, unlike decades past, who are more than happy to sit at home playing PlayStation, XBox, smoking a joint and drinking with pals, than work a consistent job (or job at all), while the girlfriend/wife works multiple jobs just to make ends meet. Where is the pride, the motivation, the character?

Richard mentioned the idea of graduating from high school, working for experience, and then marrying young and going to college. While in theory that may be a wonderful idea (although I am sure many would argue it is an antiquated notion), it simply would not work because most men are no longer interested in settling down at the age of 21 or 22, and many are never interested. They are more than happy to play house until something better turns up.

Bottom line, we have too many girls being raised without positive male role models, and when they in turn look to fill the void, too many find men of their fathers' molds, making bad decisions in the process and creating a never-ending cycle, with more babies raised without positive male role models.

For those of you who stuck with me throughout my diatribe, thank you.

And for those looking for your pitchforks and torches, who think that I am a heartless man-basher, please know that I am married to a wonderful man, who obviously had no issues about committing to marriage at a young age, and who is the most fantastic role model for which a child could ask. We will see how than pans out for our children.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
This just in: premarital sex did not exist prior to moving pictures.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr (+15076) 12 years ago
Denise: Very well stated.
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Posted by Tori (+202) 12 years ago
Well said, Denise!!!!!!!!
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Posted by Crash (+127) 12 years ago
Denise hit the nail on the head. Man up, men!
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Excellent, post Denise. I got one of the few good ones and my adult sons turned out well as a result of a good role model in their father.
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Posted by Dorothy (+54) 12 years ago
Polar Bear said: "Excellent, post Denise. I got one of the few good ones and my adult sons turned out well as a result of a good role model in their father."

Certainly you don't mean to imply that there are only a few good men in the world? What a pompous and self-serving thing to say. There are many many fine men in the world, and I don't think you are one of the only ones to "find" one.

You always seem to want to "elevate" yourself in your posts, as if you are somehow better than others.

What has led you to believe that you got one of the "few good ones"?

Are you saying that sons that do not have fathers are not going to turn out well? Or that sons that have less than desirable male role models or fathers are not going to turn out well?
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Posted by Christen LeBlanc Ramsey (+277) 12 years ago
denise, wonderful post, really well stated! i realized early on that i am all i've got -no man or woman- is able to complete the person i want to be. (this is a truth, i feel, for everyone!) my parents did the best job they could under the circumstances they placed themselves in, i aspire to do better for myself.
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Posted by Ashley Earley (+379) 12 years ago
Geez, I read polar bear's post and thought "good for him for being a good role model and raising a great man." Correct me if I"m wrong polar bear, but I believe he was just saying there are good fathers out there and he is proud that he is one of them. Way to look for the negative in everything, Dorothy.
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Posted by Crash (+127) 12 years ago
Are you saying that sons that do not have fathers are not going to turn out well? Or that sons that have less than desirable male role models or fathers are not going to turn out well?


I cannot speak for Polar Bear, but my opinion, Dorothy, is that sons (or daughters for that matter) who don't have fathers raising them or have less than desireable male role models raising them or making negative impacts on their lives are likely to struggle while growing up and becoming well-rounded adults.

Statistics prove that. There are exceptions to the rule and God bless those single mothers out there who are busting their butts doing the mommy and daddy job. Those are the mothers who SACRIFICE themselves for the sake of their children and aren't out barhopping and whoring around and continuing the livestyles that probably caused them to get knocked up in the first place. The kids who turn out well have mothers who make their children their number one priority.

And as for good men out there, I again agree with Polar Bear. I got a GREAT one. My friends have great ones, too. If you lay down with dogs you get fleas. Maybe we have great men today because we refused to lower ourselves just to keep company with just anybody. And if that makes me and my friends "better than everyone else" so be it.
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Posted by Wendy Wilson (+6171) 12 years ago
Great post, Denise.
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Are you saying that sons that do not have fathers are not going to turn out well? Or that sons that have less than desirable male role models or fathers are not going to turn out well?"

The above was Dorothy's question and the answer is that fathers have a huge impact in how their children turn out. If they aren't there the children are statistically MUCH more likely to drop out of school, use chemicals, end up in the justice system, have out of wedlock children at young ages and are much less likely to have stable marriages. Is it true for everyone? No---but statistically it is quite true for many.
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
Great ones are much, much harder to find than poor ones. The poor ones are a dime a dozen. To get a great one you have to be what they are looking for and the great ones tend to look for those who hold similar values and character.
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Posted by Patricia (+67) 12 years ago
Wendy: What I meant by my post about adoption was that it wasn't, in some cases, even thought of as an alternative to having the child and raising it as a single parent. Adoption, as far as I'm concerned, is a good alternative.
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Posted by Patricia (+67) 12 years ago
I am sorry "ss" that you missed out on those classes. Granted, Mr Veis is a little scary and as a woman I wouldn't want to take health from him either, but Mrs. Carda's Child Development class has been around for awhile.
Right now at CCDHS we have a female P.E. teacher who teaches girls about women's health issues and concerns. (P.E. is still an elective class at the high school, so many people don't or can't sign up for this class, because of time/scheduling constraints. Same goes for the Child Development class.)
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Didn't P.E. used to be mandatory for the first two or three years, or am I just hallucinating?

Edit to add: My husband says I am not hallucinating. P.E. was a required course for the first few years. Has that changed?

[This message has been edited by Denise Selk (12/20/2009)]
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Posted by polar bear (+515) 12 years ago
I am sure PE was required yearly, or almost as I was in PE a lot and I hated it. I never would have taken it as an elective.
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Posted by Patricia (+67) 12 years ago
Polar Bear and Denise you are both right: P.E. IS a required class for both Freshmen and Sophomores. Sorry!
But we digress ...

Teen pregnancy IS preventable, either through education in the schools or by the parents talking to their teens.

There is still a contingent who thinks that distributing condoms or making condoms available in the boys' bathrooms will lead to more sex.

There is also a statistic out there (or there used to be a statistic out there) that stated that most teen pregnancies happen between 3:00 pm and 5:00 pm. Any thoughts?
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Posted by Amorette Allison (+11902) 12 years ago
I was recently reading (in print, so no link available) that teenagers are actually missing a part of the prefrontal cortex that deals with decision-making and long range planning. It hasn't developed yet so they are literally incapable of long term planning. The brain cells just flat out aren't doing that yet.

Not every kid, mind you, and there is no set time line but the point is, the long term part of the brain isn't fully developed during the teen years. Which is why some teenagers have unprotected sex. They genuinely do not grasp what that will mean in the long term because they are not capable of thinking that way yet.

All the education and all the condoms can't over come a plain ol' inability to plan.

So, short of chastity belts for both sexes, what can be done? Did the kid who got pregnant as a teenager actually think "Wow, if I get pregnant, how what affect will this have on the next 20 years or so of my life" or did they think," My goodness, this is pleasant and it makes my significant other happy so let's do it because what happens tomorrow is beyond my grasp."

That's the first question that needs answering. Does the teenager having sex think of the future beyond the next five minutes?
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Posted by Denise Selk (+1664) 12 years ago
Five minutes Amorette? You're giving these boys too much credit! LOL.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3718) 12 years ago
There is still a contingent who thinks that distributing condoms or making condoms available in the boys' bathrooms will lead to more sex.


I don't know about sex, but I bet it would lead to more gigantic water balloons.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6114) 12 years ago
Denise wrote:
Five minutes Amorette? You're giving these boys too much credit! LOL.

Five minutes ... but 14 times a day. That's an hour and 10 minutes of good lovin'!
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