Mountain Lion Next Door
Posted by Nikki Logan (+285) 9 years ago
I currently live in the Moon Creek area and there is an individual out there that wants to keep a mountain lion in a cage. The FWP has put some regulations on it if this person is able to get it, but I would just like to say that I think that it is a TERRIBLE idea. It has been on the news and all or most of the residents out there have been notified of what the situation would be if the person is to get this lion. I personally think that there is enough predators out there without having a "pet" mountain lion. There are too many risks involved and I don't like it.
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Posted by MRH (+1274) 9 years ago
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Posted by RA (+643) 9 years ago
Nikki:

Just curious - have you contacted the local Fish, Wildlife, & Parks office and voiced your opinion there?
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Posted by Stephenie (+62) 9 years ago
Why would you keep a mountain lion in a cage? How many domestic cat owners house their kittys in cages? Its not a question if but when the mountain lion will escape and injure or kill someone.
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Posted by Nikki Logan (+285) 9 years ago
I have not contacted the fish and game. I wanted to put a line out there to see what people think before I went that far. Ialso agree with the other poster that says it is only a matter of time before it erscapes. There is already a possibility of mountain lions in the area and if you bring a caged lion into the area it will attract wild ones. I have a daughter and I want her to be able to play outside without me having to be out there with a rifle to protect her. We also have horses, dogs and cats and we would like to keep them. I have already lost my dog and I don't know if it was a lion or a trapper but both have crossed my mind.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 9 years ago
Its not a question if but when the mountain lion will escape and injure or kill someone.

That's right, because every mountain lion in the wild has killed at least 17 people. Look it up.

I agree that a mountain lions are wild animals and shouldn't be caged as "pets," but I also believe that the arguments against the domestication of mountain lions can be made without resorting to hyperbole and hysteria.
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Posted by Bridgier (+8037) 9 years ago
I would bet there's already wild ones there - but I'm not sure why having one in the area will attract more if there isn't. As I understand it, they're solitary, so if the animal in question is spayed/neutered, what would attract a wild cougar?
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+8622) 9 years ago
oops - wrong thread
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 9 years ago
When did Ashton Kutcher become a gelding?
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Posted by Nikki Logan (+285) 9 years ago
Ok I am not hysterical and I am not trying to create it. I have also seen evidence of wild animals being "domesticated" and things not turning out very well. Even if the animal was spayed or neutered they have scent glands, I believe, that would attract.
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Posted by Jamie and JoDean (+386) 9 years ago
What is the difference of having one in captivity, and having them running around in the wild? In captivity at least you can possibly control its actions, a wild animal you cant control what they do.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 9 years ago
Ok I am not hysterical and I am not trying to create it.

Yours wasn't the post that I quoted when I was referring to hysteria, Nikki.
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Posted by RA (+643) 9 years ago
Bridger:
I would bet there's already wild ones there - but I'm not sure why having one in the area will attract more if there isn't. As I understand it, they're solitary, so if the animal in question is spayed/neutered, what would attract a wild cougar?

Mountain lions, especially males are extremely territorial. Any different mountain lion (wild or captive) that appeared in an established territory will certainly bring in the lion that has claimed the territory.

I would strongly urge any individual in the area (all of Region 7) to make your comments known to FWP - don't just publish your comments on this forum, as FWP will only consider those comments that are received through the proper channels.

Those channels are not at all difficult to utilize - you may begin by telephoning the local FWP office, and asking the person that answers how you should go about making your comment.
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Posted by Bridgier (+8037) 9 years ago
Yes... but if it's an established territory, then the wild cat would already have been there - already terrorizing the neighborhood as it were.
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Posted by RA (+643) 9 years ago
Bridger:

And pray tell - what makes you think there is not one already established in the area?

In the Tongue River Road/Liscomb Mountain/Beaver Creek area 7, yes, I said 7 mountain lions have been harvested in the 2008 - 2009 hunting season. Tongue River Road and Liscomb Mountain are not that far (as the crow flies, or as the mountain lion travels) from Moon Creek area. The 2008 - 2009 hunting season is not the first season that multiple cats have been harvested.
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Posted by tjh (+136) 9 years ago
Nikki, you live on Moon Creek and are worried about a Mountain lion. Shouldn't you be focusing on what to do WHEN Moon creek burns up again????? You didn't worry about mountain lions when you were in town, but yet there has been one spoted near the fairgrounds not far from where you lived was it?
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 9 years ago
This is almost as ridiculous as the missing pythons.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 9 years ago
This reminds me of the Simpsons episode, "Much Apu About Nothing," when Springfield was so up in arms about a random bear sighting that they spent their entire budget on a "bear patrol" that included stealth bombers.

Homer: "I'm sick of these constant bear attacks! It's like a freakin' country bear jamboroo around here!"
Ned: "Well, now realistically, Homer, I've lived here some thirty-odd years; this is the first and only bear I've ever seen."
Homer: "Hey, if you want wild bears eatin' your children and scarin' away your salmon, that's your business. But I'm not gonna take it! Who's with me?"

"We're here! We're queer! We don't want any more bears mountain lions!"
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 9 years ago
When mountain lions are outlawed, only outlaws will have mountain lions.
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Posted by Bridgier (+8037) 9 years ago
RA - that's what I've been trying to say from the beginning. There's probably several in the area - not in a cage, roaming free, killing donkeys and God knows what else.

But now it's been brought to people's attention, and it's freakout time.

Even though they've probably been there the whole time.
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Posted by Buck Showalter (+4456) 9 years ago
I guess you'd invite a cold-blooded murderer to move in next door, Bridgier?
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Posted by Bridgier (+8037) 9 years ago
Yes. Yes I would.
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Posted by Levi Forman (+3707) 9 years ago
Keep your friends close and your mountain lions even closer I always say.
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Posted by Stephenie (+62) 9 years ago
I just can't see why you would want to cage a wild animal. Personally I would set it free and let it live or die the way it was intended to be.
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Posted by Stephenie (+62) 9 years ago
General Advice About Lion Encounters
The general advice to avoid being eaten by a mountain lion is to travel in groups. If you encounter a mountain lion by yourself or with your children, stop, make yourself look as big as possible, and pick up small children and put them on your shoulders to make you appear even larger. Aggressively defend your position. The idea is to deter their attack by making them think that it isn't going to be easy for them. Pick up a branch or a rock to help fight them if needed. They are just big kitty-cats, so you don't want to appear as smaller prey to them. In particular, running away makes them think you are prey, and will encourage an attack. Yell for help by screaming cougar! or something similarly specific rather than just help!.

Do not take your dog with you into the wilderness, if you want to reduce your chances of a cougar attack. According to Banff National Park Chief Warden Ian Syme, "Many people like to take a dog along in the wilderness because it gives them a sense of security. They feel they will be protected from cougars. But that's not the case. Dogs are an attractant in most cases."

However, you may not have to worry about taking action to prevent an attack, since mountain lions ordinarily either lie hidden, waiting for prey to approach beneath them, or approach unseen, and then attack and kill by a bite to the back of the neck that severs the spinal cord.
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Posted by Bob Netherton (+1888) 9 years ago
If you're out walking around in the wilderness, and you come across a great big cat box.......clear out!
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+8622) 9 years ago
>>Keep your friends close and your mountain lions even closer I always say.

I often say: the early lion gets the worm.
http://web.mac.com/arnold...orLion.png
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Posted by Ruth McCain (+6) 4 years ago
.. "look it up" where, Brian? Where did you get the ridiculous notion that every lion has killed at least 17 people?

Here's a quote for ya from the book "Mountain Lion" by Rebecca L. Grambo which documents their behavior in the wild: "Paul Beier, who made a landmark study of all documented mountain lion attacks on humans occurring in the United States and Canada from 1890 to 1990, noted that MORE PEOPLE DIE EACH YEAR FROM ATTACKS BY DOGS OR RATTLESNAKES THAN WERE KILLED OVER THAT HUNDRED-YEAR PERIOD BY MOUNTAIN LIONS." goes on to say "...the chance of being killed by a mountain lion is also far LESS than that of being struck by lightning .. "

Upon reading the comments posted in this forum, I am horrified to see how many are completely uninformed, are strictly opinion and not FACT. Mountain lions are generally shy, lazy, elusive and prefer that humans leave them alone. Incidentally, in sprinting, they're only good for about 100 yards before they slow down and stop running. Why? Because they have small lungs and tire easily.
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+13712) 4 years ago
Why are you attempting to provide comment on a discussion that occurred 5 years ago? By now the lion has probably been buried in the garden.
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Posted by David Schott (+12302) 4 years ago
Ruth McCain wrote:
"Brian? Where did you get the ridiculous notion that every lion has killed at least 17 people?"

Mountain lions may be swift, Ruth not so much.
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Posted by Cindy Stalcup (+581) 4 years ago
Lions have been hard on our guard dog and sheep populations.
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Posted by Diesel (+179) 4 years ago
I believe it is against Montana law to own big cats. They can only be owned by zoos etc. It might have changed but i don't think so.
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1912) 4 years ago
Deer populations are down in many places. This doesn't bode well for the sheep population.

I live in the north side of Helena. A young lion, resting on a neighbor's porch, was dispatched by the authorities about 2 years ago.

There must be plenty of them out there.
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Posted by cubby (+2247) 4 years ago
Well some people in MC own bobcats at their houses are they considered big cats?
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Posted by Tom Masa (+1640) 4 years ago
Here in ND they have a mountain lion season. They have 2 areas designated. One is western ND approximately the area of the Bakken and the second area is the rest of ND. So many are allowed to be taken in each area with more in western area. Usually the limits are filled in the western area early in the year. A school principal shot one in the school yard in one of the small towns last year in the west.
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Posted by NDJ (+140) 4 years ago
Everyone calm down.If this person does not have the cat declawed it will be Ok if it gets outdoors.You hear more about the trouble with the Bobcats in Bozeman than you do with the ones in Miles City.
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Posted by Carol H (+101) 4 years ago
At least 20 people in North America were killed by cougars between 1890 and 2011, including six in California. More than two-thirds of the Canadian fatalities occurred on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. Fatal cougar attacks are extremely rare and occur much less frequently than fatal dog attacks, fatal snake bites, fatal lightning strikes, or fatal bee stings.[citation needed] Children are particularly vulnerable. The majority of the child victims listed here were not accompanied by adults.

Not sure where you are getting the statistics of every mountain lion kills 17 people, but it is completely false.
Read for yourself the deaths that have been cause by mountain lions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_cougar_attacks_in_North_America
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Posted by Tom Masa (+1640) 4 years ago
How about the cougars in MC?

[This message has been edited by Tom Masa (1/26/2014)]
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+13712) 4 years ago
Carol H said:
Not sure where you are getting the statistics of every mountain lion kills 17 people, but it is completely false.
Read for yourself the deaths that have been cause by mountain lions.


No duh! The person who said that was being sarcastic... FIVE YEARS AGO!



[This message has been edited by Richard Bonine, Jr. (1/26/2014)]
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 4 years ago
Ruth and Carol - thank you for the chuckle. I had completely forgotten about this thread, as it has been five years (as noted by Richard) since I last thought of it. I was indeed being sarcastic, as evidenced by over-the-top tone and the rolling eyes smiley at the end of the comment.

As humans, I believe it is our Jeebus-given right and responsibility to kill every animal on the planet, including mountain lions. Appreciating a living creature's intrinsic value only leads to sin, anyway. KILL EVERYTHING!!!

(I may or may not have been ever-so-slightly facetious in this comment, too. Just so you know).

[This message has been edited by Brian A. Reed (1/26/2014)]
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Posted by Hal Neumann (+8622) 4 years ago
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Posted by Richard Bonine, Jr. (+13712) 4 years ago
Hal, that trophy is....purrrdy.
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Posted by Brian A. Reed (+6021) 4 years ago
I bet people wouldn't think the homicidal nature of mountain lions was so funny if they knew that three of my children were eaten by a mountain lion yesterday.

PumaPoc 2014 will be the end of us all!
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Posted by Bob Netherton II (+1912) 4 years ago
In recent years my family and I went to a cat show in Billings. It was so popular, the people queued to purchase tickets were backed up for a city block. It was known as the fee-line.


Sorry Richard.
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Posted by NDJ (+140) 4 years ago
Perhaps the scoundrel feline of fame from the "bloodbath and subsequent cat hunt of `27" has been reincarnated on the outskirts of Miles City Mt. If so,no good can come of this.6 deaths have been attributed to this nocturnal hunter before it was destroyed.This animal has been documented by Animal Planet and as the carcass was buried immediately after it`s destruction it has never been determined if the animal was rabid at the time of it`s death or not.Amorette may be able to pull a link up on this story.Read the gruesome terrifying story and I guarantee you will think twice about ever having any type of cat in your house again at night.This incident may be the footing for the modern origin and use of the phrase or term "DevilCat"
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Posted by LuAnn Rittenhouse (+34) 4 years ago
Okay, at the risk of having Richard or Brian or anyone else here make fun of me, I wish to chime in. Firstly, I do know the original post was from 2009, but I believe the mountain lion populations have been growing steadily every year, bringing the subject closer & closer to home (I mean literally, in some places), so while they may not be seen, you can pretty much bet they are out there...

We have them here in south-central Wisconsin, even tho the Dept. of Natural Resources (DNR) denied it for several years. One was spotted only about a mile from our place after killing a neighbor's cow - and we don't even live "out in the middle of nowhere" (as I lovingly refer to the Moon Creek area). (We also have an occasional black bear sighting here & I personally saw a wolverine on our property.) After neighbors reported animal maulings & killings, the DNR did acknowledge that a few mountain lions might be around, but a little while after that, the news came out that several years ago,the DNR had released at least one breeding pair into a wildlife refuge about 35 miles north of us, without telling the public... so they knew all along.

One year (I think maybe 2007) my husband wanted to bow hunt on my uncle & aunt's place near the North Unit of Teddy Roosevelt Park in western ND. They had witnessed a pair of cougars cross the road in front of them near their place, & another lady nearby watched one walk by her kitchen door out on the ranch, so we knew they were there. I called the state of ND to ask if my husband would be allowed to carry a handgun for safety against cougar attack, given these sightings, & was told "there are no mountain lions in that part of North Dakota." This was in Sept. & the following January, my family sent us a news clip that North Dakota had authorized a hunt with 5 licenses being sold & I believe all were filled in a very short time.

There will always be people trying to "tame" wild animals, even tho most of us are told when we're children that it can't be done - that you should never completely trust an animal that was once wild or has wild genes. There will always be people wanting to study the animals. There will always be parents who are concerned for the safety of their children with regards to any wild animals or those with wild genes that may wander into their neighborhood. And there will always be people who want one of everything hanging on their trophy wall. That's the world we live in. I think the most important thing is to treat animals with respect & caution.

Lastly, thanks so much Carol, for posting some actual statistics. :0)
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Posted by David Schott (+12302) 4 years ago
Oh dear, FWP killed a mountain lion that was prowling through a Missoula neighborhood. I believe they only resorted to this after the mountain lion was observed eating 17 children at a nearby elementary school.

Billings Gazette: FWP kills mountain lion in Missoula neighborhood

"MISSOULA — A juvenile mountain lion prowling the Brookside neighborhood in the mid-Rattlesnake was shot Thursday morning after residents saw it stalking deer children.

“We got a report yesterday and were able to respond immediately,” Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks spokeswoman Vivica Crowser said Friday. “(Wildlife specialist) Bob Wiesner’s dog got on the track and eventually treed it. It was a female juvenile lion, weighing about 50 pounds.”

Missoula County Public Schools officials issued a notice of the lion’s removal Friday morning. The notice advised parents to accompany children at bus stops for safety.

..."


Read more: Billings Gazette: FWP kills mountain lion in Missoula neighborhood
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Posted by Big Dave (+441) 4 years ago
So how does the mountain lion know when it has reached 17 and can then diversify its diet? Tail notches? Counting on its paws?

Wikipedia has failed me on this one.
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Posted by Oddjob (+130) 4 years ago
The mountain lion's prey of choice is California joggers, so that could explain the Missoula influx...
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Posted by Tim Wagoner (+732) 4 years ago
That is not the Mountain Lion that you need to be worried about right now. Just got this from a friend of mine today.

HI Guys, Just got back from coffee. I drove the dike on my way back to the shop. Just across the Tongue River at the back North side of the Fair Grounds on the Tongue RIver bank I saw a mountain lion. Rather large and looked at me for a few seconds before jumping over the berm towards the infield of the Fairgrounds. It took me a second to realize what I had just seen. Shocked to death. Each day I drive the dike to check on a small bunch of ten mule deer that feed and stay by the fairgrounds on the river bank. I have not seen then for about ten days.
Wondered why and now I know. Being hunted made them move to another area. Have been here all my life and never seen anything like this.
These cats are amoungst us and very close. Now I know why I am armed 24/7... God shows us these things to bring us into perspective. Montana is a great State. We have things that others only think of seeing. Seeing is believing.
A great sight.. Glad I got to see one even at one hundred and eighty yards on the edge of town.

Thought that you would like to know. If you live here keep an eye out of your own showing.

Miles
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